From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  1 01:34:33 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 16:34:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] migrating mailman to a new box
In-Reply-To: <447DEB2E.7020906@ncmir.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200605311634330109b5ef048e@msapiro>

Jana Nguyen wrote:

>Below are the steps, not sure if this is a 
>good way of migrating mailman from current to new box?
>
>1) Move the entire contents of the archives/
>   lists/ and directories
>
>2) fix the host_name and web_page_url attributes of the list with 
>"withlist",
>"fix_url", and rebuild the archives with 'bin/arch --wipe'
>
>Not sure if we have to rebuild the archives if I'm already running 
>fix_url with withlist?


Yes. The steps are good, and you do want to rebuild the archives. Most
links in the archives are relative and not a problem, but there are
absolute links to scrubbed attachments and listinfo pages, and these
will have to be recreated to have the correct host. 'bin/arch --wipe'
will do this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  1 01:53:44 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 16:53:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message body is blank for some users
In-Reply-To: <p06200702c0a3b35d3b94@[192.168.1.65]>
Message-ID: <PC1740200605311653440843b5ef0777@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:
>
>	This user is probably sending out an HTML-formatted message (or 
>in some other MIME format), and you have Mailman configured to strip 
>HTML (or whatever the other MIME format is).
>
>	Check your settings.  Have the user send you a message directly, 
>then use whatever techniques your MUA allows you to have to see all 
>the messy headers and MIME body structure.  If you don't have an MUA 
>that lets you see all that, you'll need to get an MUA that will.


Brad is correct, particularly about diagnosis. I just want to add a
couple of ideas.

If Mailman's content filtering removes ALL the MIME parts so none
remain, the post will be handled according to filter_action; it won't
go to the list. If content filtering is removing the body, there must
be some other part which may be blank but is not removed for the
result to go to the list.

Another possibility to consider is that the message may be an HTML or
other rich text format message which is reaching the list and which
has (for example) white text on a white background. If this is the
case, the "blank" message body may be sizable to the point that it has
a scroll bar, but still "blank". You may be able to select the "blank"
text, copy it and paste it into a plain text editor and see it that
way.

This latter situation comes about when someone has their own MUA set
for "rich text" with a default background color of say black and an
explicit font color of white. Then, when the white on black message is
viewed by someone whose MUA backgrownd color is white, she sees the
white on white "blank" message.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pmb1 at york.ac.uk  Thu Jun  1 11:59:57 2006
From: pmb1 at york.ac.uk (Mike Brudenell)
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 10:59:57 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella List + Monthly Password Reminders = List
	Security Issue?
Message-ID: <FD27957F9C5F842B358C72CE@pippin.york.ac.uk>

Greetings -

Can someone help me with this please?

We are using Mailman 2.1.8 under Sun Solaris 10 (SPARC).

We have a small number of umbrella lists, each with (only) other lists 
subscribed as their members.  A fictional example:

The umbrella list

    all-depts at lists.york.ac.uk

has members

    astronomy-dept at lists.york.ac.uk
    dentistry-dept at lists.york.ac.uk
    geography-dept at lists.york.ac.uk

The umbrella list is set up with:

    Send password reminders to, eg, "-owner" address instead of directly to
    user. (Details for umbrella_list)
                                                            YES

    Suffix for use when this list is an umbrella for other lists, according
    to setting of previous "umbrella_list" setting.  (Details for
    umbrella_member_suffix)
                                                            -owner

Posting through the umbrella and member lists is working fine.

However I've just found that the monthly password reminders for the 
umbrella lists have been sent out to the subscribed member-list addresses. 
I was instead expecting them to go to these list names suffixed "-owner" 
and hence to the member-lists' owners only.

This means that every person belonging to, say, astronomy-dept now knows 
the membership password used to subscribe it to the all-depts umbrella list!
:-(

The monthly reminders are sent out using the Mailman script 
cron/mailpasswds and executed from cron.

I'm not a Python programmer (yet) but can manage to read the stuff and, as 
far as I can see, there is NOTHING in cron/mailpasswds to spot umbrella 
lists and send their monthly reminder to

    memberlist-owner at lists.york.ac.uk

instead of the subscribed address

    memberlist at lists.york.ac.uk

All the documentation I've read and help pages I've managed to locate give 
no clue of this behaviour.  Instead they strongly imply that by setting the 
umbrella_list setting to YES that "password reminders" are sent to the 
list's owners by adding the specified suffix (typically "-owner") to each 
member's address.

