From john at wa9als.com  Thu Dec  1 01:34:35 2005
From: john at wa9als.com (John Fleming)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 19:34:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] one mailman, multiple server names
References: <438E24B7.7060606@LPBroadband.Net>
Message-ID: <002a01c5f60f$02c8e5f0$6901a8c0@wa9als>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jon D. Slater" <Jon.Slater at LPBroadband.Net>
To: <Mailman-Users at python.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 5:16 PM
Subject: [Mailman-Users] one mailman, multiple server names


> Hi,
>
> My server is set up to host 2 different domain names.  (For argument
> I'll call them "First.Com" and "Second.Com").
>
> When I set up mailman only "First.Com" existed, so it was easy to create
> lists:
>     o  Members at First.Com
>     o  Support at First.Com
>     o  Board at First.Com
>
> Now I need to create a new mailing for the second domain name.  Like:
>     o  Members at Second.Com
>
> But I need Members at First.Com to be a completely different list than
> Members at Second.Com.
>
> Is this even possible?  (If necessary I can make the list names unique
> [i.e. Members at First.Com and Everyone at Second.Com].)
>
> Thanks!
> ------------------------------------------------------


See http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=all#4.36.  This simple 
option would require different listnames.  Other solutions that would let 
you have the same listname at different virtual hosts are more complicated. 
I'm sure others here will have more comments.



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec  1 04:14:27 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 19:14:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribe/Unsubscribe remotely by admin
In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20051130115128.06dbed30@gitchee.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005113019142709689ef93863@msapiro>

Rae wrote:

>Okay, so the better way would be not to use the adminpasswd in the 
>command but a userpasswd instead.


But this results in a confirmation email to the user which the OP was
trying to avoid.


>I tried to run the command as designated in the link below but it 
>does not work as expected. I received this error:
>
>Bug in Mailman version 2.1.6
>We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing 
>of traceback and other system information has been explicitly 
>inhibited, but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman 
>error logs.


Did you look in Mailman's 'error' log for the error and traceback? What
were they?

And did you read the whole thread or did you just try the one
UNsubscribe command in the first post of the thread. Most likely the
error is a NotAMemberError: exception that resulted from an attempt to
unsubscribe a non-member. This error would not normally occur because
that particular 'post' comes from a member's options page, so the
address would be a member's address.


>At 11:07 AM 11/30/2005, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>This doesn't do what you want. What it does do (assuming
>>subscribe_policy includes confirm) is enter a pending subscription in
>>digest/nodigest mode for someemail at somedomain.com with initial user
>>password of adminpasswd and sends a confirmation email to
>>someemail at somedomain.com.
>>
>>See below for more info.
>>
>>It is not possible by email. There are comand line tools
>>bin/add_members and bin/remove_members that can do what you want if
>>you can run them from your automated process, or you can 'post' to the
>>admin mass (un)subscribe function as discussed in the archives of this
>>list, e.g., the thread beginning at
>><http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-December/041209.html>.
>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Dec  1 11:33:25 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 11:33:25 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught bounce notifications
In-Reply-To: <1133361248.2582.111.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
References: <1133361248.2582.111.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
Message-ID: <p06200700bfb48140096f@[192.168.1.102]>

At 9:34 AM -0500 2005-11-30, Darren G Pifer wrote:

>       Also, is there a way to avoid user's replying to
>  listname-bounce at list.odu.edu? We would, of course, prefer that
>  subscribers to reply to listname at list.odu.edu but the bounce address is
>  the one that mailman uses when sending the mail out.

	The user can do whatever they want, or whatever their software 
allows them to do.  It sounds like some misconfigured software is 
setting them up to reply to listname-bounce instead of listname, but 
short of setting a reply-to header (see 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.048.htp> 
for why this is strongly discouraged), I don't think you're going to 
be able to "fix" a user problem by making changes on the server.


	In short, if a patient goes to the doctor and complains that it 
hurts when they do a certain thing in a certain way, it is not at all 
unusual for the doctor to inform them to stop doing that thing in 
that way.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec  1 17:46:46 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 08:46:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught bounce notifications
In-Reply-To: <p06200700bfb48140096f@[192.168.1.102]>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512010846460546f7653af0@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>At 9:34 AM -0500 2005-11-30, Darren G Pifer wrote:
>
>>       Also, is there a way to avoid user's replying to
>>  listname-bounce at list.odu.edu? We would, of course, prefer that
>>  subscribers to reply to listname at list.odu.edu but the bounce address is
>>  the one that mailman uses when sending the mail out.
>
>	The user can do whatever they want, or whatever their software 
>allows them to do.  It sounds like some misconfigured software is 
>setting them up to reply to listname-bounce instead of listname, but 
>short of setting a reply-to header (see 
><http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.048.htp> 
>for why this is strongly discouraged), I don't think you're going to 
>be able to "fix" a user problem by making changes on the server.

Also see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec  1 18:25:23 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 09:25:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught bounce notifications
In-Reply-To: <1133361248.2582.111.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402005120109252305007895376b@msapiro>

Darren G Pifer wrote:
>
>     I have seen on this mailing list a few posts on the thread of
>"Uncaught bounce notifications" but have not found the answer I need.
>One of our user's received one of these notifications and the list owner
>wants to know why the user received it. She believed that if 
>"Should Mailman send you, the list owner, any bounce messages that
>failed to be detected by the bounce processor?" is set to Yes in the
>Bounce Processing Section, the list owner should only get the bounces
>and not the sender.


This is correct.


>If my understanding is correct, and please tell me
>if I am wrong, sendmail (our MTA) will send a bounce notification to the
>sender regardless of this mailman setting?


What is the sender (original poster) receiving, and why do you think it
is coming from your sendmail and not, for example, the bouncing
recipient's MTA?


When Mailman receives a bounce at listname-bounces at ... and the bounce
is 'unrecognized' and listname's
bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner attribute is set to Yes,
Mailman will send an "Uncaught bounce notification" to the owner(s)
(but not the moderator(s)) of the listname list. This is the only way
Mailman sends an "Uncaught bounce notification", and the only
addresses it is sent to.

This message has specific charastics as follows:

It is From: sitelist-bounces at grizz.org
    'sitelist' is normally 'mailman'

It is To: listname-owner at ...

It has Subject: Uncaught bounce notification

It is multipart/mixed with the text/plain body -
 The attached message was received as a bounce, but either the bounce
 format was not recognized, or no member addresses could be extracted
 from it.  This mailing list has been configured to send all
 unrecognized bounce messages to the list administrator(s).

 For more information see:
 http://www.example.com/mailman/admin/listname/bounce

It has a message/rfc822 attachment which contains the unrecognized
bounce message as received by Mailman.

If a user other than an owner of the list received such a message, it
was most likely relayed to that user outside of Mailman. You need to
analyze the Received: headers and other information in the message
received by the unintended recipient to see how it got there.

Note that is is not at all unusual for users to receive _other_ bounce
messages. There are apparently many non-compliant MTAs in use that
will return a bounced post to the poster rather than to the
listname-bounces address, but these messages will not have the
charastics of an "Uncaught bounce notification".

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dpifer at odu.edu  Thu Dec  1 18:57:07 2005
From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer)
Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 12:57:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught bounce notifications
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005120109252305007895376b@msapiro>
References: <PC17402005120109252305007895376b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1133459826.2582.195.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>

Hello,

On Thu, 2005-12-01 at 12:25, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Darren G Pifer wrote:

> 
> What is the sender (original poster) receiving, and why do you think it
> is coming from your sendmail and not, for example, the bouncing
> recipient's MTA?

Here is the message, as forwarded to me by the list owner on behalf of
the sender. I have changed the listname with LIST. This could be the
case where the sender was using a MS Outlook client, as pointed out by
the FAQ. If more information is needed, I will have to get the sender to
provide the full headers of the message.

                        mailman-bounces at l 
                          ist.odu.edu 
                                                                       
To 
                          11/27/2005 11:30 LIST-owner at list.odu.edu 
                          PM cc 
                                                                                                                                      Subject 
                                                                       
Uncaught bounce notification 

The attached message was received as a bounce, but either the bounce
format was not recognized, or no member addresses could be extracted
from it. This mailing list has been configured to send all
unrecognized bounce messages to the list administrator(s).

For more information see: http://list.odu.edu/admin/LIST/bounce

----- Message from ... <user at odu.edu> on Sun, 27 Nov 2005
23:30:28 -0500 -----
      
                To: LIST-bounces at list.odu.edu 
      
      Subject: Re: [LIST] We need new officers for the spring semester! 
                                                                                                                                                    
[BODY REMOVED]

Thanks,

> ===== Original Message =====
> Date: Nov 25, 2005 12:30 PM
> From: LIST at odu.edu
> To: LIST at list.odu.edu
> Cc:
> Subject: Re: [LIST] We need new officers for the spring semester!
>




From xma at uclink.berkeley.edu  Thu Dec  1 19:08:54 2005
From: xma at uclink.berkeley.edu (Xiaoyan Ma)
Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 10:08:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] remove_members --fromall -f
Message-ID: <web-13647641@calmail-be2.berkeley.edu>

We need to clean up list subscripbers each semester when students graduate. I am having trouble 
with

remove_members -h shows that:
  --file=file
     -f file
         Remove member addresses found in the given file.  If file is
         `-', read stdin.

     --all
     -a
         Remove all members of the mailing list.
         (mutually exclusive with --fromall)

     --fromall
         Removes the given addresses from all the lists on this system
         regardless of virtual domains if you have any.  This option cannot be
         used -a/--all.  Also, you should not specify a listname when using
         this option.

But I am having trouble with

../bin/remove_members --fromall -f /tmp/class04

I found a patch by Marc Merlin back in 2001 which adds a special list name: _alllists_

I was wondering:

1. With Mailman 2.1.5, can I run remove_members --fromall with -f (file containing subscriber 
email addresses)? --  I know we can get around using shell script to feed one address at a time.

2. Are patches normally included  into the newer version of Mailman?

Thanks.
Xiaoyan







From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec  1 19:53:42 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 10:53:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught bounce notifications
In-Reply-To: <1133459826.2582.195.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402005120110534208751bda52f5@msapiro>

Darren G Pifer wrote:
>
>Here is the message, as forwarded to me by the list owner on behalf of
>the sender. I have changed the listname with LIST. This could be the
>case where the sender was using a MS Outlook client, as pointed out by
>the FAQ. If more information is needed, I will have to get the sender to
>provide the full headers of the message.
>
>                        mailman-bounces at l 
>                          ist.odu.edu 
>                                                                       
>To 
>                          11/27/2005 11:30 LIST-owner at list.odu.edu 
>                          PM cc 
>                                                                                                                                      Subject 
>                                                                       
>Uncaught bounce notification 
>
>The attached message was received as a bounce, but either the bounce
>format was not recognized, or no member addresses could be extracted
>from it. This mailing list has been configured to send all
>unrecognized bounce messages to the list administrator(s).
>
>For more information see: http://list.odu.edu/admin/LIST/bounce
>
>----- Message from ... <user at odu.edu> on Sun, 27 Nov 2005
>23:30:28 -0500 -----
>      
>                To: LIST-bounces at list.odu.edu 
>      
>      Subject: Re: [LIST] We need new officers for the spring semester! 
>                                                                                                                                                    
>[BODY REMOVED]
>
>Thanks,
>
>> ===== Original Message =====
>> Date: Nov 25, 2005 12:30 PM
>> From: LIST at odu.edu
>> To: LIST at list.odu.edu
>> Cc:
>> Subject: Re: [LIST] We need new officers for the spring semester!
>>



Although some of the header info is garbled, possibly by a copy and
paste operation, this is clearly a copy of an "Uncaught bounce
notification". The original "bounce" appears to be a post erroneously
sent to LIST-bounces at ... instead of LIST at ...

My question now, is are we sure there isn't some miscommunication
between you, the list owner and the original user? Do we even really
know that the original user (or anyone other than the list owner)
actually received this specific message?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec  1 20:15:35 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 11:15:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] remove_members --fromall -f
In-Reply-To: <web-13647641@calmail-be2.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402005120111153502345ea066ad@msapiro>

Xiaoyan Ma wrote:
>
>But I am having trouble with
>
>../bin/remove_members --fromall -f /tmp/class04


What specific trouble?


>I found a patch by Marc Merlin back in 2001 which adds a special list name: _alllists_


Where did you find it? Are you talking about patch number 413257 in the
tracker at
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=413257&group_id=103&atid=300103>?


>I was wondering:
>
>1. With Mailman 2.1.5, can I run remove_members --fromall with -f (file containing subscriber 
>email addresses)? --  I know we can get around using shell script to feed one address at a time.


Yes, you should be able to do that. It should produce one line of
output like

"User `%(addr)s' removed from list: %(listname)s."

for each address removed from each list.


>2. Are patches normally included  into the newer version of Mailman?


Some are and some aren't. If the patch is in the tracker with status
'closed' and resolution 'accepted', then most likely, yes. Also see
the comments in the patch's entry in the tracker. E.g., the one in the
tracker entry for 413257 that says

  Date: 2002-05-01 13:57
  Sender: marcmerlin
  Logged In: YES 
  user_id=6500

  This was rewritten and integrated in mailman 2.1 cvs

If the patch isn't in the tracker, it could still be incorporated, but
it's much less likely.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From xma at uclink.berkeley.edu  Thu Dec  1 21:22:27 2005
From: xma at uclink.berkeley.edu (Xiaoyan Ma)
Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 12:22:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] remove_members --fromall -f
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005120111153502345ea066ad@msapiro>
References: <PC17402005120111153502345ea066ad@msapiro>
Message-ID: <web-13662416@calmail-be2.berkeley.edu>

On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 11:15:35 -0800
  Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Xiaoyan Ma wrote:
>>
>>But I am having trouble with
>>
>>../bin/remove_members --fromall -f /tmp/class04
> 
> 
> What specific trouble?
> 
I can feed one address at a time:
[xma at localhost bin]$ sudo ./remove_members --fromall "test at test.com"
User `test at test.com' removed from list: testlist.
User `test at test.com' removed from list: testlista.

but when running with -f I was warning with Usage options to remove members from a list:

[xma at localhost bin]$ sudo ./remove_members --fromall -f /home/xma/removetest.txt
Remove members from a list.

Usage:
     remove_members [options] [listname] [addr1 ...]

Options:

...

Or
[xma at localhost bin]$ sudo ./remove_members -f /home/xma/removetest.txt --fromall
Remove members from a list.

Usage:
     remove_members [options] [listname] [addr1 ...]

Options:
.....

Here is the content of the removetest.txt:

testing at Berkeley.edu
xmatest at yahoo.com
test at test.com

I have also tried:

"testing at Berkeley.edu"
"xmatest at yahoo.com"
"test at test.com"

Thanks.
Xiaoyan


From sythos at sythos.net  Thu Dec  1 21:33:32 2005
From: sythos at sythos.net (Sythos)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 21:33:32 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] remove_members --fromall -f
In-Reply-To: <web-13662416@calmail-be2.berkeley.edu>
References: <PC17402005120111153502345ea066ad@msapiro>
	<web-13662416@calmail-be2.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <20051201213332.4d4f48c3.sythos@sythos.net>

Il Thu, 01 Dec 2005 12:22:27 -0800
"Xiaoyan Ma" <xma at uclink.berkeley.edu> scrisse:

> [xma at localhost bin]$ sudo ./remove_members --fromall
> -f /home/xma/removetest.txt Remove members from a list.
> 
> Usage:
>      remove_members [options] [listname] [addr1 ...]

try:

cat /home/xma/removetest.txt | ./remove_members --fromall -f


-- 
Sythos - http://www.sythos.net

  ()  ASCII Ribbon Campaign - against html/rtf/vCard in mail
  /\                        - against M$ attachments

Erlug, cultura classica, comodamente a casa vostra.
	-- Davide Alberani


From xma at uclink.berkeley.edu  Thu Dec  1 21:48:21 2005
From: xma at uclink.berkeley.edu (Xiaoyan Ma)
Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 12:48:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] remove_members --fromall -f
In-Reply-To: <20051201213332.4d4f48c3.sythos@sythos.net>
References: <PC17402005120111153502345ea066ad@msapiro>
	<web-13662416@calmail-be2.berkeley.edu>
	<20051201213332.4d4f48c3.sythos@sythos.net>
Message-ID: <web-13664940@calmail-be2.berkeley.edu>

On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 21:33:32 +0100
  Sythos <sythos at sythos.net> wrote:
> Il Thu, 01 Dec 2005 12:22:27 -0800
> "Xiaoyan Ma" <xma at uclink.berkeley.edu> scrisse:
> 
>> [xma at localhost bin]$ sudo ./remove_members --fromall
>> -f /home/xma/removetest.txt Remove members from a list.
>> 
>> Usage:
>>      remove_members [options] [listname] [addr1 ...]
> 
> try:
> 
> cat /home/xma/removetest.txt | ./remove_members --fromall -f
> 
> 
> -- 

Got the same error:


[root at localhost bin]# cat /home/xma/removetest.txt
testing at Berkeley.edu
xmatest at yahoo.com
test at test.coM

[root at localhost bin]# cat /home/xma/removetest.txt |/var/mailman/bin/remove_members --fromall -f
Remove members from a list.

Usage:
     remove_members [options] [listname] [addr1 ...]

Options:

...

Thanks.
Xiaoyan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec  1 22:35:47 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 13:35:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] remove_members --fromall -f
In-Reply-To: <web-13664940@calmail-be2.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512011335470062aff92e8d@msapiro>

Xiaoyan Ma wrote:

>On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 21:33:32 +0100
>  Sythos <sythos at sythos.net> wrote:
>> Il Thu, 01 Dec 2005 12:22:27 -0800
>> "Xiaoyan Ma" <xma at uclink.berkeley.edu> scrisse:
>> 
>>> [xma at localhost bin]$ sudo ./remove_members --fromall
>>> -f /home/xma/removetest.txt Remove members from a list.
>>> 
>>> Usage:
>>>      remove_members [options] [listname] [addr1 ...]
>> 
>> try:
>> 
>> cat /home/xma/removetest.txt | ./remove_members --fromall -f

The above would have to be

cat /home/xma/removetest.txt | ./remove_members --fromall -f -

But that won't work either because there is a bug in remove_members. It
insists on having at least one argument in addition to the options.
Clearly this should not be required in the case where --fromall and
-f|--file are both specified.

I'll fix this for 2.1.7. In the mean time, you can work around this
with the command

sudo ./remove_members -f /home/xma/removetest.txt --fromall dummy_arg

or

sudo ./remove_members --fromall -f /home/xma/removetest.txt dummy_arg

where dummy_arg can be anything. And BTW, don't but quotes around the
addresses in the file.




Or you can test the following patch for me :-)

--- f:/test_mailman-2.1.6/bin/remove_members    2003-03-31 12:07:56
+++ f:/test-mailman/bin/remove_members  2005-12-01 13:31:23
@@ -1,6 +1,6 @@
 #! /usr/bin/python
 #
-# Copyright (C) 1998-2003 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc.
+# Copyright (C) 1998-2005 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc.
 #
 # This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
 # modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
@@ -110,9 +110,6 @@
     except getopt.error, msg:
         usage(1, msg)

-    if len(args) < 1:
-        usage(1)
-
     filename = None
     all = False
     alllists = False
@@ -134,6 +131,9 @@
         elif opt in ('-N', '--noadminack'):
             admin_notif = False

+    if len(args) < 1 and not (filename and alllists):
+        usage(1)
+
     # You probably don't want to delete all the users of all the lists
-- Marc
     if all and alllists:
        usage(1)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kig at telekom.ru  Thu Dec  1 22:37:01 2005
From: kig at telekom.ru (=?Windows-1251?B?yu7i4Ovl7eruIMji4O0=?=)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 00:37:01 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blocking list on the server
Message-ID: <949184371.20051202003701@telekom.ru>

Is there a way to block list for a period of time certain maillist on
the server? I mean, to block List Owners from using list.



  

-- 
? ?????????,
 ????????? ????, ?????-???????           mailto:kig at telekom.ru



From xma at uclink.berkeley.edu  Thu Dec  1 23:35:00 2005
From: xma at uclink.berkeley.edu (Xiaoyan Ma)
Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 14:35:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] remove_members --fromall -f
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200512011335470062aff92e8d@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200512011335470062aff92e8d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <web-14000442@calmail-be1.berkeley.edu>

Mark:

The dummy argument worked!!
[root at localhost bin]# ./remove_members --fromall -f /home/xma/removetest.txt dummy
User `testing at Berkeley.edu' removed from list: testlista.
User `xmatest at yahoo.com' removed from list: testlista.
User `test at test.coM' removed from list: testlista.

Thank you.

And I would love to help testing out the patch. But I got the follow error

patching file remove_members
Hunk #2 FAILED at 110.
Hunk #3 succeeded at 97 with fuzz 2 (offset -34 lines).
1 out of 3 hunks FAILED -- saving rejects to file remove_members.rej



  reject file:

***************
*** 110,118 ****
       except getopt.error, msg:
           usage(1, msg)

-  if len(args) < 1:
-  usage(1)
-
       filename = None
       all = False
       alllists = False
--- 110,115 ----
       except getopt.error, msg:
           usage(1, msg)

       filename = None
       all = False
       alllists = False


Maybe I did something wrong.  Please let me know and I will try again.


Thanks.
Xiaoyan




On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 13:35:47 -0800
  Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Xiaoyan Ma wrote:
> 
>>On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 21:33:32 +0100
>>  Sythos <sythos at sythos.net> wrote:
>>> Il Thu, 01 Dec 2005 12:22:27 -0800
>>> "Xiaoyan Ma" <xma at uclink.berkeley.edu> scrisse:
>>> 
>>>> [xma at localhost bin]$ sudo ./remove_members --fromall
>>>> -f /home/xma/removetest.txt Remove members from a list.
>>>> 
>>>> Usage:
>>>>      remove_members [options] [listname] [addr1 ...]
>>> 
>>> try:
>>> 
>>> cat /home/xma/removetest.txt | ./remove_members --fromall -f
> 
> The above would have to be
> 
> cat /home/xma/removetest.txt | ./remove_members --fromall -f -
> 
> But that won't work either because there is a bug in remove_members. It
> insists on having at least one argument in addition to the options.
> Clearly this should not be required in the case where --fromall and
> -f|--file are both specified.
> 
> I'll fix this for 2.1.7. In the mean time, you can work around this
> with the command
> 
> sudo ./remove_members -f /home/xma/removetest.txt --fromall dummy_arg
> 
> or
> 
> sudo ./remove_members --fromall -f /home/xma/removetest.txt dummy_arg
> 
> where dummy_arg can be anything. And BTW, don't but quotes around the
> addresses in the file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or you can test the following patch for me :-)
> 
> --- f:/test_mailman-2.1.6/bin/remove_members    2003-03-31 12:07:56
> +++ f:/test-mailman/bin/remove_members  2005-12-01 13:31:23
> @@ -1,6 +1,6 @@
> #! /usr/bin/python
> #
> -# Copyright (C) 1998-2003 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc.
> +# Copyright (C) 1998-2005 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc.
> #
> # This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
> # modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
> @@ -110,9 +110,6 @@
>     except getopt.error, msg:
>         usage(1, msg)
> 
> -    if len(args) < 1:
> -        usage(1)
> -
>     filename = None
>     all = False
>     alllists = False
> @@ -134,6 +131,9 @@
>         elif opt in ('-N', '--noadminack'):
>             admin_notif = False
> 
> +    if len(args) < 1 and not (filename and alllists):
> +        usage(1)
> +
>     # You probably don't want to delete all the users of all the lists
> -- Marc
>     if all and alllists:
>        usage(1)
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  2 00:12:54 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 15:12:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] remove_members --fromall -f
In-Reply-To: <web-14000442@calmail-be1.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512011512540328aff92f9e@msapiro>

Xiaoyan Ma wrote:
>
>And I would love to help testing out the patch. But I got the follow error
>
>patching file remove_members
>Hunk #2 FAILED at 110.
>Hunk #3 succeeded at 97 with fuzz 2 (offset -34 lines).
>1 out of 3 hunks FAILED -- saving rejects to file remove_members.rej


Did you patch more than once? There may be a problem with the patch.
The lines

>>     # You probably don't want to delete all the users of all the lists
>> -- Marc

Are actually one line that was wrapped by my MUA. It should be just one
line that ends with 'all the lists -- Marc'


If you tried more than once, the .orig file may not be the actual
original either. See if you can revert to a true base and then try
patching with the patch with no wrapped lines. If you no longer have a
true base, let me know off list and I'll send you everything as
attachments.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From Darren.Young at ChicagoGSB.edu  Fri Dec  2 01:25:49 2005
From: Darren.Young at ChicagoGSB.edu (Young, Darren)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 18:25:49 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] nodupes flag
Message-ID: <490F3E9EEF01B04598860AAB71777B4E2BF643@GSBEX.gsb.uchicago.edu>

What / how exactly does the 'nodupes' flag do? That page says it 'tries'
to filter out duplicate messages to users, how does it determine that 2
addresses are in fact the same person? And on that, if I have 1 member
on a list with 2 addresses (same person), say jane.doe at mydomain.com and
jane.doe at yourdomain.com and the nodupes flag is on for one or both of
them, will Mailman in fact not duplicate the message to those 2 member
address?

Reason is, we're in the middle of converting from one domain name to a
new one and would like to leave the old address as well as the new
address in every list for a period of time. Then, after this time
passes, remove the old member address. However, I don't want people to
start receiving duplicate messages and was wondering how exactly this
flag works.

I'm currently planning to migrate people to the new domain via a
clone_member command for every member of every list. Have a script dumps
out the current membership for a list and if the domain portion is the
old one it does a clone from user at old_domain to user at new_domain. I added
the -r flag to the clone_member command to remove the old address but
have been asked to see if we can maintain the multiple memberships
without people receiving dupes.

Any feedback would be great. Thanks.

-------------------------------------------------------------
| Darren Young              | http://www.chicagogsb.edu     |
| Senior UNIX Administrator | darren.young at chicagogsb.edu   |
| University of Chicago GSB | darren.young at gsb.uchicago.edu |
-------------------------------------------------------------


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  2 01:49:07 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 16:49:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] nodupes flag
In-Reply-To: <490F3E9EEF01B04598860AAB71777B4E2BF643@GSBEX.gsb.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512011649070984be7b433f@msapiro>

Young, Darren wrote:

>What / how exactly does the 'nodupes' flag do? That page says it 'tries'
>to filter out duplicate messages to users, how does it determine that 2
>addresses are in fact the same person?


It doesn't. That's not at all what it does.


>And on that, if I have 1 member
>on a list with 2 addresses (same person), say jane.doe at mydomain.com and
>jane.doe at yourdomain.com and the nodupes flag is on for one or both of
>them, will Mailman in fact not duplicate the message to those 2 member
>address?


No


>Reason is, we're in the middle of converting from one domain name to a
>new one and would like to leave the old address as well as the new
>address in every list for a period of time. Then, after this time
>passes, remove the old member address. However, I don't want people to
>start receiving duplicate messages and was wondering how exactly this
>flag works.


All nodups does, is when figuring the recipients for a post (not a
digest), if a particular member's address is found in To: or Cc:
headers of the post and that member has nodups set for the list, that
member will not be sent a copy of this post. This is all explained
under "Avoid duplicate copies of messages?" on the user options page.

In other words, If you have nodups set on your mailman-users at python.org
subscription, you will only receive this post directly from me and not
from the list since your address is in To:.


>I'm currently planning to migrate people to the new domain via a
>clone_member command for every member of every list. Have a script dumps
>out the current membership for a list and if the domain portion is the
>old one it does a clone from user at old_domain to user at new_domain. I added
>the -r flag to the clone_member command to remove the old address but
>have been asked to see if we can maintain the multiple memberships
>without people receiving dupes.
>
>Any feedback would be great. Thanks.


You can set the old_domain subscription mail delivery to 'disabled'
(nomail in the admin membership page). Then members in both domains
will be able to post from either, but will only receive at new_domain

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From Darren.Young at ChicagoGSB.edu  Fri Dec  2 05:33:34 2005
From: Darren.Young at ChicagoGSB.edu (Young, Darren)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 22:33:34 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] nodupes flag
Message-ID: <490F3E9EEF01B04598860AAB71777B4E2BF645@GSBEX.gsb.uchicago.edu>

> 
> It doesn't. That's not at all what it does.
>

Good thing I asked :-) What, 'rm -fr /' doesn't log me out?

>
> All nodups does, is when figuring the recipients for a post (not a
> digest), if a particular member's address is found in To: or Cc:
> headers of the post and that member has nodups set for the list, that
> member will not be sent a copy of this post. This is all explained
> under "Avoid duplicate copies of messages?" on the user options page.
>

My bad, didn't look there. I was reading the description on the
membership management page which is a bit brief. As the 'box admin' and
'list admin' I really don't visit the user option pages all that much.
Not an excuse though.

> 
> In other words, If you have nodups set on your 
> mailman-users at python.org
> subscription, you will only receive this post directly from me and not
> from the list since your address is in To:.
>

Makes complete sense, was thinking of 'nodupes' from a different point
of view, more of an 'equivalent address' (a=b) kind of thing. Just
looked at my personal options for this list and see that the 'Avoid
duplicate copies of messages?' option is indeed set to 'Yes'. That
explains why the message you sent me (that was cc'd to the list) came to
my inbox only once.

> 
> You can set the old_domain subscription mail delivery to 'disabled'
> (nomail in the admin membership page). Then members in both domains
> will be able to post from either, but will only receive at new_domain
> 

A scriptlet that withlist could call to set these? I've set and/or
enforced list level options (privacy, bounce processing, archival) with
those many times over, is it possible to act on an individual list
membership in the same manner? I'm really not much of a Python coder
(Perl is fine) so if I can avoid writing Python directly I do. In fact,
I'm so bad at Python that I wrote .pm's as wrappers around the supplied
command line utilities to do all my admin tasks.

I want to mention this as well to you personally. I haven't had the need
to post to this list in many months, however, almost every time I have a
question (95+%) you have had an answer. Kudo's and thanks.



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  2 06:58:59 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 21:58:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] nodupes flag
In-Reply-To: <490F3E9EEF01B04598860AAB71777B4E2BF645@GSBEX.gsb.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402005120121585906403cf398bb@msapiro>

Young, Darren wrote:
>
>> M.S. Wrote:
>> You can set the old_domain subscription mail delivery to 'disabled'
>> (nomail in the admin membership page). Then members in both domains
>> will be able to post from either, but will only receive at new_domain
>>
>
>A scriptlet that withlist could call to set these? I've set and/or
>enforced list level options (privacy, bounce processing, archival) with
>those many times over, is it possible to act on an individual list
>membership in the same manner? I'm really not much of a Python coder
>(Perl is fine) so if I can avoid writing Python directly I do. In fact,
>I'm so bad at Python that I wrote .pm's as wrappers around the supplied
>command line utilities to do all my admin tasks.


The method mlist.getDeliveryStatus(member) gets the delivery status of
member. The method mlist.setDeliveryStatus(member, status) sets the
status of member to status.

Valid values for status are

# Delivery statuses
ENABLED  = 0                           # enabled
UNKNOWN  = 1                           # legacy disabled
BYUSER   = 2                           # disabled by user choice
BYADMIN  = 3                           # disabled by admin choice
BYBOUNCE = 4                           # disabled by bounces

You can set these as a numeric value or you can import them from
Mailman.MemberAdaptor.

For example:

--------Begin set_byadmin.py------------------
from Mailman.MemberAdaptor import BYADMIN

def set_byadmin(mlist):
    mlist.Lock()
    for email in mlist.getMembers():
        user, domain = email.split('@')
        if domain == 'old_domain':
            mlist.setDeliveryStatus(email, BYADMIN)
    mlist.Save()
    mlist.Unlock()
--------End set_byadmin.py-------------------

Save the above as bin/set_byadmin.py, then

bin/withlist -a -r set_byadmin

Disclaimer: Barely tested! No Warranty!
As someone once said, "If it breaks, you get to keep all the pieces."



>I want to mention this as well to you personally. I haven't had the need
>to post to this list in many months, however, almost every time I have a
>question (95+%) you have had an answer. Kudo's and thanks.


Thank you. OCD is a terrible thing to waste. :-)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pmoss at fcg.com  Fri Dec  2 13:58:48 2005
From: pmoss at fcg.com (Moss, Patricia)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 07:58:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration Help
Message-ID: <30A2052826E26449AEEF1D745E38C75201CCCDB1@pant03.fcg.com>

I have mailman version 2.1.5-33 installed on a RedHat Linux ES4.0
server. I now need to migrate my lists and archives from an NT4 server
running L-Soft Listserv 1.8e over to my mailman installation.

I have been searching the site and archives but am not finding
documentation that can assist me.  Can some help me to obtain the
documentation for this migration?  Thanks much.

 

Pati Moss

Unix Systems Administrator

"UNIX is user friendly. It's just picky about who it's friends with."

 



This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.


From Darren.Young at ChicagoGSB.edu  Fri Dec  2 16:05:50 2005
From: Darren.Young at ChicagoGSB.edu (Young, Darren)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 09:05:50 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List create CGI
Message-ID: <490F3E9EEF01B04598860AAB71777B4E2BF64A@GSBEX.gsb.uchicago.edu>


Looking to farm out our Mailman list management (add & remove) to our
helpdesk. Anyone seen/have a CGI based Mailman list creation/removal
tool?

-------------------------------------------------------------
| Darren Young              | http://www.chicagogsb.edu     |
| Senior UNIX Administrator | darren.young at chicagogsb.edu   |
| University of Chicago GSB | darren.young at gsb.uchicago.edu |
------------------------------------------------------------- 


From gaoandy at gmail.com  Fri Dec  2 17:13:13 2005
From: gaoandy at gmail.com (Andy Gao)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 11:13:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman-bounces error
Message-ID: <eca6b080512020813k6fb2826ew676b80976094a637@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, all:

I installed mailman2.1.6  with sendmail8.13 on fedora core3 box.

I saw in the root mail some messages like this:

 The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
<nui at abc.org> <nuin at genedrift.org>
    (reason: 550-Verification failed for
<mailman-bounces at localhost.localdomain>
<mailman-bounces at localhost.localdomain>)


  ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to abc.org.:

>>> DATA

<<< 550-Verification failed for
<mailman-bounces at localhost.localdomain>
<mailman-bounces at localhost.localdomain>
<<< 550-unrouteable mail domain "localhost.localdomain"
<<< 550 Sender verify failed
550 5.1.1 <nui at abc.org> <nuin at genedrift.org>... User unknown
<<< 503 valid RCPT command must precede DATA
550 5.1.1 <mailman-bounces at localhost.localdomain>
<mailman-bounces at localhost.localdomain>... User unknown


------------------------------

Reporting-MTA: dns; localhost.localdomain
Arrival-Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 05:00:04 -0500

Final-Recipient: RFC822; nui at abc.org <nuin at genedrift.org>
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: DNS; abc.org
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550-Verification failed for
<mailman-bounces at localhost.localdomain>
<mailman-bounces at localhost.localdomain>
Last-Attempt-Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 05:01:25 -0500


=============================================
I guess that is something wrong with my MTA configuration.
for other mailman related account:
mailman-request at ex.com
mailman-owner at ex.com
..
are correct with my domain name "ex.com".

Any enlightment?

Thanks.

andy


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  2 19:14:03 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 10:14:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List create CGI
In-Reply-To: <490F3E9EEF01B04598860AAB71777B4E2BF64A@GSBEX.gsb.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512021014030296aaf22f4b@msapiro>

Young, Darren wrote:
>
>Looking to farm out our Mailman list management (add & remove) to our
>helpdesk. Anyone seen/have a CGI based Mailman list creation/removal
>tool?

If I understand you correctly, they already are there.

<http://www.example.com/mailman/create> (linked from the
<http://www.example.com/mailman/admin> overview page) and
<http://www.example.com/mailman/rmlist>.

create requires either the site password or a special list creator
password set with bin/mmsitepass.

rmlist requires "OWNERS_CAN_DELETE_THEIR_OWN_LISTS = Yes" in mm_cfg.py
which will then place a list deletion link on the list's various admin
pages. If you don't want owners to be able to do it, you could hack
the Mailman/Cgi/rmlist.py script to require a password instead or in
addition, or just create your own CGI based on that script.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kig at telekom.ru  Fri Dec  2 19:22:44 2005
From: kig at telekom.ru (=?Windows-1251?B?yu7i4Ovl7eruIMji4O0=?=)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 21:22:44 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blocking a list on the server
Message-ID: <1805406390.20051202212244@telekom.ru>

Hi

  is there a way to block a list on the server being Server
  Administrator, not list owner? Maybe there is a switch to
  block/unblock list from functioning, which overrides list owners
  rights?

  Ivan





From Darren.Young at ChicagoGSB.edu  Fri Dec  2 19:29:43 2005
From: Darren.Young at ChicagoGSB.edu (Young, Darren)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 12:29:43 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List create CGI
Message-ID: <490F3E9EEF01B04598860AAB71777B4E2BF64E@GSBEX.gsb.uchicago.edu>

> If I understand you correctly, they already are there.
> 
> <http://www.example.com/mailman/create> (linked from the 
> <http://www.example.com/mailman/admin> overview page) and 
> <http://www.example.com/mailman/rmlist>.

Getting a 'Bad URL Specification' when accessing /mailman/rmlist. Do I
have to set the option then access it directly from the admin pages?
 
> create requires either the site password or a special list 
> creator password set with bin/mmsitepass.

Site password will work, they already use that. Thanks,

> 
> rmlist requires "OWNERS_CAN_DELETE_THEIR_OWN_LISTS = Yes" in 
> mm_cfg.py which will then place a list deletion link on the 
> list's various admin pages. If you don't want owners to be 
> able to do it, you could hack the Mailman/Cgi/rmlist.py 
> script to require a password instead or in addition, or just 
> create your own CGI based on that script.
> 

Rather not give them that access, I'll take a look at rmlist.py


From Jason at Weatherserver.net  Fri Dec  2 19:21:32 2005
From: Jason at Weatherserver.net (Jason (WeatherServer))
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 13:21:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archive question
Message-ID: <000801c5f76d$38e4c5a0$1400000a@workstation>

I have about 25 lists currently. Is there a way I can mass set the archive settings on them all?

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=Ottawa Valley Weather-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Weather @ 1:20pm - Temp: -2.4?C - Humidity 63% - Wind: WSW @ 0 km/h
Baro: 997kPa Steady - Vis: 2km - Sky:  - Weather:  Light Snow Drifting Snow
Rain - Past Hour: 0.00mm - 24hr: 0.00mm - Total:(09/15/05): 204.00mm

=-=-=-= Website: http://www.WeatherServer.net =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
EMAIL ALERT LISTS Signup at http://listserver.weatherserver.net  today.....


From Darren.Young at ChicagoGSB.edu  Fri Dec  2 19:35:35 2005
From: Darren.Young at ChicagoGSB.edu (Young, Darren)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 12:35:35 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blocking a list on the server
Message-ID: <490F3E9EEF01B04598860AAB71777B4E2BF64F@GSBEX.gsb.uchicago.edu>

>
>   is there a way to block a list on the server being Server
>   Administrator, not list owner? Maybe there is a switch to
>   block/unblock list from functioning, which overrides list owners
>   rights?
>

Some options could be:

1) remove the list.

2) set the list to emergency moderate (and optionally discard/hold the
postings).

3) If you want it to work but the owner to not have access, change the
passwords. If you use #2, you'll probably want to do this as well since
the owner can just turn traffic back on.

Do you want the list to actually accept incoming messages (and hold
them) or have the system bounce them back? Could set all non-member
postings to be rejected along with a rejection message.

Remove the list aliases (/etc/aliases I'm assuming) which would cause
the inbound messages to hard bounce back to the sender.


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  2 19:50:02 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 10:50:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List create CGI
In-Reply-To: <490F3E9EEF01B04598860AAB71777B4E2BF64E@GSBEX.gsb.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512021050020140aedb2eae@msapiro>

Young, Darren wrote:
>
>Getting a 'Bad URL Specification' when accessing /mailman/rmlist. Do I
>have to set the option then access it directly from the admin pages?

You have to specify a list to delete, e.g.
<http://www.example.com/mailman/rmlist/test_list>, but then if you
haven't set "OWNERS_CAN_DELETE_THEIR_OWN_LISTS = Yes", you'll get the
"You're being a sneaky list owner!" error, so yes, to use the
unmodified script, you have to set the option.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From sgarcia at bak.rr.com  Fri Dec  2 20:05:23 2005
From: sgarcia at bak.rr.com (Steve Garcia)
Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 11:05:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem installing on Solaris 8
Message-ID: <43909AF3.1010804@bak.rr.com>

I'm trying to install Mailman 2.1.6 on a Solaris 8 machine.  There seems
to be a rather strange error and I'm not sure if it's a misconfiguration
of my machine or a problem with Mailman.

I had no problem with 'configure' or with 'make'.  I *did* use gcc --
there is a "cc" binary on the system, but the Sun compiler is *not*
present, and this was no problem during the compile phase.

However, when I got to 'make install' it seems there is a problem.  The
install process seems to want to call "cc", even though it was not
specified or used in either 'configure' or 'make'.

Here is the error I get:

8<---start------------------------------------------------------
    (cd ./$p ; umask 02 ; PYTHONPATH=/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib
/opt/csw/bin/python setup.py --quiet install --install-lib
/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib  --install-purelib
/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib  --install-data
/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib); \
done
/opt/csw/lib/python2.3/distutils/dist.py:213: UserWarning: 'licence'
distribution option is deprecated; use 'license'
  warnings.warn(msg)
/usr/ucb/cc:  language optional software package not installed
error: command 'cc' failed with exit status 1
*** Error code 1
make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `install-packages'
Current working directory /export/home/users/steve/mailman-2.1.6/misc
*** Error code 1
make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `doinstall'
8<----stop-----------------------------------------------

The error message from "cc" is the message that you get because the Sun
compiler is not installed.  But why is it being called?  I've tried
taking /usr/ucb out of the path so that there is no "cc" binary
available, but then I get the error that there is no "cc".

OK, here's a workaround, but it's ugly.  I put a symlink pointing cc to
gcc and then made sure /usr/ucb was not in the path.  I got some warnings:

cc1: warning: "-Wno-deprecated" is valid for C++ but not C/ObjC

but the install finished.  It really sounds like there is something in
the Mailman install procedure that has "cc" hard coded.






From Darren.Young at ChicagoGSB.edu  Fri Dec  2 20:12:10 2005
From: Darren.Young at ChicagoGSB.edu (Young, Darren)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 13:12:10 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem installing on Solaris 8
Message-ID: <490F3E9EEF01B04598860AAB71777B4E2BF650@GSBEX.gsb.uchicago.edu>

> I'm trying to install Mailman 2.1.6 on a Solaris 8 machine.  
> There seems to be a rather strange error and I'm not sure if 
> it's a misconfiguration of my machine or a problem with Mailman.
> 
> I had no problem with 'configure' or with 'make'.  I *did* 
> use gcc -- there is a "cc" binary on the system, but the Sun 
> compiler is *not* present, and this was no problem during the 
> compile phase.
> 
> However, when I got to 'make install' it seems there is a 
> problem.  The install process seems to want to call "cc", 
> even though it was not specified or used in either 
> 'configure' or 'make'.
> 
> Here is the error I get:
> 
> 8<---start------------------------------------------------------
>     (cd ./$p ; umask 02 ; PYTHONPATH=/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib
> /opt/csw/bin/python setup.py --quiet install --install-lib 
> /usr/local/mailman/pythonlib  --install-purelib 
> /usr/local/mailman/pythonlib  --install-data 
> /usr/local/mailman/pythonlib); \ done
> /opt/csw/lib/python2.3/distutils/dist.py:213: UserWarning: 'licence'
> distribution option is deprecated; use 'license'
>   warnings.warn(msg)
> /usr/ucb/cc:  language optional software package not installed
> error: command 'cc' failed with exit status 1
> *** Error code 1
> make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `install-packages'
> Current working directory /export/home/users/steve/mailman-2.1.6/misc
> *** Error code 1
> make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `doinstall'
> 8<----stop-----------------------------------------------
> 
> The error message from "cc" is the message that you get 
> because the Sun compiler is not installed.  But why is it 
> being called?  I've tried taking /usr/ucb out of the path so 
> that there is no "cc" binary available, but then I get the 
> error that there is no "cc".
> 
> OK, here's a workaround, but it's ugly.  I put a symlink 
> pointing cc to gcc and then made sure /usr/ucb was not in the 
> path.  I got some warnings:
> 
> cc1: warning: "-Wno-deprecated" is valid for C++ but not C/ObjC
> 
> but the install finished.  It really sounds like there is 
> something in the Mailman install procedure that has "cc" hard coded.
> 

Try export CC='gcc' or CC='/path/to/gcc' then clean and re-run configure

Or clean and run configure CC='/path/to/gcc'

Or even both.

Watch out for ar as well, I've had that do the same thing on Solaris 8. 

I usually add CC='/opt/sfw/bin/gcc' and AR='/opt/sfw/bin/gcc' to all my
configure's and make's




From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  2 20:16:23 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 11:16:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem installing on Solaris 8
In-Reply-To: <43909AF3.1010804@bak.rr.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512021116230296db79f2bf@msapiro>

Steve Garcia wrote:
>
>However, when I got to 'make install' it seems there is a problem.  The
>install process seems to want to call "cc", even though it was not
>specified or used in either 'configure' or 'make'.
>
>Here is the error I get:
<snip>
>
>The error message from "cc" is the message that you get because the Sun
>compiler is not installed.  But why is it being called?  I've tried
>taking /usr/ucb out of the path so that there is no "cc" binary
>available, but then I get the error that there is no "cc".

Did you try this *before* running configure? I.e. did you rerun
configure after taking /usr/ucb out of the path?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  2 20:26:09 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 11:26:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archive question
In-Reply-To: <000801c5f76d$38e4c5a0$1400000a@workstation>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512021126090390ed0a6faf@msapiro>

Jason (WeatherServer) wrote:

>I have about 25 lists currently. Is there a way I can mass set the archive settings on them all?

You can use "bin/withlist -a -r script" where script.py locks the list,
sets the archive* attributes, saves and unlocks the list (see
"bin/withlist --help"), or you can use bin/config_list run from a
shell script that iterates over all the names in the lists/ directory.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From gaoandy at gmail.com  Fri Dec  2 20:37:11 2005
From: gaoandy at gmail.com (Andy Gao)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 14:37:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman-bounces error
In-Reply-To: <eca6b080512020813k6fb2826ew676b80976094a637@mail.gmail.com>
References: <eca6b080512020813k6fb2826ew676b80976094a637@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <eca6b080512021137x3afd8631n44774e5afa45a76c@mail.gmail.com>

I guess that is the mailman bounce, not specific to the list.
domain name is not added to mailman-bounce ..........
Anyone can help?
thanks

On 12/2/05, Andy Gao <gaoandy at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi, all:
>
> I installed mailman2.1.6  with sendmail8.13 on fedora core3 box.
>
> I saw in the root mail some messages like this:
>
>  The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
> <nui at abc.org> <nuin at genedrift.org>
>     (reason: 550-Verification failed for
> <mailman-bounces at localhost.localdomain> <mailman-bounces at localhost.localdomain>)
>
>
>   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> ... while talking to abc.org.:
>
> >>> DATA
>
> <<< 550-Verification failed for <mailman-bounces at localhost.localdomain> <mailman-bounces at localhost.localdomain>
> <<< 550-unrouteable mail domain "
> localhost.localdomain"
> <<< 550 Sender verify failed
> 550 5.1.1 <nui at abc.org> <nuin at genedrift.org>... User unknown
> <<< 503 valid RCPT command must precede DATA
>
> 550 5.1.1 <mailman-bounces at localhost.localdomain> <mailman-bounces at localhost.localdomain>... User unknown
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Reporting-MTA: dns; localhost.localdomain
> Arrival-Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 05:00:04 -0500
>
>
> Final-Recipient: RFC822; nui at abc.org <nuin at genedrift.org>
> Action: failed
> Status: 5.1.1
> Remote-MTA: DNS; abc.org
> Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550-Verification failed for
> <mailman-bounces at localhost.localdomain> <mailman-bounces at localhost.localdomain>
> Last-Attempt-Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 05:01:25 -0500
>
>
> =============================================
> I guess that is something wrong with my MTA configuration.
> for other mailman related account:
>
> mailman-request at ex.com
> mailman-owner at ex.com
> ..
> are correct with my domain name "ex.com".
>
>
> Any enlightment?
>
> Thanks.
>
> andy
>
>


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  2 21:05:27 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 12:05:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman-bounces error
In-Reply-To: <eca6b080512021137x3afd8631n44774e5afa45a76c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512021205270171aedb2ee6@msapiro>

Andy Gao wrote:

>I guess that is the mailman bounce, not specific to the list.
>domain name is not added to mailman-bounce ..........

What is the host_name attribute on the General Options page of the
mailman list?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From gaoandy at gmail.com  Fri Dec  2 21:18:42 2005
From: gaoandy at gmail.com (Andy Gao)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 15:18:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman-bounces error
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200512021205270171aedb2ee6@msapiro>
References: <eca6b080512021137x3afd8631n44774e5afa45a76c@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200512021205270171aedb2ee6@msapiro>
Message-ID: <eca6b080512021218t65086484t49a1c0b0eb6064e8@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/2/05, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Andy Gao wrote:
>
> >I guess that is the mailman bounce, not specific to the list.
> >domain name is not added to mailman-bounce ..........
>
> What is the host_name attribute on the General Options page of the
> mailman list?
>
>
it is ex.com (my domain name)


From smielke at famsi.org  Fri Dec  2 21:35:32 2005
From: smielke at famsi.org (smielke at famsi.org)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 15:35:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] confirmation email doesn't work
Message-ID: <00c701c5f77f$f0f59220$2901a8c0@famsi12>

This is my first time using Mailman, and I can add people to my mailing list through the admin web page.  Users can also add themselves to the mailing list through the web page.  But users can not subscribed when replying to the email.  I can't find any errors in the log files.  I've tried just replying to the email.  I've tried removing the RE: in the reply.  I've also tried just a plain email with the confim in the subject line.  Can anyone give me pointers as to where I can look or maybe suggestions on what to check to fix this problem??

Thanks.

From kig at telekom.ru  Fri Dec  2 22:44:34 2005
From: kig at telekom.ru (=?Windows-1251?B?yu7i4Ovl7eruIMji4O0=?=)
Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 00:44:34 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blocking a list on the server
In-Reply-To: <490F3E9EEF01B04598860AAB71777B4E2BF64F@GSBEX.gsb.uchicago.edu>
References: <490F3E9EEF01B04598860AAB71777B4E2BF64F@GSBEX.gsb.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <146733484.20051203004434@telekom.ru>



YD> Some options could be:

YD> 1) remove the list.
Alas - it can be done. I have to maintain these damned spammers as i
cant move them along.
YD> 2) set the list to emergency moderate (and optionally discard/hold the
YD> postings).

YD> 3) If you want it to work but the owner to not have access, change the
YD> passwords. If you use #2, you'll probably want to do this as well since
YD> the owner can just turn traffic back on.

I mean to temporarly block, i.e. make list unavailable to list owner
for a period of time, making no changes in it. More precise - freeze
it. Can i move its directory out of lists/?
Frankly, i'm responsible for cpanel installation and some spam users
annoying me (and company as well).


YD> Do you want the list to actually accept incoming messages (and hold
YD> them) or have the system bounce them back? Could set all non-member
YD> postings to be rejected along with a rejection message.



YD> Remove the list aliases (/etc/aliases I'm assuming) which would cause
YD> the inbound messages to hard bounce back to the sender.



-- 
? ?????????,
 ????????? ????, ?????-???????              mailto:kig at telekom.ru



From daevid at daevid.com  Sat Dec  3 03:06:21 2005
From: daevid at daevid.com (Daevid Vincent)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 18:06:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Does mailman send one message at a time,
	or all at once?
Message-ID: <20051203020630.784581E4009@bag.python.org>

I'm considering getting this MailHop Outbound service, however one of the
restrictions they have is in this FAQ:

http://www.dyndns.com/services/mailhop/faq.html#q114
Q: What is the maximum number of recipients in a message sent via MailHop
Outbound?
A: You may specify at most 100 recipients per message. If you need to send a
message to more than 100 recipients, you will need to split it into blocks
of 100 or less. This restriction is necessary to deter spammers.

I run a 'mailman v2.1.5' list for club events happening around town. I have
around 150 people on the list. Will this work? Does mailman send out one
message at a time, or will I be limited to this restriction above?

Daevid.

P.S. if anyone can suggest a way to get out of RBL hell, I am all ears. I
run Gentoo and Exim 4.54 on my home cable modem. I'm getting increasingly
frustrated with this RBL shit. Many ISPs (AOL, earthlink, etc.) are blocking
mail from my domain simply because I happen to be on a Comcast (Seattle, WA)
dynamic IP.

"You had me at EHLO" --E.Webb (10.04.05) 



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sat Dec  3 03:32:41 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 03:32:41 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Does mailman send one message at a time,
 or all at once?
In-Reply-To: <20051203020630.784581E4009@bag.python.org>
References: <20051203020630.784581E4009@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <p0620070ebfb6b15d510e@[10.0.1.210]>

At 6:06 PM -0800 2005-12-02, Daevid Vincent wrote:

>  I run a 'mailman v2.1.5' list for club events happening around town. I have
>  around 150 people on the list. Will this work? Does mailman send out one
>  message at a time, or will I be limited to this restriction above?

	By default, Mailman will group recipients together into chunks 
the size specified in your mm_cfg.py, or in Defaults.py (if you 
didn't put in anything in mm_cfg.py).

	However, if you turn on personalization, then Mailman will send 
out one message per person.  Search the FAQ for "VERP" and 
"personalization" in order to learn more.

>  P.S. if anyone can suggest a way to get out of RBL hell, I am all ears. I
>  run Gentoo and Exim 4.54 on my home cable modem. I'm getting increasingly
>  frustrated with this RBL shit. Many ISPs (AOL, earthlink, etc.) are blocking
>  mail from my domain simply because I happen to be on a Comcast (Seattle, WA)
>  dynamic IP.

	Use an outbound mail relay service, whereby you pay them money to 
act as your relay.  Route all outbound mail through them.  Make sure 
they're clean and not spammer-friendly, otherwise you're back in the 
same RBL hell that you're in now.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec  3 03:37:28 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 18:37:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blocking a list on the server
References: <490F3E9EEF01B04598860AAB71777B4E2BF64F@GSBEX.gsb.uchicago.edu>
	<146733484.20051203004434@telekom.ru>
Message-ID: <000301c5f7b2$8151aca0$0200a8c0@msapiro>

????????? ???? wrote:
>
> I mean to temporarly block, i.e. make list unavailable to list owner
> for a period of time, making no changes in it. More precise - freeze
> it. Can i move its directory out of lists/?


Yes, you can move it's directory out of lists/ if that is what you want. 
Doing that will prevent all access to the list except for public 
archives. Attempts to post, administer the list, validate for private 
archive access, etc. will all fail. If you use Exim integrated with 
Mailman as your MTA, post attempts will bounce because Exim will not see 
the list. If you use an MTA with aliases, the post script will exit with 
an error which the MTA may see and bounce the message or not. It may 
depend on the MTA, and I'm not sure.

Nothing will actually break. bin/rmlist essentially does the same thing 
except it will also remove aliases if MTA = 'Postfix'.

At some point in the future, you can move the directory back and 
continue from where you left off.


> Frankly, i'm responsible for cpanel installation and some spam users
> annoying me (and company as well).


I'm still having trouble understanding the whole picture of what your 
problem is and why you want to do this, but I hope I've answered your 
question.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec  3 03:50:29 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 18:50:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] confirmation email doesn't work
In-Reply-To: <00c701c5f77f$f0f59220$2901a8c0@famsi12>
Message-ID: <PC174020051202185029017147ed66a8@msapiro>

<smielke at famsi.org> wrote:

>This is my first time using Mailman, and I can add people to my mailing list through the admin web page.  Users can also add themselves to the mailing list through the web page.  But users can not subscribed when replying to the email.  I can't find any errors in the log files.  I've tried just replying to the email.  I've tried removing the RE: in the reply.  I've also tried just a plain email with the confim in the subject line.  Can anyone give me pointers as to where I can look or maybe suggestions on what to check to fix this problem??


Do you get any kind of 'results of your email commands' reply?

Are you using some brain dead Microsoft email client that replies to
the envelope sender and not the From:?

What happens if you compose a totally new mail To: the list-request at ...
address with 'confirm' and the 'token' copied exactly into the subject
of the new mail?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From daevid at daevid.com  Sat Dec  3 21:25:50 2005
From: daevid at daevid.com (Daevid Vincent)
Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 12:25:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Does mailman send one message at a time,
	or all at once?
In-Reply-To: <p0620070ebfb6b15d510e@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <004301c5f847$d273ad50$450a0a0a@locutus>

 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brad Knowles [mailto:brad at stop.mail-abuse.org] 
> Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 6:33 PM
> To: Daevid Vincent
> Cc: 'Mailman Users'
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Does mailman send one message at 
> a time, or all at once?
> 
> At 6:06 PM -0800 2005-12-02, Daevid Vincent wrote:
> 
> >  I run a 'mailman v2.1.5' list for club events happening 
> around town. I have
> >  around 150 people on the list. Will this work? Does 
> mailman send out one
> >  message at a time, or will I be limited to this restriction above?
> 
> 	By default, Mailman will group recipients together into chunks 
> the size specified in your mm_cfg.py, or in Defaults.py (if you 
> didn't put in anything in mm_cfg.py).

So are you saying, I could tell mailman to group in chunks of say 50 and
even though I have 150 people on the list, mailman would deliver 3 batches
of 50 to cover them all? Thereby I can keep below my 100 / email limitation
that this service provides me?

> 	However, if you turn on personalization, then Mailman will send 
> out one message per person.  Search the FAQ for "VERP" and 
> "personalization" in order to learn more.
> 
> >  P.S. if anyone can suggest a way to get out of RBL hell, I 
> am all ears. I
> >  run Gentoo and Exim 4.54 on my home cable modem. I'm 
> getting increasingly
> >  frustrated with this RBL shit. Many ISPs (AOL, earthlink, 
> etc.) are blocking
> >  mail from my domain simply because I happen to be on a 
> Comcast (Seattle, WA)
> >  dynamic IP.
> 
> 	Use an outbound mail relay service, whereby you pay 
> them money to 
> act as your relay.  Route all outbound mail through them.  Make sure 
> they're clean and not spammer-friendly, otherwise you're back in the 
> same RBL hell that you're in now.

Is this different than 
http://www.dyndns.com/services/mailhop/outbound.html
Or
http://www.no-ip.com/services/managed_mail/inbound_port_25_unblock.html

Can you (or anyone) suggest one that "just works" with my setup (above)?

Thanks for the reply.

Daevid.



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Dec  4 02:43:46 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 17:43:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Does mailman send one message at a time,
	or all at once?
In-Reply-To: <004301c5f847$d273ad50$450a0a0a@locutus>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512031743460937b8b531b7@msapiro>

Daevid Vincent wrote:
>
>So are you saying, I could tell mailman to group in chunks of say 50 and
>even though I have 150 people on the list, mailman would deliver 3 batches
>of 50 to cover them all? Thereby I can keep below my 100 / email limitation
>that this service provides me?


Just set

SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 50

in mm_cfg.py. You may also need to set

SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION = 1

depending on how your smtp service counts the 50, i.e. 50 recipients in
one transaction vs. 50 in one connection.

See the

#####
# Delivery defaults
#####

section in Defaults.py for more info.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From hugosthlm at yahoo.com  Sun Dec  4 07:31:04 2005
From: hugosthlm at yahoo.com (Hugo Hugo)
Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 22:31:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change language in archives
Message-ID: <20051204063104.11008.qmail@web54603.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi all !
   
  I have managed to change the language in Mailman to Swedish. However I still have a problem in the archives. Thread, Date and Subject are not correctly translated. Strangely enough, Author IS correctly translated. The values are in thread_ref, date_ref, subject_ref, but I can't see where they are set. They are used in the templates archidxfoot.html and archidxhead.html. I have the mailman/htdig integration patch. Mailman version is 2.1.5. Pipermail 0.9. Fedora Core 2.
   
  Can someone help me ?
   
  Cheers,
   
  Hugo

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From kim.leandersson at chs.chalmers.se  Sun Dec  4 15:00:09 2005
From: kim.leandersson at chs.chalmers.se (Kim Leandersson)
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 15:00:09 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with mailman and qmail?
Message-ID: <78C3380FC84D724287837FD9A8EFC02FF7D1AA@vera.chs.chalmers.se>

Hi,

I've been running mailman for some years and are satisfied with how it
works and thougt I collected some knowledge about it. I've been running
mailman with both postfix and sendmail as MTA:s without any problem. A
couple of months ago we decided to give the hosting software plesk a
chance and now the challenge began for me. Plesk is using qmail and I
haven't really understood what I doing wrong now but maybe you could
help me out. 

The server hosts several domains which have the ability to create
mailman lists via the webbinterface. This works great, the problem comes
every month when the monthly reminders are sent out. I'll try to
describe this with an example.

An explicit example:
The address i97elst at itek.chalmers.se is a member of the list
manskor at choir.chs.chalmers.se, the problem is that this address isn't
working. So when mail is sent to manskor at choir.chs.chalmers.se a bounce
is produced. This bounce would in an ideal world be sent to
manskor-bounces at choir.chs.chalmers.se that would be extracted to the
list administrator.

However, when the monthly reminder is sent out we (as postmaster) get
the following (see below). Everywhere in the header we see
mailman-bounces at plesk.chs.chalmers.se and not
manskor-bounces at plesk.chs.chalmers.se. The problem also seems to be that
mailman-bounces at plesk.chs.chalmers.se isn't accepting any mails.

Any hints on how to get the maillists to send bounces to
MAILLIST_NAME-bounces at domain.tld? I've tried both searching the Internet
and talking to the Plesk support without any luck so any help is deeply
appreciated.

//kim

##################### .qmail-manskor-bounces
###############################
Plesk# .qmail-manskor-bounces 
|/var/qmail/bin/preline /var/qmail/bin/mm_wrapper
/var/mailman/mail/mailman bounces manskor


#################### Bounce sent to postmaster
##############################

Hi. This is the qmail-send program at plesk.chs.chalmers.se.
I tried to deliver a bounce message to this address, but the bounce
bounced!

<mailman-bounces at plesk.chs.chalmers.se>:
This address no longer accepts mail.

--- Below this line is the original bounce.

Return-Path: <>
Received: (qmail 14566 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2005 05:01:21 +0100
Received: from emil.chs.chalmers.se (HELO mail.chs.chalmers.se)
(129.16.159.10)
  by plesk.chs.chalmers.se with SMTP; 1 Dec 2005 05:01:21 +0100
Received: by mail.chs.chalmers.se (Postfix)
	id B0EED9C8B; Thu,  1 Dec 2005 05:01:18 +0100 (CET)
Date: Thu,  1 Dec 2005 05:01:18 +0100 (CET)
From: MAILER-DAEMON at chs.chalmers.se (Mail Delivery System)
Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
To: mailman-bounces at plesk.chs.chalmers.se
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status;
	boundary="5C84D9C80.1133409678/mail.chs.chalmers.se"
Message-Id: <20051201040118.B0EED9C8B at mail.chs.chalmers.se>

This is a MIME-encapsulated message.

--5C84D9C80.1133409678/mail.chs.chalmers.se
Content-Description: Notification
Content-Type: text/plain

This is the Postfix program at host mail.chs.chalmers.se.

I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not be
be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below.

For further assistance, please send mail to <postmaster>

If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
delete your own text from the attached returned message.

			The Postfix program

<i97elst at itek.chalmers.se>: host mail.medic.chalmers.se[129.16.30.218]
said:
    550 <i97elst at itek.chalmers.se>: Recipient address rejected: User
unknown in
    virtual alias table (in reply to RCPT TO command)

--5C84D9C80.1133409678/mail.chs.chalmers.se
Content-Description: Delivery report
Content-Type: message/delivery-status

Reporting-MTA: dns; mail.chs.chalmers.se
X-Postfix-Queue-ID: 5C84D9C80
X-Postfix-Sender: rfc822; mailman-bounces at plesk.chs.chalmers.se
Arrival-Date: Thu,  1 Dec 2005 05:01:18 +0100 (CET)

Final-Recipient: rfc822; i97elst at itek.chalmers.se
Action: failed
Status: 5.0.0
Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; host mail.medic.chalmers.se[129.16.30.218]
said:
    550 <i97elst at itek.chalmers.se>: Recipient address rejected: User
unknown in
    virtual alias table (in reply to RCPT TO command)

--5C84D9C80.1133409678/mail.chs.chalmers.se
Content-Description: Undelivered Message
Content-Type: message/rfc822

Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by mail.chs.chalmers.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C84D9C80
	for <i97elst at itek.chalmers.se>; Thu,  1 Dec 2005 05:01:18 +0100
(CET)
Received: from mail.chs.chalmers.se ([129.16.159.10])
	by localhost (emil.chs.chalmers.se [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new,
port 10024)
	with ESMTP id 04445-08 for <i97elst at itek.chalmers.se>;
	Thu, 1 Dec 2005 05:01:13 +0100 (CET)
Received: from plesk.chs.chalmers.se (plesk.chs.chalmers.se
[129.16.159.21])
	by mail.chs.chalmers.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BCA49C8A
	for <i97elst at itek.chalmers.se>; Thu,  1 Dec 2005 05:00:08 +0100
(CET)
Received: (qmail 11621 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2005 05:00:08 +0100
Received: from localhost (HELO plesk.chs.chalmers.se)
(?U2FsdGVkX18V/Gf6LdrZT6sQ1VyqKOhpD0+zmUaowxE=?@127.0.0.1)
  by localhost with SMTP; 1 Dec 2005 05:00:08 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: choir.chs.chalmers.se mailing list memberships reminder
From: mailman-owner at choir.chs.chalmers.se
To: i97elst at itek.chalmers.se
X-No-Archive: yes
Message-ID: <mailman.40.1133409600.11351.mailman at plesk.chs.chalmers.se>
Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 05:00:00 +0100
Precedence: bulk
X-BeenThere: mailman at plesk.chs.chalmers.se
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
List-Id: mailman.plesk.chs.chalmers.se
X-List-Administrivia: yes
Sender: mailman-bounces at plesk.chs.chalmers.se
Errors-To: mailman-bounces at plesk.chs.chalmers.se
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at chs.chalmers.se
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.9 tagged_above=-999.0 required=5.0
	tests=ALL_TRUSTED, AWL, BAYES_00, NO_REAL_NAME
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Score: -5.891 (SPAM:)

This is a reminder, sent out once a month, about your
choir.chs.chalmers.se mailing list memberships.  It includes your
subscription info and how to use it to change it or unsubscribe from a
list.

You can visit the URLs to change your membership status or
configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery
or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.

In addition to the URL interfaces, you can also use email to make such
changes.  For more info, send a message to the '-request' address of
the list (for example, mailman-request at choir.chs.chalmers.se)
containing just the word 'help' in the message body, and an email
message will be sent to you with instructions.

If you have questions, problems, comments, etc, send them to
mailman-owner at choir.chs.chalmers.se.  Thanks!



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Dec  4 17:37:42 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 08:37:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with mailman and qmail?
In-Reply-To: <78C3380FC84D724287837FD9A8EFC02FF7D1AA@vera.chs.chalmers.se>
Message-ID: <PC17402005120408374207348cfa1428@msapiro>

Kim Leandersson wrote:
>
>However, when the monthly reminder is sent out we (as postmaster) get
>the following (see below). Everywhere in the header we see
>mailman-bounces at plesk.chs.chalmers.se and not
>manskor-bounces at plesk.chs.chalmers.se. The problem also seems to be that
>mailman-bounces at plesk.chs.chalmers.se isn't accepting any mails.


You need to arrange aliases or whatever qmail uses to route mail to
Mailman so that mail to mailman(-*)@... gets routed to the mailman
list regardless of which domain it is sent to.


>Any hints on how to get the maillists to send bounces to
>MAILLIST_NAME-bounces at domain.tld? I've tried both searching the Internet
>and talking to the Plesk support without any luck so any help is deeply
>appreciated.


This is by design. Password reminders are sent from the site list
because the particular user may be a member of more than one list, in
which case, sending the reminder from the list would require a
reminder per list. In the current implementation, the reminder is sent
once per site/virtual-host for all lists that include that member.

If you are using virtual hosts, the sitelist name refers to the one
site list, but depending on context, the domain associated with the
site list can be any of the virtual host email domains. Thus they all
have to be deliverable.



>##################### .qmail-manskor-bounces
>###############################
>Plesk# .qmail-manskor-bounces 
>|/var/qmail/bin/preline /var/qmail/bin/mm_wrapper
>/var/mailman/mail/mailman bounces manskor


I understand this is how qmail does routing, but this routes bounces
for the 'manskor' list. Do you have similar routing for all the
addresses of the mailman (site) list. I.e. .qmail-mailman,
.qmail-mailman-bounces, etc., and if so, they have to be made to apply
to all domains that mailman serves.

Also see <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/qmail-issues.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Dec  4 18:14:34 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 09:14:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman-bounces error
In-Reply-To: <eca6b080512021218t65086484t49a1c0b0eb6064e8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512040914340984cb63615a@msapiro>

Andy Gao wrote in the OP:

>Reporting-MTA: dns; localhost.localdomain
>Arrival-Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 05:00:04 -0500
>
>Final-Recipient: RFC822; nui at abc.org <nuin at genedrift.org>
>Action: failed
>Status: 5.1.1
>Remote-MTA: DNS; abc.org
>Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550-Verification failed for
><mailman-bounces at localhost.localdomain>
><mailman-bounces at localhost.localdomain>
>Last-Attempt-Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 05:01:25 -0500
>
>
>=============================================
>I guess that is something wrong with my MTA configuration.

I don't think so, unless you really don't want it to verify sender
domains.

The date and time from the above messages indicate they refer to a
password reminders.

If VIRTUAL_HOSTS_OVERVIEW is on, password reminders are collected for
all users and lists and sent once for each user in lists in each
virtual domain, and they are sent from the site list bounce address
(mailman-bounces) @ the domain they come from. Otherwise, they are
sent from the site list bounces address @DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST.

So in your case, either VIRTUAL_HOSTS_OVERVIEW is off and
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST is localhost.localdomain in mm_cfg.py/Defaults.py
or VIRTUAL_HOSTS_OVERVIEW is on and you have at least one list with
members and with host_name = 'localhost.localdomain'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From sgarcia at bak.rr.com  Sun Dec  4 19:10:47 2005
From: sgarcia at bak.rr.com (Steve Garcia)
Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2005 10:10:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Exim mailman transport fails
Message-ID: <43933127.40902@bak.rr.com>

Hi,

I've set up my Exim4 and Mailman configuration largely as shown on
list.org at http://list.org/mailman-install

However, when I send a message to the list, I get the following in
exim's mainlog:

 mailman at helios.cs.csubak.edu R=mailman_router T=mailman_transport:
Child process of mailman_transport transport returned 2 from command:
/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman

I couldn't find anything in the docs about what command line options (if
any) the mailman executable might take, so I'm not sure how to
troubleshoot.  I don't know if there was a problem building the
executable or if it is a configuration problem.

I said I configured it *largely* as the docs say.  There were a couple
of differences.  The docs showed reciever verification like this:

accept  domains       = +local_domains
          endpass
          message       = unknown user
          verify

but my config file did not have the "message" line.   I didn't figure
this would make any real difference.

I tried to put the SMTP Callback stanza (secion 6.2.10 of the docs) into
my exim.conf, but this caused exim to barf.  Since I didn't understand
what it was doing, and hence how to fix it, I commented it out.  I got
the impression it was optional.  Was I wrong?

Does this sound like a configuration problem?  If so, where should I look?

Thanks!
Steve


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Dec  4 19:56:10 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 10:56:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Exim mailman transport fails
In-Reply-To: <43933127.40902@bak.rr.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512041056100702cb636028@msapiro>

Steve Garcia wrote:
>
>I've set up my Exim4 and Mailman configuration largely as shown on
>list.org at http://list.org/mailman-install
>
>However, when I send a message to the list, I get the following in
>exim's mainlog:
>
> mailman at helios.cs.csubak.edu R=mailman_router T=mailman_transport:
>Child process of mailman_transport transport returned 2 from command:
>/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman

A return status of 2 from the wrapper is a 'group mismatch error'.
configure, builds in an expected group, either by default or with the
--with-mail-gid= option, and Exim is not invoking the wrapper as that
group. The wrapper prints an error message to stderr, and 'hopes' that
the MTA returns this message in the delivery status notification.

The error message gives the expected and actual groups. In the absence
of an error message, you can generate and see one by running

/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post

This will produce the error and show the expected group as long as you
invoke it from some other group (note that the actual group in a
message generated this way is your group, not the one exim is using).

If you set the Exim mailman_transport per
http://list.org/mailman-install, it includes

  user = MAILMAN_USER
  group = MAILMAN_GROUP

and MAILMAN_GROUP is defined by macros you added. In particular

    # User and group for Mailman, should match your --with-mail-gid
    # switch to Mailman's configure script.
    MAILMAN_USER=mailman
    MAILMAN_GROUP=mailman

Note that it says these should match your --with-mail-gid switch, i.e.
they're not necessarily supposed to be 'mailman'.

Search the FAQ wizard <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> for
'group mismatch' (simple string, no quotes) for more info.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From bertha at yetta.net  Sun Dec  4 18:02:39 2005
From: bertha at yetta.net (Bertha)
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 12:02:39 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Membership reminder sent to non-subscriber
Message-ID: <20051204170239.GA1368@yetta.net>

I've got an odd problem, which I haven't found duplicated in the archives.  
A former subscriber to a mailing list unsubbed, but is still getting the 
monthly membership reminder notices.  I've checked to make sure he is, in 
fact, removed from the list membership (he is).  He isn't getting the list 
messages, just the monthly membership reminders.

Has anyone else encountered this problem, or know what might be causing 
it?  We're running version 2.1.5 on a Linux box (i686 
kernel ver. 2.4.21-27.0.4.EL).

-Bertha
-- 
No, nurse!  I said remove his SPECTACLES!


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Dec  4 21:36:59 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 12:36:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Membership reminder sent to non-subscriber
In-Reply-To: <20051204170239.GA1368@yetta.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512041236590577cb635fdc@msapiro>

Bertha wrote:

>I've got an odd problem, which I haven't found duplicated in the archives.  
>A former subscriber to a mailing list unsubbed, but is still getting the 
>monthly membership reminder notices.  I've checked to make sure he is, in 
>fact, removed from the list membership (he is).  He isn't getting the list 
>messages, just the monthly membership reminders.

Get a copy of the actual reminder notice which will say something like

Passwords for user at example.com:

List                                     Password // URL
----                                     --------  
list_name at other.example.com              xxxxxxxx 
http://www.other.example.com/mailman/options/list_name/user%40example.com

And verify that user at example.com is not a member of
list_name at other.example.com.

If you don't see user at example.com in the membership list, check for
possible similar garbled variants with something like

bin/list_members | grep 'likely pattern'

where 'likely pattern is things like 'user' or 'example.com'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Dec  4 21:40:28 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 12:40:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Membership reminder sent to non-subscriber
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200512041236590577cb635fdc@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512041240280077812f0c29@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>Get a copy of the actual reminder notice which will say something like
>
>Passwords for user at example.com:
>
>List                                     Password // URL
>----                                     --------  
>list_name at other.example.com              xxxxxxxx 
>http://www.other.example.com/mailman/options/list_name/user%40example.com
>
>And verify that user at example.com is not a member of
>list_name at other.example.com.
>
>If you don't see user at example.com in the membership list, check for
>possible similar garbled variants with something like
>
>bin/list_members | grep 'likely pattern'
>
>where 'likely pattern is things like 'user' or 'example.com'.


You can also use bin/find_member to see if a user is a member of any of
your lists.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From hugosthlm at yahoo.com  Mon Dec  5 06:36:25 2005
From: hugosthlm at yahoo.com (Hugo Hugo)
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 21:36:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/Htdig with Swedish, time problem
Message-ID: <20051205053626.55589.qmail@web54601.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi all !
   
  I am trying to make a Swedish version of the Htdig search features used with mailman. I have the mailman/Htdig patch. For some reason nightly_htdig sets the date in "lastrun" wrong. It is set in English, but I have set locale correctly in the configuration file to sv_SE.iso885915, so Htdig should know better. The dates mailman sets are correct. The mailman Htdig patch changes the setting of this date in Hyperarch.py. 
   
  Can someone say if this is a bug or if I have done something wrong ? Any idea of what could be wrong ?
   
  Cheers,
   
  Hugo

		
---------------------------------
 Yahoo! Personals
 Let fate take it's course directly to your email.
 See who's waiting for you Yahoo! Personals

From mcgredo at nps.edu  Mon Dec  5 06:45:12 2005
From: mcgredo at nps.edu (Don McGregor)
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 21:45:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving mailman to new host
Message-ID: <B007F078-1781-41BB-95B6-FE31789D3C06@nps.edu>

I'm moving my mailman installation to a new host. I backed
up and restored the /usr/local/mailman directory onto the
new host, and upgraded it from 2.1.4 to 2.1.6, plus all
the usual stuff with postfix.

When I point a web browser at the http://hostname/mailman/listinfo
cgi script on the new host I don't get a list of the known
mailing lists for the installation I just moved--the opening
page says "there are no publicly-advertised Mailman mailing
lists on [hostname]."

When I run list_lists from the command line I get a full list
of all the mailing lists. When I go to the known full URL
of the mailing lists I get the correct web page, eg
http://hostname/mailman/listinfo/myMailList works correctly.

What is the cgi script doing differently? Is it doing some sort
of hostname-keyed lookup of the mailing lists? And how can I
change it?



From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Dec  5 06:59:53 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 00:59:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving mailman to new host
In-Reply-To: <B007F078-1781-41BB-95B6-FE31789D3C06@nps.edu>
References: <B007F078-1781-41BB-95B6-FE31789D3C06@nps.edu>
Message-ID: <4393D759.4040005@yahoo.com>


Did the domainname change for the host?  If so, you might need to fix 
the URL for each list.   Check to make sure that DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and
DEFAULT_URL_HOST are defined properly in mm_cfg.py.  Then run this 
command for each list:

/usr/local/mailman/bin/withlist -l -r fix_url <list>

hth,

-Jim P.

Don McGregor wrote:
> I'm moving my mailman installation to a new host. I backed
> up and restored the /usr/local/mailman directory onto the
> new host, and upgraded it from 2.1.4 to 2.1.6, plus all
> the usual stuff with postfix.
> 
> When I point a web browser at the http://hostname/mailman/listinfo
> cgi script on the new host I don't get a list of the known
> mailing lists for the installation I just moved--the opening
> page says "there are no publicly-advertised Mailman mailing
> lists on [hostname]."
> 
> When I run list_lists from the command line I get a full list
> of all the mailing lists. When I go to the known full URL
> of the mailing lists I get the correct web page, eg
> http://hostname/mailman/listinfo/myMailList works correctly.
> 
> What is the cgi script doing differently? Is it doing some sort
> of hostname-keyed lookup of the mailing lists? And how can I
> change it?
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jimpop%40yahoo.com
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 


From mcgredo at nps.edu  Mon Dec  5 07:58:29 2005
From: mcgredo at nps.edu (Don McGregor)
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 22:58:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving mailman to new host
In-Reply-To: <4393D759.4040005@yahoo.com>
References: <B007F078-1781-41BB-95B6-FE31789D3C06@nps.edu>
	<4393D759.4040005@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1472F383-E18D-41B7-AFF0-EB69A179F7D9@nps.edu>


Yep, I had the DEFAULT_URL_HOST changed but hadn't
run the /usr/local/mailman/bin/withlist -l -r fix_url <list>
command. That fixed it.

