<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><div>When and where is this presentation/talk gonna be held? I would love to attend.<br><br>Thanks<br>SG<br></div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><hr size="1"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Justin A Ryan <jryan@fastergreener.net><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Glen Jarvis <glen@glenjarvis.com><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> baypiggies@python.org<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thu, May 20, 2010 6:45:55 PM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Baypiggies] Introduction<br></font><br>
<div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 6:15 PM, Glen Jarvis <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:glen@glenjarvis.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:glen@glenjarvis.com">glen@glenjarvis.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
Justin,<div> Thanks for introducing yourself. It sounds like you are keen to give a presentation (which is awesome). Would you like to volunteer to give a preview of that presentation to the BayPIGgies group?</div><div>
<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Glen, I absolutely would, I love to advocate Zope whenever I can, and to educate folks. More people knowing Zope tech means more people possibly starting ventures that want the sort of expertise that I and many other dedicated folks have.<div>
<br></div><div>Django, Pylons, TurboGears, and many other frameworks in Python have great value, as many Zope-based projects other than Plone is, but there's just not enough information out there about what Zope really is compared to these other things.</div>
<div><br></div><div>We have a pile of Design Patterns, well tested, well implemented, and which scale quite well, as well as possibly having one of the oldest NoSQL solutions out there. It's worth knowing about. :)</div>
<div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div><br></div><div>J</div></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div></div><div> I'm not the organizer. However, I know Jim was looking for people to present more material. If you're interested, I betcha we could work something out.</div>
<div><br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>That would be great. It's pretty absurd that I don't know more local Python folks after living here for so long. I think my experience of working as a LUG interface from high school on has sort of alienated me from user groups of sorts and Python is one thing I don't expect to leave behind for a while, even if I got work doing something else.</div>
<div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div></div><div> I for one don't know much about the technical side of Zope or Plone. I've attended about two presentations on Plone total. </div>
<div><br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Plone is a very powerful platform, but its' relatively dominance in the Zope space may have led to some fragmentation, and issues with Plone reflect poorly on Zope. I've been thinking about an approach of walking folks from WSGI to Plone, through Zope, or at least from WSGI through Django, TG, and Pylons to Zope, and really addressing what is different.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Some of these other frameworks can provide traction where Zope doesn't always, but I have worked recently with a toolkit called Dolmen based on Zope which is really great. I'd love to see folks understanding where the line is really drawn. Whatever choice folks make, I think popularity has fed a long of Django, as it has Rails. Zope predates both greatly and has a ton of brilliant contributors around the globe.</div>
<div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div></div><div>Cheers,</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Glen</div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">
<div><div></div><div class="h5">On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 5:39 PM, Justin A Ryan <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:jryan@fastergreener.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:jryan@fastergreener.net">jryan@fastergreener.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
</div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div><div></div><div class="h5">Well, I didn't mean to introduce myself with a negative comment about a potential employer, but there seem to be a lot of troubles on CL with folks getting hired as contract-to-perm and not being paid at all after their code is deployed, emails drop, etc.. Obviously, we should ask for half up-front, but when that's not an option, and you've turned down a lot of gigs on that notion, eventually you just have to try something.<div>
<br></div><div>Anyway, I joined BayPIGGIES to know more people in the community I've lived in for most of the past 5-6 years, so that I wouldn't be limited in future career options to just whoever in a given week shows up for a "Python" search on CL and to meet new enthusiasts, because Python is rad. ;)</div>
<div><br></div><div>I've been a Python enthusiast since I joined Rackspace's CORE Team around 2002, my then-manager and now-friend Nicholas David Borko published a deal on our work which was in the Pythonology pamphlet at the first annual O'Reilly Open-Source convention, along with four others: Google, ILM, NASA, and NIST. To be fair, however, I owned some of the worst PHP code at Rackspace - as maintainer, not original author.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I lost a vote on Python vs. PHP at some point, esp after we tried to use Plone to implement a feature for CORE. I felt that Zope and Plone were the sort of techs I wanted to work with, so for that and many other reasons, I left and became a Plone / Zope developer, which I've done since 2004. In that time, in addition to developing a multi-tenant offering to hand this enterprise-class Web Content Management tech to hundreds of small businesses for around the cost of what it would cost one large business to deploy, I launched some pretty cool websites as the Tech Lead / Web Producer using Plone:</div>
<div><br></div><div><span> <a target="_blank" href="http://www.siggraph.org/">http://www.siggraph.org/</a></span></div><div><span> <a target="_blank" href="http://www.sigchi.org/">http://www.sigchi.org/</a> (prototyped and educated, they may have created a new site for the final launch)</span></div>
<div><span> <a target="_blank" href="http://www.acm.org/">http://www.acm.org/</a></span></div><div><span> <a target="_blank" href="http://montreal.siggraph.org/">http://montreal.siggraph.org/</a> (Helped to get LinguaPlone translation code into the ACM / SIGGRAPH config, so the site could be in French and English)</span></div>
<div><br></div><div>These days I'm in a FT search, but I've got some options, I'm not just here for that. I just thought I'd introduce myself..</div><div><br></div><div>I caught some chatter about the Silicon Valley Code Camp and I wonder if there is any history of, or anyone on the list planning to present on Zope technology here. Sounds like a lot of Django excitement, which is cool and all Python > Ruby IMO, unless you enjoy the alien dialect of Perl over Python's nearly-pseudocode syntax, which I just don't.</div>
<div><br></div><div>There are a ton of options for using Zope tech, some of which, like repoze.bfg, make Zope's default, if awesome, object storage optional, allowing to map views into a dictionary based on paths. I'm not a particular fan of this Rails-style approach, however, and I think that there are a lot of marketing problems for Zope.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I know that at least in the past, there have been some Plone and Zope folks in BayPIGGIES, so I didn't want to stomp anyone else's presentation, but I'm an experienced instructor and have gone too long without presenting on something. PyCon never seems to happen for me, but something CalTrain-able from SF for a weekend is probably an option.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I look forward to meeting some of you at future events!</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div><br></div><font color="#888888"><div>Justin</div>
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