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<blockquote cite="mid0I5Y000T4MY38E@mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
Starting with rhetorical platitudes about kids and education with which no
one could find disagreement - but never delivering anything in the least
satisfying to demonstrate some satisfying and explicit connection between
those platitudes and his own concrete ideas on the use of computers in
education.
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<big>Do you use a graphical interface ? (with icons, windows,
menus...). <br>
According to computer history Alan Kay had a big role in that and it
was designed as an educational program for kids.<br>
If you think it's not concrete enough for you, please could you stop
to use it and avoid any educationnal project with Tkinter or WxPython
for example (by the way please avoid to use Ethernet, Laser Printer,
Objects Programming concepts since it seems there are some bits of Mr
Kay there too).<br>
<br>
Did you try E-Toys or scratch with kids ?<br>
I did and I can tell you it's far from perfect but it seems quite
concrete to me and I reserve my judgment when I will see how it evolves.<br>
<br>
</big><br>
<blockquote cite="mid0I5Y000T4MY38E@mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Perhaps it would be better to base your admiration of Mr. Kay's role in
education more on what he can demonstrate he is actually achieving, rather
than on what he writes he is trying to achieve.
</pre>
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<big>Did you try Croquet ?<br>
I'll make a confidence to you, I haven't had time to try it and
that's why I won't judge it. <br>
I don't know yet if it's interesting but for the reasons I explained
before I see a strong potential there.<br>
Will this potential transform into kinetic energy ? I prefer to say
that I don't know than to criticize.<br>
<br>
</big><big>I began this thread because I wanted to know if someone knew
about
the Python "possible" side of it (since it's the language I use the
most).<br>
I didn't receive any answer to that but your emotional reaction to Kay
surprised me.<br>
If you put your beliefs aside and google a little you'll see that I'm
very far away to "admire" Mr Kay but I confess I'm curious.<br>
In France and Europe it's not considered as a bad thing. We believe
the understanding of differents cultures and languages is enriching. <br>
We believe everything is not black and white or boolean and we would
never say "if you're not with us" then you belong to "the axis of evil".<br>
</big><big>Contrary to your previous comment, the "hard-fun" concept
comes from
Seymoure Papert (not Alan Kay). Should we add him in the axis of evil
too ? <br>
</big><big><br>
Concerning the potential role of computer in education I probably have
a very different experience than you and it probably doesn't help for
our mutual understanding.<br>
Google told me you began programming at 48. I begun at 10 when I was in
huge scholar difficulties (thank's ZX81). The potential influence of
computers in education seems quite concrete to me even if I wouldn't
dare to generalize my case (kids learn often in different ways).<br>
<br>
I think it's time to finish this thread here since I fail to
understand some of your arguments. We both loose our time and spam
this list. <br>
I live you the last word, please feel free to critic and spread as
much "hatred" as you wish, enjoy.<br>
<br>
Thank's anyway for the time you spend to answer this thread.<br>
I wish you all the best for your educationnal projects.<br>
<br>
francois<br>
<br>
<br>
</big>
<blockquote cite="mid0I5Y000T4MY38E@mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Art
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