On Dec 4, 2005, at 9:59 PM, Jim Popovitch wrote:

> DEFAULT_URL_HOST



From pmoss at fcg.com  Mon Dec  5 13:19:30 2005
From: pmoss at fcg.com (Moss, Patricia)
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 07:19:30 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Importing data
Message-ID: <30A2052826E26449AEEF1D745E38C75201CCCDD9@pant03.fcg.com>

I have mailman version 2.1.5-33 installed on a RedHat Linux ES4.0
server. I am running Apache version 2.0.52-9.

I am trying to figure out the correct procedure for importing data, from
L-Soft Listserv 1.8e, into my mailman installation.  Can someone point
me in the direction of some steps or procedures to get this done?
Thanks.

 

Pati Moss

Unix Systems Administrator

"UNIX is user friendly. It's just picky about who it's friends with."

  _____  

 

 

 

From: Moss, Patricia 
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 7:59 AM
To: 'mailman-users at python.org'
Subject: Migration Help

 

I have mailman version 2.1.5-33 installed on a RedHat Linux ES4.0
server. I now need to migrate my lists and archives from an NT4 server
running L-Soft Listserv 1.8e over to my mailman installation.

I have been searching the site and archives but am not finding
documentation that can assist me.  Can some help me to obtain the
documentation for this migration?  Thanks much.

 

Pati Moss

Unix Systems Administrator

"UNIX is user friendly. It's just picky about who it's friends with."

 



This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Dec  5 13:31:36 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 13:31:36 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Importing data
In-Reply-To: <30A2052826E26449AEEF1D745E38C75201CCCDD9@pant03.fcg.com>
References: <30A2052826E26449AEEF1D745E38C75201CCCDD9@pant03.fcg.com>
Message-ID: <p06200711bfb9e25ece3c@[10.0.1.210]>

At 7:19 AM -0500 2005-12-05, Moss, Patricia wrote:

>  I am trying to figure out the correct procedure for importing data, from
>  L-Soft Listserv 1.8e, into my mailman installation.  Can someone point
>  me in the direction of some steps or procedures to get this done?

	What kind of data?  Lists of subscribers?  Using the web admin 
interface, go to "Membership Management..." and then to "Mass 
Subscribe".  You can select a file to upload (with one subscriber 
e-mail address per line) or you can cut-n-paste that kind of 
information.

	Archives are imported in 7th edition "mbox" format, as described 
in the FAQ Wizard.

	Importing anything else is much more manual in nature.


	So far as I know, there are no tools that have been developed for 
the express purpose of importing Listserv format mailing lists into 
Mailman.  But, it shouldn't be too hard to write Python programs to 
do that, and the community would certainly welcome your efforts in 
this regard.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From pmoss at fcg.com  Mon Dec  5 13:41:22 2005
From: pmoss at fcg.com (Moss, Patricia)
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 07:41:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Importing data
Message-ID: <30A2052826E26449AEEF1D745E38C75201CCCDDB@pant03.fcg.com>

Brad,

 

            Thank you for the quick response.  I am going to attempt to
import a list of subscribers as well as the archives from my L-Soft
listserv application. I think I may manually add the list of
subscribers.  The archives will be a different story.  I am going to
have to figure out what format it comes out of listserv first; then
switch the format to mbox so that it can be added to mailman.

If you, or anyone else, has any insight into switching from listserv
format to mbox format that, too, would be appreciated.

 

Pati Moss

Unix Systems Administrator

"UNIX is user friendly. It's just picky about who it's friends with."

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Brad Knowles [mailto:brad at stop.mail-abuse.org] 
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 7:32 AM
To: Moss, Patricia
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Importing data

 

At 7:19 AM -0500 2005-12-05, Moss, Patricia wrote:

 

>  I am trying to figure out the correct procedure for importing data,
from

>  L-Soft Listserv 1.8e, into my mailman installation.  Can someone
point

>  me in the direction of some steps or procedures to get this done?

 

            What kind of data?  Lists of subscribers?  Using the web
admin 

interface, go to "Membership Management..." and then to "Mass 

Subscribe".  You can select a file to upload (with one subscriber 

e-mail address per line) or you can cut-n-paste that kind of 

information.

 

            Archives are imported in 7th edition "mbox" format, as
described 

in the FAQ Wizard.

 

            Importing anything else is much more manual in nature.

 

 

            So far as I know, there are no tools that have been
developed for 

the express purpose of importing Listserv format mailing lists into 

Mailman.  But, it shouldn't be too hard to write Python programs to 

do that, and the community would certainly welcome your efforts in 

this regard.

 

-- 

Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

 

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little

temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

 

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania

     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

 

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.

 



This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.


From sales at tocs.com.au  Mon Dec  5 14:04:20 2005
From: sales at tocs.com.au (Ross)
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 23:04:20 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Embedding variables in emails sent to Mailman
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAACSOsc6Ru6FMjtJD7Ul/6tjCgAAAEAAAAL/OdW5Ia39OvTPdiuSaTbABAAAAAA==@tocs.com.au>

Hi
 
I am setting up Mailman version 2.1.5p1
I have noticed in this new version there is a place for a Member name along
with the email address.
 
Is there a variable I can use in my email I post to the list to make use of
this member name ?
 
example.
 
Hi (Member Name)
 
and have Mailman insert their name for me.
 
Any help on this matter would be greatly appreciated.
 

Ross Bladin.


 


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec  5 17:37:41 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 08:37:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Importing data
In-Reply-To: <30A2052826E26449AEEF1D745E38C75201CCCDDB@pant03.fcg.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512050837410671be44d788@msapiro>

Moss, Patricia wrote:
>
>If you, or anyone else, has any insight into switching from listserv
>format to mbox format that, too, would be appreciated.

Assuming listserv cannot already export archives in mbox format, see

man formail

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec  5 17:55:56 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 08:55:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Embedding variables in emails sent to Mailman
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAACSOsc6Ru6FMjtJD7Ul/6tjCgAAAEAAAAL/OdW5Ia39OvTPdiuSaTbABAAAAAA==@tocs.com.au>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512050855560843be44d843@msapiro>

Ross wrote:
> 
>I am setting up Mailman version 2.1.5p1
>I have noticed in this new version there is a place for a Member name along
>with the email address.
> 
>Is there a variable I can use in my email I post to the list to make use of
>this member name ?
> 
>example.
> 
>Hi (Member Name)
> 
>and have Mailman insert their name for me.


No, Mailman won't do exactly that.

There are a couple of things you can do. They all require

OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes

in mm_cfg.py. Once this is set, the Non-digest options page will have
personalize settings for the list.

Full personalization will cause each user's message to be sent
To: Real Name <email at example.com>

Both 'yes' and 'full' personalization will allow use of %(user_name)s
in msg_header and msg_footer, but this has problems for inserting
something like 'Hi (Member Name)' at the start of the message body
because under some circumstances, msg_header can be a separate MIME
part. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.039.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From Darren.Young at ChicagoGSB.edu  Mon Dec  5 20:18:33 2005
From: Darren.Young at ChicagoGSB.edu (Young, Darren)
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 13:18:33 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Command line add admin?
Message-ID: <490F3E9EEF01B04598860AAB71777B4E2BF658@GSBEX.gsb.uchicago.edu>

Is there any way to add list admins from the command line?

-------------------------------------------------------------
| Darren Young              | http://www.chicagogsb.edu     |
| Senior UNIX Administrator | darren.young at chicagogsb.edu   |
| University of Chicago GSB | darren.young at gsb.uchicago.edu |
-------------------------------------------------------------


From Jon.Slater at LPBroadband.Net  Mon Dec  5 21:48:07 2005
From: Jon.Slater at LPBroadband.Net (Jon D. Slater)
Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 13:48:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Backup recommendations...
Message-ID: <4394A787.3000809@LPBroadband.Net>

So I've just implement a backup solution that uses "rsync" to backup my 
users accounts to a remote server (works great).

What should I be backing up from Mailman? 

Where do the MailMan files live?

And, in the event of a drive failure, can I just copy the files back 
from my backup machine?

Thanks in advance!

Jon


From william at rtrc.net  Mon Dec  5 23:29:23 2005
From: william at rtrc.net (Your Name)
Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 14:29:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] downloading my entire members list
Message-ID: <E1EjOpn-0005Yt-HT@madison.noc11.net>

Can someone tell me how to download my entire members list?  I read 
the FAQ 's and found nothing useful.  Of course, I may have missed it 
as well but I am confident that the mailman experts here will be able 
to point me in the right direction.  :)

Thanks,

W. Hill
-- 



From Darren.Young at ChicagoGSB.edu  Mon Dec  5 23:37:21 2005
From: Darren.Young at ChicagoGSB.edu (Young, Darren)
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 16:37:21 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] downloading my entire members list
Message-ID: <490F3E9EEF01B04598860AAB71777B4E2BF65C@GSBEX.gsb.uchicago.edu>

>From the command line you can use bin/list_members 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: 
> mailman-users-bounces+darren.young=chicagogsb.edu at python.org 
> [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+darren.young=chicagogsb.edu at pyth
> on.org] On Behalf Of Your Name
> Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 4:29 PM
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] downloading my entire members list
> 
> Can someone tell me how to download my entire members list?  I read 
> the FAQ 's and found nothing useful.  Of course, I may have missed it 
> as well but I am confident that the mailman experts here will be able 
> to point me in the right direction.  :)
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> W. Hill
> -- 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/darren.yo
> ung%40chicagogsb.edu
> 
> Security Policy: 
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq
> 01.027.htp
> 


From elvisfern at gmail.com  Mon Dec  5 23:48:41 2005
From: elvisfern at gmail.com (Elvis Fernandes)
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 14:48:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman install problems
Message-ID: <5b1c0dc50512051448j4d8acc75p43924407f6156ee@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I have been strugging all day to install mailman-2.1.6 on solaris8.

The configure goes thru successfully.
The make goes thru successfully.

When I do make install, it does a bunch of things and then I get the
following message:

Creating language directory /mailman/mailman/messages/tr/LC_MESSAGES
Creating language directory /mailman/mailman/messages/uk/LC_MESSAGES
Creating language directory /mailman/mailman/messages/zh_CN/LC_MESSAGES
Creating language directory /mailman/mailman/messages/zh_TW/LC_MESSAGES
for f in ./test*.py ./*Base.py; \
do \
    /opt/local/bin/install -c -m 644 $f /mailman/mailman/tests; \
        done
for f in ./onebounce.py ./fblast.py; \
do \
    /opt/local/bin/install -c -m 755 $f /mailman/mailman/tests; \
done
for d in bounces msgs; \
do \
    (cd $d; make DESTDIR= install); \
done
for f in ./*.txt; \
do \
    /opt/local/bin/install -c -m 644 $f /mailman/mailman/tests/bounces; \
done
for f in ./*.txt; \
do \
    /opt/local/bin/install -c -m 644 $f /mailman/mailman/tests/msgs; \
done
/opt/local/bin/python -c 'from compileall import *;
compile_dir("/mailman/mailman/Mailman")'
  File "<string>", line 1
    from
       ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
*** Error code 1
make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `doinstall'


Any idea why I am getting this error?

Regards
Elv


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Dec  6 03:09:50 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 18:09:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman install problems
In-Reply-To: <5b1c0dc50512051448j4d8acc75p43924407f6156ee@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512051809500640f155ff92@msapiro>

Elvis Fernandes wrote:
>/opt/local/bin/python -c 'from compileall import *;
>compile_dir("/mailman/mailman/Mailman")'
>  File "<string>", line 1
>    from
>       ^
>SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>*** Error code 1
>make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `doinstall'


Presumably your MUA split
>/opt/local/bin/python -c 'from compileall import *;
>compile_dir("/mailman/mailman/Mailman")'
It should be one line.

Your Python interpreter at /opt/local/bin/python doesn't seem to
recognize 'from'.

What happens if you interactively give the command

/opt/local/bin/python

and then in response to the '>>>' prompt, type

from compileall import *

If you get an error, something is seriously wrong with your Python
installation.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From elvisfern at gmail.com  Tue Dec  6 03:29:39 2005
From: elvisfern at gmail.com (Elvis Fernandes)
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 18:29:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman install problems
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200512051809500640f155ff92@msapiro>
References: <5b1c0dc50512051448j4d8acc75p43924407f6156ee@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200512051809500640f155ff92@msapiro>
Message-ID: <5b1c0dc50512051829n6a7728e5w6496d33ff078dcf2@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mark,

Thanks for responding.

I tried the following:

isd80{mailman}2:
isd80{mailman}2: /opt/local/bin/python
Python 2.2.2 (#1, Jun  5 2003, 12:34:45)
[GCC 3.2.1] on sunos5
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from compileall import *
>>>
>>>
>>> ^D
isd80{mailman}3:
isd80{mailman}3:


The python complier did not report any errors.

Regards
Elvis



On 12/5/05, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Elvis Fernandes wrote:
> >/opt/local/bin/python -c 'from compileall import *;
> >compile_dir("/mailman/mailman/Mailman")'
> >  File "<string>", line 1
> >    from
> >       ^
> >SyntaxError: invalid syntax
> >*** Error code 1
> >make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `doinstall'
>
>
> Presumably your MUA split
> >/opt/local/bin/python -c 'from compileall import *;
> >compile_dir("/mailman/mailman/Mailman")'
> It should be one line.
>
> Your Python interpreter at /opt/local/bin/python doesn't seem to
> recognize 'from'.
>
> What happens if you interactively give the command
>
> /opt/local/bin/python
>
> and then in response to the '>>>' prompt, type
>
> from compileall import *
>
> If you get an error, something is seriously wrong with your Python
> installation.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Dec  6 04:11:51 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 19:11:51 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman install problems
In-Reply-To: <5b1c0dc50512051829n6a7728e5w6496d33ff078dcf2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512051911510968be44d8bb@msapiro>

Elvis Fernandes wrote:
>
>I tried the following:
>
>isd80{mailman}2:
>isd80{mailman}2: /opt/local/bin/python
>Python 2.2.2 (#1, Jun  5 2003, 12:34:45)
>[GCC 3.2.1] on sunos5
>Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> from compileall import *
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ^D
>isd80{mailman}3:
>isd80{mailman}3:
>
>
>The python complier did not report any errors.


OK. That's good.


>On 12/5/05, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>>
>> Elvis Fernandes wrote:
>> >/opt/local/bin/python -c 'from compileall import *;
>> >compile_dir("/mailman/mailman/Mailman")'
>> >  File "<string>", line 1
>> >    from
>> >       ^
>> >SyntaxError: invalid syntax


It is acting as if there is white space between the "'" and "from". The
line in Makefile is

	$(PYTHON) -c 'from compileall import *;
compile_dir("$(DESTDIR)$(prefix)/Mailman")'

(above is folded, but it's all one line in Makefile) which becomes in
your case

/opt/local/bin/python -c 'from compileall import *;
compile_dir("/mailman/mailman/Mailman")'

(again folded). You could try just giving that command manually. I'm at
a loss to understand why it isn't working.

If the command above works manually, then 'make update' will finish the
job since that's all that's left from 'make install' after the above.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From elvisfern at gmail.com  Tue Dec  6 04:30:42 2005
From: elvisfern at gmail.com (Elvis Fernandes)
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 19:30:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman install problems
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200512051911510968be44d8bb@msapiro>
References: <5b1c0dc50512051829n6a7728e5w6496d33ff078dcf2@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200512051911510968be44d8bb@msapiro>
Message-ID: <5b1c0dc50512051930q23623d0dxd3d799077e227787@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mark,

I tried manually running:

isd80{mailman}8: /opt/local/bin/python -c 'from compileall import *;
compile_dir("/mailman/mailman/Mailman")'
  File "<string>", line 1
    from
       ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
isd80{mailman}9:

Still no go.

Elvis

On 12/5/05, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Elvis Fernandes wrote:
> >
> >I tried the following:
> >
> >isd80{mailman}2:
> >isd80{mailman}2: /opt/local/bin/python
> >Python 2.2.2 (#1, Jun  5 2003, 12:34:45)
> >[GCC 3.2.1] on sunos5
> >Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>>> from compileall import *
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ^D
> >isd80{mailman}3:
> >isd80{mailman}3:
> >
> >
> >The python complier did not report any errors.
>
>
> OK. That's good.
>
>
> >On 12/5/05, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> Elvis Fernandes wrote:
> >> >/opt/local/bin/python -c 'from compileall import *;
> >> >compile_dir("/mailman/mailman/Mailman")'
> >> >  File "<string>", line 1
> >> >    from
> >> >       ^
> >> >SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>
>
> It is acting as if there is white space between the "'" and "from". The
> line in Makefile is
>
>         $(PYTHON) -c 'from compileall import *;
> compile_dir("$(DESTDIR)$(prefix)/Mailman")'
>
> (above is folded, but it's all one line in Makefile) which becomes in
> your case
>
> /opt/local/bin/python -c 'from compileall import *;
> compile_dir("/mailman/mailman/Mailman")'
>
> (again folded). You could try just giving that command manually. I'm at
> a loss to understand why it isn't working.
>
> If the command above works manually, then 'make update' will finish the
> job since that's all that's left from 'make install' after the above.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From henry.cheung at avivasoft.com  Tue Dec  6 05:32:58 2005
From: henry.cheung at avivasoft.com (Henry Cheung)
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 12:32:58 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman & Tomcat
Message-ID: <24d705a0512052032g288eb601m5dbfdc58a0dc5833@mail.gmail.com>

 Hello all,

Anyone knows how to setup Mailman (2.1.6) with Tomcat (5)
(instead of Apache)?

Thanks

--Henry

From cosgrach at tsoft.com  Tue Dec  6 05:51:56 2005
From: cosgrach at tsoft.com (Michael E. Duffy)
Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 20:51:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Importing data from old mailman (unknown version)
 .db in to the current version (2.1.6)
Message-ID: <439518EC.5080401@tsoft.com>

Hi All,

I'm trying to import my old mailman files (specficically the users 
information) from my old install of mailman.  The data have been 
recovered from a failed disk, and I want to import it in to my new 2.1.6 
install.  The files in questions are:

config.db (old)   -->  config.pck (new)

Is there a simple way to do this?

Thanks in advance!

Cheers,
Michael Duffy


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Dec  6 07:12:38 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 22:12:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman install problems
In-Reply-To: <5b1c0dc50512051930q23623d0dxd3d799077e227787@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512052212380093308dc643@msapiro>

Elvis Fernandes wrote:
>
>I tried manually running:
>
>isd80{mailman}8: /opt/local/bin/python -c 'from compileall import *;
>compile_dir("/mailman/mailman/Mailman")'
>  File "<string>", line 1
>    from
>       ^
>SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>isd80{mailman}9:
>
>Still no go.

It seems something is wrong with Python or with the shell. I still have
no idea what, but try running it interactively. I.e.,

/opt/local/bin/python
...banner from python...
>>> from compileall import *
>>> compile_dir("/mailman/mailman/Mailman")



Actually, this whole step strictly isn't required as each module will
be compiled when first imported anyway, but pre-compiling will speed
up the initial operation of Mailman a bit.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From hugosthlm at yahoo.com  Tue Dec  6 07:14:06 2005
From: hugosthlm at yahoo.com (Hugo Hugo)
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 22:14:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Swedish version - "Next message:" is not translated
Message-ID: <20051206061406.8146.qmail@web54607.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi all !
   
  Another problem with the Swedish version. This concerns the "Next message" text shown when you display each mail in a Pipermail archive. This text is not translated. The text corresponding to "Previous message:", however, is correctly translated. Both texts seem correct in the Swedish translation file. The template file is Article.html, and the variable name is next_wsubj. The variable is set in Hyperarch.py and it is not obvious to me that it is set differently from prev_wsubj which is correctly translated.
   
  I run Mailman 2.1.5 on a Fedora core 2 installation.
   
  Can someone help me ?
   
  Cheers,
   
  Hugo

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From msapiro at value.net  Tue Dec  6 07:40:04 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 22:40:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Importing data from old mailman (unknown
	version).db in to the current version (2.1.6)
In-Reply-To: <439518EC.5080401@tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512052240040156f63ff760@msapiro>

Michael E. Duffy wrote:
>
>I'm trying to import my old mailman files (specficically the users 
>information) from my old install of mailman.  The data have been 
>recovered from a failed disk, and I want to import it in to my new 2.1.6 
>install.  The files in questions are:
>
>config.db (old)   -->  config.pck (new)
>
>Is there a simple way to do this?


Yes. There are two ways.

Way 1 - do not create the list. Manually create the lists/listname/
directory with proper ownership and permissions and put the old
config.db file in the directory. The first time you access the list,
Mailman will update/convert the config.db and save a config.pck (and
config.pck.last). You can then remove the config.db.

Drawbacks - no archives unless you also recover and restore those, and
maybe no archive directories either.

Way 2 - create the list. Then put the old config.db file in the
lists/listname/ directory AND (crucially important) remove the
config.pck and config.pck.last. Then when you access the list Mailman
will create the files as above and you can remove the config.db.

Again, archives need to be recovered separately, but at least the
directory structure will all be there.

Background - when Mailman (since 2.1) accesses a list, it looks for
config.pck, config.pck.last, config.db and config.db.last in that
order. The first good one it finds is what it uses. If it's not for
the current version, it does the best it can to convert the settings,
defaulting new ones, and then saves it as config.pck. config.pck.last
is the previous config.pck as a backup.

With either method, you'll want to go through the configuration after
conversion and make sure things are OK.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From william at rtrc.net  Tue Dec  6 12:38:32 2005
From: william at rtrc.net (William F. Hill, Jr.)
Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 06:38:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] downloading my entire members list
In-Reply-To: <E1EjOpn-0005Yt-HT@madison.noc11.net>
Message-ID: <0IR200HZOR34O2R6@vms046.mailsrvcs.net>

I am still trying to figure out how to download my entire member list.  Can
someone help me?

Coram Deo,

William F. Hill, Jr.
Member, Calvary Reformed Presbyterian Church, PCA
Hampton, VA. USA
http://www.rtrc.net
http://www.theparchment.org 


The Parchment 


-----Original Message-----
From: Your Name [mailto:william at rtrc.net] 
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 5:29 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] downloading my entire members list

Can someone tell me how to download my entire members list?  I read 
the FAQ 's and found nothing useful.  Of course, I may have missed it 
as well but I am confident that the mailman experts here will be able 
to point me in the right direction.  :)

Thanks,

W. Hill
-- 

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/william%40rtrc.net

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp






From eric at fox.phoenix.az.us  Tue Dec  6 13:11:56 2005
From: eric at fox.phoenix.az.us (Eric Fox)
Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 05:11:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] downloading my entire members list
In-Reply-To: <0IR200HZOR34O2R6@vms046.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <0IR200HZOR34O2R6@vms046.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <4395800C.8030807@fox.phoenix.az.us>

William F. Hill, Jr. wrote:
 >I am still trying to figure out how to download my entire member 
list.  Can
 >someone help me?
 >

I think what you want is the ~/mailman/bin/list_members command.  
Basically, if you give it the listname as a command line argument, it 
will dump all email addresses subscribed to that list.  Run the command 
without arguments to get help with syntax and option flags.

  /\---/\  Eric J Fox
 /  o o  \ http://fox.phoenix.az.us/
 \.\   /./ ---------------------------
    \@/    "Of course it runs NetBSD."  




From william at rtrc.net  Tue Dec  6 13:11:12 2005
From: william at rtrc.net (William F. Hill, Jr.)
Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 07:11:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] downloading my entire members list
In-Reply-To: <4395800C.8030807@fox.phoenix.az.us>
Message-ID: <0IR200IR8SLI6UR5@vms040.mailsrvcs.net>

Right...so how do I run that?

Coram Deo,

William F. Hill, Jr.
Member, Calvary Reformed Presbyterian Church, PCA
Hampton, VA. USA
http://www.rtrc.net
http://www.theparchment.org 


The Parchment 


-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Fox [mailto:eric at fox.phoenix.az.us] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 7:12 AM
To: William F. Hill, Jr.
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] downloading my entire members list

William F. Hill, Jr. wrote:
 >I am still trying to figure out how to download my entire member 
list.  Can
 >someone help me?
 >

I think what you want is the ~/mailman/bin/list_members command.  
Basically, if you give it the listname as a command line argument, it 
will dump all email addresses subscribed to that list.  Run the command 
without arguments to get help with syntax and option flags.

  /\---/\  Eric J Fox
 /  o o  \ http://fox.phoenix.az.us/
 \.\   /./ ---------------------------
    \@/    "Of course it runs NetBSD."  








From hermidio at gmail.com  Tue Dec  6 13:23:51 2005
From: hermidio at gmail.com (Hermidio A. Rodriguez Chavez)
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 07:23:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman error
Message-ID: <a30cbe2a0512060423y400522eco@mail.gmail.com>

friend's i have a new situation for you, i have installed a new
mailman, and when i try to see my list over the web, i receiving the
same error," No such list admins-list", when i try

[root at mail ~]# /usr/lib/mailman/bin/list_lists
3 Las siguientes listas de distribuci?n coinciden:
   Admins-list - [descripci?n no disponible]
       Mailman - [descripci?n no disponible]
       Windows - [descripci?n no disponible]

when i

[root at mail ~]# /usr/lib/mailman/bin/withlist -l -r fix_url Mailman
Importando fix_url...
Ejecutando fix_url.fix_url()...
Cargando la lista mailman (bloqueado)
Guardando la lista
Terminando
[root at mail ~]#

i have the same error again,

i have that configuration on my conf

DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mail.ipiscmg.rimed.cu'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'listas.ipiscmg.rimed.cu'


can you help me

--

Name: Hermidio A Rodriguez Chavez
Office: Computer System Admin
Email: hermidio at facimed.scu.sld.cu
Url: http://www.ecorp.mundopc.net


From eric at fox.phoenix.az.us  Tue Dec  6 13:29:09 2005
From: eric at fox.phoenix.az.us (Eric Fox)
Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 05:29:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] downloading my entire members list
In-Reply-To: <0IR200IR8SLI6UR5@vms040.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <0IR200IR8SLI6UR5@vms040.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <43958415.2050809@fox.phoenix.az.us>

William F. Hill, Jr. wrote:
 >Right...so how do I run that?
 >

Assuming you are the mailman administrator and have shell access to the 
system it's running on, you would logon to the box and simply run the 
command.  For example, if your list name was some_list, the command you 
would run would be:

  ~mailman/bin/list_members some_list

Which would spit out the list of all subscribed email addresses to the 
screen.  You could also use the '-o' argument to save the list in a file 
for ftp'ing or emailing elsewhere:

  ~mailman/bin/list_members -o addresses.txt some_list

If you need help regarding shell access to the mailman server, you may 
want to consider asking your Systems Administrator.  Alternatively, I'd 
be happy to answer a few questions off list.

  /\---/\  Eric J Fox
 /  o o  \ http://fox.phoenix.az.us/
 \.\   /./ ---------------------------
    \@/    "Of course it runs NetBSD."  





From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Tue Dec  6 13:34:33 2005
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 21:34:33 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Swedish version - "Next message:" is not
	translated
In-Reply-To: <20051206061406.8146.qmail@web54607.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20051206061406.8146.qmail@web54607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43958559.1040807@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Hugo Hugo wrote:
> Hi all !
>    
>   Another problem with the Swedish version. This concerns the "Next message" text shown when you display each mail in a Pipermail archive. This text is not translated. The text corresponding to "Previous message:", however, is correctly translated. Both texts seem correct in the Swedish translation file. The template file is Article.html, and the variable name is next_wsubj. The variable is set in Hyperarch.py and it is not obvious to me that it is set differently from prev_wsubj which is correctly translated.
>    
There are many 'fuzzy' marks in the Swedish message catalog. You should 
edit these marked translations and delete #,fuzzy lines.  Then do the 
make install again in the messages directory.

You may also contact the language champions to make these fix merged in 
the CVS (and next release). See: http://www.list.org/i18n.html

-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Dec  6 18:16:46 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 09:16:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Command line add admin?
In-Reply-To: <490F3E9EEF01B04598860AAB71777B4E2BF658@GSBEX.gsb.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512060916460843b9e11979@msapiro>

Young, Darren wrote:

>Is there any way to add list admins from the command line?

You can use bin/config_list with an input file that contains

mlist.owner.append('admin2 at example.com')

or the inputfile can be

owner = ['admin1 at example.com', 'admin2 at example.com']

The first form will add admin2 at example.com as an additional owner. The
second will replace the current owners with admin1 at example.com and
admin2 at example.com, so you would want to use bin/list_admins first to
find the current owners and make a list that includes the current and
new.

The first form adds one value, but it can be repeated on additional
lines to add more owners. The second form takes a list of as many ','
separated values as you want and can be continued as in

owner = ['admin1 at example.com',
 'admin2 at example.com',
 'admin3 at example.com']

The use of '()' and '[]' in the above is critical - they aren't
interchangeable. The name 'mlist' is literally that (it's used by
config_list). It is not replaced with the list name. The list name is
given as an option to the config_list command as always.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Dec  6 18:37:33 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 09:37:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman error
In-Reply-To: <a30cbe2a0512060423y400522eco@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512060937330093b9e1167e@msapiro>

Hermidio A. Rodriguez Chavez wrote:

>friend's i have a new situation for you, i have installed a new
>mailman, and when i try to see my list over the web, i receiving the
>same error," No such list admins-list", when i try
>
>[root at mail ~]# /usr/lib/mailman/bin/list_lists
>3 Las siguientes listas de distribuci?n coinciden:
>   Admins-list - [descripci?n no disponible]
>       Mailman - [descripci?n no disponible]
>       Windows - [descripci?n no disponible]
>
>when i
>
>[root at mail ~]# /usr/lib/mailman/bin/withlist -l -r fix_url Mailman
>Importando fix_url...
>Ejecutando fix_url.fix_url()...
>Cargando la lista mailman (bloqueado)
>Guardando la lista
>Terminando
>[root at mail ~]#


If this is going to help at all, it should probably be

/usr/lib/mailman/bin/withlist -l -r fix_url admins-list


>i have the same error again,
>
>i have that configuration on my conf
>
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mail.ipiscmg.rimed.cu'
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'listas.ipiscmg.rimed.cu'


I can't find an address for listas.ipiscmg.rimed.cu in DNS, although
that probably isn't your problem, it prevents me from trying.

What does

ls -l /usr/lib/mailman/lists/

(or wherever the var-prefix data are) show? In particular, are the
directory names all lower case as

  ...  admins-list
  ...  mailman
  ...  windows

and is the ownership and permissions the same? If you look in the
admins-list directory, is there a config.pck and config.pck.last with
ownership and permissions like the ones in mailman and windows?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Dec  6 19:04:23 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 10:04:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman error
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200512060937330093b9e1167e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512061004230828987e0e33@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>I can't find an address for listas.ipiscmg.rimed.cu in DNS, although
>that probably isn't your problem, it prevents me from trying.

Actually, I see I should have been trying mail.ipiscmg.rimed.cu, but I
couldn't find an address for that in DNS. There is an MX record for
listas.ipiscmg.rimed.cu, so it should be OK for receiving mail.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mcgredo at nps.edu  Wed Dec  7 01:34:23 2005
From: mcgredo at nps.edu (Don McGregor)
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 16:34:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pipermail archives to https
Message-ID: <CC20327F-B1D5-4AB3-9208-3B440C771FC8@nps.edu>

I want to move an existing installation over to an https
server of the same name.

Two questions:

1. I want the existing archives (eg links to attachments in the  
existing pipermail
archives) to point to https rather than http. If I just do a sed
script on archives/public/listname/*.txt to replace occurances
of http://mySiteName with https://mySiteName will that cause the
changes to ripple through to the  html?

2. Is there anything else to be alert for? I've changed the Defaults.py
entries to

Defaults.py:DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'
Defaults.py:PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'https://%(hostname)s/pipermail/% 
(listname)s'

so will new entries have the https from the start?




From tenant at tenant.net  Wed Dec  7 02:01:31 2005
From: tenant at tenant.net (Tenant)
Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 20:01:31 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] downloading my entire members list
In-Reply-To: <mailman.9790.1133915668.18700.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.9790.1133915668.18700.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20051206195220.02c62490@tenant.net>

At 07:34 PM 12/6/2005, you wrote:
>Can someone tell me how to download my entire members list?  I read
>the FAQ 's and found nothing useful.  Of course, I may have missed it
>as well but I am confident that the mailman experts here will be able
>to point me in the right direction.  :)

I get the impression the poster may not have shell access or command line 
knowledge, but in any case, here's what we do (and you can do the same 
thing for config_list info):

first, create a three line text file called lista-header (and listb-header, 
etc if needed):

From: admin at mydomain.com
To: admin at mydomain.com
Subject: Lista daily list

Now, in chron, add (use crontab -e as root):

#Every day, generate the member lists info

45 9 * * * /usr/lib/mailman/bin/list_members -f -o 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/lista.txt lista
46 9 * * * /usr/lib/mailman/bin/list_members -f -o 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/listb.txt listb

#Every day, send member lists to admin

50 9 * * * /bin/cat /usr/lib/mailman/bin/lista-header 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/lista.txt | /usr/sbin/sendmail -t
51 9 * * * /bin/cat /usr/lib/mailman/bin/listb-header 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/listb.txt | /usr/sbin/sendmail -t



From elvisfern at gmail.com  Wed Dec  7 02:09:40 2005
From: elvisfern at gmail.com (Elvis Fernandes)
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 17:09:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman install problems
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200512052212380093308dc643@msapiro>
References: <5b1c0dc50512051930q23623d0dxd3d799077e227787@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200512052212380093308dc643@msapiro>
Message-ID: <5b1c0dc50512061709v30d5fc90of6e894f552f88821@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mark,

Yes, that was a problem with my Python compiler.
I used another python compiler and I was successful.

Thanks!
Elvis


On 12/5/05, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Elvis Fernandes wrote:
> >
> >I tried manually running:
> >
> >isd80{mailman}8: /opt/local/bin/python -c 'from compileall import *;
> >compile_dir("/mailman/mailman/Mailman")'
> >  File "<string>", line 1
> >    from
> >       ^
> >SyntaxError: invalid syntax
> >isd80{mailman}9:
> >
> >Still no go.
>
> It seems something is wrong with Python or with the shell. I still have
> no idea what, but try running it interactively. I.e.,
>
> /opt/local/bin/python
> ...banner from python...
> >>> from compileall import *
> >>> compile_dir("/mailman/mailman/Mailman")
>
>
>
> Actually, this whole step strictly isn't required as each module will
> be compiled when first imported anyway, but pre-compiling will speed
> up the initial operation of Mailman a bit.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From lists at viplist.us  Wed Dec  7 03:25:56 2005
From: lists at viplist.us (Lloyd F. Tennison)
Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 18:25:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Auto responders - How to Ignore
Message-ID: <4395D7B4.10561.16C00C0@localhost>

I am getting over half of my Mailman messages returned with auto-
responders and naturally that is causing havoc with the bounce 
management features of Mailman.  Has anyone written and or fixed the 
bounce processors for Mailman so that they actually handle the most 
common "bounces" - the out of the office?  It is woefully lacking as is 
every single other auto-responder.  That being the most common return, 
how can we make Mailman work with them?

I get about 250,000 a week.








From hey_you at earthling.net  Wed Dec  7 05:15:50 2005
From: hey_you at earthling.net (Fernando Sabio)
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 23:15:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list privacy filter question
Message-ID: <007501c5fae4$e98e45f0$0901a8c0@vader>

Hi there, 
 
searched "list to list", etc and found no hits - sorry if this has been
asked and answered before... 
 
I work at a school and we're implementing the Mailman MLManager.
 
This is a "staff to parent" tool, so I think I've effectively limited the
ability of end users (parents) to post (I default 'all new users' to
moderated, and user posts are set to reject with a polite note reminding
them of the arrangement)  I then use a white-list of  "non-members" (school
staff) so they're the only folks who can post- plus i add one other 'special
account' - the latter entry   is the issue.
 
We have a list like this for each grade, and we also created one master list
known as "all_parents@<domain>" - the addressees in this list are the other
"to" addresses for the other six grade-specific lists.  (so,  class lists
have  ~ 80 emails of parents, the 'all_parents' list only has 6 members
"classof09-list, classof10-list" etc. ) 
 
I've used the name of the parent/master list as an approved sender on the
white-lists for the 6 sub-lists, but the list to list posts get
rejected/discarded -  so, how do i find out what value to add in the 'sub
lists' allow/white-list field so that this 'master' list can relay mail
to/through them?  Is it a variant of my hostname+domain-name,
mailman+domain-name, etc?    
 
Thanks,
 
Fernando


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Dec  7 05:18:24 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 20:18:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pipermail archives to https
In-Reply-To: <CC20327F-B1D5-4AB3-9208-3B440C771FC8@nps.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402005120620182409214a214051@msapiro>

Don McGregor wrote:
>
>1. I want the existing archives (eg links to attachments in the  
>existing pipermail
>archives) to point to https rather than http. If I just do a sed
>script on archives/public/listname/*.txt to replace occurances
>of http://mySiteName with https://mySiteName will that cause the
>changes to ripple through to the  html?


No. Changing the *.txt files won't have any side effects on any other
files, but see below.


>2. Is there anything else to be alert for? I've changed the Defaults.py
>entries to
>
>Defaults.py:DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'
>Defaults.py:PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'https://%(hostname)s/pipermail/% 
>(listname)s'
>
>so will new entries have the https from the start?


Now that you've changed the url patterns, You're almost there assuming
you have a archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file for each
list (You do unless you changed ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX to -1 or 0). Run

bin/arch --wipe listname

to rebuild the archives for each list. This will rerun the scrubber and
recreate links to attachments using the new patterns. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.003.htp>
for some caveats if you've ever edited the listname.mbox files.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Dec  7 05:41:53 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 20:41:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list privacy filter question
In-Reply-To: <007501c5fae4$e98e45f0$0901a8c0@vader>
Message-ID: <PC174020051206204153004607e2e4e3@msapiro>

Fernando Sabio wrote:
> 
>We have a list like this for each grade, and we also created one master list
>known as "all_parents@<domain>" - the addressees in this list are the other
>"to" addresses for the other six grade-specific lists.  (so,  class lists
>have  ~ 80 emails of parents, the 'all_parents' list only has 6 members
>"classof09-list, classof10-list" etc. ) 


So all_parents is what Mailman calls an umbrella list. It should be set
as such so that things like password reminders go to the various
classofnn-list-owner addresses instead of to the entire classofnn-list
address and hence to the entire list.

 
>I've used the name of the parent/master list as an approved sender on the
>white-lists for the 6 sub-lists, but the list to list posts get
>rejected/discarded -  so, how do i find out what value to add in the 'sub
>lists' allow/white-list field so that this 'master' list can relay mail
>to/through them?  Is it a variant of my hostname+domain-name,
>mailman+domain-name, etc?    


It depends on how you validate membership. If you have not set
USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER in mm_cfg.py, the sender of the post is the
address in the From: header of the post which is the original poster
unless the all-parents list is anonymous in which case, the From: is
all-parents at ...

If you have set USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER = Yes in mm_cfg.py, then the sender
that's used will be all-parents-bounces at ... in the case of posts that
come from the all-parents list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From andrew at cnet.org  Wed Dec  7 18:46:29 2005
From: andrew at cnet.org (Andrew Steele)
Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 17:46:29 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 403 Forbidden - You don't have permission to access
	/pipermail/
Message-ID: <43971FF5.5933.11AE82D@andrew.cnet.org>

I have discovered that our mailman installation returns a 403 
Forbidden error when trying to access archives from the web pages.

The links all point, correctly, to 
http://airedale.cnet.org/pipermail/list_name

Accessing that URL returns a message stating:

Forbidden

You don't have permission to access /pipermail/list_name on this 
server.

If I, instead, access the URL http://airedale.cnet.org/pipermail/ a 
directory listing is displayed showing the archive files by name.

I have checked that the archives are set to be public.

Is there a setting I need to add to a configuration somewhere that 
someone can point me to?  I have seen a similar question posed in the 
list archives but not seen any pointer to a solution.

Andrew



From haack at nclack.k12.or.us  Wed Dec  7 19:45:14 2005
From: haack at nclack.k12.or.us (Robert Haack)
Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 10:45:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing multiple lists via withlist
Message-ID: <43972DBA.2000009@nclack.k12.or.us>

I have over 120 lists for which I need to make a couple of changes to
the config files.  I don't really want to do this manually and I have
very limited Python experience.  I believe from what I've seen that
withlist is my best option but I could be wrong.  The two things I want
to change are:

1) Change the message footer for non digest option.
2) I also have the need to add/remove email addresses in "List of
non-member addresses whose postings should be automatically accepted"
section Privacy Options - Sender Filters.

I looked in the FAQ and searched the archives but I did not see anything
like what I'm looking for.

Does anybody have some similar examples that they could share with me or
perhaps point me to another web site that would help with this?

Thank You

-- 
Robert Haack
Programmer Analyst
North Clackamas School District #12
haack at nclack.k12.or.us



From elvisfern at gmail.com  Wed Dec  7 22:17:56 2005
From: elvisfern at gmail.com (Elvis Fernandes)
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 13:17:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Undeliverable mail
Message-ID: <5b1c0dc50512071317m6d16d795la4e6e872401ca96c@mail.gmail.com>

When I send an email to the mail list unix_sysadmin, I get the following
msg:

Your message was not delivered to the following recipients:

unix_sysadmin at utc80.am.com: <unix_sysadmin at utc80.am.necel.com:> 550
5.7.1 <unix_sysadmin at utc80.am.com>
<unix_sysadmin at utc80.am.necel.com>... Relaying denied

Howevre, when I login to the above mailman server box "utc80" and send
an email to unix_sysadmin, I do receive the email.

Could someone tell me what is going on, and how I could fix it?

Thanks
Elvis Fernandes


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec  8 00:45:00 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 15:45:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Undeliverable mail
In-Reply-To: <5b1c0dc50512071317m6d16d795la4e6e872401ca96c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005120715450001566abcbf1c@msapiro>

Elvis Fernandes wrote:

>When I send an email to the mail list unix_sysadmin, I get the following
>msg:
>
>Your message was not delivered to the following recipients:
>
>unix_sysadmin at utc80.am.com: <unix_sysadmin at utc80.am.necel.com:> 550
>5.7.1 <unix_sysadmin at utc80.am.com>
><unix_sysadmin at utc80.am.necel.com>... Relaying denied
>
>Howevre, when I login to the above mailman server box "utc80" and send
>an email to unix_sysadmin, I do receive the email.
>
>Could someone tell me what is going on, and how I could fix it?

The MTA that originated that message is being asked to deliver a
message received from a source outside its local domain to a
destination also outside it's local domain and has been configured not
to allow that.

This is an MTA configuration issue (or perhaps a DNS issue or possibly
Mailman using a non-local outgoing MTA issue). It is not clear to me
whether Mailman is even involved here. Does this message come on
attempt to post that doesn't even reach the list or an attempt to
deliver from the list?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From elvisfern at gmail.com  Thu Dec  8 04:01:06 2005
From: elvisfern at gmail.com (Elvis Fernandes)
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 19:01:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Undeliverable mail
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005120715450001566abcbf1c@msapiro>
References: <5b1c0dc50512071317m6d16d795la4e6e872401ca96c@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402005120715450001566abcbf1c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <5b1c0dc50512071901i748d07a7g358f9717a6be1032@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mark,

You are right, it is a domain problem.
Thanks for looking.

Regards
Elvis


On 12/7/05, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Elvis Fernandes wrote:
>
> >When I send an email to the mail list unix_sysadmin, I get the following
> >msg:
> >
> >Your message was not delivered to the following recipients:
> >
> >unix_sysadmin at utc80.am.com: <unix_sysadmin at utc80.am.necel.com:> 550
> >5.7.1 <unix_sysadmin at utc80.am.com>
> ><unix_sysadmin at utc80.am.necel.com>... Relaying denied
> >
> >Howevre, when I login to the above mailman server box "utc80" and send
> >an email to unix_sysadmin, I do receive the email.
> >
> >Could someone tell me what is going on, and how I could fix it?
>
> The MTA that originated that message is being asked to deliver a
> message received from a source outside its local domain to a
> destination also outside it's local domain and has been configured not
> to allow that.
>
> This is an MTA configuration issue (or perhaps a DNS issue or possibly
> Mailman using a non-local outgoing MTA issue). It is not clear to me
> whether Mailman is even involved here. Does this message come on
> attempt to post that doesn't even reach the list or an attempt to
> deliver from the list?
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec  8 00:23:19 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 15:23:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 403 Forbidden - You don't have permission to
	access/pipermail/
In-Reply-To: <43971FF5.5933.11AE82D@andrew.cnet.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512071523190312281885cb@msapiro>

Andrew Steele wrote:

>I have discovered that our mailman installation returns a 403 
>Forbidden error when trying to access archives from the web pages.
>
>The links all point, correctly, to 
>http://airedale.cnet.org/pipermail/list_name
>
>Accessing that URL returns a message stating:
>
>Forbidden
>
>You don't have permission to access /pipermail/list_name on this 
>server.

Most likely, you haven't told your web server that it is OK to follow
symlinks in this directory.

E.g. in Apache you may have something like

  Alias /pipermail/ /var/mailman/archives/public/

You also need

  <Directory /var/mailman/archives>
          Options +FollowSymlinks
  </Directory>

To allow symlinks to be followed anywhere in the archives (there is
also one in the monthly archive linking index.html to thread.html).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec  8 01:46:22 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 16:46:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing multiple lists via withlist
In-Reply-To: <43972DBA.2000009@nclack.k12.or.us>
Message-ID: <PC17402005120716462206876abcc145@msapiro>

Robert Haack wrote:

>I have over 120 lists for which I need to make a couple of changes to
>the config files.  I don't really want to do this manually and I have
>very limited Python experience.  I believe from what I've seen that
>withlist is my best option but I could be wrong.  The two things I want
>to change are:
>
>1) Change the message footer for non digest option.
>2) I also have the need to add/remove email addresses in "List of
>non-member addresses whose postings should be automatically accepted"
>section Privacy Options - Sender Filters.


Both these tasks are amenable to a withlist --all solution IF you want
the resulatant footer to be the same on all 120 lists and if you want
either the same accept_these_nonmembers result or the same additions
and deletions on all 120 lists.


>I looked in the FAQ and searched the archives but I did not see anything
>like what I'm looking for.
>
>Does anybody have some similar examples that they could share with me or
>perhaps point me to another web site that would help with this?


If you know Python, the examples in withlist --help and in the archives
of this list are probably enough. If you don't know Python, probably
nothing short of a specific solution will do.

Here's something off the top of my head, untested even for syntax
errors and no warranty.

-----------------start of ListMods.py----------------
def new_footer(mlist):
    mlist.Lock()
    mlist.msg_footer = """___________________________________
line after underscore line above
next line
last line
"""
    mlist.Save()
    mlist.Unlock()

def add_accept(mlist, user):
    mlist.Lock()
    if user in mlist.accept_these_nonmembers:
        print "%s: %s already in accept_these_nonmembers" % (
               mlist.real_name, user)
    else:
        mlist.accept_these_nonmembers.append(user)
    mlist.Save()
    mlist.Unlock()

def del_accept(mlist, user):
    mlist.Lock()
    if user in mlist.accept_these_nonmembers:
       del mlist.accept_these_nonmembers[
            mlist.accept_these_nonmembers.index(user)]
    else:
        print "%s: %s not in accept_these_nonmembers" % (
               mlist.real_name, user)
    mlist.Save()
    mlist.Unlock()
-----------------------end of ListMods.py--------------

Save ListMods.py in bin/  Then to set the above msg_footer in all
lists, run

bin/withlist --all --run ListMods.new_footer

to add x at example.com to all list's accept_these_nonmembers, run

bin/withlist --all --run ListMods.add_accept x at example.com

To delete y at example.com from all list's accept_these_nonmembers, run

bin/withlist --all --run ListMods.del_accept y at example.com

You could also define a new_accept(mlist) function to simply assign a
list of addresses to mlist.accept_these_nonmembers analagous to the
new_footer function except with a list of addresses instead of a
multiline string.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From carbonnb at gmail.com  Thu Dec  8 01:26:45 2005
From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 19:26:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 403 Forbidden - You don't have permission to
	access /pipermail/
In-Reply-To: <43971FF5.5933.11AE82D@andrew.cnet.org>
References: <43971FF5.5933.11AE82D@andrew.cnet.org>
Message-ID: <e04a6c920512071626g7fcc22f2q@mail.gmail.com>

On 07/12/05, Andrew Steele <andrew at cnet.org> wrote:
> I have discovered that our mailman installation returns a 403
> Forbidden error when trying to access archives from the web pages.
>
> The links all point, correctly, to
> http://airedale.cnet.org/pipermail/list_name
>
> Accessing that URL returns a message stating:
>
> Forbidden
>
> You don't have permission to access /pipermail/list_name on this
> server.
>
> If I, instead, access the URL http://airedale.cnet.org/pipermail/ a
> directory listing is displayed showing the archive files by name.
>
> I have checked that the archives are set to be public.
>
> Is there a setting I need to add to a configuration somewhere that
> someone can point me to?  I have seen a similar question posed in the
> list archives but not seen any pointer to a solution.

Check the directory permissions. Full details can be found at
http://list.org/mailman-install/node9.html in the Warning box.

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well
preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
shouting "What a great ride!"


From manuelk at fibertel.com.ar  Thu Dec  8 17:10:35 2005
From: manuelk at fibertel.com.ar (Manuel Kissoyan)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 13:10:35 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman going down
Message-ID: <028301c5fc12$13cead90$6401a8c0@sarna>

Hi,

hope someone could help me...

i have a server running mailman, one of our clients were having problems, every week his mailing list were going down, we checked everything and we have found nothing, the rest of the accounts mailing lists wrer running without problem.
So we decided move him to another server, note this server never had any mailman problem, now after a week we moved him his mailing list gone down again, could any corruption in his mailing list cause this? I havent found any error that show me what is the exact problem in the logs.
Anyone had this problem before? any solution?

Thank you in advance!


From smielke at famsi.org  Thu Dec  8 17:40:36 2005
From: smielke at famsi.org (smielke at famsi.org)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 11:40:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Listserv
Message-ID: <003001c5fc16$1e039b00$2901a8c0@famsi12>

Can Mailman and LSoft's Listserv work concurrently on a webserver??

From caylan at aero.und.edu  Thu Dec  8 18:10:05 2005
From: caylan at aero.und.edu (Caylan Van Larson)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 11:10:05 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] High usage -- making Mailman "nice"
Message-ID: <118E6331-6307-4825-B2E9-75FF9D7D37CD@aero.und.edu>

Morning,

We're running MM v2.1.4-4, we're experiencing such high usage on our  
dual xeon server when mailman sends to 4000 users that port 25  
becomes unresponsive.  is there a way to "nice" the mailman delivery?

Caylan


From jdennis at redhat.com  Thu Dec  8 19:12:55 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 13:12:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] High usage -- making Mailman "nice"
In-Reply-To: <118E6331-6307-4825-B2E9-75FF9D7D37CD@aero.und.edu>
References: <118E6331-6307-4825-B2E9-75FF9D7D37CD@aero.und.edu>
Message-ID: <1134065575.18809.5.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Thu, 2005-12-08 at 11:10 -0600, Caylan Van Larson wrote: 
> Morning,
> 
> We're running MM v2.1.4-4, we're experiencing such high usage on our  
> dual xeon server when mailman sends to 4000 users that port 25  
> becomes unresponsive.  is there a way to "nice" the mailman delivery?

It sounds like your MTA is inefficient in some manner, is not a huge
load for a dual server backed with a high bandwith connection. How many
client connections can it simultaneously handle? Any chance you've got
DNS delays (especially reverse lookup)?

There are ways to control how many recipients are sent in each SMTP
transaction. SMTP_MAX_RCPT = 500 is the default in mailman, defined in
Defaults.py, overridden in mm_cfg.py

If your MTA can only handle one, or a small number of client connections
then each connection will be busy handling SMTP_MAX_RCPTS and other
client connections will queue up. If you have 4,000 recipients then you
have the potential to tie up 8 SMTP client connections. If you raise
SMTP_MAX_RCPTS you may exceed your MTA's limit on number of recipients,
but you'll consume few connections increasing the pool of available
connections. If you lower it you'll increase the total connections
needed, but your MTA should take connections round robin allowing other
to jump in. By all means verify how many client connections your SMTP
can handle.

If you have VERP or personalization turned on mailman will have to
initiate one SMTP transaction per recipient (are these features turned
on?). This is inefficient because there is one recipient per SMTP
connection. It will take the SMTP much longer to process because of the
higher overhead, but on the other hand there should be plenty of
opportunity for other clients to obtain a connection from the SMTP
connection pool because mailman will cycle through connections in a
serial manner leaving the rest of the SMTP client connection pool
available for other SMTP clients.

HTH,
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From psk at informatik.rwth-aachen.de  Thu Dec  8 18:38:22 2005
From: psk at informatik.rwth-aachen.de (Peter Schneider-Kamp)
Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 18:38:22 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Listserv
In-Reply-To: <003001c5fc16$1e039b00$2901a8c0@famsi12>
References: <003001c5fc16$1e039b00$2901a8c0@famsi12>
Message-ID: <43986F8E.5070708@informatik.rwth-aachen.de>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

smielke at famsi.org wrote:
> Can Mailman and LSoft's Listserv work concurrently on a webserver??

Yes, if you manually adminstrate /etc/mail/aliases it should work.

We have such an installation which has been running for approximately
1 year now without any problems. We are migrating the Listserv
lists slowly (and semi-transparently to the users) to Mailman.

Kind regards,
Peter

- --
Peter Schneider-Kamp   mailto:psk at informatik.rwth-aachen.de
LuFG Informatik II     http://www-i2.informatik.rwth-aachen.de/~nowonder
RWTH Aachen            phone: ++49 241 80-21211
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFDmG+O3VbrCXkKHhwRAvB0AKCQkGGpz9nJ+bLvWLMYE2su7Gsc+wCdEd/D
faPETvA5yg7Rs+tumv9LEok=
=jTcs
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From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Dec  8 19:49:21 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 19:49:21 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] High usage -- making Mailman "nice"
In-Reply-To: <1134065575.18809.5.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
References: <118E6331-6307-4825-B2E9-75FF9D7D37CD@aero.und.edu>
	<1134065575.18809.5.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
Message-ID: <p0620074dbfbe2c111595@[10.0.1.210]>

At 1:12 PM -0500 2005-12-08, John Dennis wrote:

>>  We're running MM v2.1.4-4, we're experiencing such high usage on our
>>  dual xeon server when mailman sends to 4000 users that port 25
>>  becomes unresponsive.  is there a way to "nice" the mailman delivery?
>
>  It sounds like your MTA is inefficient in some manner, is not a huge
>  load for a dual server backed with a high bandwith connection. How many
>  client connections can it simultaneously handle? Any chance you've got
>  DNS delays (especially reverse lookup)?

	They could also be doing all sorts of 
authentication/authorization or anti-spam/anti-virus checks on their 
outgoing mail.

	It is clearly stated in the FAQ that this is generally a bad idea 
for outgoing mail from the mailing list, since all that stuff should 
have been checked on the way in.


	The OP would be well-served to go to the Mailman FAQ Wizard at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> and search for 
"performance", and read all the related FAQ entries.  If you go down 
that list, I bet you'll find the problem and be able to relatively 
easily fix it.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From paul.williams at uwex.edu  Thu Dec  8 21:04:05 2005
From: paul.williams at uwex.edu (Paul Williams)
Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 14:04:05 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop sendmail from spewing messages one it
	starts?
Message-ID: <439891B5.1000506@uwex.edu>

I just ran into 2 problems.

1).   A user added a large number of subscribers by uploading
      an Excel spreadsheet.  Mailman accepted the file and 
      addresses appeared reasonable when viewed with IE but
      not so good with mozilla (each alpha char was followed by
      a box).   I was able to remove the names using the 
      remove_members command by removing all members.

      It seems that it might be a good check when importing a
      list of users, for mailman to make sure it is a text file
      so users don't mess things up inadvertantly.

2).   The second problem that developed is that the user has
      set notification on subscribing to yes and so she and
      her boss bere getting several thousand emails.
      I finally had to completely delete the list.
      Is there a better way to tell mailman to stop sending email
      from a specific list?   If that is possible, I have not
      bumped into an explanation how mailman works so I would
      be able to stop it sending emails.

Thanks in advance.

paulw


From smielke at famsi.org  Thu Dec  8 21:58:13 2005
From: smielke at famsi.org (smielke at famsi.org)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 15:58:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how many mailman subscribers?
Message-ID: <009601c5fc3a$1ad33840$2901a8c0@famsi12>

How many users (subscribers) can Mailman handle? It's been suggested to me that if you have over 1500 users, that one should consider using L-Soft's Listserv.  Can anyone comment on there experience with Mailman and how many users it can handle?

Thank you,
Sandy


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Dec  8 22:30:18 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 22:30:18 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how many mailman subscribers?
In-Reply-To: <009601c5fc3a$1ad33840$2901a8c0@famsi12>
References: <009601c5fc3a$1ad33840$2901a8c0@famsi12>
Message-ID: <p06200754bfbe562ff4c6@[10.0.1.210]>

At 3:58 PM -0500 2005-12-08, <smielke at famsi.org> wrote:

>  How many users (subscribers) can Mailman handle? It's been suggested to
>  me that if you have over 1500 users, that one should consider using
>  L-Soft's Listserv.  Can anyone comment on there experience with Mailman
>  and how many users it can handle?

	See the Mailman FAQ Wizard.  In short, it can easily handle over 
100,000 users, on the right machine with the right hardware and 
software configuration, depending on their communication traffic 
patterns.

	But there's a lot more info on this subject in the FAQ.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From cpz at tuunq.com  Thu Dec  8 22:15:26 2005
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 13:15:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how many mailman subscribers?
In-Reply-To: <009601c5fc3a$1ad33840$2901a8c0@famsi12> from "smielke@famsi.org"
	at "Dec 8, 2005 03:58:13 pm"
Message-ID: <20051208211526.CB0F77AE@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, smielke at famsi.org wrote:
> How many users (subscribers) can Mailman handle? It's been suggested to 
>me that if you have over 1500 users, that one should consider using L-Soft's
>Listserv.  Can anyone comment on there experience with Mailman and how many 
>users it can handle?


> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
which points to:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.015.htp
"The largest list reported to date had around 147,000 members."

z!


From manuelk at fibertel.com.ar  Thu Dec  8 23:11:53 2005
From: manuelk at fibertel.com.ar (Manuel Kissoyan)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 19:11:53 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman going down
Message-ID: <042701c5fc44$95597250$6401a8c0@sarna>


Just in case if this could help, loged in in SSH it showing:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main
    qrunner.run()
  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 70, in run
    filecnt = self._oneloop()
  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 99, in _oneloop
    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 143, in dequeue
    fp = open(filename)
IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/qfiles/virgin/1134077045.176533+00632c22397f1e7b8c7b1fc80c3166dcdb1227b3.pck'
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main
    qrunner.run()
  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 70, in run
    filecnt = self._oneloop()
  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 99, in _oneloop
    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 143, in dequeue
    fp = open(filename)
IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/qfiles/virgin/1134077045.1850851+93896ccb37d9ab56c7998fabb25e9b07753442b0.pck'
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main
    qrunner.run()
  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 70, in run
    filecnt = self._oneloop()
  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 99, in _oneloop
    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 143, in dequeue
    fp = open(filename)
IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/qfiles/virgin/1134078407.852843+25bf1628f39825092d0533d5b51921d94daad16b.pck'


Thank you!


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Manuel Kissoyan 
  To: mailman mailing list 
  Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 1:10 PM
  Subject: mailman going down


  Hi,

  hope someone could help me...

  i have a server running mailman, one of our clients were having problems, every week his mailing list were going down, we checked everything and we have found nothing, the rest of the accounts mailing lists wrer running without problem.
  So we decided move him to another server, note this server never had any mailman problem, now after a week we moved him his mailing list gone down again, could any corruption in his mailing list cause this? I havent found any error that show me what is the exact problem in the logs.
  Anyone had this problem before? any solution?

  Thank you in advance!


From elvisfern at gmail.com  Thu Dec  8 23:14:36 2005
From: elvisfern at gmail.com (Elvis Fernandes)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 14:14:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to create new mail list from browser.
Message-ID: <5b1c0dc50512081414r2d212a2bj11733dfaa302a888@mail.gmail.com>

I am trying to create a new mail list thru the web browser interface.
The list contents are the same as the mailman list, only this list name is
different.

I get the following msg on the web browser:
Error: You are not authorized to create new mailing lists.

I am able to create this new mail list using the command line newlist
Could someone tell me what is going on?

Regards
Elvis


From caylan at aero.und.edu  Thu Dec  8 23:24:46 2005
From: caylan at aero.und.edu (Caylan Van Larson)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 16:24:46 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] High usage -- making Mailman "nice"
In-Reply-To: <p0620074dbfbe2c111595@[10.0.1.210]>
References: <118E6331-6307-4825-B2E9-75FF9D7D37CD@aero.und.edu>
	<1134065575.18809.5.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
	<p0620074dbfbe2c111595@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <1B1BB7E6-361F-4ACB-9F9A-2F02AE0D28A1@aero.und.edu>

On Dec 8, 2005, at 12:49 PM, Brad Knowles wrote:

> At 1:12 PM -0500 2005-12-08, John Dennis wrote:
>
>>>  We're running MM v2.1.4-4, we're experiencing such high usage on  
>>> our
>>>  dual xeon server when mailman sends to 4000 users that port 25
>>>  becomes unresponsive.  is there a way to "nice" the mailman  
>>> delivery?
>>
>>  It sounds like your MTA is inefficient in some manner, is not a huge
>>  load for a dual server backed with a high bandwith connection.  
>> How many
>>  client connections can it simultaneously handle? Any chance  
>> you've got
>>  DNS delays (especially reverse lookup)?
>
> 	They could also be doing all sorts of authentication/authorization  
> or anti-spam/anti-virus checks on their outgoing mail.
>
> 	It is clearly stated in the FAQ that this is generally a bad idea  
> for outgoing mail from the mailing list, since all that stuff  
> should have been checked on the way in.

Thanks for all those that responded.  After thinking about this for a  
bit, we realized that we were using a content-filter in postfix to  
divert all incoming port 25 to a barracuda spam appliance.  This was  
then coming back in 10027 for delivery.

To further amplify the problem, /home is NFS mounted... which means,  
lots of network IO.

Here are the changes we made.

mm_cfg.py
	SMTP_MAX_RCPT = 2000
	SMTPPORT=10027

main.cf
	smtpd_recipient_limit = 1000
	default_process_limit = 150

Thanks,

Caylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  9 02:19:29 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 17:19:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman going down
In-Reply-To: <042701c5fc44$95597250$6401a8c0@sarna>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512081719290562f0fccf8f@msapiro>

Manuel Kissoyan wrote:
>
>Just in case if this could help, loged in in SSH it showing:
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ?
>    main()
>  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main
>    qrunner.run()
>  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 70, in run
>    filecnt = self._oneloop()
>  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 99, in _oneloop
>    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
>  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 143, in dequeue
>    fp = open(filename)
>IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/qfiles/virgin/1134077045.176533+00632c22397f1e7b8c7b1fc80c3166dcdb1227b3.pck'
<snipped two more similar tracebacks>

It is unlikely that this is related to your problem below. This is
saying a queue entry for a Mailman generated message (not a list post,
but something like an owner notification or some other message created
by Mailman) was processed and is now being removed from the queue, but
it was already removed. Are multiple sets of Qrunners running?

See below for more.


>  i have a server running mailman, one of our clients were having problems, every week his mailing list were going down, we checked everything and we have found nothing, the rest of the accounts mailing lists wrer running without problem.
>  So we decided move him to another server, note this server never had any mailman problem, now after a week we moved him his mailing list gone down again, could any corruption in his mailing list cause this? I havent found any error that show me what is the exact problem in the logs.
>  Anyone had this problem before? any solution?


What do you mean by "going down"? What are the specific symptoms? What
do you do to "bring it back up"?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  9 02:30:49 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 17:30:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration Help
In-Reply-To: <30A2052826E26449AEEF1D745E38C75201CCCDB1@pant03.fcg.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512081730490500f0fccf65@msapiro>

Pati Moss wrote:

>I have mailman version 2.1.5-33 installed on a RedHat Linux ES4.0
>server. I now need to migrate my lists and archives from an NT4 server
>running L-Soft Listserv 1.8e over to my mailman installation.
>
>I have been searching the site and archives but am not finding
>documentation that can assist me.  Can some help me to obtain the
>documentation for this migration?  Thanks much.

See
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2005-November/018297.html>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  9 02:43:25 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 17:43:25 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] High usage -- making Mailman "nice"
In-Reply-To: <1B1BB7E6-361F-4ACB-9F9A-2F02AE0D28A1@aero.und.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512081743250234f0fcce43@msapiro>

Caylan Van Larson wrote:
>
>Here are the changes we made.
>
>mm_cfg.py
>	SMTP_MAX_RCPT = 2000
>	SMTPPORT=10027
>
>main.cf
>	smtpd_recipient_limit = 1000
>	default_process_limit = 150
>


I'm not certain about this, but this looks wrong to me. You're telling
Mailman to send to 2000 recipients in one transaction, and it appears
you're telling the MTA to only accept up to 1000.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  9 02:50:47 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 17:50:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] High usage -- making Mailman "nice"
In-Reply-To: <1134065575.18809.5.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512081750470109f0fccddc@msapiro>

John Dennis wrote:
>
>If your MTA can only handle one, or a small number of client connections
>then each connection will be busy handling SMTP_MAX_RCPTS and other
>client connections will queue up. If you have 4,000 recipients then you
>have the potential to tie up 8 SMTP client connections.


I don't think this is correct. Unless there are multiple outgoing
runners processing slices, I don't see how SMTP delivery is
multi-threaded, and even if there are multiple runners, a single
message to even 4000 recipients is going to be processed in its
entirety by one runner.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From caylan at aero.und.edu  Fri Dec  9 02:55:54 2005
From: caylan at aero.und.edu (Caylan Van Larson)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 19:55:54 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] High usage -- making Mailman "nice"
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200512081743250234f0fcce43@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200512081743250234f0fcce43@msapiro>
Message-ID: <AA934FCF-3AE2-4C23-A1C0-8E93676F1630@aero.und.edu>

On Dec 8, 2005, at 7:43 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Caylan Van Larson wrote:
>>
>> Here are the changes we made.
>>
>> mm_cfg.py
>> 	SMTP_MAX_RCPT = 2000
>> 	SMTPPORT=10027
>>
>> main.cf
>> 	smtpd_recipient_limit = 1000
>> 	default_process_limit = 150
>>
>
>
> I'm not certain about this, but this looks wrong to me. You're telling
> Mailman to send to 2000 recipients in one transaction, and it appears
> you're telling the MTA to only accept up to 1000.

You're right, there was a typo in the email.  The configs for both  
say 2000.  :-)

Caylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  9 03:12:49 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 18:12:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop sendmail from spewing messages one
	itstarts?
In-Reply-To: <439891B5.1000506@uwex.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512081812490843640268dc@msapiro>

Paul Williams wrote:
>
>1).   A user added a large number of subscribers by uploading
>      an Excel spreadsheet.  Mailman accepted the file and 
>      addresses appeared reasonable when viewed with IE but
>      not so good with mozilla (each alpha char was followed by
>      a box).   I was able to remove the names using the 
>      remove_members command by removing all members.
>
>      It seems that it might be a good check when importing a
>      list of users, for mailman to make sure it is a text file
>      so users don't mess things up inadvertantly.


What Mailman version is this? Current Mailman (2.1.6) is pretty good
about weeding out addresses with non-printable ascii characters. In
particular, it won't accept whatever characters were displaying as a
'box'.


>2).   The second problem that developed is that the user has
>      set notification on subscribing to yes and so she and
>      her boss bere getting several thousand emails.
>      I finally had to completely delete the list.
>      Is there a better way to tell mailman to stop sending email
>      from a specific list?   If that is possible, I have not
>      bumped into an explanation how mailman works so I would
>      be able to stop it sending emails.


Mass subscribe allows subscribing with or without notifications
regardless of list settings.

The notifications are created and placed in Mailman's virgin queue
(qfiles/virgin/) and then processed by VirginRunner and placed in the
out queue (qfiles/out). They are then picked up by OutgoingRunner and
delivered to the outgoing MTA.

You can stop Mailman (bin/mailmanctl stop) and then simply delete files
from the queues. You can use bin/show_qfiles to examine qfiles if you
are in doubt about what to delete.

Of course, none of this deals with messages that have already been
delivered to the MTA and are queued there.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  9 03:36:41 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 18:36:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to create new mail list from browser.
In-Reply-To: <5b1c0dc50512081414r2d212a2bj11733dfaa302a888@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005120818364109214d8e4bc2@msapiro>

Elvis Fernandes wrote:
>
>I get the following msg on the web browser:
>Error: You are not authorized to create new mailing lists.
>
>I am able to create this new mail list using the command line newlist
>Could someone tell me what is going on?

Anyone who can run the newlist command as the mailman user (or root)
can use it to create a list, and can do pretty much anything else to
mailman, but this is a pretty tight restriction, at least on most
machines.

Not so for web access, thus the list create page requires a password -
List creator's (authentication) password: (the last entry on the
form). Are you providing either the site password or the special list
creator password (both generated by bin/mmsitepass) in this entry?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jstubbs456 at gmail.com  Fri Dec  9 04:44:34 2005
From: jstubbs456 at gmail.com (Stubbs Jeff)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 22:44:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribe without confirmation
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200507271401290296399bd6c5@Notebook>
References: <PC1740200507271401290296399bd6c5@Notebook>
Message-ID: <FEE18661-6D78-47FB-B082-AB75FB500B50@gmail.com>


On Jul 27, 2005, at 5:01 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Sintz, James wrote:
>>
>> I understand the purpose of the confirmation, I just want the  
>> ability to turn it off. It is okay if users get unsubscribed from  
>> my list because of a spooked request.
>>
>
> If you really want to do it, I think the attached patch will allow it.
>
> Warning - this is untested, use at your own risk.
>
>
> <e-mail_unsub_wo_confirm.patch.txt>
> ------------------------------------------------------

Greetings All,

Like the OP, I was searching for an "unsubscribe without  
confirmation" solution for a single list (out of a dozen or so), when  
I ran across Mark's patch from July of this year. I'm still low on  
mailman's learning curve and python isn't my strong point. So I have  
a quick question.

The environment is Mac OS X 10.4.3 client, Postfix 2.2.5, Mailman 2.1.6

If I interpreted the patch and cmd_unsubscribe.py correctly, this  
patch affects the entire Mailman installation, correct?

Since most of the other lists are used for press releases for our  
clients, I could live with this "feature". I have bounce processing  
set to 1.0 to disable subscriptions quickly for bad addresses.

In short, just a newbie, asking if there is water below before  
jumping off the cliff. <grin>

Jeff Stubbs

IT Support
Altman-Hall Advertising
235 West Seventh Street
Erie, PA 16501
PH - 814.454.0158
FX -  814.454.3266


-------------- next part --------------
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From elvisfern at gmail.com  Fri Dec  9 05:02:53 2005
From: elvisfern at gmail.com (Elvis Fernandes)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 20:02:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to create new mail list from browser.
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005120818364109214d8e4bc2@msapiro>
References: <5b1c0dc50512081414r2d212a2bj11733dfaa302a888@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402005120818364109214d8e4bc2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <5b1c0dc50512082002u2bddc498m47cf61d982395d88@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mark,

Thanks for responding.

I changed the site passwd using bin/mmsitepass.
And now when I try creating a new mail list thru the browser, it comes back
with:
Error: Illegal list name.

Are these problems/errors documented somewhere?
Is there something that I am missing?

Regards
Elvis




On 12/8/05, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Elvis Fernandes wrote:
> >
> >I get the following msg on the web browser:
> >Error: You are not authorized to create new mailing lists.
> >
> >I am able to create this new mail list using the command line newlist
> >Could someone tell me what is going on?
>
> Anyone who can run the newlist command as the mailman user (or root)
> can use it to create a list, and can do pretty much anything else to
> mailman, but this is a pretty tight restriction, at least on most
> machines.
>
> Not so for web access, thus the list create page requires a password -
> List creator's (authentication) password: (the last entry on the
> form). Are you providing either the site password or the special list
> creator password (both generated by bin/mmsitepass) in this entry?
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From jwblist at loricamail.com  Fri Dec  9 05:00:16 2005
From: jwblist at loricamail.com (John W. Baxter)
Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 20:00:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop sendmail from spewing messages one
 itstarts?
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200512081812490843640268dc@msapiro>
Message-ID: <BFBE4150.9D27%jwblist@loricamail.com>

On 12/8/05 6:12 PM, "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Paul Williams wrote:
>> 
>> 1).   A user added a large number of subscribers by uploading
>>      an Excel spreadsheet.  Mailman accepted the file and
>>      addresses appeared reasonable when viewed with IE but
>>      not so good with mozilla (each alpha char was followed by
>>      a box).   I was able to remove the names using the
>>      remove_members command by removing all members.
>> 
>>      It seems that it might be a good check when importing a
>>      list of users, for mailman to make sure it is a text file
>>      so users don't mess things up inadvertantly.
> 
> 
> What Mailman version is this? Current Mailman (2.1.6) is pretty good
> about weeding out addresses with non-printable ascii characters. In
> particular, it won't accept whatever characters were displaying as a
> 'box'.

Is Excel perhaps producing UTF-16?


> 
> 
>> 2).   The second problem that developed is that the user has
>>      set notification on subscribing to yes and so she and
>>      her boss bere getting several thousand emails.
>>      I finally had to completely delete the list.
>>      Is there a better way to tell mailman to stop sending email
>>      from a specific list?   If that is possible, I have not
>>      bumped into an explanation how mailman works so I would
>>      be able to stop it sending emails.
> 
> 
> Mass subscribe allows subscribing with or without notifications
> regardless of list settings.

This is very much repairing the barn door after the horse is stolen, but for
such mass subscribes from previously-untested data, sending through a sample
of 10 or so addresses first isn't a bad idea.

  --John (cheering from the sidelines)





From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  9 05:47:24 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 20:47:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribe without confirmation
In-Reply-To: <FEE18661-6D78-47FB-B082-AB75FB500B50@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512082047240437a55c2fed@msapiro>

Jeff Stubbs wrote:
>
>Like the OP, I was searching for an "unsubscribe without  
>confirmation" solution for a single list (out of a dozen or so), when  
>I ran across Mark's patch from July of this year. I'm still low on  
>mailman's learning curve and python isn't my strong point. So I have  
>a quick question.
>
>The environment is Mac OS X 10.4.3 client, Postfix 2.2.5, Mailman 2.1.6
>
>If I interpreted the patch and cmd_unsubscribe.py correctly, this  
>patch affects the entire Mailman installation, correct?


Correct. It only affects unsubscribe by email, but it affects email
unsubscribes for the entire installation.

It would be pretty easy to modify the patch to test some list attribute
(a locally defined one set by withlist) to determine whether or not to
skip the things that the patch deletes.

Also, one could instead patch the ConfirmUnsubscription method in
Mailman/MailList.py if one wanted to skip confirmations of
unsubscribes from all sources (conditionally by list or not).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From elvisfern at gmail.com  Fri Dec  9 06:41:53 2005
From: elvisfern at gmail.com (Elvis Fernandes)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 21:41:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman complie errors again
Message-ID: <5b1c0dc50512082141p2e7c376fq448b7229b109af2e@mail.gmail.com>

I am compiling mailman-2.1.5 on Solaris10 (SPARC) with gcc 3.3.2
When I do make install, I get the following fatal error:



/usr/include/sys/siginfo.h:432: error: parse error before "k_siginfo_t"
/usr/include/sys/siginfo.h:437: error: parse error before '}' token
In file included from /usr/include/sys/procset.h:24,
                 from /usr/include/sys/wait.h:25,
                 from /usr/include/stdlib.h:22,
                 from /usr/local/include/python2.4/Python.h:39,
                 from src/_japanese_codecs.c:12:
/usr/include/sys/signal.h:85: error: parse error before "siginfo_t"
In file included from /usr/include/stdlib.h:22,
                 from /usr/local/include/python2.4/Python.h:39,
                 from src/_japanese_codecs.c:12:
/usr/include/sys/wait.h:86: error: parse error before "siginfo_t"
error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1
*** Error code 1
make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `install-packages'
Current working directory /disk1/mailman-2.1.5/misc
*** Error code 1
The following command caused the error:
for d in bin cron misc Mailman scripts src templates messages tests; \
do \
    (cd $d; make DESTDIR= install); \
done
make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `doinstall'


What is causing this fatal error?
Any help will be appreciated.

Regards
Elvis


From paul.williams at uwex.edu  Fri Dec  9 15:49:43 2005
From: paul.williams at uwex.edu (Paul Williams)
Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 08:49:43 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop sendmail from spewing messages one
 itstarts?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.10247.1134094373.18700.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.10247.1134094373.18700.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <43999987.5090103@uwex.edu>



> Paul Williams wrote:
> 
>>1).   A user added a large number of subscribers by uploading
>>     an Excel spreadsheet.  Mailman accepted the file and 
>>     addresses appeared reasonable when viewed with IE but
>>     not so good with mozilla (each alpha char was followed by
>>     a box).   I was able to remove the names using the 
>>     remove_members command by removing all members.
>>
>>     It seems that it might be a good check when importing a
>>     list of users, for mailman to make sure it is a text file
>>     so users don't mess things up inadvertantly.
> 
> 
> 
> What Mailman version is this? Current Mailman (2.1.6) is pretty good
> about weeding out addresses with non-printable ascii characters. In
> particular, it won't accept whatever characters were displaying as a
> 'box'.
> 
> 

We are using mailman 2.1.5.
Is 2.1.6 that much better?

