Soory to take so long, and hope it's not too far off topic. I did write something up on how our use of MoonEdit changed:<br><br><a href="http://www.humanized.com/weblog/2007/08/16/moonedit-redux/">http://www.humanized.com/weblog/2007/08/16/moonedit-redux/
</a><br><br>Enjoy!<br>-- Andrew<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 7/24/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Andrew Wilson</b> <<a href="mailto:andrew@humanized.com">andrew@humanized.com</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Luke:<br>
<br>You ask a very interesting question. So interesting that I'm working up a "<span id="st" name="st" class="st">MoonEdit</span>: Redux" article for our blog. I'll post a link here when I'm done.<br>
<span class="sg"><br>-- Andrew<br><br><br></span><div><div><span class="e" id="q_113faa1ca392e1b0_3"><span class="gmail_quote">
On 7/24/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Luke Opperman</b> <<a href="mailto:loppear@gmail.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">loppear@gmail.com
</a>> wrote:</span></span></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div><span class="e" id="q_113faa1ca392e1b0_5">
<span class="gmail_quote"></span><span class="gmail_quote">(Aside to Andrew/Atul: a year+ after that posting, do you still make a lot of use of collaborative editing for recording group talk and crystallizing it into more cohesive documents?)
<br><br></span>
<span class="gmail_quote">[Typos cleaned up, obvious asides removed.]</span><br><span class="gmail_quote"><br></span><span style="display: block; float: left; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">12:35 PM </span><span style="display: block; padding-left: 6em; text-indent: -1em;">
<span><span style="font-weight: bold;">me</span>: this post that Andrew just pointed out on the chipy list is a good summary/direction from our "how do we <b>talk</b> better" conversations back at textura. <a href="http://www.humanized.com/weblog/2006/04/19/moonedit_to_the_rescue/" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
http://www.humanized.com/weblog/2006/04/19/moonedit_to_the_rescue/</a></span></span><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr><td style="font-size: 1px; width: 100%;"><hr color="#cccccc" noshade="noshade" size="1">
</td><td style="font-size: 80%; color: rgb(170, 170, 170);" nowrap="nowrap">17 minutes</td></tr></tbody></table><div><span style="display: block; float: left; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">12:53 PM </span><span style="display: block; padding-left: 6em; text-indent: -1em;">
<span><span style="font-weight: bold;">Chad</span>:</span></span><span style="display: block; padding-left: 6em;"><span>I'd
have to try it. I like the idea of multiple inputs into a computer. But
shared editing seems, i don't know. I wonder if the key to moonedit is
the search and editing features or its collaborative nature or if the
concurrent editing is really the key. But good stuff.
</span></span></div><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr><td style="font-size: 1px; width: 100%;"><hr color="#cccccc" noshade="noshade" size="1"></td><td style="font-size: 80%; color: rgb(170, 170, 170);" nowrap="nowrap">
10 minutes</td></tr></tbody></table><div><span style="display: block; float: left; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">1:05 PM </span><span style="display: block; padding-left: 6em; text-indent: -1em;"><span><span style="font-weight: bold;">
me</span>:
i have a notion of unix "talk" with the separating line removed... our
chats here often take on that write-respond-rewrite flow, but without
the ability to actually go back and edit - whereas talk had the
opposite problem of showing revision clearly but not showing history.
see also, the use of ^H written out to represent explicit rethought.
</span></span></div><div><span style="display: block; float: left; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">1:09 PM </span><span style="display: block; padding-left: 6em;"><span>perhaps
novel to collabedit though: having a natural third role (filled by
anyone not actively conversing) of editing the overall movement of the
conversation by choosing and arranging highlights as they occur or are
recognized.
</span></span></div><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr><td style="font-size: 1px; width: 100%;"><hr color="#cccccc" noshade="noshade" size="1"></td><td style="font-size: 80%; color: rgb(170, 170, 170);" nowrap="nowrap">
7 minutes</td></tr></tbody></table><div><span style="display: block; float: left; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">1:16 PM </span><span style="display: block; padding-left: 6em; text-indent: -1em;"><span><span style="font-weight: bold;">
me</span>:
also clearly addresses the space i'm curious to fill in a lot of our
maillist / groups threaded discussions, where it's easy to lose sight
of the larger picture as we snip bits to reply to and follow
sub-thoughts. real-time wiki collaboration with the persistence /
time-delay that a smooth transition between chat and email provides.
</span></span></div><div><span style="display: block; float: left; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);"><br></span><span style="display: block; padding-left: 6em;"><span></span></span></div><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1">
<tbody>
<tr><td style="font-size: 1px; width: 100%;"><hr color="#cccccc" noshade="noshade" size="1"></td><td style="font-size: 80%; color: rgb(170, 170, 170);" nowrap="nowrap">39 minutes</td></tr></tbody></table><div><span style="display: block; float: left; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">
1:58 PM </span><span style="display: block; padding-left: 6em; text-indent: -1em;"><span><span style="font-weight: bold;">Chad</span>: third role seems interesting. we'll call it copy editor as that is the closest real world equivalent I think.
