[Edu-sig] poking some dying logs...

[Daniel Ford]

I met Maria Litvin at SIGCSE 2008 where she gave a very introductory workshop on Python and math based on this book. She is the coach of the high school programming team at Phillips Academy. She introduced me to JavaBat.com and was trying to persuade Nick Parlante and Stuart Reges to translate JavaBat and "Building Java Programs A Back to Basics Approach" respectively into Python. She was very approachable and can be reached via http://www.andover.edu/Academics/Mathematics/Faculty/Pages/MathematicsFaculty.aspx. 

Daniel Ford
Linfield College

-----Original Message-----
From: edu-sig-bounces+ford=linfield.edu at python.org [mailto:edu-sig-bounces+ford=linfield.edu at python.org] On Behalf Of Edward Cherlin
Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 11:06 AM
To: kirby urner
Cc: edu-sig at python.org
Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] poking some dying logs...

On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:36 PM, kirby urner<kirby.urner at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'd like to make another plug for including this title on the edu-sig home page:
>
> http://www.skylit.com/mathandpython.html
>
> Ian thought it was too much a hybrid of CS and math, not an elegant
> amalgamation, though I don't have has remarks in front of me at the
> moment.  Steve was gonna get back to us.  Andre thought he might work
> it onto the page...

I like the concept but not the execution. The student doesn't find out
what properties of various data structures and mathematical objects
are fundamental. There is too much of the old style of telling
students what to learn, and neither explaining why nor allowing
students to discover. I find it annoying that the book gives complex
number examples, but shies away from actually using complex
arithmetic. Far more CS could be introduced at the level of the math
being used.

The book uses Python, but none of the very capable math software
available beyond graphing calculators. I prefer Ken Iverson's
approach, in which he taught how to write programs to do algebraic
manipulations and symbolic differentiation.

Does anybody know these authors? Can we engage them in a process to
improve what they have done?

                          Maria Litvin
Phillips Academy, Andover, Massachusetts
                          Gary Litvin
                    Skylight Software, Inc.


> That was all months ago by now, so it make sense to raise the issue
> again, as the title does break new ground in some ways, has claim to
> being a math teaching book, yet uses a computer language (one most of
> us know).
>
> 'Concrete Mathematics' and 'The Art of Computer Programming' are both
> math books of course, amenable to a "through programming" approach.
> Jsoftware folks implemented the former in J, whereas the latter is in
> MMX already.
>
> Another hot button issue in Portland these days is whether families
> have the right to demand a PDF version of any assigned textbook,
> versus a hardcopy edition.  We have lots of tree huggers around here,
> worried about "green" and unsustainability.  To quote one of my
> colleagues (from her blog):
>
> "We need the text book companies to print thousands of copies of new
> textbooks every year, not so the authors can make money, though they
> make a little, but so the companies can make money... Do some central
> planning, and if the government can't do that without going through
> corporations, then it is time to [do it ourselves]".
>
> Anyway, just wanted to re-raise that as well.
>
> I mostly do my computer / technical reading on Safari, have no problem
> with recycling already printed books, have no problem with small press
> runs.  But I can see where truck loads of spanking new 400 page math
> books, hot off the press, none containing any computer programming to
> speak of, let alone Mites, Sytes or Kites (honeycomb stuff, important
> to gnu-bees), would provoke a crisis in conscience for our more
> ethical.
>
> This is the kind of thing 15 year olds talk about.  They're suspicious
> of adults who can't follow their logic (about saving trees),
> undermines adult authority to not have a response.  So do we all favor
> an "opt out" option for hard copy textbooks?  Say aye?  Say nay?
>
> Kirby
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>



-- 
Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name
And Children are my nation.
The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination.
http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin)
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