> 
>>2).   The second problem that developed is that the user has
>>     set notification on subscribing to yes and so she and
>>     her boss bere getting several thousand emails.
>>     I finally had to completely delete the list.
>>     Is there a better way to tell mailman to stop sending email
>>     from a specific list?   If that is possible, I have not
>>     bumped into an explanation how mailman works so I would
>>     be able to stop it sending emails.
> 
> 
> 
> Mass subscribe allows subscribing with or without notifications
> regardless of list settings.
> 
> The notifications are created and placed in Mailman's virgin queue
> (qfiles/virgin/) and then processed by VirginRunner and placed in the
> out queue (qfiles/out). They are then picked up by OutgoingRunner and
> delivered to the outgoing MTA.
> 
> You can stop Mailman (bin/mailmanctl stop) and then simply delete files
> from the queues. You can use bin/show_qfiles to examine qfiles if you
> are in doubt about what to delete.
> 
> Of course, none of this deals with messages that have already been
> delivered to the MTA and are queued there.


paulw


From cpz at tuunq.com  Fri Dec  9 18:03:38 2005
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 09:03:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman complie errors again
In-Reply-To: <5b1c0dc50512082141p2e7c376fq448b7229b109af2e@mail.gmail.com> from
	Elvis Fernandes at "Dec 8, 2005 09:41:53 pm"
Message-ID: <20051209170338.266D07AE@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Elvis Fernandes wrote:
> I am compiling mailman-2.1.5 on Solaris10 (SPARC) with gcc 3.3.2
> When I do make install, I get the following fatal error:

Mailman compiles itself. Are you compiling -python-? (That's what it looks 
like.) Sort of out of scope for this list, but you might want to take a 
look at:

http://www.python.org/download/download_other.html

> /usr/include/sys/siginfo.h:432: error: parse error before "k_siginfo_t"
> /usr/include/sys/siginfo.h:437: error: parse error before '}' token
> In file included from /usr/include/sys/procset.h:24,
>                  from /usr/include/sys/wait.h:25,
>                  from /usr/include/stdlib.h:22,
>                  from /usr/local/include/python2.4/Python.h:39,
>                  from src/_japanese_codecs.c:12:

Also check the python FAQs.

z!


From jdennis at redhat.com  Fri Dec  9 18:39:10 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 12:39:10 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] High usage -- making Mailman "nice"
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200512081750470109f0fccddc@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200512081750470109f0fccddc@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1134149950.12420.9.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Thu, 2005-12-08 at 17:50 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> John Dennis wrote:
> >
> >If your MTA can only handle one, or a small number of client connections
> >then each connection will be busy handling SMTP_MAX_RCPTS and other
> >client connections will queue up. If you have 4,000 recipients then you
> >have the potential to tie up 8 SMTP client connections.
> 
> 
> I don't think this is correct. Unless there are multiple outgoing
> runners processing slices, I don't see how SMTP delivery is
> multi-threaded, and even if there are multiple runners, a single
> message to even 4000 recipients is going to be processed in its
> entirety by one runner.

Depends on whether the client waits for a success status or not, which
if my memory serves me correctly (its been failing lately :-) is not the
behavior in an SMTP transaction. I believe the MTA accepts the input,
queues the request and control is returned, at that point I believe the
connection is typically closed. At this point the outgoing running will
loop again and attempt initiate a new SMTP transaction. At least that
how I think it works, plus the behavior is specific to each MTA.

If the client waits for the transaction to complete they of course
you're right.

Mailman is not multi-threaded but many MTA's are or more properly many
MTA's pre-fork a pool of processes which are managed like threads.
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From bob at bergey.net  Fri Dec  9 19:27:47 2005
From: bob at bergey.net (Bob Bergey)
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 13:27:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Monthly password reminders not going out
Message-ID: <p06210217bfbf7ca66414@[10.0.1.2]>

Apologies if this is a duplicate message; I sent it yesterday 
afternoon but never saw it show up on the list.

I have about a dozen lists running on Mailman 2.1.4 on an XServe with 
OSX 10.3.9; all but one are set to send out monthly password 
reminders, but none are going out. Other than that, Mailman is 
running perfectly the last 2-1/2 months -- messages, digest, 
archives, all working as they should be. Any suggestions as to why 
the monthly reminders aren't being sent? The initial notices with the 
password when someone subscribes do go out okay.

Bob


From elvisfern at gmail.com  Fri Dec  9 19:33:22 2005
From: elvisfern at gmail.com (Elvis Fernandes)
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 10:33:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman complie errors again
In-Reply-To: <20051209170338.266D07AE@mail.tuunq.com>
References: <5b1c0dc50512082141p2e7c376fq448b7229b109af2e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20051209170338.266D07AE@mail.tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <5b1c0dc50512091033p62595518xcf67c4711487ac0@mail.gmail.com>

I installed the python binaries.
But I am building mailman on this solaris10 box.
So I am sure that this error is from the mailman make install.

Elvis


On 12/9/05, Carl Zwanzig <cpz at tuunq.com> wrote:
>
> In a flurry of recycled electrons, Elvis Fernandes wrote:
> > I am compiling mailman-2.1.5 on Solaris10 (SPARC) with gcc 3.3.2
> > When I do make install, I get the following fatal error:
>
> Mailman compiles itself. Are you compiling -python-? (That's what it looks
> like.) Sort of out of scope for this list, but you might want to take a
> look at:
>
> http://www.python.org/download/download_other.html
>
> > /usr/include/sys/siginfo.h:432: error: parse error before "k_siginfo_t"
> > /usr/include/sys/siginfo.h:437: error: parse error before '}' token
> > In file included from /usr/include/sys/procset.h:24,
> >                  from /usr/include/sys/wait.h:25,
> >                  from /usr/include/stdlib.h:22,
> >                  from /usr/local/include/python2.4/Python.h:39,
> >                  from src/_japanese_codecs.c:12:
>
> Also check the python FAQs.
>
> z!
>


From dave at dpss.bz  Fri Dec  9 19:46:00 2005
From: dave at dpss.bz (Dave B)
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 12:46:00 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permissions problem accessing commands via php
Message-ID: <699903d4668956fd8fd886198f5d20af@dpss.bz>

I am trying to create some php forms that use the shell_exec function 
to run some of the Mailman command line commands. i.e. I have a script 
that lets an admin user enter an email address and then uses the 
find_member script to return all lists that email address is in. To do 
this I had to set the permissions on the config.pck files to 664 (I am 
the only one with shell access to the server).

This works fine except that for some reason the permissions will 
sometimes revert back to 660 and then the script won't work. Only one 
config.pck file has to have 660 permissions for the script not to work. 
When I change that particular file back to 664 - the script works 
again. ANy ideas on what would cause the permissions to change back to 
660?

I would also like to be able to add members or remove members etc using 
this method but I get permissions errors even if I change the 
permissions to 666 on all the files in particular list directory. Any 
ideas on what I would need to do to be able to do this?

Thanks for any help on this one.

Dave Bevis



From jdennis at redhat.com  Fri Dec  9 21:12:39 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 15:12:39 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permissions problem accessing commands via php
In-Reply-To: <699903d4668956fd8fd886198f5d20af@dpss.bz>
References: <699903d4668956fd8fd886198f5d20af@dpss.bz>
Message-ID: <1134159159.12420.97.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Fri, 2005-12-09 at 12:46 -0600, Dave B wrote:
> I am trying to create some php forms that use the shell_exec function 
> to run some of the Mailman command line commands. i.e. I have a script 
> that lets an admin user enter an email address and then uses the 
> find_member script to return all lists that email address is in. To do 
> this I had to set the permissions on the config.pck files to 664 (I am 
> the only one with shell access to the server).
> 
> This works fine except that for some reason the permissions will 
> sometimes revert back to 660 and then the script won't work. Only one 
> config.pck file has to have 660 permissions for the script not to work. 
> When I change that particular file back to 664 - the script works 
> again. ANy ideas on what would cause the permissions to change back to 
> 660?
> 
> I would also like to be able to add members or remove members etc using 
> this method but I get permissions errors even if I change the 
> permissions to 666 on all the files in particular list directory. Any 
> ideas on what I would need to do to be able to do this?
> 
> Thanks for any help on this one.

Essentially you have two choices:

1) The php script executes as a member of the mailman group

2) The php script invokes a wrapper just like the CGI does. This is
preferred for a variety of security reasons. It would not be hard to
create a new wrapper from the existing wrapper src code.
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From chris at westnet.com  Fri Dec  9 21:20:16 2005
From: chris at westnet.com (Christopher X. Candreva)
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 15:20:16 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permissions problem accessing commands via php
In-Reply-To: <1134159159.12420.97.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <699903d4668956fd8fd886198f5d20af@dpss.bz>
	<1134159159.12420.97.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.62.0512091514540.3565@westnet.com>

On Fri, 9 Dec 2005, John Dennis wrote:

> 2) The php script invokes a wrapper just like the CGI does. This is
> preferred for a variety of security reasons. It would not be hard to
> create a new wrapper from the existing wrapper src code.

I'm giving serious thought to writing a mailman 'server', sort of like 
an SQL server process. It would let a cgi authenticate, then issue commands.
Today it could just call the CLI programs, someday -- it could be the actual 
way MailMan does its work, with the other programs calling it.


Drifting off topic . . . I've done mostly thinking about this because I 
don't know a lick of python, but it seems to me MailMan and the developers 
might benefit from breaking it up into more of a frontend/backend system. A 
'server' process that accepts messages, sends them from the queue, manages 
users, etc. Then the web stuff would be one front end to this. There could 
then be other front ends -- integrating with packages like PostNuke, 
shopping carts, etc.

The Unix way is small programs that do one job well. :-)

Am I the only one who thinks this is a good idea ? I'm willing to help how I 
can, and have zero interest in starting a fork. :-)

-Chris

==========================================================
Chris Candreva  -- chris at westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/


From elvisfern at gmail.com  Sat Dec 10 02:21:40 2005
From: elvisfern at gmail.com (Elvis Fernandes)
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 17:21:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman complie errors again
In-Reply-To: <5b1c0dc50512091033p62595518xcf67c4711487ac0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5b1c0dc50512082141p2e7c376fq448b7229b109af2e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20051209170338.266D07AE@mail.tuunq.com>
	<5b1c0dc50512091033p62595518xcf67c4711487ac0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5b1c0dc50512091721x1d57ae13y32c04d97be9c500@mail.gmail.com>

I fixed the mailman compile problem now.
Just re-build the box with Solaris8!

Thanks much
Elvis


On 12/9/05, Elvis Fernandes <elvisfern at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I installed the python binaries.
> But I am building mailman on this solaris10 box.
> So I am sure that this error is from the mailman make install.
>
> Elvis
>
>
>  On 12/9/05, Carl Zwanzig <cpz at tuunq.com> wrote:
> >
> > In a flurry of recycled electrons, Elvis Fernandes wrote:
> > > I am compiling mailman-2.1.5 on Solaris10 (SPARC) with gcc 3.3.2
> > > When I do make install, I get the following fatal error:
> >
> > Mailman compiles itself. Are you compiling -python-? (That's what it
> > looks
> > like.) Sort of out of scope for this list, but you might want to take a
> > look at:
> >
> > http://www.python.org/download/download_other.html
> >
> > > /usr/include/sys/siginfo.h:432: error: parse error before
> > "k_siginfo_t"
> > > /usr/include/sys/siginfo.h:437: error: parse error before '}' token
> > > In file included from /usr/include/sys/procset.h:24,
> > >                  from /usr/include/sys/wait.h:25,
> > >                  from /usr/include/stdlib.h:22,
> > >                  from /usr/local/include/python2.4/Python.h:39,
> > >                  from src/_japanese_codecs.c:12:
> >
> > Also check the python FAQs.
> >
> > z!
> >
>
>


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec 10 05:15:19 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 20:15:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to create new mail list from browser.
In-Reply-To: <5b1c0dc50512082002u2bddc498m47cf61d982395d88@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020051209201519043755aee468@msapiro>

Elvis Fernandes wrote:
>
>I changed the site passwd using bin/mmsitepass.
>And now when I try creating a new mail list thru the browser, it comes back
>with:
>Error: Illegal list name.
>
>Are these problems/errors documented somewhere?
>Is there something that I am missing?

The error messages aren't documented in detail anywhere. They are
*supposed* to be self explanitory. The only way to get more
information is to look at the scripts themselves.

In this case, the message is supposed to be

Error: Illegal list name: list_posting_address

Where list_posting_address is listname at emailhost, and the error is
issued because this is not a valid email address according to
Utils.ValidateEmail which means either it contained one or more spaces
or the emailhost part did not contain at least two dot-separated
pieces, i.e., list at example.com is OK, list at example is not.

emailhost depends on the setting of VIRTUAL_HOSTS_OVERVIEW and is
either DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST or the email host corresponding to the url
host of the create page fron the VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec 10 05:25:48 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 20:25:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop sendmail from spewing messages
	oneitstarts?
In-Reply-To: <43999987.5090103@uwex.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512092025480546fa727072@msapiro>

Paul Williams wrote:
>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> 
>> What Mailman version is this? Current Mailman (2.1.6) is pretty good
>> about weeding out addresses with non-printable ascii characters. In
>> particular, it won't accept whatever characters were displaying as a
>> 'box'.
>> 
>> 
>
>We are using mailman 2.1.5.
>Is 2.1.6 that much better?

Yes. it is better in this respect. It disallows octal codes 000 through
037 and 177 which were allowed in 2.1.5 (200 through 377 are
disallowed in both).

It also has some security fixes, a Python 2.4 compatability fix and
several other features and fixes. See
<http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/mailman/mailman/NEWS?rev=2.43.2.51&view=markup>
for more info.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec 10 05:51:05 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 20:51:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] High usage -- making Mailman "nice"
In-Reply-To: <1134149950.12420.9.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512092051050000ff60f105@msapiro>

John Dennis wrote:
>
>Depends on whether the client waits for a success status or not, which
>if my memory serves me correctly (its been failing lately :-) is not the
>behavior in an SMTP transaction. I believe the MTA accepts the input,
>queues the request and control is returned, at that point I believe the
>connection is typically closed. At this point the outgoing running will
>loop again and attempt initiate a new SMTP transaction. At least that
>how I think it works, plus the behavior is specific to each MTA.


Mailman, via SMTPDirect sends all the delivery chunks for a message
before returning control to the outgoing runner. Assuming we're not
VERPing or personalizing, it sends the 'MAIL FROM' command followed by
SMTP_MAX_RCPTS 'RCPT TO' commands, followed by 'DATA' and the message.
After receiving the response to the 'DATA', it (normally, but depends
on SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION) sends the 'MAIL FROM' for the
next chunk on the same connection.

It may throw in another HELO/EHLO between transactions. This is in the
Python smtplib, and I haven't looked in detail.


>If the client waits for the transaction to complete they of course
>you're right.


The client (Mailman) waits for the response to the 'DATA' command for
each chunk. This doesn't mean the mail has been sent, but it has been
accepted and queued within the MTA. How many queues the MTA uses at
this point to actually send the mail is up to the MTA, not Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec 10 06:23:14 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 21:23:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman complie errors again
In-Reply-To: <20051209170338.266D07AE@mail.tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512092123140171e5386ed9@msapiro>

Carl Zwanzig wrote:

>In a flurry of recycled electrons, Elvis Fernandes wrote:
>> I am compiling mailman-2.1.5 on Solaris10 (SPARC) with gcc 3.3.2
>> When I do make install, I get the following fatal error:
>
>Mailman compiles itself. Are you compiling -python-? (That's what it looks 
>like.) Sort of out of scope for this list, but you might want to take a 
>look at:
>
>http://www.python.org/download/download_other.html
>
>> /usr/include/sys/siginfo.h:432: error: parse error before "k_siginfo_t"
>> /usr/include/sys/siginfo.h:437: error: parse error before '}' token
>> In file included from /usr/include/sys/procset.h:24,
>>                  from /usr/include/sys/wait.h:25,
>>                  from /usr/include/stdlib.h:22,
>>                  from /usr/local/include/python2.4/Python.h:39,
>>                  from src/_japanese_codecs.c:12:


Actually, this comes from the installation of the japanese codecs in
mailman. The src/_japanese_codecs.c file is in the Mailman 2.1.5
distribution in the misc/JapaneseCodecs-1.4.10 directory.

This is one of several compilations of c programs/modules in the
Mailman make install process.

Note however that Mailman 2.1.5 is not fully compatible with Python
2.4. I don't know if it would fix this problen, but if you're running
Python 2.4 (or even if you're not) you would do well to install
Mailman 2.1.6 or later.

I see from a later post, Elvis 'fixed' the problem by falling back to
Solaris 8. It's hard to say what's really going on in the case that
fails, but it looks like there is some compatibility issue between the
header files in /usr/include/sys/ and gcc 3.3.2 on Solaris 10.

Presumably, the Python header file
/usr/local/include/python2.4/Python.h is included in many Python
modules and thus this whole include path was exercised during the
original compile of Python for Solaris 10 (maybe with some other c
compiler).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec 10 06:36:35 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 21:36:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Monthly password reminders not going out
In-Reply-To: <p06210217bfbf7ca66414@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <PC17402005120921363505150b7a9326@msapiro>

Bob Bergey wrote:
>
>I have about a dozen lists running on Mailman 2.1.4 on an XServe with 
>OSX 10.3.9; all but one are set to send out monthly password 
>reminders, but none are going out. Other than that, Mailman is 
>running perfectly the last 2-1/2 months -- messages, digest, 
>archives, all working as they should be. Any suggestions as to why 
>the monthly reminders aren't being sent? The initial notices with the 
>password when someone subscribes do go out okay.


Is the cron to run cron/mailpasswds at 5 a.m. on the first of the month
(or other time) actually scheduled?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec 10 06:48:20 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 21:48:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permissions problem accessing commands via php
In-Reply-To: <699903d4668956fd8fd886198f5d20af@dpss.bz>
Message-ID: <PC17402005120921482007032485b0f3@msapiro>

Dave B wrote:
>
>This works fine except that for some reason the permissions will 
>sometimes revert back to 660 and then the script won't work. Only one 
>config.pck file has to have 660 permissions for the script not to work. 
>When I change that particular file back to 664 - the script works 
>again. ANy ideas on what would cause the permissions to change back to 
>660?


The mail list Save() method effectively moves the current config.pck to
config.pck.last and saves a new one (it's more complicated than this
for safety, but this is the effect). Thus, every time any list
attribute is changed and saved (i.e. whenever a post is processed or
the admin or admindb interfaces are changed or a member changes
options, etc., etc.), a new config.pck is created with 'standard'
permissions.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From meaje at meanspc.com  Sat Dec 10 18:16:55 2005
From: meaje at meanspc.com (Jeffrey D. Means)
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 10:16:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman problems
Message-ID: <1134235015.31171.115.camel@jeff-w.meanspc.com>

I am having problems getting mailman to run with qmail.  I have at this
point proven to myself so that I believe it is a problem either in the
mailman config or who mailman is running as (permissions problem).

When I post to a list I created I get a message back saying I need to
visit the web site and follow the directions there.  I have already
registered as a user on the list by admin bulk add, since I cant respond
to the register address either.

-- mail bounce when trying to talk to -request
>From MAILER-DAEMON at bast.meanspc.com Thu Dec  8 10:47:05 2005
Return-Path: <>
Delivered-To: meaje at meanspc.com
Received: (qmail 1560 invoked for bounce); 8 Dec 2005 10:47:05 -0000
Date: 8 Dec 2005 10:47:05 -0000
From: MAILER-DAEMON at bast.meanspc.com
To: meaje at meanspc.com
Subject: failure notice
X-Evolution-Source: imap://meaje%40meanspc.com at mail/
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Message-Id: <1134234907.31171.112.camel at jeff-w.meanspc.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0

Hi. This is the qmail-send program at bast.meanspc.com.
I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following
addresses.
This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.

<cvs-request at lists.meanspc.com>:
TO ACCESS THE MAILING LIST SYSTEM: Start your web browser on
http://lists.meanspc.com/
That web page will help you subscribe or unsubscribe, and will
give you directions on how to post to each mailing list.

--- Below this line is a copy of the message.

Return-Path: <meaje at meanspc.com>
Received: (qmail 1553 invoked by uid 89); 8 Dec 2005 10:47:05 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO jeff-w.meanspc.com)
(meaje at meanspc.com@192.168.100.2)
  by bast.meanspc.com with (RC4-MD5 encrypted) SMTP; 8 Dec 2005 10:47:05
-0000
Subject: test
From: "Jeffrey D. Means" <meaje at meanspc.com>
To: cvs-request at lists.meanspc.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Organization: MeansPC
Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 03:48:04 -0700
Message-Id: <1134038884.12976.248.camel at jeff-w.meanspc.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Evolution 2.2.3 (2.2.3-2.fc4) 
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

help

-- end of mail bounce

Any and all help would be appreciated.  My thanks in advance,
-- 

Jeffrey D. Means                                   meaje at meanspc.com
Owner / CIO for MeansPC                       http://www.meanspc.com/
Custom Web Development For Your Needs.                 (970)308-1298

- Everything in moderation including moderation. - Unknown

My Public PGP Key ID is: 0x81F00126
and available via:  
http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x81F00126



From dave at dpss.bz  Sat Dec 10 18:22:43 2005
From: dave at dpss.bz (Dave B)
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 11:22:43 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permissions problem accessing commands via php
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005120921482007032485b0f3@msapiro>
References: <PC17402005120921482007032485b0f3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <480af581eafabde161f1a4a417fae37f@dpss.bz>

Does it use the umask setting? If so, it should be setting permissions 
to 644 (umask is 022) instead of the 660 that it sets. Is there a way 
to change what it uses as  standard permissions?

Thanks - Dave

On Dec 9, 2005, at 11:48 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Dave B wrote:
>>
>> This works fine except that for some reason the permissions will
>> sometimes revert back to 660 and then the script won't work. Only one
>> config.pck file has to have 660 permissions for the script not to 
>> work.
>> When I change that particular file back to 664 - the script works
>> again. ANy ideas on what would cause the permissions to change back to
>> 660?
>
>
> The mail list Save() method effectively moves the current config.pck to
> config.pck.last and saves a new one (it's more complicated than this
> for safety, but this is the effect). Thus, every time any list
> attribute is changed and saved (i.e. whenever a post is processed or
> the admin or admindb interfaces are changed or a member changes
> options, etc., etc.), a new config.pck is created with 'standard'
> permissions.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>
>



From ren at trubble.com  Sat Dec 10 18:38:59 2005
From: ren at trubble.com (Ren Bucholz)
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 12:38:59 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] add_members and email confirmation
In-Reply-To: <PC174020051028131343087529dc3516@msapiro>
References: <PC174020051028131343087529dc3516@msapiro>
Message-ID: <70bc3efdd13d414a1306cae0c5ffc184@trubble.com>

This is a followup to an older message, but I wanted to say that Mark's 
fix worked for the error handling.  Thanks, Mark!

I'm still having a problem with the confirmations, however.  To recap, 
I'm trying to use a modified version of add_members (call it 
new_add_members) in order to subscribe people via my own webform (where 
PHP executes add_members).  I modified it because I'd like the list to 
be confirmed opt-in, but add_members assumes that the user has 
confirmed their subscription and doesn't bother with the confirmation 
message. There's a longer description of what I did in this list's 
archives, if you're interested:
   http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg35077.html

The problem is that this script totally breaks Mailman's web 
subscription features.  The first time I run new_add_members, I get a 
seemingly normal looking confirmation.  Upon clicking the confirmation 
link, I get the Mailman's generic "Sorry, We Hit A Bug!" message.  And 
from that point forward, attempting to subscribe via the list's 
standard Mailman info page (foo.com/mailman/listinfo/your_list) 
generates the same error.  You can still subscribe by calling the 
unmodified add_members.  The error logs say:

admin(32487): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.5 -----]
admin(32487): [----- Traceback ------]
admin(32487): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(32487):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 101, in 
run_main
admin(32487):     main()
admin(32487):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py", line 
96, in main
admin(32487):     process_form(mlist, doc, cgidata, language)
admin(32487):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py", line 
176, in process_form
admin(32487):     mlist.AddMember(userdesc, remote)
admin(32487):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 854, 
in AddMember
admin(32487):     cookie = self.pend_new(Pending.SUBSCRIPTION, userdesc)
admin(32487):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Pending.py", line 65, in 
pend_new
admin(32487):     db = self.__load()
admin(32487):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Pending.py", line 95, in 
__load
admin(32487):     return cPickle.load(fp)
admin(32487): AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 
'UserDesc'
admin(32487): [----- Python Information -----]
admin(32487): sys.version     =   2.3.4 (#1, Feb  2 2005, 11:44:49)
[GCC 3.4.3 20041212 (Red Hat 3.4.3-9.EL4)]

If anyone has any idea how to fix this, I'd be most appreciative.  I 
should also mention that error isn't limited to a single address - 
subscribing me at fake.com via new_add_members will cause a web 
subscription for you at fake.com to fail. Thanks for reading this far!

-Ren



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec 10 19:38:50 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 10:38:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permissions problem accessing commands via php
In-Reply-To: <480af581eafabde161f1a4a417fae37f@dpss.bz>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512101038500265ccca3a5b@msapiro>



----- Original Message ---------------

Dave B wrote:

>Does it use the umask setting? If so, it should be setting permissions 
>to 644 (umask is 022) instead of the 660 that it sets.


It uses umask, but it sets it to 007 before creating the new file and
restores it afterword, because it specifically doesn't want the file
readable by 'other' as it contains plain text passwords. BTW, 644
isn't good. It should be 664 (umask = 002) to do what you want as
files should be group writable, but it isn't critical in the case of
config.pck because it's always a new file that's written - the old one
is only read.


>Is there a way 
>to change what it uses as  standard permissions?


Only by changing the code in MailList.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec 10 20:15:23 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 11:15:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman problems
In-Reply-To: <1134235015.31171.115.camel@jeff-w.meanspc.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005121011152305000e0833ab@msapiro>

Jeffrey D. Means wrote:

>I am having problems getting mailman to run with qmail.  I have at this
>point proven to myself so that I believe it is a problem either in the
>mailman config or who mailman is running as (permissions problem).
>
>When I post to a list I created I get a message back saying I need to
>visit the web site and follow the directions there.  I have already
>registered as a user on the list by admin bulk add, since I cant respond
>to the register address either.


How was this mailman installed? It is not standard in these respects at
all unless the "TO ACCESS THE MAILING LIST SYSTEM:" message is in
qmail. It certainly isn't in standard Mailman 2.1.5.

Further, if I try to go to http://lists.meanspc.com/, I am redirected
to http://www.meanspc.com/mailman/listinfo and I get a "Bug in Mailman
version 2.1.5" which is definitely a problem. What's in Mailman's
'error' log for these?

See below for more.


>-- mail bounce when trying to talk to -request
>>From MAILER-DAEMON at bast.meanspc.com Thu Dec  8 10:47:05 2005
>Return-Path: <>
>Delivered-To: meaje at meanspc.com
>Received: (qmail 1560 invoked for bounce); 8 Dec 2005 10:47:05 -0000
>Date: 8 Dec 2005 10:47:05 -0000
>From: MAILER-DAEMON at bast.meanspc.com
>To: meaje at meanspc.com
>Subject: failure notice
>X-Evolution-Source: imap://meaje%40meanspc.com at mail/
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>Message-Id: <1134234907.31171.112.camel at jeff-w.meanspc.com>
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>
>Hi. This is the qmail-send program at bast.meanspc.com.
>I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following
>addresses.
>This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.
>
><cvs-request at lists.meanspc.com>:
>TO ACCESS THE MAILING LIST SYSTEM: Start your web browser on
>http://lists.meanspc.com/
>That web page will help you subscribe or unsubscribe, and will
>give you directions on how to post to each mailing list.


This message is not in standard Mailman. In the standard system, mail
to cvs-request at lists.meanspc.com would be piped to the mail wrapper
via something like "|path_to/mailman/mail/mailman request cvs" (or
with qmail maybe "|preline path_to/mailman/mail/mailman request cvs")
and the wrapper would pipe it to scripts/request with argument "cvs".
The request script would queue the message for the command runner.

The only things that result in an error returned to qmail are errors
involving the invoking group, the number of command arguments or the
command type detected by the wrapper or no or non-existant list
detected by the request script. None of those messages look at all
like the above.

If you haven't modified the wrapper, then the mail probably isn't
getting that far and the above message is coming from qmail. Do you
have the appropriate .qmail-cvs, .qmail-cvs-request, etc. alias files?



>--- Below this line is a copy of the message.

The message looks OK, but it seems that the process hasn't even gotten
to the point of looking at it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec 10 20:43:20 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 11:43:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] add_members and email confirmation
In-Reply-To: <70bc3efdd13d414a1306cae0c5ffc184@trubble.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512101143200656451a8c64@msapiro>

Ren Bucholz wrote:
>
>I'm still having a problem with the confirmations, however.  To recap, 
>I'm trying to use a modified version of add_members (call it 
>new_add_members) in order to subscribe people via my own webform (where 
>PHP executes add_members).  I modified it because I'd like the list to 
>be confirmed opt-in, but add_members assumes that the user has 
>confirmed their subscription and doesn't bother with the confirmation 
>message. There's a longer description of what I did in this list's 
>archives, if you're interested:
>   http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg35077.html
>
>The problem is that this script totally breaks Mailman's web 
>subscription features.  The first time I run new_add_members, I get a 
>seemingly normal looking confirmation.  Upon clicking the confirmation 
>link, I get the Mailman's generic "Sorry, We Hit A Bug!" message.  And 
>from that point forward, attempting to subscribe via the list's 
>standard Mailman info page (foo.com/mailman/listinfo/your_list) 
>generates the same error.  You can still subscribe by calling the 
>unmodified add_members.  The error logs say:
>
>admin(32487): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.5 -----]
>admin(32487): [----- Traceback ------]
>admin(32487): Traceback (most recent call last):
>admin(32487):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 101, in 
>run_main
>admin(32487):     main()
>admin(32487):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py", line 
>96, in main
>admin(32487):     process_form(mlist, doc, cgidata, language)
>admin(32487):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py", line 
>176, in process_form
>admin(32487):     mlist.AddMember(userdesc, remote)
>admin(32487):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 854, 
>in AddMember
>admin(32487):     cookie = self.pend_new(Pending.SUBSCRIPTION, userdesc)
>admin(32487):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Pending.py", line 65, in 
>pend_new
>admin(32487):     db = self.__load()
>admin(32487):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Pending.py", line 95, in 
>__load
>admin(32487):     return cPickle.load(fp)
>admin(32487): AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 
>'UserDesc'
<snip>

>If anyone has any idea how to fix this, I'd be most appreciative.  I 
>should also mention that error isn't limited to a single address - 
>subscribing me at fake.com via new_add_members will cause a web 
>subscription for you at fake.com to fail. Thanks for reading this far!


At this point, lists/listname/pending.pck is corrupt and has to be
removed for normal stuff to proceed.

The underlying problem is new_members defines the UserDesc class to be
empty, thus when you call

mlist.AddMember(userdesc, remote="Webpage")

userdesc is not a valid UserDesc instance for AddMember which is where
things go wrong.

I think you need to do the following in your script.

Add

from Mailman.UserDesc import UserDesc

Remove

class UserDesc: pass

It looks like that's all you need, but I haven't looked too thoroughly.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ren at trubble.com  Sat Dec 10 20:49:18 2005
From: ren at trubble.com (Ren Bucholz)
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 14:49:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] add_members and email confirmation
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200512101143200656451a8c64@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200512101143200656451a8c64@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4caee5467eac1560f264592a47fa1975@trubble.com>

On Dec 10, 2005, at 2:43 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> At this point, lists/listname/pending.pck is corrupt and has to be
> removed for normal stuff to proceed.

Quick question before trying this fix - can I just erase pending.pck, 
or do I need to replace it with a non-corrupted version from another 
list?

Thanks!

-Ren


> Ren Bucholz wrote:
>>
>> I'm still having a problem with the confirmations, however.  To recap,
>> I'm trying to use a modified version of add_members (call it
>> new_add_members) in order to subscribe people via my own webform 
>> (where
>> PHP executes add_members).  I modified it because I'd like the list to
>> be confirmed opt-in, but add_members assumes that the user has
>> confirmed their subscription and doesn't bother with the confirmation
>> message. There's a longer description of what I did in this list's
>> archives, if you're interested:
>>   http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg35077.html
>>
>> The problem is that this script totally breaks Mailman's web
>> subscription features.  The first time I run new_add_members, I get a
>> seemingly normal looking confirmation.  Upon clicking the confirmation
>> link, I get the Mailman's generic "Sorry, We Hit A Bug!" message.  And
>> from that point forward, attempting to subscribe via the list's
>> standard Mailman info page (foo.com/mailman/listinfo/your_list)
>> generates the same error.  You can still subscribe by calling the
>> unmodified add_members.  The error logs say:
>>
>> admin(32487): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.5 -----]
>> admin(32487): [----- Traceback ------]
>> admin(32487): Traceback (most recent call last):
>> admin(32487):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 101, in
>> run_main
>> admin(32487):     main()
>> admin(32487):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py", line
>> 96, in main
>> admin(32487):     process_form(mlist, doc, cgidata, language)
>> admin(32487):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py", line
>> 176, in process_form
>> admin(32487):     mlist.AddMember(userdesc, remote)
>> admin(32487):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 854,
>> in AddMember
>> admin(32487):     cookie = self.pend_new(Pending.SUBSCRIPTION, 
>> userdesc)
>> admin(32487):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Pending.py", line 65, 
>> in
>> pend_new
>> admin(32487):     db = self.__load()
>> admin(32487):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Pending.py", line 95, 
>> in
>> __load
>> admin(32487):     return cPickle.load(fp)
>> admin(32487): AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute
>> 'UserDesc'
> <snip>
>
>> If anyone has any idea how to fix this, I'd be most appreciative.  I
>> should also mention that error isn't limited to a single address -
>> subscribing me at fake.com via new_add_members will cause a web
>> subscription for you at fake.com to fail. Thanks for reading this far!
>
>
> At this point, lists/listname/pending.pck is corrupt and has to be
> removed for normal stuff to proceed.
>
> The underlying problem is new_members defines the UserDesc class to be
> empty, thus when you call
>
> mlist.AddMember(userdesc, remote="Webpage")
>
> userdesc is not a valid UserDesc instance for AddMember which is where
> things go wrong.
>
> I think you need to do the following in your script.
>
> Add
>
> from Mailman.UserDesc import UserDesc
>
> Remove
>
> class UserDesc: pass
>
> It looks like that's all you need, but I haven't looked too thoroughly.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec 10 21:08:55 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 12:08:55 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] add_members and email confirmation
In-Reply-To: <4caee5467eac1560f264592a47fa1975@trubble.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512101208550968ccca3d1f@msapiro>

Ren Bucholz wrote:
>
>Quick question before trying this fix - can I just erase pending.pck, 
>or do I need to replace it with a non-corrupted version from another 
>list?

You can just remove it. It will be recreated when needed.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ren at trubble.com  Sat Dec 10 21:45:29 2005
From: ren at trubble.com (Ren Bucholz)
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 15:45:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] add_members and email confirmation
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200512101143200656451a8c64@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200512101143200656451a8c64@msapiro>
Message-ID: <db45bd5b44039b900aa682e7e174e485@trubble.com>

Mark is officially awesome.  This works, and now my list can be 
confirmed-opt-in.  Thanks sooooo much!

-Ren

PS - If you want to see the final, working replacement for Add_Members, 
you can get it here:
   http://trubble.com/miscellaneous/new_add_members.txt

On Dec 10, 2005, at 2:43 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Ren Bucholz wrote:
>>
>> I'm still having a problem with the confirmations, however.  To recap,
>> I'm trying to use a modified version of add_members (call it
>> new_add_members) in order to subscribe people via my own webform 
>> (where
>> PHP executes add_members).  I modified it because I'd like the list to
>> be confirmed opt-in, but add_members assumes that the user has
>> confirmed their subscription and doesn't bother with the confirmation
>> message. There's a longer description of what I did in this list's
>> archives, if you're interested:
>>   http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg35077.html
>>
>> The problem is that this script totally breaks Mailman's web
>> subscription features.  The first time I run new_add_members, I get a
>> seemingly normal looking confirmation.  Upon clicking the confirmation
>> link, I get the Mailman's generic "Sorry, We Hit A Bug!" message.  And
>> from that point forward, attempting to subscribe via the list's
>> standard Mailman info page (foo.com/mailman/listinfo/your_list)
>> generates the same error.  You can still subscribe by calling the
>> unmodified add_members.  The error logs say:
>>
>> admin(32487): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.5 -----]
>> admin(32487): [----- Traceback ------]
>> admin(32487): Traceback (most recent call last):
>> admin(32487):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 101, in
>> run_main
>> admin(32487):     main()
>> admin(32487):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py", line
>> 96, in main
>> admin(32487):     process_form(mlist, doc, cgidata, language)
>> admin(32487):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py", line
>> 176, in process_form
>> admin(32487):     mlist.AddMember(userdesc, remote)
>> admin(32487):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 854,
>> in AddMember
>> admin(32487):     cookie = self.pend_new(Pending.SUBSCRIPTION, 
>> userdesc)
>> admin(32487):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Pending.py", line 65, 
>> in
>> pend_new
>> admin(32487):     db = self.__load()
>> admin(32487):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Pending.py", line 95, 
>> in
>> __load
>> admin(32487):     return cPickle.load(fp)
>> admin(32487): AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute
>> 'UserDesc'
> <snip>
>
>> If anyone has any idea how to fix this, I'd be most appreciative.  I
>> should also mention that error isn't limited to a single address -
>> subscribing me at fake.com via new_add_members will cause a web
>> subscription for you at fake.com to fail. Thanks for reading this far!
>
>
> At this point, lists/listname/pending.pck is corrupt and has to be
> removed for normal stuff to proceed.
>
> The underlying problem is new_members defines the UserDesc class to be
> empty, thus when you call
>
> mlist.AddMember(userdesc, remote="Webpage")
>
> userdesc is not a valid UserDesc instance for AddMember which is where
> things go wrong.
>
> I think you need to do the following in your script.
>
> Add
>
> from Mailman.UserDesc import UserDesc
>
> Remove
>
> class UserDesc: pass
>
> It looks like that's all you need, but I haven't looked too thoroughly.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>



From mechbun at mechanicalbunny.com  Sat Dec 10 22:11:01 2005
From: mechbun at mechanicalbunny.com (Mechanical Bunny)
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 15:11:01 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving Servers
Message-ID: <020801c5fdce$3affcc60$6501a8c0@herman>

Hi, 
I am changing from a webhost that uses your software to help me control my mailing lists, to one that does not use your software.  Is there anyway I can just transfer your software over into my new host's server?  My new host has a really crappy mailing list setup and I like yours so much. 

Thanks!  =)
Dominique

From ren at trubble.com  Sat Dec 10 22:16:16 2005
From: ren at trubble.com (Ren Bucholz)
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 16:16:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] add_members and email confirmation
In-Reply-To: <db45bd5b44039b900aa682e7e174e485@trubble.com>
References: <PC1740200512101143200656451a8c64@msapiro>
	<db45bd5b44039b900aa682e7e174e485@trubble.com>
Message-ID: <abf24c74a0cdaa49c64f57fb18132bc2@trubble.com>

One last caveat: following the confirmation link works, as does  
confirming your subscription once you get there.  However, *cancelling*  
your subscription from the website leads to the same "We hit a bug  
message."  I'm not including the URL in my verify.txt confirmation  
message (users just have to reply), but I thought y'all might want to  
know about this outstanding issue.  Users can always ignore the  
confirmation, of course, but errors are unsettling.

Thanks again, and I'm happy to test any suggested fixes that emerge.

-Ren


On Dec 10, 2005, at 3:45 PM, Ren Bucholz wrote:

> Mark is officially awesome.  This works, and now my list can be
> confirmed-opt-in.  Thanks sooooo much!
>
> -Ren
>
> PS - If you want to see the final, working replacement for Add_Members,
> you can get it here:
>    http://trubble.com/miscellaneous/new_add_members.txt
>
> On Dec 10, 2005, at 2:43 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> Ren Bucholz wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm still having a problem with the confirmations, however.  To  
>>> recap,
>>> I'm trying to use a modified version of add_members (call it
>>> new_add_members) in order to subscribe people via my own webform
>>> (where
>>> PHP executes add_members).  I modified it because I'd like the list  
>>> to
>>> be confirmed opt-in, but add_members assumes that the user has
>>> confirmed their subscription and doesn't bother with the confirmation
>>> message. There's a longer description of what I did in this list's
>>> archives, if you're interested:
>>>   http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg35077.html
>>>
>>> The problem is that this script totally breaks Mailman's web
>>> subscription features.  The first time I run new_add_members, I get a
>>> seemingly normal looking confirmation.  Upon clicking the  
>>> confirmation
>>> link, I get the Mailman's generic "Sorry, We Hit A Bug!" message.   
>>> And
>>> from that point forward, attempting to subscribe via the list's
>>> standard Mailman info page (foo.com/mailman/listinfo/your_list)
>>> generates the same error.  You can still subscribe by calling the
>>> unmodified add_members.  The error logs say:
>>>
>>> admin(32487): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.5 -----]
>>> admin(32487): [----- Traceback ------]
>>> admin(32487): Traceback (most recent call last):
>>> admin(32487):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 101, in
>>> run_main
>>> admin(32487):     main()
>>> admin(32487):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py",  
>>> line
>>> 96, in main
>>> admin(32487):     process_form(mlist, doc, cgidata, language)
>>> admin(32487):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py",  
>>> line
>>> 176, in process_form
>>> admin(32487):     mlist.AddMember(userdesc, remote)
>>> admin(32487):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line  
>>> 854,
>>> in AddMember
>>> admin(32487):     cookie = self.pend_new(Pending.SUBSCRIPTION,
>>> userdesc)
>>> admin(32487):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Pending.py", line 65,
>>> in
>>> pend_new
>>> admin(32487):     db = self.__load()
>>> admin(32487):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Pending.py", line 95,
>>> in
>>> __load
>>> admin(32487):     return cPickle.load(fp)
>>> admin(32487): AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute
>>> 'UserDesc'
>> <snip>
>>
>>> If anyone has any idea how to fix this, I'd be most appreciative.  I
>>> should also mention that error isn't limited to a single address -
>>> subscribing me at fake.com via new_add_members will cause a web
>>> subscription for you at fake.com to fail. Thanks for reading this far!
>>
>>
>> At this point, lists/listname/pending.pck is corrupt and has to be
>> removed for normal stuff to proceed.
>>
>> The underlying problem is new_members defines the UserDesc class to be
>> empty, thus when you call
>>
>> mlist.AddMember(userdesc, remote="Webpage")
>>
>> userdesc is not a valid UserDesc instance for AddMember which is where
>> things go wrong.
>>
>> I think you need to do the following in your script.
>>
>> Add
>>
>> from Mailman.UserDesc import UserDesc
>>
>> Remove
>>
>> class UserDesc: pass
>>
>> It looks like that's all you need, but I haven't looked too  
>> thoroughly.
>>
>> --  
>> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:  
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:  
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ren%40trubble.com
>
> Security Policy:  
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp; 
> file=faq01.027.htp



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec 10 22:40:31 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 13:40:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] add_members and email confirmation
In-Reply-To: <abf24c74a0cdaa49c64f57fb18132bc2@trubble.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512101340310890880585d9@msapiro>

Ren Bucholz wrote:

>One last caveat: following the confirmation link works, as does  
>confirming your subscription once you get there.  However, *cancelling*  
>your subscription from the website leads to the same "We hit a bug  
>message."  I'm not including the URL in my verify.txt confirmation  
>message (users just have to reply), but I thought y'all might want to  
>know about this outstanding issue.  Users can always ignore the  
>confirmation, of course, but errors are unsettling.


This is a known problem - fixed in 2.1.6. See
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=981188&group_id=103&atid=100103>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec 10 23:17:50 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 14:17:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving Servers
In-Reply-To: <020801c5fdce$3affcc60$6501a8c0@herman>
Message-ID: <PC17402005121014175009685b34459a@msapiro>

Mechanical Bunny wrote:

>I am changing from a webhost that uses your software to help me control my mailing lists, to one that does not use your software.  Is there anyway I can just transfer your software over into my new host's server?  My new host has a really crappy mailing list setup and I like yours so much. 


You would have to install Mailman on the new host's server. This would
undoubtedly require the cooperation and assistance of the new host's
personnel, so you should be speaking to them.

Once Mailman is installed on the new host, the lists and archives can
be transferred from the old host, but this would require cooperation
and assistance at both ends. Many discussions of the actual process
are in the archives of this list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From peter at gigamonkeys.com  Sun Dec 11 17:46:01 2005
From: peter at gigamonkeys.com (Peter Seibel)
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 08:46:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confused about data/aliases* permissions
Message-ID: <24E37F47-C6CF-4243-8655-5900A744F034@gigamonkeys.com>

I'm trying to install Mailman on a GNU/Linux box with Postfix.  
Following the instructions in the installation manual a chown'd data/ 
aliases* to mailman:mailman. However when I try to create a group  
from the web interface I get an error because postalias can't write  
data/aliases.db. I got it to work by changing the ownership to  
nobody:nobody (since the webserver run's as nobody) but that doesn't  
seem right. What am I doing wrong here?

-Peter

-- 
Peter Seibel           * peter at gigamonkeys.com
Gigamonkeys Consulting * http://www.gigamonkeys.com/
Practical Common Lisp  * http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/




From peter at gigamonkeys.com  Sun Dec 11 17:56:13 2005
From: peter at gigamonkeys.com (Peter Seibel)
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 08:56:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confused about data/aliases* permissions
In-Reply-To: <24E37F47-C6CF-4243-8655-5900A744F034@gigamonkeys.com>
References: <24E37F47-C6CF-4243-8655-5900A744F034@gigamonkeys.com>
Message-ID: <8210627D-6441-4988-8D9F-8E6312581CBB@gigamonkeys.com>


On Dec 11, 2005, at 8:46 AM, Peter Seibel wrote:

> I'm trying to install Mailman on a GNU/Linux box with Postfix.
> Following the instructions in the installation manual a chown'd data/
> aliases* to mailman:mailman. However when I try to create a group
> from the web interface I get an error because postalias can't write
> data/aliases.db. I got it to work by changing the ownership to
> nobody:nobody (since the webserver run's as nobody) but that doesn't
> seem right. What am I doing wrong here?

Hmmm, it seems that chmod'ing data/aliases.db to 0660 does the trick-- 
now I can create lists both from the command line as a member of the  
mailman group and from the web. Is that the correct fix?

-Peter

-- 
Peter Seibel           * peter at gigamonkeys.com
Gigamonkeys Consulting * http://www.gigamonkeys.com/
Practical Common Lisp  * http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/




From msapiro at value.net  Sun Dec 11 18:10:32 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 09:10:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confused about data/aliases* permissions
In-Reply-To: <8210627D-6441-4988-8D9F-8E6312581CBB@gigamonkeys.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020051211091032045591974267@msapiro>

Peter Seibel wrote:
>
>Hmmm, it seems that chmod'ing data/aliases.db to 0660 does the trick-- 
>now I can create lists both from the command line as a member of the  
>mailman group and from the web. Is that the correct fix?

Yes, it is. The mail wrapper and the various cgi-bin wrappers are all
SETGID mailman. This is the basis of Mailman's security. The wrappers
test to see that they were invoked by the appropriate group (built in
by configure), and run as group mailman. Thus files should usually be
group mailman and have any requisite permissions at the group level as
well as the owner. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp>
for more detail on this.

The real issue is bin/check_perms doesn't check aliases.db. This is a
known problem; see
<https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1204386&group_id=103>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From tmz at pobox.com  Sun Dec 11 19:01:55 2005
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 13:01:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confused about data/aliases* permissions
In-Reply-To: <PC174020051211091032045591974267@msapiro>
References: <8210627D-6441-4988-8D9F-8E6312581CBB@gigamonkeys.com>
	<PC174020051211091032045591974267@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20051211180155.GS12215@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> The real issue is bin/check_perms doesn't check aliases.db. This is a
> known problem; see
> <https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1204386&group_id=103>.

I made a small patch for this a while back and sent it to the list,
but it never made it in.  At the least, the docs covering Postfix
installation ought to be updated so that anyone following them isn't
left wondering what's wrong.  I'll attach the patch again (reworked
against a fresh CVS checkout since README.POSTFIX is now rolled into
mailman-install.*).  Hope this helps someone...

(I'd attach this to the tracker item listed above, but I have no idea
how to do that from a quick look at the SF site.)

-- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
I have to decide between two equally frightening options.  If I wanted
to do that, I'd vote.
    -- Duckman

-------------- next part --------------
Index: Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py,v
retrieving revision 2.23
diff -u -r2.23 Postfix.py
--- Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py	27 Aug 2005 01:54:02 -0000	2.23
+++ Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py	11 Dec 2005 17:42:17 -0000
@@ -339,7 +339,7 @@
                 owner = pwd.getpwuid(stat[ST_UID])[0]
             except KeyError:
                 owner = 'uid %d' % stat[ST_UID]
-            print _('%(dbfile)s owned by %(owner)s (must be owned by %(user)s')
+            print _('%(dbfile)s owned by %(owner)s (must be owned by %(user)s'),
             state.ERRORS += 1
             if state.FIX:
                 print _('(fixing)')
@@ -348,3 +348,12 @@
                 os.chown(dbfile, uid, gid)
             else:
                 print
+        if stat and (stat[ST_MODE] & targetmode) <> targetmode:
+            state.ERRORS += 1
+            octmode = oct(stat[ST_MODE])
+            print _('%(dbfile)s permissions must be 066x (got %(octmode)s)'),
+            if state.FIX:
+                print _('(fixing)')
+                os.chmod(dbfile, stat[ST_MODE] | targetmode)
+            else:
+                print
Index: doc/mailman-install.tex
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/doc/mailman-install.tex,v
retrieving revision 1.2
diff -u -r1.2 mailman-install.tex
--- doc/mailman-install.tex	28 Aug 2005 04:06:59 -0000	1.2
+++ doc/mailman-install.tex	11 Dec 2005 17:42:19 -0000
@@ -472,13 +472,14 @@
       \end{verbatim}
 
       Make sure that the owner of the \file{data/aliases} and
-      \file{data/aliases.db} file is \code{mailman} and that the group owner
+      \file{data/aliases.db} file is \code{mailman}, that the group owner
       for those files is \code{mailman}, or whatever user and group you used
-      in the configure command:
+      in the configure command, and that both files are group writable:
 
       \begin{verbatim}
         % su
         % chown mailman:mailman data/aliases*
+        % chmod g+w data/aliases*
       \end{verbatim}
 
 \item Hack your Postfix's \file{main.cf} file to include the following path in
-------------- next part --------------
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From msapiro at value.net  Sun Dec 11 19:39:29 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 10:39:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need help with a mailman archiving issue
In-Reply-To: <auto-000032704982@ca.mci.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512111039290752e5c7712d@msapiro>

Richard Feltham wrote:

>I posted previously about an issue we have been having with the archive
>links.
>Another project came up, and this item got dropped. I now have a bit of time
>to spare, and thought I would try again.


Sorry for the delay. I hope you still have time :-)


>What is happening is this:
>
>When mail comes into a list, it is being dumped into
>/apps/mailman/archives/private/<listname>.mbox/<listname>.mbox
>
>As the mail comes in, it is supposed to generate/update
>/apps/mailman/archives/private/<listname>/<YYYYMMDD>/author.html,
>Date.html, index.html, subject.html, etc
>
>I can do this manually using /apps/mailman/bin/arch <listname>
>That will generate the items properly.


Have you tried doing this (bin/arch) as the mailman user or do you do
it as root or ??


>Mailman version is 2.1.5
>Mailman has been installed as user mailman, using group mailman.
>
>/apps/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py
>ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX = 2
>DEFAULT_ARCHIVE_PRIVATE = 1


Not necessary, as they don't change the defaults, but shouldn't be a
problem.


>/apps/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py
>ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX = 2
>DEFAULT_ARCHIVE_PRIVATE = 1
>PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = No
>PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_FILE_DIR = os.path.join(VAR_PREFIX, 'archives', 'private')
>
>
>Permissions on the
>/apps/mailan/archives/private directories are:
>drwxrwsr-x   157 mailman mailman  10752 Oct 7 03:30 listname
>drwxrwsr-x     2 mailman mailman    512 Oct 7 03:30 listname.mbox
>
>/apps/mailman/cgi-bin/
>-rwxr-sr-x   1 mailman  mailman    37352 Oct  8  2004 admin*
>-rwxr-sr-x   1 mailman  mailman    37352 Oct  8  2004 admindb*
>-rwxr-sr-x   1 mailman  mailman    37352 Oct  8  2004 confirm*
>-rwxr-sr-x   1 mailman  mailman    37352 Oct  8  2004 create*
>-rwxr-sr-x   1 mailman  mailman    37364 Oct  8  2004 edithtml*
>-rwxr-sr-x   1 mailman  mailman    36876 Jul  3  2001 handle_opts*
>-rwxr-sr-x   1 mailman  mailman    37364 Oct  8  2004 listinfo*
>lrwxrwxrwx   1 root     mailman        1 Apr  8  2005 mailman -> ./
>-rwxr-sr-x   1 mailman  mailman    37352 Oct  8  2004 options*
>-rwxr-sr-x   1 mailman  mailman    37352 Oct  8  2004 private*
>-rwxr-sr-x   1 mailman  mailman    37352 Oct  8  2004 rmlist*
>-rwxr-sr-x   1 mailman  mailman    37352 Oct  8  2004 roster*
>-rwxr-sr-x   1 mailman  mailman    37364 Oct  8  2004 subscribe*
>
>
>/apps/mailman/bin/
>-rw-r-----   1 root     mailman    45872 Nov  2  2004 --
>-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman  mailman     7618 Oct  8  2004 add_members*
>-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman  mailman     5412 Oct  8  2004 arch*
>-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman  mailman     2565 Oct  8  2004 b4b5-archfix*
>-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman  mailman     6136 Oct  8  2004 change_pw*
>-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman  mailman     4270 Oct  8  2004 check_db*
>-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman  mailman    12134 Oct  8  2004 check_perms*
>-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman  mailman     5498 Oct  8  2004 cleanarch*
>-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman  mailman     6415 Oct  8  2004 clone_member*
>-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman  mailman    12332 Oct  8  2004 config_list*
>-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman  mailman     1505 Oct  8  2004 convert.py*
>-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman  mailman     4474 Jul  3  2001 digest_arch*
>-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman  mailman     3244 Oct  8  2004 discard*
>-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman  mailman     4405 Oct  8  2004 dumpdb*
>-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman  mailman     4957 Oct  8  2004 find_member*
>-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman  mailman     2639 Oct  8  2004 fix_url.py*
>-rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman     2548 Feb 16  2005 fix_url.pyc
>-rwxr-xr--   1 root     mailman     2377 Sep 29 15:53 fixfooter.py*
>-rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman     2308 Sep 29 16:14 fixfooter.pyc
>-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman  mailman     3103 Oct  8  2004 genaliases*
>-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman  mailman     2821 Oct  8  2004 inject*
>-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman  mailman     2567 Oct  8  2004 list_admins*
>-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman  mailman     3335 Oct  8  2004 list_lists*
>-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman  mailman     8322 Oct  8  2004 list_members*
>-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman  mailman     3171 Oct  8  2004 list_owners*
>-rw-r--r--   1 mailman  mailman      113 Nov 14  2003 listaddr.py
>-rw-r--r--   1 mailman  mailman      393 Nov 14  2003 listaddr.pyc
>-rwxr-x---   1 root     mailman     1885 Nov  2  2004 listcfg*
>-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman  mailman     1866 Jul  9  2001 listinfo*
>-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman  mailman    21129 Oct  8  2004 mailmanctl*
>-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman  mailman     2995 Oct  8  2004 mmsitepass*
>-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman  mailman     2440 Jul  3  2001 move_list*
>-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman  mailman     5530 Oct  8  2004 msgfmt.py*
>-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman  mailman     7133 Oct  8  2004 newlist*
>-rwx------   1 mailman  mailman      752 Nov  5  2001 nightly_arch.sh*
>-rw-r--r--   1 mailman  mailman     2407 Oct  8  2004 paths.py
>-rw-r--r--   1 mailman  mailman      663 Oct  8  2004 paths.pyc
>-rwxr-sr-x   1 mailman  mailman     9202 Oct  8  2004 qrunner*
>-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman  mailman     2963 Oct  8  2004 rb-archfix*
>-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman  mailman     4705 Oct  8  2004 remove_members*
>-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman  mailman     4262 Oct  8  2004 rmlist*
>-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman  mailman     1352 Oct  8  2004 show_qfiles*
>-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman  mailman     9670 Oct  8  2004 sync_members*
>-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman  mailman    12005 Oct  8  2004 transcheck*
>-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman  mailman     2292 Oct  8  2004 unshunt*
>-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman  mailman    29654 Oct  8  2004 update*
>-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman  mailman      969 Oct  8  2004 version*
>-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman  mailman     8388 Oct  8  2004 withlist*


Permissions seem OK. How do you run bin/mailmanctl to start Mailman?
Normally it is run as root and then it can set the user/group for the
qrunners.

This is the relevant code from Archiver.py

        if mm_cfg.ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX in (1, 2):
            self.__archive_to_mbox(msg)
            if mm_cfg.ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX == 1:
                # Archive to mbox only.
                return
        txt = str(msg)
        # should we use the internal or external archiver?
        private_p = self.archive_private
        if mm_cfg.PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER and not private_p:
            self.ExternalArchive(mm_cfg.PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER, txt)
        elif mm_cfg.PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER and private_p:
            self.ExternalArchive(mm_cfg.PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER, txt)
        else:
            # use the internal archiver
            f = StringIO(txt)
            import HyperArch
            h = HyperArch.HyperArchive(self)
            h.processUnixMailbox(f)
            h.close()
            f.close()

In your case, the message is archived in the .mbox file and
mm_cfg.ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX is not 1 so we don't return at that point.
(Note that mm_cfg.py imports everything from Defaults.py so any
mm_cfg.X that isn't defined in mm_cfg.py gets its value from
Defaults.py.)

Then, since mm_cfg.*_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER have their default values of No
(which is false in an if), we fall through the if - elif to the else
where we call the HyperArch.HyperArchive.processUnixMailbox() method
to add the message to the HTML archive. This apparently fails, but it
is the exact same method called by bin/arch to do the archiving, and
it works when bin/arch calls it.

It seems that this must be some kind of permissions or SELinux issue
relating to a difference in the way ArchRunner is run vs. the way
bin/arch is run.

Are there any entries in Mailman's error or qrunner logs from a post to
the list?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Dec 11 19:45:24 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 10:45:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confused about data/aliases* permissions
In-Reply-To: <20051211180155.GS12215@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
Message-ID: <PC174020051211104524078344b06f27@msapiro>

Todd Zullinger wrote:
>
>(I'd attach this to the tracker item listed above, but I have no idea
>how to do that from a quick look at the SF site.)

Create an account if necessary and log in (links just left of search
box at top right of pages). Then you will be able to add a comment.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ee at uncanny.net  Sun Dec 11 22:23:37 2005
From: ee at uncanny.net (Edward Elhauge)
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 13:23:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman bails during "Administrative requests"
Message-ID: <20051211212337.GA32086@uncanny.net>

I'd like some help on dealing with this problem permanently. I've been
getting this behavior every couple of months and haven't found a good
solution yet.

The way it happens is that I'm on the "Administrative requests" page for
some mailing list and when I submit the deletion requests I get the
following reply from the browser:
    Bug in Mailman version 2.1.6

    We're sorry, we hit a bug!

    Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of
    traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited,
    but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs.

Usually you can then go back an delete individual entries, but there
will be one or more that produce the error, with this sort of traceback
(below):

I take it that the email in question (SPAM email) isn't properly
encoded. Any idea on how to get around this problem? In the past I've
gone into the queues and deleted files, etc, but the process isn't easy,
and of course I won't get any cooperation from the SPAMers sending the
messages.

The OS is FreeBSD 4.9 and Mailman is 2.1.6_1, built from source.

========== TRACEBACK START
Dec 11 13:13:52 2005 admin(10012):
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
admin(10012): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.6 -----]
admin(10012): [----- Traceback ------]
admin(10012): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(10012):   File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/driver", line 101, in
run_main
admin(10012):     main()
admin(10012):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line
163, in main
admin(10012):     process_form(mlist, doc, cgidata)
admin(10012):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line
713, in process_form
admin(10012):     forward, forwardaddr)
admin(10012):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line
167, in HandleRequest
admin(10012):     forward, addr)
admin(10012):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line
353, in __handlepost
admin(10012):     syslog('vette', note)
admin(10012):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Syslog.py",
line 40, in write
admin(10012):     self.write_ex(kind, msg, args, kws)
admin(10012):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Syslog.py",
line 58, in write_ex
admin(10012):     logf.write(msg + '\n')
admin(10012):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/StampedLogger.py", line 73, in write
admin(10012):     Logger.write(self, "%s %s" % (prefix, msg))
admin(10012):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Logger.py",
line 91, in write
admin(10012):     f.write(msg)
admin(10012): UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character
u'\xf3' in position 99: ordinal not in range(128)
admin(10012): [----- Python Information -----]
admin(10012): sys.version     =   2.4.2 (#2, Nov  7 2005, 19:05:41) 
[GCC 2.95.4 20020320 [FreeBSD]] 
admin(10012): sys.executable  =   /usr/local/bin/python 
admin(10012): sys.prefix      =   /usr/local
admin(10012): sys.exec_prefix =   /usr/local 
admin(10012): sys.path        =   /usr/local
admin(10012): sys.platform    =   freebsd4 
admin(10012): [----- Environment Variables -----]
admin(10012):   HTTP_REFERER:
http://list.uncanny.net/mailman/admindb/wsa-talk
admin(10012):   SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/1.3.33 
admin(10012):   SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/admindb 
admin(10012):   SERVER_SIGNATURE: <ADDRESS>Apache/1.3.33 Server at
list.uncanny.net Port 80</ADDRESS>
admin(10012):   
admin(10012):   REQUEST_METHOD: POST 
admin(10012):   HTTP_KEEP_ALIVE: 300 
admin(10012):   SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1 
admin(10012):   QUERY_STRING:  
admin(10012):   CONTENT_LENGTH: 61108 
admin(10012):   HTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET: ISO-8859-1, utf-8;q=0.66, *;q=0.66
admin(10012):   HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US;
rv:0.9.2.1) Gecko/20010901
admin(10012):   HTTP_CONNECTION: keep-alive 
admin(10012):   HTTP_COOKIE:
admin(10012):   SERVER_NAME: list.uncanny.net
admin(10012):   REMOTE_ADDR: 192.168.49.49
admin(10012):   PATH_TRANSLATED:
/Web/hosts/list.uncanny.net/public_html/wsa-talk
admin(10012):   SERVER_PORT: 80
admin(10012):   SERVER_ADDR: 192.168.100.225
admin(10012):   DOCUMENT_ROOT: /Web/hosts/list.uncanny.net/public_html
admin(10012):   PYTHONPATH: /usr/local/mailman
admin(10012):   SCRIPT_FILENAME:
/Web/hosts/list.uncanny.net/public_html/mailman/admindb
admin(10012):   SERVER_ADMIN: webmaster at uncanny.net
admin(10012):   HTTP_HOST: list.uncanny.net
admin(10012):   REQUEST_URI: /mailman/admindb/wsa-talk
admin(10012):   HTTP_ACCEPT: text/xml, application/xml,
application/xhtml+xml, text/html;q=0.9, image/png, image/jpeg,
image/gif;q=0.2, text/plain;q=0.8, text/css, */*;q=0.1
admin(10012):   GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1
admin(10012):   REMOTE_PORT: 33142
admin(10012):   HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: en-us
admin(10012):   CONTENT_TYPE: application/x-www-form-urlencoded
admin(10012):   HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip,deflate,compress,identity
admin(10012):   UNIQUE_ID: Q5yWc8CoZOEAACbkeKA
admin(10012):   PATH_INFO: /wsa-talk
========== TRACEBACK END

-- 
        Edward Elhauge <ee at uncanny.net>
"One allows himself to be fooled once, to be fooled twice; but he
who permits himself always to be fooled remains a fool." -- Rudolf Rocker


From jp at warpix.org  Mon Dec 12 01:45:24 2005
From: jp at warpix.org (John Poltorak)
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 00:45:24 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Authorisation for creating new list
Message-ID: <20051212004524.Y47@warpix.org>


I'm trying to create a new list via the admin web interface but am told 
that I'm not authorised. How does Mailman identify who is authorised?


-- 
John





From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Dec 12 02:42:02 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 02:42:02 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Authorisation for creating new list
In-Reply-To: <20051212004524.Y47@warpix.org>
References: <20051212004524.Y47@warpix.org>
Message-ID: <p06200765bfc285921179@[10.0.1.210]>

At 12:45 AM +0000 2005-12-12, John Poltorak wrote:

>  I'm trying to create a new list via the admin web interface but am told
>  that I'm not authorised. How does Mailman identify who is authorised?

	The password you use.  You either need to use the "list creators" 
password, or the "site manager" password.  You should have created 
those at the command-line with with mmsitepass when you installed 
Mailman.  Alternatively, someone else should have created those 
passwords when they installed Mailman, and they should have shared 
them with you if they wanted you to be able to create new mailing 
lists.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From jp at warpix.org  Mon Dec 12 09:27:19 2005
From: jp at warpix.org (John Poltorak)
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 08:27:19 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Authorisation for creating new list
In-Reply-To: <p06200765bfc285921179@[10.0.1.210]>;
	from Brad Knowles on Mon, Dec 12, 2005 at 02:42:02AM +0100
References: <20051212004524.Y47@warpix.org>
	<p06200765bfc285921179@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <20051212082719.Z47@warpix.org>

On Mon, Dec 12, 2005 at 02:42:02AM +0100, Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 12:45 AM +0000 2005-12-12, John Poltorak wrote:
> 
> >  I'm trying to create a new list via the admin web interface but am told
> >  that I'm not authorised. How does Mailman identify who is authorised?
> 
> 	The password you use.  You either need to use the "list creators" 
> password, or the "site manager" password.  You should have created 
> those at the command-line with with mmsitepass when you installed 
> Mailman.  Alternatively, someone else should have created those 
> passwords when they installed Mailman, and they should have shared 
> them with you if they wanted you to be able to create new mailing 
> lists.

I installed Mailman but it was such a long time ago that I've forgotten 
the password. Is there any way to discover it?

 
> -- 
> Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
> 
> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
> 
>      -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
>      Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
> 
>   LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


-- 
John




From alexs at ecoscentric.com  Mon Dec 12 11:53:57 2005
From: alexs at ecoscentric.com (Alex Schuilenburg)
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 10:53:57 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to silently,
	automatically reject ALL"implicit destination" messages?
Message-ID: <439D56C5.4030806@ecoscentric.com>

We get a large amount of spam to our unmoderated lists and as moderator
I am getting tired of rejecting "implicit destination" messages. They
are always spam - no sensible poster BCC's and all list aliases are covered.

Looking through the list archives there was talk about this feature
being added into 2.1 and then possibly not making it :-(

Are there any hidden config settings that will allow me to do this in
2.1.5 or has anyone made such mods and is willing to share the patch
with me?

Thanks
-- Alex



From jp at warpix.org  Mon Dec 12 13:13:36 2005
From: jp at warpix.org (John Poltorak)
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 12:13:36 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman & Zope
Message-ID: <20051212121336.E47@warpix.org>


How do I configure a Mailman list for a website which is Zope based?

I guess some entries in Apaches configuration file need to distinguish 
between Zope based pages and Apache pages for a given virtual host, but  
I've no idea how to do this.

Can anyone give me an example?

-- 
John





From pmoss at fcg.com  Mon Dec 12 14:56:56 2005
From: pmoss at fcg.com (Moss, Patricia)
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 08:56:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Importing and the size of archives
Message-ID: <30A2052826E26449AEEF1D745E38C75201CCCE20@pant03.fcg.com>

I am running mailman version 2.1.5-33 on a RedHat Linux ES4.0 server.

I am attempting to import an archive into one of my lists. I am using
the following syntax:

/var/mailman/bin/arch --wipe documentumdevelopers

Which seems to import the file; However, for some reason one of the
messages is getting cut off.  The remainder of the cut-off message is
being recreated as an archive with today's date. The next message in the
queue, of this archive, is imported with no problems.

Is there a message length setting, or something like that, that could be
causing this message to be cut off? 

 

Pati Moss

Unix Systems Administrator

"UNIX is user friendly. It's just picky about who it's friends with."



This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.


From tmz at pobox.com  Mon Dec 12 16:06:58 2005
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 10:06:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Importing and the size of archives
In-Reply-To: <30A2052826E26449AEEF1D745E38C75201CCCE20@pant03.fcg.com>
References: <30A2052826E26449AEEF1D745E38C75201CCCE20@pant03.fcg.com>
Message-ID: <20051212150657.GA12215@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Moss, Patricia wrote:
> I am attempting to import an archive into one of my lists. I am using
> the following syntax:
>
> /var/mailman/bin/arch --wipe documentumdevelopers
>
> Which seems to import the file; However, for some reason one of the
> messages is getting cut off.  The remainder of the cut-off message is
> being recreated as an archive with today's date. The next message in the
> queue, of this archive, is imported with no problems.
>
> Is there a message length setting, or something like that, that could be
> causing this message to be cut off? 

Take a look at the mbox archive in an editor.  Search for the text in
the message that isn't being archived properly and see if it doesn't
contain an unquoted From (a line that beings with "From " in the body.
If you find one, make the line read >From and try the import again.
I've had this happen to me numerous times when importing old archives.

- -- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked
something.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.

iG0EARECAC0FAkOdkhEmGGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucG9ib3guY29tL350bXovcGdwL3Rt
ei5hc2MACgkQuv+09NZUB1rCXQCeN9QAqHougNrDbCI6mv6ScGAUiwcAoM+4gJV8
S090oeoX3QEoMdVySQiS
=v2E+
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From dave at dpss.bz  Mon Dec 12 16:50:01 2005
From: dave at dpss.bz (Dave B)
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 09:50:01 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permissions problem accessing commands via php
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200512101038500265ccca3a5b@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200512101038500265ccca3a5b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <bfcbad6944c590b012cc1ca32b82da15@dpss.bz>

I am guessing that this is a bad idea but I want to ask anyway. PHP 
runs as the Apache user which is www. I have added www to the mailman 
group and this works. I have since removed it but wanted to see whether 
that created too much of a security risk?

Thanks - Dave

On Dec 10, 2005, at 12:38 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>
>
> ----- Original Message ---------------
>
> Dave B wrote:
>
>> Does it use the umask setting? If so, it should be setting permissions
>> to 644 (umask is 022) instead of the 660 that it sets.
>
>
> It uses umask, but it sets it to 007 before creating the new file and
> restores it afterword, because it specifically doesn't want the file
> readable by 'other' as it contains plain text passwords. BTW, 644
> isn't good. It should be 664 (umask = 002) to do what you want as
> files should be group writable, but it isn't critical in the case of
> config.pck because it's always a new file that's written - the old one
> is only read.
>
>
>> Is there a way
>> to change what it uses as  standard permissions?
>
>
> Only by changing the code in MailList.py.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>
>



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec 12 18:31:50 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 09:31:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Authorisation for creating new list
In-Reply-To: <20051212082719.Z47@warpix.org>
Message-ID: <PC174020051212093150054645204af4@msapiro>

John Poltorak wrote:
>
>I installed Mailman but it was such a long time ago that I've forgotten 
>the password. Is there any way to discover it?

The encrypted passwords are in data/adm.pw and data/creator.pw.
Possibly you could crack them, but the easy way is to just use
bin/mmsitepass to set new ones.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec 12 18:40:31 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 09:40:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Importing and the size of archives
In-Reply-To: <20051212150657.GA12215@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512120940310531faebf932@msapiro>

Todd Zullinger 
>
>Moss, Patricia wrote:
>>
>> Is there a message length setting, or something like that, that could be
>> causing this message to be cut off? 
>
>Take a look at the mbox archive in an editor.  Search for the text in
>the message that isn't being archived properly and see if it doesn't
>contain an unquoted From (a line that beings with "From " in the body.
>If you find one, make the line read >From and try the import again.
>I've had this happen to me numerous times when importing old archives.

The script bin/cleanarch can help with this. See

bin/cleanarch --help

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec 12 19:02:20 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 10:02:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permissions problem accessing commands via php
In-Reply-To: <bfcbad6944c590b012cc1ca32b82da15@dpss.bz>
Message-ID: <PC17402005121210022001405ac80740@msapiro>

Dave B wrote:

>I am guessing that this is a bad idea but I want to ask anyway. PHP 
>runs as the Apache user which is www. I have added www to the mailman 
>group and this works. I have since removed it but wanted to see whether 
>that created too much of a security risk?

It allows apache to access Mailman files without going through the
Mailman cgi-bin wrappers. Of course, by making permissions = 664 on
config.pck, you allow even greater access to those files.

The problem is that if someone can craft a URL or XSS attack or ? to
retrieve a config.pck file directly, they can get the membership list
and the plain text member passwords. Also, they can do something
similar to get private archive files.

A perhaps better way to do this since you said in the OP that you are
the only one with shell access to the server, is to make the bin/
scripts you want to use group mailman and SETGID. Then they should
work no matter how they are run.

The best way is to do as John Dennis suggested and create a SETGID
wrapper to be executed by your PHP scripts. The wrapper would check to
insure it was properly invoked before calling the appropriate bin/*
script.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec 12 19:39:36 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 10:39:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to silently,
	automatically reject ALL"implicit destination" messages?
In-Reply-To: <439D56C5.4030806@ecoscentric.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512121039360234213f090e@msapiro>

Alex Schuilenburg wrote:

>We get a large amount of spam to our unmoderated lists and as moderator
>I am getting tired of rejecting "implicit destination" messages. They
>are always spam - no sensible poster BCC's and all list aliases are covered.
>
>Looking through the list archives there was talk about this feature
>being added into 2.1 and then possibly not making it :-(
>
>Are there any hidden config settings that will allow me to do this in
>2.1.5 or has anyone made such mods and is willing to share the patch
>with me?


If you want to unconditionally do what the subject of this message
says, I think the patch is pretty simple, but I haven't tested it at
all so beware.

In the module Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py you will see

    #
    # Implicit destination?  Note that message originating from the
Usenet
    # side of the world should never be checked for implicit
destination.
    if mlist.require_explicit_destination and \
           not mlist.HasExplicitDest(msg) and \
           not msgdata.get('fromusenet'):
        # then
        hold_for_approval(mlist, msg, msgdata, ImplicitDestination)
        # no return


I think all you need to do is replace

        hold_for_approval(mlist, msg, msgdata, ImplicitDestination)

with

        raise Errors.DiscardMessage

The discard will still be logged in 'vette', but otherwise, the message
will just disappear.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From chris at beowulf.net  Mon Dec 12 21:19:25 2005
From: chris at beowulf.net (Chris Stankaitis)
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 15:19:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrate Mailman from old to new server
Message-ID: <439DDB4D.1020706@beowulf.net>

Is there a FAQ/HowTo out there someone can point me at to cover moving
Mailman from one server to another, and bumping the version in the process.

I need to know how to specifically export/import the list config
Re-Add the subscribers

I know how to move and regen the archives, but I need a little help with
the list configs themselves.

Thanks

--Chris


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec 12 21:55:01 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 12:55:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrate Mailman from old to new server
In-Reply-To: <439DDB4D.1020706@beowulf.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512121255010328074a3989@msapiro>

Chris Stankaitis wrote:
>
>I need to know how to specifically export/import the list config
>Re-Add the subscribers
>
>I know how to move and regen the archives, but I need a little help with
>the list configs themselves.

Most of what you need is accomplished by just moving the lists/listname
directories and their contents. The config.pck (or config.db for pre
2.1) files have the list config and membership information.

See the post at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-December/047982.html>
for more detail. Also, a search of this lists archives should turn up
a lot more.

One other thing not mentioned in the above post. If the domain names
are different on the new server, you will need to run fix_url after
moving the lists. Run bin/fix_url.py for instructions and see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp>
for more info.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From smielke at famsi.org  Mon Dec 12 22:49:59 2005
From: smielke at famsi.org (smielke at famsi.org)
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 16:49:59 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] different moderators for different hours/days
Message-ID: <011901c5ff65$ffaf8580$2901a8c0@famsi12>

Can Mailman be setup so that if there are 3 moderators, there can be one 'moderator on duty' that receives all the mail for a specific day?  So if one moderator works on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, can Mailman be setup with some type of schedule in which it know whose moderating on a specific day and will only send the mail to that moderator?

Thanks.

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec 12 23:04:28 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 14:04:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] different moderators for different hours/days
In-Reply-To: <011901c5ff65$ffaf8580$2901a8c0@famsi12>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512121404280531bd15e8cf@msapiro>

<smielke at famsi.org> wrote:

>Can Mailman be setup so that if there are 3 moderators, there can be one 'moderator on duty' that receives all the mail for a specific day?  So if one moderator works on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, can Mailman be setup with some type of schedule in which it know whose moderating on a specific day and will only send the mail to that moderator?


Not directly.

Since who is able to actually do the moderation is controlled only by
knowledge of the moderator password, and the value of the list's
moderator attribute only determines who gets the mail, you could set
up a few different input files for bin/config_list to set the
different moderators and run those on a schedule via cron.

You could also just have moderator always go to some forwarding address
and change where that ultimately goes on a schedule via cron.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jp at warpix.org  Tue Dec 13 01:05:37 2005
From: jp at warpix.org (John Poltorak)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 00:05:37 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Suspending a list
Message-ID: <20051213000537.L47@warpix.org>


Is there any way to temporarily suspend a list?

-- 
John





From kig at telekom.ru  Tue Dec 13 01:14:35 2005
From: kig at telekom.ru (=?Windows-1251?B?yu7i4Ovl7eruIMji4O0=?=)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 03:14:35 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Suspending a list
In-Reply-To: <20051213000537.L47@warpix.org>
References: <20051213000537.L47@warpix.org>
Message-ID: <125225732.20051213031435@telekom.ru>

As i got from earlier responses - you've got to move the list out of
the lists/ dir. This will suspend it and no one become harmed.

JP> Is there any way to temporarily suspend a list?








From gary.stainburn at ringways.co.uk  Tue Dec 13 10:51:06 2005
From: gary.stainburn at ringways.co.uk (Gary Stainburn)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:51:06 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman port RH7.3/2.0.13 to FC4/2.1.5/Exim4
Message-ID: <200512130951.06990.gary.stainburn@ringways.co.uk>

Hi folks

I'm trying to port my existing mailman setup to my new server.  I've made note 
of the change of filesystem layout and followed the instructions for 
connecting to Exim4. I've configured Apache and the web interface to 
mailman's working fine.  I can perform admin functions and view the archives 
fine.

However, I've missed or messed something because I've got two possibly related 
problems.

1) starting the new service fails as below:

[root at stan1 ~]# service mailman start
Starting mailman: Site list is missing: mailman
                                                           [FAILED]
[root at stan1 ~]#

In /var/log/mailman/error it shows:

[root at stan1 ~]# tail -f /var/log/mailman/error
Dec 12 22:42:15 2005 mailmanctl(5556): Site list is missing: mailman
Dec 12 22:42:15 2005 (5556) Site list is missing: mailman

2) sending emails doesn't work. I've configured exim4 as described (fixing the 
path problem to the config.pck). I've included the bits I've added as well as 
the extract from /var/log/exim/main.log that shows the incoming email being 
processed.  There are no other log entries however, not in messages, 
main.log, or mailman/error.