</span></span></div><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr><td style="font-size: 1px; width: 100%;"><hr color="#cccccc" noshade="noshade" size="1"></td><td style="font-size: 80%; color: rgb(170, 170, 170);" nowrap="nowrap">
12 minutes</td></tr></tbody></table><div><span style="display: block; float: left; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">2:11 PM </span><span style="display: block; padding-left: 6em; text-indent: -1em;"><span><span style="font-weight: bold;">
Chad</span>:
I agree about the need to transition things easier. chat -> email
-> wiki or just publishing chats or email threads like you can a
google notebook. A research file or something like when writing a paper
or book. You have notes. And interviews. And biblo info.
</span></span></div><div><span style="display: block; float: left; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);"> </span><span style="display: block; padding-left: 6em;"><span>Maybe people just need to hire more editors. =)</span></span>
</div>
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr><td style="font-size: 1px; width: 100%;"><hr color="#cccccc" noshade="noshade" size="1"></td><td style="font-size: 80%; color: rgb(170, 170, 170);" nowrap="nowrap">21 minutes
</td></tr></tbody></table><div><span style="display: block; float: left; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">2:32 PM </span><span style="display: block; padding-left: 6em; text-indent: -1em;"><span><span style="font-weight: bold;">
me</span>:
publishing chats/emails brings up the unavoidable question of how we'll
deal with permission - not all that naturally handled today with
single-author, only implicit broad strokes for multi-author.</span></span>
</div><div><span style="display: block; float: left; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">2:33 PM </span><span style="display: block; padding-left: 6em;"><span>say I want to publish this chat session as a response to the Chipy post that started it.
</span></span></div><div><span style="display: block; float: left; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">2:35 PM </span><span style="display: block; padding-left: 6em;"><span>or
more likely, want to lightly edit it first. what conventions or
encoding of intent improves on explicit requests-per-document, which
might work with a two person chat but presumably scales miserably.
</span></span></div><div><span style="display: block; float: left; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">2:36 PM </span><span style="display: block; padding-left: 6em;"><span>Creative Commons gives a good start at the language for talking about redistribution and derivative works etc
<br></span></span></div><div><span style="display: block; float: left; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">2:40 PM </span><span style="display: block; padding-left: 6em;"><span>so
the top-level shift is in realizing that all the various pieces that
make up my daily content-stream should be versioned, should be
publishable, should be permissionable. (and that part of my
content-stream is the recursively-meta-information about what I'm
reading, who I'm talking to, when I published something...)
</span></span></div><div><span style="display: block; float: left; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">2:43 PM </span><span style="display: block; padding-left: 6em; text-indent: -1em;"><span><span style="font-weight: bold;">Chad
</span>:</span></span><span style="display: block; padding-left: 6em;"><span>I
think the permissions might be deducible(sp) based on context.
Everything from the Chipy article is ok. But I'd like to block the
segue into personal or side notes as part of conversation.
</span></span></div><div><span style="display: block; float: left; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">2:45 PM </span><span style="display: block; padding-left: 6em;"><span>But
then again, maybe it is just a multi-layered chat. topic in black,
tangent in green. I personally like to leave the subject vague and
ambiguous but that's just for fun. Personal comments in red.
</span></span></div><div><span style="display: block; float: left; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">2:47 PM </span><span style="display: block; padding-left: 6em; text-indent: -1em;"><span><span style="font-weight: bold;">me</span>
:
right, that's the slight editing I'm talking about. and yeah, it could
probably be deducible with minimal input, coding (as you say, by
color), or perhaps if there were a side channel to create stronger
replying-to-linkages (contextual theme-tagging?)
</span></span></div><div><span style="display: block; float: left; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">2:48 PM </span><span style="display: block; padding-left: 6em;"><span>cf an extension of irc's "name:" prefixing to identify sub-threads.
</span></span></div><div><span style="display: block; float: left; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">2:49 PM </span><span style="display: block; padding-left: 6em; text-indent: -1em;"><span><span style="font-weight: bold;">Chad
</span>: yeah, I like the irc level with software support.</span></span></div><div><span style="display: block; float: left; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">2:51 PM </span><span style="display: block; padding-left: 6em; text-indent: -1em;">
<span><span style="font-weight: bold;">me</span>: alternatively, a lot
of this problem might go away if the context is more explicit in
collaborative editing, in that we'd be having the "brainstorm about
collaborative editing" thread in a document that started there, and
still have our personal chat clearly personal. another parallel, the
side-channel irc chats alongside a more formal presentation or talk.
</span></span></div><div><span style="display: block; float: left; color: rgb(136, 136, 136);">2:52 PM </span><span style="display: block; padding-left: 6em;"><span>ie, perhaps this is all a side-effect of the flaws of just-email or just-chat.
</span></span></div></span></div><span class="q">
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