<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">I recently had to look for a job - the first time I had to go to interviews in over 20 years, so it was an as-new and kind of scary experience for me. I didn't do any full-days of work but I did spend some time pair-programming during the interview. That was actually a nice experience because I'm more comfortable writing code than I am talking about myself. I think being able to spend a day with potential coworkers would be awesome. A new job is like any new long-term relationship and spending a day with them before signing on is good for both parties. I don't see it as free labor (few people's first day at a new job would be net profitable for the employer) as much as it is a way for both sides to see if the relationship feels worth pursuing.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Eric</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 10:13 PM, Shannon -jj Behrens <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jjinux@gmail.com" target="_blank">jjinux@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><p dir="ltr">Expecting people to write real code for free in the promise of a job is indeed a horrible practice.</p>
<p dir="ltr">However, using real working conditions (collaboratively working with friendly co-workers) as a way of judging a candidate instead of forcing them to solve problems all day on a whiteboard seems like it could potentially be a better way of interviewing.</p><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">
<br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Fri, Oct 21, 2016, 8:20 PM seth f <<a href="mailto:sfseth@gmail.com" target="_blank">sfseth@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr" class="m_-5495417798077690354gmail_msg">I'm opposed to sloppy hiring practices and expectation of free labor.  I have no issue with an employer taking someone on with pay for short term to evaluate fit.    I apologize if I sounded disparaging in some overly broad way.   I have seen employers ask candidates (me for example) significant tasks and they wanted rights without compensation.   That's my only issue.  ~s</div><div class="gmail_extra m_-5495417798077690354gmail_msg"><br class="m_-5495417798077690354gmail_msg"><div class="gmail_quote m_-5495417798077690354gmail_msg">On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 8:12 PM, Hasan Diwan <span dir="ltr" class="m_-5495417798077690354gmail_msg"><<a href="mailto:hasan.diwan@gmail.com" class="m_-5495417798077690354gmail_msg" target="_blank">hasan.diwan@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br class="m_-5495417798077690354gmail_msg"><blockquote class="gmail_quote m_-5495417798077690354gmail_msg" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><p dir="ltr" class="m_-5495417798077690354gmail_msg">Seth,<br class="m_-5495417798077690354gmail_msg">
I'm not sure what you're opposed to -- I was compensated for my time by the company, in addition to the salary I commanded as part of the company. -- H</p><div class="m_-5495417798077690354gmail_msg"><div class="m_-5495417798077690354m_-2182313881292056509h5 m_-5495417798077690354gmail_msg"><br class="m_-5495417798077690354gmail_msg">
On 21 Oct 2016 8:09 p.m., "seth f" <<a href="mailto:sfseth@gmail.com" class="m_-5495417798077690354gmail_msg" target="_blank">sfseth@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class="m_-5495417798077690354gmail_msg">
><br class="m_-5495417798077690354gmail_msg">
> I don't think this practice is reasonable, nor do I think a "coding challenge" is reasonable if the hiring company wants to retain rights to the code that is produced.<br class="m_-5495417798077690354gmail_msg">
><br class="m_-5495417798077690354gmail_msg">
> If a hiring organization can't figure out whether or not they want you on the team from phone calls and in-person interviews, I say they're not working hard enough on figuring out how to interview candidates.  If I do work that shows what I can do, that's not suddenly their property.<br class="m_-5495417798077690354gmail_msg">
><br class="m_-5495417798077690354gmail_msg">
> If one assumes that there is a huge variety of technologies we might have experience with and what employers happen to have chosen, be it Docker, Xen, Vmware, Jenkins/Hudson, Salt, Ansible, Puppet, chef, CFengine, fabric, ... I haven't even gotten into databases or OS's yet...  how is this practice any different from treating a candidate pool as a freebie tutoring session?   I mean I'm happy to talk about this stuff, but if it occupies time where i'd otherwise be interviewing, and they're asking me to do it for free, it seems like a pretty clear exploit to me.<br class="m_-5495417798077690354gmail_msg">
><br class="m_-5495417798077690354gmail_msg">
> ~seth<br class="m_-5495417798077690354gmail_msg">
><br class="m_-5495417798077690354gmail_msg">
> On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 7:19 PM, Hasan Diwan <<a href="mailto:hasan.diwan@gmail.com" class="m_-5495417798077690354gmail_msg" target="_blank">hasan.diwan@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class="m_-5495417798077690354gmail_msg">
>><br class="m_-5495417798077690354gmail_msg">
>> I remember when I interviewed for a company, did a quiz, didn't get the job, but was compensated for my time. Not sure what the company was off the top of my head. -- H<br class="m_-5495417798077690354gmail_msg">
>><br class="m_-5495417798077690354gmail_msg">
>><br class="m_-5495417798077690354gmail_msg">
>> On 21 Oct 2016 2:56 p.m., "Anna Ravenscroft" <<a href="mailto:annaraven@gmail.com" class="m_-5495417798077690354gmail_msg" target="_blank">annaraven@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class="m_-5495417798077690354gmail_msg">
>>><br class="m_-5495417798077690354gmail_msg">
>>> So, this company I interviewed with wants to set up an 8 hour "trial day". Has anyone had one of these? What's your experience? And are they usually paid or unpaid? They haven't mentioned either way yet and I'm curious to get some your input before I go further with it.<br class="m_-5495417798077690354gmail_msg">
>>><br class="m_-5495417798077690354gmail_msg">
>>> Thanks in advance. Feel free to email me offlist.<br class="m_-5495417798077690354gmail_msg">
>>><br class="m_-5495417798077690354gmail_msg">
>>> -- <br class="m_-5495417798077690354gmail_msg">
>>> cordially,<br class="m_-5495417798077690354gmail_msg">
>>> Anna<br class="m_-5495417798077690354gmail_msg">
>>><br class="m_-5495417798077690354gmail_msg">
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