[root at stan1 ~]# tail -f /var/log/exim/main.log
2005-12-12 21:44:23 1ElvT5-0001MZ-2E <= gary.stainburn at ringways.co.uk 
H=localhost (stan1.ringways.co.uk) [127.0.0.1] P=esmtp S=1240 
id=200512122144.22648.gary.stainburn at ringways.co.uk
2005-12-12 21:44:24 1ElvT5-0001MZ-2E => nec <nec-request at revcom.org.uk> 
R=mailman_router T=mailman_transport
2005-12-12 21:44:24 1ElvT5-0001MZ-2E Completed
2005-12-12 22:44:38 1ElwPO-0001Ro-Ig <= gary.stainburn at ringways.co.uk 
H=localhost (stan1.ringways.co.uk) [127.0.0.1] P=esmtp S=1227 
id=200512122244.37332.gary.stainburn at ringways.co.uk
2005-12-12 22:44:39 1ElwPO-0001Ro-Ig => nec <nec at revcom.org.uk> 
R=mailman_router T=mailman_transport
2005-12-12 22:44:39 1ElwPO-0001Ro-Ig Completed
2005-12-12 22:45:40 1ElwQN-0001S6-PL <= gary.stainburn at revcom.org.uk 
H=localhost (stan1.ringways.co.uk) [127.0.0.1] P=esmtp S=1225 
id=200512122245.39015.gary.stainburn at revcom.org.uk
2005-12-12 22:45:40 1ElwQN-0001S6-PL => nec <nec at revcom.org.uk> 
R=mailman_router T=mailman_transport
2005-12-12 22:45:40 1ElwQN-0001S6-PL Completed

/etc/exim/exim/conf extract

# ADDED 2005-12-12 GPS for mailman
  # Home dir for your Mailman installation -- aka Mailman's prefix
  # directory. (MAILMAN_VAR added by GPS)
  MAILMAN_HOME=/usr/lib/mailman
  MAILMAN_VAR=/var/lib/mailman
  MAILMAN_WRAP=MAILMAN_HOME/mail/mailman

  # User and group for Mailman, should match your --with-mail-gid
  # switch to Mailman's configure script.
  MAILMAN_USER=mailman
  MAILMAN_GROUP=mailman

mailman_router:
  driver = accept
  require_files = MAILMAN_VAR/lists/$local_part/config.pck
  local_part_suffix_optional
  local_part_suffix = -bounces : -bounces+* : \
                      -confirm+* : -join : -leave : \
                      -owner : -request : -admin
  transport = mailman_transport

# ADDED 2005-12-12 GPS mailman router
  mailman_transport:
    driver = pipe
    command = MAILMAN_WRAP \
              '${if def:local_part_suffix \
                    {${sg{$local_part_suffix}{-(\\w+)(\\+.*)?}{\$1}}} \
                    {post}}' \
              $local_part
    current_directory = MAILMAN_HOME
    home_directory = MAILMAN_HOME
    user = MAILMAN_USER
    group = MAILMAN_GROUP
-- 
Gary Stainburn
 
This email does not contain private or confidential material as it
may be snooped on by interested government parties for unknown
and undisclosed purposes - Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act, 2000     



From alexs at ecoscentric.com  Tue Dec 13 12:44:28 2005
From: alexs at ecoscentric.com (Alex Schuilenburg)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:44:28 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to silently,
 automatically reject ALL"implicit destination" messages?
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200512121039360234213f090e@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200512121039360234213f090e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <439EB41C.2040401@ecoscentric.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
[...]
>>Are there any hidden config settings that will allow me to do this in
>>2.1.5 or has anyone made such mods and is willing to share the patch
>>with me?
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to unconditionally do what the subject of this message
> says, I think the patch is pretty simple, but I haven't tested it at
> all so beware.
[...]

Thanks. It works a real treat.

After feedback from the other list managers at our site, I have in fact
modified it further to send a reject message rather than blindly
dropping it (my preference). If anyone else is interested I did this by
replacing your

  raise Errors.DiscardMessage

with

  raise Errors.RejectMessage(_('''Your message was automatically
rejected. Blind carbon copies or other implicit destinations are not
allowed. Try reposting your message by explicitly including the list
address in the To: or Cc: fields.'''))

Hopefully sometime I will get the time to clean this up to actually make
this an option, rather than modify the normal behaviour. i.e. The
options for "require_explicit_destination" become
     No | Hold for Approval | Reject | Discard
	
Does anyone else think this a useful change?

-- Alex



From pmoss at fcg.com  Tue Dec 13 16:00:25 2005
From: pmoss at fcg.com (Moss, Patricia)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 10:00:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Searchable Archives
Message-ID: <30A2052826E26449AEEF1D745E38C75201CCCE2F@pant03.fcg.com>

I am running mailman version 2.1.5-33 on a RedHat Linux ES4.0 server.

I would like to make my archives searchable.  

I found some information in the Mailman FAQ Wizard that pointed me to a
patch.

Note:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?query=htdig&querytype=simple&ca
sefold=yes&req=search (Patch number: htdig-2.1.5-0.1.patch.gz )

I downloaded the patch, but couldn't find any doc on how to apply this
patch to an already existing installation. 

My Mailman install was done via an RPM, so I do not have a "build"
directory.  

Is there another way to apply this patch or are there other means by
which to make my archives searchable?  Thanks.

 

Pati Moss

Unix Systems Administrator

"UNIX is user friendly. It's just picky about who it's friends with."

 



This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Dec 13 17:10:37 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 08:10:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman port RH7.3/2.0.13 to FC4/2.1.5/Exim4
In-Reply-To: <200512130951.06990.gary.stainburn@ringways.co.uk>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512130810370609187cfec6@msapiro>

Gary Stainburn wrote:
>
>I'm trying to port my existing mailman setup to my new server.  I've made note 
>of the change of filesystem layout and followed the instructions for 
>connecting to Exim4. I've configured Apache and the web interface to 
>mailman's working fine.  I can perform admin functions and view the archives 
>fine.
>
>However, I've missed or messed something because I've got two possibly related 
>problems.
>
>1) starting the new service fails as below:
>
>[root at stan1 ~]# service mailman start
>Starting mailman: Site list is missing: mailman
>                                                           [FAILED]
>[root at stan1 ~]#
>
>In /var/log/mailman/error it shows:
>
>[root at stan1 ~]# tail -f /var/log/mailman/error
>Dec 12 22:42:15 2005 mailmanctl(5556): Site list is missing: mailman
>Dec 12 22:42:15 2005 (5556) Site list is missing: mailman


You have not created or moved your site list (named mailman) to the new
installation. Thus, mailmanctl refuses to start the queue runners.


>2) sending emails doesn't work. I've configured exim4 as described (fixing the 
>path problem to the config.pck). I've included the bits I've added as well as 
>the extract from /var/log/exim/main.log that shows the incoming email being 
>processed.  There are no other log entries however, not in messages, 
>main.log, or mailman/error.


The exim log looks fine. I think the messages are being delivered just
fine and are in /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/in/, but they aren't being
processed because the queue runners aren't running because of problem
1.

BTW, John Dennis has posted in the past that the FC4 Mailman package
includes a script for migrating everything from the old locations to
the new.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From gary.stainburn at ringways.co.uk  Tue Dec 13 17:19:22 2005
From: gary.stainburn at ringways.co.uk (Gary Stainburn)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:19:22 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman port RH7.3/2.0.13 to FC4/2.1.5/Exim4
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200512130810370609187cfec6@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200512130810370609187cfec6@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200512131619.23159.gary.stainburn@ringways.co.uk>

On Tuesday 13 December 2005 16:10, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> You have not created or moved your site list (named mailman) to the new
> installation. Thus, mailmanctl refuses to start the queue runners.
>

Thanks Mark.  I'd just found that and sorted it.  Unfortunately, I'd just 
removed everything mailman related and re-installed the rpms when I found it.

I then just re-edited mm_cfg.py and copied across the contents of the lists 
and archives/private directories and everything looks fine (there were no 
pending actions/messages etc.).


> >2) sending emails doesn't work. I've configured exim4 as described (fixing
> > the path problem to the config.pck). I've included the bits I've added as
> > well as the extract from /var/log/exim/main.log that shows the incoming
> > email being processed.  There are no other log entries however, not in
> > messages, main.log, or mailman/error.
>
> The exim log looks fine. I think the messages are being delivered just
> fine and are in /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/in/, but they aren't being
> processed because the queue runners aren't running because of problem
> 1.
>
> BTW, John Dennis has posted in the past that the FC4 Mailman package
> includes a script for migrating everything from the old locations to
> the new.

-- 
Gary Stainburn
 
This email does not contain private or confidential material as it
may be snooped on by interested government parties for unknown
and undisclosed purposes - Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act, 2000     


From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Dec 13 17:49:11 2005
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 01:49:11 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman & Zope
In-Reply-To: <20051212121336.E47@warpix.org> (John Poltorak's message of
	"Mon, 12 Dec 2005 12:13:36 +0000")
References: <20051212121336.E47@warpix.org>
Message-ID: <87acf5t01k.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "John" == John Poltorak <jp at warpix.org> writes:

    John> How do I configure a Mailman list for a website which is
    John> Zope based?

    John> I guess some entries in Apaches configuration file need to
    John> distinguish between Zope based pages and Apache pages for a
    John> given virtual host, but I've no idea how to do this.

What do you mean by "Zope-based"?  The simple way to run Zope uses
Zope's built-in webserver; there _is no_ Apache there.  I hope that's
not what you mean, as far as I can see trying to run Mailman in that
environment would be a world of pain.

It is very common to run Zope "behind" another webserver, such as
Apache.  I suppose that's what you mean, and "Zope-based" means that
the Apache DocumentRoot is Zope's /?  I haven't tried it, but as long
as the URLs Mailman needs are not already present in Zope, you should
be able to just ignore Zope and use a ScriptAlias to point to
Mailman's CGI and an Alias to point to the archives (if you're using
archives), as documented.  (Even if the URLs are present, Mailman
should work but Zope content will be shadowed.)


-- 
School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Dec 13 18:21:09 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:21:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Searchable Archives
In-Reply-To: <30A2052826E26449AEEF1D745E38C75201CCCE2F@pant03.fcg.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020051213092109051554f45c2c@msapiro>

Moss, Patricia wrote:

>I am running mailman version 2.1.5-33 on a RedHat Linux ES4.0 server.
>
>I would like to make my archives searchable.  
>
>I found some information in the Mailman FAQ Wizard that pointed me to a
>patch.
>
>Note:
>http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?query=htdig&querytype=simple&ca
>sefold=yes&req=search (Patch number: htdig-2.1.5-0.1.patch.gz )
>
>I downloaded the patch, but couldn't find any doc on how to apply this
>patch to an already existing installation. 


Note that the patch 'indexing-2.1.5-0.1.patch.gz'
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=444879&group_id=103&atid=300103>
is a prerequisite to this patch.


>My Mailman install was done via an RPM, so I do not have a "build"
>directory.  
>
>Is there another way to apply this patch or are there other means by
>which to make my archives searchable?  Thanks.


You could go through the patch and figure out the end results and apply
them directly to your installation, but this would involve things like
compiling a new wrapper and figuring out the options for that, ...

It would be simpler to get the source distribution and patch it and
install that over your existing installation.

The FAQ article you point to (1.11) has a link to FAQ 4.8 which
discusses using Namazu to search the archives. Be sure to also read
the list post linked from that article.

There are also links in article 1.11 to other search tools, but there
are no specific instructions for using these with Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dave at dpss.bz  Tue Dec 13 18:26:24 2005
From: dave at dpss.bz (Dave B)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:26:24 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Edit multiple users
Message-ID: <658b03d9ed180f7ed0be81805c38b460@dpss.bz>

I have approximately 30 people who are subscribed to anywhere from 1 to 
12 lists who have changed their domain from a.com to a .org. Is there a 
way to change all email addresses in all lists with their current 
domain to their new domain. I can probably write a php script that 
breaks up the string returned by find_member and then loops through and 
removes each member from each list and then adds them back with new 
address but I wanted to check and see if there is some built in way to 
do this in Mailman?

Also, is there a command in /bin for editing a user?

Thanks - Dave Bevis



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Dec 13 18:48:09 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:48:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Edit multiple users
In-Reply-To: <658b03d9ed180f7ed0be81805c38b460@dpss.bz>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512130948090234ff7fc833@msapiro>

Dave B wrote:

>I have approximately 30 people who are subscribed to anywhere from 1 to 
>12 lists who have changed their domain from a.com to a .org. Is there a 
>way to change all email addresses in all lists with their current 
>domain to their new domain.


Not directly, but ...


>I can probably write a php script that 
>breaks up the string returned by find_member and then loops through and 
>removes each member from each list and then adds them back with new 
>address but I wanted to check and see if there is some built in way to 
>do this in Mailman?
>
>Also, is there a command in /bin for editing a user?


bin/clone_member will do most of what you want, but you'll have to run
it 30 times in a shell or other script that loops through a list of
the old/new addresses and runs the command once per user.

If you meant that question in general, then no, there isn't a bin/
script (other than withlist) for changing user options in general.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From johnpford at gmail.com  Tue Dec 13 20:09:42 2005
From: johnpford at gmail.com (John Ford)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 14:09:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives and Maintaining a Thread..
Message-ID: <1e51d4f10512131109p59eea446y9bf2bfb34a7793db@mail.gmail.com>

I have some people who's email editor of choice seems to disrupt the
thread.. My first question is, Is the thread kept categorized by the subject
line?  And if so, how do I strip the RE: from the subject before it gets
sent back up to others and before it makes it to the Archive.

John


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Dec 13 21:13:48 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:13:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives and Maintaining a Thread..
In-Reply-To: <1e51d4f10512131109p59eea446y9bf2bfb34a7793db@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512131213480093ff7fc7cd@msapiro>

John Ford wrote:

>I have some people who's email editor of choice seems to disrupt the
>thread.. My first question is, Is the thread kept categorized by the subject
>line?


No. Threading in the archive is based on In-Reply-To: and/or
References: headers.


>And if so, how do I strip the RE: from the subject before it gets
>sent back up to others and before it makes it to the Archive.


If you want to strip Re:, Fwd:, etc from subjects which will affect the
archive index by subject, but not by thread, you'll need to hack the
code, and the place to do it is Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From steve at laniels.org  Tue Dec 13 22:33:23 2005
From: steve at laniels.org (Stephen R Laniel)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:33:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and virtual domains
In-Reply-To: <20051213212049.GU10613@TheloniousMonk.laniels.org>
References: <20051213212049.GU10613@TheloniousMonk.laniels.org>
Message-ID: <20051213213323.GY10613@TheloniousMonk.laniels.org>

On Tue, Dec 13, 2005 at 04:20:49PM -0500, Stephen R Laniel wrote:
> We have 2 domains, foo.com and bar.com, that are physically
> hosted on the same machine. We'd like foo.com/mailman and

Sorry, FAQ:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.047.htp

-- 
Stephen R. Laniel
steve at laniels.org
+(617) 308-5571
http://laniels.org/
PGP key: http://laniels.org/slaniel.key
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From steve at laniels.org  Tue Dec 13 22:20:49 2005
From: steve at laniels.org (Stephen R Laniel)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:20:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and virtual domains
Message-ID: <20051213212049.GU10613@TheloniousMonk.laniels.org>

We have 2 domains, foo.com and bar.com, that are physically
hosted on the same machine. We'd like foo.com/mailman and
bar.com/mailman to list completely separate lists; we'd like
people who email listname at foo.com to get a little note at
the bottom of their emails saying that if they want to
unsubscribe, they should visit foo.com/listinfo/listname,
whereas bar.com users get a note in their messages that
points to bar.com.

Is there any way to do this other than installing two
separate copies of mailman? I.e., does mailman do virtual
hosts? (Obviously my MTA handles its own virtual hosts, but
I'm talking about virtual hosts for mailman-specific
functions.)

-- 
Stephen R. Laniel
steve at laniels.org
+(617) 308-5571
http://laniels.org/
PGP key: http://laniels.org/slaniel.key
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From dennis.putnam at aimaudit.com  Tue Dec 13 14:22:15 2005
From: dennis.putnam at aimaudit.com (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 08:22:15 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need some migration help on OS X
Message-ID: <9FE500AA-AEBC-4B19-B3D5-3716D891DB82@aimaudit.com>

I asked this a couple of weeks ago and did not get a response so I  
apologize for reposting but I need to get this fixed.

I migrated my mailing lists to a new server following the  
instructions on the mailman web site. The problem I am having is that  
all messages posted to lists on the new server are forwarded to the  
old server for some reason (which, of course, prevents distribution  
since the old server is gone). I cannot find why but it has to be  
some kind of config issue. Could someone please point me in the right  
direction on this? TIA.

Dennis Putnam
Sr. IT Systems Administrator
AIM Systems, Inc.
11675 Rainwater Dr., Suite 200
Alpharetta, GA  30004
Phone: 678-240-4112
Main Phone: 678-297-0700
FAX: 678-297-2666 or 770-576-1000
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments is  
strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any  
use, dissemination, distribution, or duplication of any part of this  
e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you are not the intended  
recipient, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete all  
copies, including the attachments.




From dennis.putnam at aimaudit.com  Fri Dec  9 18:56:12 2005
From: dennis.putnam at aimaudit.com (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 12:56:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman server migration problem
Message-ID: <D95DC83A-E226-4143-B168-F940F47665E2@aimaudit.com>

I have migrated my mailman database according to directions indicated  
on the Mailman web site from one OS X server to another. Although the  
lists show up on the new server nothing works. In looking at the  
logs, it appears that each time a member posts a message, it gets  
processed by the new server and sent to mailman-bounces on the old  
server. That server bounces the mail and some ping-pong occurs for a  
while. Obviously there is some address somewhere about the list owner  
that the instructions did not mention needs to be changed. Can some  
one tell me were I can check this configuration problem? I cannot  
find any config files for mailman in any of the usual places. TIA.

Dennis Putnam
Sr. IT Systems Administrator
AIM Systems, Inc.
11675 Rainwater Dr., Suite 200
Alpharetta, GA  30004
Phone: 678-240-4112
Main Phone: 678-297-0700
FAX: 678-297-2666 or 770-576-1000
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments is  
strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any  
use, dissemination, distribution, or duplication of any part of this  
e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you are not the intended  
recipient, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete all  
copies, including the attachments.




From msapiro at value.net  Wed Dec 14 00:34:52 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 15:34:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need some migration help on OS X
In-Reply-To: <9FE500AA-AEBC-4B19-B3D5-3716D891DB82@aimaudit.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512131534520312460879ac@msapiro>

Dennis Putnam wrote:

>I asked this a couple of weeks ago and did not get a response so I  
>apologize for reposting but I need to get this fixed.


I don't know about any post from a couple of weeks ago - couldn't find
one in the archives - but a similar post from last Friday just hit the
list after being queued at xserveoda.aimaudit.com for 4 days.


>I migrated my mailing lists to a new server following the  
>instructions on the mailman web site. The problem I am having is that  
>all messages posted to lists on the new server are forwarded to the  
>old server for some reason (which, of course, prevents distribution  
>since the old server is gone). I cannot find why but it has to be  
>some kind of config issue. Could someone please point me in the right  
>direction on this? TIA.


Presumably the new server has new domain names. Did you run fix_url on
your old lists as discussed in the FAQ
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp>?

Your other post mentions the list owner. Did the domain of this address
change? If so, you can change owner (and moderator if any) addresses
via the list admin web interface.

If you're running the Apple installed Mailman on OSX server, there is
also some Apple GUI for administering things, but few people on this
list know anything about it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ostrowb at tblc.org  Wed Dec 14 17:10:22 2005
From: ostrowb at tblc.org (Ben Ostrowsky)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 11:10:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating from 2.1.4 on one machine to 2.1.5 on
	another?
Message-ID: <002101c600c8$e2b72370$08888040@Bernie>

We're trying to move Mailman from one machine to another, and I'm not quite
sure how to do this.

I've configured Mailman 2.1.5 on our new Red Hat Enterprise Linux 4 server.
I would like to copy all of the mailing lists (configurations, membership
information, and archives) from the 2.1.4 installation on our old SuSE Linux
8.1 server.

Should I do this?  If so, what's the easiest sane way to do it?

Thanks!
Ben Ostrowsky




From msapiro at value.net  Wed Dec 14 18:29:48 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:29:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating from 2.1.4 on one machine to 2.1.5
	onanother?
In-Reply-To: <002101c600c8$e2b72370$08888040@Bernie>
Message-ID: <PC17402005121409294804536a8b2bf5@msapiro>

Ben Ostrowsky wrote:

>We're trying to move Mailman from one machine to another, and I'm not quite
>sure how to do this.
>
>I've configured Mailman 2.1.5 on our new Red Hat Enterprise Linux 4 server.
>I would like to copy all of the mailing lists (configurations, membership
>information, and archives) from the 2.1.4 installation on our old SuSE Linux
>8.1 server.
>
>Should I do this?  If so, what's the easiest sane way to do it?


Yes you should do it. If the domain names of the new server are the
same as the old, just copy the archives/private/, archives/public/ and
lists/ directories from the old server to the new and you're done.

If the domains are different, you'll need to run fix_url after copying
the directories. Run bin/fix_url.py for instructions. Also, there will
be a few links in the archives that point to the old domain. If this
is a problem, you can rebuild the archives from the
listname.mbox/listname.mbox files with bin/arch. run "bin/arch --help"
for info.

Since Mailman is apparently already running on the new server, you may
not want to copy the site list info (lists/mailman/ or whatever the
site list name is) from the old server.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From smielke at famsi.org  Wed Dec 14 20:43:58 2005
From: smielke at famsi.org (smielke at famsi.org)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 14:43:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Administrator receiving all mail as well as
	moderators
Message-ID: <006501c600e6$ba29fdb0$2901a8c0@famsi12>

Is there a way to change the setup in Mailman so the list owner does not receive all the approval requests that the moderators receive?

Thank you,
Sandy

From dpifer at odu.edu  Wed Dec 14 20:26:48 2005
From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 14:26:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught bounce notifications
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005120110534208751bda52f5@msapiro>
References: <PC17402005120110534208751bda52f5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1134588408.13647.9.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>

Hello,

       This one is a little bit old but I thought I would add to
this thread anyhow. It appears that the problem with the "uncaught
bounce notifications" was with the mail client the user had been using.
The mail client that had this issue is named "Compoze" and is available
through our Web portal. When the user hit the "reply" button in Compoze,
the To: field was  listname-bounces at list.odu.edu address. 

       As a test case, I sent some mail to a test list serve I created
"odutest at list.odu.edu" that had 2 email addresses (my own and a
colleague) subscribed to it. I gathered results from 3 mailers: Lotus
Notes (which is the school's supported mail client), Compoze and
Evolution (my mail client) and what was returned when I clicked on the
"Reply" button and on the "Reply to all" button for each mail clients
after receiving mail. It is surprising how 3 mail clients came up with
different results by clicking on these buttons.

Lotus Notes

    => Reply
       To: dpifer at odu.edu

    => Reply to all
       To: dpifer at odu.edu
       Cc: odutest at list.odu.edu, odutest-bounces at list.odu.edu
                                                                                                                                     Compoze

    => Reply
       To: odutest-bounces at list.odu.edu

    => Reply to all
       To: odutest-bounces at list.odu.edu, odutest at list.odu.edu
                                                                                                                                                             Evolution                                                                                                                                                             
    => Reply
       To: dpifer at odu.edu

    => Reply to all
       To: odutest at list.odu.edu

I am going to work with our Web portal people to see why compoze is
working the way it is and see if this is resolvable.

-Darren

Old Dominion University
Norfolk, VA

On Thu, 2005-12-01 at 13:53, Mark Sapiro wrote: 
> Darren G Pifer wrote:
> >                    
> >Uncaught bounce notification 
> >
> >The attached message was received as a bounce, but either the bounce
> >format was not recognized, or no member addresses could be extracted
> >from it. This mailing list has been configured to send all
> >unrecognized bounce messages to the list administrator(s).
> >
> >> ===== Original Message =====
> >> Date: Nov 25, 2005 12:30 PM
> >> From: LIST at odu.edu
> >> To: LIST at list.odu.edu
> >> Cc:
> >> Subject: Re: [LIST] We need new officers for the spring semester!
> >>
> Although some of the header info is garbled, possibly by a copy and
> paste operation, this is clearly a copy of an "Uncaught bounce
> notification". The original "bounce" appears to be a post erroneously
> sent to LIST-bounces at ... instead of LIST at ...
> 
> My question now, is are we sure there isn't some miscommunication
> between you, the list owner and the original user? Do we even really
> know that the original user (or anyone other than the list owner)
> actually received this specific message?



From gaoandy at gmail.com  Wed Dec 14 21:09:15 2005
From: gaoandy at gmail.com (Andy Gao)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 15:09:15 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  How to disable autoresponder's post
Message-ID: <eca6b080512141209w7c6eaed5pdcfa27ba8b001c2@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, all:

One of our list member has the autoresponder "I will be out of the office
..." and the message is posted on the list :-(.

I checked the mailman faq:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.006.htp

and right now we disable him to receive the message from our list.

I just wonder if there's other solution to this kind of problem?

thanks.

andy


From wheakory at isu.edu  Wed Dec 14 21:15:06 2005
From: wheakory at isu.edu (Kory Wheatley)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:15:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Installation Owner
Message-ID: <43A07D4A.9010201@isu.edu>

Hi All,

I have a very critical question.  I installed "Mailman 2.1.6" under
a user account called "wheakory"  and this account needs to be removed
off of our system fast.  I would like to change ownership of the Mailman
installer owner to "mailacct" which is another account on our system. 
My group is the default group "mailman", server is "www".  If I just do
a find command :
(find /home/mailman -user wheakory -exec chown wheakory {} \;)
(find /home/mailman -group wheakory -exec chgrp wheakory {} \;)

Will this work, or is this account "wheakory" binded to the binary files
where this won't work?  If this doesn't work what are my options besides
a complete reinstall, because I have over 200 mailing lists in production.

Here's the configuration I used to install Mailman 2.16 logged in as the
"wheakory" user account.
./configure  --prefix=/home/mailman --with-python=/usr/bin/python
--with-mail-
gid=mailman --with-cgi-gid=www


Here's my Mailman directory structure below.  (I'm using postfix with
Red Hat Enterprise 4, Mailman 2.1.6)
drwxrwsr-x    2 wheakory mailman    4096 Jul  8 22:30 icons
drwxrwsr-x  282 wheakory mailman   12288 Dec 12 17:09 lists
drwxrwsr-x    2 wheakory helpmail   4096 Dec 13 19:51 locks
drwxrwsr-x    2 wheakory mailman    4096 Dec 11 23:59 logs
drwxrwsr-x    2 wheakory mailman    4096 Jul  8 22:30 mail
drwxrwsr-x   11 wheakory mailman    4096 Oct 27 10:17 Mailman
drwxrwsr-x   31 wheakory mailman    4096 Jul  8 22:31 messages
drwxrwsr-x    2 wheakory mailman    4096 Mar 15  2004 spam
drwxrwsr-x   34 wheakory mailman    4096 Jul  8 22:30 templates
drwxrwsr-x    4 wheakory mailman    4096 Jul  8 22:31 tests


From cpz at tuunq.com  Wed Dec 14 22:30:21 2005
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:30:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Installation Owner
In-Reply-To: <43A07D4A.9010201@isu.edu> from Kory Wheatley at "Dec 14,
	2005 01:15:06 pm"
Message-ID: <20051214213021.648807AE@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Kory Wheatley wrote:

> I have a very critical question.  I installed "Mailman 2.1.6" under
> a user account called "wheakory"  and this account needs to be removed
> off of our system fast.  I would like to change ownership of the Mailman
> installer owner to "mailacct" which is another account on our system. 
> My group is the default group "mailman", server is "www".  If I just do
> a find command :
> (find /home/mailman -user wheakory -exec chown wheakory {} \;)
> (find /home/mailman -group wheakory -exec chgrp wheakory {} \;)

2dn wheakory -> mailman on both of those.
(or just chown -R mailman:mailman /home/mailman)

> Here's the configuration I used to install Mailman 2.16 logged in as the
> "wheakory" user account.
> ./configure  --prefix=/home/mailman --with-python=/usr/bin/python
> --with-mail-gid=mailman --with-cgi-gid=www

That should get the files, but the wrapper code will still want to 
use wheakory. You will have to rebuild that, but a "reinstall" 
isn't necessary. I'm sure there's something in the FAQ abou this.

BTW, I'd recommend using user/group "mailman" as it's the canonical
uid/gid.

z!


From haack at nclack.k12.or.us  Wed Dec 14 23:53:03 2005
From: haack at nclack.k12.or.us (Robert Haack)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 14:53:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Withlist Errors
Message-ID: <43A0A24F.5010109@nclack.k12.or.us>

I'm working on a procedure to change the number of recipients in lists. 
Following a sample Mark Sapiro (Thank You Mark) I created the below
procedure.  When I run it though I a bunch of errors.  Being that I know
nothing about Python I was hoping that one of you might be able to point
out what is wrong here.  If I need to post this to the python list
instead just let me know.

def cng_no_recipents(mlist):
   mlist.Lock()
   mlist.max_num_recipients = 100
   mlist.Save()
   mlist.Unlock()


[root at nclack bin]# ./withlist -l -r cngnorecipe.cng_no_recipents test3
Importing cngnorecipe...
Running cngnorecipe.cng_no_recipents()...
Loading list test3 (locked)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./withlist", line 275, in ?
    main()
  File "./withlist", line 256, in main
    r = do_list(listname, args, func)
  File "./withlist", line 189, in do_list
    return func(m, *args)
  File "/var/mailman/bin/cngnorecipe.py", line 2, in cng_no_recipents
    mlist.Lock()
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 159, in Lock
    self.__lock.lock(timeout)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 291, in lock
    raise AlreadyLockedError
Mailman.LockFile.AlreadyLockedError
Unlocking (but not saving) list: test3
Finalizing

TIA

-- 
Robert Haack
Programmer Analyst
North Clackamas School District #12
haack at nclack.k12.or.us



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec 15 00:41:01 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 15:41:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Administrator receiving all mail as well
	asmoderators
In-Reply-To: <006501c600e6$ba29fdb0$2901a8c0@famsi12>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512141541010718f6e2a08f@msapiro>

Sandy wrote:

>Is there a way to change the setup in Mailman so the list owner does not receive all the approval requests that the moderators receive?

No.

The basic theory is that since moderators are optional, owners should
get all notices. I can understand that it can be useful to exclude
owners from some notices if there are moderators, but Mailman does not
currently do that.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec 15 02:09:48 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 17:09:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Installation Owner
In-Reply-To: <20051214213021.648807AE@mail.tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512141709480968fb8be918@msapiro>

Carl Zwanzig wrote:

>In a flurry of recycled electrons, Kory Wheatley wrote:
>
>> Here's the configuration I used to install Mailman 2.16 logged in as the
>> "wheakory" user account.
>> ./configure  --prefix=/home/mailman --with-python=/usr/bin/python
>> --with-mail-gid=mailman --with-cgi-gid=www
>
>That should get the files, but the wrapper code will still want to 
>use wheakory. You will have to rebuild that, but a "reinstall" 
>isn't necessary. I'm sure there's something in the FAQ abou this.


Mailman was originally configured with "--with-mail-gid=mailman
--with-cgi-gid=www". These are the groups the wrappers are expecting
to be invoked by, and this won't change. The MTA will still invoke the
mail wrapper as group 'mailman' and the web server will still invoke
the cgi wrappers as group 'www'.

What may change is the effective group set via the SETGID bit and the
group ownership of the wrapper, but the wrapper doesn't check these
things, so no recompilation of the wrapper should be necessary. Just
make sure that the wrappers' group is the one that has permissions on
all the Mailman files.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec 15 02:24:35 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 17:24:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Withlist Errors
In-Reply-To: <43A0A24F.5010109@nclack.k12.or.us>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512141724350718fb8be811@msapiro>

Robert Haack wrote:

>I'm working on a procedure to change the number of recipients in lists. 
>Following a sample Mark Sapiro (Thank You Mark) I created the below
>procedure.  When I run it though I a bunch of errors.  Being that I know
>nothing about Python I was hoping that one of you might be able to point
>out what is wrong here.  If I need to post this to the python list
>instead just let me know.


The Python folks don't know about withlist or Mailman specific methods,
so this is the appropriate place.


>def cng_no_recipents(mlist):
>   mlist.Lock()
>   mlist.max_num_recipients = 100
>   mlist.Save()
>   mlist.Unlock()
>
>
>[root at nclack bin]# ./withlist -l -r cngnorecipe.cng_no_recipents test3
>Importing cngnorecipe...
>Running cngnorecipe.cng_no_recipents()...
>Loading list test3 (locked)
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "./withlist", line 275, in ?
>    main()
>  File "./withlist", line 256, in main
>    r = do_list(listname, args, func)
>  File "./withlist", line 189, in do_list
>    return func(m, *args)
>  File "/var/mailman/bin/cngnorecipe.py", line 2, in cng_no_recipents
>    mlist.Lock()
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 159, in Lock
>    self.__lock.lock(timeout)
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 291, in lock
>    raise AlreadyLockedError
>Mailman.LockFile.AlreadyLockedError
>Unlocking (but not saving) list: test3
>Finalizing


The problem is just what it says. The script is trying to lock the list
(mlist.Lock()), and the list is already locked (withlist -l option).
There are several ways around this, but the easiest is to just remove
-l from the withlist command.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec 15 05:47:01 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 20:47:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught bounce notifications
In-Reply-To: <1134588408.13647.9.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402005121420470106878ff48b10@msapiro>

Darren G Pifer wrote:
>
>       This one is a little bit old but I thought I would add to
>this thread anyhow. It appears that the problem with the "uncaught
>bounce notifications" was with the mail client the user had been using.
>The mail client that had this issue is named "Compoze" and is available
>through our Web portal. When the user hit the "reply" button in Compoze,
>the To: field was  listname-bounces at list.odu.edu address. 


Because Compoze is replying to the envelope sender or possibly the
Sender: address instead of the address(es) in Reply-To: or From:.
Compoze is not doing the right thing.


>       As a test case, I sent some mail to a test list serve I created
>"odutest at list.odu.edu" that had 2 email addresses (my own and a
>colleague) subscribed to it. I gathered results from 3 mailers: Lotus
>Notes (which is the school's supported mail client), Compoze and
>Evolution (my mail client) and what was returned when I clicked on the
>"Reply" button and on the "Reply to all" button for each mail clients
>after receiving mail. It is surprising how 3 mail clients came up with
>different results by clicking on these buttons.
>
>Lotus Notes
>
>    => Reply
>       To: dpifer at odu.edu
>
>    => Reply to all
>       To: dpifer at odu.edu
>       Cc: odutest at list.odu.edu, odutest-bounces at list.odu.edu


I don't think the Reply to all should include
odutest-bounces at list.odu.edu. This is unusual, but not strictly WRONG
because it is not covered by the standard.

                                                                       
                                                             Compoze
>
>    => Reply
>       To: odutest-bounces at list.odu.edu
>
>    => Reply to all
>       To: odutest-bounces at list.odu.edu, odutest at list.odu.edu


This is clearly wrong. Compoze is completely overriding the From: in
favor of Sender: or envelope sender.

                                                                       
                                                                      
           Evolution                                                  
                                                                      
                                   
>    => Reply
>       To: dpifer at odu.edu
>
>    => Reply to all
>       To: odutest at list.odu.edu


I suspect the only reason that dpifer at odu.edu is not included in the
Reply to all is that it is you <dpifer at odu.edu> doing the replying and
Evolution knows it. I suspect if your colleague posted and you did a
Reply to all, it would go to odutest at list.odu.edu and the colleague,
or better, To: the colleague with Cc: to the list. Assuming this is
correct, I would say that Evolution is the only user agent that is
doing the right thing.


>I am going to work with our Web portal people to see why compoze is
>working the way it is and see if this is resolvable.


>From RFC 2822, sec 3.6.2
   The originator fields also provide the information required when
   replying to a message.  When the "Reply-To:" field is present, it
   indicates the mailbox(es) to which the author of the message suggests
   that replies be sent.  In the absence of the "Reply-To:" field,
   replies SHOULD by default be sent to the mailbox(es) specified in the
   "From:" field unless otherwise specified by the person composing the
   reply.

And from RFC 2822 sec 3.6.3
   When a message is a reply to another message, the mailboxes of the
   authors of the original message (the mailboxes in the "From:" field)
   or mailboxes specified in the "Reply-To:" field (if it exists) MAY
   appear in the "To:" field of the reply since these would normally be
   the primary recipients of the reply.  If a reply is sent to a message
   that has destination fields, it is often desirable to send a copy of
   the reply to all of the recipients of the message, in addition to the
   author.  When such a reply is formed, addresses in the "To:" and
   "Cc:" fields of the original message MAY appear in the "Cc:" field of
   the reply, since these are normally secondary recipients of the
   reply.  If a "Bcc:" field is present in the original message,
   addresses in that field MAY appear in the "Bcc:" field of the reply,
   but SHOULD NOT appear in the "To:" or "Cc:" fields.

   Note: Some mail applications have automatic reply commands that
   include the destination addresses of the original message in the
   destination addresses of the reply.  How those reply commands behave
   is implementation dependent and is beyond the scope of this document.
   In particular, whether or not to include the original destination
   addresses when the original message had a "Reply-To:" field is not
   addressed here.


Two other notes from me:
Bcc fields will normally not appear in a message being replied to if
the message was received from someone else, as the Bcc will normally
have been removed.

Although the RFC declines to address the operation of automatic reply
commands, I note that this is in the area of which destination
addresses might be included in the reply. I don't thing it
contemplates substituting Sender: or envelope sender for From: or
Reply-To: addresses.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec 15 05:49:54 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 20:49:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to disable autoresponder's post
In-Reply-To: <eca6b080512141209w7c6eaed5pdcfa27ba8b001c2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512142049540781b4ad0dc3@msapiro>

Andy Gao wrote:
>
>One of our list member has the autoresponder "I will be out of the office
>..." and the message is posted on the list :-(.
>
>I checked the mailman faq:
>http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.006.htp
>
>and right now we disable him to receive the message from our list.
>
>I just wonder if there's other solution to this kind of problem?


I think the FAQ pretty much covers it. If you come up with anything
additional, please add it to the FAQ.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From haack at nclack.k12.or.us  Thu Dec 15 16:33:29 2005
From: haack at nclack.k12.or.us (Robert Haack)
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 07:33:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Withlist Errors
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200512141724350718fb8be811@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200512141724350718fb8be811@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43A18CC9.9010807@nclack.k12.or.us>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Robert Haack wrote:
>
>  
>
>>I'm working on a procedure to change the number of recipients in lists. 
>>Following a sample Mark Sapiro (Thank You Mark) I created the below
>>procedure.  When I run it though I a bunch of errors.  Being that I know
>>nothing about Python I was hoping that one of you might be able to point
>>out what is wrong here.  If I need to post this to the python list
>>instead just let me know.
>>    
>>
>
>
>The Python folks don't know about withlist or Mailman specific methods,
>so this is the appropriate place.
>
>
>  
>
>>def cng_no_recipents(mlist):
>>  mlist.Lock()
>>  mlist.max_num_recipients = 100
>>  mlist.Save()
>>  mlist.Unlock()
>>
>>
>>[root at nclack bin]# ./withlist -l -r cngnorecipe.cng_no_recipents test3
>>Importing cngnorecipe...
>>Running cngnorecipe.cng_no_recipents()...
>>Loading list test3 (locked)
>>Traceback (most recent call last):
>> File "./withlist", line 275, in ?
>>   main()
>> File "./withlist", line 256, in main
>>   r = do_list(listname, args, func)
>> File "./withlist", line 189, in do_list
>>   return func(m, *args)
>> File "/var/mailman/bin/cngnorecipe.py", line 2, in cng_no_recipents
>>   mlist.Lock()
>> File "/var/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 159, in Lock
>>   self.__lock.lock(timeout)
>> File "/var/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 291, in lock
>>   raise AlreadyLockedError
>>Mailman.LockFile.AlreadyLockedError
>>Unlocking (but not saving) list: test3
>>Finalizing
>>    
>>
>
>
>The problem is just what it says. The script is trying to lock the list
>(mlist.Lock()), and the list is already locked (withlist -l option).
>There are several ways around this, but the easiest is to just remove
>-l from the withlist command.
>  
>
Okay I got this part resolved but when I run the program it prints out
the initial value 150.  I then change the value to 100 and print it out
and it shows me 100.  If I then go look at the list or run the program
again I find that my initial value is still there.  I've tried this
while logged onto the web based page and when I'm not logged in and I
get the same results.  The program is exactly as it is above.

TIA

Robert Haack
Programmer Analyst
North Clackamas School District #12
haack at nclack.k12.or.us




From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec 15 16:50:46 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 07:50:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Withlist Errors
In-Reply-To: <43A18CC9.9010807@nclack.k12.or.us>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512150750460015e4c6275d@msapiro>

Robert Haack wrote:

>Okay I got this part resolved but when I run the program it prints out
>the initial value 150.  I then change the value to 100 and print it out
>and it shows me 100.  If I then go look at the list or run the program
>again I find that my initial value is still there.  I've tried this
>while logged onto the web based page and when I'm not logged in and I
>get the same results.  The program is exactly as it is above.


I'm confused.

The cng_no_recipents() function in the withlist script doesn't print
any max_num_recipients values. Where are you seeing these 'prints'?

Do you perhaps have a cached page in your browser that's showing and or
setting the 'old' value?

BTW, for this specific example you might just as easily use
bin/config_list with an input file containing

max_num_recipients = 100

even if you ultimately plan to do it for all lists. It comes down to
whether it's easier to write a python script to do the change via
withlist vs. a shell or other script to run config_list for all lists.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ostrowb at tblc.org  Thu Dec 15 18:19:36 2005
From: ostrowb at tblc.org (Ben Ostrowsky)
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 12:19:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman is on the web server,
	mail is going to the mail server. How do I connect them?
Message-ID: <006c01c6019b$b97ca470$08888040@Bernie>

OK, thanks to the generous help of several of y'all, I've finally got
Mailman set up on the new web server.  Thank you!  I have a follow-up
question.

Mail is delivered to mail.tblc.org.  Mailman is running on lists.tblc.org.
How can I get Mailman to get the mail sent to listname at lists.tblc.org?

Mail.tblc.org is currently running Postfix, but will eventually become an
Exchange server.  (I know, I know.)

Is fetchmail a viable solution?  If you've got a similar setup (Mailman not
running on the MX), how do you handle it?

Thanks!
Ben Ostrowsky




From ostrowb at tblc.org  Thu Dec 15 20:03:40 2005
From: ostrowb at tblc.org (Ben Ostrowsky)
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:03:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] All my lists are unadvertised, even after fix_url
In-Reply-To: <43A09FF2.8040901@cruciverb.com>
Message-ID: <007b01c601aa$43251690$08888040@Bernie>

> >Hmm, looks like I'm almost done... Only thing is, now none of my lists 
> >are marked as publicly advertised.  I guess I'll just have to change 
> >that, list by list.
> That's taken care of by running the fix_url.py script I mentioned.

Hmm.  I tried running bin/withlist -l -r fix_url suntalk, and it's still not
showing up

Any ideas what I'm doing wrong?  I know I'm close to being finished with
this setup, I can feel it!  

Ben




From ostrowb at tblc.org  Thu Dec 15 20:16:44 2005
From: ostrowb at tblc.org (Ben Ostrowsky)
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:16:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] All my lists are unadvertised,
	even after fix_url
In-Reply-To: <007b01c601aa$43251690$08888040@Bernie>
Message-ID: <008401c601ac$168c3d50$08888040@Bernie>

Weirder yet, http://www.tblc.org/mailman/listinfo shows all my lists, but
http://lists.tblc.org/mailman/listinfo doesn't -- even though www and lists
have the same IP address.

I think this is related to FAQ 4.17, but I don't see a web_page_url setting
on the General Options page of the list's administrative interface.

Ben




From ostrowb at tblc.org  Thu Dec 15 20:22:12 2005
From: ostrowb at tblc.org (Ben Ostrowsky)
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:22:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] All my lists are unadvertised,
	even after fix_url
In-Reply-To: <007b01c601aa$43251690$08888040@Bernie>
Message-ID: <008501c601ac$d9e4a1c0$08888040@Bernie>

OK, got it figured out -- somehow I'd neglected to look at DEFAULT_URL_HOST!
No wonder fix_url wasn't working!

Ben




From Darren.Young at ChicagoGSB.edu  Thu Dec 15 20:28:48 2005
From: Darren.Young at ChicagoGSB.edu (Young, Darren)
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 13:28:48 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] All my lists are unadvertised,
	even after fix_url
Message-ID: <490F3E9EEF01B04598860AAB71777B4E2BF6C2@GSBEX.gsb.uchicago.edu>

I use this as a withlist script to set those.

def set_url(m):
    m.web_page_url = "http://lists.chicagogsb.edu/mailman"
    m.Save()
    m.Unlock()
 
> 
> Weirder yet, http://www.tblc.org/mailman/listinfo shows all 
> my lists, but
> http://lists.tblc.org/mailman/listinfo doesn't -- even though 
> www and lists
> have the same IP address.
> 
> I think this is related to FAQ 4.17, but I don't see a 
> web_page_url setting
> on the General Options page of the list's administrative interface.
> 
> Ben
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/darren.yo
> ung%40chicagogsb.edu
> 
> Security Policy: 
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq
> 01.027.htp
> 


From Darren.Young at ChicagoGSB.edu  Thu Dec 15 18:29:57 2005
From: Darren.Young at ChicagoGSB.edu (Young, Darren)
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 11:29:57 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman is on the web server,
	mail is going to the mail server. How do I connect them?
Message-ID: <490F3E9EEF01B04598860AAB71777B4E2BF6BE@GSBEX.gsb.uchicago.edu>

> Mail is delivered to mail.tblc.org.  Mailman is running on 
> lists.tblc.org.
> How can I get Mailman to get the mail sent to listname at lists.tblc.org?

I mx our mailman server to lists.chicagogsb.edu and it works fine. Our
previous domain, gsb.uchicago.edu has an mx that points to an iplanet
mail server. To support <list>@gsb.uchicago.edu that points to
<list>@lists.chicagogsb.edu, I add a mail distribution alias on the
gsb.uchicago.edu system for each mailman list address (owner, request,
subscribe, etc). The mail aliases on iplanet are basically 'forwards'
that receive inbound on a name then forward on to the other address.
I've modified all of our list creation scripts to add the necessary
entries in our LDAP servers for this to happen. Adds another hop and
dependency to the list processing, but it works and provides backwards
name space support.

> 
> Mail.tblc.org is currently running Postfix, but will 
> eventually become an
> Exchange server.  (I know, I know.)

Asking for trouble eh?

> 
> Is fetchmail a viable solution?  If you've got a similar 
> setup (Mailman not
> running on the MX), how do you handle it?

Why not mx the mailman instance?


From elvisfern at gmail.com  Thu Dec 15 21:24:11 2005
From: elvisfern at gmail.com (Elvis Fernandes)
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 12:24:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pipermail question
Message-ID: <5b1c0dc50512151224ybf4d51ap842c6c6d5847fc92@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

Thanks to all the responses from this mail list.
I was able to successfully setup mailman, and have migrated one list
already.

There is one feature that I would like to have on the Pipermail.
In the default way that I have setup mailman-pipermail, the emails can be
browsed by Thread - Subject -  Author - Date.
If I select anyone of the above, I see the emails in the Subject - Author
format.
Is there a way to see it in the Subject - Author - Datestamp format ?

Basically,all the index on thread/subject/author/date doesn't have the date
stamp on each of the individual messages. Can the date-stamp be shown
against each of the messages on mailman - pipermail.

Thanks


From Julia_Frizzell at brown.edu  Thu Dec 15 22:29:56 2005
From: Julia_Frizzell at brown.edu (Julia Frizzell)
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 16:29:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Host sending problem
Message-ID: <p06230901bfc77def7e4c@[128.148.108.69]>

Greetings everyone!

New to the list, and having some mail delivery problems.

I have setup up an OS X 10.4 Server box to run Mailman, and Mailman 
only.  No regular mail is going through this box.

Everything was working fine. And then, Virtual Hosts came in.

The main reason for this Mailman installation is to support a 
virtually hosted website. The people will be discussing the site and 
other things on the lists.

The DNS is being handled off-site, by the organization who asked us 
for this setup. We got them to make MX records and point them to the 
right addresses.

I believe I've configured Mailman right, but of course, it's not 
working, so something isn't right.

The lists work fine for sending. (I have two virtual hosts). I can 
create lists using the web interface, and subscribe people to them. I 
can get the password and list creation messages sent out (all mail is 
relayed out using my employer's SMTP server, per their policies).

But, in trying to send mail, I am stymied. The first time, mail was 
rejected immediately, didn't pass go, didn't collect $200. I added 
into Server Admin the two virtually hosted domains. That seems to 
have made a change, as now my mail goes off into the great beyond, 
instead of immediately being rejected.

In looking at the SMTP error log, this is what I'm seeing for the error:

Dec 15 14:54:53 list postfix/lmtp[27282]: 88BFD47E63: 
to=<***@***.***.***>, relay=none, delay=1641, status=deferred 
(connect to /var/imap/socket/lmtp[/var/imap/socket/lmtp]: No such 
file or directory)

And sure enough, if I go into that directory, there is no lmtp file 
or directory in that spot.

But, since Mailman *is* working for the non-virtual host, I think 
I've just misconfigured something somewhere, or left out a step.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
-- 
Julia Frizzell
Systems Administrator/Help Desk Manager
The Education Alliance
222 Richmond Street, Suite 300
Providence, Rhode Island  02903-4226
julia_frizzell at brown.edu
401.274.9548 x311 or 800.521.9550 x311
401.421.7650 (fax)
http://www.alliance.brown.edu


From lists at localguru.de  Thu Dec 15 23:26:16 2005
From: lists at localguru.de (Marcus Sobchak)
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 23:26:16 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 'Go to list archives' Link & virtual host
Message-ID: <1134685576.25102.27.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Hi,

I've created a new list using "newlist
listname-user at mailman.mydomain.org"
  The admin webinterfaces point to http://mailman.mydomain.org using an
Apache virtual host. Inside the admin webinterface all link point
correctly to http://mailman.mydomain.org, but not the 'Go to list
archives' Link! It points to the 
 
  DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'mydomain.org'

configuration set in /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py. Setting it to
'mailman.mydomain.org' is not a solution, because I'd like to use the
admin interface from different apache virtual hosts.

I've played a little bit with mailman's virtual hosts features, but this
didn't help or I used them in a wrong way.

Thanks,
Marcus




From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Dec 16 01:03:21 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 18:03:21 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman is on the web server,
 mail is going to the mail server. How do I connect them?
In-Reply-To: <006c01c6019b$b97ca470$08888040@Bernie>
References: <006c01c6019b$b97ca470$08888040@Bernie>
Message-ID: <p06200712bfc7b47113b5@[192.168.1.100]>

At 12:19 PM -0500 2005-12-15, Ben Ostrowsky wrote:

>  Mail.tblc.org is currently running Postfix, but will eventually become an
>  Exchange server.  (I know, I know.)
>
>  Is fetchmail a viable solution?  If you've got a similar setup (Mailman not
>  running on the MX), how do you handle it?

	Fetchmail probably won't work with Exchange, no.  IMO, you're 
better off setting up postfix or some other well-supported MTA on the 
Mailman server, and by-passing the central mail server whenever 
possible.  This will become much more important once the central mail 
server switches to Exchange.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Dec 16 01:08:37 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 18:08:37 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pipermail question
In-Reply-To: <5b1c0dc50512151224ybf4d51ap842c6c6d5847fc92@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5b1c0dc50512151224ybf4d51ap842c6c6d5847fc92@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06200713bfc7b5e26a07@[192.168.1.100]>

At 12:24 PM -0800 2005-12-15, Elvis Fernandes wrote:

>  There is one feature that I would like to have on the Pipermail.
>  In the default way that I have setup mailman-pipermail, the emails can be
>  browsed by Thread - Subject -  Author - Date.
>  If I select anyone of the above, I see the emails in the Subject - Author
>  format.
>  Is there a way to see it in the Subject - Author - Datestamp format ?

	In the current version?  Not that I'm aware of.

>  Basically,all the index on thread/subject/author/date doesn't have the date
>  stamp on each of the individual messages. Can the date-stamp be shown
>  against each of the messages on mailman - pipermail.

	This sounds like a good idea.  Please file a Feature Request at 
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=350103>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From fen at openprivacy.org  Fri Dec 16 01:11:37 2005
From: fen at openprivacy.org (Fen Labalme)
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 16:11:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] debian upgrade problems (2.1.4 -> 2.1.5)
Message-ID: <43A20639.6090502@openprivacy.org>

I've been trying to upgrade mailman 2.1.4 to 2.1.5-8 (debian testing) for some
time.   I've tried many things, and last night I got the closest, finally
getting past errors like:

Updating mailing list: openxri
Updating the held requests database.
- updating old private mbox file
    Your installation seems up-to-date, great!
- updating old public mbox file
    Your installation seems up-to-date, great!
Fixing language templates: openxri
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/update", line 760, in ?
    errors = main()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/update", line 650, in main
    errors = errors + dolist(listname)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/update", line 342, in dolist
    move_language_templates(mlist)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/update", line 128, in move_language_templates
    fp = open(os.path.join(mm_cfg.TEMPLATE_DIR, gtemplate))
IOError: [Errno 21] Is a directory
dpkg: error processing mailman (--configure):
 subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1
Errors were encountered while processing:
 mailman
E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)

this helped but did not solve the problem:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2004-November/017463.html

where I'm stuck now is it hangs on: "Updating Mailman 2.1.4 pending.pck
database" (see full trace below).  I read in one post that it might just be
going slow, but no - it's not doing anything at all.  It could be related to
the warnings about not being able to acquire locks, but I don;t know how to
clear those.  Any help is vetry much appreciated - I want to be using 2.1.5!

Thanks,
=Fen

====== listing ======

# apt-get install mailman
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
mailman is already the newest version.
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
1 not fully installed or removed.
Need to get 0B of archives.
After unpacking 0B of additional disk space will be used.
Setting up mailman (2.1.5-8) ...
Looking for enabled languages (this may take some time) ... done.
Installing site language en ............................................ done.
Upgrading from version 0x20104f0 to 0x20105f0
getting rid of old source files
Updating mailing list: barnraising
WARNING: could not acquire lock for list: barnraising

Updating mailing list: general
WARNING: could not acquire lock for list: general

......... twenty more lists, with the same warning one each

Updating mailing list: www-cvs
WARNING: could not acquire lock for list: www-cvs

Updating Usenet watermarks
- nothing to update here
Updating Mailman 2.1.4 pending.pck database

......... hangs here ... until ^C

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/update", line 825, in ?
    errors = main()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/update", line 749, in main
    update_pending()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/update", line 635, in update_pending
    mlist = MailList.MailList(listname)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 126, in __init__
    self.Lock()
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 159, in Lock
    self.__lock.lock(timeout)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 312, in lock
    self.__sleep()
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 496, in __sleep
    time.sleep(interval)
KeyboardInterrupt
dpkg: error processing mailman (--configure):
 subprocess post-installation script killed by signal (Interrupt)
Errors were encountered while processing:
 mailman
E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)

===== End Listing =====


From t.grey at auckland.ac.nz  Fri Dec 16 02:40:49 2005
From: t.grey at auckland.ac.nz (Terry Grey)
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 14:40:49 +1300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pending requests not seen
Message-ID: <1134697249.10531.41.camel@yamaha.itss.auckland.ac.nz>

Greetings,

We have recently upgraded to ver 2.1.6 and are currently experiencing a
problem with pending moderator requests. The emails are sent to the list
admins correctly but when accessing the admindb web page there is the
message "Click on the message number to view the individual message, or
you can view all messages from yyy at auckland.ac.nz". There are no
messages listed and clicking on the link takes you to the "no more
pending requests" page.

The held messages are still in the mailman/data directory.

Regards,
Terry

-- 
Terence Grey,  IT Systems & Services,  University of Auckland, New Zealand.  
========================================================================
  
      --- This message was written using recycled electrons ---




From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec 16 03:33:15 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 18:33:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Host sending problem
In-Reply-To: <p06230901bfc77def7e4c@[128.148.108.69]>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512151833150375fbaf45e6@msapiro>

Julia Frizzell wrote:
>
>In looking at the SMTP error log, this is what I'm seeing for the error:
>
>Dec 15 14:54:53 list postfix/lmtp[27282]: 88BFD47E63: 
>to=<***@***.***.***>, relay=none, delay=1641, status=deferred 
>(connect to /var/imap/socket/lmtp[/var/imap/socket/lmtp]: No such 
>file or directory)
>
>And sure enough, if I go into that directory, there is no lmtp file 
>or directory in that spot.
>
>But, since Mailman *is* working for the non-virtual host, I think 
>I've just misconfigured something somewhere, or left out a step.

I'm not a sendmail person so I can't help directly with the required
incantations, but the issue is that sendmail is trying to deliver
mailman mail for the virtual host via lmtp instead of via the mailman
aliases.

You need to tell sendmail to look first at the mailman aliases that
pipe mail to the mailman mail wrapper before trying normal delivery
for this host.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From sfeng at stanford.edu  Fri Dec 16 03:18:26 2005
From: sfeng at stanford.edu (Susan Feng)
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 18:18:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Exchange and attachment
Message-ID: <1134699505.15465.253.camel@hoss.stanford.edu>


I saw this thread from a 2003 email, but there was no follow-up to it.

We are having similar problem with mailman 2.1.6 version. Exchange users
receive their email "body as attachment". Other email clients are fine. 

The list has content filter turned off. 

Anyone knows how to configure the list correctly so the message will
actually show up for exchange users not as an attachment?

Thanks!

Susan


|I'm having a terrible time with the 2.1.2 upgrade.

|Ever since the upgrade, anyone using Microsoft Exchange Server receives 
|messages as an attachment.  So, using the new Content Filtering feature, I 
|set filtering to Yes and instructed Mailman to convert text/html parts to 
|plain text.  This seemed to work, but then no one could send attachments.

|So, within the area marked "Remove message attachments that don't have a 
|matching content type."  I added:

|multipart/mixed
|multipart/alternative
|text/plain
|
|Didn't help.  So, I added:

|image

|Didn't help.  Still can't add images.

|Finally, I added:

|image/jpeg
|image/jpg
|image/gif
|
|. . . but we still can't add images.  I've attached a screen shot of my 
|resulting Content Filtering page.

|This is a list for alumni of a college singing group.  Most messages don't 
|contain images, but occasionally people pass around old photos.

|Can anyone help?

|Thanks.

|Tim








From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec 16 03:43:54 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 18:43:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pipermail question
In-Reply-To: <5b1c0dc50512151224ybf4d51ap842c6c6d5847fc92@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512151843540234fbaf4580@msapiro>

Elvis Fernandes wrote:
>
>There is one feature that I would like to have on the Pipermail.
>In the default way that I have setup mailman-pipermail, the emails can be
>browsed by Thread - Subject -  Author - Date.
>If I select anyone of the above, I see the emails in the Subject - Author
>format.
>Is there a way to see it in the Subject - Author - Datestamp format ?


There's a patch for this at
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1290317&group_id=103&atid=300103>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec 16 03:52:12 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 18:52:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Exchange and attachment
In-Reply-To: <1134699505.15465.253.camel@hoss.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512151852120906fbaf47f6@msapiro>

Susan Feng wrote:
>
>We are having similar problem with mailman 2.1.6 version. Exchange users
>receive their email "body as attachment". Other email clients are fine. 

Do you have a msg_header and/or msg_footer defined for the list?

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.039.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From elvisfern at gmail.com  Fri Dec 16 04:12:42 2005
From: elvisfern at gmail.com (Elvis Fernandes)
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 19:12:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pipermail question
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200512151843540234fbaf4580@msapiro>
References: <5b1c0dc50512151224ybf4d51ap842c6c6d5847fc92@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200512151843540234fbaf4580@msapiro>
Message-ID: <5b1c0dc50512151912l2da6a25qd02dc19778876a9d@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks!
I found that patch, but I am stuggling to install it.
This patch is in a patch format (different from a regular tarball install).
Anyways, I have posted a request in sourceforge too.

Elvis

On 12/15/05, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Elvis Fernandes wrote:
> >
> >There is one feature that I would like to have on the Pipermail.
> >In the default way that I have setup mailman-pipermail, the emails can be
> >browsed by Thread - Subject -  Author - Date.
> >If I select anyone of the above, I see the emails in the Subject - Author
> >format.
> >Is there a way to see it in the Subject - Author - Datestamp format ?
>
>
> There's a patch for this at
> <
> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1290317&group_id=103&atid=300103
> >
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec 16 04:41:16 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 19:41:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] debian upgrade problems (2.1.4 -> 2.1.5)
In-Reply-To: <43A20639.6090502@openprivacy.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512151941160625b61e30a1@msapiro>

Fen Labalme wrote:
>
>where I'm stuck now is it hangs on: "Updating Mailman 2.1.4 pending.pck
>database" (see full trace below).  I read in one post that it might just be
>going slow, but no - it's not doing anything at all.  It could be related to
>the warnings about not being able to acquire locks, but I don;t know how to
>clear those.  Any help is vetry much appreciated - I want to be using 2.1.5!

It almost certainly is lists left locked by previous failures. This
would appear to be a Debian package issue. In any case, assuming
Mailman is not running ('bin/mailmanctl stop' to stop it if it is),
remove everything from Mailman's locks/ directory. That will clear the
locks and maybe the rest of the update can proceed.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jp at warpix.org  Fri Dec 16 12:21:38 2005
From: jp at warpix.org (John Poltorak)
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 11:21:38 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How long does an invite last?
Message-ID: <20051216112138.A47@warpix.org>



When an invitation is sent out from a mailing list for someone to join, 
how long is it before it expires?


-- 
John





From maillings at jg-service.de  Fri Dec 16 12:27:04 2005
From: maillings at jg-service.de (Maik Weidemann)
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 12:27:04 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Host sending problem
In-Reply-To: <p06230901bfc77def7e4c@[128.148.108.69]>
References: <p06230901bfc77def7e4c@[128.148.108.69]>
Message-ID: <43A2A488.6090707@jg-service.de>

Hello Julia,

Julia Frizzell schrieb:

>In looking at the SMTP error log, this is what I'm seeing for the error:
>
>Dec 15 14:54:53 list postfix/lmtp[27282]: 88BFD47E63: 
>to=<***@***.***.***>, relay=none, delay=1641, status=deferred 
>(connect to /var/imap/socket/lmtp[/var/imap/socket/lmtp]: No such 
>file or directory)
>
This error message is not a mailman error, it is a postfix error.
Postfix can not connect to the lmtp-service for transportion. Was the
lmtp-service started?

Regards
Maik



From lists at localguru.de  Fri Dec 16 14:48:14 2005
From: lists at localguru.de (Marcus Sobchak)
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 14:48:14 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 'Go to list archives' Link & virtual host
In-Reply-To: <1134685576.25102.27.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1134685576.25102.27.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <1134740894.8276.15.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Hi,

Am Donnerstag, den 15.12.2005, 23:26 +0100 schrieb Marcus Sobchak:
> I've created a new list using "newlist
> listname-user at mailman.mydomain.org"
>   The admin webinterfaces point to http://mailman.mydomain.org using an
> Apache virtual host. Inside the admin webinterface all link point
> correctly to http://mailman.mydomain.org, but not the 'Go to list
> archives' Link! It points to the 
>  
>   DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'mydomain.org'
> 
> configuration set in /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py. Setting it to
> 'mailman.mydomain.org' is not a solution, because I'd like to use the
> admin interface from different apache virtual hosts.

I'm not sure, but I think I found the solution myself:

/etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py:
-------------
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mydomain.org'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'mydomain.org'

VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
add_virtualhost('mailman.mydomain.org', 'mydomain.org')
add_virtualhost('mailman.anotherdomain.org', 'anotherdomain.org')
-------------

Marcus



From sruli at alsonetworks.com  Fri Dec 16 13:52:39 2005
From: sruli at alsonetworks.com (Sruli Shaffren)
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 14:52:39 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] htdig configuration question - CGI not working
Message-ID: <015e01c6023f$9a08eff0$6608a8c0@srulitower>

Hi.  I'm runniiing Mailman 2.1.6 and have installed htdig 3.1.6, and
integrated with mailman as per directions in HOWTOs I have found on this
list and elsewhere.
 
The installation of htdig itself seems okay, as does mailman.  I'm able to
use htdig standalone.  But when I try to access 
http://www.my_list_domain.com/mailman/htsearch/mylistname
I get a 404 error.  
 
All the normal mailman functions in that directory work fine, just the ones
added by the htdig integration come up not found.
 
I'd love to get this to work.  Any suggestions?
 
Sruli Shaffren
Also Networks
sruli at alsonetworks.com

 

 


From sruli at alsonetworks.com  Fri Dec 16 15:02:16 2005
From: sruli at alsonetworks.com (Sruli Shaffren)
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 16:02:16 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman / htdig integration problem
Message-ID: <001b01c60249$58ee7ad0$6608a8c0@srulitower>

Hi.  I'm runniing Mailman 2.1.6 and have installed htdig 3.1.6, and
integrated with mailman as per directions in HOWTOs I have found on this
list and elsewhere.
 
The installation of htdig itself seems okay, as does mailman.  I'm able to
use htdig standalone. and mailman runs fine.  But when I try to access 
http://www.my_list_domain.com/mailman/htsearch/mylistname
I get a 404 error.  
 
All the normal mailman functions in that directory work fine, just the ones
added by the htdig integration come up not found.  I've checked ownership
and permissions of the .pyc files in <mailman>/Mailman/Cgi and it seems
fine.  Also <mailman>/cgi-bin contains mmsearch and htdig, seemingly correct
ownership and permissions,
 
I'd love to get this to work.  I bet I left out a step somewhere.  Any
suggestions?

Sruli Shaffren
Also Networks
sruli at alsonetworks.com



From xabier at alsernet.es  Fri Dec 16 09:53:47 2005
From: xabier at alsernet.es (Xabier =?iso-8859-1?q?Guiti=E1n?=)
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 09:53:47 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Python overloading CPU
Message-ID: <200512160953.48147.xabier@alsernet.es>

Hi!
	We've been running mailman for over a long time, and since the summer it 
started to do some weird things, and the last but not least important is that 
we cannot enter in the web as admins and the python process is eaitng up 
every CPY cycle it founds, it's all the time at 99%, more or less. 

	We tried to stop the mailman, killing the process that remains, changing the 
throttle of the postfix, deactivating the HyperThreading of the machine 
(which was working well all this years), and resetting all the system. We 
really don't know what's going on. 

	It's a machine NOT up to date, it uses gentoo with mailman 2.1.5, Apache 
2.0.52, Python 2.3.5, Postfix 2.1.5 and kernel 2.6.10. 

	We'll thank any tip you could give us. Thanks in advance.

-- 
Xabier Guiti?n 
xabier at alsernet.es
Alsernet 2000 S.L.
http://www.alsernet.es
Tlf: 902 187 187 - Fax: 902 187 188


From ostrowb at tblc.org  Fri Dec 16 16:25:15 2005
From: ostrowb at tblc.org (Ben Ostrowsky)
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 10:25:15 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "There are no pending requests"
Message-ID: <000101c60254$ea59cd20$08888040@Bernie>

As you may remember from our last thrilling episode, I've upgraded from
2.1.4 to 2.1.5.  Our users are trying to send messages that are being held
for review, which is fine.  But when we try to release the messages, Mailman
says that there are no pending messages.

I've tried deleting the request.* files as suggested in a previous
discussion
( http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-June/045075.html )
but that didn't solve the problem.

What do you think might be going wrong here?

Ben




From xabier at alsernet.es  Fri Dec 16 18:07:15 2005
From: xabier at alsernet.es (Xabier =?iso-8859-1?q?Guiti=E1n?=)
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 18:07:15 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Doubt with python and mailman
Message-ID: <200512161807.16050.xabier@alsernet.es>

Helo!
	What happens if... you kill python after 'theorically' shutting down the 
mailman correctly? That is you execute the script '/etc/init.d/mailman stop' 
wait half an hour and then kill the python process who is hoggin the CPU with 
99% of use. Is this a problem to the possible mails that were being 
processed? Is it necessary to send them again?

Thanks in advance.
-- 
Xabier Guiti?n 
xabier at alsernet.es
Alsernet 2000 S.L.
http://www.alsernet.es
Tlf: 902 187 187 - Fax: 902 187 188


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Dec 16 18:02:57 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 11:02:57 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How long does an invite last?
In-Reply-To: <20051216112138.A47@warpix.org>
References: <20051216112138.A47@warpix.org>
Message-ID: <p06200718bfc8a3931fee@[192.168.1.100]>

At 11:21 AM +0000 2005-12-16, John Poltorak wrote:

>  When an invitation is sent out from a mailing list for someone to join,
>  how long is it before it expires?

	I'm pretty sure that there is no explicit expiration period. 
However, if that information were stored in a pickle somewhere and 
that pickle were to be deleted, then the invitation would no longer 
be valid.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Dec 16 18:05:20 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 11:05:20 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Python overloading CPU
In-Reply-To: <200512160953.48147.xabier@alsernet.es>
References: <200512160953.48147.xabier@alsernet.es>
Message-ID: <p06200719bfc8a3ca2cdd@[192.168.1.100]>

At 9:53 AM +0100 2005-12-16, Xabier Guiti?n wrote:

>  	We've been running mailman for over a long time, and since the summer it
>  started to do some weird things, and the last but not least important is that
>  we cannot enter in the web as admins and the python process is eaitng up
>  every CPY cycle it founds, it's all the time at 99%, more or less.

	Sounds like you may have lock contention, perhaps built up an 
excessively large backlog in one of your queue directories, or maybe 
you're dealing with the results of a spam attack on your server.

	First, I would recommend that you search the FAQ Wizard for the 
term "troubleshooting", and read all the articles that are returned. 
Then do the same for "performance".  Then search the archives of the 
mailing list.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From clovis at agr.unicamp.br  Fri Dec 16 18:48:06 2005
From: clovis at agr.unicamp.br (Clovis Tristao)
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 15:48:06 -0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Error
Message-ID: <43A2FDD6.1090007@agr.unicamp.br>

Hi,

After install Mailman 2.1.5-35.fc4, i create my own lists, in mailman 
log files are appearing:

Dec 16 15:36:55 2005 (14252) delivery to example at example.net failed with 
code -1: Server not connected

Traceback (most recent call last):
 File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ?
   main()
 File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main
   qrunner.run()
 File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 70, in run
   filecnt = self._oneloop()
 File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 99, in _oneloop
   msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
 File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 143, in dequeue
   fp = open(filename)
IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 
'/var/spool/mailman/out/1134496108.747124+5ce17d96bafc0d36dc0bd85584e82faea0a80de6.pck' 


What's happening?
Thanks a lot,

Cl?vis

-- 
Clovis Tristao - UNICAMP/Faculdade de Engenharia Agricola
Administrador de Redes - Secao de Informatica (SINFO)
E-mail: mailto:clovis at agr.unicamp.br http://www.agr.unicamp.br
Fone(0xx19) 37881031-37881038 ou FAX(55xx19) 37881005/37881010



From cwieland at uci.edu  Fri Dec 16 22:17:07 2005
From: cwieland at uci.edu (Con Wieland)
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 13:17:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error message
Message-ID: <4198D6C0-0BDA-46E9-A855-D81C04BFA774@uci.edu>

any ideas?

Your "cron" job
/usr/local/bin/python -S /usr/local/mailman/cron/senddigests

produced the following output:

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 94, in ?
     main()
   File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 86, in main
     mlist.send_digest_now()
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Digester.py", line 60, in  
send_digest_now
     ToDigest.send_digests(self, mboxfp)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 132,  
in send_digests
     send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 306,  
in send_i18n_digests
     msg = scrubber(mlist, msg)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 262,  
in process
     size = len(payload)
TypeError: len() of unsized object

Con Wieland
Network and Academic Computing Services
University of California at Irvine


From clovis at agr.unicamp.br  Fri Dec 16 23:13:46 2005
From: clovis at agr.unicamp.br (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Cl=F3vis_Trist=E3o?=)
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 20:13:46 -0200 (BRST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error
Message-ID: <1132.200.245.19.39.1134771226.squirrel@jacaranda.agr.unicamp.br>

Hi,

why appear this error in /var/log/mailman/error :

tail -f error
Dec 16 17:08:39 2005 qrunner(20303):      main()
Dec 16 17:08:39 2005 qrunner(20303):   File
"/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main
Dec 16 17:08:39 2005 qrunner(20303):      qrunner.run()
Dec 16 17:08:39 2005 qrunner(20303):   File
"/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 70, in run
Dec 16 17:08:39 2005 qrunner(20303):      filecnt = self._oneloop()
Dec 16 17:08:39 2005 qrunner(20303):   File
"/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 99, in _oneloop
Dec 16 17:08:39 2005 qrunner(20303):      msg, msgdata =
self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
Dec 16 17:08:39 2005 qrunner(20303):   File
"/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 143, in dequeue
Dec 16 17:08:39 2005 qrunner(20303):      fp = open(filename)
Dec 16 17:08:39 2005 qrunner(20303): IOError :  [Errno 2] No such file or
directory:
'/var/spool/mailman/out/1134411545.316112+4db474d87919b9a8ae48c2248befe814964e01d1.pck'

Any idea?
Thanks a lot,

Cl?vis

-- 
Administrador de Redes
Faculdade de Engenharia Agr?cola - FEAGRI
Universidade Estadual de Campinas - UNICAMP
http://www.agr.unicamp.br/



From lists at localguru.de  Sat Dec 17 16:48:05 2005
From: lists at localguru.de (Marcus Sobchak)
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 16:48:05 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rewrite admin links to https://
Message-ID: <1134834486.8968.8.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Hi,

I've set up an ssl based virtual host and changed DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN to
'https://%s/cgi-bin/mailman'. Problem: only new created lists point to
https://. All old list still point to http:// e.g.
from /cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo. I read something about "post-rewriting"
URLs in the archive, but can't find the post again.

Cheers,
Marcus




From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec 17 18:29:57 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 09:29:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rewrite admin links to https://
In-Reply-To: <1134834486.8968.8.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <PC17402005121709295707509233dea7@msapiro>

Marcus Sobchak wrote:
>
>I've set up an ssl based virtual host and changed DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN to
>'https://%s/cgi-bin/mailman'. Problem: only new created lists point to
>https://. All old list still point to http:// e.g.
>from /cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo. I read something about "post-rewriting"
>URLs in the archive, but can't find the post again.


Run bin/fix_url.py for instruction on how to update your pre-existing
lists.

This is covered in at least two FAQ entries. For example, go to
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> and search for https.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Dec 17 18:36:59 2005
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 02:36:59 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Doubt with python and mailman
In-Reply-To: <200512161807.16050.xabier@alsernet.es> (Xabier Guitián's
 message of "Fri, 16 Dec 2005 18:07:15 +0100")
References: <200512161807.16050.xabier@alsernet.es>
Message-ID: <87zmmzaamc.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Xabier" == Xabier Guiti?n <xabier at alsernet.es> writes:

    Xabier> 	What happens if... you kill python after 'theorically'
    Xabier> shutting down the mailman correctly?

The python process stops, dead.<wink>

    Xabier> Is this a problem to the possible mails that were being
    Xabier> processed? Is it necessary to send them again?

It should not be a problem, and you should not have to resend them.

(1) Posts are saved as individual files, kept in spool (queue)
directories.  These directories are processed whenever they have
contents.  This means that those posts that were not being handled
when Mailman went crazy are safe, and that when you restart Mailman,
it will process those queues and send them.

(2) The one post being handled when Mailman goes into a loop is at
risk, but only of being sent twice.

Do you know why python is hanging that way?  You should resolve that
first of all.


-- 
School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Dec 17 18:40:15 2005
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 02:40:15 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "There are no pending requests"
In-Reply-To: <000101c60254$ea59cd20$08888040@Bernie> (Ben Ostrowsky's
	message of "Fri, 16 Dec 2005 10:25:15 -0500")
References: <000101c60254$ea59cd20$08888040@Bernie>
Message-ID: <87vexnaagw.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Ben" == Ben Ostrowsky <ostrowb at tblc.org> writes:

    Ben> As you may remember from our last thrilling episode, I've
    Ben> upgraded from 2.1.4 to 2.1.5.  Our users are trying to send
    Ben> messages that are being held for review, which is fine.  But
    Ben> when we try to release the messages, Mailman says that there
    Ben> are no pending messages.

If the number of messages being held is -1, then there was a
bug/problem with upgrade that caused that.  You go to handle the
messages, you see -1, you try to release -1 messages, after that
things are fine.

Are the messages in fact disappearing, and never being mailed to list
members?

Are any messages getting through?

Is it possible that your mail aliases are pointing to the old Mailman,
which is storing them in the old queue, and the new Mailman isn't
seeing them at all?



-- 
School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec 17 19:18:27 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 10:18:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How long does an invite last?
In-Reply-To: <p06200718bfc8a3931fee@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <PC17402005121710182701568f954d77@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>At 11:21 AM +0000 2005-12-16, John Poltorak wrote:
>
>>  When an invitation is sent out from a mailing list for someone to join,
>>  how long is it before it expires?
>
>	I'm pretty sure that there is no explicit expiration period. 


All confirmations including confirmation (acceptance) of invitations
expire as set by the Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py setting
PENDING_REQUEST_LIFE which defaults to 3 days.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From esavage at digitalrage.org  Sat Dec 17 19:04:05 2005
From: esavage at digitalrage.org (Elijah Savage)
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 13:04:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FreeBSD Postfix2.0 Virtual Domains adding mailman
Message-ID: <43A45315.3010401@digitalrage.org>

All,

I have read through the mailing list and found this thread
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg33593.html
But I am stil a little confused about integrating all this. Postfix has 
been up and running for a long time with virtual domains setup, now I 
want a mailing list for one of these virtual domains. Below you will 
find relevant pieces of my config files. I have not started anything but 
I know it is not setup right so I just want some help getting started, I 
am converting from majordomo which was very easy for me to setup but I 
am a first time user of mailman. If anyone would give me some tips on 
editing the files to get this up and going I would appreciate it. When I 
installed mailman it was from ports and I did install it with mail_gid = 
mailman. The mm_cfg.py is really what has me confused on how it should 
look, it is just the deafult I found in the archives right now.

How I do my virtual hosting with postfix
mail.cf
virtual_alias_domains = xxxxx.com
virtual_alias_maps = hash:/usr/local/etc/postfix/virtual

virtual
#virtual domain users to local mailboxes
xxxxx at xxxxx.com   xxxxx at localhost

Defaults.py
# because otherwise the default mappings won't be correct.
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'virtualdomain.com'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.mainsite.com'
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'

# Virtual domains
#####

# Set up your virtual host mappings here.  This is primarily used for the
# thru-the-web list creation, so its effects are currently fairly limited.
# Use add_virtualhost() call to add new mappings.  The keys are strings as
# determined by Utils.get_domain(), the values are as appropriate for
# DEFAULT_HOST_NAME.
VIRTUAL_HOSTS = {}

# When set to Yes, the listinfo and admin overviews of lists on the machine
# will be confined to only those lists whose web_page_url configuration 
option
# host is included within the URL by which the page is visited - only those
# "on the virtual host".  When set to No, all advertised (i.e. public) lists
# are included in the overview.
VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = On


mm_cfg.py
# Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.
MTA = 'Postfix'
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['virt-domain.com', 'virt.domain2.com']
add_virtualhost('www.virt.domain.com', 'virt.domain.com')


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec 17 22:16:26 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 13:16:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] htdig configuration question - CGI not working
In-Reply-To: <015e01c6023f$9a08eff0$6608a8c0@srulitower>
Message-ID: <PC174020051217131626048435d6b01e@msapiro>

Sruli Shaffren wrote:

>Hi.  I'm runniiing Mailman 2.1.6 and have installed htdig 3.1.6, and
>integrated with mailman as per directions in HOWTOs I have found on this
>list and elsewhere.


