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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=147015622-19122007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>I have to concur with <FONT face=Tahoma
color=#000000>François' request about examples in plain text. Our
corporate firewall means I can't see these while at
work.</FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
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<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> users-bounces@lists.ironpython.com
[mailto:users-bounces@lists.ironpython.com] <B>On Behalf Of </B>François
Schnell<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, 20 December 2007 2:14 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
users@lists.ironpython.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> [IronPython] Newbie,
feedback/question<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Hello guys,<BR><BR>I'm a 'regular user' of <SPAN
class=misspell>CPython</SPAN>/<SPAN class=misspell>WxPython</SPAN>/<SPAN
class=misspell>SPE</SPAN>_<SPAN class=misspell>IDE</SPAN> and new to <SPAN
class=misspell>IronPython</SPAN>/<SPAN class=misspell>Silverlight</SPAN> (also
learning Flex/Air).<BR><BR>What convinced me to also take some time with <SPAN
class=misspell>IronPython</SPAN>/.Net is the free "Iron Python Studio" and
Microsoft move with the Visual Studio Shell: <BR><A
href="http://www.regdeveloper.co.uk/2007/06/09/vs_shell_eclipse/">http://www.regdeveloper.co.uk/2007/06/09/vs_shell_eclipse/</A>
<BR><BR>Even if <SPAN class=misspell>WxPython</SPAN> API is fine, it's been a
long time I've been hoping for a free "Visual Studio Python Express"-like, with
a form designer to quickly develop <SPAN class=misspell>GUIs</SPAN> in
particular.<BR><BR>My guess is that with this free (as in beer) <SPAN
class=misspell>IDE</SPAN>, <SPAN class=misspell>IPY</SPAN> has the potential to
attract much more users especially students and hobbyists.<BR><BR>I just hope
that Iron Python Studio is not just a proof of concept (to show what can be done
with the VS Isolated Shell) and that it will be maintained and enhanced.<BR>I
say that because:<BR>- I didn't find <SPAN class=misspell></SPAN>any link from
Iron Python homepage to the Iron Python Studio<BR>- it's been 5 days any
developer/coordinator of Iron Python Studio have replied in their discussions
section? (unusual for a project just released)<BR><BR>Anyway, just a quick
feedback from my newbie eye on Iron Python :)<BR><BR>* Concerning Tutorials
(.html)<BR><BR>The tutorial in the download and the samples (link bellow) looks
like a great place to start and as a quick reference for examples:<BR><A
href="http://www.codeplex.com/IronPython/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Samples&">http://www.codeplex.com/IronPython/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Samples&</A><SPAN
class=misspell> referringTitle</SPAN>=Home<BR><BR>Unfortunately they are not
visible to search-engines, hidden behind save-as, <SPAN
class=misspell>unizip</SPAN>, double-clicks(many times).<BR>I can understand the
need to zip everything on a projects hosting pate-form but I think the .html(s)
pages deserve to be directly visible,<BR>Is it possible? <BR>(if help is needed
to format them for a wiki for example I could help)<BR><BR>Also I wonder if a
more permissive licence could be used to encourage the use of this content (as
opposed to the actual 90 years all-rights-reserved US copyright). For example I
might be interested to translate a part in French (my mother tongue) and maybe
to extend some examples. I've seen the <SPAN class=misspell>IP</SPAN>
cookbook is under CC-BY (I think it's a great licence for docs) but if it is too
much, a CC licence without the Non-Derivative clause would already be useful
(for example both MIT Open Course Ware and Open Yale Courses use the CC-BY-NC-SA
licence).<BR><BR>* Concerning Lists / Discussion<BR><BR>I think lists are great
for <SPAN class=misspell>dev</SPAN>. teams but "forums/discussions"-like are
more used by 'learners', especially younger people like students (I guess the
"edit" link is reassuring).<BR>Anyway Iron Python Studio project has the
Discussion open. I think beginners will use this place also for IronPython
questions. <BR>I don't now what is the plan about that but I think it would be
nice to keep an eye on this place to help beginners to Iron Python.<BR><BR>EDIT:
As I was writing this (and waiting for a moderator to let me in the list) a post
has been sent in the IronPythonStudio discussion on this:<BR><A
href="http://www.codeplex.com/IronPythonStudio/Thread/View.aspx?ThreadId=19414">http://www.codeplex.com/IronPythonStudio/Thread/View.aspx?ThreadId=19414</A><BR>I'm
not sure it's the best solution but anyway thanks to Mircosoft for its interest
in Python and to the people behind Iron Python :)
<BR><BR>francois<BR><BR>
<P> </P>
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