I'm now wondering if this is actually referring only to the "Please remind 
me of my password" link, not the monthly reminder.  If so then a huge 
warning needs adding to the FAQ and documentation about umbrella lists 
advising admins NOT to turn on the monthly reminders for umbrella lists in 
order to avoid this big security issue.

Or am I missing something/have something misconfigured?

Cheers,
Mike Brudenell

-- 
The Computing Service, University of York, Heslington, York Yo10 5DD, UK
Tel:+44-1904-433811  FAX:+44-1904-433740

* Unsolicited commercial e-mail is NOT welcome at this e-mail address. *


From timo.schoeler at riscworks.net  Thu Jun  1 14:06:32 2006
From: timo.schoeler at riscworks.net (Timo Schoeler)
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 14:06:32 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with GID and postfix
Message-ID: <447ED848.9050508@riscworks.net>

hi list,

after hours of searching on the net (finding that the problem is not 
unknown, but not yielding a solution for me) and several rebuilds of 
mailman (mailman-2.1.8rc1, from NetBSD pkgsrc) i'm stuck.

as advised, i built mailman with --with-mail-gid=nobody (for postfix), 
but this leads me to following problem when trying to post to a newly 
created (the first, one and only on the machine) list:

Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail
wrapper script to be executed as group "nobody", but
the system's mail server executed the mail script as
group "mailman".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the
script as group "nobody", or re-run configure,
providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=mailman'.

i figure that i need to tell postfix to run

/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman at riscworks.net

as nobody. can i force postfix to do this?

any hints greatly appreciated - thanks in advance,

-- 
Timo Schoeler | http://riscworks.net/~tis | timo.schoeler at riscworks.net
RISCworks -- Perfection is a powerful message
ISP | POWER & PowerPC afficinados | Networking, Security, BSD services
GPG Key fingerprint = C9CA 7A13 4250 44EF CC58  938F AE29 5465 6E09 3093

There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary
and those who don't.


From anne.ramey at ncmail.net  Thu Jun  1 15:02:15 2006
From: anne.ramey at ncmail.net (Anne Ramey)
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 09:02:15 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] pruning archives
Message-ID: <447EE557.2050907@ncmail.net>

Is this still the easiest way to prune archives?  Seems rather labor intensive...
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.003.htp <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.003.htp>

-- 
Anne Ramey




From carl at finknetwork.com  Thu Jun  1 16:05:39 2006
From: carl at finknetwork.com (Carl Fink)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 10:05:39 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't run mm_cfg.py
Message-ID: <20060601140539.GC16791@nitpicking.com>

Hi.

I'm unable to configure Mailman, because when I edit and run mm_cfg.py
("python ./mm_cfg.py") I get this error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./mm_cfg.py", line 44, in ?
    from Defaults import *
ImportError: No module named Defaults


Well, Defaults.py, Defaults.pyo and Defaults.pyc are sitting right there in
the current directory.  I'm not a Python expert, perhaps that isn't what's
being looked for?

I'm running 2.1.5 under Debian Sarge, using Python 2.3.5.  Any other
information that can help figure this out, please ask.

I have resubscribed to the mailing list, so there's no need to copy me
personally on any answers.  (I think the old custom of summarizing for
mailing lists is finally dead, unfortunately.)  I did search the archive and
found no mention of this problem.

And I'll be very grateful for any assistance.
-- 
Carl Fink                                   carl at finknetwork.com
   "Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your
   government when it deserves it."
                      - Mark Twain


From chris at westnet.com  Thu Jun  1 16:12:27 2006
From: chris at westnet.com (Christopher X. Candreva)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 10:12:27 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't run mm_cfg.py
In-Reply-To: <20060601140539.GC16791@nitpicking.com>
References: <20060601140539.GC16791@nitpicking.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0606011011580.5257@westnet.com>

On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Carl Fink wrote:

> I'm unable to configure Mailman, because when I edit and run mm_cfg.py

You don't run mm_cfg.py  You just edit it.

It contains values that are then read by the other programs when they run.