Does this mean you have installed patches 444879 and 444884?


>The installation of htdig itself seems okay, as does mailman.  I'm able to
>use htdig standalone.  But when I try to access 
>http://www.my_list_domain.com/mailman/htsearch/mylistname
>I get a 404 error.  


The various patched makefile.in files when configured by configure and
run via 'make install' should add htdig and mmsearch wrappers to the
cgi-bin directory in your mailman installation. In addition, the
patches should add links to the archives of the form

http://www.my_list_domain.com/mailman/mmsearch/mylistname

not

http://www.my_list_domain.com/mailman/htsearch/mylistname

 
>All the normal mailman functions in that directory work fine, just the ones
>added by the htdig integration come up not found.
> 
>I'd love to get this to work.  Any suggestions?


Have you modified the patches in any way? In particular, have you
replaced 'mmsearch' with 'htsearch' anywhere?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec 17 22:24:09 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 13:24:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Doubt with python and mailman
In-Reply-To: <200512161807.16050.xabier@alsernet.es>
Message-ID: <PC174020051217132409003135d6ae48@msapiro>

Xabier Guiti?n wrote:

>	What happens if... you kill python after 'theorically' shutting down the 
>mailman correctly? That is you execute the script '/etc/init.d/mailman stop' 
>wait half an hour and then kill the python process who is hoggin the CPU with 
>99% of use.

Which specific qrunner process is it that's looping and won't die.
Whichever one it is, the queue that it processes is probably the one
that is causing the problem.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec 17 22:31:17 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 13:31:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error
In-Reply-To: <1132.200.245.19.39.1134771226.squirrel@jacaranda.agr.unicamp.br>
Message-ID: <PC174020051217133117081235d6b15d@msapiro>

Cl?vis Trist?o wrote
>
>why appear this error in /var/log/mailman/error :
>
>tail -f error
>Dec 16 17:08:39 2005 qrunner(20303):      main()
>Dec 16 17:08:39 2005 qrunner(20303):   File
>"/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main
>Dec 16 17:08:39 2005 qrunner(20303):      qrunner.run()
>Dec 16 17:08:39 2005 qrunner(20303):   File
>"/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 70, in run
>Dec 16 17:08:39 2005 qrunner(20303):      filecnt =3D self._oneloop()
>Dec 16 17:08:39 2005 qrunner(20303):   File
>"/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 99, in _oneloop
>Dec 16 17:08:39 2005 qrunner(20303):      msg, msgdata =3D
>self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
>Dec 16 17:08:39 2005 qrunner(20303):   File
>"/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 143, in dequeue
>Dec 16 17:08:39 2005 qrunner(20303):      fp =3D open(filename)
>Dec 16 17:08:39 2005 qrunner(20303): IOError :  [Errno 2] No such file or
>directory:
>'/var/spool/mailman/out/1134411545.316112+4db474d87919b9a8ae48c2248befe8149=
>64e01d1.pck'

The outgoing runner is trying to get and process the queue entry and
another runner has dequeued it. It is likely that you did a
'mailmanctl -s start' when mailman was still running and got two sets
of qrunners running at once.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec 17 22:34:07 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 13:34:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Error
In-Reply-To: <43A2FDD6.1090007@agr.unicamp.br>
Message-ID: <PC174020051217133407029635d6af4f@msapiro>

Clovis Tristao wrote:
>
>After install Mailman 2.1.5-35.fc4, i create my own lists, in mailman 
>log files are appearing:
>
>Dec 16 15:36:55 2005 (14252) delivery to example at example.net failed with 
>code -1: Server not connected

This comes from the SMTPDirect delivery module. The outgoing mail
server has dropped the SMTP connection.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec 17 22:56:06 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 13:56:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error message
In-Reply-To: <4198D6C0-0BDA-46E9-A855-D81C04BFA774@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <PC174020051217135606040635d6afbc@msapiro>

Con Wieland wrote:

>any ideas?
>
>Your "cron" job
>/usr/local/bin/python -S /usr/local/mailman/cron/senddigests
>
>produced the following output:
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 94, in ?
>     main()
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 86, in main
>     mlist.send_digest_now()
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Digester.py", line 60, in  
>send_digest_now
>     ToDigest.send_digests(self, mboxfp)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 132,  
>in send_digests
>     send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 306,  
>in send_i18n_digests
>     msg = scrubber(mlist, msg)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 262,  
>in process
>     size = len(payload)
>TypeError: len() of unsized object


This was fixed in Mailman 2.1.6

Some list's lists/listname/digest.mbox has a message with the following
characteristics:

# XXX Under email 2.5, it is possible that payload will be None.
# This can happen when you have a Content-Type: multipart/* with
# only one part and that part has two blank lines between the
# first boundary and the end boundary.

Or possibly a message with different characteristics that produces the
same symptom. You can work around this by finding the offending
message and editing the digest.mbox, or see
<http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/mailman/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py?r1=2.18.2.12&r2=2.18.2.13>
for a fix.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From esavage at digitalrage.org  Sun Dec 18 03:40:09 2005
From: esavage at digitalrage.org (Elijah Savage)
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 21:40:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual user does not exist in virtual table
Message-ID: <43A4CC09.6020501@digitalrage.org>

All,

I went ahead and tried to finish setting this all up. I created the test 
list and the mailman list and also have the website portion working. But 
when I send a message to subscribe or test-subscribe I get this message 
in my maillog. I did restart postfix after screating the list.

User unknown in virtual alias table

Here is my config file portions below

mail.cf
alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases

data/mailman/aliases
  STANZA START: test
# CREATED: Sat Dec 17 21:00:43 2005
test:             "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post test"
test-admin:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin test"
test-bounces:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces test"
test-confirm:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm test"
test-join:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join test"
test-leave:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave test"
test-owner:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner test"
test-request:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request test"
test-subscribe:   "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe test"
test-unsubscribe: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe test"
# STANZA END: test


mm_cfg.py
MTA = 'Postfix'
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['xxxxx.com']


From esavage at digitalrage.org  Sun Dec 18 04:55:38 2005
From: esavage at digitalrage.org (Elijah Savage)
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:55:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual user does not exist in virtual table
In-Reply-To: <43A4CC09.6020501@digitalrage.org>
References: <43A4CC09.6020501@digitalrage.org>
Message-ID: <43A4DDBA.5060400@digitalrage.org>

Elijah Savage wrote:
> All,
> 
> I went ahead and tried to finish setting this all up. I created the test 
> list and the mailman list and also have the website portion working. But 
> when I send a message to subscribe or test-subscribe I get this message 
> in my maillog. I did restart postfix after screating the list.
> 
> User unknown in virtual alias table
> 
> Here is my config file portions below
> 
> mail.cf
> alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases
> 
> data/mailman/aliases
>   STANZA START: test
> # CREATED: Sat Dec 17 21:00:43 2005
> test:             "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post test"
> test-admin:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin test"
> test-bounces:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces test"
> test-confirm:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm test"
> test-join:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join test"
> test-leave:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave test"
> test-owner:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner test"
> test-request:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request test"
> test-subscribe:   "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe test"
> test-unsubscribe: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe test"
> # STANZA END: test
> 
> 
> mm_cfg.py
> MTA = 'Postfix'
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['xxxxx.com']
> ------------------------------------------------------

I figured it out now to tighten things up a bit.
I needed to add

virtual_alias_maps = hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

to my postfix main.cf

I thought I had this in there and it was but some how I think I possibly 
fat fingered it I had it commented out. Once I get it like I want and 
not that we need one but I will be writing a step by step how to for 
postfix and mailman on FreeBSD for my benefit.


-- 
http://www.digitalrage.org/
The Information Technology News Center


From jp at warpix.org  Sun Dec 18 12:18:12 2005
From: jp at warpix.org (John Poltorak)
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 11:18:12 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How long does an invite last?
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005121710182701568f954d77@msapiro>;
	from Mark Sapiro on Sat, Dec 17, 2005 at 10:18:27AM -0800
References: <p06200718bfc8a3931fee@[192.168.1.100]>
	<PC17402005121710182701568f954d77@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20051218111812.C51@warpix.org>

On Sat, Dec 17, 2005 at 10:18:27AM -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Brad Knowles wrote:
> 
> >At 11:21 AM +0000 2005-12-16, John Poltorak wrote:
> >
> >>  When an invitation is sent out from a mailing list for someone to join,
> >>  how long is it before it expires?
> >
> >	I'm pretty sure that there is no explicit expiration period. 
> 
> 
> All confirmations including confirmation (acceptance) of invitations
> expire as set by the Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py setting
> PENDING_REQUEST_LIFE which defaults to 3 days.

Can this default be set after the invite goes out?

> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 


-- 
John




From msapiro at value.net  Sun Dec 18 16:00:06 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 07:00:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How long does an invite last?
In-Reply-To: <20051218111812.C51@warpix.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402005121807000600460b03c134@msapiro>

John Poltorak wrote:

>On Sat, Dec 17, 2005 at 10:18:27AM -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> 
>> All confirmations including confirmation (acceptance) of invitations
>> expire as set by the Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py setting
>> PENDING_REQUEST_LIFE which defaults to 3 days.
>
>Can this default be set after the invite goes out?

Changing PENDING_REQUEST_LIFE will not affect the lifetime of any
currently pending requests, but it will change the reported time in
messages such as

  Note that confirmation strings expire approximately
  %(days)s days after the initial subscription request.  If your
  confirmation has expired, please try to re-submit your subscription.

possibly causing confusion for the user who replies to an expired
invitation within the new time limit.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From sruli at alsonetworks.com  Sun Dec 18 18:41:52 2005
From: sruli at alsonetworks.com (Sruli Shaffren)
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 19:41:52 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] htdig configuration question - CGI not working
Message-ID: <006401c603fa$57072070$6608a8c0@srulitower>

Hi.  I've solved this.  I seemed to have had two copies of the CGI programs,
one in /usr/share/mailman and the other in /var/www/mailman - I guess one
was from a botched install.  Once I made sure mmsearch and htdig were in the
right place, all was well.  I must have done the htdig configure with the
wrong directory.

Thanks for your help, 

Sruli Shaffren
Also Networks
sruli at alsonetworks.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net]
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 11:16 PM
To: Sruli Shaffren; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] htdig configuration question - CGI not working

Sruli Shaffren wrote:

>Hi.  I'm runniiing Mailman 2.1.6 and have installed htdig 3.1.6, and 
>integrated with mailman as per directions in HOWTOs I have found on 
>this list and elsewhere.


Does this mean you have installed patches 444879 and 444884?


>The installation of htdig itself seems okay, as does mailman.  I'm able 
>to use htdig standalone.  But when I try to access 
>http://www.my_list_domain.com/mailman/htsearch/mylistname
>I get a 404 error.  


The various patched makefile.in files when configured by configure and run
via 'make install' should add htdig and mmsearch wrappers to the cgi-bin
directory in your mailman installation. In addition, the patches should add
links to the archives of the form

http://www.my_list_domain.com/mailman/mmsearch/mylistname

not

http://www.my_list_domain.com/mailman/htsearch/mylistname

 
>All the normal mailman functions in that directory work fine, just the 
>ones added by the htdig integration come up not found.
> 
>I'd love to get this to work.  Any suggestions?


Have you modified the patches in any way? In particular, have you replaced
'mmsearch' with 'htsearch' anywhere?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From hugo at hugovil.com  Sun Dec 18 20:17:42 2005
From: hugo at hugovil.com (Hugo Villeneuve)
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 14:17:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Errors with fcron jobs
Message-ID: <20051218141742.61a123bf.hugo@hugovil.com>

Hi,

	I'm using fcron to schedule the mailman jobs. I configured fcron to run the mailman jobs as the mailman user (fcrontab -u mailman...). I also created the mailman user with no login shell (/bin/false), similar to what is suggested in the mailman installation manual.

	When the mailman jobs are run by fcron, an exit status of 1 is returned. I have found that if I replace the "/bin/false" shell entry with "/bin/sh" for the mailman user in the /etc/passwd file, fcron correctly runs the mailman jobs.

	What can be wrong with my setup?

	Hugo V.

	

	


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Dec 18 23:15:46 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 14:15:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Errors with fcron jobs
In-Reply-To: <20051218141742.61a123bf.hugo@hugovil.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512181415460952831b3f26@msapiro>

Hugo Villeneuve wrote:
>
>	I'm using fcron to schedule the mailman jobs. I configured fcron to run the mailman jobs as the mailman user (fcrontab -u mailman...). I also created the mailman user with no login shell (/bin/false), similar to what is suggested in the mailman installation manual.
>
>	When the mailman jobs are run by fcron, an exit status of 1 is returned. I have found that if I replace the "/bin/false" shell entry with "/bin/sh" for the mailman user in the /etc/passwd file, fcron correctly runs the mailman jobs.
>
>	What can be wrong with my setup?

The installation manual assumes you'll use cron.

fcron by default runs commands using the user's login shell from
/etc/passwd. Thus you have to either specify a valid shell in
/etc/passwd or override it by assigning to SHELL in the crontab.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec 19 00:20:58 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 15:20:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pending requests not seen
In-Reply-To: <1134697249.10531.41.camel@yamaha.itss.auckland.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512181520580374cfabe7d0@msapiro>

Terry Grey wrote:
>
>We have recently upgraded to ver 2.1.6 and are currently experiencing a
>problem with pending moderator requests. The emails are sent to the list
>admins correctly but when accessing the admindb web page there is the
>message "Click on the message number to view the individual message, or
>you can view all messages from yyy at auckland.ac.nz". There are no
>messages listed and clicking on the link takes you to the "no more
>pending requests" page.
>
>The held messages are still in the mailman/data directory.

Have you run bin/check_perms on the upgraded installation?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From hugo at hugovil.com  Mon Dec 19 00:36:31 2005
From: hugo at hugovil.com (Hugo Villeneuve)
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 18:36:31 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Errors with fcron jobs
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200512181415460952831b3f26@msapiro>
References: <20051218141742.61a123bf.hugo@hugovil.com>
	<PC1740200512181415460952831b3f26@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20051218183631.6cdf9c5b.hugo@hugovil.com>

On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 14:15:46 -0800
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Hugo Villeneuve wrote:
> >
> >	I'm using fcron to schedule the mailman jobs. I configured fcron to run the mailman jobs as the mailman user (fcrontab -u mailman...). I also created the mailman user with no login shell (/bin/false), similar to what is suggested in the mailman installation manual.
> >
> >	When the mailman jobs are run by fcron, an exit status of 1 is returned. I have found that if I replace the "/bin/false" shell entry with "/bin/sh" for the mailman user in the /etc/passwd file, fcron correctly runs the mailman jobs.
> >
> >	What can be wrong with my setup?
> 
> The installation manual assumes you'll use cron.
> 
> fcron by default runs commands using the user's login shell from
> /etc/passwd. Thus you have to either specify a valid shell in
> /etc/passwd or override it by assigning to SHELL in the crontab.

In the fcron configuration file, I have already this line for the shell:
     shell = /bin/sh

Are there any people using fcron and having success runnin mailman jobs under the mailman user ID, and without having to specify a login shell in /etc/passwd?

Hugo.


From t.grey at auckland.ac.nz  Mon Dec 19 00:43:13 2005
From: t.grey at auckland.ac.nz (Terry Grey)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 12:43:13 +1300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pending requests not seen
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200512181520580374cfabe7d0@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200512181520580374cfabe7d0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1134949393.10531.114.camel@yamaha.itss.auckland.ac.nz>

On Sun, 2005-12-18 at 15:20 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Terry Grey wrote:
> >
> >We have recently upgraded to ver 2.1.6 and are currently experiencing a
> >problem with pending moderator requests. The emails are sent to the list
> >admins correctly but when accessing the admindb web page there is the
> >message "Click on the message number to view the individual message, or
> >you can view all messages from yyy at auckland.ac.nz". There are no
> >messages listed and clicking on the link takes you to the "no more
> >pending requests" page.
> >
> >The held messages are still in the mailman/data directory.
> 
> Have you run bin/check_perms on the upgraded installation?
> 

Yes I have run bin/check_perms and fixed a few inconsequential
permission problems.

We managed to fix the problem this morning by recompiling Mailman with
the correct directory. What we did for the upgrade was to copy existing
Mailman directories from the old machine to the same location on the new
machine. I then built Mailman in a directory
called /usr/local/mailman2.1.6 and copied the binaries over to
the /usr/local/mailman directory. What I did not realise is that the
directory is hard coded into the cgi-bin scripts. 

Thank you for your suggestion though.

Terence

-- 
Terence Grey,  IT Systems & Services,  University of Auckland, New Zealand.
========================================================================
  
      --- This message was written using recycled electrons ---




From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec 19 01:00:33 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 16:00:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Errors with fcron jobs
In-Reply-To: <20051218183631.6cdf9c5b.hugo@hugovil.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512181600330358b3641dc7@msapiro>

Hugo Villeneuve wrote:
>
>In the fcron configuration file, I have already this line for the shell:
>     shell = /bin/sh


Well, I don't use fcron so I don't know for sure, but looking at the
various manpages leads me to think that the shell= setting in the
fcron config file is only a default if the shell is not otherwise
specified.

man 5 fcrontab

says

  When fcron executes a command, it always sets USER, HOME, and SHELL
  as defined in /etc/passwd for the owner of the fcrontab from which
  the command is extracted. HOME and SHELL may be overridden by
  settings in the fcrontab, but USER may not. Every other environment
  assignments defined in the user fcrontab are then made, and the
  command is executed.

Note the word 'always'. This suggests that you need

SHELL = /bin/sh

preceding any commands in the fcrontab entry itself.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From tmz at pobox.com  Mon Dec 19 00:56:47 2005
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 18:56:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Errors with fcron jobs
In-Reply-To: <20051218183631.6cdf9c5b.hugo@hugovil.com>
References: <20051218141742.61a123bf.hugo@hugovil.com>
	<PC1740200512181415460952831b3f26@msapiro>
	<20051218183631.6cdf9c5b.hugo@hugovil.com>
Message-ID: <20051218235647.GE12215@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hugo Villeneuve wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 14:15:46 -0800
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>> fcron by default runs commands using the user's login shell from
>> /etc/passwd. Thus you have to either specify a valid shell in
>> /etc/passwd or override it by assigning to SHELL in the crontab.
>
> In the fcron configuration file, I have already this line for the shell:
>      shell = /bin/sh

I'm not an fcron user, but I doubt that shell is the same as SHELL.
Try setting SHELL = /bin/sh in your crontab and see if that works
better.

This is what the fcrontab(5) manpage says:

    When fcron executes a command, it always sets USER, HOME, and
    SHELL as defined in /etc/passwd for the owner of the fcrontab from
    which the command is extracted. HOME and SHELL may be overridden
    by settings in the fcrontab, but USER may not.  Every other
    environment assignments defined in the user fcrontab are then
    made, and the command is executed.

- -- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
Despite the high cost of living, it remains a popular item.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.

iG0EARECAC0FAkOl9z4mGGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucG9ib3guY29tL350bXovcGdwL3Rt
ei5hc2MACgkQuv+09NZUB1rZhACeI6atn8apKXE1qsw7Xc5ppm3zldIAoLlFLwm7
3R/vI2NugUy+1VuZcAhP
=WcT4
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From hugo at hugovil.com  Mon Dec 19 04:13:58 2005
From: hugo at hugovil.com (Hugo Villeneuve)
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 22:13:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Errors with fcron jobs
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200512181600330358b3641dc7@msapiro>
References: <20051218183631.6cdf9c5b.hugo@hugovil.com>
	<PC1740200512181600330358b3641dc7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20051218221358.4f41ac8d.hugo@hugovil.com>

Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Well, I don't use fcron so I don't know for sure, but looking at the
> various manpages leads me to think that the shell= setting in the
> fcron config file is only a default if the shell is not otherwise
> specified.
> 
> man 5 fcrontab
> 
> says
> 
>   When fcron executes a command, it always sets USER, HOME, and SHELL
>   as defined in /etc/passwd for the owner of the fcrontab from which
>   the command is extracted. HOME and SHELL may be overridden by
>   settings in the fcrontab, but USER may not. Every other environment
>   assignments defined in the user fcrontab are then made, and the
>   command is executed.
> 
> Note the word 'always'. This suggests that you need
> 
> SHELL = /bin/sh
> 
> preceding any commands in the fcrontab entry itself.

Thanks Mark,
	Adding SHELL = /bin/sh to my mailman crontab solved my problem. I think it would be a good idea to add a note to the Mailman installation manual for people using fcron instead of cron. I have attached my complete crontab as a reference for anyone having this problem.

	Hugo.


From hugo at hugovil.com  Mon Dec 19 04:27:16 2005
From: hugo at hugovil.com (Hugo Villeneuve)
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 22:27:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Errors with fcron jobs
In-Reply-To: <20051218221358.4f41ac8d.hugo@hugovil.com>
References: <20051218183631.6cdf9c5b.hugo@hugovil.com>
	<PC1740200512181600330358b3641dc7@msapiro>
	<20051218221358.4f41ac8d.hugo@hugovil.com>
Message-ID: <20051218222716.0ad11e75.hugo@hugovil.com>

Hugo Villeneuve <hugo at hugovil.com> wrote:
> Thanks Mark,
> 	Adding SHELL = /bin/sh to my mailman crontab solved my problem. I think it would be a good idea to add a note to the Mailman installation manual for people using fcron instead of cron. I have attached my complete crontab as a reference for anyone having this problem.

Here is my fcrontab (the previous email did not contain it):

Begin fcrontab
-----------------------------------------
!mailto(postmaster)

# This is needed because the mailman user doesn't have a
# login shell defined in /etc/passwd.
SHELL = /bin/sh

# At 8AM every day, mail reminders to admins as to pending requests.
# They are less likely to ignore these reminders if they're mailed
# early in the morning, but of course, this is local time... ;)
0 8 * * * /usr/bin/python -S /usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs
#
# At 9AM, send notifications to disabled members that are due to be
# reminded to re-enable their accounts.
0 9 * * * /usr/bin/python -S /usr/lib/mailman/cron/disabled
#
# Noon, mail digests for lists that do periodic as well as threshhold delivery.
0 12 * * * /usr/bin/python -S /usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests
#
# 5 AM on the first of each month, mail out password reminders.
0 5 1 * * /usr/bin/python -S /usr/lib/mailman/cron/mailpasswds
#
# Every 5 mins, try to gate news to mail.  You can comment this one out
# if you don't want to allow gating, or don't have any going on right now,
# or want to exclusively use a callback strategy instead of polling.
0,5,10,15,20,25,30,35,40,45,50,55 * * * * /usr/bin/python -S /usr/lib/mailman/cron/gate_news
#
# At 3:27am every night, regenerate the gzip'd archive file.  Only
# turn this on if the internal archiver is used and
# GZIP_ARCHIVE_TXT_FILES is false in mm_cfg.py
27 3 * * * /usr/bin/python -S /usr/lib/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip
-----------------------------------------
End fcrontab


From pmoss at fcg.com  Mon Dec 19 14:45:23 2005
From: pmoss at fcg.com (Moss, Patricia)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 08:45:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Namazu and mailman
Message-ID: <30A2052826E26449AEEF1D745E38C75201CDB54B@pant03.fcg.com>

Does anyone have experience with getting Namazu to work with Mailman?

I am running mailman version 2.1.5-33 on a RedHat Linux ES4.0 server.

I used this documentation to install and configure Namazu:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-June/037580.html

I made an edit to archtocnombox.html rather than archtoc.html.  This
made the search box appear on my page.

However, when I would try to do a search I would get an error because it
was not finding/recognizing my rc file.  I'm not sure what else to tweak
to make this work.  Any help is greatly appreciated.  Thanks.

 

Pati Moss

Unix Systems Administrator

"UNIX is user friendly. It's just picky about who it's friends with."

 



This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.


From ostrowb at tblc.org  Mon Dec 19 16:37:56 2005
From: ostrowb at tblc.org (Ben Ostrowsky)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 10:37:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "There are no pending requests"
In-Reply-To: <87vexnaagw.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <000d01c604b2$2ee6df50$08888040@Bernie>

> If the number of messages being held is -1, then there was a 
> bug/problem with upgrade that caused that.  You go to handle 
> the messages, you see -1, you try to release -1 messages, 
> after that things are fine.

No, the message I get is "ipac Administrative Database (newline)
There are no pending requests. Click here to reload this page."

> Are the messages in fact disappearing, and never being mailed 
> to list members?

I'm not sure whether the messages are still being held somewhere.

> Are any messages getting through?

Yes, some messages are getting through.

> Is it possible that your mail aliases are pointing to the old 
> Mailman, which is storing them in the old queue, and the new 
> Mailman isn't seeing them at all?

Probably not, since the old Mailman is on a different server.

I've also tried bin/check_perms -f and was told there were no problems.

What else might be going on?

Ben




From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec 19 17:04:50 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 08:04:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "There are no pending requests"
In-Reply-To: <000d01c604b2$2ee6df50$08888040@Bernie>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512190804500734cd19bf90@msapiro>

Ben Ostrowsky wrote:
>
>No, the message I get is "ipac Administrative Database (newline)
>There are no pending requests. Click here to reload this page."


Which says that there are no messages listed in lists/ipac/request.pck.


>I'm not sure whether the messages are still being held somewhere.


If messages are still held, they will be in individual files in data/
with names like heldmsg-ipac-nnnn.pck

Does the list owner/moderator actually receive notification that the
message is being held or that messages are waiting approval? If the
only notices are daily 'nn pending requests' messages, are these being
mailed from the old installation?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mbonanno at sas.upenn.edu  Mon Dec 19 17:40:03 2005
From: mbonanno at sas.upenn.edu (Michael Bonanno)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 11:40:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman] Cron <mailman@college> /usr/bin/python -S,
	/usr/share/mailman/cron/gate_news
Message-ID: <43A6E263.5000407@sas.upenn.edu>

I have been get an this email message, as a member of the "mailman" list
on my server, every 5 minutes.

subject:
[Mailman] Cron <mailman at college> /usr/bin/python -S
/usr/share/mailman/cron/gate_news

body:
shell-init: could not get current directory: getcwd: cannot access
parent directories: Permission denied

I have run check_perms -f, but to no avail.  I'm sure there is some kind 
of permissions issue with the mailman user.  I'm using Mac OS X server 
10.3.9 and the using the Apple built-in mailman server.

Anyone have any ideas?  Or is this a problem with the cron daemon?

Michael


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec 19 18:24:25 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 09:24:25 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman] Cron <mailman@college>
	/usr/bin/python -S, /usr/share/mailman/cron/gate_news
In-Reply-To: <43A6E263.5000407@sas.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402005121909242500311ebc49b8@msapiro>

Michael Bonanno wrote:

>I have been get an this email message, as a member of the "mailman" list
>on my server, every 5 minutes.
>
>subject:
>[Mailman] Cron <mailman at college> /usr/bin/python -S
>/usr/share/mailman/cron/gate_news
>
>body:
>shell-init: could not get current directory: getcwd: cannot access
>parent directories: Permission denied


The standard Mailman crontab runs the command in the subject every 5
minutes to collect messages from usenet groups and post them to
mailman lists that have mail<->news gateways configured.

It appears that the actual command is not being executed for the reason
in the message body. If this is the case, it probably will affect all
the commands in Mailman's crontab. There are six standard Mailman cron
commands - gate_news runs every 5 minutes; checkdbs, senddigests,
disabled and nightly_gzip run daily at different times, and
mailpasswds runs monthly. Do any of these run successfully? Do any
crons for any user run successfully?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ostrowb at tblc.org  Mon Dec 19 18:45:33 2005
From: ostrowb at tblc.org (Ben Ostrowsky)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 12:45:33 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "There are no pending requests"
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200512190804500734cd19bf90@msapiro>
Message-ID: <008d01c604c4$03122620$08888040@Bernie>

Looks like my system wasn't as configured as I thought it was.  Never mind,
I'm sure I'll have other questions later.

Ben




From ostrowb at tblc.org  Mon Dec 19 19:21:22 2005
From: ostrowb at tblc.org (Ben Ostrowsky)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 13:21:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configuring Apache for Mailman - /pipermail/ is
	redirecting in a way I don't like
Message-ID: <00af01c604c9$04163660$08888040@Bernie>

I can't see the archives because Apache is redirecting requests for
pipermail:

[root at www2 httpd]# telnet lists.tblc.org 80
Trying 64.128.136.9...
Connected to lists.tblc.org (64.128.136.9).
Escape character is '^]'.
HEAD /pipermail/ipac/ HTTP/1.1
Host: lists.tblc.org

HTTP/1.1 302 Found
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 18:20:34 GMT
Server: Apache/2.0.52 (Red Hat)
Location: http://lists.tblc.org/mailman/listinfo
Connection: close
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1

Connection closed by foreign host.



These Apache directives are in play:

In conf/httpd.conf:

<VirtualHost *:80>
ServerName lists.tblc.org
DocumentRoot /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/
RedirectMatch /index.html http://lists.tblc.org/mailman/listinfo
TransferLog /var/log/httpd/lists.tblc.org/access_log
ErrorLog /var/log/httpd/lists.tblc.org/error_log
</VirtualHost>

In conf.d/mailman.conf:

ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/
<Directory /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/>
    AllowOverride None
    Options ExecCGI
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
</Directory>

Alias /pipermail/ /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/
<Directory /var/lib/mailman/archives/public>
    Options Indexes MultiViews FollowSymLinks
    AllowOverride None
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
</Directory>

RedirectMatch ^/mailman[/]*$ http://lists.tblc.org/mailman/listinfo



Can anyone spot where I'm going wrong?

Ben




From elvisfern at gmail.com  Mon Dec 19 19:46:12 2005
From: elvisfern at gmail.com (Elvis Fernandes)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 10:46:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Date stamp in pipermail is GMT
Message-ID: <5b1c0dc50512191046v67700087uf73b33cae51b56cc@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I setup mailman-2.1.6 with date stamp patch (date-in-archive-index-1.patch)
on Solaris8.
Now the date and time show up against every msg in pipermail archives.

However, the date and time in pipermail is in GMT.
The same mail I receive in my mail reader in PST.

Is there some place I can update the pipermail timezone to PST?

Elvis


From Julia_Frizzell at brown.edu  Mon Dec 19 20:05:13 2005
From: Julia_Frizzell at brown.edu (Julia Frizzell)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 14:05:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Next step, Announce Only
Message-ID: <p06230909bfccb3eb2619@[128.148.108.69]>

Okay, I've fixed the SMTP problems, and my lists are working, yay! 
But now my boss wants to make two announce-only lists, and we're 
trying to follow the directions in the FAQ:

>In Mailman 2.1.x you can customize the welcome message.  Create
>   a directory lists/<yourlist>/en (assuming English :) and copy
>   templates/subscribeack.txt to this directory.  Then edit this file
>   for your specific wording.  Mailman will use this specialized
>   template for the English welcome messages.

We've found where Mac OS X Server keeps these files ... 
/private/var/mailman/ ... and we see that there is already a lists 
directory there.

So we went into the specific list and created the /en directory, and 
then /templates in there, and put the subscribeack.txt file into it, 
all edited as he wants it.

But it's still not working. I'm afraid that I'm getting confused with 
the wording in the FAQ above. The new file is located in 
/private/var/mailman/lists/<listname>/en/templates/subscribeack.txt. 
Is this the proper location?

And if so, then is there another step I'm missing to make this work right?

Any help you can give would be greatly appreciated by me and my boss!
-- 
Julia Frizzell
Systems Administrator/Help Desk Manager
The Education Alliance
222 Richmond Street, Suite 300
Providence, Rhode Island  02903-4226
julia_frizzell at brown.edu
401.274.9548 x311 or 800.521.9550 x311
401.421.7650 (fax)
http://www.alliance.brown.edu


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec 19 20:12:00 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 11:12:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configuring Apache for Mailman - /pipermail/
	isredirecting in a way I don't like
In-Reply-To: <00af01c604c9$04163660$08888040@Bernie>
Message-ID: <PC17402005121911120000789689ff8e@msapiro>

Ben Ostrowsky wrote:

>I can't see the archives because Apache is redirecting requests for
>pipermail:
>
>[root at www2 httpd]# telnet lists.tblc.org 80
>Trying 64.128.136.9...
>Connected to lists.tblc.org (64.128.136.9).
>Escape character is '^]'.
>HEAD /pipermail/ipac/ HTTP/1.1
>Host: lists.tblc.org
>
>HTTP/1.1 302 Found
>Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 18:20:34 GMT
>Server: Apache/2.0.52 (Red Hat)
>Location: http://lists.tblc.org/mailman/listinfo
>Connection: close
>Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>Connection closed by foreign host.
>
>
>
>These Apache directives are in play:
>
>In conf/httpd.conf:
>
><VirtualHost *:80>
>ServerName lists.tblc.org
>DocumentRoot /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/


I'm not sure why you want the above. It's not necessary.


>RedirectMatch /index.html http://lists.tblc.org/mailman/listinfo


This is the redirect that is messing up your archive access. Possibly
anchoring it as in

RedirectMatch ^/index.html http://lists.tblc.org/mailman/listinfo

will do what you want.

Normally one has something like

RedirectMatch ^/mailman[/]*$ http://lists.tblc.org/mailman/listinfo

which you have in your global configuration and which redirects
http://lists.tblc.org/mailman to the listinfo page. If you want to
redirect http://lists.tbls.org/ to the listinfo page, you could try

RedirectMatch ^[/]+$ http://lists.tblc.org/mailman/listinfo

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec 19 20:25:41 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 11:25:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Date stamp in pipermail is GMT
In-Reply-To: <5b1c0dc50512191046v67700087uf73b33cae51b56cc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512191125410421e483f36e@msapiro>

Elvis Fernandes wrote:
>
>I setup mailman-2.1.6 with date stamp patch (date-in-archive-index-1.patch)
>on Solaris8.
>Now the date and time show up against every msg in pipermail archives.
>
>However, the date and time in pipermail is in GMT.
>The same mail I receive in my mail reader in PST.
>
>Is there some place I can update the pipermail timezone to PST?


The patch you installed added the following four lines around line 1035
in Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py.

        date = float(date)
        date = time.gmtime(date)
        date = time.strftime("%b %d %Y - %H:%M:%S",date)
        date = CGIescape(date, self.lang)

If you change

        date = time.gmtime(date)
to
        date = time.localtime(date)

you'll get local time.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From Charlene.Wingert at gov.bc.ca  Mon Dec 19 20:20:19 2005
From: Charlene.Wingert at gov.bc.ca (Wingert, Charlene LCS:EX)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 11:20:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Majordomo to mailman list conversion for MM2.1?
Message-ID: <0FEDAD2E5DA2C14D812FAB3ECE50E9CF11DDA6@kennel.idir.bcgov>

Hi Mailman'ers,
  I'm wondering if anyone has actually come across a conversion program
for Majordomo to Mailman for MM2.1?  I have been informed by Heikel that
his majordomo2mailman.pl upgrade is not happening anytime soon...

Thanks all,
Charlene Wingert

Charlene.Wingert at gov.bc.ca



From elvisfern at gmail.com  Mon Dec 19 20:38:07 2005
From: elvisfern at gmail.com (Elvis Fernandes)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 11:38:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Date stamp in pipermail is GMT
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200512191125410421e483f36e@msapiro>
References: <5b1c0dc50512191046v67700087uf73b33cae51b56cc@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200512191125410421e483f36e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <5b1c0dc50512191138r30d3021dob304a85d6d55b1d3@mail.gmail.com>

Mark,

Perfect!
Works like a song.

Thanks
Elvis

On 12/19/05, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Elvis Fernandes wrote:
> >
> >I setup mailman-2.1.6 with date stamp patch (
> date-in-archive-index-1.patch)
> >on Solaris8.
> >Now the date and time show up against every msg in pipermail archives.
> >
> >However, the date and time in pipermail is in GMT.
> >The same mail I receive in my mail reader in PST.
> >
> >Is there some place I can update the pipermail timezone to PST?
>
>
> The patch you installed added the following four lines around line 1035
> in Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py.
>
>         date = float(date)
>         date = time.gmtime(date)
>         date = time.strftime("%b %d %Y - %H:%M:%S",date)
>         date = CGIescape(date, self.lang)
>
> If you change
>
>         date = time.gmtime(date)
> to
>         date = time.localtime(date)
>
> you'll get local time.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From ostrowb at tblc.org  Mon Dec 19 20:38:33 2005
From: ostrowb at tblc.org (Ben Ostrowsky)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 14:38:33 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounces are going to my old mail server
Message-ID: <001601c604d3$cbe7e260$08888040@tblc.local>

I've created a mailing list called bentest.  My bounce messages are going to
bentest-bounces at snoopy.tblc.org, but I don't remember telling this new
mailman server about a host named "snoopy".  I did copy the list data over
from snoopy (which is our general email server, but not our mailing list
server).

Several mailing lists' config.* files contain the string 'snoopy', but
bentest's config.* files do not, so I think I can rule that out.

What's going on here, and how can I fix it?

Ben




From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec 19 20:43:19 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 11:43:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Next step, Announce Only
In-Reply-To: <p06230909bfccb3eb2619@[128.148.108.69]>
Message-ID: <PC17402005121911431908907f36c7cd@msapiro>

Julia Frizzell wrote:
>
>But it's still not working. I'm afraid that I'm getting confused with 
>the wording in the FAQ above. The new file is located in 
>/private/var/mailman/lists/<listname>/en/templates/subscribeack.txt. 
>Is this the proper location?


No. The proper location in your case is
/private/var/mailman/lists/<listname>/en/subscribeack.txt


Note that in Mailman 2.1.6 and later, you can edit this template via
the web admin interface via the 'Edit the public HTML pages and text
files' link.

Also see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>
for more detailed info about where edited templates go.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From elvisfern at gmail.com  Mon Dec 19 20:47:43 2005
From: elvisfern at gmail.com (Elvis Fernandes)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 11:47:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive browsing question
Message-ID: <5b1c0dc50512191147g5745546ayadcc193ce65b35d0@mail.gmail.com>

>From a web browser, non-members of a mail list can browse the archives.
Is this a correct statement?

For example, if I am NOT a member of mail-list, I can still go to
http://mailman/pipermail/mail-list
and browse the archives.

Now, there must be a way to block non-members to browse the archives of
mail-list

In todays security world there sure must be a way. I would like to know
others experiences.

Thanks
Elvis


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec 19 20:50:08 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 11:50:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounces are going to my old mail server
In-Reply-To: <001601c604d3$cbe7e260$08888040@tblc.local>
Message-ID: <PC17402005121911500804379ff9e2fd@msapiro>

Ben Ostrowsky wrote:

>I've created a mailing list called bentest.  My bounce messages are going to
>bentest-bounces at snoopy.tblc.org, but I don't remember telling this new
>mailman server about a host named "snoopy".  I did copy the list data over
>from snoopy (which is our general email server, but not our mailing list
>server).
>
>Several mailing lists' config.* files contain the string 'snoopy', but
>bentest's config.* files do not, so I think I can rule that out.
>
>What's going on here, and how can I fix it?


One of two things. Assuming DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST is not 'snoopy.tblc.org'
either the host name part of the web_page_url attribute of the bentest
list when looked up in the VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary (add_virtualhost)
returns 'snoopy.tblc.org' or your outgoing MTA is changing the domain
for the outside world.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec 19 20:59:19 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 11:59:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive browsing question
In-Reply-To: <5b1c0dc50512191147g5745546ayadcc193ce65b35d0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005121911591908758bb6e53e@msapiro>

Elvis Fernandes wrote:

>>From a web browser, non-members of a mail list can browse the archives.
>Is this a correct statement?


Only if the archives are public.


>Now, there must be a way to block non-members to browse the archives of
>mail-list


Make the archive private on the list's Archiving Options page. This
will remove the symlinks from the archives/public/ directory and force
archive access to be via http://example.com/mailman/private. The links
on admin and listinfo pages will use the private url, so everything
will work except perhaps for old links that people have saved or
posted in messages.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jdennis at redhat.com  Mon Dec 19 21:09:35 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 15:09:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive browsing question
In-Reply-To: <5b1c0dc50512191147g5745546ayadcc193ce65b35d0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5b1c0dc50512191147g5745546ayadcc193ce65b35d0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1135022975.15561.7.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Mon, 2005-12-19 at 11:47 -0800, Elvis Fernandes wrote:
> >From a web browser, non-members of a mail list can browse the archives.
> Is this a correct statement?
> 
> For example, if I am NOT a member of mail-list, I can still go to
> http://mailman/pipermail/mail-list
> and browse the archives.
> 
> Now, there must be a way to block non-members to browse the archives of
> mail-list
> 
> In todays security world there sure must be a way. I would like to know
> others experiences.

Some lists are appropriate for public consumption, some are not. That is
why mailman supports both public and private archives, it is a per list
configuration.

However please note, the security protection on the private archives is
not terribly strong, it requires only a username/password, something
which by default is mailed in the clear once a month. Security in
general was not a prime design point for mailman, a limitation which is
recognized and hopefully will be better addressed in MM 3.0. If you have
very sensitive information in your archives you may want to consider an
alternate solution.
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From elvisfern at gmail.com  Mon Dec 19 21:20:35 2005
From: elvisfern at gmail.com (Elvis Fernandes)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 12:20:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive browsing question
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005121911591908758bb6e53e@msapiro>
References: <5b1c0dc50512191147g5745546ayadcc193ce65b35d0@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402005121911591908758bb6e53e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <5b1c0dc50512191220sc2a601do26e1797b38c8911e@mail.gmail.com>

Making the archives private with a username / passwd access will be okay to
start with.

> Make the archive private on the list's Archiving Options page. This
> will remove the symlinks from the archives/public/ directory

I see that the links are removed.

> and force archive access to be via http://example.com/mailman/private

That works!

Thanks
Elvis


>


On 12/19/05, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Elvis Fernandes wrote:
>
> >>From a web browser, non-members of a mail list can browse the archives.
> >Is this a correct statement?
>
>
> Only if the archives are public.
>
>
> >Now, there must be a way to block non-members to browse the archives of
> >mail-list
>
>
> Make the archive private on the list's Archiving Options page. This
> will remove the symlinks from the archives/public/ directory and force
> archive access to be via http://example.com/mailman/private. The links
> on admin and listinfo pages will use the private url, so everything
> will work except perhaps for old links that people have saved or
> posted in messages.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From elvisfern at gmail.com  Mon Dec 19 21:41:07 2005
From: elvisfern at gmail.com (Elvis Fernandes)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 12:41:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive browsing question
In-Reply-To: <5b1c0dc50512191220sc2a601do26e1797b38c8911e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5b1c0dc50512191147g5745546ayadcc193ce65b35d0@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402005121911591908758bb6e53e@msapiro>
	<5b1c0dc50512191220sc2a601do26e1797b38c8911e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5b1c0dc50512191241o6d5a069dkf2c1c27ce2a19a8d@mail.gmail.com>

I guess I spoke too early!

When I go to http://example.com/mailman/private/mail-list , the screen
displays "The mail-list Archives".
But when I click on [thread] [Subject] [Author] [Date], it comes back with
the screen "No such list 2005-december"

Am I missing something?

Any info will be appreciated.

Thanks
Elvis

On 12/19/05, Elvis Fernandes <elvisfern at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Making the archives private with a username / passwd access will be okay
> to start with.
>
> > Make the archive private on the list's Archiving Options page. This
> > will remove the symlinks from the archives/public/ directory
>
> I see that the links are removed.
>
> > and force archive access to be via http://example.com/mailman/private
>
> That works!
>
> Thanks
> Elvis
>
>
> >
>
>
> On 12/19/05, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> >
> > Elvis Fernandes wrote:
> >
> > >>From a web browser, non-members of a mail list can browse the
> > archives.
> > >Is this a correct statement?
> >
> >
> > Only if the archives are public.
> >
> >
> > >Now, there must be a way to block non-members to browse the archives of
> >
> > >mail-list
> >
> >
> > Make the archive private on the list's Archiving Options page. This
> > will remove the symlinks from the archives/public/ directory and force
> > archive access to be via http://example.com/mailman/private. The links
> > on admin and listinfo pages will use the private url, so everything
> > will work except perhaps for old links that people have saved or
> > posted in messages.
> >
> > --
> > Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> > San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> >
> >
>


From ostrowb at tblc.org  Mon Dec 19 21:55:15 2005
From: ostrowb at tblc.org (Ben Ostrowsky)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 15:55:15 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounces are going to my old mail server
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005121911500804379ff9e2fd@msapiro>
Message-ID: <001801c604de$82eb3020$08888040@tblc.local>

> One of two things. Assuming DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST is not 
> 'snoopy.tblc.org'

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST was 'mail.tblc.org' but I've changed it to
'lists.tblc.org' and done 'mailman reload'.  Still seems to do the same
thing.

> either the host name part of the web_page_url attribute of the bentest 
> list when looked up in the VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary (add_virtualhost) 
> returns 'snoopy.tblc.org'

How could I test for this possibility?

> or your outgoing MTA is changing the domain for the outside world.

Well, if I just email my Gmail account from the command line, it appears to
come from root at www2.tblc.org, but the "Your mail is being held" headers have
loads of domains: lists.tblc.org, www2.tblc.org, snoopy.tblc.org,
mail.tblc.org... Here are the headers:
 

X-Gmail-Received: 4c3136d801db9219ade6e8b8ce914c41308c83c3
Delivered-To: sylvar at gmail.com
Received: by 10.65.251.18 with SMTP id d18cs78529qbs;
        Mon, 19 Dec 2005 11:47:08 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.54.122.15 with SMTP id u15mr29842wrc;
        Mon, 19 Dec 2005 11:47:08 -0800 (PST)
Return-Path: <bentest-bounces at snoopy.tblc.org>
Received: from www2.tblc.org (lists.tblc.org [64.128.136.9])
        by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 28si11281093wrl.2005.12.19.11.47.08;
        Mon, 19 Dec 2005 11:47:08 -0800 (PST)
Received-SPF: fail (gmail.com: domain of bentest-bounces at snoopy.tblc.org
does not designate 64.128.136.9 as permitted sender)
Received: from lists.tblc.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1])
	by www2.tblc.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jBJJl7a6006599
	for <sylvar at gmail.com>; Mon, 19 Dec 2005 14:47:07 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: Your message to Bentest awaits moderator approval
From: bentest-bounces at snoopy.tblc.org
To: sylvar at gmail.com
Message-ID: <mailman.12.1135021627.5670.bentest at mail.tblc.org>
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 14:47:07 -0500
Precedence: bulk
X-BeenThere: bentest at mail.tblc.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
List-Id: bentest.mail.tblc.org
X-List-Administrivia: yes
Sender: bentest-bounces at snoopy.tblc.org
Errors-To: bentest-bounces at snoopy.tblc.org




From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec 19 22:01:56 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 13:01:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive browsing question
In-Reply-To: <5b1c0dc50512191241o6d5a069dkf2c1c27ce2a19a8d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512191301560531becc480b@msapiro>

Elvis Fernandes wrote:
>
>I guess I spoke too early!
>
>When I go to http://example.com/mailman/private/mail-list , the screen
>displays "The mail-list Archives".
>But when I click on [thread] [Subject] [Author] [Date], it comes back with
>the screen "No such list 2005-december"


Try going to http://example.com/mailman/private/mail-list/

If the URL doesn't end in a slash, the browser will think the relative
link in the archives is relative to the previous slash.

Where did the http://example.com/mailman/private/mail-list URL come
from? Was this a link on a Mailman page or did you just type it?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ostrowb at tblc.org  Mon Dec 19 22:02:15 2005
From: ostrowb at tblc.org (Ben Ostrowsky)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 16:02:15 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounces are going to my old mail server
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200512191255510796becc490f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <001901c604df$7dce0670$08888040@tblc.local>

> The domain in the -bounces and other addresses comes directly 
> from the list's host_name attribute which is visible on the 
> list's General Options page

OK, I found that; is there an easy way to change that to lists.tblc.org for
all existing lists?

Ben




From ostrowb at tblc.org  Mon Dec 19 22:07:05 2005
From: ostrowb at tblc.org (Ben Ostrowsky)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 16:07:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounces are going to my old mail server
Message-ID: <001d01c604e0$2a2c9cb0$08888040@tblc.local>

> OK, I found that; is there an easy way to change that to 
> lists.tblc.org for all existing lists?

Hey, dummy, (he said to himself), this one's in the FAQ!

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=all#4.38

Ben




From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec 19 22:10:23 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 13:10:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounces are going to my old mail server
In-Reply-To: <001901c604df$7dce0670$08888040@tblc.local>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512191310230296f74e3fbf@msapiro>

Ben Ostrowsky wrote:

>> The domain in the -bounces and other addresses comes directly 
>> from the list's host_name attribute which is visible on the 
>> list's General Options page
>
>OK, I found that; is there an easy way to change that to lists.tblc.org for
>all existing lists?

Run

bin/fix_url.py

for instructions on how to actually run it under bin/withlist.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From elvisfern at gmail.com  Mon Dec 19 22:09:24 2005
From: elvisfern at gmail.com (Elvis Fernandes)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 13:09:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive browsing question
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200512191301560531becc480b@msapiro>
References: <5b1c0dc50512191241o6d5a069dkf2c1c27ce2a19a8d@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200512191301560531becc480b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <5b1c0dc50512191309y60d02440q61257d6826b44cbc@mail.gmail.com>

Okay, going to http://example.com/mailman/private/mail-list/   does work.

> Where did the http://example.com/mailman/private/mail-list URL come
> from? Was this a link on a Mailman page or did you just type it?

I typed it. When I go to http://example.com/mailman/private the screen tells
me  "You must specify a list". So I specified mail-list. Now I know that the
trailing / needs to be there.

Thanks!
Elvis

On 12/19/05, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Elvis Fernandes wrote:
> >
> >I guess I spoke too early!
> >
> >When I go to http://example.com/mailman/private/mail-list , the screen
> >displays "The mail-list Archives".
> >But when I click on [thread] [Subject] [Author] [Date], it comes back
> with
> >the screen "No such list 2005-december"
>
>
> Try going to http://example.com/mailman/private/mail-list/
>
> If the URL doesn't end in a slash, the browser will think the relative
> link in the archives is relative to the previous slash.
>
> Where did the http://example.com/mailman/private/mail-list URL come
> from? Was this a link on a Mailman page or did you just type it?
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From dave at dpss.bz  Tue Dec 20 01:57:45 2005
From: dave at dpss.bz (Dave B)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 18:57:45 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce disable messages even when getting mail
Message-ID: <a68d7d6cf36996b62eee4a31bea29626@dpss.bz>

I keep getting messages that my account has been disabled due to 
excessive bounces even though I am getting the email. I am both a user 
on the list and the administrator. Mailman is running on a Mac OS X 
Server 10.3.9 Mailman version 2.1.4. I will go in and re-enable 
delivery and set it globally and then six days later I get the disable 
message again. As far as I can tell, I am getting all messages until 
the account is disabled. Anybody have any ideas on what might be 
causing this?

Thanks - Dave Bevis



From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Tue Dec 20 04:27:32 2005
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 12:27:32 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Released: Mailman 2.1.7b1
Message-ID: <43A77A24.7000309@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Hi all,

I've just released Mailman 2.1.7b1 for beta test and i18n translations.
 I'm tempted to jump into RC because the 2.1-maint branch is so stable
and 2.1.7 is mainly for bug fixes, but we need more translations before
the final release.  Please download it from SF or:
 http://mm.tkikuchi.net/mailman-2.1.7b1.tgz

Cheers,

Tokio
-------------------------------------------------------
Here is a history of user visible changes to Mailman.

2.1.7b1 (20-Dec-2005)

  Security

    - The fix for CAN-2005-0202 has been enhanced to issue an appropriate
      message instead of just quietly dropping ./ and ../ from URLs.

    - A note on CVE-2005-3573: Although the RFC2231 bug example in the
      CVE has been solved in mailman-2.1.6, there may be more cases
      where ToDigest.send_digests() can block regular delivery.
      We put the send_digests() calling part in try - except clause and
      leave a message in the error log if something happened in
      send_digests().  Daily call of cron/senddigests will notify more
      detail to the site administrator.

    - List administrators can no longer change the user's
option/subscription
      globally.  Site admin can change these only if
      mm_cfg.ALLOW_SITE_ADMIN_COOKIES is set to Yes.

    - Script tag is disallowd in edithtml script.

    - Since probe message for the disabled users may reach unexpected
      persons, the password was excluded from sendProbe() and probe.txt.
      Note that the default value of VERP_PROBE has been set to `No'
      from 2.1.6., thus this change doesn't change the default behavior.

  New Features

    - Always remove DomainKey (and similar) headers (1287546) from messages
      sent to the list.

    - List owners can customize content filter behavior as not to collapse
      multipart/alternative to its first content.  This allows HTML part
      to pass through after other content filtering is done.

  Internationalization

    - New language: Interlingua.

  Bug fixes and other patches

    - Fix Scrubber.py mungs quoted-printable bug with introducing
      'X-Mailman-Scrubbed' header for marking that the payload is
      scrubber-munged.  The flag is referenced in ToDigest.py, ToArchive.py,
      Decorate.py and Archiver.  Similar problem in ToDigest.py where the
      plain digest is generated is also fixed.

    - Fix Syslog.py to write quopri encoded message when it fail to write
      8-bit characters.

    - Fix MTA/Postfix.py to check aliases group permission in check_perms
      and fix mailman-install document on this matter (1378270).

    - Fix private.py to go to the original URL after authorization
(1080943).

    - Fix bounce log score messages to be more consistent.

    - Fix bin/remove_members to accept no arguments when both --fromall and
      --file= options are specified.

    - Change cgi-bin and mail wrapper "group not found" error message to be
      more descriptive of the actual problem.

    - Apply the list's ban_list to address changes and admin mass subscribe
      and invite and to confirmations/approvals of address changes,
      subscriptions and invitations.

    - Decode quoted-printable and base64 encoded parts before passing to
      HTML_TO_PLAIN_TEXT_COMMAND (1367783).

    - Remove Approve: header from post - treat as Approved: (1355707).

    - Stop removing line following Approve(d): line in body of post
(1318883).

    - Log post in post log with true sender, not listname-bounces (1287921).

    - Correctly initialize and remember the list's default_member_moderation
      attribute in the web list creation page (1263213).

    - Add PEP263 charset in config_list output (1343100).

    - header_filter_rules get lost if accessed directly and needed authenti-
      cation by login page (1230865).

    - Obscure email when the poster doesn't set full name in 'From:' header.

    - Take preambles and epilogues into account when calculating message
sizes
      for holding purposes (Mark Sapiro).

    - Logging/Logger.py unicode transform option (1235567).

    - bin/update crashes with bogus files (949117).

    - Bugs and patches: 1212066/1301983 (Date header in create/remove
notice)



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Dec 20 08:21:09 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 23:21:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce disable messages even when getting mail
In-Reply-To: <a68d7d6cf36996b62eee4a31bea29626@dpss.bz>
Message-ID: <PC174020051219232109093746759fb2@msapiro>

Dave B wrote:

>I keep getting messages that my account has been disabled due to 
>excessive bounces even though I am getting the email. I am both a user 
>on the list and the administrator. Mailman is running on a Mac OS X 
>Server 10.3.9 Mailman version 2.1.4. I will go in and re-enable 
>delivery and set it globally and then six days later I get the disable 
>message again. As far as I can tell, I am getting all messages until 
>the account is disabled. Anybody have any ideas on what might be 
>causing this?

Have you looked in the bounce log to see if bounces are being recorded
for your address?

Do you have the list's bounce_notify_owner_on_disable set to yes, and
if so does the owner receive a disable notification with a copy of the
triggering bounce?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From he at reclaimedcomputers.ca  Tue Dec 20 07:23:29 2005
From: he at reclaimedcomputers.ca (Hugh Esco)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 22:23:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] confusing permission errors, help please
Message-ID: <20051219222329.4ae74e7b.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>

I might need to do several instances of mailman before the new year, sailed right through my first install, but got stuck on the second one.  I'm seeking advice on how to build this.  Apparently I will need a distinct instance for each virtual host of the $prefix heirarchy.  I'm wondering though if I can have only a single copy of the installation directory which is created from unpacking the tar ball.   

Also, I'm creating a unique vhost specific user for each instance of mailman.  Is this overkill?  Can a single mailman user support multiple vhosts?  

At any rate, to the error at hand:  

At:  http://mumble.example.ca/mailman/listinfo
Browser reports error as:  
Forbidden

You don't have permission to access /mailman/listinfo on this server.

Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.

/var/log/apache/mumble-error.log says:  
[Mon Dec 19 22:43:27 2005] [error] [client nn.nnn.nn.nnn] (13)Permission denied: access to /mailman/listinfo denied

permissions on directory and file are:  

drwxrwsr-x   2 mumble mumble  320 Dec 19 18:38 cgi-bin
-rwxr-sr-x  1 mumble mumble 36637 Dec 19 18:38 cgi-bin/listinfo

apache configuration (which works based on function of other aliases) includes: 
   ScriptAlias /mailman/ /u/m/mumble/mailman/cgi-bin/

OK.  I'm stumped.  

I would think that perhaps adding the apache user to the mumble group might do it, but /etc/group shows that the instance of mailman I put up two days ago (another virtual host on the same gentoo server), which works, did not require that intervention.  And I see that the permissions are 02755 on the script, so apache ought to be able to execute the script regardless.  

Any ideas how to make this error go away and for this installation to work?  All help is appreciated.  Thanks.  

-- Hugh 

--
RCK Computer Services 
http://reclaimedcomputers.ca/


From ostrowb at tblc.org  Tue Dec 20 14:56:22 2005
From: ostrowb at tblc.org (Ben Ostrowsky)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 08:56:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Where's my mail?
Message-ID: <00b301c6056d$28f31030$08888040@tblc.local>

I sent mail to suntalk at lists.tblc.org a few minutes ago, but it hasn't
appeared on the list, it's not in the archives, and I haven't gotten any
error messages, either.  And I've tried mailq | grep suntalk, but it returns
null.  How should I troubleshoot this problem?

Ben




From smielke at famsi.org  Tue Dec 20 15:17:24 2005
From: smielke at famsi.org (smielke at famsi.org)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 09:17:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help file
Message-ID: <003b01c60570$19deddb0$2901a8c0@famsi12>

I've read in the Mailman FAQ that there is a help file that you can retrieve 
by requesting through email.  Does this have to be set up separately?  I've 
sent mail to the request address, with help in the subject line, but I do 
not receive any mail with the help instructions in them.  Did I 
misunderstand something?

Thanks in advance,
Sandy 



From smielke at famsi.org  Tue Dec 20 15:48:00 2005
From: smielke at famsi.org (smielke at famsi.org)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 09:48:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] current moderator in a perl command
Message-ID: <004b01c60574$5fba54f0$2901a8c0@famsi12>

Is there a way to retrieve the current moderator through a perl command?


From m.cave-ayland at webbased.co.uk  Tue Dec 20 16:03:16 2005
From: m.cave-ayland at webbased.co.uk (Mark Cave-Ayland)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 15:03:16 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error when accessing Mailman CGI web interface
Message-ID: <200512201502.jBKF2S401870@webbased16.localdomain>

Hi everyone,

I'm trying to install a fresh copy of mailman 2.1.6 on a FC3 machine with
SELinux disabled, and running into a problem trying to access the web
interface. My configure statement looks like this:

./configure \
        --prefix=/home/mailman/domains/chuckie.co.uk \
        --with-username=mailman \
        --with-groupname=mailman \
        --with-cgi-gid=apache

I then do a "make install" followed by bin/check_perms -f as noted in the
manual. However when I try and access the administration URL at
http://server/mailman/admin then I get the following error in the Apache
error log:

[Tue Dec 20 14:23:00 2005] [error] [client 213.152.63.90] /usr/bin/python:
can't open file '/home/mailman/domains/chuckie.co.uk/scripts/driver'
[Tue Dec 20 14:23:00 2005] [error] [client 213.152.63.90] Premature end of
script headers: admin

What is strange is that I also get the same error if do this:

su - apache
cd ~/domains/chuckie.co.uk/cgi-bin
admin

But the following appears to work as expected, outputting a CGI error:

su - apache
/usr/bin/python /home/mailman/domains/chuckie.co.uk/scripts/driver


Any help would be greatly appreciated.


Many thanks,

Mark.

------------------------
WebBased Ltd
17 Research Way
Plymouth
PL6 8BT

T: +44 (0)1752 797131
F: +44 (0)1752 791023

http://www.webbased.co.uk   
http://www.infomapper.com
http://www.swtc.co.uk  

This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient
and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please
delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or
use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other
person.





From msapiro at value.net  Tue Dec 20 16:28:29 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 07:28:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] current moderator in a perl command
In-Reply-To: <004b01c60574$5fba54f0$2901a8c0@famsi12>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512200728290421a3cbe8e2@msapiro>

<smielke at famsi.org> wrote:

>Is there a way to retrieve the current moderator through a perl command?

If the perl script has permission to execute bin/* scripts, it could
parse the output from bin/config_list or use bin/list_owners. The
latter with the -m option will list owners and moderators for a list,
but doesn't distinguish between them.

You could also modify (and simplify) bin/list_owners to make a new
script that lists only moderators.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Dec 20 16:36:16 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 07:36:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help file
In-Reply-To: <003b01c60570$19deddb0$2901a8c0@famsi12>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512200736160046e3cb869e@msapiro>

smielke at famsi.org wrote:

>I've read in the Mailman FAQ that there is a help file that you can retrieve 
>by requesting through email.  Does this have to be set up separately?  I've 
>sent mail to the request address, with help in the subject line, but I do 
>not receive any mail with the help instructions in them.  Did I 
>misunderstand something?

I don't know if you misunderstood or not. Did you get any reply?

You don't have to set anything up for this to work. Do other mails to
the list-request address work? Any mail to the list request address
should produce a 'results of your email commands' return email.

The RFC 2369 List-Help: header contains a mailto URI that should work.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Dec 20 16:39:56 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 07:39:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Where's my mail?
In-Reply-To: <00b301c6056d$28f31030$08888040@tblc.local>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512200739560859e3cb89f3@msapiro>

Ben Ostrowsky wrote:

>I sent mail to suntalk at lists.tblc.org a few minutes ago, but it hasn't
>appeared on the list, it's not in the archives, and I haven't gotten any
>error messages, either.  And I've tried mailq | grep suntalk, but it returns
>null.  How should I troubleshoot this problem?

Check the MTA log to see where the mail was delivered.

Are the qrunners running?

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ostrowb at tblc.org  Tue Dec 20 17:05:43 2005
From: ostrowb at tblc.org (Ben Ostrowsky)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 11:05:43 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Where's my mail?
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200512200739560859e3cb89f3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <010301c6057f$3b2788f0$08888040@tblc.local>

> See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>.

Thanks -- it seems that the problem here is not actually with Mailman, as I
can post to lists as long as I'm not in the building.  I think I have to
configure my main mail server, since in-house PCs deliver all their mail to
mail.tblc.org (but machines outside the network have their own MTAs which
sensibly deliver directly to lists.tblc.org as per the MX record).

I've got mail.tblc.org set up to forward list mail, I think; /etc/aliases on
the main mail server looks like this (for each list):

youth: youth at lists.tblc.org
youth-admin: youth-admin at lists.tblc.org
youth-bounces: youth-bounces at lists.tblc.org
youth-confirm: youth-confirm at lists.tblc.org
youth-join: youth-join at lists.tblc.org
youth-leave: youth-leave at lists.tblc.org
youth-owner: youth-owner at lists.tblc.org
youth-request: youth-request at lists.tblc.org
youth-subscribe: youth-subscribe at lists.tblc.org
youth-unsubscribe: youth-unsubscribe at lists.tblc.org

And I've run 'newaliases' already.

So now I'm off to troubleshoot Postfix on the main mail server...

Thanks again!
Ben




From msapiro at value.net  Tue Dec 20 17:07:33 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 08:07:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error when accessing Mailman CGI web interface
In-Reply-To: <200512201502.jBKF2S401870@webbased16.localdomain>
Message-ID: <PC174020051220080733062599973752@msapiro>

Mark Cave-Ayland wrote:

>However when I try and access the administration URL at
>http://server/mailman/admin then I get the following error in the Apache
>error log:
>
>[Tue Dec 20 14:23:00 2005] [error] [client 213.152.63.90] /usr/bin/python:
>can't open file '/home/mailman/domains/chuckie.co.uk/scripts/driver'
>[Tue Dec 20 14:23:00 2005] [error] [client 213.152.63.90] Premature end of
>script headers: admin
>
>What is strange is that I also get the same error if do this:
>
>su - apache
>cd ~/domains/chuckie.co.uk/cgi-bin
>admin
>
>But the following appears to work as expected, outputting a CGI error:
>
>su - apache
>/usr/bin/python /home/mailman/domains/chuckie.co.uk/scripts/driver

What happens if you do the above with "su - mailman" instead of apache.
At this point, the wrapper is invoking the driver as group mailman
because it is SETGID.

Are you sure SELinux is disabled?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mistertime at gmail.com  Tue Dec 20 17:01:46 2005
From: mistertime at gmail.com (Mister Time)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 18:01:46 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] removing a post before digest
Message-ID: <c1df09680512200801v373bb1a4q23ea91f03e27f0e6@mail.gmail.com>

Hi.
is there a simple method that I can remove a post before a digest is
triggered and not having it appear on the archives?
Can this be done from the admin interface?

also, is there a way to stop a digest from being released until I do this?

Thanks!


From m.cave-ayland at webbased.co.uk  Tue Dec 20 17:21:47 2005
From: m.cave-ayland at webbased.co.uk (Mark Cave-Ayland)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 16:21:47 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error when accessing Mailman CGI web interface
In-Reply-To: <PC174020051220080733062599973752@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200512201620.jBKGKx404181@webbased16.localdomain>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net]
> Sent: 20 December 2005 16:08
> To: Mark Cave-Ayland; mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Error when accessing Mailman CGI web
> interface

(cut)

> What happens if you do the above with "su - mailman" instead of apache.
> At this point, the wrapper is invoking the driver as group mailman
> because it is SETGID.
> 
> Are you sure SELinux is disabled?


Hi Mark,

The "su - mailman" version works without any problems, e.g.

su - mailman
cd ~/domains/chuckie.co.uk/cgi-bin
./admin

Content-type: text/html

<head>
<title>Mailman CGI error!!!</title>
</head><body>
<h1>Mailman CGI error!!!</h1>
The Mailman CGI wrapper encountered a fatal error. This entry is being
stored in your syslog:
<pre>
Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the CGI
wrapper script to be executed as group "apache", but
the system's web server executed the CGI script as
group "mailman".  Try tweaking the web server to run the
script as group "apache", or re-run configure,
providing the command line option `--with-cgi-gid=mailman'.</pre>


According to /etc/selinux/config:

SELINUX=disabled
SELINUXTYPE=targeted


Looking at the mailman source, I guess that somehow the execve() call is
failing but I'm not sure exactly where to start digging...


Many thanks,

Mark.

------------------------
WebBased Ltd
17 Research Way
Plymouth
PL6 8BT

T: +44 (0)1752 797131
F: +44 (0)1752 791023

http://www.webbased.co.uk   
http://www.infomapper.com
http://www.swtc.co.uk  

This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient
and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please
delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or
use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other
person.




From msapiro at value.net  Tue Dec 20 17:31:47 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 08:31:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] confusing permission errors, help please
In-Reply-To: <20051219222329.4ae74e7b.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512200831470640abb5310f@msapiro>

Hugh Esco wrote:

>I might need to do several instances of mailman before the new year, sailed right through my first install, but got stuck on the second one.  I'm seeking advice on how to build this.  Apparently I will need a distinct instance for each virtual host of the $prefix heirarchy.  I'm wondering though if I can have only a single copy of the installation directory which is created from unpacking the tar ball.   


I'm not sure what you're saying. Yes, you can unpack the tarball only
once into one source directory, but then for each mailman instance
you'll have to run configure in that directory with completely
separate --prefix (and --exec-prefix and --with-var-prefix if used)
values followed by "make install: for that instance.


>Also, I'm creating a unique vhost specific user for each instance of mailman.  Is this overkill?  Can a single mailman user support multiple vhosts?  


Yes. One mailman instance can support multiple vhosts. The restriction
is that since a single mailman instance has only one 'namespace' for
listnames, you can't have the same list name on two different vhosts
supported by the same mailman instance.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.047.htp>


>At any rate, to the error at hand:  
>
>At:  http://mumble.example.ca/mailman/listinfo
>Browser reports error as:  
>Forbidden
>
>You don't have permission to access /mailman/listinfo on this server.
>
>Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
>
>/var/log/apache/mumble-error.log says:  
>[Mon Dec 19 22:43:27 2005] [error] [client nn.nnn.nn.nnn] (13)Permission denied: access to /mailman/listinfo denied
>
>permissions on directory and file are:  
>
>drwxrwsr-x   2 mumble mumble  320 Dec 19 18:38 cgi-bin
>-rwxr-sr-x  1 mumble mumble 36637 Dec 19 18:38 cgi-bin/listinfo
>
>apache configuration (which works based on function of other aliases) includes: 
>   ScriptAlias /mailman/ /u/m/mumble/mailman/cgi-bin/
>
>OK.  I'm stumped.  


Have you run /u/m/mumble/mailman/bin/check_perms?


>I would think that perhaps adding the apache user to the mumble group might do it, but /etc/group shows that the instance of mailman I put up two days ago (another virtual host on the same gentoo server), which works, did not require that intervention.  And I see that the permissions are 02755 on the script, so apache ought to be able to execute the script regardless.  
>


I agree.

Do you perhaps have something in your Apache config that directly or
indirectly removed the ExecCGI option from the
/u/m/mumble/mailman/cgi-bin/ directory?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From josh at pha.jhu.edu  Tue Dec 20 17:19:41 2005
From: josh at pha.jhu.edu (Josh Greenberg)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 11:19:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with archiving
Message-ID: <43A82F1D.4020709@pha.jhu.edu>

I have just recently installed mailman and I am trying to get the 
archiving feature to work. I have gone into the archiving settings on 
two different test lists that I set up and told them both to do 
archiving. I set one to public and one to private, just to see how each 
one reacted. So far, not one message that I've sent to the list has been 
archived.

I followed the setup instructions for getting the archiving to work but 
I think I must have missed something. I also found something in the FAQ 
that I added to the httpd.conf file but it still doesn't work.

At first I think it was a permissions problem but I think I fixed that. 
Originally, the public directory was owned by root:other and the private 
was owned by nobody:nobody (the user/group that runs apache). I left the 
private alone and chown'd the public dir to mailman:mailman. In the 
httpd.conf file, I have the following lines:

ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/path/to/mailman/cgi-bin/"
Alias /pipermail/ "/path/to/mailman/archives/public/"
<Directory "/path/to/mailman/archives/public/">
        AddDefaultCharset Off
        Options FollowSymLinks
</Directory>

Does this seem correct? Am I missing something? Thanks.

Josh


From jdennis at redhat.com  Tue Dec 20 17:32:07 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 11:32:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error when accessing Mailman CGI web interface
In-Reply-To: <200512201620.jBKGKx404181@webbased16.localdomain>
References: <200512201620.jBKGKx404181@webbased16.localdomain>
Message-ID: <1135096327.17343.4.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

what does 

ls -l /home/mailman/domains/chuckie.co.uk/scripts/driver

say?

what does

/usr/sbin/getenforce

say?


-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Dec 20 17:37:40 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 08:37:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error when accessing Mailman CGI web interface
In-Reply-To: <200512201620.jBKGKx404181@webbased16.localdomain>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512200837400750aa5072f6@msapiro>

Mark Cave-Ayland wrote:
>
>The "su - mailman" version works without any problems, e.g.
>
>su - mailman
>cd ~/domains/chuckie.co.uk/cgi-bin
>./admin

I meant try

su - mailman
/usr/bin/python /home/mailman/domains/chuckie.co.uk/scripts/driver

(or perhaps)

/usr/bin/python /home/mailman/domains/chuckie.co.uk/scripts/driver admin

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From m.cave-ayland at webbased.co.uk  Tue Dec 20 17:42:08 2005
From: m.cave-ayland at webbased.co.uk (Mark Cave-Ayland)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 16:42:08 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error when accessing Mailman CGI web interface
In-Reply-To: <1135096327.17343.4.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
Message-ID: <200512201641.jBKGfL404810@webbased16.localdomain>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Dennis [mailto:jdennis at redhat.com]
> Sent: 20 December 2005 16:32
> To: Mark Cave-Ayland
> Cc: 'Mark Sapiro'; mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Error when accessing Mailman CGI web
> interface
> 
> what does
> 
> ls -l /home/mailman/domains/chuckie.co.uk/scripts/driver
> 
> say?
> 
> what does
> 
> /usr/sbin/getenforce
> 
> say?


Hi John,

Thanks for your help. This is what I get from the two commands above:

$ ls -l /home/mailman/domains/chuckie.co.uk/scripts/driver
-rw-r--r--  1 mailman mailman 9736 Dec 20 14:20
/home/mailman/domains/chuckie.co.uk/scripts/driver

$ /usr/sbin/getenforce
Disabled


Many thanks,

Mark.

------------------------
WebBased Ltd
17 Research Way
Plymouth
PL6 8BT

T: +44 (0)1752 797131
F: +44 (0)1752 791023

http://www.webbased.co.uk   
http://www.infomapper.com
http://www.swtc.co.uk  

This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient
and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please
delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or
use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other
person.




From msapiro at value.net  Tue Dec 20 17:48:34 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 08:48:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] removing a post before digest
In-Reply-To: <c1df09680512200801v373bb1a4q23ea91f03e27f0e6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005122008483404847cc7fbe6@msapiro>

Mister Time wrote:

>is there a simple method that I can remove a post before a digest is
>triggered and not having it appear on the archives?


It's already in the archives by the time you see it. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.003.htp>
for info about removal.

You can edit the lists/list_name/digest.mbox file before the digest is
produced and remove the post. This will keep it out of the digest.

To do this safely, first stop mailman (bin/mailmanctl stop), then edit
digest.mbox, then start mailman. This will prevent additional posts
from being processed while you're editing and perhaps being lost from
the digest. It will also prevent a digest being triggered by size.

To prevent a periodic digest, remove the senddigests entry from
mailman's crontab.


>Can this be done from the admin interface?


No.


>also, is there a way to stop a digest from being released until I do this?


See above.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From m.cave-ayland at webbased.co.uk  Tue Dec 20 17:56:36 2005
From: m.cave-ayland at webbased.co.uk (Mark Cave-Ayland)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 16:56:36 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error when accessing Mailman CGI web interface
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200512200837400750aa5072f6@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200512201655.jBKGtm405207@webbased16.localdomain>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net]
> Sent: 20 December 2005 16:38
> To: Mark Cave-Ayland; mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Error when accessing Mailman CGI web
> interface

(cut)

> I meant try
> 
> su - mailman
> /usr/bin/python /home/mailman/domains/chuckie.co.uk/scripts/driver
> 
> (or perhaps)
> 
> /usr/bin/python /home/mailman/domains/chuckie.co.uk/scripts/driver admin


Hi Mark,

Sorry for the misunderstanding. Both of the "/usr/bin/python ..." lines
above work without any problems, using either the mailman user or the apache
user.


Many thanks,

Mark.

------------------------
WebBased Ltd
17 Research Way
Plymouth
PL6 8BT

T: +44 (0)1752 797131
F: +44 (0)1752 791023

http://www.webbased.co.uk   
http://www.infomapper.com
http://www.swtc.co.uk  

This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient
and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please
delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or
use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other
person.





From jdennis at redhat.com  Tue Dec 20 18:03:00 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 12:03:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error when accessing Mailman CGI web interface
In-Reply-To: <200512201641.jBKGfL404810@webbased16.localdomain>
References: <200512201641.jBKGfL404810@webbased16.localdomain>
Message-ID: <1135098180.17343.13.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Tue, 2005-12-20 at 16:42 +0000, Mark Cave-Ayland wrote:
> Thanks for your help. This is what I get from the two commands above:
> 
> $ ls -l /home/mailman/domains/chuckie.co.uk/scripts/driver
> -rw-r--r--  1 mailman mailman 9736 Dec 20 14:20
> /home/mailman/domains/chuckie.co.uk/scripts/driver
> 
> $ /usr/sbin/getenforce
> Disabled

Then I don't think I can help :-( Your original post said the you built
mailman with uid=gid=mailman and the wrapper seems to be executing
correctly based on a subsequent post. All looks good from here. Here is
the sequence that should be happening, see if you can find any reason
why its not:

apache invokes the cgi wrapper as the user 'apache', the cgi wrapper
verifies it was called by apache, then the wrapper does a setgid to
mailman and invokes the driver script, the driver script should be group
mailman, so it should have no problems reading the driver script, but
that is what is failing, go figure, seems like it should work.
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Dec 20 18:03:49 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 09:03:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with archiving
In-Reply-To: <43A82F1D.4020709@pha.jhu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC174020051220090349006229a0558f@msapiro>

Josh Greenberg wrote:
>
>At first I think it was a permissions problem but I think I fixed that. 
>Originally, the public directory was owned by root:other and the private 
>was owned by nobody:nobody (the user/group that runs apache). I left the 
>private alone and chown'd the public dir to mailman:mailman.


This is probably at least part of the problem. The private directory
must be group writable and group 'mailman'.


>In the 
>httpd.conf file, I have the following lines:
>
>ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/path/to/mailman/cgi-bin/"
>Alias /pipermail/ "/path/to/mailman/archives/public/"
><Directory "/path/to/mailman/archives/public/">
>        AddDefaultCharset Off
>        Options FollowSymLinks
></Directory>
>
>Does this seem correct?


Yes.


>Am I missing something? Thanks.


Can you go to either archive from the web and see the 'No messages have
been posted to this list yet' page?

Try running bin/check_perms to be sure the ownership/permissions are OK.
The 'mailman' group has to be able to write everywhere in the
archives/private structure.

Are messages being collected in
archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox?

Are the permissions = 02775 and group = 'mailman' on the
archives/private/listname.mbox/ directories?

Have you overridden any of the "Archive defaults" in mm_cfg.py?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Dec 20 18:09:13 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 09:09:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error when accessing Mailman CGI web interface
In-Reply-To: <200512201655.jBKGtm405207@webbased16.localdomain>
Message-ID: <PC17402005122009091305785dd2386f@msapiro>

Mark Cave-Ayland wrote:
>
>Sorry for the misunderstanding. Both of the "/usr/bin/python ..." lines
>above work without any problems, using either the mailman user or the apache
>user.

I know you said you rean check_perms, but verify that all the scripts
in cgi-bin/ are SETGID and group mailman.

