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Sorry for the late entry to this thread. <div><br></div><div>IMHO, $50K is exploitation, even for an average developer, but many companies do that and think it is OK. Personally, I'd love to hire engineers away from these companies. The companies I have recruited for pay far more than that, even for an intern. Alex is right, glassdoor.com offers a better view. </div><div><br></div><div>But salary is not the only thing. You have to work with a company that treats you well. If you are reading this thread and having a tough time finding a job, don't settle for a job just to have a job. Rather, improve your technical skills ( work on personal side projects, contribute to open source, attend the many meetups now available)... at the same time, improve your communications, interview, and puzzle solving skills... and get a darn good work ethics. You WILL find something decent with better pay. Companies are hunting for talents - and are willing to pay for them, at least mine are.</div><div><br></div><div>Let me know if you need help. If I don't respond quickly, it's because I will be pretty busy at PyCon. Talk to you next week.<br><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div><br></div><div>Grace Law</div><div>Sr Technical Recruiter @ Lolapps and Sauce Labs</div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; "><div><a href="mailto:gracelaw@mac.com">gracelaw@mac.com</a></div><div>650-823-7236 cell</div><div><a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/gracelaw1972">http://www.linkedin.com/in/gracelaw1972</a></div><div><br></div></span></div><div><br><div><br><div><div>On Feb 15, 2010, at 10:12 AM, Alan Westbrook wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">In 1998 entry level C++ devs were worth at least $45k in Santa Cruz</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">(an area notorious for paying less than the Bay Area).</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">So $50k seems quite low. Especially given that it's in San Francisco.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Alan</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 9:39 AM, Glen Jarvis <<a href="mailto:glen@glenjarvis.com">glen@glenjarvis.com</a>> wrote:</div> <blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Let's put it this way: how many people with real (not just titular) two</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">or more years of experience with Django would take $50K/year (keeping in</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">mind that real Django experience implies Python, SQL, HTML/CSS, and</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">JavaScript), given how competitive the current market is for those</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">skills? Speaking as someone who six months ago was on the searching side</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">and is now on the hiring side, I definitely think this range is on the</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">low end. But I would be interested in hearing contrary opinions from</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">people with experience in hiring.</div> </blockquote><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I definitely agree the low end of this scale is too low. When I said</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">"average" I wasn't looking at the median of that range (I was looking at the</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">higher end). The median is $70K which is $10K - $15K lower than the average</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I mentioned. Oh, and these numbers do take the current economy into</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">consideration.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I hadn't rechecked these stats, though, for six months..</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Cheers,</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Glen</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">_______________________________________________</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Baypiggies mailing list</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><a href="mailto:Baypiggies@python.org">Baypiggies@python.org</a></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><a href="http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies">http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies</a></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div> </blockquote><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">_______________________________________________</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Baypiggies mailing list</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><a href="mailto:Baypiggies@python.org">Baypiggies@python.org</a></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><a href="http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies">http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies</a></div> </blockquote></div><br></div></div></div><br><br><div> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><br></span></div></span></span></div></body></html>