[Edu-sig] The fate of raw_input() in Python 3000

[kirby urner]

On 9/14/06, John Zelle <john.zelle at wartburg.edu> wrote:

> introduction to algebra class. Or perhaps a better example, does a Calculus
> class have to also pay homage to linear algebra? Does a formal logic class
> need to be about calculus? Why isn't programming itself a legitimate entree
> into the "world of mathematics?"

I just wanted to break in here and say from my perspective it's about
killing as many birds with one stone as possible -- except I hate that
metaphor, because who wants to kill any birds?  Not me.  But you get
my point, it's about bandwidth.  What's a better metaphor?

As educators, we should be in a collaborative mindset.  If math
teachers are in overdrive to drill junior on the existence of
"functions" in some quasi-irrelevant twilight zone called "algebra"
then the *least* a Python intro course might do is *reinforce* this
archaic notion, and be articulate about functions in the Python
namespace (where they're "top level" fer gosh sakes -- not bit
players).

That "mouth" where we put default values, accept optional arguments,
keywords, is where the attention should be, as it's complicated, if
freeing.  raw_input takes the focus from parameter passing, and makes
I/O a side-effect of function execution -- or maybe the raw_input was
at the module level (even worse)?

There's a conspiracy to keep basic numeracy divided between math class
on the one hand, and CS-as-a-college-thing-only.  I'm far from
accusing you of being a member of this conspiracy (on the contrary,
your book is quite popular with the high school crowd), but I am it's
declared enemy, as I think CS needs a *much* bigger footprint in the
early grades, where recruiters for technology-literate jobs are
artificially kept at a disadvantage.

Let's level the playing field:  just knowing how to program doesn't
make you a professor of anything, let alone computer science.  CS is
about communicating a heritage.  And that heritage includes being
efficient with memory.  Design your curriculum intelligently -- as we
all should, and need to keep hammering at -- just to stay in the game.

Kirby