BTW, does the listinfo page work?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From smielke at famsi.org  Tue Dec 20 19:13:12 2005
From: smielke at famsi.org (smielke at famsi.org)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 13:13:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can moderators add moderators?
Message-ID: <00ad01c60591$0a4ea1c0$2901a8c0@famsi12>

Is there a way that a moderator can change the current moderator?

For example, if I have 3 moderators and current moderator is going out of 
town, can the current moderator assign the moderator job to one of the other 
moderators?

Thanks,
S 



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Dec 20 19:48:02 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 10:48:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can moderators add moderators?
In-Reply-To: <00ad01c60591$0a4ea1c0$2901a8c0@famsi12>
Message-ID: <PC17402005122010480202505dd2371c@msapiro>

smielke at famsi.org wrote:

>Is there a way that a moderator can change the current moderator?
>
>For example, if I have 3 moderators and current moderator is going out of 
>town, can the current moderator assign the moderator job to one of the other 
>moderators?

If the moderator knows the list admin password, she can change
moderators. If she only knows the list moderator password, she can
only use the admindb interface for moderation, she can't use the admin
interface.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.060.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mistertime at gmail.com  Tue Dec 20 20:58:37 2005
From: mistertime at gmail.com (Mister Time)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 21:58:37 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] removing a post before digest
In-Reply-To: <c1df09680512200801v373bb1a4q23ea91f03e27f0e6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c1df09680512200801v373bb1a4q23ea91f03e27f0e6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c1df09680512201158j67d1cb32j297a297dbcaf2f66@mail.gmail.com>

does anyone know where mailman resides on a server after it has been created
by cpanel?

I have root access, but can not find it.

Thanks.


From smielke at famsi.org  Tue Dec 20 21:13:26 2005
From: smielke at famsi.org (smielke at famsi.org)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 15:13:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Topics & wildcards
Message-ID: <010201c605a1$d6348ec0$2901a8c0@famsi12>

Can any type of wildcards (*) be used in the topics Regexp: area?  I would 
like to add a topic to include all message that do not belong to a topic, 
how can I do this?

S 



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Dec 20 21:36:16 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 12:36:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Topics & wildcards
In-Reply-To: <010201c605a1$d6348ec0$2901a8c0@famsi12>
Message-ID: <PC174020051220123616078120978dfd@msapiro>

smielke at famsi.org wrote:

>Can any type of wildcards (*) be used in the topics Regexp: area?  I would 
>like to add a topic to include all message that do not belong to a topic, 
>how can I do this?

These are Python regexps. See
<http://docs.python.org/lib/re-syntax.html>.

But why do you want to do this? Users can already choose whether or not
to receive messages that don't match any topic.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jmooers at landmanninteractive.com  Tue Dec 20 21:20:45 2005
From: jmooers at landmanninteractive.com (Jess Mooers)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 14:20:45 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange Email
Message-ID: <r02010400-1039-1A70ABDD719611DA8195000A95845562@[66.170.10.196]>

I recently started receiving the following email:

====== Forwarded Message ======
Date: 12/20/05 1:45 PM
Received: 12/20/05 2:12 PM -0600
From: Cron Daemon <root at landmannassoc.com>
To: root at landmannassoc.com

/usr/bin/python: can't open file '/Applications/mailman/cron/gate_news'

====== End Forwarded Message ======


I understand why I am getting the message, as the path is invalid, but I have a few questions.

1. Where is the email generated?
2. Can I change the address it is sent to (my domain has changed)?
3. Where is the path defined as 'Applications/mailman/cron/gate_news' so I can change it?

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Jess Mooers
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
Landmann InterActive
1423 S. Park St., Madison, WI 53715
W 608-257-1558 F 608-257-8705
www.landmanninteractive.com


From he at reclaimedcomputers.ca  Tue Dec 20 21:33:18 2005
From: he at reclaimedcomputers.ca (Hugh Esco)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 12:33:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] confusing permission errors, help please
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200512200831470640abb5310f@msapiro>
References: <20051219222329.4ae74e7b.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
	<PC1740200512200831470640abb5310f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20051220123318.5cca2655.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>

Mr. Sapiro:  

Thank you sir, for your help.  

Yes, I ran check_perms with and without -f as root until I got good results.  

I've now added the following stanza to my vhost.conf file:  

   <Directory /u/m/mumble/mailman/cgi-bin/>
     Options ExecCGI
     SetHandler cgi-script
   </Directory>

I don't know what would have undone that.  That stanza is not needed apparently in the other vhost I have.  Perhaps, since this is a third level domain, I ought to check the conf file for its second level configuration.  

I had started setting up mailman (and a couple of other applications) in my apache config file, before the third level was delegates to me.  I commented all of those out and still get the same errors in the browser:  

	Forbidden

	You don't have permission to access /mailman/listinfo on this server.

	Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an 		ErrorDocument to handle the request.

The apache error log for mumble still says:  

	[Tue Dec 20 13:29:44 2005] [error] [client nnn.nnn.nnn.nnn] 
		(13)Permission denied: access to /mailman/listinfo denied

Your answer about using a single user for every instance of mailman didn't indicate if I was actually going overboard by creating instance specific users for each installation.  I have paired up user1 with mumble1, user2 with mumble2, etc., as an added security barrier and to protect users and their archives from one another.  Will it run this way?  Is that necessary?  

If I use a single source directory, yet install in multiple installation directories, each serving its own vhost, can two instances share a listname so I can have dx at mumble1.example.com and another at dx at mumble2.example.com?  

-- Hugh

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 08:31:47 -0800
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Hugh Esco wrote:
> 
> >I might need to do several instances of mailman before the new year, sailed right through my first install, but got stuck on the second one.  I'm seeking advice on how to build this.  Apparently I will need a distinct instance for each virtual host of the $prefix heirarchy.  I'm wondering though if I can have only a single copy of the installation directory which is created from unpacking the tar ball.   
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what you're saying. Yes, you can unpack the tarball only
> once into one source directory, but then for each mailman instance
> you'll have to run configure in that directory with completely
> separate --prefix (and --exec-prefix and --with-var-prefix if used)
> values followed by "make install: for that instance.
> 
> 
> >Also, I'm creating a unique vhost specific user for each instance of mailman.  Is this overkill?  Can a single mailman user support multiple vhosts?  
> 
> 
> Yes. One mailman instance can support multiple vhosts. The restriction
> is that since a single mailman instance has only one 'namespace' for
> listnames, you can't have the same list name on two different vhosts
> supported by the same mailman instance.
> 
> See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.047.htp>
> 
> 
> >At any rate, to the error at hand:  
> >
> >At:  http://mumble.example.ca/mailman/listinfo
> >Browser reports error as:  
> >Forbidden
> >
> >You don't have permission to access /mailman/listinfo on this server.
> >
> >Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
> >
> >/var/log/apache/mumble-error.log says:  
> >[Mon Dec 19 22:43:27 2005] [error] [client nn.nnn.nn.nnn] (13)Permission denied: access to /mailman/listinfo denied
> >
> >permissions on directory and file are:  
> >
> >drwxrwsr-x   2 mumble mumble  320 Dec 19 18:38 cgi-bin
> >-rwxr-sr-x  1 mumble mumble 36637 Dec 19 18:38 cgi-bin/listinfo
> >
> >apache configuration (which works based on function of other aliases) includes: 
> >   ScriptAlias /mailman/ /u/m/mumble/mailman/cgi-bin/
> >
> >OK.  I'm stumped.  
> 
> 
> Have you run /u/m/mumble/mailman/bin/check_perms?
> 
> 
> >I would think that perhaps adding the apache user to the mumble group might do it, but /etc/group shows that the instance of mailman I put up two days ago (another virtual host on the same gentoo server), which works, did not require that intervention.  And I see that the permissions are 02755 on the script, so apache ought to be able to execute the script regardless.  
> >
> 
> 
> I agree.
> 
> Do you perhaps have something in your Apache config that directly or
> indirectly removed the ExecCGI option from the
> /u/m/mumble/mailman/cgi-bin/ directory?
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-- 
RCK Computer Services 
http://reclaimedcomputers.ca/



From bolker at ufl.edu  Tue Dec 20 21:25:36 2005
From: bolker at ufl.edu (Ben Bolker)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 20:25:36 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] scrubbing/posting attachments?
Message-ID: <loom.20051220T212144-297@post.gmane.org>


 (Don't know whether this post belongs in the development list or not ...)
 (I know very little about Mailman at this point, am just trying to gather
some information.)

  We would very much like to be able to configure Mailman to strip certain
attachments, but rather than deleting them entirely have them posted to
a temporary or archived location and have the attachment replaced by
a link to that location.  (The point would be to allow users to send
useful attachments to the list (e.g. Excel files etc.) without hammering
the mail server.)
   It seems that Mailman already does something very much like this for
archiving purposes.  Is it imaginable that the existing code could be
hacked/adapted to allow this behavior?

  sincerely
    Ben Bolker



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Dec 20 22:15:37 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 13:15:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange Email
In-Reply-To: <r02010400-1039-1A70ABDD719611DA8195000A95845562@[66.170.10.196]>
Message-ID: <PC17402005122013153706566b46eb15@msapiro>

Jess Mooers wrote:

>I recently started receiving the following email:
>
>====== Forwarded Message ======
>Date: 12/20/05 1:45 PM
>Received: 12/20/05 2:12 PM -0600
>From: Cron Daemon <root at landmannassoc.com>
>To: root at landmannassoc.com
>
>/usr/bin/python: can't open file '/Applications/mailman/cron/gate_news'
>
>====== End Forwarded Message ======
>
>
>I understand why I am getting the message, as the path is invalid, but I have a few questions.
>
>1. Where is the email generated?


By the cron daemon when it attempts to run the command.


>2. Can I change the address it is sent to (my domain has changed)?


Yes. See 'man cron' 'man crontab' and 'man 5 crontab'


>3. Where is the path defined as 'Applications/mailman/cron/gate_news' so I can change it?


In some crontab. Normally, it's the mailman user's crontab which is
possibly /var/spool/cron/mailman, but is installed/maintained by
'crontab' - see 'man crontab'.

However, the fact that results/errors are apparently being mailed to
'root' and not 'mailman' says this may be a crontab installed in
/etc/cron.d. These are a slightly different format as they have an
additional field between the times/days and the command which contains
the user under which to run the command.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Dec 20 22:28:26 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 13:28:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] scrubbing/posting attachments?
In-Reply-To: <loom.20051220T212144-297@post.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512201328260968d6de4902@msapiro>

Ben Bolker wrote:
>
>  We would very much like to be able to configure Mailman to strip certain
>attachments, but rather than deleting them entirely have them posted to
>a temporary or archived location and have the attachment replaced by
>a link to that location.  (The point would be to allow users to send
>useful attachments to the list (e.g. Excel files etc.) without hammering
>the mail server.)
>   It seems that Mailman already does something very much like this for
>archiving purposes.  Is it imaginable that the existing code could be
>hacked/adapted to allow this behavior?


Mailman 2.1.6 and above also does this for regular posts if you set the
list's scrub_nondigest attribute to Yes. You can also make the default
for new lists = Yes by putting

DEFAULT_SCRUB_NONDIGEST = Yes

in mm_cfg.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From scott at fyrenice.com  Tue Dec 20 16:26:25 2005
From: scott at fyrenice.com (Dr. Scott S. Jones)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 08:26:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can't see icons
Message-ID: <20051220152625.GA1823@xmission.com>

I can't see any icons, just the placeholders and labels for them, when I
open Mailman. 

How do I direct Apache2 and Mailman to see where the icons reside so that
Mailman can properly display them? 

Scott



From thomaswaters at mac.com  Tue Dec 20 23:17:31 2005
From: thomaswaters at mac.com (Thomas Waters)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 17:17:31 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Way to reset list Admin password?
Message-ID: <D36C85BF-84A4-4177-BB7B-62DAFD1873E5@mac.com>

I replaced an older server today with a new Mac OS X XServe.  I moved  
my mailman lists and I see then in the Server Admin.  but when I try  
and access them via the Mailman web page UI, I get a " Authorization  
failed" error when I try to enter my list moderator password.



I found this in the archive and willing to give it a try, but wanted  
to see 1) Is this the right way to go?  2) Other suggestions?

http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg34242.html


Old Server: Mac OS X Server 10.4.4/ G4 tower; Mailman 2.1.5
New Server: Mac OS X Server 10.4.4/ G5 XServe;  Mailman 2.1.5



NOTE: new email address
--
Thomas Waters
Director of Information and Communication Services
University of Pittsburgh School of Pharmacy
412-383-7471
waterstc at pitt.edu
http://www.pharmacy.pitt.edu



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Dec 21 00:10:21 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 15:10:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Way to reset list Admin password?
In-Reply-To: <D36C85BF-84A4-4177-BB7B-62DAFD1873E5@mac.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005122015102107346180dfb3@msapiro>

Thomas Waters wrote:

>I replaced an older server today with a new Mac OS X XServe.  I moved  
>my mailman lists and I see then in the Server Admin.  but when I try  
>and access them via the Mailman web page UI, I get a " Authorization  
>failed" error when I try to enter my list moderator password.


If you literally mean what you said, you're not supposed to be able to
access the list's 'admin' interface with the 'moderator' password. You
can only access the 'admindb' interface with the 'moderator' password.
The 'admin' interface requires the list's 'administrator' password or
the Mailman installation's 'site' password.

I expect though that when you say 'moderator' you probably mean
'administrator'

>I found this in the archive and willing to give it a try, but wanted  
>to see 1) Is this the right way to go?  2) Other suggestions?
>
>http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg34242.html

This is one way to proceed. The other is to log on to the list's admin
interface with the site password and change the list administrator
password via the admin->Passwords page. You can use bin/mmsitepass to
set a new site password.

It just occurs to me that maybe you've been using the site password all
along, and you didn't move data/adm.pw to the new server.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Dec 21 00:20:21 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 15:20:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can't see icons
In-Reply-To: <20051220152625.GA1823@xmission.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005122015202106405dd238b5@msapiro>

Dr. Scott S. Jones wrote:

>I can't see any icons, just the placeholders and labels for them, when I
>open Mailman. 
>
>How do I direct Apache2 and Mailman to see where the icons reside so that
>Mailman can properly display them? 

What I do is copy them to apache's icons directory as described in
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node10.html>. I believe Apache
aliases this directory to /icons/ by default, so no mm_cfg.py change
to the default

IMAGE_LOGOS = '/icons/'

is required.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From he at reclaimedcomputers.ca  Wed Dec 21 00:16:53 2005
From: he at reclaimedcomputers.ca (Hugh Esco)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 15:16:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] apache config issue?
Message-ID: <20051220151653.34cb3812.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>

Mr. Sapiro:  

Thank you sir, for your help.  

Yes, I ran check_perms with and without -f as root until I got good results.  

I've now added the following stanza to my vhost.conf file:  

   <Directory /u/m/mumble/mailman/cgi-bin/>
     Options ExecCGI
     SetHandler cgi-script
   </Directory>

I don't know what would have undone that.  That stanza is not needed apparently in the other vhost I have.  Perhaps, since this is a third level domain, I ought to check the conf file for its second level configuration.  

I had started setting up mailman (and a couple of other applications) in my apache config file, before the third level was delegates to me.  I commented all of those out and still get the same errors in the browser:  

	Forbidden

	You don't have permission to access /mailman/listinfo on this server.

	Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an 		ErrorDocument to handle the request.

The apache error log for mumble still says:  

	[Tue Dec 20 13:29:44 2005] [error] [client nnn.nnn.nnn.nnn] 
		(13)Permission denied: access to /mailman/listinfo denied

Your answer about using a single user for every instance of mailman didn't indicate if I was actually going overboard by creating instance specific users for each installation.  I have paired up user1 with mumble1, user2 with mumble2, etc., as an added security barrier and to protect users and their archives from one another.  Will it run this way?  Is that necessary?  

If I use a single source directory, yet install in multiple installation directories, each serving its own vhost, can two instances share a listname so I can have dx at mumble1.example.com and another at dx at mumble2.example.com?  

-- Hugh

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 08:31:47 -0800
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Hugh Esco wrote:
> 
> >I might need to do several instances of mailman before the new year, sailed right through my first install, but got stuck on the second one.  I'm seeking advice on how to build this.  Apparently I will need a distinct instance for each virtual host of the $prefix heirarchy.  I'm wondering though if I can have only a single copy of the installation directory which is created from unpacking the tar ball.   
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what you're saying. Yes, you can unpack the tarball only
> once into one source directory, but then for each mailman instance
> you'll have to run configure in that directory with completely
> separate --prefix (and --exec-prefix and --with-var-prefix if used)
> values followed by "make install: for that instance.
> 
> 
> >Also, I'm creating a unique vhost specific user for each instance of mailman.  Is this overkill?  Can a single mailman user support multiple vhosts?  
> 
> 
> Yes. One mailman instance can support multiple vhosts. The restriction
> is that since a single mailman instance has only one 'namespace' for
> listnames, you can't have the same list name on two different vhosts
> supported by the same mailman instance.
> 
> See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.047.htp>
> 
> 
> >At any rate, to the error at hand:  
> >
> >At:  http://mumble.example.ca/mailman/listinfo
> >Browser reports error as:  
> >Forbidden
> >
> >You don't have permission to access /mailman/listinfo on this server.
> >
> >Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
> >
> >/var/log/apache/mumble-error.log says:  
> >[Mon Dec 19 22:43:27 2005] [error] [client nn.nnn.nn.nnn] (13)Permission denied: access to /mailman/listinfo denied
> >
> >permissions on directory and file are:  
> >
> >drwxrwsr-x   2 mumble mumble  320 Dec 19 18:38 cgi-bin
> >-rwxr-sr-x  1 mumble mumble 36637 Dec 19 18:38 cgi-bin/listinfo
> >
> >apache configuration (which works based on function of other aliases) includes: 
> >   ScriptAlias /mailman/ /u/m/mumble/mailman/cgi-bin/
> >
> >OK.  I'm stumped.  
> 
> 
> Have you run /u/m/mumble/mailman/bin/check_perms?
> 
> 
> >I would think that perhaps adding the apache user to the mumble group might do it, but /etc/group shows that the instance of mailman I put up two days ago (another virtual host on the same gentoo server), which works, did not require that intervention.  And I see that the permissions are 02755 on the script, so apache ought to be able to execute the script regardless.  
> >
> 
> 
> I agree.
> 
> Do you perhaps have something in your Apache config that directly or
> indirectly removed the ExecCGI option from the
> /u/m/mumble/mailman/cgi-bin/ directory?
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-- 
RCK Computer Services 
http://reclaimedcomputers.ca/


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Dec 21 00:52:37 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 15:52:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] confusing permission errors, help please
In-Reply-To: <20051220123318.5cca2655.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512201552370578d6de4787@msapiro>

Hugh Esco wrote:
>
>The apache error log for mumble still says:  
>
>	[Tue Dec 20 13:29:44 2005] [error] [client nnn.nnn.nnn.nnn] 
>		(13)Permission denied: access to /mailman/listinfo denied


So apparently, adding

   <Directory /u/m/mumble/mailman/cgi-bin/>
     Options ExecCGI
     SetHandler cgi-script
   </Directory>

didn't fix it. I would have added "Options +ExecCGI", but that probably
won't help either.

The "403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an
ErrorDocument" seems to say there is something wrong with this virtual
host. Are you by any chance using suEXEC with this virtual host? Are
you running SELinux?

If suEXEC, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.017.htp>


>Your answer about using a single user for every instance of mailman didn't indicate if I was actually going overboard by creating instance specific users for each installation.  I have paired up user1 with mumble1, user2 with mumble2, etc., as an added security barrier and to protect users and their archives from one another.  Will it run this way?  Is that necessary?  


Yes, it will run that way. If you don't need the ability to have the
same list name on separate hosts, then this is probably overkill. if
you're asking is having a separate user per Mailman instance overkill
vs. having multiple, distinct instances all with the same user, having
separate users would allow giving the actual virtual host clients more
control over/visibility into their own Mailman without allowing them
to impact others. This may be useful. The alternative protection is to
have restrictive enough permissions so the individual virtual host
users don't have shell access to their Mailman at all.


>If I use a single source directory, yet install in multiple installation directories, each serving its own vhost, can two instances share a listname so I can have dx at mumble1.example.com and another at dx at mumble2.example.com?


Yes, and that is the major reason for doing it this way. If you don't
need this ability, you can probably do just fine with a single mailman
instance with Mailman's virtual host support.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From he at reclaimedcomputers.ca  Wed Dec 21 01:31:49 2005
From: he at reclaimedcomputers.ca (Hugh Esco)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 16:31:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] confusing permission errors, help please
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200512201552370578d6de4787@msapiro>
References: <20051220123318.5cca2655.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
	<PC1740200512201552370578d6de4787@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20051220163149.5a51e92a.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>

I added the + sign, restarted the apache server and still got the same errors in the borwser and apache log: "Permission denied: access to /mailman/listinfo denied".  

I'm running gentoo (not SELinux) on this server, while my experience is with debian.  A choice made by others, I'm afraid.  So in the mean time, I'm groping.  I just took a quick scan at the suEXEC docs on the apache2 site.  But I have no previous familiarity with it.  Nor am I sure how I might determine if apache was compiled with it.  Looking at my configuration files with grep suEXEC -R /etc/apache2/* yielded an empty result set.  

As an experiment, I'll try the advise for suEXEC.  If it doesn't get me anywhere, I'll back it out.  

-- Hugh 

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 15:52:37 -0800
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Hugh Esco wrote:
> >
> >The apache error log for mumble still says:  
> >
> >	[Tue Dec 20 13:29:44 2005] [error] [client nnn.nnn.nnn.nnn] 
> >		(13)Permission denied: access to /mailman/listinfo denied
> 
> 
> So apparently, adding
> 
>    <Directory /u/m/mumble/mailman/cgi-bin/>
>      Options ExecCGI
>      SetHandler cgi-script
>    </Directory>
> 
> didn't fix it. I would have added "Options +ExecCGI", but that probably
> won't help either.
> 
> The "403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an
> ErrorDocument" seems to say there is something wrong with this virtual
> host. Are you by any chance using suEXEC with this virtual host? Are
> you running SELinux?
> 
> If suEXEC, see
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.017.htp>
> 
> 
> >Your answer about using a single user for every instance of mailman didn't indicate if I was actually going overboard by creating instance specific users for each installation.  I have paired up user1 with mumble1, user2 with mumble2, etc., as an added security barrier and to protect users and their archives from one another.  Will it run this way?  Is that necessary?  
> 
> 
> Yes, it will run that way. If you don't need the ability to have the
> same list name on separate hosts, then this is probably overkill. if
> you're asking is having a separate user per Mailman instance overkill
> vs. having multiple, distinct instances all with the same user, having
> separate users would allow giving the actual virtual host clients more
> control over/visibility into their own Mailman without allowing them
> to impact others. This may be useful. The alternative protection is to
> have restrictive enough permissions so the individual virtual host
> users don't have shell access to their Mailman at all.
> 
> 
> >If I use a single source directory, yet install in multiple installation directories, each serving its own vhost, can two instances share a listname so I can have dx at mumble1.example.com and another at dx at mumble2.example.com?
> 
> 
> Yes, and that is the major reason for doing it this way. If you don't
> need this ability, you can probably do just fine with a single mailman
> instance with Mailman's virtual host support.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-- 
RCK Computer Services 
http://reclaimedcomputers.ca/



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Dec 21 01:48:33 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 16:48:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] confusing permission errors, help please
In-Reply-To: <20051220163149.5a51e92a.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512201648330656d6de47d1@msapiro>

Hugh Esco wrote:
>
>As an experiment, I'll try the advise for suEXEC.  If it doesn't get me anywhere, I'll back it out.  

It doesn't matter whether Apache was compiled with it. If you do NOT
have an SuexecUserGroup directive in your virtual host or globally in
your Apache configuration, then this is not the issue in your case.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Dec 21 01:56:01 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 16:56:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] removing a post before digest
In-Reply-To: <c1df09680512201158j67d1cb32j297a297dbcaf2f66@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512201656010953d6de48da@msapiro>

Mister Time wrote:

>does anyone know where mailman resides on a server after it has been created
>by cpanel?


You might have better luck following the advice in
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ben at ahualoa.net  Wed Dec 21 02:02:40 2005
From: ben at ahualoa.net (Ben)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 15:02:40 -1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman vs. Apache - please help
Message-ID: <001601c605ca$3dd63920$a702a8c0@LittleGuy>

Hi folks,

I have the latest versions of Apache and Cygwin installed on my WinXP
machine.  Under Cygwin, I have Exim installed (and working), and Mailman
(build and installed).

I cannot get Mailman to co-operate with Apache.

Following this advice:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=all#5.2

I made a user called "mailman" which is a member of a group "mm", then
configured and installed mailman with these.  I ran check_perms and all
permissions are OK.

This is in my Apache config:

ScriptAlias /mailman "C:/cygwin/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin"
<Directory "C:/cygwin/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/">
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
</Directory>

When I attempt to access Mailman from my brower, eg.
http://ahualoa.net/mailman/admin.exe

I get:
"Mailman CGI error!!!
Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the CGI wrapper script to be
executed as group "mm", but the system's web server executed the CGI
script as group "Administrators".  Try tweaking the web server to run
the script as group "mm", or re-run configure, providing the command
line option `--with-cgi-gid=Administrators'."

Does this really mean I have to force Apache to run as a user in the
"mm" group?  From what I know of Apache, that means forcing it with
suEXEC which is really horribly messy.

There is this advice in the GNU Mailman - Installation Manual, section
10:
"Warning: You want to be very sure that the user id under which your CGI
scripts run is NOT in the mailman group you created above, otherwise
private archives will be accessible to anyone."

This seems to directly contradict the "Mailman CGI error" message - do I
need to run the mailman CGI scripts as "mailman.mm", or not?

Thanks for any help, advice or pointers!

-Ben



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Dec 21 02:22:37 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 17:22:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman vs. Apache - please help
In-Reply-To: <001601c605ca$3dd63920$a702a8c0@LittleGuy>
Message-ID: <PC174020051220172237007829a05593@msapiro>

Ben wrote:
>
>I get:
>"Mailman CGI error!!!
>Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the CGI wrapper script to be
>executed as group "mm", but the system's web server executed the CGI
>script as group "Administrators".  Try tweaking the web server to run
>the script as group "mm", or re-run configure, providing the command
>line option `--with-cgi-gid=Administrators'."
>
>Does this really mean I have to force Apache to run as a user in the
>"mm" group?  From what I know of Apache, that means forcing it with
>suEXEC which is really horribly messy.


No. You don't need (or want) suEXEC. The above message indicates that
you configured mailman with --with-cgi-gid=mm. This is not what you
wanted to do as it requires you to have Apache run the cgi-bin
wrappers as group 'mm' (which I think you could do with User and Group
directives rather than suEXEC, but you don't want to anyway).

What you need is just what it says. Rerun configure with
--with-cgi-gid=Administrators instead of --with-cgi-gid=mm (and the
rest of the options the same as before) and then run 'make install'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From he at reclaimedcomputers.ca  Wed Dec 21 02:37:50 2005
From: he at reclaimedcomputers.ca (Hugh Esco)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 17:37:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] confusing permission errors, help please
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200512201648330656d6de47d1@msapiro>
References: <20051220163149.5a51e92a.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
	<PC1740200512201648330656d6de47d1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20051220173750.349e0f84.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>

It didn't matter.  I backed it out.  

I then replicated my apache.conf vhost definition as gibberish.validdomain.org, where the vhost file for validdomain includes the first working mailman installation.  

This time, I got a working listinfo page reporting no lists for gibberish.validdomain.org.  This is so even though I had not and still have not built and configured an instance of mailman as suggested by the apache config file.  

This suggests to me some relationship between my control of a second level domain, in the case of the working examples, and my efforts to configure for a third level name in the example which is giving me fits.  

-- Hugh 

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 16:48:33 -0800
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Hugh Esco wrote:
> >
> >As an experiment, I'll try the advise for suEXEC.  If it doesn't get me anywhere, I'll back it out.  
> 
> It doesn't matter whether Apache was compiled with it. If you do NOT
> have an SuexecUserGroup directive in your virtual host or globally in
> your Apache configuration, then this is not the issue in your case.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-- 
RCK Computer Services 
http://reclaimedcomputers.ca/



From ben at ahualoa.net  Wed Dec 21 07:26:21 2005
From: ben at ahualoa.net (Ben)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 20:26:21 -1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman under Cygwin - won't add list
Message-ID: <000001c605f7$75dc2320$a702a8c0@LittleGuy>

Hi folks,

Aside from the Apache problem, I can't seem to get Mailman to create a
list.  This is on Cygwin.

I give the command:

 $ newlist friends
 Enter the email of the person running the list: ben at ahualoa.net
 Initial friends password:
 Create a new, unpopulated mailing list.
 Usage: /usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist [options] [listname
[listadmin-addr [admin- password]]]
 Options: (...a whole bunch of explanation...)
 Illegal list name: friends at LittleGuy

Now, "LittleGuy" is just the name of my local host; it's not the
fully-qualified domain.  I don't know why Mailman is trying to use it,
but I figured that I could force it otherwise:

 $ newlist --urlhost=ahualoa.net --emailhost=ahualoa.net
friends at ahualoa.net
 Enter the email of the person running the list: ben at ahualoa.net
 Initial friends password:
 (....)
 Illegal list name: friends at LittleGuy

This doesn't make any sense at all.  I'm telling Mailman very explicitly
which domain to create the list on.  Why is Mailman still trying to use
my local hostname?

Thanks,
Ben



From ben at ahualoa.net  Wed Dec 21 07:40:40 2005
From: ben at ahualoa.net (Ben)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 20:40:40 -1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman vs. Apache - please help
In-Reply-To: <PC174020051220172237007829a05593@msapiro>
Message-ID: <000101c605f9$755c80f0$a702a8c0@LittleGuy>

Mark,

Thanks very much for tackling my issue.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 3:23 PM
> 
> >"Mailman CGI error!!!
> >Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the CGI wrapper script to be 
> >executed as group "mm", but the system's web server executed the CGI 
> >script as group "Administrators".
> >
> >Does this really mean I have to force Apache to run as a user in the 
> >"mm" group?
> 
> No. You don't need (or want) suEXEC.

I'm very glad to hear it, because I suspect that suEXEC doesn't really
exist on Cygwin in any case.

> The above message 
> indicates that you configured mailman with --with-cgi-gid=mm. 
> This is not what you wanted to do as it requires you to have 
> Apache run the cgi-bin wrappers as group 'mm'

I believe you, and I'll try it next with a 'mm' group, but it is a
little alarming, because that contradicts the Mailman documentation (GNU
Mailman - Installation Manual, section 2.1) which says:
	"Mailman _requires_ a unique user and group name which will own
its files, and under which its processes will run. Mailman's basic
security is based on group ownership permissions, so it's important to
get this step right. Typically, you will add a new user and a new group,
both called mailman. The mailman user must be a member of the mailman
group."

It also contradicts the Whole Mailman FAQ
(http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=all#5.2), which explicitly
walks you through creating the "mailman" user and the "mm" group, under
Cygwin no less.

> (which I think you could do with User and Group directives 
> rather than suEXEC, but you don't want to anyway).

I looked all through the Apache documentation but didn't find any User
or Group directives.  The relevant portion of the Apache site:
  http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/mod_cgi.html
Has a link "Running CGI programs under different user IDs" which directs
you to a page on suEXEC.  There is no other way, unless it is
undocumented.

> What you need is just what it says. Rerun configure with 
> --with-cgi-gid=Administrators instead of --with-cgi-gid=mm 
> (and the rest of the options the same as before) and then run 
> 'make install'.

I will try it.  If this proves to work, then there are some serious
changes needed to the Mailman documentation and FAQ.

Thanks,
Ben



From he at reclaimedcomputers.ca  Wed Dec 21 07:50:57 2005
From: he at reclaimedcomputers.ca (Hugh Esco)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 22:50:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] confusing permission errors, help please
In-Reply-To: <20051220173750.349e0f84.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
References: <20051220163149.5a51e92a.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
	<PC1740200512201648330656d6de47d1@msapiro>
	<20051220173750.349e0f84.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
Message-ID: <20051220225057.09c21471.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>

That's a never mind.  Turns out I missed the forest while looking at the trees.  

the mailman/cgi-bin/'s permissions were fine, but the mode on a directory a level or so up were too restrictive to let apache look that deep to read what was inside.  a chmod 02775 fixed that and I now can browse to the mailman instance.  

Thanks for your ideas and help.  Thanks for a great product.  

-- Hugh 

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 17:37:50 -0800
Hugh Esco <he at reclaimedcomputers.ca> wrote:

> It didn't matter.  I backed it out.  
> 
> I then replicated my apache.conf vhost definition as gibberish.validdomain.org, where the vhost file for validdomain includes the first working mailman installation.  
> 
> This time, I got a working listinfo page reporting no lists for gibberish.validdomain.org.  This is so even though I had not and still have not built and configured an instance of mailman as suggested by the apache config file.  
> 
> This suggests to me some relationship between my control of a second level domain, in the case of the working examples, and my efforts to configure for a third level name in the example which is giving me fits.  
> 
> -- Hugh 
> 
> On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 16:48:33 -0800
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> 
> > Hugh Esco wrote:
> > >
> > >As an experiment, I'll try the advise for suEXEC.  If it doesn't get me anywhere, I'll back it out.  
> > 
> > It doesn't matter whether Apache was compiled with it. If you do NOT
> > have an SuexecUserGroup directive in your virtual host or globally in
> > your Apache configuration, then this is not the issue in your case.
> > 
> > -- 
> > Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> > San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> -- 
> RCK Computer Services 
> http://reclaimedcomputers.ca/
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/he%40reclaimedcomputers.ca
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

-- 
RCK Computer Services 
http://reclaimedcomputers.ca/



From munzirtaha at gmail.com  Wed Dec 21 09:39:18 2005
From: munzirtaha at gmail.com (Munzir Taha)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 11:39:18 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Any problem in listening to localhost for an
	announcement mailing list instead of my ip.ad.re.ss?
Message-ID: <200512211139.23009.munzirtaha@gmail.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi Sir,

This is the first time I install a mailing list so I am not sure whether what
I am doing is correct or had some side effects. I installed mailman in my
lists.mydomain.com where

lists.mydomain.com.         3600    IN      MX      10 lists.mydomain.com.
mydomain.com.

and netstat -ap shows
tcp  localhost.domain:smtp       *:*      LISTEN      -
since my sendmail.mc is set to
DAEMON_OPTIONS(`Port=smtp,Addr=127.0.0.1, Name=MTA')dnl

One problem is that aliases I added to /etc/aliases won't work and one can't 
subscribe to the mailing list via sending a 'reply' to the subscripitoin 
confirmation notice and need only to click the confirmation url so I would 
need to edit files such as verify.txt, invite.txt, and unsub.txt and omit 
that relavent 'confirm %(cookie)s' part. Am I going against any 
recommendation here?


- --
Munzir Taha
Telecommunications and Electronics Engineer
Maintainer of Fedora Arabic Translation Project
https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-trans-ar
Maintainer of the OpenBugs project page at
http://www.arabic-fedora.org/munzir/OpenBugs.html
Master CIW Designer, ICDL, MOUS, Linux+, LPI 101
Riyadh, SA
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFDqRS6OBlicvBnGCERAg76AJ9jpuUiROnazpYEDCve9/EGHh4atACcCEtR
71t3F/ggMsPDTaMdLLasgSU=
=CDap
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From ben at ahualoa.net  Wed Dec 21 09:47:12 2005
From: ben at ahualoa.net (Ben)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 22:47:12 -1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman under Cygwin - won't add list
In-Reply-To: <000001c605f7$75dc2320$a702a8c0@LittleGuy>
Message-ID: <000501c6060b$229ed7c0$a702a8c0@LittleGuy>

Hi folks,

Some more information.  I tried to banish all knowledge of the local
hostname by providing the --with-mailhost and --with-urlhost arguments
at the time of configure:

$ ./configure --with-mail-gid=mm --with-cgi-gid=Administrators
--with-groupname=mm --with-cgi-ext=.exe --with-mailhost=ahualoa.net
--with-urlhost=ahualoa.net

Then I did the 'make' and 'make install' and 'check_perms'.

Now, when I try to add a list, I get a python error!

$ newlist --urlhost=ahualoa.net --emailhost=ahualoa.net friends
ben at ahualoa.net
Initial friends password:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist", line 254, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist", line 196, in main
    mlist.Create(listname, owner_mail, pw)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 488, in Create
    self.__lock.lock()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 243, in lock
    self.__write()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 422, in __write
    fp = open(self.__tmpfname, 'w')
IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
'/usr/local/mailman/locks/<site>.lock.LittleGuy.2992.0'

I have no idea why it is trying to create this lock file, nor why it
would be unable to do so.  The permissions are all normal:

$ ls -al /usr/local/mailman
total 0
(...)
drwxrwsrwx+  2 mailman mm    0 Dec 20 20:55 icons
drwxrwsrwx+  3 mailman mm    0 Dec 20 22:32 lists
drwxrwsrwx+  2 mailman mm    0 Dec 20 12:00 locks

The locks folder is empty.  I tried running the 'newlist' command as
user 'mailman', and as a user with Adminstrator priveleges.  In both
cases it gives that same IOError.

Can anyone help?  All I am trying to do is create a simple mailing list.

Thanks,
Ben

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ben
> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 8:26 PM
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> 
> Aside from the Apache problem, I can't seem to get Mailman to 
> create a list.  This is on Cygwin.
> 
> I give the command:
> 
>  $ newlist friends
>  Enter the email of the person running the list: 
> ben at ahualoa.net  Initial friends password:  Create a new, 
> unpopulated mailing list.
>  Usage: /usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist [options] [listname 
> [listadmin-addr [admin- password]]]
>  Options: (...a whole bunch of explanation...)
>  Illegal list name: friends at LittleGuy
> 
> Now, "LittleGuy" is just the name of my local host; it's not 
> the fully-qualified domain.  I don't know why Mailman is 
> trying to use it, but I figured that I could force it otherwise:
> 
>  $ newlist --urlhost=ahualoa.net --emailhost=ahualoa.net 
> friends at ahualoa.net  Enter the email of the person running 
> the list: ben at ahualoa.net  Initial friends password:
>  (....)
>  Illegal list name: friends at LittleGuy
> 
> This doesn't make any sense at all.  I'm telling Mailman very 
> explicitly which domain to create the list on.  Why is 
> Mailman still trying to use my local hostname?



From m.cave-ayland at webbased.co.uk  Wed Dec 21 11:00:00 2005
From: m.cave-ayland at webbased.co.uk (Mark Cave-Ayland)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 10:00:00 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error when accessing Mailman CGI web interface
In-Reply-To: <1135098180.17343.13.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
Message-ID: <200512210959.jBL9xB423378@webbased16.localdomain>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Dennis [mailto:jdennis at redhat.com]
> Sent: 20 December 2005 17:03
> To: Mark Cave-Ayland
> Cc: 'Mark Sapiro'; mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Error when accessing Mailman CGI web
> interface

(cut)

> Then I don't think I can help :-( Your original post said the you built
> mailman with uid=gid=mailman and the wrapper seems to be executing
> correctly based on a subsequent post. All looks good from here. Here is
> the sequence that should be happening, see if you can find any reason
> why its not:
> 
> apache invokes the cgi wrapper as the user 'apache', the cgi wrapper
> verifies it was called by apache, then the wrapper does a setgid to
> mailman and invokes the driver script, the driver script should be group
> mailman, so it should have no problems reading the driver script, but
> that is what is failing, go figure, seems like it should work.


Hi John/Mark,

Thank you both very much for you suggestions. I have finally managed to get
mailman working on my FC3 box, after a lot of fiddling. What happened was
that someone had already installed the mailman FC3 RPM on the box in
question, and so I did an "rpm -e" to remove the old installation before
installing the .tar.gz file.

This left the mailman user in /etc/passwd, /etc/group and /etc/shadow and so
I decided to make use of this existing user to run the new mailman install.
However it seems that this was the cause of the problem. So I simply deleted
and recreated the mailman user with a new uid/gid, and now everything works
as expected.


Many thanks,

Mark.

------------------------
WebBased Ltd
17 Research Way
Plymouth
PL6 8BT

T: +44 (0)1752 797131
F: +44 (0)1752 791023

http://www.webbased.co.uk   
http://www.infomapper.com
http://www.swtc.co.uk  

This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient
and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please
delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or
use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other
person.




From dave at dpss.bz  Wed Dec 21 14:27:04 2005
From: dave at dpss.bz (Dave B)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 07:27:04 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce disable messages even when getting mail
In-Reply-To: <PC174020051219232109093746759fb2@msapiro>
References: <PC174020051219232109093746759fb2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <0e2dcd07a656eb7e45d3db4042f0a373@dpss.bz>

>> Have you looked in the bounce log to see if bounces are being recorded
>> for your address?

The log does show that bounces are being recorded for my address. It 
shows the bounce message and score and then shows that account was 
disabled. There are also several (10 - 20) entries per list per day 
stating that address had received a bounce for that day and also 
several entries about receiving residual bounces.

>> Do you have the list's bounce_notify_owner_on_disable set to yes, and
>> if so does the owner receive a disable notification with a copy of the
>> triggering bounce?

It is set to yes. and bounce_notify_owner_on_removal is set to yes.

(I am out of town for a week or so and only able to check my email 
every other day so please don't think I am unresponsive and therefore 
not that interested in figuring this out).

Dave

On Dec 20, 2005, at 1:21 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Dave B wrote:
>
>> I keep getting messages that my account has been disabled due to
>> excessive bounces even though I am getting the email. I am both a user
>> on the list and the administrator. Mailman is running on a Mac OS X
>> Server 10.3.9 Mailman version 2.1.4. I will go in and re-enable
>> delivery and set it globally and then six days later I get the disable
>> message again. As far as I can tell, I am getting all messages until
>> the account is disabled. Anybody have any ideas on what might be
>> causing this?
>
>



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Dec 21 15:57:59 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 06:57:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman under Cygwin - won't add list
In-Reply-To: <000501c6060b$229ed7c0$a702a8c0@LittleGuy>
Message-ID: <PC174020051221065759092133f6e794@msapiro>

Ben wrote:
>
>Now, when I try to add a list, I get a python error!
>
>$ newlist --urlhost=ahualoa.net --emailhost=ahualoa.net friends
>ben at ahualoa.net
>Initial friends password:
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist", line 254, in ?
>    main()
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist", line 196, in main
>    mlist.Create(listname, owner_mail, pw)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 488, in Create
>    self.__lock.lock()
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 243, in lock
>    self.__write()
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 422, in __write
>    fp = open(self.__tmpfname, 'w')
>IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
>'/usr/local/mailman/locks/<site>.lock.LittleGuy.2992.0'
>
>I have no idea why it is trying to create this lock file, nor why it
>would be unable to do so.  The permissions are all normal:

The MailList.Create() method needs to obtain a lock for the create
process. Unfortunately, the name of the 'site' lock is not a valid
Windows name. Thus on Cygwin, you need to patch MailList.py similarly
to

--- mailman-2.1.6/Mailman/MailList.py	2005-02-15 16:21:41
+++ mailman-mas/Mailman/MailList.py	2005-10-15 14:29:56
@@ -267,7 +267,7 @@
         # need to reload, otherwise... we do.
         self.__timestamp = 0
         self.__lock = LockFile.LockFile(
-            os.path.join(mm_cfg.LOCK_DIR, name or '<site>') + '.lock',
+            os.path.join(mm_cfg.LOCK_DIR, name or '_site_') + '.lock',
             # TBD: is this a good choice of lifetime?
             lifetime = mm_cfg.LIST_LOCK_LIFETIME,
             withlogging = mm_cfg.LIST_LOCK_DEBUGGING)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Dec 21 16:08:16 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 07:08:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman vs. Apache - please help
In-Reply-To: <000101c605f9$755c80f0$a702a8c0@LittleGuy>
Message-ID: <PC174020051221070816093733f6e779@msapiro>

Ben wrote:
>
>> What you need is just what it says. Rerun configure with 
>> --with-cgi-gid=Administrators instead of --with-cgi-gid=mm 
>> (and the rest of the options the same as before) and then run 
>> 'make install'.
>
>I will try it.  If this proves to work, then there are some serious
>changes needed to the Mailman documentation and FAQ.

I don't think so. I think you are misunderstanding what you read. You
do need a 'mailman' (or 'mm') user and group, you just don't want your
web server to invoke the wrappers as that group. Thats what
--with-cgi-gid is for. Read
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp>,
and if you still think there is a problem with the documentation, we
would be happy to get your specific suggestions for improvement.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Dec 21 16:34:22 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 07:34:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Any problem in listening to localhost for
	anannouncement mailing list instead of my ip.ad.re.ss?
In-Reply-To: <200512211139.23009.munzirtaha@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020051221073422032869e5313e@msapiro>

Munzir Taha wrote:
>
>This is the first time I install a mailing list so I am not sure whether what
>I am doing is correct or had some side effects. I installed mailman in my
>lists.mydomain.com where
>
>lists.mydomain.com.         3600    IN      MX      10 lists.mydomain.com.
>mydomain.com.
>
>and netstat -ap shows
>tcp  localhost.domain:smtp       *:*      LISTEN      -
>since my sendmail.mc is set to
>DAEMON_OPTIONS(`Port=smtp,Addr=127.0.0.1, Name=MTA')dnl
>
>One problem is that aliases I added to /etc/aliases won't work and one can't 
>subscribe to the mailing list via sending a 'reply' to the subscripitoin 
>confirmation notice and need only to click the confirmation url so I would 
>need to edit files such as verify.txt, invite.txt, and unsub.txt and omit 
>that relavent 'confirm %(cookie)s' part. Am I going against any 
>recommendation here?


I'm not sure if I understand correctly, but you shouldn't need to
modify templates regarding email confirmation. You may want to modify
the subscribeack.txt template to be more appropriate for an
announcement list, but that's a different issue. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.011.htp>.

Your aliases MUST work and you MUST be able to receive mail at some
domain and pipe it appropriately to Mailman. This domain would be your
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and would be the host_name attribute for each list.
I suppose it would be possible to run an announcement list that
couldn't receive email, but bounce processing wouldn't work, posting
would be awkward and subscribing/unsubscribing/option-setting/etc.
couldn't be done by email.

So bottom line is you have to set up your MX records and incoming MTA
to be able to receive and deliver to Mailman.

You probably also want your MTA to listen on 'localhost' for outgoing
mail.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Dec 21 16:54:45 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 07:54:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce disable messages even when getting mail
In-Reply-To: <0e2dcd07a656eb7e45d3db4042f0a373@dpss.bz>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512210754450796f1364809@msapiro>

Dave B wrote:
>
>The log does show that bounces are being recorded for my address. It 
>shows the bounce message and score and then shows that account was 
>disabled. There are also several (10 - 20) entries per list per day 
>stating that address had received a bounce for that day and also 
>several entries about receiving residual bounces.


So bounce processing is working as it should, and the issue is why are
all these bounces being returned for your address?


>>> Do you have the list's bounce_notify_owner_on_disable set to yes, and
>>> if so does the owner receive a disable notification with a copy of the
>>> triggering bounce?
>
>It is set to yes. and bounce_notify_owner_on_removal is set to yes.


So the list owner should be getting a notice when the subscription is
disabled. This notice should have the triggering bounce attached to
it. This may help you figure out what is being bounced and why.


Here's one thought. If your deliveries are VERP'd (so that messages to
you have an envelope from something like
listname-bounces+dave=dpss.bz at example.com, and if you have a misguided
MUA that includes the 'envelope from' in a reply to the list, every
time you reply to a list post, you will register a bounce because any
message at all sent to listname-bounces+user=users.domain at list.domain
will register a bounce on listname for user at users.domain.

>(I am out of town for a week or so and only able to check my email 
>every other day so please don't think I am unresponsive and therefore 
>not that interested in figuring this out).


OK

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From xabier at alsernet.es  Wed Dec 21 10:51:31 2005
From: xabier at alsernet.es (Xabier =?iso-8859-1?q?Guiti=E1n?=)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 10:51:31 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Doubt with python and mailman
In-Reply-To: <87zmmzaamc.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <200512161807.16050.xabier@alsernet.es>
	<87zmmzaamc.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <200512211051.32184.xabier@alsernet.es>

Hi again!
	I've updated mailman and python to the latest versions and the problem 
remainded for sometime, but now everything is working fine, and nobody has 
told us nothing about not receiving the mail. So i think everything went ok 
and the info is useful in case something goes wrong in the future. So thanks!

El S?bado 17 Diciembre 2005 18:36, Stephen J. Turnbull escribi?:
> >>>>> "Xabier" == Xabier Guiti?n <xabier at alsernet.es> writes:
>
>     Xabier> 	What happens if... you kill python after 'theorically'
>     Xabier> shutting down the mailman correctly?
>
> The python process stops, dead.<wink>
>
>     Xabier> Is this a problem to the possible mails that were being
>     Xabier> processed? Is it necessary to send them again?
>
> It should not be a problem, and you should not have to resend them.
>
> (1) Posts are saved as individual files, kept in spool (queue)
> directories.  These directories are processed whenever they have
> contents.  This means that those posts that were not being handled
> when Mailman went crazy are safe, and that when you restart Mailman,
> it will process those queues and send them.
>
> (2) The one post being handled when Mailman goes into a loop is at
> risk, but only of being sent twice.
>
> Do you know why python is hanging that way?  You should resolve that
> first of all.

-- 
Xabier Guiti?n 
xabier at alsernet.es
Alsernet 2000 S.L.
http://www.alsernet.es
Tlf: 902 187 187 - Fax: 902 187 188


From raquel at thericehouse.net  Wed Dec 21 19:04:31 2005
From: raquel at thericehouse.net (Raquel Rice)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 10:04:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives
Message-ID: <20051221100431.196ee7cb.raquel@thericehouse.net>

I've searched the FAQ and cannot find the answer to a problem I'm
having.

I have Mailman 2.1.5 installed on a server running Debian Sarge. 
All the lists work wonderfully, except for archives, or more
correctly, access to the archives.  The archives are created but
they cannot be accessed because the appropriate "archive variables"
don't seem to be "picked up" from Defaults.py or mm_cfg.py, or they
don't seem to exist.  Any pointer in the right direction would be
terribly appreciated.  Thanks.

-- 
Raquel
============================================================
A man cannot utter words or sentences without disclosing to
intelligent ears precisely where he stands in life and thought.
  --Ralph Waldo Emerson

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From msapiro at value.net  Wed Dec 21 19:56:58 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 10:56:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives
In-Reply-To: <20051221100431.196ee7cb.raquel@thericehouse.net>
Message-ID: <PC17402005122110565803286e354922@msapiro>

Raquel Rice wrote:
>
>I have Mailman 2.1.5 installed on a server running Debian Sarge.=20
>All the lists work wonderfully, except for archives, or more
>correctly, access to the archives.  The archives are created but
>they cannot be accessed because the appropriate "archive variables"
>don't seem to be "picked up" from Defaults.py or mm_cfg.py, or they
>don't seem to exist.  Any pointer in the right direction would be
>terribly appreciated.  Thanks.

Please give us more information. I.e. what specific URLs don't work? On
what pages do you find these URLs? What are the specific "archive
variables" that aren't "picked up", and where do you expect to see
them, and what do you see instead?

Also note that for any 'pipermail' URL to work, you need to have an
appropriate alias or redirect in your web server.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Dec 21 20:01:47 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 11:01:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to silently,
	automatically reject ALL"implicit destination" messages?
In-Reply-To: <439EB41C.2040401@ecoscentric.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005122111014701256e35484c@msapiro>

Alex Schuilenburg wrote:
>
>Hopefully sometime I will get the time to clean this up to actually make
>this an option, rather than modify the normal behaviour. i.e. The
>options for "require_explicit_destination" become
>     No | Hold for Approval | Reject | Discard
>	
>Does anyone else think this a useful change?

Yes. It was just submitted as an RFE (not by me) at
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1387243&group_id=103&atid=350103>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From raquel at thericehouse.net  Wed Dec 21 20:12:33 2005
From: raquel at thericehouse.net (Raquel Rice)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 11:12:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005122110565803286e354922@msapiro>
References: <20051221100431.196ee7cb.raquel@thericehouse.net>
	<PC17402005122110565803286e354922@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20051221111233.6816fe7e.raquel@thericehouse.net>

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 10:56:58 -0800
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Raquel Rice wrote:
> >
> >I have Mailman 2.1.5 installed on a server running Debian
> >Sarge.=20 All the lists work wonderfully, except for archives, or
> >more correctly, access to the archives.  The archives are created
> >but they cannot be accessed because the appropriate "archive
> >variables" don't seem to be "picked up" from Defaults.py or
> >mm_cfg.py, or they don't seem to exist.  Any pointer in the right
> >direction would be terribly appreciated.  Thanks.
> 
> Please give us more information. I.e. what specific URLs don't
> work? On what pages do you find these URLs? What are the specific
> "archive variables" that aren't "picked up", and where do you
> expect to see them, and what do you see instead?
> 
> Also note that for any 'pipermail' URL to work, you need to have
> an appropriate alias or redirect in your web server.
> 
> -- 

On the list info page,
http://lists.thericehouse.net/mailman/listinfo/myfriends , this is
where the link "MyFriends Archives" points:
     http://lists.thericehouse.net/mailman/private/myfriends/
rather than to:
     http://lists.thericehouse.net/pipermail/myfriends/

>From httpd.conf:
    ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/"
    <Directory "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/">
        AllowOverride None
        Options +ExecCGI
        Order allow,deny
        Allow from all
    </Directory>
    Alias /pipermail/ /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/


-- 
Raquel
============================================================
A man cannot utter words or sentences without disclosing to
intelligent ears precisely where he stands in life and thought.
  --Ralph Waldo Emerson

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From raquel at thericehouse.net  Wed Dec 21 20:25:07 2005
From: raquel at thericehouse.net (Raquel Rice)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 11:25:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives
In-Reply-To: <0B7248A9-EA0C-4AA0-B0E2-DB74A830D313@memphis.edu>
References: <20051221100431.196ee7cb.raquel@thericehouse.net>
	<PC17402005122110565803286e354922@msapiro>
	<20051221111233.6816fe7e.raquel@thericehouse.net>
	<0B7248A9-EA0C-4AA0-B0E2-DB74A830D313@memphis.edu>
Message-ID: <20051221112507.74001a9b.raquel@thericehouse.net>

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 13:19:21 -0600
Dan Phillips <dhphllps at memphis.edu> wrote:

> 
> On Dec 21, 2005, at 1:12 PM, Raquel Rice wrote:
> > On the list info page,
> > http://lists.thericehouse.net/mailman/listinfo/myfriends , this
> > is where the link "MyFriends Archives" points:
> >      http://lists.thericehouse.net/mailman/private/myfriends/
> > rather than to:
> >      http://lists.thericehouse.net/pipermail/myfriends/
> >
> >> From httpd.conf:
> >     ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/"
> >     <Directory "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/">
> >         AllowOverride None
> >         Options +ExecCGI
> >         Order allow,deny
> >         Allow from all
> >     </Directory>
> >     Alias /pipermail/ /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/
> >
> 
> This is correct for private archives. To set them to public (and
> give   the RUL you're expecting), go to
> http://lists.thericehouse.net/  mailman/admin/myfriends/archive
> and select the "public" radio button   under archiving options.
> 
> Dan

But these were supposed to be private archives.

-- 
Raquel
============================================================
A man cannot utter words or sentences without disclosing to
intelligent ears precisely where he stands in life and thought.
  --Ralph Waldo Emerson

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From raquel at thericehouse.net  Wed Dec 21 20:31:27 2005
From: raquel at thericehouse.net (Raquel Rice)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 11:31:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives
In-Reply-To: <0B7248A9-EA0C-4AA0-B0E2-DB74A830D313@memphis.edu>
References: <20051221100431.196ee7cb.raquel@thericehouse.net>
	<PC17402005122110565803286e354922@msapiro>
	<20051221111233.6816fe7e.raquel@thericehouse.net>
	<0B7248A9-EA0C-4AA0-B0E2-DB74A830D313@memphis.edu>
Message-ID: <20051221113127.56df4b2c.raquel@thericehouse.net>

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 13:19:21 -0600
Dan Phillips <dhphllps at memphis.edu> wrote:

> 
> On Dec 21, 2005, at 1:12 PM, Raquel Rice wrote:
> > On the list info page,
> > http://lists.thericehouse.net/mailman/listinfo/myfriends , this
> > is where the link "MyFriends Archives" points:
> >      http://lists.thericehouse.net/mailman/private/myfriends/
> > rather than to:
> >      http://lists.thericehouse.net/pipermail/myfriends/
> >
> >> From httpd.conf:
<snip>
> >     Alias /pipermail/ /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/
> >
> 
> This is correct for private archives. To set them to public (and
> give   the RUL you're expecting), go to
> http://lists.thericehouse.net/  mailman/admin/myfriends/archive
> and select the "public" radio button   under archiving options.
> 
> Dan

>From what I can see, the problem isn't in httpd.conf because the
proper URL, including "/pipermail/" isn't being sent to the page. 
Looking at Defaults.py, I see this variable set:
     PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL =
'http://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s'
But I see nothing set for a private archive.  Is there such a
variable for a private archive?  If so, what is it?  Or am I waaaaay
off-base?

-- 
Raquel
============================================================
A man cannot utter words or sentences without disclosing to
intelligent ears precisely where he stands in life and thought.
  --Ralph Waldo Emerson

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From msapiro at value.net  Wed Dec 21 20:42:21 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 11:42:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives
In-Reply-To: <20051221111233.6816fe7e.raquel@thericehouse.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512211142210140b9d7b781@msapiro>

Raquel Rice wrote:
>
>On the list info page,
>http://lists.thericehouse.net/mailman/listinfo/myfriends , this is
>where the link "MyFriends Archives" points:
>     http://lists.thericehouse.net/mailman/private/myfriends/
>rather than to:
>     http://lists.thericehouse.net/pipermail/myfriends/


If you want the archives to be public, you should set archive_private
to 'public' on the list's Archiving Options page. Then you will get
the second link rather than the first.


>>From httpd.conf:
<snip>
>    Alias /pipermail/ /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/

This Alias should be

    Alias /pipermail/ /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/

Otherwise, you are allowing access to private archives without
validation via the pipermail URL.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Dec 21 20:50:10 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 11:50:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives
In-Reply-To: <20051221112507.74001a9b.raquel@thericehouse.net>
Message-ID: <PC174020051221115010000011a59d0a@msapiro>

Raquel Rice wrote:
>
>But these were supposed to be private archives.

If the archives are supposed to be private, you should be accessing
them via the
<http://lists.thericehouse.net/mailman/private/myfriends/> url and not
via the <http://lists.thericehouse.net/pipermail/myfriends/> link
which is ONLY for public archives.

As I said in my other reply, by aliasing 'pipermail' to the 'private'
directory rather than 'public', you are enabling access to all your
archives without going through private archive validation.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From raquel at thericehouse.net  Wed Dec 21 20:57:42 2005
From: raquel at thericehouse.net (Raquel Rice)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 11:57:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives
In-Reply-To: <PC174020051221115010000011a59d0a@msapiro>
References: <20051221112507.74001a9b.raquel@thericehouse.net>
	<PC174020051221115010000011a59d0a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20051221115742.06115286.raquel@thericehouse.net>

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 11:50:10 -0800
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Raquel Rice wrote:
> >
> >But these were supposed to be private archives.
> 
> If the archives are supposed to be private, you should be
> accessing them via the
> <http://lists.thericehouse.net/mailman/private/myfriends/> url and
> not via the <http://lists.thericehouse.net/pipermail/myfriends/>
> link which is ONLY for public archives.
> 
> As I said in my other reply, by aliasing 'pipermail' to the
> 'private' directory rather than 'public', you are enabling access
> to all your archives without going through private archive
> validation.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro

And therein lies the problem.  The problem is that the URL
http://lists.thericehouse.net/mailman/private/myfriends/ doesn't go
anywhere.  All I get is my web server 404 page.

-- 
Raquel
============================================================
A man cannot utter words or sentences without disclosing to
intelligent ears precisely where he stands in life and thought.
  --Ralph Waldo Emerson

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From raquel at thericehouse.net  Wed Dec 21 20:58:53 2005
From: raquel at thericehouse.net (Raquel Rice)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 11:58:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives
In-Reply-To: <D5DE84C5-4BA9-4BF9-8281-5CD78F4598EC@memphis.edu>
References: <20051221100431.196ee7cb.raquel@thericehouse.net>
	<PC17402005122110565803286e354922@msapiro>
	<20051221111233.6816fe7e.raquel@thericehouse.net>
	<0B7248A9-EA0C-4AA0-B0E2-DB74A830D313@memphis.edu>
	<20051221113127.56df4b2c.raquel@thericehouse.net>
	<D5DE84C5-4BA9-4BF9-8281-5CD78F4598EC@memphis.edu>
Message-ID: <20051221115853.50250acf.raquel@thericehouse.net>

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 13:51:14 -0600
Dan Phillips <dhphllps at memphis.edu> wrote:

> 
> http://lists.thericehouse.net/mailman/private/myfriends/ IS the  
> correct URL for private archives.
> 
> Dan

And that's the problem.  It goes nowhere.

-- 
Raquel
============================================================
A man cannot utter words or sentences without disclosing to
intelligent ears precisely where he stands in life and thought.
  --Ralph Waldo Emerson

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From msapiro at value.net  Wed Dec 21 21:18:35 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 12:18:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives
In-Reply-To: <20051221115742.06115286.raquel@thericehouse.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512211218350890b9d7ba7d@msapiro>

Raquel Rice wrote:
>
>And therein lies the problem.  The problem is that the URL
>http://lists.thericehouse.net/mailman/private/myfriends/ doesn't go
>anywhere.  All I get is my web server 404 page.

Well, I don't get exactly that, but I see something is wrong.

If I go to <http://lists.thericehouse.net/pipermail/myfriends/>, I get
your (currently empty archive). This is not what you want - you want
the archive to be private so I go to the private archive validation
page. Thus, you MUST change your 'pipermail' alias to point to the
'public' directory.

If I go to <http://lists.thericehouse.net/mailman/private/myfriends/> I
get redirected to <http://dev.thericehouse.net/offline.html> which is
clearly not right. I should go to the cgi-bin/private wrapper.

However, if I go to
<http://lists.thericehouse.net/mailman/listinfo/myfriends/> or
<http://lists.thericehouse.net/mailman/admin/myfriends/> I get the
expected listinfo and admin login pages so the cgi-bin wrappers are
working in general.

So, do you have a 'private' wrapper in your /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/
directory? If not, it should be there. If so, and if there's nothing
mangled about it or its permissions, there must be something in your
Apache config that's intercepting this URL and preventing it from
working as it should.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From raquel at thericehouse.net  Wed Dec 21 21:23:07 2005
From: raquel at thericehouse.net (Raquel Rice)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 12:23:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200512211218350890b9d7ba7d@msapiro>
References: <20051221115742.06115286.raquel@thericehouse.net>
	<PC1740200512211218350890b9d7ba7d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20051221122307.04fee520.raquel@thericehouse.net>

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 12:18:35 -0800
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Raquel Rice wrote:
> >
> >And therein lies the problem.  The problem is that the URL
> >http://lists.thericehouse.net/mailman/private/myfriends/ doesn't
> >go anywhere.  All I get is my web server 404 page.
> 
> Well, I don't get exactly that, but I see something is wrong.
> 
> If I go to <http://lists.thericehouse.net/pipermail/myfriends/>, I
> get your (currently empty archive). This is not what you want -
> you want the archive to be private so I go to the private archive
> validation page. Thus, you MUST change your 'pipermail' alias to
> point to the 'public' directory.
> 
> If I go to
> <http://lists.thericehouse.net/mailman/private/myfriends/> I get
> redirected to <http://dev.thericehouse.net/offline.html> which is
> clearly not right. I should go to the cgi-bin/private wrapper.
> 
> However, if I go to
> <http://lists.thericehouse.net/mailman/listinfo/myfriends/> or
> <http://lists.thericehouse.net/mailman/admin/myfriends/> I get the
> expected listinfo and admin login pages so the cgi-bin wrappers
> are working in general.
> 
> So, do you have a 'private' wrapper in your
> /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/ directory? If not, it should be there.
> If so, and if there's nothing mangled about it or its permissions,
> there must be something in your Apache config that's intercepting
> this URL and preventing it from working as it should.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro 

I do have a file named "private.bad" in the cgi-bin directory.  I
have no idea why it's named that way.  (in other words, I didn't do
it)

-- 
Raquel
============================================================
All life is an experiment. The more experiments you make the better.
  --Ralph Waldo Emerson

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From he at reclaimedcomputers.ca  Wed Dec 21 21:23:03 2005
From: he at reclaimedcomputers.ca (Hugh Esco)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 12:23:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives
In-Reply-To: <20051221122307.04fee520.raquel@thericehouse.net>
References: <20051221115742.06115286.raquel@thericehouse.net>
	<PC1740200512211218350890b9d7ba7d@msapiro>
	<20051221122307.04fee520.raquel@thericehouse.net>
Message-ID: <20051221122303.3c5b375f.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>

Try: 
	cp cgi-bin/private.bad cgi-bin/private
	edit your apache config to read: 
	Alias /pipermail/ /usr/local/mailman/archives/
	not what you now have pointing directly to the private/ subdirectory.
	restart apache 

then test again.  

-- Hugh 

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 12:23:07 -0800
Raquel Rice <raquel at thericehouse.net> wrote:
> I do have a file named "private.bad" in the cgi-bin directory.  I
> have no idea why it's named that way.  (in other words, I didn't do
> it)
> 
> -- 
> Raquel
> ============================================================
> All life is an experiment. The more experiments you make the better.
>   --Ralph Waldo Emerson

--
RCK Computer Services 
http://reclaimedcomputers.ca/



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Dec 21 21:38:13 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 12:38:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives
In-Reply-To: <20051221122307.04fee520.raquel@thericehouse.net>
Message-ID: <PC174020051221123813095352b0cee6@msapiro>

Raquel Rice wrote:
>
>I do have a file named "private.bad" in the cgi-bin directory.  I
>have no idea why it's named that way.  (in other words, I didn't do
>it)

How did you install Mailman? If you installed from source and you still
have the directory you ran configure and make in, what is in the src/
sub-directory? And were there any errors from 'make install'?

You could just try running

make install > make.log

(it shouldn't hurt to do it again) so that you see only errors and
warnings.

If you didn't install from source, of course this doesn't help.

Also, is the modification date on private.bad the same as the others in
cgi-bin? If there is a 'private' in the src/ directory, how does it
compare to 'private.bad'.

You could just try

mv private.bad private

and see what happens.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Dec 21 21:44:22 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 12:44:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives
In-Reply-To: <20051221122303.3c5b375f.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
Message-ID: <PC174020051221124422087552b0cea1@msapiro>

Hugh Esco wrote:
>	edit your apache config to read: 
>	Alias /pipermail/ /usr/local/mailman/archives/
>	not what you now have pointing directly to the private/ subdirectory.

It needs to be

	Alias /pipermail/ /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/

not

	Alias /pipermail/ /usr/local/mailman/archives/

unless you've changed PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL in mm_cfg.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From raquel at thericehouse.net  Wed Dec 21 21:48:26 2005
From: raquel at thericehouse.net (Raquel Rice)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 12:48:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives
In-Reply-To: <PC174020051221123813095352b0cee6@msapiro>
References: <20051221122307.04fee520.raquel@thericehouse.net>
	<PC174020051221123813095352b0cee6@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20051221124826.28eb87e6.raquel@thericehouse.net>

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 12:38:13 -0800
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Raquel Rice wrote:
> >
> >I do have a file named "private.bad" in the cgi-bin directory.  I
> >have no idea why it's named that way.  (in other words, I didn't
> >do it)
> 
> How did you install Mailman? If you installed from source and you
> still have the directory you ran configure and make in, what is in
> the src/ sub-directory? And were there any errors from 'make
> install'?
> 
> You could just try running
> 
> make install > make.log
> 
> (it shouldn't hurt to do it again) so that you see only errors and
> warnings.
> 
> If you didn't install from source, of course this doesn't help.
> 
> Also, is the modification date on private.bad the same as the
> others in cgi-bin? If there is a 'private' in the src/ directory,
> how does it compare to 'private.bad'.
> 
> You could just try
> 
> mv private.bad private
> 
> and see what happens.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro 

This is installed on Debian Sarge, from the package list.  All the
files in the cgi-bin have the same mod date & time.  I believe that
it's the compiled code (which probably means the maintainer) thought
there was a problem with "private"?  There doesn't seem to be any
package documentation (README files, change logs, etc) installed
with it either.  It seems to me that the problem lies with the
Debian maintainer of Mailman.

Thank you for helping me to see past the symptoms.

I wonder what would happen if I just renamed "private.bad" to
"private"?

-- 
Raquel
============================================================
All life is an experiment. The more experiments you make the better.
  --Ralph Waldo Emerson

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From msapiro at value.net  Wed Dec 21 22:09:20 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 13:09:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives
In-Reply-To: <20051221124826.28eb87e6.raquel@thericehouse.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512211309200843c7714ebf@msapiro>

Raquel Rice wrote:
 a 'private' in the src/ directory,
>> how does it compare to 'private.bad'.
>>=20
>> You could just try
>>=20
>> mv private.bad private
>>=20
>> and see what happens.
>>=20
>> --=20
>> Mark Sapiro=20
>
>It seems to me that the problem lies with the
>Debian maintainer of Mailman.


Yes, it seems so. For more insight on why this might be the case, see
the notes about CAN-2005-0202 at <http://www.list.org/security.html>.


>Thank you for helping me to see past the symptoms.
>
>I wonder what would happen if I just renamed "private.bad" to
>"private"?

That's what I was suggesting -

>> You could just try
>>
>> mv private.bad private
>>
>> and see what happens.

I think it will probably work.

You probably should look at the patch at
http://www.list.org/CAN-2005-0202.txt and at your
Mailman/Cgi/private.py file to see if you have this vulnerability in
your Mailman and either patch the file or download the Mailman 2.1.6
version from
<http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/*checkout*/mailman/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/private.py?rev=2.16.2.3>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mailman at callahanpro.com  Wed Dec 21 21:52:10 2005
From: mailman at callahanpro.com (Kevin Callahan)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 15:52:10 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help: web interface broken "Mailman Administrative
	Database Error"
Message-ID: <FAD28BF6-3885-4466-9125-B50D332EB778@callahanpro.com>

Hello All,

This is my first post and I'm new to the list; apologies if this has  
been addressed already, though I didn't find any references in the  
archives or via google.

Here's the issue. I'm administrating 9 domains on a Verio VPS. Each  
domain has its own install of Mailman and have been running  
flawlessly for months. Last night, the physical server was taken down  
for a memory upgrade; today 6 of the 9 domains no longer list email  
lists at http://domain.tld/mailman/ or http://domain.tld/mailman/admin/

The lists still seem to be working, and the bin/check_db and bin/ 
check_perms both run fine. All other functionalities seem to be  
intact; I can add and remove members, list the lists, etc all on the  
command line, though the web interface is just broken in that it  
states "There currently are no publicly-advertised Mailman  mailing  
lists on domain.tld". I've checked the config.pck files and  
advertising is set to 1.

I'm at a loss of where to look next; any suggestions are *very*  
appreciated.

Thanks!

Kevin Callahan



From cwieland at uci.edu  Wed Dec 21 22:02:04 2005
From: cwieland at uci.edu (Con Wieland)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 13:02:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman watchdog - status report
Message-ID: <4F21B3F4-0236-41AC-ACD5-5EDB1A2CB96C@uci.edu>

Hello,

I recently had some (more) problem's that Mark Shapiro helped me out  
with. In that exchange I asked about a watchdog type program to help  
in early problem detection. Mark  pointed me to:

Brad's "daily status report"
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php? 
func=detail&aid=1123383&group_id=103&atid=300103>

This looks like exactly what I've been looking for and since I hadn't  
found it on my own I thought it would be helpful to share with the  
list, figuring I'm not the only one that hasn't seen it before. I  
would even suggest including it with the mailman distribution.

And let me take a minute to Thank all you folks that take the time to  
'lend a hand'.   I for one can't thank you all enough. You've pulled  
my tail out of the fire more than once. I'm sure there are a few  
others as well......

Happy Holidays to all

Con Wieland
Network and Academic Computing Services
University of California at Irvine


From webster at lexmark.com  Wed Dec 21 22:36:16 2005
From: webster at lexmark.com (webster at lexmark.com)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 16:36:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [mailman-users] receiving list mail from account to
 which mail cannot be delivered
Message-ID: <OF082D9DB7.25BB2644-ON852570DE.00686228-852570DE.0076EF90@lexmark.com>

So, I have a made-up 'bot' account which needs to send e-mail to some of 
my lists, but any e-mail delivered to its address will bounce.

I see two ways to do this:
1)  Make it a list member with 'nomail' checked.
2)  When this account first tried to send e-mail to a list, it was not a 
member, the note was held, & the moderator was notified.  On the 
moderators html page (/admindb/), I can check the box 'Add ... sender' & 
select the radio button 'Accepts' .

So, now a few questions:
1)  Can/How #2 be done before-hand (before the e-mail is held because the 
sender is not a member of the list), on the website ?
2)  related to #1:  How can this 'accept this address as sender' be undone 
?
3)  & most importantly:  Is there a way to make this default for all new 
[created] lists ?  Can I set some 'default' so that a specified e-mail 
address is either accepted as a sender without being a member, or make it 
a member which doesn't receive mail ('nomail'), for all new lists at their 
creation ?

Thanks.


Gary R. Webster



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Dec 21 23:00:06 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 14:00:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help: web interface broken "Mailman
	AdministrativeDatabase Error"
In-Reply-To: <FAD28BF6-3885-4466-9125-B50D332EB778@callahanpro.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512211400060015c2b898f5@msapiro>

Kevin Callahan wrote:
>
>Here's the issue. I'm administrating 9 domains on a Verio VPS. Each  
>domain has its own install of Mailman and have been running  
>flawlessly for months. Last night, the physical server was taken down  
>for a memory upgrade; today 6 of the 9 domains no longer list email  
>lists at http://domain.tld/mailman/ or http://domain.tld/mailman/admin/

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.062.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From he at reclaimedcomputers.ca  Wed Dec 21 22:57:42 2005
From: he at reclaimedcomputers.ca (Hugh Esco)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 13:57:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can root start qrunners? backups and disaster
	recovery ???s
Message-ID: <20051221135742.77398b84.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>

Hello all:  

Thanks (particularly Mr. Sapiro) for the help yesterday.  

I'm working on a server which is expected to host multiple instances of mailman in the next week or so.  In the interest of privilege separation, each instance is being built to run as a distinct system user, specific to that instance of the mailman installation, but distinct from each other.  

I just debugged an issue which had stacked up mail in the mta's que for forty-some hours before it was caught (yes, I'm checking out this tracker package described in a message a moment or so ago).  In the end, what it took was touch .../.../mailman/data/virtual-mailman to create a file being sought by the mta, then restarting the qrunners which had all failed for some reason.  

I am unfamiliar with gentoo, being used by our host server, but am making progress in figuring it out.  Apparently there is a file somewhere in /etc which does what I'm used to having Debian do with /etc/init.d scripts and runlevels.  

I want to write a perl or shell script to occasionally check that the qrunners are still running and if they are not, to restart them.  (I can't afford downtime like this).  My question is this.  Since each instance uses a distinct uid and gid, is it possible to have root handle this task in its crontab?  Or am I going to actually have to su - to each mailman user involved to restart the qrunners, or to install crontabs for each that will handle this job?  

One other issue, while we're on the subject of disaster recovery, which files and directories do I need to include in my daily back-ups?  And can anyone point me to a how-to that might describe how to restore from such backups should the unthinkable ever happen?  

-- Hugh Esco 

-- 
RCK Computer Services 
http://reclaimedcomputers.ca/


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Dec 21 23:25:28 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 14:25:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help: web interface broken
	"MailmanAdministrativeDatabase Error"
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200512211400060015c2b898f5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC17402005122114252806406fa367dc@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Kevin Callahan wrote:
>>
>>Here's the issue. I'm administrating 9 domains on a Verio VPS. Each  
>>domain has its own install of Mailman and have been running  
>>flawlessly for months. Last night, the physical server was taken down  
>>for a memory upgrade; today 6 of the 9 domains no longer list email  
>>lists at http://domain.tld/mailman/ or http://domain.tld/mailman/admin/
>
>See
><http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.062.htp>

This may have been a bit hasty. Are you saying that the lists just
don't appear on the overview for the domain or that you are receiving
the "Mailman Administrative Database Error" "No such list" if you try
to go to the admindb page for the list.

The latter is inconsistent with lists "working" You say you can see the
lists and add and remove members from the command line. Do you see the
"Administrative Database Error" if you go to
<http://domain.tld/mailman/admindb/listname> for a valid listname?
What happens if you go to <http://domain.tld/mailman/admin/listname>
or <http://domain.tld/mailman/listinfo/listname>?

If the problem is just that the lists don't appear on the overview
pages, then the above FAQ applies. If the other things give errors,
then there's something else wrong.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Dec 21 23:56:16 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 14:56:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can root start qrunners? backups and
	disasterrecovery ???s
In-Reply-To: <20051221135742.77398b84.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512211456160906910673fa@msapiro>

Hugh Esco wrote:
>
>I want to write a perl or shell script to occasionally check that the qrunners are still running and if they are not, to restart them.  (I can't afford downtime like this).  My question is this.  Since each instance uses a distinct uid and gid, is it possible to have root handle this task in its crontab?  Or am I going to actually have to su - to each mailman user involved to restart the qrunners, or to install crontabs for each that will handle this job?  


The standard bin/mailmanctl (of which you will have one per instance)
when run as root will set the user and group of itself and its child
qrunners to the configured user and group for that instance (actually
MAILMAN_USER and MAILMAN_GROUP from that instance's
Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py).

So yes, you can run it as root.

Read the whole thread starting at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-May/044888.html>
for more information, and see
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1208685&group_id=103&atid=300103>
for the patch mentioned in that thread.


>One other issue, while we're on the subject of disaster recovery, which files and directories do I need to include in my daily back-ups?  And can anyone point me to a how-to that might describe how to restore from such backups should the unthinkable ever happen?  


You should be able to find lots on this in the archives of this list.
You absolutely need the lists/ and archives/ directories. The data/
directory contains held messages waiting moderator/administrator
approval and also the site passwords and queued, unprocessed bounces.

qfiles/ contains the current queues, although restoring those (except
maybe for 'shunt') is problematic as anything they contain will
probably have been processed by the time of the disaster/restore.
locks/ contains the current lockfiles and would almost certainly be
not valid by the time of any restore.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ross at lug.udel.edu  Wed Dec 21 23:40:31 2005
From: ross at lug.udel.edu (Ross Vandegrift)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 17:40:31 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Large mailing lists
Message-ID: <20051221224031.GB8890@lug.udel.edu>

Hello everyone,

I've got some questions on a mailman server that's currently
performing non-optimally.

The server has four lists of about 200,000 recipients each.  They are
announce-only subscription lists that receive an occasional post.
Despite being low traffic, we have some consistency issues.

1) Organization: the current setup is designed so that a post to the
list does not generate overwhelming amounts of traffic at once.  The
list owner posts to each list spaced out by a few hours.

