Great stuff!!!<div><br></div><div>Also, this bumps me down to "where I know I belong." I'm now a 7.5ish -- not an 8.5ish. And, that's more realistic. I think everyone wants to be in the "10 category" just because it's the highest. But, if we don't make room for such things, we'll not have anywhere to grow.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I will be consolidating more and be using this as a personal rating scale -- and also, as a somewhat objective way to judge the skill-set for new developers.</div><div><br></div><div>And, frankly, how much simpler would it be to give a list like this to a recruiter, company and or developer. A developer won't be able to fake being in a higher category than he is. A company is generally pretty flexible in their role (i.e., we'll take a 4/5 for our junior position; a 6 for our regular positions; but the higher the better). 90% of the mismatches from recruiters could be cut down if we just handed this scale out and asked to self evaluate. (Or, I'm being naive?). </div>
<div><br></div><div>I love it. Keep it coming :)</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Glen</div><div><br></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 11:58 AM, Jake Alheid <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:shakefu@gmail.com" target="_blank">shakefu@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><ol><div class="im"><li><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Knows how to install and write "Hello World"</span><br>
</li></div><div class="im"><li><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Understands basic data structures: list, dict, tuple, set, etc.<br>
</span></li></div><li><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Understands basic classes and when to use them vs. a function/module of functions</span></li><li><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Understands list/dict/set comprehensions and why they're useful; Exception handling and raising; Understands how to use pip/virtualenvs</span></li>
<li><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Knows basic decorator usage and how to write them; how to use/write docstrings; understands dynamic lookups (getattr()); how to introspect objects in the interpreter with dir(), help(), etc.; how to write/run tests; Understands why to use virtualenvs</span></li>
<li><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Understands magic methods (__getattr__, __setattr__), class methods, static methods, protected (._foo) vs. private (.__foo) members; knows how to write/use generators; knows basic speedups (when to use .join() vs 'str' + 'foo')</span></li>
<li><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Understands how to create and distribute a pacakge with setup.py; Understands concurrency in Python and how to implement threading/green threads/callbacks; knows how the GIL affects different concurrency models; has a strong understanding of when to use different design patterns in Python; has a strong organizational understanding of large python projects<br>
</span></li><li><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Understands Meta classes and how to use/write them; understands that everything in Python is a dict; knows order of lookups for variables, class members; knows how to monkeypatch models, instances, sys.modules, .__dict__, etc., and why not to do it; how to use inspect module; Can read/modify C extensions; </span></li>
<li>Understands Python internals (dir, ast, compile modules, ); Can write new C extensions from scratch</li><li>Guido; Core contributor</li></ol></div><div>I'm sure there's a lot more that I'm forgetting. So much Python!</div>
</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div>--</div>Jake Alheid<br><div><a href="http://about.me/jake" target="_blank">http://about.me/jake</a></div></div><div><div class="h5">
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Glen Jarvis <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:glen@glenjarvis.com" target="_blank">glen@glenjarvis.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
This feedback has been invaluable. I encourage this thread to continue. I'm sitting behind the scenes and synthesizing all of this into a consistent/uniform document. When finished, I'll happily share.<div><br></div>
<div>I've not yet seen a conflict between the different perspectives.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Glen<div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 10:54 AM, J. R. Carroll <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jrcarroll@jrcresearch.net" target="_blank">jrcarroll@jrcresearch.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I don't know of any python scales per-se, but I have done what is known as psychometric work (as a psychometrician) for nearly a decade (which includes conducting job/task analyses, construction of a requirements blueprint (test blue print), and then systematically outlining these requirements into testable/observable/quantitative 'bullet points' that others can then use for hiring decisions or ...<div>
<br></div><div>Where am I going with this is that we have TONS of experience on this listserv (and I'm currently living in Boston and the Boston python group is huge as well) - I'd advocate about taking a more formal process in this development by leveraging all of our skills and designing something as a group/python-cult. If there is interests in putting together a list of KSAO's (knowledge skills abilities, and 'other') Im wondering if the PSF would be interested in somehow using it as well - seeing as there are a number of python forums that support job networking... </div>