Does a setup like this give any real benefit, or just cause headaches?
Should we consider cutting up the lists further?

2) Recipient expansion: Currently, Mailman is running it's default
recipient expansion to postfix, which sends via SMTP.  Since the
postfix server only accepts mail locally, I have considered making
these changes:
	a) Remove any recipient restrictions from postfix smtpd
	b) Set Mailman to send a single message with all recipients
	c) Set Postfix to limit outgoing messages to <20 recipients

The goal of this is two fold:
	a) We have far more postfix expertise in-house than Mailman.
When there is an issue with Mailman, it's hard to solve.  We've got
more people capable of solving issues at the MTA level.
	b) Postfix keeps logs for each outgoing message, giving us an
easy way to keep track of a message that is being sent.

Does anyone see any pros/cons with this?

3) Comparison: Is anyone else running lists this large?  I've found
some list server usage surveys online, but most of them have "30,000
and above" as their largest class of addresses.

Thanks for the help!

-- 
Ross Vandegrift
ross at lug.udel.edu

"The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who
make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians
have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine
man in the bonds of Hell."
	--St. Augustine, De Genesi ad Litteram, Book II, xviii, 37


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec 22 00:19:23 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 15:19:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [mailman-users] receiving list mail from
	account towhich mail cannot be delivered
In-Reply-To: <OF082D9DB7.25BB2644-ON852570DE.00686228-852570DE.0076EF90@lexmark.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512211519230250991dacf1@msapiro>

webster at lexmark.com wrote:
>
>I see two ways to do this:
>1)  Make it a list member with 'nomail' checked.
>2)  When this account first tried to send e-mail to a list, it was not a 
>member, the note was held, & the moderator was notified.  On the 
>moderators html page (/admindb/), I can check the box 'Add ... sender' & 
>select the radio button 'Accepts' .
>
>So, now a few questions:
>1)  Can/How #2 be done before-hand (before the e-mail is held because the 
>sender is not a member of the list), on the website ?
>2)  related to #1:  How can this 'accept this address as sender' be undone 
>?


For both 1 and 2 go to the admin Privacy options...->Sender filters
page and look at the Non-member filters.


>3)  & most importantly:  Is there a way to make this default for all new 
>[created] lists ?  Can I set some 'default' so that a specified e-mail 
>address is either accepted as a sender without being a member, or make it 
>a member which doesn't receive mail ('nomail'), for all new lists at their 
>creation ?


No. You can set

DEFAULT_GENERIC_NONMEMBER_ACTION = 0

in mm_cfg.py, to accept posts from all non-members by default until you
change it, but this isn't what you want.

You could do something like the following:

Create a file containing the one line

accept_these_nonmembers = ['the_bot at example.com']

Then you could create a shell script similar to

#!/bin/sh
bin/newlist $1
bin/config_list -i path/to/file/above $1

and use that to create lists. I can't think of a similar way to do this
if you want to create lists from the web.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From elvisfern at gmail.com  Thu Dec 22 00:54:42 2005
From: elvisfern at gmail.com (Elvis Fernandes)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 15:54:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Create mail list which user cannot un-subscribe
Message-ID: <5b1c0dc50512211554y7e5bf39fva7eb4bdadbe28f10@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I am trying to create a mail list where users DO NOT have the choice to
un-subscribe.
Is there a way that this can be accomplished in mailman?

Any help is appreciated.

Regards
Elvis


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec 22 01:41:15 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 16:41:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Create mail list which user cannot un-subscribe
In-Reply-To: <5b1c0dc50512211554y7e5bf39fva7eb4bdadbe28f10@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020051221164115065611a59f9f@msapiro>

Elvis Fernandes wrote:
>
>I am trying to create a mail list where users DO NOT have the choice to
>un-subscribe.
>Is there a way that this can be accomplished in mailman?

Admin->Privacy options...->Subscription rules->unsubscribe_policy = Yes

unsubscribe_policy (privacy): Is the list moderator's approval required
for unsubscription requests? (No is recommended)

When members want to leave a list, they will make an unsubscription
request, either via the web or via email. Normally it is best for you
to allow open unsubscriptions so that users can easily remove
themselves from mailing lists (they get really upset if they can't get
off lists!).

For some lists though, you may want to impose moderator approval before
an unsubscription request is processed. Examples of such lists include
a corporate mailing list that all employees are required to be members
of.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From raquel at thericehouse.net  Thu Dec 22 02:10:03 2005
From: raquel at thericehouse.net (Raquel Rice)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 17:10:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [FIXED] Re:  Archives
In-Reply-To: <20051221100431.196ee7cb.raquel@thericehouse.net>
References: <20051221100431.196ee7cb.raquel@thericehouse.net>
Message-ID: <20051221171003.0c9cd87a.raquel@thericehouse.net>

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 10:04:31 -0800
Raquel Rice <raquel at thericehouse.net> wrote:

> I've searched the FAQ and cannot find the answer to a problem I'm
> having.
> 
> I have Mailman 2.1.5 installed on a server running Debian Sarge. 
> All the lists work wonderfully, except for archives, or more
> correctly, access to the archives.  The archives are created but
> they cannot be accessed because the appropriate "archive
> variables" don't seem to be "picked up" from Defaults.py or
> mm_cfg.py, or they don't seem to exist.  Any pointer in the right
> direction would be terribly appreciated.  Thanks.
> 
> -- 
> Raquel

Thank you for your help, Mark and Dan.  After I got to poking
around, I realized that it wasn't a Debian package install.  So
installed a new version and got rid of the old installation. 
Everything seems to be working well now.  Thanks again!

-- 
Raquel
============================================================
All life is an experiment. The more experiments you make the better.
  --Ralph Waldo Emerson

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From Bill.Costa at unh.edu  Wed Dec 21 18:48:54 2005
From: Bill.Costa at unh.edu (Bill.Costa at unh.edu)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 12:48:54 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using mailman for one-time use special demographic
	lists...
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0512211220140.17037@verse.unh.edu>



Dear mailman Folks,

We're planning on moving off our our creaky old ListProc MLM and
moving to something with a web interface and an active community.
I'm seriously looking at mailman as future MLM for all our
mailing lists (~600).

I was hoping somebody could describe, in broad arm-waving terms,
how Mailman could be used as a back-end for doing mailings to
one-time use distribution lists.  Here's the scenario:

    The sender will identify the desired demographic, say "left
    handed liberal arts majors with blue eyes", by creating an SQL
    WHERE clause that selects those folks from our Student
    Information System.  (We use a commercial product called
    Banner that sits on an Oracle DB engine.)

    So what I'll have to work with are unique user IDs which I can
    then turn into a set names and e-mail addresses that exist
    within our various e-mail and alias systems.  And of course
    I'll be handed a message to be distributed and the e-mail
    address of the sender.  After this particular list is built
    and the message has been sent, that particular demographic may
    not ever be used again.

    Finally, there is the possibility that I would have the unique
    ID, name, and e-mail address for all possible users stored in
    an LDAP.  But the LDAP would contain no other selector
    information, such as eye color.  :-)   In other words the
    demographic selection process would always have to be made in
    Oracle.

Now as a point of comparison, here is how I currently handle the
above situation with ListProc:

    I have a standing generic list, configured for one-way
    announcements, let's call it "UNH.Announce".  I use a Perl
    script to take the IDs and map them to names/e-mail addresses
    and use that data to build a flat file subscriber list in the
    exact format that ListProc builds for itself.  I then run a
    command that causes ListProc to re-cache the list.  I make the
    sender the temporary owner of the list (to have exclusive
    posting permission), post the message as that user, and then
    flip the ownership back and zero out the list to prevent
    accidental re-use.

I see that Mailman has a mass subscription function, so I could
do something similar using that facility.  But at this point I
don't know enough about mailman to know if there would be a more
proper mailman-ish solution to this problem.

Thanks in advance for any insights.  And to all here's wishing
you a safe and happy holidays.

                                                     ...BC

-- 
+-------------------------[ Bill.Costa at UNH.EDU ]---+
| Bill Costa                                       |  No good
| 1 Leavitt Lane                 Voice:            |   deed...
|   CIS/Telecom -- 2nd Floor       +1-603-862-3056 |
|   University of New Hampshire                    |  Goes
| Durham, NH  03824       USA                      |   unpunished.
+---------------[ http://pubpages.unh.edu/~wfc/ ]--+


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec 22 04:07:01 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 19:07:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using mailman for one-time use special
	demographiclists...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0512211220140.17037@verse.unh.edu>
Message-ID: <PC174020051221190701009311a59d5e@msapiro>

Bill.Costa at unh.edu wrote:
>
>We're planning on moving off our our creaky old ListProc MLM and
>moving to something with a web interface and an active community.
>I'm seriously looking at mailman as future MLM for all our
>mailing lists (~600).
>
>I was hoping somebody could describe, in broad arm-waving terms,
>how Mailman could be used as a back-end for doing mailings to
>one-time use distribution lists.  Here's the scenario:
>
>    The sender will identify the desired demographic, say "left
>    handed liberal arts majors with blue eyes", by creating an SQL
>    WHERE clause that selects those folks from our Student
>    Information System.  (We use a commercial product called
>    Banner that sits on an Oracle DB engine.)


SCT reaches far and wide :-)


>    So what I'll have to work with are unique user IDs which I can
>    then turn into a set names and e-mail addresses that exist
>    within our various e-mail and alias systems.  And of course
>    I'll be handed a message to be distributed and the e-mail
>    address of the sender.  After this particular list is built
>    and the message has been sent, that particular demographic may
>    not ever be used again.
>
>    Finally, there is the possibility that I would have the unique
>    ID, name, and e-mail address for all possible users stored in
>    an LDAP.  But the LDAP would contain no other selector
>    information, such as eye color.  :-)   In other words the
>    demographic selection process would always have to be made in
>    Oracle.
>
>Now as a point of comparison, here is how I currently handle the
>above situation with ListProc:
>
>    I have a standing generic list, configured for one-way
>    announcements, let's call it "UNH.Announce".  I use a Perl
>    script to take the IDs and map them to names/e-mail addresses
>    and use that data to build a flat file subscriber list in the
>    exact format that ListProc builds for itself.  I then run a
>    command that causes ListProc to re-cache the list.  I make the
>    sender the temporary owner of the list (to have exclusive
>    posting permission), post the message as that user, and then
>    flip the ownership back and zero out the list to prevent
>    accidental re-use.
>
>I see that Mailman has a mass subscription function, so I could
>do something similar using that facility.  But at this point I
>don't know enough about mailman to know if there would be a more
>proper mailman-ish solution to this problem.

Here's my $.02. Mailman allows a per list customization mechanism that
can be used to establish a custom MemberAdaptor module for one or more
lists. You could set up your one, standing, generic announcement list
to use an LDAP MemberAdaptor to access the LDAP you refer to above.
The other 599 lists would use Mailman's standard MemberAdaptor.

If you had in addition to email address and whatever else you wanted in
the LDAP, a single flag meaning 'mail this one', then you could make
your selection, flag those records in the LDAP, post to the list and
clear out the LDAP flags.

Both LDAP and MySQL MemberAdaptors exist. See
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=871062&group_id=103&atid=300103>
for LDAP and
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=839386&group_id=103&atid=300103>
for MySQL, although if you're interested in the MySQL MemberAdaptor,
see the threads:

Mysql MemberAdaptor 1.61 and Mailman 2.1.6
and
MysqlMemberships.py [was: Informal "MEP" process, anyone? [was: PHP
Wrappers?]]
which ultimately became just
MysqlMemberships.py

at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2005-October/thread.html>
and
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2005-November/thread.html>

Note also that the LDAP MemberAdaptor referenced above is a "read only"
adaptor from Mailman's side, but this would appear to be fine as you
would be writing the LDAP outside of Mailman anyway. You would
probably have to modify the LDAP MemberAdaptor slightly so that the
flag I refer to above would have meaning 'delivery disabled' if not
set and 'delivery enabled' if set.

Or you could make your own custom MemberAdaptor that could read any
files or query any databases you want. It would only have to implement
a few methods - getMemberCPAddress(member), getRegularMemberKeys() and
getDeliveryStatus(member). getDeliveryStatus(member) could always
return ENABLED unless you wanted to use it as a flag. I think you also
need getMemberOption(...) although it could always return 0 since it
is only used to determine if a poster gets her/his own post.

You could possibly get it to read the SQL selection clause and query
the Oracle database to get the data to build the results.
getRegularMemberKeys() could return a list of ID numbers from the
query, and getMemberCPAddress(member) would return an email address
for an ID number.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ross at lug.udel.edu  Thu Dec 22 04:46:16 2005
From: ross at lug.udel.edu (Ross Vandegrift)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 22:46:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Large mailing lists
In-Reply-To: <20051221224031.GB8890@lug.udel.edu>
References: <20051221224031.GB8890@lug.udel.edu>
Message-ID: <20051222034616.GA11344@lug.udel.edu>

On Wed, Dec 21, 2005 at 05:40:31PM -0500, Ross Vandegrift wrote:
> The server has four lists of about 200,000 recipients each.  They are
> announce-only subscription lists that receive an occasional post.
> Despite being low traffic, we have some consistency issues.

Another question.  Most of the time VirginRunner is at max CPU,
sending address removal notifications.  I have already set the lists
to zero bounce notifications.  Is there a separate config item for
"you have been removed" messages?

One propety of these lists is that there is a high incidence of bad
addresses - the developer of the web front end refuses to do any kind
of validation before they are added to the mailman backend.

So most of the removals are destined for non-existent addresses and
should not be notified.

-- 
Ross Vandegrift
ross at lug.udel.edu

"The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who
make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians
have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine
man in the bonds of Hell."
	--St. Augustine, De Genesi ad Litteram, Book II, xviii, 37


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec 22 05:27:17 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 20:27:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Large mailing lists
In-Reply-To: <20051222034616.GA11344@lug.udel.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512212027170328fc9dce79@msapiro>

Ross Vandegrift wrote:
>
>Another question.  Most of the time VirginRunner is at max CPU,
>sending address removal notifications.  I have already set the lists
>to zero bounce notifications.  Is there a separate config item for
>"you have been removed" messages?

There's no config setting for this. Current code unconditionally
notifies the user who is removed by bounce.

Code in Mailman/Bouncer.py is

    def sendNextNotification(self, member):
        info = self.getBounceInfo(member)
        if info is None:
            return
        reason = self.getDeliveryStatus(member)
        if info.noticesleft <= 0:
            # BAW: Remove them now, with a notification message
            self.ApprovedDeleteMember(
                member, 'disabled address',
                admin_notif=self.bounce_notify_owner_on_removal,
                userack=1)

If you change the last of these lines to

                userack=0)

there will be no notice on any list. If you change the last of these
lines to

                userack=None)

notification will be controlled per list by the list's send_goodbye_msg
setting on the General Options page.

If you make either of these changes, it would be good to change the
comment too.

BTW, I think you have a new record for list size. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.015.htp>.

Also, WRT your other questions, there's not too much on this in the
FAQ, but searching the FAQ wizard
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> for the words performance
and tuning will turn up what there is.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Dec 22 05:26:50 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 22:26:50 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Large mailing lists
In-Reply-To: <20051221224031.GB8890@lug.udel.edu>
References: <20051221224031.GB8890@lug.udel.edu>
Message-ID: <p0620073fbfcfd7a255bf@[192.168.1.100]>

At 5:40 PM -0500 2005-12-21, Ross Vandegrift wrote:

>  I've got some questions on a mailman server that's currently
>  performing non-optimally.

	If you've got a large list, the first thing you need to do is to 
search the FAQ and the archives for the words "performance" and 
"large".

>  1) Organization: the current setup is designed so that a post to the
>  list does not generate overwhelming amounts of traffic at once.  The
>  list owner posts to each list spaced out by a few hours.
>
>  Does a setup like this give any real benefit, or just cause headaches?
>  Should we consider cutting up the lists further?

	One thing you could do is break the list up into multiple 
sub-lists, and then set up larger umbrella lists (whose only 
"subscribers" are the sub-lists).  This will help reduce contention 
for locking the Python "pickle" objects which are used to store the 
current status of the list.  This is likely to help improve your 
performance.

>  2) Recipient expansion: Currently, Mailman is running it's default
>  recipient expansion to postfix, which sends via SMTP.  Since the
>  postfix server only accepts mail locally, I have considered making
>  these changes:
>  	a) Remove any recipient restrictions from postfix smtpd
>  	b) Set Mailman to send a single message with all recipients
>  	c) Set Postfix to limit outgoing messages to <20 recipients

	In this case, "b" is not likely to help you that much.  Again, 
search the FAQ and archives for "performance" for the reasons.

>  The goal of this is two fold:
>  	a) We have far more postfix expertise in-house than Mailman.
>  When there is an issue with Mailman, it's hard to solve.  We've got
>  more people capable of solving issues at the MTA level.

	For a list this large, a lot of your performance issues are going 
to be a result of Mailman and not postfix, and there's just nothing 
you can do to get around that.  Trying to shoe-horn everything into a 
postfix problem is not going to solve your fundamental Mailman 
problems.

>  	b) Postfix keeps logs for each outgoing message, giving us an
>  easy way to keep track of a message that is being sent.

	Mailman logs data for each message, and the logging has gotten 
better with each new version -- 2.1.6 is better than 2.1.5, etc.... 
In your case, I would encourage you to look at the new 2.1.7-beta 
version, and consider giving feedback to Tokio and Mark, which may 
significantly improve the official 2.1.7-release version.

>  3) Comparison: Is anyone else running lists this large?  I've found
>  some list server usage surveys online, but most of them have "30,000
>  and above" as their largest class of addresses.

	You have some of the largest lists I've heard of, but there may 
be larger ones out there.  Certainly, you would do well to check the 
FAQ and the archives.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Dec 22 08:05:05 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 01:05:05 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman watchdog - status report
In-Reply-To: <4F21B3F4-0236-41AC-ACD5-5EDB1A2CB96C@uci.edu>
References: <4F21B3F4-0236-41AC-ACD5-5EDB1A2CB96C@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <p06200741bfd00000cbde@[192.168.1.100]>

At 1:02 PM -0800 2005-12-21, Con Wieland wrote:

>  I recently had some (more) problem's that Mark Shapiro helped me out
>  with. In that exchange I asked about a watchdog type program to help
>  in early problem detection. Mark  pointed me to:
>
>  Brad's "daily status report"
>  <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?
>  func=detail&aid=1123383&group_id=103&atid=300103>

	Wild.  I was sure that this was in the FAQ, but I guess not.

	Anyway, I updated FAQ 1.30 on this topic.  You may be 
particularly interested to pay attention to the information on 
"munin", as well as the information on mmdsr.


	BTW, the FAQ Wizard entries can be edited or created by anyone -- 
it's kind of like a "wiki" in that respect.  So long as you know the 
procedures (which are intentionally slightly vague), anyone can do 
it.  I know that I've probably touched about half the entries in the 
FAQ, and I've added quite a few, but there is a lot of good stuff in 
there from other people too.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Dec 22 08:16:15 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 01:16:15 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using mailman for one-time use special
 demographic lists...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0512211220140.17037@verse.unh.edu>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0512211220140.17037@verse.unh.edu>
Message-ID: <p06200742bfd002655b6d@[192.168.1.100]>

At 12:48 PM -0500 2005-12-21, Bill.Costa at unh.edu wrote:

>  Now as a point of comparison, here is how I currently handle the
>  above situation with ListProc:
>
>      I have a standing generic list, configured for one-way
>      announcements, let's call it "UNH.Announce".  I use a Perl
>      script to take the IDs and map them to names/e-mail addresses
>      and use that data to build a flat file subscriber list in the
>      exact format that ListProc builds for itself.  I then run a
>      command that causes ListProc to re-cache the list.  I make the
>      sender the temporary owner of the list (to have exclusive
>      posting permission), post the message as that user, and then
>      flip the ownership back and zero out the list to prevent
>      accidental re-use.

	You could essentially do the same for Mailman, but keep in mind 
that it is written in Python, not Perl.  So, if you want to do all 
your interfacing into mailman in Perl, you're going to have to be 
calling a lot of Python-language programs via the shell interface.

	As I see it, this subject kind of relates back to FAQ 3.18, in 
that you're trying to do something that MLMs were not really designed 
to do, and you should at least take a serious look at using a real 
CRM program instead of trying to kit-bash something together that 
kinda-semi-sorta works, most of the time -- IMO you'll spend more 
time (and therefore money) trying to maintain the jury-rigged 
kit-bash system than money you would spend on getting a real CRM.


	I think Mark has probably given you a couple of other ideas, if 
you're bound and determined to keep trying to force this square peg 
into a round hole.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Dec 22 08:23:12 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 01:23:12 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Large mailing lists
In-Reply-To: <20051222034616.GA11344@lug.udel.edu>
References: <20051221224031.GB8890@lug.udel.edu>
	<20051222034616.GA11344@lug.udel.edu>
Message-ID: <p06200743bfd00401bc16@[192.168.1.100]>

At 10:46 PM -0500 2005-12-21, Ross Vandegrift wrote:

>  Another question.  Most of the time VirginRunner is at max CPU,
>  sending address removal notifications.  I have already set the lists
>  to zero bounce notifications.  Is there a separate config item for
>  "you have been removed" messages?

	If you split the lists into multiple sublists with a parent 
umbrella list, you should be able to significantly reduce Python 
"pickle" contention when trying to update the mailing list status for 
these removals.  You should be able to process multiple sublists in 
parallel, and you can tune the sublist size for the largest chunks 
which have relatively minimal contention.

	For sites running really large lists but which have otherwise 
applied all the standard performance tuning things within the MTA, I 
think that this is probably one of the biggest additional performance 
enhancement that you can do for Mailman-hosted mailing lists.

>  One propety of these lists is that there is a high incidence of bad
>  addresses - the developer of the web front end refuses to do any kind
>  of validation before they are added to the mailman backend.

	You might want to see if you can get that process improved.  If I 
didn't know better, it would sound to me like you might be running a 
spam house, and I would take a very dim view of that.  If you can 
reduce the amount of garbage going into your system, then you can 
greatly reduce the amount of garbage coming out, and the amount of 
time you spend processing that garbage.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From ben at ahualoa.net  Thu Dec 22 11:08:49 2005
From: ben at ahualoa.net (Ben)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 00:08:49 -1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman under Cygwin - won't add list
In-Reply-To: <PC174020051221065759092133f6e794@msapiro>
Message-ID: <001201c606df$b43c4440$a702a8c0@LittleGuy>

Thanks Mark, the source code change you gave me made it work: I was able
to use newlist, and it completed successfully!  However, when I attempt
to connect to the Admin page (http://localhost/mailman/admin.exe) it
says:

"Bug in Mailman version 2.1.6  We're sorry, we hit a bug! ... the
webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs."

The error log says:
 admin(428):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 591,
in __load
 admin(428):     fp = open(dbfile)
 admin(428): IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/usr/local/mailman/lists/friends/config.pck'

I looked, and found that the file exists, although the permissions look
questionable:
	$ ls -l /usr/local/mailman/lists/friends
	total 4
	-rw-rw----  1 Ben None 3607 Dec 21 23:22 config.pck

I tried running the 'newlist' command as user 'mailman' instead, which
produced the same "bug!" error, even though the user/group was now set
as mailman.mm:
	-rw-rw----  1 mailman mm 3605 Dec 21 23:29 config.pck

I tried explicitly forcing permissions with 'chmod 777 config.pck', and
that made the Admin page work.  So, the "660" permissions are the
problem, not the owner/group.  However, when I tried the Admin page for
the list, I got "We're sorry, we hit a bug!" again:

admin(4088):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 512,
in __save
admin(4088):     fp = open(fname_tmp, 'w')
admin(4088): IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/usr/local/mailman/lists/friends/config.pck.tmp.LittleGuy.4088'

This seems to be a widespread issue with Mailman under Cygwin -
permission don't behave as under Unix, so Mailman chokes easily.  I
don't blame Mailman, I'm sure it's reasonable for it to expect
permissions to behave they way they should.

However, at this point I'm wondering whether the Mailman + Cygwin
combination is workable.  The Mailman website, Manual and FAQ reasonably
state that Mailman "does not currently work on Windows" and "some
source-code level changes are currently necessary to get Mailman working
under Cygwin" and "It probably does not work on Windows, although it's
possible you could get it running on a Cygwin system."

This makes me sad, as I had high hopes, as I cannot find any real
alternative to Mailman in the Windows world, neither free nor
commercial.  All I wanted to do was to create a small mailing list on a
plain XP box, but it's become a week-long ordeal ending in frustration.

I'm wide open to advice, although I suspect "Get a Linux machine" is the
likely response :(  (I do have a Linux box, but this XP box is the
quiet, low-power always-on server machine in our office which runs our
website with Apache wonderfully, hence that's where I must install a
mailing list.)

Thanks,
Ben

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
> 
> Ben wrote:
> >Now, when I try to add a list, I get a python error!
> >IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
> >'/usr/local/mailman/locks/<site>.lock.LittleGuy.2992.0'
> 
> The MailList.Create() method needs to obtain a lock for the 
> create process. Unfortunately, the name of the 'site' lock is 
> not a valid Windows name. Thus on Cygwin, you need to patch 
> MailList.py similarly to
> 
> --- mailman-2.1.6/Mailman/MailList.py	2005-02-15 16:21:41
> +++ mailman-mas/Mailman/MailList.py	2005-10-15 14:29:56
> -            os.path.join(mm_cfg.LOCK_DIR, name or '<site>') '.lock',
> +            os.path.join(mm_cfg.LOCK_DIR, name or '_site_') '.lock',



From ross at lug.udel.edu  Thu Dec 22 15:28:18 2005
From: ross at lug.udel.edu (Ross Vandegrift)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 09:28:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Large mailing lists
In-Reply-To: <p0620073fbfcfd7a255bf@[192.168.1.100]>
References: <20051221224031.GB8890@lug.udel.edu>
	<p0620073fbfcfd7a255bf@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <20051222142817.GA31400@lug.udel.edu>

On Wed, Dec 21, 2005 at 10:26:50PM -0600, Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 5:40 PM -0500 2005-12-21, Ross Vandegrift wrote:
> 
> > I've got some questions on a mailman server that's currently
> > performing non-optimally.
> 
> 	If you've got a large list, the first thing you need to do is to 
> search the FAQ and the archives for the words "performance" and 
> "large".

Yea, I've implemented most of the changes for Mailman and MTA tuning
that I came across.  Kept outgoing SMTP in small chunks, increased the
qrunner lifetimes, and tuned up postfix (which was most of the way
there).

I've also implemented some other postfix configuration to keep queues
from backing up.  As I discovered yesterday, there is an issue with
the server being underpowered, but I'll need to discuss that with our
client.

> 	One thing you could do is break the list up into multiple 
> sub-lists, and then set up larger umbrella lists (whose only 
> "subscribers" are the sub-lists).

I suspected this might be case.  I'm hoping to have this change
implemented later today

> Trying to shoe-horn everything into a 
> postfix problem is not going to solve your fundamental Mailman 
> problems.

Point definitely taken!

> In your case, I would encourage you to look at the new 2.1.7-beta 

Sounds very promising.  Thanks for the tip!

-- 
Ross Vandegrift
ross at lug.udel.edu

"The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who
make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians
have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine
man in the bonds of Hell."
	--St. Augustine, De Genesi ad Litteram, Book II, xviii, 37


From mikeraz at patch.com  Thu Dec 22 15:26:56 2005
From: mikeraz at patch.com (Michael Rasmussen)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 06:26:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] filename too long error - stopping list
Message-ID: <20051222142655.GA3498@patch.com>

I have a list that was sent a file with an attachement with too long a
name.  (See error below) now all mail to the list is being shunted.

the filename listed does not exist on my system.  There is no file on my system with that name.  
The directory /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/rca-l/attachments/20051207/3d04c3a4 is empty.

What do I need to do to resolve this problem?

==========  Error message =====================
Dec 22 06:08:46 2005 (2233) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 36] File name too long: '/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/rca-l/attachments/20051207/3d04c3a4/iso-8859-1QThe_surface_of_the_SunA0_The_sun_has_a_rigid_iron_surfaceiso-8859-1Q_located_under_the_photosphere_that_is_revealed_by_satelliiso-8859-1Qte_imagery.A0_The_solar_surface_sits_beneath_the_suns_viiso-8859-1Qsible_photosphere_and_is_electrically_active..obj'
Dec 22 06:08:46 2005 (2233) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in _dispose
    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in _dopipeline
    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 91, in process
    send_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 132, in send_digests
    send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 306, in send_i18n_digests
    msg = scrubber(mlist, msg)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 265, in process
    url = save_attachment(mlist, part, dir)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 447, in save_attachment
    fp = open(path, 'w')
IOError: [Errno 36] File name too long: '/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/rca-l/attachments/20051207/3d04c3a4/iso-8859-1QThe_surface_of_the_SunA0_The_sun_has_a_rigid_iron_surfaceiso-8859-1Q_located_under_the_photosphere_that_is_revealed_by_satelliiso-8859-1Qte_imagery.A0_The_solar_surface_sits_beneath_the_suns_viiso-8859-1Qsible_photosphere_and_is_electrically_active..obj'

Dec 22 06:08:46 2005 (2233) SHUNTING: 1135258825.4376719+99568bcc1187c910d48aae8b9ae8f68ed3aa643b

==========  Error message =====================
-- 
    Michael Rasmussen, Portland Oregon  
  Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity
        http://www.patch.com/words/
  The fortune cookie says:
Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people.
		-- W. C. Fields



From ross at lug.udel.edu  Thu Dec 22 16:01:13 2005
From: ross at lug.udel.edu (Ross Vandegrift)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 10:01:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Large mailing lists
In-Reply-To: <p06200743bfd00401bc16@[192.168.1.100]>
References: <20051221224031.GB8890@lug.udel.edu>
	<20051222034616.GA11344@lug.udel.edu>
	<p06200743bfd00401bc16@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <20051222150113.GB31400@lug.udel.edu>

On Thu, Dec 22, 2005 at 01:23:12AM -0600, Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 10:46 PM -0500 2005-12-21, Ross Vandegrift wrote:
> > One propety of these lists is that there is a high incidence of bad
> > addresses - the developer of the web front end refuses to do any kind
> > of validation before they are added to the mailman backend.
> 
> 	You might want to see if you can get that process improved.  If I 
> didn't know better, it would sound to me like you might be running a 
> spam house, and I would take a very dim view of that.

I knew things were going to sound like this when I came to the list,
and I do apologize.  I agree 100%.  The issue here is that the server
houses lists for a fairly high-profile television celebrity.  You might
be suprised at the amount of garbage this attracts.  I certainly was.
Especially when the developers get notes from the celebrity about how
the website should work.

I'm working on the web developer to implement some better checks.  It'd
be awesome if when we got a subscription request from a client, some code
made sure they didn't type zop2 at zxcq.qwtz.com.  I'm somewhat hopeful of
Mark's idea to disable notifications as well, but I don't know how
this will fly with the client.

Unfortunately, I just work for the hosting company and don't really
have a lot of pull with celebrity TV personalities or their web
programmers...

-- 
Ross Vandegrift
ross at lug.udel.edu

"The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who
make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians
have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine
man in the bonds of Hell."
	--St. Augustine, De Genesi ad Litteram, Book II, xviii, 37


From chris at westnet.com  Thu Dec 22 16:04:44 2005
From: chris at westnet.com (Christopher X. Candreva)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 10:04:44 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Large mailing lists
In-Reply-To: <20051222150113.GB31400@lug.udel.edu>
References: <20051221224031.GB8890@lug.udel.edu>
	<20051222034616.GA11344@lug.udel.edu>
	<p06200743bfd00401bc16@[192.168.1.100]>
	<20051222150113.GB31400@lug.udel.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.62.0512221003120.26887@westnet.com>

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005, Ross Vandegrift wrote:

> > At 10:46 PM -0500 2005-12-21, Ross Vandegrift wrote:

> I'm working on the web developer to implement some better checks.  It'd
> be awesome if when we got a subscription request from a client, some code
> made sure they didn't type zop2 at zxcq.qwtz.com.  I'm somewhat hopeful of

If he is using perl, the CPAN module Mail::CheckUser does a great job.

> Unfortunately, I just work for the hosting company and don't really
> have a lot of pull with celebrity TV personalities or their web
> programmers...

Presumably you have access to the power switch. :-) (But then I own the 
hosting company and can do that).

Good luck !

-Chris

==========================================================
Chris Candreva  -- chris at westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/


From mikeraz at patch.com  Thu Dec 22 16:21:58 2005
From: mikeraz at patch.com (Michael Rasmussen)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 07:21:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] filename too long error - stopping list
In-Reply-To: <20051222142655.GA3498@patch.com>
References: <20051222142655.GA3498@patch.com>
Message-ID: <20051222152158.GA14240@patch.com>

Update:

I've found the offending message and purged it from the list archives,
purged it from the shunt files, and purged it from everywhere I could
find it. 

Yet the problem persists.  So I'm looking for the temp file/mail area
where the file that contains this attachment may be found.


Michael Rasmussen wrote:
> I have a list that was sent a file with an attachement with too long a
> name.  (See error below) now all mail to the list is being shunted.
> 
> the filename listed does not exist on my system.  There is no file on my system with that name.  
> The directory /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/rca-l/attachments/20051207/3d04c3a4 is empty.
> 
> What do I need to do to resolve this problem?
> 
> ==========  Error message =====================
> Dec 22 06:08:46 2005 (2233) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 36] File name too long: '/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/rca-l/attachments/20051207/3d04c3a4/iso-8859-1QThe_surface_of_the_SunA0_The_sun_has_a_rigid_iron_surfaceiso-8859-1Q_located_under_the_photosphere_that_is_revealed_by_satelliiso-8859-1Qte_imagery.A0_The_solar_surface_sits_beneath_the_suns_viiso-8859-1Qsible_photosphere_and_is_electrically_active..obj'
> Dec 22 06:08:46 2005 (2233) Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
>     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
>     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in _dispose
>     more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in _dopipeline
>     sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 91, in process
>     send_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
>   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 132, in send_digests
>     send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
>   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 306, in send_i18n_digests
>     msg = scrubber(mlist, msg)
>   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 265, in process
>     url = save_attachment(mlist, part, dir)
>   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 447, in save_attachment
>     fp = open(path, 'w')
> IOError: [Errno 36] File name too long: '/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/rca-l/attachments/20051207/3d04c3a4/iso-8859-1QThe_surface_of_the_SunA0_The_sun_has_a_rigid_iron_surfaceiso-8859-1Q_located_under_the_photosphere_that_is_revealed_by_satelliiso-8859-1Qte_imagery.A0_The_solar_surface_sits_beneath_the_suns_viiso-8859-1Qsible_photosphere_and_is_electrically_active..obj'
> 
> Dec 22 06:08:46 2005 (2233) SHUNTING: 1135258825.4376719+99568bcc1187c910d48aae8b9ae8f68ed3aa643b
> 
> ==========  Error message =====================
> -- 
>     Michael Rasmussen, Portland Oregon  
>   Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity
>         http://www.patch.com/words/
>   The fortune cookie says:
> Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people.
> 		-- W. C. Fields
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/mikeraz%40patch.com
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

-- 
    Michael Rasmussen, Portland Oregon  
  Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity
        http://www.patch.com/words/
  The fortune cookie says:
I may not be able to walk, but I drive from a sitting position.



From mikeraz at patch.com  Thu Dec 22 16:40:37 2005
From: mikeraz at patch.com (Michael Rasmussen)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 07:40:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] filename too long error - stopping list
In-Reply-To: <20051222152158.GA14240@patch.com>
References: <20051222142655.GA3498@patch.com>
	<20051222152158.GA14240@patch.com>
Message-ID: <20051222154037.GA14616@patch.com>

Resolved.  The digest keeps a seperate mbox file at 
{MMDIR}lists/LISTNAME/digest.mbox  removing the email from that location 
was the solution to my immediate problem.

This does expose a DOS attack potential for MM lists.  The too long
attachment name needs to be handled in a more graceful manner.

Michael Rasmussen wrote:
> Update:
> 
> I've found the offending message and purged it from the list archives,
> purged it from the shunt files, and purged it from everywhere I could
> find it. 
> 
> Yet the problem persists.  So I'm looking for the temp file/mail area
> where the file that contains this attachment may be found.
> 
> 
> Michael Rasmussen wrote:
> > I have a list that was sent a file with an attachement with too long a
> > name.  (See error below) now all mail to the list is being shunted.
> > 
> > the filename listed does not exist on my system.  There is no file on my system with that name.  
> > The directory /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/rca-l/attachments/20051207/3d04c3a4 is empty.
> > 
> > What do I need to do to resolve this problem?
> > 
> > ==========  Error message =====================
> > Dec 22 06:08:46 2005 (2233) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 36] File name too long: '/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/rca-l/attachments/20051207/3d04c3a4/iso-8859-1QThe_surface_of_the_SunA0_The_sun_has_a_rigid_iron_surfaceiso-8859-1Q_located_under_the_photosphere_that_is_revealed_by_satelliiso-8859-1Qte_imagery.A0_The_solar_surface_sits_beneath_the_suns_viiso-8859-1Qsible_photosphere_and_is_electrically_active..obj'
> > Dec 22 06:08:46 2005 (2233) Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
> >     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
> >   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
> >     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
> >   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in _dispose
> >     more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
> >   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in _dopipeline
> >     sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
> >   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 91, in process
> >     send_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
> >   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 132, in send_digests
> >     send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
> >   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 306, in send_i18n_digests
> >     msg = scrubber(mlist, msg)
> >   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 265, in process
> >     url = save_attachment(mlist, part, dir)
> >   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 447, in save_attachment
> >     fp = open(path, 'w')
> > IOError: [Errno 36] File name too long: '/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/rca-l/attachments/20051207/3d04c3a4/iso-8859-1QThe_surface_of_the_SunA0_The_sun_has_a_rigid_iron_surfaceiso-8859-1Q_located_under_the_photosphere_that_is_revealed_by_satelliiso-8859-1Qte_imagery.A0_The_solar_surface_sits_beneath_the_suns_viiso-8859-1Qsible_photosphere_and_is_electrically_active..obj'
> > 
> > Dec 22 06:08:46 2005 (2233) SHUNTING: 1135258825.4376719+99568bcc1187c910d48aae8b9ae8f68ed3aa643b
> > 
> > ==========  Error message =====================
> > -- 
> >     Michael Rasmussen, Portland Oregon  
> >   Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity
> >         http://www.patch.com/words/
> >   The fortune cookie says:
> > Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people.
> > 		-- W. C. Fields
> > 
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > Mailman-Users mailing list
> > Mailman-Users at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> > Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/mikeraz%40patch.com
> > 
> > Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 
> -- 
>     Michael Rasmussen, Portland Oregon  
>   Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity
>         http://www.patch.com/words/
>   The fortune cookie says:
> I may not be able to walk, but I drive from a sitting position.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/mikeraz%40patch.com
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

-- 
    Michael Rasmussen, Portland Oregon  
  Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity
        http://www.patch.com/words/
  The fortune cookie says:
Don't compare floating point numbers solely for equality.



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Dec 22 18:39:37 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 11:39:37 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Large mailing lists
In-Reply-To: <20051222150113.GB31400@lug.udel.edu>
References: <20051221224031.GB8890@lug.udel.edu>
	<20051222034616.GA11344@lug.udel.edu>
	<p06200743bfd00401bc16@[192.168.1.100]>
	<20051222150113.GB31400@lug.udel.edu>
Message-ID: <p06200745bfd094047cfa@[192.168.1.100]>

At 10:01 AM -0500 2005-12-22, Ross Vandegrift wrote:

>  I knew things were going to sound like this when I came to the list,
>  and I do apologize.  I agree 100%.  The issue here is that the server
>  houses lists for a fairly high-profile television celebrity.  You might
>  be suprised at the amount of garbage this attracts.  I certainly was.
>  Especially when the developers get notes from the celebrity about how
>  the website should work.

	Ahh.  In this case you might want to give me some identifying 
information for your lists, because I updated FAQ 1.15 with the 
information you had posted on the list, and I identified that with 
udel.edu -- I kept wondering if I should ask you about Dr. Mills, and 
whether or not you kept your machines in good time sync.  ;-)

>  I'm working on the web developer to implement some better checks.  It'd
>  be awesome if when we got a subscription request from a client, some code
>  made sure they didn't type zop2 at zxcq.qwtz.com.  I'm somewhat hopeful of
>  Mark's idea to disable notifications as well, but I don't know how
>  this will fly with the client.

	In the Mailman case, the recipients should not be added to the 
list until they confirm their subscription request.  At that point, 
the address should definitely be good, and you shouldn't have 
problems with needing to remove them from the list.

	I think that Christopher X. Candreva has given you a good 
suggestion with regards to validating addresses with a Perl program, 
before adding them to the list.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From rme at grc.nasa.gov  Thu Dec 22 18:32:49 2005
From: rme at grc.nasa.gov (Matt Emerson)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 12:32:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman watchdog - status report
In-Reply-To: <4F21B3F4-0236-41AC-ACD5-5EDB1A2CB96C@uci.edu>
References: <4F21B3F4-0236-41AC-ACD5-5EDB1A2CB96C@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <E30FC5BF-74BD-41BB-8059-51A2997FF8A5@grc.nasa.gov>


On Dec 21, 2005, at 4:02 PM, Con Wieland wrote:

> I recently had some (more) problem's that Mark Shapiro helped me out
> with. In that exchange I asked about a watchdog type program to help
> in early problem detection.

One thing we use here is a script that keeps an eye on the qrunners.

They've died on us for some reason once or twice, so we use this  
script to notify us of the problem.  We run it from cron.

#!/bin/sh
# check-qrunner
# see if mailman's qrunners appear to be running and squawk if
# they're not.

if ps axw | grep -v grep | grep -v check-qrunner | grep qrunner >/dev/ 
null; then :; # life is good
else
         # life is bad.  try to restart the qrunners, and tell someone
         /usr/share/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s start
         worked="did not work";
         if ps axw | grep -v grep | grep qrunner >/dev/null; then
                 worked="worked";
         fi
         echo "Hi.  I am /usr/local/bin/check-qrunners on `hostname`.

The Mailman qrunners seem to have died.  It appears that my
attempt to restart them $worked." | mail -s "mailman qrunners"  
someone at nasa.gov
fi



-- 
Matt Emerson
rme at grc.nasa.gov




From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec 22 19:00:13 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 10:00:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman under Cygwin - won't add list
In-Reply-To: <001201c606df$b43c4440$a702a8c0@LittleGuy>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512221000130984825368c5@msapiro>

Ben wrote:
>
>I tried explicitly forcing permissions with 'chmod 777 config.pck', and
>that made the Admin page work.  So, the "660" permissions are the
>problem, not the owner/group.  However, when I tried the Admin page for
>the list, I got "We're sorry, we hit a bug!" again:
>
>admin(4088):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 512,
>in __save
>admin(4088):     fp = open(fname_tmp, 'w')
>admin(4088): IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
>'/usr/local/mailman/lists/friends/config.pck.tmp.LittleGuy.4088'
>
>This seems to be a widespread issue with Mailman under Cygwin -
>permission don't behave as under Unix, so Mailman chokes easily.  I
>don't blame Mailman, I'm sure it's reasonable for it to expect
>permissions to behave they way they should.
>
>However, at this point I'm wondering whether the Mailman + Cygwin
>combination is workable.  The Mailman website, Manual and FAQ reasonably
>state that Mailman "does not currently work on Windows" and "some
>source-code level changes are currently necessary to get Mailman working
>under Cygwin" and "It probably does not work on Windows, although it's
>possible you could get it running on a Cygwin system."


I think the above is a fair summary of the issue. I do have *test*
mailman installs under Cygwin that work, but they are not accessable
to the outside world. I don't know if it is possible to actually run
Mailman in a secure way on a public server, because Mailman's security
is based on SETGID wrappers, and I don't think SETGID actually works
under Cygwin.


>This makes me sad, as I had high hopes, as I cannot find any real
>alternative to Mailman in the Windows world, neither free nor
>commercial.  All I wanted to do was to create a small mailing list on a
>plain XP box, but it's become a week-long ordeal ending in frustration.
>
>I'm wide open to advice, although I suspect "Get a Linux machine" is the
>likely response :(  (I do have a Linux box, but this XP box is the
>quiet, low-power always-on server machine in our office which runs our
>website with Apache wonderfully, hence that's where I must install a
>mailing list.)


Here's how you can make it work.

CAVEAT!! This will not be secure! (more below)

>From your previous posts, I think your web server runs in the
Administrators group. What are you running as a mail server? I use
Exim under Cygwin and that works well and integrates well with
Mailman. Anyway, your mail server needs to run in the Administrators
group too. Then you need to make your mailman user a member of the
Administrators group, not mm, and reconfigure Mailman with
--with-groupname, --with-cgi-gid and --with-mail-gid all equal to
Administrators. Then reinstall with 'make install' and run
'bin/check_perms -f' to make sure things are OK. You may need to
change the group of your $prefix directory to Administrators before
configure will run.

Now everything will run in the Administrators group which will have
permissions. The SETGID wrappers won't actually set group, but they
will be run in the Administrators group anyway, so things will work.

The problem is that Apache will now be able to access any Mailman files
without going through the cgi-bin wrappers, so potentially, outside
users can retrieve things like config.pck files that contain member
lists and their passwords.

You may be able to arrange the Apache config so that it is not possible
to craft a URL that would retrieve files from Mailman directly. If so,
you would be fairly safe, but I don't know much about this, so I don't
know how easy or difficult this might be.

Let us know how it works out. And if you have 'improvements' for FAQ
5.2, please give us those too.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From fvgi242ss at wlanhacking.de  Thu Dec 22 20:09:54 2005
From: fvgi242ss at wlanhacking.de (fvgi242ss)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 20:09:54 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems with mailman and dyndns host
Message-ID: <200512222009.54439.fvgi242ss@wlanhacking.de>

I run gissmoh.kicks-ass.net (dyndns) and mail.wlanhacking.de
which is an alias to gissmoh.kicks-ass.net.

I have  existing CNAME/MX entries:

mail.wlanhacking.de. 	CNAME		gissmoh.kicks-ass.net
*.wlanhacking.de.	MX	100 	gissmoh.kicks-ass.net
wlanhacking.de.		MX	100 	gissmoh.kicks-ass.net

My postifx uses smtp.wlanhacking.de as relay host which is
a mailserver from my provider.

Several recipients get messages like this:

-----Original Message-----
From: wlanhacking-bounces at gissmoh.kicks-ass.net 
[mailto:wlanhacking-bounces at gissmoh.kicks-ass.net] On Behalf Of 
wlanhacking at gissmoh.kicks-ass.net
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 4:19 PM
To: wlanhacking at gissmoh.kicks-ass.net
Subject: [wlanhacking] Please be patient


What to do to replace gissmoh.kicks-ass.net with 
mail.wlanhacking.de?

Thanx.

PS: I run Ubuntu-Breezy and use the provided .debs from Ubuntu.

-- 
wlanhacking.de
http://mail.wlanhacking.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/wlanhacking


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec 22 20:36:52 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 11:36:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems with mailman and dyndns host
In-Reply-To: <200512222009.54439.fvgi242ss@wlanhacking.de>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512221136520359f0598d9b@msapiro>

fvgi242ss wrote:
>
>Several recipients get messages like this:
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: wlanhacking-bounces at gissmoh.kicks-ass.net 
>[mailto:wlanhacking-bounces at gissmoh.kicks-ass.net] On Behalf Of 
>wlanhacking at gissmoh.kicks-ass.net
>Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 4:19 PM
>To: wlanhacking at gissmoh.kicks-ass.net
>Subject: [wlanhacking] Please be patient
>
>
>What to do to replace gissmoh.kicks-ass.net with 
>mail.wlanhacking.de?
>
>Thanx.
>
>PS: I run Ubuntu-Breezy and use the provided .debs from Ubuntu.
>
>-- 
>wlanhacking.de
>http://mail.wlanhacking.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/wlanhacking


There are a couple of issues here, only one of which may be a Mailman
issue.

Go to <http://mail.wlanhacking.de/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/wlanhacking>
and look at the host_name attribute near the bottom of the General
Options page. If this is gissmoh.kicks-ass.net, replace it with
mail.wlanhacking.de. This may also indicate that DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST is
not properly set in Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py. If host_name is already
mail.wlanhacking.de, then it is an outgoing MTA that is changing it.

The other issue is the representation of From: as

>From: wlanhacking-bounces at gissmoh.kicks-ass.net 
>[mailto:wlanhacking-bounces at gissmoh.kicks-ass.net] On Behalf Of 
>wlanhacking at gissmoh.kicks-ass.net

This is due to the recipient's MUA using envelope sender instead of the
actual From: header.

>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

See FAQ 2.3

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From rnissley at gmail.com  Thu Dec 22 21:14:14 2005
From: rnissley at gmail.com (Ronald Nissley)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 15:14:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] /mailman/ part of URL
Message-ID: <4ca68c640512221214i3049fa5cp29496d97bf33e3ac@mail.gmail.com>

What needs to be changed in httpd.conf and/or mm_cfg.py so that my lists can
be accessed via http://lists.mydomain.tld instead of
http://lists.mydomain.tld/mailman?

The relevant part of my httpd.conf:

ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/
<Directory /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/>
  AllowOverride None
  Options ExecCGI
  Order allow,deny
  Allow from all
</Directory>

Alias /pipermail/ /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/
<Directory /var/lib/mailman/archives/public>
  Options Indexes MultiViews FollowSymLinks
  AllowOverride None
  Order allow,deny
  Allow from all
</Directory>

RedirectMatch ^/mailman[/]*$
*http://lists.mydomain.tld/mailman/listinfo*<http://lists.mydomain.tld/mailman/listinfo>

I found a similar/identical question that was posted to mailman-users
several years ago, but did not see responses to the post. Your tips and
suggestions will be appreciated.

Thank you,

Ronald Nissley


From webster at lexmark.com  Thu Dec 22 21:28:36 2005
From: webster at lexmark.com (webster at lexmark.com)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 15:28:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] receiving list mail from account towhich mail
 cannot be delivered
Message-ID: <OFA5962862.BF244814-ON852570DF.006D8BC2-852570DF.0070BDCB@lexmark.com>

Mark (& Dan (& others)),

Thanks for the info.

I figured my #1&2 question was available in the webgui somewhere, but I 
just didn't notice that 'Privacy options' expands.
I [now] guess that's what the '...' is for, huh ?   :-)

Anywho, your comments on my #3 question, below, gets me to thinking.
I could have the 'config_list -i path/to/file/above' just run whenever, like from cron, no ?
Even better, if there were some kind of 'trigger' to hook when a new list 
is created from the web...


Gary R. Webster




Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>
12/21/05 06:19 PM

 
        To:     webster at lexmark.com, mailman-users at python.org
        cc: 
        Subject:        Re: [Mailman-Users] [mailman-users] receiving list mail from account 
towhich mail cannot be delivered


webster at lexmark.com wrote:
>
>I see two ways to do this:
>1)  Make it a list member with 'nomail' checked.
>2)  When this account first tried to send e-mail to a list, it was not a 
>member, the note was held, & the moderator was notified.  On the 
>moderators html page (/admindb/), I can check the box 'Add ... sender' & 
>select the radio button 'Accepts' .
>
>So, now a few questions:
>1)  Can/How #2 be done before-hand (before the e-mail is held because the 

>sender is not a member of the list), on the website ?
>2)  related to #1:  How can this 'accept this address as sender' be 
undone 
>?


For both 1 and 2 go to the admin Privacy options...->Sender filters
page and look at the Non-member filters.


>3)  & most importantly:  Is there a way to make this default for all new 
>[created] lists ?  Can I set some 'default' so that a specified e-mail 
>address is either accepted as a sender without being a member, or make it 

>a member which doesn't receive mail ('nomail'), for all new lists at 
their 
>creation ?


No. You can set

DEFAULT_GENERIC_NONMEMBER_ACTION = 0

in mm_cfg.py, to accept posts from all non-members by default until you
change it, but this isn't what you want.

You could do something like the following:

Create a file containing the one line

accept_these_nonmembers = ['the_bot at example.com']

Then you could create a shell script similar to

#!/bin/sh
bin/newlist $1
bin/config_list -i path/to/file/above $1

and use that to create lists. I can't think of a similar way to do this
if you want to create lists from the web.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec 22 21:58:35 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 12:58:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] /mailman/ part of URL
In-Reply-To: <4ca68c640512221214i3049fa5cp29496d97bf33e3ac@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005122212583501563547aedf@msapiro>

Ronald Nissley wrote:

>What needs to be changed in httpd.conf and/or mm_cfg.py so that my lists can
>be accessed via http://lists.mydomain.tld instead of
>http://lists.mydomain.tld/mailman?
>
>The relevant part of my httpd.conf:
>
>ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/


ScriptAlias / /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/



><Directory /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/>
>  AllowOverride None
>  Options ExecCGI
>  Order allow,deny
>  Allow from all
></Directory>
>
>Alias /pipermail/ /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/
><Directory /var/lib/mailman/archives/public>
>  Options Indexes MultiViews FollowSymLinks
>  AllowOverride None
>  Order allow,deny
>  Allow from all
></Directory>
>
>RedirectMatch ^/mailman[/]*$
>*http://lists.mydomain.tld/mailman/listinfo*<http://lists.mydomain.tld/mailman/listinfo>


???
RedirectMatch ^[/]+$ http://lists.mydomain.tld/listinfo


You also need

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/'

in mm_cfg.py, and then you'll need to run fix_url to update the
web_page_url attribute on existing lists. Run 'bin/fix_url.py' for
instructions.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec 22 22:33:18 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 13:33:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] receiving list mail from account towhich
	mailcannot be delivered
In-Reply-To: <OFA5962862.BF244814-ON852570DF.006D8BC2-852570DF.0070BDCB@lexmark.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512221333180843fe4f597d@msapiro>

Gary R. Webster wrote:
>
>Anywho, your comments on my #3 question, below, gets me to thinking.
>I could have the 'config_list -i path/to/file/above' just run whenever, like from cron, no ?
>Even better, if there were some kind of 'trigger' to hook when a new list 
>is created from the web...

You could make a shell script or other process that would run via cron
as often as you think is necessary.

it could do something like

#!bin/sh
bin/list_lists --bare > path/to/lists.curr
diff path/to/lists.prev path/to/lists.curr | grep '^>' |\
   awk '{print $2}' > path/to/lists.new
cp path/to/lists.curr path/to/lists.prev
for list in `cat path/to/lists.new`
do bin/config_list -i path/to/file/above $list
done

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ross at lug.udel.edu  Thu Dec 22 22:35:48 2005
From: ross at lug.udel.edu (Ross Vandegrift)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 16:35:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Large mailing lists
In-Reply-To: <p06200745bfd094047cfa@[192.168.1.100]>
References: <20051221224031.GB8890@lug.udel.edu>
	<20051222034616.GA11344@lug.udel.edu>
	<p06200743bfd00401bc16@[192.168.1.100]>
	<20051222150113.GB31400@lug.udel.edu>
	<p06200745bfd094047cfa@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <20051222213548.GA7836@lug.udel.edu>

On Thu, Dec 22, 2005 at 11:39:37AM -0600, Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 10:01 AM -0500 2005-12-22, Ross Vandegrift wrote:
> 	Ahh.  In this case you might want to give me some identifying 
> information for your lists, because I updated FAQ 1.15 with the 
> information you had posted on the list, and I identified that with 
> udel.edu

Well, I can't release the identity of the list owner (confidentiality
agreements and all that!), but it's a dedicated server run by
HostMySite.com.  As of today, the server has about 550,000 recipients
spread across four lists.  I'll be increasing the spread to probably
100-200 lists today.

> I kept wondering if I should ask you about Dr. Mills, and 
> whether or not you kept your machines in good time sync.  ;-)

Delaware - the great state of perfect time keeping.
Me - I love NTP, it is awesome
Univ of Delaware - they don't use NTP and the clocks are always
wrong...

Poor Dr. Mills!
> 
-- 
Ross Vandegrift
ross at lug.udel.edu

"The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who
make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians
have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine
man in the bonds of Hell."
	--St. Augustine, De Genesi ad Litteram, Book II, xviii, 37


From ben at ahualoa.net  Thu Dec 22 23:28:09 2005
From: ben at ahualoa.net (Ben)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 12:28:09 -1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman under Cygwin - won't add list
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200512221000130984825368c5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <000201c60746$fc6fd350$a702a8c0@LittleGuy>

Mark,

Thanks very much for continuing to try to help..

> >I tried explicitly forcing permissions with 'chmod 777 
> >config.pck', and that made the Admin page work.  So, the
> >"660" permissions are the problem, not the owner/group.
> >This seems to be a widespread issue with Mailman under Cygwin - 
> >permission don't behave as under Unix, so Mailman chokes easily.

> Here's how you can make it work.
> From your previous posts, I think your web server runs in the
> Administrators group. What are you running as a mail server? 
> I use Exim under Cygwin and that works well and integrates 
> well with Mailman.

I run exim too, and it works fine.  Getting mailman to talk to exim is a
step I haven't even gotten to yet, so far I am just trying to get
Mailman to create a list.

> you need to make your 
> mailman user a member of the Administrators group, not mm, 
> and reconfigure Mailman with --with-groupname, --with-cgi-gid 
> and --with-mail-gid all equal to Administrators. Then 
> reinstall with 'make install' and run 'bin/check_perms -f' to 
> make sure things are OK.

I have tried this.  However, I get the exact same error as before:

admin(704):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 591,
in __load
admin(704):     fp = open(dbfile)
admin(704): IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/usr/local/mailman/lists/friends/config.pck'

I have attached the whole error log in case it helps.
The "config.pck" file exists, and it has 660 permissions:
	-rw-rw----  1 Ben None 3607 Dec 22 12:10 config.pck

As before, it is the 660 permission bits, not the owner/group, which is
causing Mailman to choke.  I can't understand why Mailman's 'newlist'
uses this permission mask to create files which Mailman will
subsequently refuse to read.

Any other ideas?

Thanks,
Ben

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec 22 23:55:15 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 14:55:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman under Cygwin - won't add list
In-Reply-To: <000201c60746$fc6fd350$a702a8c0@LittleGuy>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512221455150015f0598c1e@msapiro>

Ben wrote:
>
>I have tried this.  However, I get the exact same error as before:
>
>admin(704):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 591,
>in __load
>admin(704):     fp = open(dbfile)
>admin(704): IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
>'/usr/local/mailman/lists/friends/config.pck'
>
>I have attached the whole error log in case it helps.

I don't need it.

>The "config.pck" file exists, and it has 660 permissions:
>	-rw-rw----  1 Ben None 3607 Dec 22 12:10 config.pck


You need to run bin/newlist as mailman or some user in the
Administrators group, not as Ben in group None. Either that or do

chown -R mailman:Administrators /usr/local/mailman/lists/friends

after creating the list, or creat the list via the web create interface.

>As before, it is the 660 permission bits, not the owner/group, which is
>causing Mailman to choke.  I can't understand why Mailman's 'newlist'
>uses this permission mask to create files which Mailman will
>subsequently refuse to read.

Because it expects to be run as the mailman user. And because Mailman's
security scheme is based on group permission and exclusion of other.

The underlying problem here is Windows lack of support for setting
effective user and group ids. This breaks all kinds of things that
Mailman assumes about its environment.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ben at ahualoa.net  Fri Dec 23 00:28:47 2005
From: ben at ahualoa.net (Ben)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 13:28:47 -1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman under Cygwin - won't add list
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200512221455150015f0598c1e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <001101c6074f$74f4d110$a702a8c0@LittleGuy>

> You need to run bin/newlist as mailman or some user in the 
> Administrators group, not as Ben in group None.

User 'Ben' and 'mailman' are both in the Administrators group.  It is
cygwin that decides to display "None" as the file's group owner.  I
assume this is just a limitation of Cygwin.

On the Windows side (Manage: Users), I have users like this:
	Ben, member of Administrators
	mailman, member of Administrators

In /etc/group, I have:
 Administrators:S-1-5-32-544:544:

In /etc/passwd:
 Ben:unused_by_nt/2000/xp:1004:544:...
 mailman:unused_by_nt/2000/xp:1010:544:...

So, as far as both Windows and Cygwin should be concerned, mailman _is_
in the Administrators group.

Next, I tried running bin/netlist as mailman, as you suggest.  This
gives the error:

  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Site.py", line 40, in _makedir
    os.makedirs(path, 02775)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/os.py", line 159, in makedirs
    mkdir(name, mode)
OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/usr/local/mailman/lists/friends'

Next I tried 'chown -R mailman:Administrators /usr/local/mailman/lists'
then tried again to add the list as 'mailman', which gives a different
error:

  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 422, in __write
    fp = open(self.__tmpfname, 'w')
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/usr/local/mailman/locks/_site_.lock.Lit
tleGuy.4260.0'

> or create the list via the web create interface.

Tried that too.  I get an web page stating "Error: You are not
authorized to create new mailing lists."

> > As before, it is the 660 permission bits, not the 
> > owner/group, which is causing Mailman to choke.
> > I can't understand why Mailman's 'newlist' 
> > uses this permission mask to create files which Mailman
> > will subsequently refuse to read.
> 
> Because it expects to be run as the mailman user.

But, it won't be run as the 'mailman' user when it's invoked from
Apache, so that assumption will surely fail, right?

> The underlying problem here is Windows lack of support for 
> setting effective user and group ids. This breaks all kinds 
> of things that Mailman assumes about its environment.

Yes, that's clear :)  The question remaining is, is there any hope of
getting around it :(

Thanks,
Ben



From elvisfern at gmail.com  Fri Dec 23 00:49:24 2005
From: elvisfern at gmail.com (Elvis Fernandes)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 15:49:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Create mail list which user cannot un-subscribe
In-Reply-To: <PC174020051221164115065611a59f9f@msapiro>
References: <5b1c0dc50512211554y7e5bf39fva7eb4bdadbe28f10@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC174020051221164115065611a59f9f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <5b1c0dc50512221549n1be8a9b9y2625699f1e265fdd@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks! That will take care of my requirement.

Regards
Elvis


On 12/21/05, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Elvis Fernandes wrote:
> >
> >I am trying to create a mail list where users DO NOT have the choice to
> >un-subscribe.
> >Is there a way that this can be accomplished in mailman?
>
> Admin->Privacy options...->Subscription rules->unsubscribe_policy = Yes
>
> unsubscribe_policy (privacy): Is the list moderator's approval required
> for unsubscription requests? (No is recommended)
>
> When members want to leave a list, they will make an unsubscription
> request, either via the web or via email. Normally it is best for you
> to allow open unsubscriptions so that users can easily remove
> themselves from mailing lists (they get really upset if they can't get
> off lists!).
>
> For some lists though, you may want to impose moderator approval before
> an unsubscription request is processed. Examples of such lists include
> a corporate mailing list that all employees are required to be members
> of.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From elvisfern at gmail.com  Fri Dec 23 01:19:05 2005
From: elvisfern at gmail.com (Elvis Fernandes)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 16:19:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Seaching the contents of archives
Message-ID: <5b1c0dc50512221619y70027f52n7b69c72acf79242e@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

Is there a way that the contents of mailman archives can be made searchable?
Without mailman, the users could find/search for content using their mail
reader.

There are private internal mail lists of the company, and I am looking at
ways to give the users a mailman/pipermail search feature.

Any information will be appreciated.

Regards
Elvis


From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Fri Dec 23 01:22:31 2005
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 09:22:31 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] filename too long error - stopping list
In-Reply-To: <20051222154037.GA14616@patch.com>
References: <20051222142655.GA3498@patch.com>	<20051222152158.GA14240@patch.com>
	<20051222154037.GA14616@patch.com>
Message-ID: <43AB4347.6000704@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Hi Michael,

You can set Scrubber.py not to use the orginal filename in the message 
by adding followin line in mm_cfg.py (mailman-2.1.6 and above).

SCRUBBER_DONT_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME = True

Developers,

May be we should set this default in Defaults.py.in in the next release 
of 2.1.7. Thoughts?

Michael Rasmussen wrote:
> Resolved.  The digest keeps a seperate mbox file at 
> {MMDIR}lists/LISTNAME/digest.mbox  removing the email from that location 
> was the solution to my immediate problem.
> 
> This does expose a DOS attack potential for MM lists.  The too long
> attachment name needs to be handled in a more graceful manner.
> 
> Michael Rasmussen wrote:
> 
>>Update:
>>
>>I've found the offending message and purged it from the list archives,
>>purged it from the shunt files, and purged it from everywhere I could
>>find it. 
>>
>>Yet the problem persists.  So I'm looking for the temp file/mail area
>>where the file that contains this attachment may be found.
>>
>>
>>Michael Rasmussen wrote:
>>
>>>I have a list that was sent a file with an attachement with too long a
>>>name.  (See error below) now all mail to the list is being shunted.
>>>
>>>the filename listed does not exist on my system.  There is no file on my system with that name.  
>>>The directory /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/rca-l/attachments/20051207/3d04c3a4 is empty.
>>>
>>>What do I need to do to resolve this problem?
>>>
>>>==========  Error message =====================
>>>Dec 22 06:08:46 2005 (2233) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 36] File name too long: '/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/rca-l/attachments/20051207/3d04c3a4/iso-8859-1QThe_surface_of_the_SunA0_The_sun_has_a_rigid_iron_surfaceiso-8859-1Q_located_under_the_photosphere_that_is_revealed_by_satelliiso-8859-1Qte_imagery.A0_The_solar_surface_sits_beneath_the_suns_viiso-8859-1Qsible_photosphere_and_is_electrically_active..obj'
>>>Dec 22 06:08:46 2005 (2233) Traceback (most recent call last):
>>>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
>>>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>>>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
>>>    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>>>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in _dispose
>>>    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
>>>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in _dopipeline
>>>    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>>>  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 91, in process
>>>    send_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
>>>  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 132, in send_digests
>>>    send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
>>>  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 306, in send_i18n_digests
>>>    msg = scrubber(mlist, msg)
>>>  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 265, in process
>>>    url = save_attachment(mlist, part, dir)
>>>  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 447, in save_attachment
>>>    fp = open(path, 'w')
>>>IOError: [Errno 36] File name too long: '/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/rca-l/attachments/20051207/3d04c3a4/iso-8859-1QThe_surface_of_the_SunA0_The_sun_has_a_rigid_iron_surfaceiso-8859-1Q_located_under_the_photosphere_that_is_revealed_by_satelliiso-8859-1Qte_imagery.A0_The_solar_surface_sits_beneath_the_suns_viiso-8859-1Qsible_photosphere_and_is_electrically_active..obj'
>>>
>>>Dec 22 06:08:46 2005 (2233) SHUNTING: 1135258825.4376719+99568bcc1187c910d48aae8b9ae8f68ed3aa643b
>>>
>>>==========  Error message =====================
>>>-- 
>>>    Michael Rasmussen, Portland Oregon  



-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec 23 01:27:07 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 16:27:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman under Cygwin - won't add list
In-Reply-To: <001101c6074f$74f4d110$a702a8c0@LittleGuy>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512221627070968e2684eaf@msapiro>

Ben wrote:

>> You need to run bin/newlist as mailman or some user in the 
>> Administrators group, not as Ben in group None.
>
>User 'Ben' and 'mailman' are both in the Administrators group.  It is
>cygwin that decides to display "None" as the file's group owner.  I
>assume this is just a limitation of Cygwin.


Maybe it is. The point is that in order for this to work, everything
must be in the same group that Apache is running as.


>On the Windows side (Manage: Users), I have users like this:
>	Ben, member of Administrators
>	mailman, member of Administrators
>
>In /etc/group, I have:
> Administrators:S-1-5-32-544:544:
>
>In /etc/passwd:
> Ben:unused_by_nt/2000/xp:1004:544:...
> mailman:unused_by_nt/2000/xp:1010:544:...
>
>So, as far as both Windows and Cygwin should be concerned, mailman _is_
>in the Administrators group.
>


But that clearly isn't what's happening. What do you get from

group Ben

and

group mailman

If they are in more than one group, I think files they create will be
assigned to the first group they belong to.


>Next, I tried running bin/netlist as mailman, as you suggest.  This
>gives the error:
>
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Site.py", line 40, in _makedir
>    os.makedirs(path, 02775)
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/os.py", line 159, in makedirs
>    mkdir(name, mode)
>OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
>'/usr/local/mailman/lists/friends'
>
>Next I tried 'chown -R mailman:Administrators /usr/local/mailman/lists'
>then tried again to add the list as 'mailman', which gives a different
>error:
>
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 422, in __write
>    fp = open(self.__tmpfname, 'w')
>IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
>'/usr/local/mailman/locks/_site_.lock.Lit
>tleGuy.4260.0'


So the locks/ directory doesn't have permission for user mailman and
whatever group it runs as. See below


>> or create the list via the web create interface.
>
>Tried that too.  I get an web page stating "Error: You are not
>authorized to create new mailing lists."


And what did you use for the password? It must be the site password or
the list creator password set by bin/mmsitepass. If you used one of
these, and it didn't work then it's probably permissions on
data/adm.pw or data/creator.pw.


>> > As before, it is the 660 permission bits, not the 
>> > owner/group, which is causing Mailman to choke.
>> > I can't understand why Mailman's 'newlist' 
>> > uses this permission mask to create files which Mailman
>> > will subsequently refuse to read.
>> 
>> Because it expects to be run as the mailman user.
>
>But, it won't be run as the 'mailman' user when it's invoked from
>Apache, so that assumption will surely fail, right?


Well, actually it expects to be run in the mailman group which in your
case is the Administrators group. Any files it creates have to be
group owned by Administrators.


>> The underlying problem here is Windows lack of support for 
>> setting effective user and group ids. This breaks all kinds 
>> of things that Mailman assumes about its environment.
>
>Yes, that's clear :)  The question remaining is, is there any hope of
>getting around it :(


Well, in my case, everything runs as user Mark and group None so
everything is in the None group, and it works. In your case at least
Apache is running as a service presumably in the Administrators group
so everything has to be in the Administrators group for things to work.

Try

cd to the 'prefix' directory, and

chgrp -R Administrators .

or maybe better

chown -R mailman:Administrators .

Then the web stuff should work.

BTW, did you run bin/check_perms after reconfiguring with
--with-groupname=Administrators?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec 23 01:29:52 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 16:29:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Seaching the contents of archives
In-Reply-To: <5b1c0dc50512221619y70027f52n7b69c72acf79242e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020051222162952000069e6b314@msapiro>

Elvis Fernandes wrote:
>
>Is there a way that the contents of mailman archives can be made searchable?
>Without mailman, the users could find/search for content using their mail
>reader.
>
>There are private internal mail lists of the company, and I am looking at
>ways to give the users a mailman/pipermail search feature.


Go to the FAQ wizard
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
and search for search

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jdennis at redhat.com  Fri Dec 23 01:39:49 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 19:39:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman under Cygwin - won't add list
In-Reply-To: <001101c6074f$74f4d110$a702a8c0@LittleGuy>
References: <001101c6074f$74f4d110$a702a8c0@LittleGuy>
Message-ID: <43AB4755.1090707@redhat.com>

Ben wrote:

>>The underlying problem here is Windows lack of support for 
>>setting effective user and group ids. This breaks all kinds 
>>of things that Mailman assumes about its environment.
>>    
>>
>
>Yes, that's clear :)  The question remaining is, is there any hope of
>getting around it :(
>  
>

Yes, edit the file src/common.c and comment out the fatal returns in 
check_caller()

However, you're on your own, defeating security checks, especially on 
windows, is an invitation to be a very unhappy camper someday.


From ben at ahualoa.net  Fri Dec 23 02:01:22 2005
From: ben at ahualoa.net (Ben)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 15:01:22 -1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman under Cygwin - won't add list
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200512221627070968e2684eaf@msapiro>
Message-ID: <001f01c6075c$6443abe0$a702a8c0@LittleGuy>

> >So, as far as both Windows and Cygwin should be concerned, 
> >mailman _is_ in the Administrators group.
> 
> But that clearly isn't what's happening. What do you get from
> group Ben
> and
> group mailman

I get "bash: group: command not found"

> If they are in more than one group, I think files they create 
> will be assigned to the first group they belong to.

Files they create are apparently assigned to group "None" in most cases.
(I find that if I use "touch" to create a dummy file, it gets the right
Group owner, but almost all other cases result in "None".)

> >> or create the list via the web create interface.
> >
> >Tried that too.  I get an web page stating "Error: You are not 
> >authorized to create new mailing lists."
> 
> And what did you use for the password? It must be the site 
> password or the list creator password set by bin/mmsitepass.

I tried everything I could think of: the passwords for 'Ben' account,
for the 'mailman' account, for the 'Administrator' account, empty
password, list password.  No matter what I tried, it says "Error: You
are not authorized."

Now i tried setting mmsitepass, and giving the same value in the web
create inteface.  That got past the authorization message, and now says
"Error: Unknown virtual host: localhost".

> >But, it won't be run as the 'mailman' user when it's invoked from 
> >Apache, so that assumption will surely fail, right?
> 
> Well, actually it expects to be run in the mailman group 
> which in your case is the Administrators group. Any files it 
> creates have to be group owned by Administrators.

Since Cygwin regularly sets group to 'None', I think this isn't going to
work.  AFAICT there is no real "None" group, it is a pseudo-group
created my Cygwin's "mkgroup" and "mkpasswd" commands.  I had been
getting around it by manually fixing the group IDs in the /etc/passwd
file, to force user 'mailman' into the 'Administrators' group to match
the reality in Windows, but apparently that is not sufficient to really
convince Cygwin.

> Well, in my case, everything runs as user Mark and group None 
> so everything is in the None group, and it works.

Aha!  Well, maybe that's the only functional workaround!  I will try
re-configure and re-install with "--with-mail-gid=None
--with-cgi-gid=None --with-groupname=None" and see if it gets further.
I suspect, though, that it will still create files with 660 permissions,
which will cause other parts of the code to fail..

> Apache is running as a service presumably in 
> the Administrators group so everything has to be in the 
> Administrators group for things to work.

Right, although Cygwin doesn't fully realize that the service is running
in the Administrators group.

> BTW, did you run bin/check_perms after reconfiguring with 
> --with-groupname=Administrators?

I did, with -f so that it would fix everything up.  Unfortunately it
doesn't avoid the 660 and 'None' problems.

If we finally get through this, I promise to make up a FAQ entry that
really works, unlike the really wrong/outdated one in FAQ entry 5.2.

-Ben



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec 23 02:28:31 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 17:28:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman under Cygwin - won't add list
In-Reply-To: <001f01c6075c$6443abe0$a702a8c0@LittleGuy>
Message-ID: <PC174020051222172831092176d0f1d8@msapiro>

Ben wrote:
>> 
>> But that clearly isn't what's happening. What do you get from
>> group Ben
>> and
>> group mailman
>
>I get "bash: group: command not found"


Sorry, that should have been groups, not group



>Now i tried setting mmsitepass, and giving the same value in the web
>create inteface.  That got past the authorization message, and now says
>"Error: Unknown virtual host: localhost".


So you either need to visit the web page using whatever your
DEFAULT_URL_HOST is or set

VIRTUAL_HOSTS_OVERVIEW = Off

in mm_cfg.py.


>Since Cygwin regularly sets group to 'None', I think this isn't going to
>work.  AFAICT there is no real "None" group, it is a pseudo-group
>created my Cygwin's "mkgroup" and "mkpasswd" commands.  I had been
>getting around it by manually fixing the group IDs in the /etc/passwd
>file, to force user 'mailman' into the 'Administrators' group to match
>the reality in Windows, but apparently that is not sufficient to really
>convince Cygwin.



Well, apparantly Apache runs as group Administrators, so I'm guessing
that when Apache creates files, they will be created with group
Administrators.


>> Well, in my case, everything runs as user Mark and group None 
>> so everything is in the None group, and it works.
>
>Aha!  Well, maybe that's the only functional workaround!  I will try
>re-configure and re-install with "--with-mail-gid=None
>--with-cgi-gid=None --with-groupname=None" and see if it gets further.
>I suspect, though, that it will still create files with 660 permissions,
>which will cause other parts of the code to fail..
>
>> Apache is running as a service presumably in 
>> the Administrators group so everything has to be in the 
>> Administrators group for things to work.
>
>Right, although Cygwin doesn't fully realize that the service is running
>in the Administrators group.


Oh but I think it does, that's why it can't access the group None files.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec 23 02:31:29 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 17:31:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman under Cygwin - won't add list
In-Reply-To: <001f01c6075c$6443abe0$a702a8c0@LittleGuy>
Message-ID: <PC174020051222173129018776d0eef8@msapiro>

Ben wrote:

>> Well, in my case, everything runs as user Mark and group None 
>> so everything is in the None group, and it works.
>
>Aha!  Well, maybe that's the only functional workaround!  I will try
>re-configure and re-install with "--with-mail-gid=None
>--with-cgi-gid=None --with-groupname=None" and see if it gets further.
>I suspect, though, that it will still create files with 660 permissions,
>which will cause other parts of the code to fail..

That's just going to put you back where you started with the wrapper
being invoked as group Administrators and expecting group None.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ben at ahualoa.net  Fri Dec 23 02:36:06 2005
From: ben at ahualoa.net (Ben)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 15:36:06 -1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman under Cygwin - won't add list
In-Reply-To: <001f01c6075c$6443abe0$a702a8c0@LittleGuy>
Message-ID: <002101c60761$3e8bcf90$a702a8c0@LittleGuy>

Mark,

> Aha!  Well, maybe that's the only functional workaround!  I 
> will try re-configure and re-install with 
> "--with-mail-gid=None --with-cgi-gid=None 
> --with-groupname=None" and see if it gets further.

To continue the story.  I tried this, and web access produced the error
that Apache is running it from group "Administrators", not "None".  So
next, I tried:

./configure --with-mail-gid=None --with-cgi-gid=Administrators
--with-groupname=None

Not much better results.  Using "addlist" does seem to succeed.
Attempting the web interface now gives the classic:
"We're sorry, we hit a bug! [...] the webmaster can find this
information in the Mailman error logs."

However, this time there is no error log; /usr/local/mailman/logs is
empty.

I don't know if we've exhausted all possible combinations of mail-gid,
cgi-gid, and groupname, but it sure feels elusive.

You mentioned that you _have_ seen it work with user 'Mark' and group
'None'.  Do you have any record of what you passed to ./configure in
this case?

Thanks,
Ben




From ben at ahualoa.net  Fri Dec 23 02:47:31 2005
From: ben at ahualoa.net (Ben)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 15:47:31 -1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman under Cygwin - won't add list
In-Reply-To: <PC174020051222172831092176d0f1d8@msapiro>
Message-ID: <002201c60762$d693d5c0$a702a8c0@LittleGuy>

Mark,

> Well, apparantly Apache runs as group Administrators, so I'm 
> guessing that when Apache creates files, they will be created 
> with group Administrators.

Right.  Perhaps the trouble is that Apache runs outside of Cygwin (or
more precisely, the trouble is that Mailman runs inside it :) although
Apache is simply executing a binary which is built and runs inside
Cygwin, so that must not be it.

Perhaps the only real solution here is to port (fork) Mailman from
Cygwin to native Win32.  I can't even imagine what kind of work that
would entail.  I'm have to become far more python-savvy before the end,
no doubt.

> >> Apache is running as a service presumably in
> >> the Administrators group so everything has to be in the 
> >> Administrators group for things to work.
>
> >Right, although Cygwin doesn't fully realize that the service is 
> >running in the Administrators group.
> 
> Oh but I think it does, that's why it can't access the group 
> None files.

I'm beginning to wonder how on earth Cygwin fakes the group id for
files.  Apparently there's nowhere to store it in Windows, so if Cygwin
encounteres a file it didn't create, it must just guess.

-Ben



From joe.mezzanini at gmail.com  Fri Dec 23 02:47:53 2005
From: joe.mezzanini at gmail.com (Joe Mezzanini)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 20:47:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] editing archive template
Message-ID: <ba0abcc20512221747w4a5493b2j7c25f2ff8403abb1@mail.gmail.com>

How do I edit the archibve template?
Which is here (for me)?
http://maillist.themezz.com/pipermail/themezz-themezz.com/

thanks,
Joe

--
http://cnyEats.com
http://theMezz.com


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec 23 03:19:36 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 18:19:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman under Cygwin - won't add list
In-Reply-To: <002101c60761$3e8bcf90$a702a8c0@LittleGuy>
Message-ID: <PC174020051222181936034376d0ef9b@msapiro>

Ben wrote:
>
>You mentioned that you _have_ seen it work with user 'Mark' and group
>'None'.  Do you have any record of what you passed to ./configure in
>this case?

Yes, but it won't help you because I run Apache under Cygwin, also as
user Mark and group None.

This comes out of a shell script that sets $prefix earlier

./configure --prefix=$prefix --with-username=Mark --with-groupname=None
--with-cgi-gid=None --with-mail-gid=None --with-mailhost=localhost
--with-urlhost=localhost
make install > make.log

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec 23 03:36:43 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 18:36:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman under Cygwin - won't add list
In-Reply-To: <002201c60762$d693d5c0$a702a8c0@LittleGuy>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512221836430484380e272f@msapiro>

Ben wrote:

>Right.  Perhaps the trouble is that Apache runs outside of Cygwin (or
>more precisely, the trouble is that Mailman runs inside it :) although
>Apache is simply executing a binary which is built and runs inside
>Cygwin, so that must not be it.


This is the first time you mentioned Apache doesn't run under Cygwin.
I'm sure this adds a serious complication. Apache is executing Python
under Cygwin and Cygwin is enforcing permissions on files based on
user/group/other permissions. Mailman is designed to be run under a
specific group and all access is based on that group. If you can make
the mailman files all belong to the group that Cygwin sees Apache as
(we think that's Administrators) it should work.

So far, the problems I think you've had when you tried this are that
when you use command line tools, files wind up in other groups, but I
think you can get around this by either not using command line tools
or possibly creating a user who is a member of ONLY the Administrators
group to run them or by changing the group on files after the fact.


>Perhaps the only real solution here is to port (fork) Mailman from
>Cygwin to native Win32.  I can't even imagine what kind of work that
>would entail.  I'm have to become far more python-savvy before the end,
>no doubt.


This would be difficult. Not the Python so much as the C wrappers which
expect a Unix like environment, and you'd still have the security
issues to deal with.

Maybe the solution is to run Apache under Cygwin or run a mailman only
version of Apache under Cygwin that listens on a different port.



>I'm beginning to wonder how on earth Cygwin fakes the group id for
>files.  Apparently there's nowhere to store it in Windows, so if Cygwin
>encounteres a file it didn't create, it must just guess.


I think that's right, but I don't know enough to be sure.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Dec 22 22:19:01 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 15:19:01 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman watchdog - status report
In-Reply-To: <E30FC5BF-74BD-41BB-8059-51A2997FF8A5@grc.nasa.gov>
References: <4F21B3F4-0236-41AC-ACD5-5EDB1A2CB96C@uci.edu>
	<E30FC5BF-74BD-41BB-8059-51A2997FF8A5@grc.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <p06200746bfd0c81ab213@[192.168.1.100]>

At 12:32 PM -0500 2005-12-22, Matt Emerson wrote:

>  if ps axw | grep -v grep | grep -v check-qrunner | grep qrunner >/dev/

	If you want to clean this up and not spawn so many uses of grep, 
you can try something like the following:

		if ps axw | egrep 'q[r]unner'

	This will have the same effect as the longer string above, so 
long as the script has the string "qrunner" somewhere in the name. 
If you want to understand why this works, check the man page for 
egrep.

	You could also start a script like this on boot or from cron, 
using locking to make sure there is only ever one copy of the program 
running, and then have it sleep for a reasonable period of time 
between checks.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec 23 03:43:36 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 18:43:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] editing archive template
In-Reply-To: <ba0abcc20512221747w4a5493b2j7c25f2ff8403abb1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512221843360359380e26ab@msapiro>

Joe Mezzanini wrote:

>How do I edit the archibve template?
>Which is here (for me)?
>http://maillist.themezz.com/pipermail/themezz-themezz.com/

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>
for instructions on editing templates in general.

The particular template for an empty archive is emptyarchive.html.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ben at ahualoa.net  Fri Dec 23 08:41:29 2005
From: ben at ahualoa.net (Ben Discoe)
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 21:41:29 -1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman under Cygwin - won't add list
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200512221836430484380e272f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <001601c60794$4985fd70$a702a8c0@LittleGuy>

Hi Mark,

> >Right.  Perhaps the trouble is that Apache runs outside of 
> >Cygwin (or more precisely, the trouble is that Mailman runs
> >inside it :)
> 
> This is the first time you mentioned Apache doesn't run under 
> Cygwin. I'm sure this adds a serious complication.

Wow.  I had no idea at all that it was possible to run Apache _inside_
Cygwin.  The Apache website directs Windows people to just install and
run, so the alternate route is not well known.

> If you can make the mailman files all 
> belong to the group that Cygwin sees Apache as (we 
> think that's Administrators) it should work.

Alas, experience seems to indicate that I cannot make them belong that
way.  Sometimes it's Adminstrators, but generally it's None.

> think you can get around this by either 
> not using command line tools or possibly creating a user who 
> is a member of ONLY the Administrators group to run them or 
> by changing the group on files after the fact.

I've tried several users (e.g. Ben) which is a member of ONLY the
Administrators group (both in Windows and /etc/passwd), and yet it
produces files with 660 permissions and e.g. Ben.None ownership.  C'est
la Cygwin.

> Maybe the solution is to run Apache under Cygwin or run a 
> mailman only version of Apache under Cygwin that listens on a 
> different port.

Arrgh, it's hard to imagine that moving _closer_ to Cygwin is the right
direction, when all the trouble seems to stem from Cygwin itself.

In any case, I have found a solution of sorts!  It requires giving up
the web interface, which is unfortunate but I can live with it.  It
turns out that Exim itself is perfectly capable of processing simple
mailing lists (http://www.exim.org/exim-html-4.10/doc/html/spec_41.html)
including open, closed, and announcement-only lists.  I basically pasted
a few lines from that Exim documentation into my exim.conf, did some
tweaking, and I've got several mailing lists functional!

Someday, somebody will write a portable, open-source MLM that doesn't
fundamentally require Unixy permissions, and ideally doesn't require
command-line fiddling or hacks like Cygwin either.  As much as I am
drawn to the challenge, I fear it won't be me.

I wish best of luck to y'all in the Mailman community, and thanks for
helping out on my trip down this particular rabbit hole.

-Ben



From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Dec 23 15:16:56 2005
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 23:16:56 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman under Cygwin - won't add list
In-Reply-To: <001601c60794$4985fd70$a702a8c0@LittleGuy> (Ben Discoe's
	message of "Thu, 22 Dec 2005 21:41:29 -1000")
References: <001601c60794$4985fd70$a702a8c0@LittleGuy>
Message-ID: <87mzir290n.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Ben" == Ben Discoe <ben at ahualoa.net> writes:

    Ben> Wow.  I had no idea at all that it was possible to run Apache
    Ben> _inside_ Cygwin.  The Apache website directs Windows people
    Ben> to just install and run, so the alternate route is not well
    Ben> known.

You might want to just take a look at the list of stuff that Cygwin's
setup.exe supports.  I imagine Apache (some version) is on the list.

    >> Maybe the solution is to run Apache under Cygwin or run a
    >> mailman only version of Apache under Cygwin that listens on a
    >> different port.

    Ben> Arrgh, it's hard to imagine that moving _closer_ to Cygwin is
    Ben> the right direction, when all the trouble seems to stem from
    Ben> Cygwin itself.

No, the trouble stems from mixing different models of security and
other OS services.  While Cygwin is a big PIMA, too, there's no doubt
in my mind that people who are using Cygwin for one app are better off
using it for apps that cooperate with the first, too.  I do know of a
few exceptions, but they are all out-and-out bugs in the helper
applications.


-- 
School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec 23 16:08:24 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 07:08:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman under Cygwin - won't add list
In-Reply-To: <87mzir290n.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <PC174020051223070824059318442849@msapiro>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>>>>>> "Ben" == Ben Discoe <ben at ahualoa.net> writes:
>
>    Ben> Wow.  I had no idea at all that it was possible to run Apache
>    Ben> _inside_ Cygwin.  The Apache website directs Windows people
>    Ben> to just install and run, so the alternate route is not well
>    Ben> known.
>
>You might want to just take a look at the list of stuff that Cygwin's
>setup.exe supports.  I imagine Apache (some version) is on the list.


Absolutely. I run Cygwin Apache 1.3.29, and 1.3.33 and 2.0.54 are also
available. As I said earlier, this is only for testing and only
accessible locally. I don't think I'd want to run any MS-Windows
server exposed to the world, Cygwin or native.


>    >> Maybe the solution is to run Apache under Cygwin or run a
>    >> mailman only version of Apache under Cygwin that listens on a
>    >> different port.
>
>    Ben> Arrgh, it's hard to imagine that moving _closer_ to Cygwin is
>    Ben> the right direction, when all the trouble seems to stem from
>    Ben> Cygwin itself.
>
>No, the trouble stems from mixing different models of security and
>other OS services.  While Cygwin is a big PIMA, too, there's no doubt
>in my mind that people who are using Cygwin for one app are better off
>using it for apps that cooperate with the first, too.  I do know of a
>few exceptions, but they are all out-and-out bugs in the helper
>applications.


I totally agree with Stephen here.

I'm surprised that Windows Apache can even execute the Cygwin compiled
cgi-bin wrappers and Python at all. If I try to run a Cygwin compiled
and linked program of any sort from a Windows command shell or even
directly from Start->run, I get a fatal error dialog "The procedure
entry point __getreent could not be located in the dynamic link
library cygwin1.dll." Anyway, that part seems to work in your case,
surprising or not.

As Stephen says, mixing different security/protection models in one
system is asking for trouble. Mailman is designed to run in a POSIX
compliant or similar environment. Cygwin has its problems, but it is
the closest thing to that environment that exists on Windows. Further,
the only successful (albeit, perhaps limited) installations of Mailman
on windows that we know of are under Cygwin.

It may be possible to get Mailman to run in a Windows environment
without Cygwin, and it may be valuable to you (Ben) and to others, but
you're on your own in uncharted waters.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mcnutt at utk.edu  Fri Dec 23 18:03:09 2005
From: mcnutt at utk.edu (mcnutt)
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 12:03:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Failed Upgrade: System now down for 2.5 days HELP
Message-ID: <UTK-CLSrRjbDt3HvoFO00000018@utk-cls.UTKCLS>

I foolishly tried to upgrade from mailman 2.0.x to Mailman 2.1.6, and I
heartily repent of my sin.  I have attempted to restore back to my working
version, but its still not running.  Can anyone help me?

Bill McNutt
IT Administrator, UT Center for Literacy Studies
http://cls.coe.utk.edu

-----Original Message-----
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem [mailto:MAILER-DAEMON at cls.coe.utk.edu] 
Sent: Friday, December 23, 2005 11:59 AM
To: mcnutt at utk.edu
Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details

The original message was received at Fri, 23 Dec 2005 11:58:36 -0500 (EST)
from utk-cls.ra.utk.edu [160.36.208.91]

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
"|/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper post cls-news"
    (reason: 1)
    (expanded from: <cls-news at cls.coe.utk.edu>)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/post", line 94, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/post", line 73, in main
    mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 79, in __init__
    self.Load()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 892, in Load
    dict, e = self.__load(dbfile)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 869, in __load
    fp = open(dbfile)
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/usr/local/mailman/lists/cls-news/config.db'
554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 1

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec 23 19:29:51 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 10:29:51 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Failed Upgrade: System now down for 2.5 days
	HELP
In-Reply-To: <UTK-CLSrRjbDt3HvoFO00000018@utk-cls.UTKCLS>
Message-ID: <PC17402005122310295104212a0162b8@msapiro>

mcnutt wrote:
>
>I foolishly tried to upgrade from mailman 2.0.x to Mailman 2.1.6, and I
>heartily repent of my sin.  I have attempted to restore back to my working
>version, but its still not running.  Can anyone help me?
<snip>
>   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/post", line 94, in ?
>    main()
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/post", line 73, in main
>    mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 79, in __init__
>    self.Load()
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 892, in Load
>    dict, e = self.__load(dbfile)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 869, in __load
>    fp = open(dbfile)
>IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
>'/usr/local/mailman/lists/cls-news/config.db'
>554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 1

This trace is not from Mailman 2.1.6 so I assume it is from your old
2.0.x version.

You have a permissions problem. Have you run bin/check_perms since
restoring back?

It seems that the process of upgrading and restoring back may have left
some things with the wrong group ownership or without SETGID.

In particular, the post wrapper is either not SETGID or its group
doesn't have permission to write
'/usr/local/mailman/lists/cls-news/config.db'

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From barry at python.org  Sat Dec 24 00:47:35 2005
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 18:47:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers] filename too long error
	-	stopping list
In-Reply-To: <43AB4347.6000704@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
References: <20051222142655.GA3498@patch.com>
	<20051222152158.GA14240@patch.com> <20051222154037.GA14616@patch.com>
	<43AB4347.6000704@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <1135381655.25760.5.camel@geddy.wooz.org>

On Fri, 2005-12-23 at 09:22 +0900, Tokio Kikuchi wrote:

> May be we should set this default in Defaults.py.in in the next release 
> of 2.1.7. Thoughts?

It's probably a good idea, but also as Stephen says, it might be a good
idea to shorten the filename (keeping the extension) even when this
value is left as False.

-Barry

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From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Sat Dec 24 08:30:36 2005
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 16:30:36 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Released: Mailman 2.1.7b1
Message-ID: <43ACF91C.50801@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Hi all,

I've just released Mailman 2.1.7rc1 Release Candidate.  I'm sorry for 
the violation of file name extension convention because I made a small 
mistake when tagging the release number.  I will be releasing 2.1.7 
final by December 31 if there is no problem.

Please download it from SF or:
  http://mm.tkikuchi.net/mailman-2.1.7rc1.tar.gz

Cheers,

Tokio
-------------------------------------------------------

2.1.7rc1 (24-Dec-2005)

   Security

     - The fix for CAN-2005-0202 has been enhanced to issue an appropriate
       message instead of just quietly dropping ./ and ../ from URLs.

     - A note on CVE-2005-3573: Although the RFC2231 bug example in the
       CVE has been solved in mailman-2.1.6, there may be more cases
       where ToDigest.send_digests() can block regular delivery.
       We put the send_digests() calling part in try - except clause and
       leave a message in the error log if something happened in
       send_digests().  Daily call of cron/senddigests will notify more
       detail to the site administrator.

     - List administrators can no longer change the user's 
option/subscription
       globally.  Site admin can change these only if
       mm_cfg.ALLOW_SITE_ADMIN_COOKIES is set to Yes.

     - Script tag is disallowd in edithtml script.

     - Since probe message for the disabled users may reach unexpected
       persons, the password was excluded from sendProbe() and probe.txt.
       Note that the default value of VERP_PROBE has been set to `No'
       from 2.1.6., thus this change doesn't change the default behavior.

   New Features

     - Always remove DomainKey (and similar) headers (1287546) from messages
       sent to the list.

     - List owners can customize content filter behavior as not to collapse
       multipart/alternative to its first content.  This allows HTML part
       to pass through after other content filtering is done.

   Internationalization

     - New language: Interlingua.

   Bug fixes and other patches


     - Defaults.py.in: SCRUBBER_DONT_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME is set to True
       for safer operation.

     - Fix Scrubber.py mungs quoted-printable bug with introducing
       'X-Mailman-Scrubbed' header for marking that the payload is
       scrubber-munged.  The flag is referenced in ToDigest.py, 
ToArchive.py,
       Decorate.py and Archiver.  Similar problem in ToDigest.py where the
       plain digest is generated is also fixed.

     - Fix Syslog.py to write quopri encoded message when it fail to write
       8-bit characters.

     - Fix MTA/Postfix.py to check aliases group permission in check_perms
       and fix mailman-install document on this matter (1378270).

     - Fix private.py to go to the original URL after authorization 
(1080943).

     - Fix bounce log score messages to be more consistent.

     - Fix bin/remove_members to accept no arguments when both --fromall and
       --file= options are specified.

     - Change cgi-bin and mail wrapper "group not found" error message to be
       more descriptive of the actual problem.

     - Apply the list's ban_list to address changes and admin mass subscribe
       and invite and to confirmations/approvals of address changes,
       subscriptions and invitations.

     - Decode quoted-printable and base64 encoded parts before passing to
       HTML_TO_PLAIN_TEXT_COMMAND (1367783).

     - Remove Approve: header from post - treat as Approved: (1355707).

     - Stop removing line following Approve(d): line in body of post 
(1318883).

     - Remove Approve(d): <password> from all text/* parts in addition the
       initial text/plain part. It still must be the first non-blank line in
       the first text/plain part or it won't be found or removed at all
       (1181161).

     - Log post in post log with true sender, not listname-bounces 
(1287921).

     - Correctly initialize and remember the list's 
default_member_moderation
       attribute in the web list creation page (1263213).

     - Add PEP263 charset in config_list output (1343100).

     - header_filter_rules get lost if accessed directly and needed 
authenti-
       cation by login page (1230865).

     - Obscure email when the poster doesn't set full name in 'From:' 
header.

     - Take preambles and epilogues into account when calculating 
message sizes
       for holding purposes (Mark Sapiro).

     - Logging/Logger.py unicode transform option (1235567).

     - bin/update crashes with bogus files (949117).

     - Bugs and patches: 1212066/1301983 (Date header in create/remove 
notice)



From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Sat Dec 24 08:35:43 2005
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 16:35:43 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.7rc1 (was Re: Released: Mailman 2.1.7b1)
In-Reply-To: <43ACF91C.50801@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
References: <43ACF91C.50801@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <43ACFA4F.3010803@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Oops, Sorry for the typo in the message title.  I mean
    Released: Mailman 2.1.7rc1 Release Candidate


Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I've just released Mailman 2.1.7rc1 Release Candidate.  I'm sorry for 
> the violation of file name extension convention because I made a small 
> mistake when tagging the release number.  I will be releasing 2.1.7 
> final by December 31 if there is no problem.
> 
> Please download it from SF or:
>  http://mm.tkikuchi.net/mailman-2.1.7rc1.tar.gz
> 
> Cheers,



-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/


From nagarajan at iwavesystems.com  Sat Dec 24 09:29:56 2005
From: nagarajan at iwavesystems.com (nagarajan)
Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 13:59:56 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Error
Message-ID: <001a01c60864$3ef12260$7d02a8c0@iwdtp002>


Hello,
    I am using redhat 9.0 I have Installed Mailman Using the RPM  from the redhat9.0 CD. Whenever i am trying to open it i am getting the error the felow.Please let me know the solution.

Thanks 
Nagarajan
System admin iWave Systems

Bug in Mailman version 2.1

We're sorry, we hit a bug!
If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy of this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what happened. Thanks! 

Traceback:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/var/mailman/scripts/driver", line 68, in run_main
    immediate=1)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Logging/StampedLogger.py", line 52, in __init__
    Logger.__init__(self, category, nofail, immediate)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Logger.py", line 49, in __init__
    self.__get_f()
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Logger.py", line 67, in __get_f
    1)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/codecs.py", line 496, in open
    file = __builtin__.open(filename, mode, buffering)
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/log/mailman/error'



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DISCLAIMER:

This e-mail and any attachment (s) is for authorised use by the intended recipient (s) only. It may contain proprietary material, confidential information and/or be subject to the legal privilege of iWave Systems Technologies Private Limited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the originator immediately. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that you are strictly prohibited from retaining, using, copying, alerting or disclosing the content of this message. Thank you for your co-operation. 

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Sat Dec 24 13:11:19 2005
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 13:11:19 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Released: Mailman 2.1.7b1
In-Reply-To: <43ACF91C.50801@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
References: <43ACF91C.50801@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <20051224121119.GD28876@charite.de>

* Tokio Kikuchi <tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp>:
> Hi all,
> 
> I've just released Mailman 2.1.7rc1 Release Candidate.  I'm sorry for 
> the violation of file name extension convention because I made a small 
> mistake when tagging the release number.  I will be releasing 2.1.7 
> final by December 31 if there is no problem.

I got one:

For whatever reason, mailman destroys the Subject: header I use when
sending mail to a list. I use postfix, together with header_checks to
actually LOG the Subject: header:

Mail comes in from mail.charite.de, the Subject: is fine!
Dec 24 13:05:24 webmail postfix/cleanup[3041]: E9C20220BDD: warning: header Subject: webKess Stations- / Abteilungsregistrierung Elisabeth_KH.1049 from mail.charite.de[160.45.207.131]; from=<rootmail at charite.de> to=<webkess at mailman.charite.de> proto=ESMTP helo=<mail.charite.de>

It's delivered into mailman's script:
Dec 24 13:05:25 webmail postfix/local[2972]: E9C20220BDD: to=<webkess at mailman.charite.de>, relay=local, delay=1, status=sent (delivered to command: /home/mailman/mail/mailman post webkess)

Mail comes back from mailman (localhost!):
Dec 24 13:05:26 webmail postfix/smtpd[3039]: connect from localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]
Dec 24 13:05:26 webmail postfix/smtpd[3039]: 8FDB7220BDD: client=localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]
Dec 24 13:05:26 webmail postfix/cleanup[3041]: 8FDB7220BDD: message-id=<20051224120524.E1FEE220690 at mail.charite.de>
Dec 24 13:05:26 webmail postfix/cleanup[3041]: 8FDB7220BDD: warning: header Subject: [webKess] webKess Stations- / Abteilungsregistrierung??Elisabeth_KH.1049 from localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]; from=<webkess-bounces+munged=jant.de at charite.de> to=<munged at jant.de> proto=ESMTP helo=<webmail.charite.de>

As you can see, 
Subject: webKess Stations- / Abteilungsregistrierung Elisabeth_KH.1049
was transformed into
Subject: [webKess] webKess Stations- / Abteilungsregistrierung??Elisabeth_KH.1049

(?? denotes a non-8-bit character). I wonder why a mere "space" sign
needs to be transformed...

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt (i.A. des IT-Zentrums)         Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de
Charite - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin            Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
Gemeinsame Einrichtung von FU- und HU-Berlin    Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-962
IT-Zentrum Standort CBF                 send no mail to spamtrap at charite.de


From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Sat Dec 24 13:21:26 2005
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 13:21:26 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Released: Mailman 2.1.7b1
In-Reply-To: <20051224121119.GD28876@charite.de>
References: <43ACF91C.50801@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
	<20051224121119.GD28876@charite.de>
Message-ID: <20051224122126.GO28876@charite.de>

* Ralf Hildebrandt <Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de>:

> (?? denotes a non-8-bit character).

?? denotes 2 non-printable characters. I'd need to check which ones
EXACTLY.


From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Sat Dec 24 13:29:31 2005
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 13:29:31 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Released: Mailman 2.1.7b1
In-Reply-To: <20051224122126.GO28876@charite.de>
References: <43ACF91C.50801@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
	<20051224121119.GD28876@charite.de>
	<20051224122126.GO28876@charite.de>
Message-ID: <20051224122931.GP28876@charite.de>

* Ralf Hildebrandt <Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de>:
> * Ralf Hildebrandt <Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de>:
> 
> > (?? denotes a non-8-bit character).
> 
> ?? denotes 2 non-printable characters. I'd need to check which ones
> EXACTLY.

Found out: It's a CR LF.

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt (i.A. des IT-Zentrums)         Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de
Charite - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin            Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
Gemeinsame Einrichtung von FU- und HU-Berlin    Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-962
IT-Zentrum Standort CBF                 send no mail to spamtrap at charite.de


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec 24 17:23:20 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 08:23:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Released: Mailman 2.1.7b1
In-Reply-To: <20051224122931.GP28876@charite.de>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512240823200828461969b0@msapiro>

Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:

>As you can see, =
>
>Subject: webKess Stations- / Abteilungsregistrierung Elisabeth_KH.1049
>was transformed into
>Subject: [webKess] webKess Stations- / Abteilungsregistrierung??Elisabeth_KH.1049
>
>(?? denotes a non-8-bit character). I wonder why a mere "space" sign
>needs to be transformed...
>

and

>
>> ?? denotes 2 non-printable characters. I'd need to check which ones
>> EXACTLY.
>
>Found out: It's a CR LF.

So Mailman has folded a long subject according to RFC 2822 section
2.2.3, and it is not being properly unfolded by Postfix for logging.

Or is there some other problem that I'm not seeing?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec 24 17:35:27 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 08:35:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Error
In-Reply-To: <001a01c60864$3ef12260$7d02a8c0@iwdtp002>
Message-ID: <PC1740200512240835270718fbe517a9@msapiro>

nagarajan wrote:

>    I am using redhat 9.0 I have Installed Mailman Using the RPM  from the redhat9.0 CD. Whenever i am trying to open it i am getting the error the felow.Please let me know the solution.
>
>Bug in Mailman version 2.1
>
>We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/var/mailman/scripts/driver", line 68, in run_main
>    immediate=1)
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Logging/StampedLogger.py", line 52, in __init__
>    Logger.__init__(self, category, nofail, immediate)
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Logger.py", line 49, in __init__
>    self.__get_f()
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Logger.py", line 67, in __get_f
>    1)
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/codecs.py", line 496, in open
>    file = __builtin__.open(filename, mode, buffering)
>IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/log/mailman/error'

The immediate problem is Mailman does not have permission to create or
write /var/log/mailman/error. This is a RedHat specific location for
these logs, and there may be a problem with the permissions
established by the rpm you installed.

The /var/log/mailman/ directory should be group 'mailman' and
permissions 2775. Owner is usually 'root' but this doesn't matter.

All files in the /var/log/mailman/ (if any) should be group 'mailman'
and permissions 0664.

This will get past the immediate problem, but then there will probably
be some other error logged to the file and reported.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Sat Dec 24 21:58:47 2005
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 21:58:47 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Released: Mailman 2.1.7b1
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200512240823200828461969b0@msapiro>
References: <20051224122931.GP28876@charite.de>
	<PC1740200512240823200828461969b0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20051224205847.GI14964@charite.de>

* Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>:

> So Mailman has folded a long subject according to RFC 2822 section
> 2.2.3, and it is not being properly unfolded by Postfix for logging.
> 
> Or is there some other problem that I'm not seeing?

The problem is that the user's email client cannot display that folded
Subject: header properly. I would have to ask the local luser to find
out which client that is.

-- 
_________________________________________________

  Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
_________________________________________________

  Ralf Hildebrandt
   i.A. Gesch?ftsbereich Informationsmanagement
   Campus Benjamin Franklin
   Hindenburgdamm 30 | Berlin
   Tel. +49 30 450 570155 | Fax +49 30 450 570962
   Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de
   http://www.charite.de


From munzirtaha at gmail.com  Sun Dec 25 16:05:41 2005
From: munzirtaha at gmail.com (Munzir Taha)
Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2005 18:05:41 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Any problem in listening to localhost for
	anannouncement mailing list instead of my ip.ad.re.ss?
In-Reply-To: <PC174020051221073422032869e5313e@msapiro>
References: <PC174020051221073422032869e5313e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200512251805.45610.munzirtaha@gmail.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

?? ??? ???????? 20 ?? ?????? 1426 18:34, ??? Mark Sapiro:
> Munzir Taha wrote:
> >This is the first time I install a mailing list so I am not sure whether
> > what I am doing is correct or had some side effects. I installed mailman
> > in my lists.mydomain.com where
> >

> >DAEMON_OPTIONS(`Port=smtp,Addr=127.0.0.1, Name=MTA')dnl

> I suppose it would be possible to run an announcement list that
> couldn't receive email, but bounce processing wouldn't work, posting
> would be awkward and subscribing/unsubscribing/option-setting/etc.
> couldn't be done by email.

Exactly. So, I would go the correct path and enable the receiving of emails 
(Mainly be removing the Addr=127.0.0.1 part) instead of doing obscure things. 
Thanks.



- -- 
Munzir Taha
Telecommunications and Electronics Engineer
Maintainer of Fedora Arabic Translation Project
https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-trans-ar
Maintainer of the OpenBugs project page at
http://www.arabic-fedora.org/munzir/OpenBugs.html
Master CIW Designer, ICDL, MOUS, Linux+, LPI 101
Riyadh, SA
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=+kHx
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From munzirtaha at gmail.com  Sun Dec 25 16:50:37 2005
From: munzirtaha at gmail.com (Munzir Taha)
Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2005 18:50:37 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman unicode support
Message-ID: <200512251850.42374.munzirtaha@gmail.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi Sirs,
What is exactly needed to be done I want my mailman installation to support 
unicode on the web interface and the mails sent?

- -- 
Munzir Taha
Telecommunications and Electronics Engineer
Maintainer of Fedora Arabic Translation Project
https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-trans-ar
Maintainer of the OpenBugs project page at
http://www.arabic-fedora.org/munzir/OpenBugs.html
Master CIW Designer, ICDL, MOUS, Linux+, LPI 101
Riyadh, SA
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=Fy7+
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From jwblist at loricamail.com  Sun Dec 25 19:22:27 2005
From: jwblist at loricamail.com (John W. Baxter)
Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2005 10:22:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Released: Mailman 2.1.7b1
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200512240823200828461969b0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <BFD42363.A1D3%jwblist@loricamail.com>

On 12/24/05 8:23 AM, "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:
> 
>> As you can see, =
>> 
>> Subject: webKess Stations- / Abteilungsregistrierung Elisabeth_KH.1049
>> was transformed into
>> Subject: [webKess] webKess Stations- /
>> Abteilungsregistrierung??Elisabeth_KH.1049
>> 
>> (?? denotes a non-8-bit character). I wonder why a mere "space" sign
>> needs to be transformed...
>> 
> 
> and
> 
>> 
>>> ?? denotes 2 non-printable characters. I'd need to check which ones
>>> EXACTLY.
>> 
>> Found out: It's a CR LF.
> 
> So Mailman has folded a long subject according to RFC 2822 section
> 2.2.3, and it is not being properly unfolded by Postfix for logging.
> 
> Or is there some other problem that I'm not seeing?

It doesn't look folded correctly in Ralf's message as received here.  I
don't see whitespace after the CR LF.  Thus the second part isn't a proper
continuation of the header.

This lack of white space could, of course, be an artifact of the tortured
path the header has traveled to reach my screen.

  --John




From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Mon Dec 26 08:57:43 2005
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 08:57:43 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Released: Mailman 2.1.7b1
In-Reply-To: <BFD42363.A1D3%jwblist@loricamail.com>
References: <PC1740200512240823200828461969b0@msapiro>
	<BFD42363.A1D3%jwblist@loricamail.com>
Message-ID: <20051226075743.GD28437@charite.de>

* John W. Baxter <jwblist at loricamail.com>:

> It doesn't look folded correctly in Ralf's message as received here.  I
> don't see whitespace after the CR LF.  Thus the second part isn't a proper
> continuation of the header.

Oh, correct. I didn't notice this either. Good point!!

> This lack of white space could, of course, be an artifact of the tortured
> path the header has traveled to reach my screen.
-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt (i.A. des IT-Zentrums)         Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de
Charite - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin            Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
Gemeinsame Einrichtung von FU- und HU-Berlin    Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-962
IT-Zentrum Standort CBF                 send no mail to spamtrap at charite.de


From scott at spmiller.org  Mon Dec 26 20:12:04 2005
From: scott at spmiller.org (Scott P. Miller)
Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 11:12:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can you discard the entire pending queue for a list?
Message-ID: <43B04084.6080308@spmiller.org>

I have some lists which were "moderated" by my users where they 
basically left the pending queue untouched (great moderation, eh?)

I now have about 10 lists with anywhere between 100 and 400 pending 
messages.  Clicking "discard" 4000 times doesn't appeal to me.

I guess I could re-create the list under a new name, re-import the users 
and delete the old one, but that seems the long way around.  what I need 
is just a way to "discard all" on the pending messages.

Is there an obvious way I am missing?  Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Scott Miller




From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Mon Dec 26 21:19:25 2005
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 15:19:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can you discard the entire pending queue for a
 list?
In-Reply-To: <43B04084.6080308@spmiller.org>
References: <43B04084.6080308@spmiller.org>
Message-ID: <43B0504D.8010109@wingfoot.org>

Scott P. Miller said the following on 12/26/2005 2:12 PM:
> I have some lists which were "moderated" by my users where they 
> basically left the pending queue untouched (great moderation, eh?)
>
> I now have about 10 lists with anywhere between 100 and 400 pending 
> messages.  Clicking "discard" 4000 times doesn't appeal to me.
>
> I guess I could re-create the list under a new name, re-import the users 
> and delete the old one, but that seems the long way around.  what I need 
> is just a way to "discard all" on the pending messages.
>
> Is there an obvious way I am missing?  Any suggestions?
>
>   
"Discard all messages marked "Defer"" would do that...

Best,
--Glenn
(BTW: I find that generally such things happen, because the moderators
in question have no experience with Mailman and don't understand how
things work. I usually do a remote session with new moderators of lists
on my box, so they can see how the interface works, and how the
administrative functions work. I also give them copies of the PDFs
available on the list.org site.)

-- 
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary 
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." 
          ~Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759



From mailbag at thefrogs.net  Mon Dec 26 23:13:21 2005
From: mailbag at thefrogs.net (mailbag)
Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 17:13:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Probe Problems
Message-ID: <20051226221321.GA12569@argentina.genwebserver.com>

Hi,

For some reason, users who have bounced mails back, end up getting the
probe email later - and it includes attachments with all the other
bounced probe emails, which includes other user's passwords to the list.

I haven't been able to track down the cause, nor have I found references
to anyone else having this problem.  Any suggestions would be
appreciated.



From manuel at arteryplanet.net  Tue Dec 27 22:43:29 2005
From: manuel at arteryplanet.net (ArteryPlanet.Net :: Manuel Kissoyan)
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 18:43:29 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] merge archives
Message-ID: <6e8101c60b2e$94516040$6401a8c0@sarna>

Hi,

Wondering if have any script to merge archives.

We saved one of the accounts archives and then deleted and re-created the 
mailing list, were running for a week, now we need merge the saved archives 
with the existing one after the list re-creation. If were another month is 
easy but how you merge same month archives?

Thank you!

From dennis.putnam at aimaudit.com  Wed Dec 28 12:52:38 2005
From: dennis.putnam at aimaudit.com (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 06:52:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Documentation
Message-ID: <7661620E-F5D3-4E2A-B558-E2B1E6964691@aimaudit.com>

Is there a document somewhere, online, that details all the variables  
so templates can be customized? Thanks.

Dennis Putnam
Sr. IT Systems Administrator
AIM Systems, Inc.
11675 Rainwater Dr., Suite 200
Alpharetta, GA  30004
Phone: 678-240-4112
Main Phone: 678-297-0700
FAX: 678-297-2666 or 770-576-1000
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments is  
strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any  
use, dissemination, distribution, or duplication of any part of this  
e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you are not the intended  
recipient, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete all  
copies, including the attachments.




From list at zaide.org  Wed Dec 28 18:19:38 2005
From: list at zaide.org (list)
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 18:19:38 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual hosting + virtual domain mailman
Message-ID: <43B2C92A.9030204@zaide.org>

Hi list,
I'm sure this is a redundant question but i search a quiet good method
to allow my users to get the same maillist name for different domains.
I use Postfix with virtual alias and mailbox suport on a mysql server.
Like: test at test.com is different of test at test.org
On a google/archive search i've read somes solutions :
1/ run more than one mailman, but it is not possible for me.
2/ Use a test-test.com style and canonical postfix method, but the sent
mail is not clearly test at test.com.
3/ Use a patch for mailman
(http://al.blog.free.fr/mailman/mailman-vh-2.1.5.patch or
http://mithrandr.moria.org/blog/139.html). But they don't seem work very
well when i tryed them.

All this solutions don't work for me ...
Do you have a solution? a working patch?
Someone had succeed to do what i want whith the same implementation
(Postfix...)?

thanks.


From Tom at tomsfish.net  Wed Dec 28 21:12:34 2005
From: Tom at tomsfish.net (Tom at tomsfish.net)
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 15:12:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie -  Help
Message-ID: <20051228151234.ngyzcok4oglc0gg4@webmail.tomsfish.net>

I am new to this list and to mailman

My inslation came preinstalled on a server from 1 and 1 using redhat and apache
but NOT python...they have it worked around they claim....anyway...

I can set up lists...go thru all the steps but users cannot subscribe...it says
they have but it never sends out the confirmation email and it doesnt show them
as subscribed users. I have scoured the options and i cant find anythign not set
properly, but newbies can be dummies...so ideas are welcome.

Thanks

Tom



From he at reclaimedcomputers.ca  Wed Dec 28 23:11:19 2005
From: he at reclaimedcomputers.ca (Hugh Esco)
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 14:11:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie -  Help
In-Reply-To: <20051228151234.ngyzcok4oglc0gg4@webmail.tomsfish.net>
References: <20051228151234.ngyzcok4oglc0gg4@webmail.tomsfish.net>
Message-ID: <20051228141119.20cc0936.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>

It sounds to me like the mail server may not yet be serving your domain.  

Can you use a command line tool like mutt, nail, mail or mailx to send out a test message from the host server?  

-- Hugh 

On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 15:12:34 -0500
Tom at tomsfish.net wrote:

> I am new to this list and to mailman
> 
> My inslation came preinstalled on a server from 1 and 1 using redhat and apache
> but NOT python...they have it worked around they claim....anyway...
> 
> I can set up lists...go thru all the steps but users cannot subscribe...it says
> they have but it never sends out the confirmation email and it doesnt show them
> as subscribed users. I have scoured the options and i cant find anythign not set
> properly, but newbies can be dummies...so ideas are welcome.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Tom
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/he%40reclaimedcomputers.ca
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 
> 


-- 
--
Hugh Esco 
250-352-9361
he at reclaimedcomputers.ca
RCK Computer Services 
http://reclaimedcomputers.ca/



From rgetz at blackfin.uclinux.org  Thu Dec 29 04:17:47 2005
From: rgetz at blackfin.uclinux.org (Robin Getz)
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 22:17:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange problem...
Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.0.20051228221202.01ec2a80@ptg1.spd.analog.com>

I am running into a bit of a problem - mail seems to be coming into, and 
being accepted by mailman, and it stacks up in ./qfiles/in/[key].pck files, 
and nothing every seems to be sent out.

Any ideas?

Thanks
-Robin

Running SuSe 9.3 if that makes a difference, all the mailman scripts seem 
to be running...

?



From Jason at Weatherserver.net  Thu Dec 29 06:56:31 2005
From: Jason at Weatherserver.net (Jason (WeatherServer))
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 00:56:31 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery Rates
Message-ID: <000501c60c3c$9e713c30$1400000a@workstation>

Anyone know the best numbers to have in Delivery Rates in PostFix for 
mailman lists?


Or is there a better server to use with mailman then postfix







From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Dec 29 07:17:13 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 00:17:13 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery Rates
In-Reply-To: <000501c60c3c$9e713c30$1400000a@workstation>
References: <000501c60c3c$9e713c30$1400000a@workstation>
Message-ID: <p06200759bfd92ea6bda0@[192.168.1.100]>

At 12:56 AM -0500 2005-12-29, Jason (WeatherServer) wrote:

>  Anyone know the best numbers to have in Delivery Rates in PostFix for
>  mailman lists?

	Postfix doesn't do that sort of thing.  Moreover, if postfix did 
do that sort of thing, then you should be asking that question on a 
postfix-related mailing list and not mailman-users.

>  Or is there a better server to use with mailman then postfix

	Postfix is an excellent MTA to use for mailing lists, but if 
you're using a residential line with usage caps (such as limits on 
how many messages you can send per hour or per day) for a function 
like this, you are likely to find yourself seriously disappointed in 
the service at some point in time in the future -- perhaps in the 
distant future, perhaps not-so-distant.

	See also FAQ 4.51.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Dec 29 07:53:07 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 00:53:07 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Command-line moderation...
Message-ID: <p0620075abfd936f9b112@[192.168.1.100]>

Folks,

	I recently ran into a minor problem, and took the opportunity to 
update the FAQ with the latest information I've been able to find so 
far on the topic.


	In another open-source project I'm involved with, I also manage 
the mail server and the mailing list services.  Through a fault of my 
own, one of the lists on this server hasn't seen any moderation in 
weeks, or maybe months.  Hundreds, possibly thousands, of spam 
messages built up in the moderation queue -- this is a very popular 
address for spammers, as far as I can tell.

	Of course, the web interface was way too bloody slow.  So, I 
tried to find some of those command-line moderation tools that we've 
talked about before.  Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find very much 
that was useful.  I did find Skip's "mmfold.py" script, but on our 
server we do the same HTTP/HTTPS modification as outlined in FAQ 
4.27, but my command-line web client doesn't support HTTPS, so 
mmfold.py doesn't help me.


	Anyway, I pulled together all the rest of the information I know 
on the subject, and put it into FAQ entry 3.61.  Now, if we can get 
some of those "large list" sites to contribute their command-line 
moderation tools, the entire rest of the Mailman community will 
benefit.

	Meanwhile, I'm going to go make yet another update to my "mmdsr" 
script so that I won't get blind-sided again, at least not in this 
same way.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From maeder+mm at mathconsult.ch  Thu Dec 29 10:30:12 2005
From: maeder+mm at mathconsult.ch (maeder+mm at mathconsult.ch)
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 10:30:12 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delivering contents of private archive,
	bad MIME types
Message-ID: <4397.1135848612@denebola>

for a private archive, the Cgi/private script not only checks authentication/
authorisation, but also delivers the contents. (This task would probably
better be left to Apache.) Here's one problem:

the script has its own logic for determining the MIME type of attachments,
separate from Apache. The one private list I am running accepts attachments
of many types (images, vrml files, zip archives, ...), and I let MHonArc
do the archiving. My members told me that they could not view vrml files,
and indeed Cgi/private treats them as HTML. It uses the Python library
mimemtypes.py to guess the mime type of files, and this in turn uses
a random-looking list of files to check, in my case (Python 2.3) it is

knownfiles = [
    "/etc/mime.types",
    "/usr/local/etc/httpd/conf/mime.types",
    "/usr/local/lib/netscape/mime.types",
    "/usr/local/etc/httpd/conf/mime.types",     # Apache 1.2
    "/usr/local/etc/mime.types",                # Apache 1.3
    ]

as a quick fix, I edited Cgi/private.py to override this with a line

	mimetypes.init(["/www/apache/conf/mime.types"])

which is where my Apache lives. In this way it is at least synchronized
with Apache. However, this is a bad hack. If it is deemed ok that Mailman
takes on the role of Web server, there should probably be a config option
that points to the mime.types file to use.

Roman Maeder



From martin at bugs.unl.edu.ar  Thu Dec 29 12:13:41 2005
From: martin at bugs.unl.edu.ar (Lic. Martin Marques)
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 08:13:41 -0300 (ART)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] permission problems
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0512290811310.25133@bugs.unl.edu.ar>

I started having permission problems with mailman just now. All messages 
sent to the lists get shunt, and when I try to unshunt them I get these 
errors in mailman/error log:

Dec 28 21:05:41 2005 (23314) Archive file access failure:
         /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/depto.mbox/depto.mbox [Errno 13] 
Permission
denied: '/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/depto.mbox/depto.mbox'
Dec 28 21:05:41 2005 (23314) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 13] 
Permission denied:
'/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/depto.mbox/depto.mbox'
Dec 28 21:05:41 2005 (23314) Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in 
_dispose
     mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 199, in 
ArchiveMail
     self.__archive_to_mbox(msg)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 168, in 
__archive_to_mbox
     mbox = self.__archive_file(afn)
   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 156, in 
__archive_file
     return Mailbox.Mailbox(open(afn, 'a+'))
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/depto.mbox/depto.mbox'


Now permissions look OK, and check_perms finishes with everything OK:

[root at newweb mailman]# ./bin/check_perms
No se han encontrado problemas
[root at newweb mailman]# ls -ld 
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/depto.mbox/
drwxrwsr-x  2 root mailman 4096 ene  7  2005
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/depto.mbox/

What is wrong, and why did it work OK until now?

I'm using FC4 with mailman 2.1.5.

--
  08:10:01 up 6 days, 19:22,  1 user,  load average: 0.01, 0.10, 0.53
---------------------------------------------------------
Lic. Mart?n Marqu?s         |   SELECT 'mmarques' || 
Centro de Telem?tica        |       '@' || 'unl.edu.ar';
Universidad Nacional        |   DBA, Programador,
     del Litoral             |   Administrador
---------------------------------------------------------

From jwblist at loricamail.com  Thu Dec 29 18:49:04 2005
From: jwblist at loricamail.com (John W. Baxter)
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 09:49:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Released: Mailman 2.1.7b1
In-Reply-To: <20051226075743.GD28437@charite.de>
Message-ID: <BFD96190.A240%jwblist@loricamail.com>

On 12/25/05 11:57 PM, "Ralf Hildebrandt" <Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de>
wrote:

> * John W. Baxter <jwblist at loricamail.com>:
> 
>> It doesn't look folded correctly in Ralf's message as received here.  I
>> don't see whitespace after the CR LF.  Thus the second part isn't a proper
>> continuation of the header.
> 
> Oh, correct. I didn't notice this either. Good point!!
> 
>> This lack of white space could, of course, be an artifact of the tortured
>> path the header has traveled to reach my screen.

Ralf, it would be useful to know what version of Python you are using with
Mailman.

As I read CookHeaders.py, the relevant code there looks right with respect
to folding headers, but it is subject to correct behavior in the str()
operation applied to an email.Header object.  That is, the
email.Header.encode() function.  This code has greatly changed between
Python 2.3 and 2.4, and I'd rather not work on understanding both forms.

  --John




From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Thu Dec 29 19:27:30 2005
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 19:27:30 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Released: Mailman 2.1.7b1
In-Reply-To: <BFD96190.A240%jwblist@loricamail.com>
References: <20051226075743.GD28437@charite.de>
	<BFD96190.A240%jwblist@loricamail.com>
Message-ID: <20051229182729.GA17169@charite.de>

* John W. Baxter <jwblist at loricamail.com>:

> Ralf, it would be useful to know what version of Python you are using with
> Mailman.

Python 2.3.5 (#2, Aug 30 2005, 15:50:26) 
[GCC 4.0.2 20050821 (prerelease) (Debian 4.0.1-6)] on linux2
 
> As I read CookHeaders.py, the relevant code there looks right with respect
> to folding headers, but it is subject to correct behavior in the str()
> operation applied to an email.Header object.  That is, the
> email.Header.encode() function.  This code has greatly changed between
> Python 2.3 and 2.4, and I'd rather not work on understanding both forms.

So I should go for python 2.4?

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt (i.A. des IT-Zentrums)         Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de
Charite - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin            Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
Gemeinsame Einrichtung von FU- und HU-Berlin    Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-962
IT-Zentrum Standort CBF                 send no mail to spamtrap at charite.de


From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Thu Dec 29 20:11:58 2005
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 20:11:58 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Released: Mailman 2.1.7b1
In-Reply-To: <20051229182729.GA17169@charite.de>
References: <20051226075743.GD28437@charite.de>
	<BFD96190.A240%jwblist@loricamail.com>
	<20051229182729.GA17169@charite.de>
Message-ID: <20051229191158.GG17169@charite.de>

* Ralf Hildebrandt <Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de>:

> So I should go for python 2.4?

I installed python2.4, stopped the queuerunner and linked
/usr/bin/python2.4 <- /usr/bin/python and restarted the queuerunner.

The "problem" seems to remain. So, I had a closer look:

1) mutt displays the Subject: header OK.
2) Postfix still shows:

warning: header Subject: [webKess] webKess Stations- / Abteilungsregistrierung??Elisabeth_KH.1049

in it's log, as before - but that's normal. When I saved the mail and
opened in a hex editor, I found the two "?" to be

0A (LF) 09 (TAB)

Mark said:

"So Mailman has folded a long subject according to RFC 2822 section 2.2.3"

This section says:

"The general rule is that wherever this standard allows for folding white
space (not simply WSP characters), a CRLF may be inserted before any WSP."

But it's only a LF, not a CR LF -- and the space that used to be in the
Subject: has been transformed into a TAB character instead. So I'm not
sure if that's correct folding (even when if mutt displays it correctly!)
   
-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt (i.A. des IT-Zentrums)         Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de
Charite - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin            Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
Gemeinsame Einrichtung von FU- und HU-Berlin    Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-962
IT-Zentrum Standort CBF                 send no mail to spamtrap at charite.de


From jwblist at loricamail.com  Fri Dec 30 03:11:44 2005
From: jwblist at loricamail.com (John W. Baxter)
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 18:11:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Released: Mailman 2.1.7b1
In-Reply-To: <20051229191158.GG17169@charite.de>
Message-ID: <BFD9D760.A252%jwblist@loricamail.com>

On 12/29/05 11:11 AM, "Ralf Hildebrandt" <Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de>
wrote:

> * Ralf Hildebrandt <Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de>:
> 
>> So I should go for python 2.4?
> 
> I installed python2.4, stopped the queuerunner and linked
> /usr/bin/python2.4 <- /usr/bin/python and restarted the queuerunner.
> 
> The "problem" seems to remain. So, I had a closer look:
> 
> 1) mutt displays the Subject: header OK.
> 2) Postfix still shows:
> 
> warning: header Subject: [webKess] webKess Stations- /
> Abteilungsregistrierung??Elisabeth_KH.1049
> 
> in it's log, as before - but that's normal. When I saved the mail and
> opened in a hex editor, I found the two "?" to be
> 
> 0A (LF) 09 (TAB)
> 
> Mark said:
> 
> "So Mailman has folded a long subject according to RFC 2822 section 2.2.3"
> 
> This section says:
> 
> "The general rule is that wherever this standard allows for folding white
> space (not simply WSP characters), a CRLF may be inserted before any WSP."
> 
> But it's only a LF, not a CR LF -- and the space that used to be in the
> Subject: has been transformed into a TAB character instead. So I'm not
> sure if that's correct folding (even when if mutt displays it correctly!)
>    


Ah.  There is a difference between the line endings on the wire, which the
RFC is discussing, and the line endings on some particular machine.  On the
wire, the <LF><TAB> sequence will (almost certainly) become <CR><LF><TAB>
and then (probably) switch back upon arrival on a Unix machine.  (Or stay as
is on Windows or become <CR><TAB> on Mac OS 9 and below.)

The <line-ending><TAB> sequence is good as it provides the whitespace needed
to make the second part a continuation.

As I recall, there was a mail program involved which didn't like the folded
header?

It appears that Mailman is doing the right thing.  (At least the designed
thing...the <TAB> rather than <space> bothers some, and the current code
uses <space> if a header comes in folded by a space.  That's what the little
dance in CookHeaders.py is working out.  TAB is used if an unfolded Subject:
expands enough due to the prefix being added that it now needs to be
folded.)


  John




From Hugo.Rodriguez at alhambra-eidos.com  Fri Dec 30 09:03:35 2005
From: Hugo.Rodriguez at alhambra-eidos.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Hugo_Rodr=EDguez_Pinillos?=)
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 09:03:35 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question (Bounce Management)
Message-ID: <5383F55524AE6748B360645F92DCCB3F01885D@ALHM3SRV.ae.local>

Hello,

 

I'm using the mailman software and I have a question.

When the bounce emails are generated I receive them in my email account but I would need to have another type of management of those emails. For example, one inform of those emails or statistics of them.

 

Might you help me? Exits any software for this or any option for doing this?

 

Thank you very much.

Hugo



From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Fri Dec 30 09:51:03 2005
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 09:51:03 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Released: Mailman 2.1.7b1
In-Reply-To: <BFD9D760.A252%jwblist@loricamail.com>
References: <20051229191158.GG17169@charite.de>
	<BFD9D760.A252%jwblist@loricamail.com>
Message-ID: <20051230085103.GA30173@charite.de>

* John W. Baxter <jwblist at loricamail.com>:

> Ah.  There is a difference between the line endings on the wire, which the
> RFC is discussing, and the line endings on some particular machine.  On the
> wire, the <LF><TAB> sequence will (almost certainly) become <CR><LF><TAB>
> and then (probably) switch back upon arrival on a Unix machine.  (Or stay as
> is on Windows or become <CR><TAB> on Mac OS 9 and below.)

Yes.
 
> The <line-ending><TAB> sequence is good as it provides the whitespace
> needed to make the second part a continuation.

> As I recall, there was a mail program involved which didn't like the
> folded header?

Not in my own test. The program that choked was some outlook version.

> It appears that Mailman is doing the right thing.  (At least the
> designed thing...the <TAB> rather than <space> bothers some, and the
> current code uses <space> if a header comes in folded by a space.
> That's what the little dance in CookHeaders.py is working out.  TAB is
> used if an unfolded Subject: expands enough due to the prefix being
> added that it now needs to be folded.)

I still think a space should be folded <CR><LF>space and not <CR><LF><Tab>
But then I don't care, since MY MUA displays that correctly, and
Outlook Whatever is almost always wrong anyway...

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt (i.A. des IT-Zentrums)         Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de
Charite - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin            Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
Gemeinsame Einrichtung von FU- und HU-Berlin    Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-962
IT-Zentrum Standort CBF                 send no mail to spamtrap at charite.de


From pete at smtl.co.uk  Fri Dec 30 14:01:41 2005
From: pete at smtl.co.uk (Pete Phillips)
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 13:01:41 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moderator flag for new users turned off
Message-ID: <20051230130141.D08A611B43@lap1.smtl.co.uk>


Hi

I appear to have a problem with mailman. Today, 5 messages were sent to
the whole list which appear to be related to subscription confirmation
messages. The first was a confirmation message, 
	[Smtlinfo] Fw: confirm 16566a786346f795c9a977f70b61568a613e3875
the rest were 
	"Re: [Smtlinfo] Fw: confirm 16566a786346f795c9a977f70b61568a613e3875" 

[I have changed the confirmation code].

These messages are being sent to the whole list (the list was,I thought,
moderated!).

Having looked at the postfix logs, nothing strange appesared to be going
on. However, when I looked at the mailman admin screen for the list, I
noted that the flag for moderating all mail for new members in the
Privacy Options screen had been set to NO. I have reset this to YES and
in the membership screen turned on moderation for all members.

My question is: 

   Has anyone seen this behaviour before, and can they give me a hint to
   track the problem down ? 

I am running mailman-2.1.4-83.13 on Suse enterprise server.  I performed
an Online Update with SLES about 2 weeks ago, and I *think* it upgraded
mailman at the time (I'm not sure though) but the problem only surfaced
yesterday afternoon.


Many thanks,
Pete

--
Pete Phillips, Acting Director,     |   http://www.smtl.co.uk/
Surgical Materials Testing Lab,     |   http://www.worldwidewounds.com/
Princess of Wales Hospital, S Wales |   http://www.dressings.org/
Tel/Fax: +44 1656-752820/30         |   pete at smtl.co.uk


From martin at bugs.unl.edu.ar  Fri Dec 30 16:00:41 2005
From: martin at bugs.unl.edu.ar (Lic. Martin Marques)
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 12:00:41 -0300 (ART)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Fixed] Re: Permission oddity (was: problems with
	mailman)
In-Reply-To: <1135885325.26187.590.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0512282033130.20077@bugs.unl.edu.ar>
	<Pine.LNX.4.61.0512290856100.25684@bugs.unl.edu.ar>
	<1135885325.26187.590.camel@serendipity.dogma.lan>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0512301154170.3061@bugs.unl.edu.ar>

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005, Alexander Dalloz wrote:

> If you face such issues where the unix permissions match but you get
> permission denied, then have a look at the SELinux logging output
> (either messages syslog file or when auditd runs in audit.log). You may
> temporary set SELinux into permissive mode by following command:
> setenfore=0. In that mode SELinux just documents what it thinks about
> actions of the system and logs them, but does not deny these actions.

No, I have SELinux off there.

The problem was at a higher directory for which mailman did not have 
execute (move into the directory) permission, so it couldn't stat the file 
(or directory in this case) because it counldn't get there.

The strange thing is that mailman's check_perms said that everything was 
OK, so I thing the logic of that script should get changed (sending a 
mail to the mailman list so they know).

--
  11:50:02 up 7 days, 23:02,  1 user,  load average: 0.00, 0.02, 0.00
---------------------------------------------------------
Lic. Mart?n Marqu?s         |   SELECT 'mmarques' || 
Centro de Telem?tica        |       '@' || 'unl.edu.ar';
Universidad Nacional        |   DBA, Programador,
     del Litoral             |   Administrador
---------------------------------------------------------

From andy at bardwellconsulting.com  Fri Dec 30 15:56:52 2005
From: andy at bardwellconsulting.com (Andy Bardwell)
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 07:56:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help sending to multiple lists
Message-ID: <003001c60d51$461dd4b0$6501a8c0@HPNC6000>

I am working with a community radio station which has multiple lists in
Mailman that are used to contact volunteers.  A volunteer can be on
several of the lists.  We frequently want to send to all volunteers.  Is
there a way to send to all the lists, with out duplicates?  One way this
could happen would be to merge all the lists, eliminate duplicates, and
send to the resulting list.  Is there a script that will do this or some
other way of accomplishing sending an email to multiple lists without
duplicates?  Any suggestions welcome.
 
Bardwell Consulting 
Robert A(ndy) Bardwell, Ph.D.
4801 W. Yale Ave.
Denver, CO  80219
Voice:  303-934-3851
Cell:  720-219-3627
Fax:  303-975-8513
www.bardwellconsulting.com
 


From info at designhosting.biz  Fri Dec 30 17:49:46 2005
From: info at designhosting.biz (Melinda Odom)
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 10:49:46 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] export mailman lists from server?
Message-ID: <OHEMIKFDMHLDNJAPNOLEAEAHGEAA.info@designhosting.biz>

Hi,

Is it possible to export a mailman list of email addresses from Plesk or the
server? I have a linux server running Plesk 7.5.4 reloaded for the
administration.

If so, how would you do it?

Thanks!

Sincerely,
Melinda Odom
www.designhosting.biz
479-471-0891


--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.9/217 - Release Date: 12/30/2005


From paul.williams at uwex.edu  Fri Dec 30 20:55:52 2005
From: paul.williams at uwex.edu (Paul Williams)
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 13:55:52 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrade problems  from 2.1.5 to 2.1.6
In-Reply-To: <mailman.38.1134126020.14750.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.38.1134126020.14750.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <43B590C8.9000907@uwex.edu>

I am running mailman-2.1.5 on a redhat linux AS 4 system with
all the latest redhat fixes.

I just ran the mailman-2.1.6 upgrade and encountered the following messages
for each (but not all my lists)

Updating mailing list: 4h-northern^M
Updating the held requests database.^M
- updating old private mbox file^M
    looks like you have a really recent CVS installation...^M
    you're either one brave soul, or you already ran me^M
- updating old public mbox file^M
Fixing language templates: 4h-northern^M

followed by

Updating Usenet watermarks^M
- nothing to update here^M
Updating Mailman 2.1.4 pending.pck database^M
WARNING: Ignoring duplicate pending ID: 7.^M
WARNING: Ignoring duplicate pending ID: 5.^M
WARNING: Ignoring duplicate pending ID: 10.^M
updating old qfiles^M
Traceback (most recent call last):^M
  File "bin/update", line 780, in ?^M
    errors = main()^M
  File "bin/update", line 709, in main^M
    update_qfiles()^M
  File "bin/update", line 414, in update_qfiles^M
    for filename in os.listdir(mm_cfg.QUEUE_DIR):^M
OSError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/var/spool/mailman/qfiles'^M
make: *** [update] Error 1^M
[root at shad mailman-2.1.6]# exit^M
exit^M

I have not started the upgraded mailman yet.

I don't know where it picked up /var/spool/mailman/qfiles
as the qfiles directory is /opt/mailman/qfiles.

Is the above actually a serious problem?
Is there additional steps the system must run?

If so what do I need to do to fix things?

I was not able to make a "local" backup of the archive list
as it is about 12G in size, although I do have a backup on
our main central backup system---I would prefer not to
need to recover from there as it would take a fair
amount of time to download.

Any help/clarification as to what happened is appreciated.

paulw


From paul.williams at uwex.edu  Fri Dec 30 22:05:46 2005
From: paul.williams at uwex.edu (Paul Williams)
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 15:05:46 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrade problems  from 2.1.5 to 2.1.6
In-Reply-To: <43B590C8.9000907@uwex.edu>
References: <mailman.38.1134126020.14750.mailman-users@python.org>
	<43B590C8.9000907@uwex.edu>
Message-ID: <43B5A12A.6090108@uwex.edu>

I had 2 problems which I finally discoved by following
through on the error messages:

1)  I had stopped the web server and sendmail, but forgot
    to stop mailman.  Duhhhh.

2)  I discovered a problem with ~mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py
    It had a line in it 

        QUEUE_DIR   = '/var/spool/mailman/qfiles'

    but the actual qfiles were in a different location
    so I made the following substitution.

        QUEUE_DIR   = '/opt/mailman/qfiles'

     The update program was using this file name which
     was causing a problem.

That seemed to make things happy.


paulw

Paul Williams wrote:
> I am running mailman-2.1.5 on a redhat linux AS 4 system with
> all the latest redhat fixes.
> 
> I just ran the mailman-2.1.6 upgrade and encountered the following messages
> for each (but not all my lists)
> 
> Updating mailing list: 4h-northern^M
> Updating the held requests database.^M
> - updating old private mbox file^M
>    looks like you have a really recent CVS installation...^M
>    you're either one brave soul, or you already ran me^M
> - updating old public mbox file^M
> Fixing language templates: 4h-northern^M
> 
> followed by
> 
> Updating Usenet watermarks^M
> - nothing to update here^M
> Updating Mailman 2.1.4 pending.pck database^M
> WARNING: Ignoring duplicate pending ID: 7.^M
> WARNING: Ignoring duplicate pending ID: 5.^M
> WARNING: Ignoring duplicate pending ID: 10.^M
> updating old qfiles^M
> Traceback (most recent call last):^M
>  File "bin/update", line 780, in ?^M
>    errors = main()^M
>  File "bin/update", line 709, in main^M
>    update_qfiles()^M
>  File "bin/update", line 414, in update_qfiles^M
>    for filename in os.listdir(mm_cfg.QUEUE_DIR):^M
> OSError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/var/spool/mailman/qfiles'^M
> make: *** [update] Error 1^M
> [root at shad mailman-2.1.6]# exit^M
> exit^M
> 
> I have not started the upgraded mailman yet.
> 
> I don't know where it picked up /var/spool/mailman/qfiles
> as the qfiles directory is /opt/mailman/qfiles.
> 
> Is the above actually a serious problem?
> Is there additional steps the system must run?
> 
> If so what do I need to do to fix things?
> 
> I was not able to make a "local" backup of the archive list
> as it is about 12G in size, although I do have a backup on
> our main central backup system---I would prefer not to
> need to recover from there as it would take a fair
> amount of time to download.
> 
> Any help/clarification as to what happened is appreciated.
> 
> paulw

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Paul F. Williams, Network Administrator, Information Systems
UW-Extension, 432 N. Lake St., Madison, WI 53706
paul.williams at uwex.edu, 608-262-6011, FAX 608-262-2343
------------------------------------------------------------


From monurergin at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 30 23:04:17 2005
From: monurergin at yahoo.com (M. Onur ERGiN)
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 14:04:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] falling back to login screen
Message-ID: <20051230220417.62732.qmail@web30313.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello, 
I am running mailman on a RH9 sever, which has qmail and apache.
Everything was very fine since I installed mailman (it's been about 6 months). but lately, I can not make any changes using admin interface.
Every single click on links or form submissions causes me to fall back to the login screen and no changes are saved. I cannot change membership preferences, or I can't approve/discard/reject/defer pending messages.

I searched through the list archives, but couldn't achieve to find the same prolem. 

What I have recently done on the server was:

I updated httpd from 2.0.xxx to 2.0.40-21.11
I changed the permissions of all the files in /sbin /usr/bin /usr/sbin 
to o-x and back to o+x (don't ask me why...) Also, some files that had not o+x perm previously, have it now. I don't remember which were they.


And when I do ~mailman/bin/check_perms I only get:
Warning: Private archive directory is other-executable (o+x).
         This could allow other users on your system to read private archives.
         If you're on a shared multiuser system, you should consult the
         installation manual on how to fix this.
No problems found

Any help/idea will be appreciated.

Happy new year, and best wishes.
Onur.


		
---------------------------------
 Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less

From monurergin at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 31 00:47:28 2005
From: monurergin at yahoo.com (M. Onur ERGiN)
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 15:47:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] falling back to login screen
In-Reply-To: <2624A306-B9CB-4B0C-A5B8-F0BFE541140C@memphis.edu>
Message-ID: <20051230234728.21995.qmail@web30302.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Oh, I forgot to add this info. 
This is not a problem occuring on only one computer. Anyone who tries to access the web interface (admin, all moderators, etc) encounter this problem. 
So, it must be something not related to cookies, right?
Regards.

Onur.
Research assistant and System Admin at Yeditepe University.

Dan Phillips <dhphllps at memphis.edu> wrote: On Dec 30, 2005, at 4:04 PM, M. Onur ERGiN wrote:
> I am running mailman on a RH9 sever, which has qmail and apache.
> Everything was very fine since I installed mailman (it's been about  
> 6 months). but lately, I can not make any changes using admin  
> interface.
> Every single click on links or form submissions causes me to fall  
> back to the login screen and no changes are saved. I cannot change  
> membership preferences, or I can't approve/discard/reject/defer  
> pending messages.

One possibility: this is the primary symptom of turning off cookies  
in your web browser.

Dan


================================
Dan Phillips
Associate Professor of Horn, University of Memphis
site administrator: music.memphis.edu





		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year. 

From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Sat Dec 31 14:02:23 2005
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 22:02:23 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RELEASED Mailman 2.1.7
Message-ID: <43B6815F.4060302@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

I'm pleased to announce the release of GNU Mailman 2.1.7.  This
is a significant release, which includes security enhancement
fixes, a new language (ia: Interlingua) support, a couple of new
features, and many bug fixes.

Mailman is free software for managing email mailing lists and
e-newsletters.

This release enhances the fixes for CAN-2005-0202 and CVE-2005-3573
which were fixed in mailman release 2.1.6, and reduces the chance of
list admin privilege abuse.  Because of these and other fixes, it
is highly recommended that all sites update to 2.1.7.

For more information, see:

    http://mailman.sourceforge.net/

For links to download the Mailman 2.1.7 source tarball, see:

    http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=103

Best regards and a happy new year!

-- 
Tokio Kikuchi



From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 31 16:20:58 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 07:20:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] manual upgrade (was: RELEASED Mailman 2.1.7)
In-Reply-To: <43B6815F.4060302@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <20051231152058.46514.qmail@web30409.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi,

I normally build mailman (./configure; make install) on a dev system then tar/rsync it to a production machine.  I checked the UPGRADING notes in the 2.1.7 release and there is no mention of anything (i.e. withlist, fix_url, etc) that needs to be done when upgrading from 2.1.5 to 2.1.7.    Are lists (and specifically everything in "--with-var-prefix") from a 2.1.5 install compatible with 2.1.7?  If not, what post-install actions need to be taken to upgrade an existing system from 2.1.5 to 2.1.7?

Thanks, and Thank you MM Developers for this latest release.

-Jim P.

----- Original Message ----
From: Tokio Kikuchi <tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
To: python-announce at python.org; mailman-announce at python.org
Cc: mailman-developers at python.org; mailman-users at python.org; info-gnu at gnu.org
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 8:02:23 AM
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RELEASED Mailman 2.1.7

I'm pleased to announce the release of GNU Mailman 2.1.7.  This
is a significant release, which includes security enhancement
fixes, a new language (ia: Interlingua) support, a couple of new
features, and many bug fixes.

Mailman is free software for managing email mailing lists and
e-newsletters.

This release enhances the fixes for CAN-2005-0202 and CVE-2005-3573
which were fixed in mailman release 2.1.6, and reduces the chance of
list admin privilege abuse.  Because of these and other fixes, it
is highly recommended that all sites update to 2.1.7.

For more information, see:

    http://mailman.sourceforge.net/

For links to download the Mailman 2.1.7 source tarball, see:

    http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=103

Best regards and a happy new year!

-- 
Tokio Kikuchi

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jimpop%40yahoo.com

Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp





From cwieland at uci.edu  Sat Dec 31 16:54:20 2005
From: cwieland at uci.edu (Con Wieland)
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 07:54:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error in Log file: locks
Message-ID: <9C17B718-42AD-4804-9F98-98A3C097E18D@uci.edu>

I get the following errors

  2   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ?
    2   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main
    2   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/VirginRunner.py", line  
38, in _dispose
    2   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 65,  
in run
    2   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 160,  
in _onefile
    2   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 110,  
in _oneloop
    2   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py",  
line 115, in _dispose
    2   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 159, in Lock
    2   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 416, in  
__writelog
    2     traceback.print_stack(file=logf)
    2     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
    2     self.__lock.lock(timeout)
    2     return IncomingRunner._dispose(self, mlist, msg, msgdata)
    2     qrunner.run()
    2     mlist.Lock(timeout=mm_cfg.LIST_LOCK_TIMEOUT)
    2     main()
    2     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
    2     filecnt = self._oneloop()
    1 mailman.lock unexpected linkcount: -1
    1 mailman.lock lifetime has expired, breaking
    1   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 306, in lock
    1   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 287, in lock
    1     self.__linkcount(), important=True)
    1     important=True)

an ls -l on /usr/local/mailman/locks

bash-2.05$ ls -l
total 6
-rw-rw-r--   1 nobody         71 Sep 29 03:18 casa- 
chavez.lock.maillists.nac.uci.edu.8797.68
-rw-rw-r--   1 mailman         0 Sep  1 08:04  
imwest.lock.maillists.nac.uci.edu.6799.248
-rw-rw-r--   2 mailman        66 Jan  1  2006 master-qrunner
-rw-rw-r--   2 mailman        66 Jan  1  2006 master- 
qrunner.maillists.nac.uci.edu.7087
-rw-rw-r--   1 nobody         64 Jul 24  2004  
ucdc.lock.maillists.nac.uci.edu.15367.0
-rw-rw-r--   1 nobody         64 Jul 24  2004  
ucdc.lock.maillists.nac.uci.edu.15368.0
-rw-rw-r--   1 nobody         64 Jul 24  2004  
ucdc.lock.maillists.nac.uci.edu.15369.0


any ideas what's going on?  Why is the date on master-qrunner a day  
ahead of my system. I checked using 'date'? Can these be deleted?

Thanks in advance
And thanks for the new version MM Developers rock!

Con WIeland
Network and Academic Computing Services
University of California at Irvine

From tag at cs.utah.edu  Sat Dec 31 19:23:04 2005
From: tag at cs.utah.edu (Todd A Green)
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 11:23:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RELEASED Mailman 2.1.7
In-Reply-To: <43B6815F.4060302@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
References: <43B6815F.4060302@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <43B6CC88.2080405@cs.utah.edu>

I'm having issues during the make install.  Configured with:

./configure --prefix=/usr/local/pkgs/mailman-2.1.7 
--with-urlhost=mailman-test.cs.utah.edu --with-mailhost=cs.utah.edu 
--with-cgi-gid=mailman --with-mail-gid=mailman

make generate no errors/warnings

But the install goes into an infinite loop:

Creating directory hierarchy /usr/local/pkgs/mailman-2.1.7/cgi-bin
mkdir /usr/local/pkgs/mailman-2.1.7/cgi-bin
Creating directory hierarchy /usr/local/pkgs/mailman-2.1.7/mail
mkdir /usr/local/pkgs/mailman-2.1.7/mail
/bin/sh: line 0: cd: bin: Not a directory
make[1]: Entering directory 
`/uusoc/facility/sys/src/mailman/SuSE-9.2/mailman-2.1.7'
Creating architecture independent directories...
chmod o-r /usr/local/pkgs/mailman-2.1.7/archives/private
Creating architecture dependent directories...
/bin/sh: line 0: cd: bin: Not a directory
make[2]: Entering directory 
`/uusoc/facility/sys/src/mailman/SuSE-9.2/mailman-2.1.7'
Creating architecture independent directories...
chmod o-r /usr/local/pkgs/mailman-2.1.7/archives/private
Creating architecture dependent directories...
/bin/sh: line 0: cd: bin: Not a directory

Todd


From tag at cs.utah.edu  Sat Dec 31 20:03:05 2005
From: tag at cs.utah.edu (Todd A Green)
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 12:03:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RELEASED Mailman 2.1.7
In-Reply-To: <43B6CC88.2080405@cs.utah.edu>
References: <43B6815F.4060302@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <43B6CC88.2080405@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <43B6D5E9.8050407@cs.utah.edu>

Todd A Green wrote:
> I'm having issues during the make install. 
>  ...
> But the install goes into an infinite loop:

I've tracked this down to perm issues (way up the tree) between making 
this as yourself and then installing as mailman.  Solution is to just do 
the make as mailman, since it would appear that packages are also 
untar'd during the 'make install'  into the src dirs which IMO is a 
definite no-no.

Todd


From mcnutt at utk.edu  Sat Dec 31 20:52:45 2005
From: mcnutt at utk.edu (mcnutt)
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 14:52:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrading to 2.1.6
In-Reply-To: <43B6D5E9.8050407@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <UTK-CLSZ9zipafUGNW000000045@utk-cls.UTKCLS>

I've just upgraded my 2.0.x installation of mailman to 2.1.6, and I'm so
close I can practically taste it.

But it's still not working.

When I send mail to a list on the server, I get back the following error:
The original message was received at Sat, 31 Dec 2005 14:37:28 -0500 (EST)
from utk-cls.ra.utk.edu [160.36.208.91]

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
"|/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper post cls-news"
    (reason: 1)
    (expanded from: <cls-news at cls.coe.utk.edu>)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
sh: /usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper: not found
554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 1

That's obviously coming from the old version of mailman, but I can't find
what I missed.  Can anyone help me?

Bill McNutt
IT Administrator, UT Center for Literacy Studies
http://cls.coe.utk.edu


-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+mcnutt=utk.edu at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+mcnutt=utk.edu at python.org] On Behalf Of Todd A
Green
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 2:03 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] RELEASED Mailman 2.1.7

Todd A Green wrote:
> I'm having issues during the make install. 
>  ...
> But the install goes into an infinite loop:

I've tracked this down to perm issues (way up the tree) between making 
this as yourself and then installing as mailman.  Solution is to just do 
the make as mailman, since it would appear that packages are also 
untar'd during the 'make install'  into the src dirs which IMO is a 
definite no-no.

Todd
------------------------------------------------------
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Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
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From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sat Dec 31 21:32:15 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 14:32:15 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrading to 2.1.6
In-Reply-To: <UTK-CLSZ9zipafUGNW000000045@utk-cls.UTKCLS>
References: <UTK-CLSZ9zipafUGNW000000045@utk-cls.UTKCLS>
Message-ID: <p06200769bfdc9b1c2a7e@[192.168.1.100]>

At 2:52 PM -0500 2005-12-31, mcnutt wrote:

>     ----- Transcript of session follows -----
>  sh: /usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper: not found
>  554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 1
>
>  That's obviously coming from the old version of mailman, but I can't find
>  what I missed.  Can anyone help me?

	Looks to me like your aliases haven't been updated.  Maybe the 
old aliases are stored somewhere other than where the new version is 
configured to look for them?

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From monurergin at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 31 23:22:10 2005
From: monurergin at yahoo.com (M. Onur ERGiN)
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 14:22:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] falling back to login screen (repeat)
In-Reply-To: <20051230220417.62732.qmail@web30313.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20051231222210.7880.qmail@web30313.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi, I have posted the below question. I assume, most people couldn't notice. I need urgent feedback. Hope, I don't sound mean. 
Best regards.
Onur.

"M. Onur ERGiN" <monurergin at yahoo.com> wrote: Hello, 
I am running mailman on a RH9 sever, which has qmail and apache.
Everything was very fine since I installed mailman (it's been about 6 months). but lately, I can not make any changes using admin interface.
Every single click on links or form submissions causes me to fall back to the login screen and no changes are saved. I cannot change membership preferences, or I can't approve/discard/reject/defer pending messages.

I searched through the list archives, but couldn't achieve to find the same prolem. And it is not related with cookies, situation is same in every computer.

What I have recently done on the server was:

I updated httpd from 2.0.xxx to 2.0.40-21.11
I changed the permissions of all the files in /sbin /usr/bin /usr/sbin 
to o-x and back to o+x (don't ask me why...) Also, some files that had not o+x perm previously, have it now. I don't remember which were they.


And when I do ~mailman/bin/check_perms I only get:
Warning: Private archive directory is other-executable (o+x).
         This could allow other users on your system to read private archives.
         If you're on a shared multiuser system, you should consult the
         installation manual on how to fix this.
No problems found

Any help/idea will be appreciated.

Happy new year, and best wishes.
Onur.


  
---------------------------------
 Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/monurergin%40yahoo.com

Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp



		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year. 

From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sat Dec 31 23:28:32 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 16:28:32 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] falling back to login screen (repeat)
In-Reply-To: <20051231222210.7880.qmail@web30313.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051231222210.7880.qmail@web30313.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p0620076abfdcb6759351@[192.168.1.100]>

At 2:22 PM -0800 2005-12-31, M. Onur ERGiN wrote:

>  Hi, I have posted the below question. I assume, most people couldn't notice.
>  I need urgent feedback. Hope, I don't sound mean.

	Did you search the FAQ Wizard?  Did you see FAQ 4.45?  Did you 
search the archives of the list?

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From monurergin at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 31 23:54:14 2005
From: monurergin at yahoo.com (M. Onur ERGiN)
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 14:54:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] falling back to login screen (repeat)
In-Reply-To: <p0620076abfdcb6759351@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <20051231225414.49795.qmail@web30302.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Yes. As I mentioned in the question mail; I searched the FAQ wizard. I saw FAQ 4.45, I searched the archives of the list. 

My problem is somehow related to httpd update or binaries in /usr/bin /usr/sbin or /sbin. Does mailman using anything placed in those directories? Because until those changes i have mentioned in the previous mail, everything was going fine.
Onur.

Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> wrote: At 2:22 PM -0800 2005-12-31, M. Onur ERGiN wrote:

>  Hi, I have posted the below question. I assume, most people couldn't notice.
>  I need urgent feedback. Hope, I don't sound mean.

 Did you search the FAQ Wizard?  Did you see FAQ 4.45?  Did you 
search the archives of the list?

-- 
Brad Knowles, 


"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See .



		
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