<div><br></div><div>If there is sufficient interest, I'd love to help/volunteer. Then again, it might be overkill for what you (and others) are thinking about... but, fun to consider nonetheless!</div><div><br></div>
<div>-J</div><div><br></div><div><br clear="all"><div>----<br><img width="200" height="67"><br clear="all"><br>J. R. Carroll<div><div>Independent Researcher through Hurtz Labs</div>
<div>Research Methods, Test Development, and Statistics</div><div><a href="http://www.jrcresearch.net/" target="_blank">www.jrcresearch.net</a></div><div><a href="http://www.ontvp.com" target="_blank">www.ontvp.com</a></div>
<div>Cell: <a href="tel:%28650%29%20776-6613" value="+16507766613" target="_blank">(650) 776-6613</a></div><div>Email: <a href="mailto:jrcarroll@jrcresearch.net" target="_blank">jrcarroll@jrcresearch.net</a></div><div> <a href="mailto:jrcarroll@hurtzlab.com" target="_blank">jrcarroll@hurtzlab.com</a></div>
<div> <a href="mailto:jrc.csus@gmail.com" target="_blank">jrc.csus@gmail.com</a></div></div><div><a href="https://www.facebook.com/J.R.Car" target="_blank"><img></a><a href="https://twitter.com/jNammer" target="_blank"><img></a><a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/jrcarroll" target="_blank"><img></a></div>
<br></div><div><div>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Ryan Matthew Balfanz <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rbalfanz@gmail.com" target="_blank">rbalfanz@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">The only ordered skill chart that comes to mind is: <a href="http://www.unicyclist.org/cont/levels.cfm" target="_blank">http://www.unicyclist.org/cont/levels.cfm</a> :)</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote"><div><div>
On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Glen Jarvis <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:glen@glenjarvis.com" target="_blank">glen@glenjarvis.com</a>></span> wrote:<br></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><div>
<div dir="ltr"><div>Any time I find myself making something up, I think "Who else has done this?" Does anyone else know of a standardized skill chart for Python. It can be useful to explain someone's skill set.</div>
<div><br></div><div>For example, I just interviewed someone that would fall in about a 7 below. But, what one person judges as a 7 is not what someone else judges as a 7. For what it's wroth, I personally am rating myself between an 8 and a 9 on this scale... (yep on writing decorators; yep on concept; nope on really writing meta classes; yep on 'dis' library but nope on many of the internals).</div>
<div><br></div><div>And, frankly, that's probably a tad high (for me at least)... So, what's a better rating scale? Has anyone seen such a thing?</div><div><br></div><div>1 - Knows how to install and write "Hello World"</div>
<div>2 - Understands basic data structures: list, dict, tuple, set, etc.</div><div>3</div><div>4</div><div>5 - Understands list comprehensions and why they're useful; Understands generators and how to write one</div>
<div>6 - </div><div>7 - Knows basic decorator usages; Why it's useful (DRY); and has at least concept of how to write one</div><div>8 - Knows how to write decorators; Knows what Meta Classes are and how to write one</div>
<div>9 - Knows internals of Python such as "dis" library</div><div>10 - Guido; Core contributor </div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Glen</div><span><font color="#888888">
-- <br>
<p>"Pursue, keep up with, circle round and round your life as a dog does his master's chase. Do what you love. Know your own bone; gnaw at it, bury it, unearth it, and gnaw it still."</p>
<p>--Henry David Thoreau</p>
</font></span></div>
<br></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>
Baypiggies mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Baypiggies@python.org" target="_blank">Baypiggies@python.org</a><br>
To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:<br>
<a href="http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies" target="_blank">http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies</a><br></blockquote></div><br></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Baypiggies mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Baypiggies@python.org" target="_blank">Baypiggies@python.org</a><br>
To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:<br>
<a href="http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies" target="_blank">http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies</a><br></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>
<p>"Pursue, keep up with, circle round and round your life as a dog does his master's chase. Do what you love. Know your own bone; gnaw at it, bury it, unearth it, and gnaw it still."</p>
<p>--Henry David Thoreau</p>
</div></div></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Baypiggies mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Baypiggies@python.org" target="_blank">Baypiggies@python.org</a><br>
To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:<br>
<a href="http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies" target="_blank">http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies</a><br></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>
<p>"Pursue, keep up with, circle round and round your life as a dog does his master's chase. Do what you love. Know your own bone; gnaw at it, bury it, unearth it, and gnaw it still."</p>
<p>--Henry David Thoreau</p>
</div>