==========================================================
Chris Candreva  -- chris at westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  1 16:35:21 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 07:35:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella List + Monthly Password Reminders =
	ListSecurity Issue?
In-Reply-To: <FD27957F9C5F842B358C72CE@pippin.york.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606010735210640a17330b5@msapiro>

Mike Brudenell wrote:
>
>All the documentation I've read and help pages I've managed to locate give 
>no clue of this behaviour.  Instead they strongly imply that by setting the 
>umbrella_list setting to YES that "password reminders" are sent to the 
>list's owners by adding the specified suffix (typically "-owner") to each 
>member's address.
>
>I'm now wondering if this is actually referring only to the "Please remind 
>me of my password" link, not the monthly reminder.  If so then a huge 
>warning needs adding to the FAQ and documentation about umbrella lists 
>advising admins NOT to turn on the monthly reminders for umbrella lists in 
>order to avoid this big security issue.
>
>Or am I missing something/have something misconfigured?


I think you are correct. I think cron/mailpasswds should be fixed. I
don't know how this has been ignored for so long.


In the mean time, I think the following (Warning - totally untested and
watch out for wrapped lines) patch will fix it.

--- mailpasswds 2006-04-15 17:38:24.000000000 -0700
+++ mailpasswdsx        2006-06-01 07:30:07.843750000 -0700
@@ -162,6 +162,8 @@
                 optionsurl = mlist.GetOptionsURL(member)
                 lang = mlist.getMemberLanguage(member)
                 info = (listaddr, password, optionsurl, lang)
+                if mlist.umbrella_list:
+                    member = mlist.GetMemberAdminEmail(member).lower()
                 userinfo.setdefault(member, []).append(info)
         # Now that we've collected user information for this host,
send each
         # user the password reminder.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  1 16:42:08 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 07:42:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with GID and postfix
In-Reply-To: <447ED848.9050508@riscworks.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606010742080937a17331d1@msapiro>

Timo Schoeler wrote:
>
>i figure that i need to tell postfix to run
>
>/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman at riscworks.net
>
>as nobody. can i force postfix to do this?


You have two choices. Postfix runs the pipe as the user:group that owns
the alias file that the pipe came from. You could change the group of
data/aliases* to nobody, but that with cause other problems with
automatic alias generation for Postfix (assuming you have set MTA =
'Postfix')

The better choice is to rerun configure with --with-mail-gid=mailman
and reinstall.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dewey at ku.edu  Thu Jun  1 16:51:07 2006
From: dewey at ku.edu (Dewhirst, Rob)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 09:51:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password reminders,
	subscribers with listname@xyz.com?
Message-ID: <C9F4FE51E4DB3B4EBCA6B115331EB723044A2EB2@MAILBOXTWO.home.ku.edu>

I have a mailing list set up to send monthly password reminders.

Today, two of these reminder messages ended up in the Administrative
requests for the list as being posted to the list from non-members.

Coincidentally, the subscriber's email addresses are
nameofproblematiclist at xyz.com.  Their email address usernames are the
same as the name of the problematic list sending out the password
reminders, but their complete email address is in another domain.  

I am running Mailman 2.1.8 on RHEL4 with Exim.

Any ideas? I suppose I could post headers if this is not clear.


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  1 16:56:54 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 07:56:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't run mm_cfg.py
In-Reply-To: <20060601140539.GC16791@nitpicking.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606010756540265a1732f5f@msapiro>

Carl Fink wrote:
>
>I'm unable to configure Mailman, because when I edit and run mm_cfg.py
>("python ./mm_cfg.py") I get this error:
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "./mm_cfg.py", line 44, in ?
>    from Defaults import *
>ImportError: No module named Defaults


As Christopher said in another reply, you don't run mm_cfg.py, you just
edit it. Mailman modules import it.

However, you may wish to run it just to "error check" it, and the above
should work, i.e.

cd $prefix/Mailman
python ./mm_cfg.py

should be able to import from Defaults, so I don't know what's
happening unless you have a base mm_cfg.py from some packager that
contains things I don't know about.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Thu Jun  1 17:30:34 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 08:30:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't run mm_cfg.py
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060601083024.0610c1c0@crimson-dragon.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>Carl Fink wrote:
> >
> >I'm unable to configure Mailman, because when I edit and run mm_cfg.py
> >("python ./mm_cfg.py") I get this error:
> >
> >Traceback (most recent call last):
> >  File "./mm_cfg.py", line 44, in ?
> >    from Defaults import *
> >ImportError: No module named Defaults
>
>
>As Christopher said in another reply, you don't run mm_cfg.py, you just
>edit it. Mailman modules import it.
>
>However, you may wish to run it just to "error check" it, and the above
>should work, i.e.
>
>cd $prefix/Mailman
>python ./mm_cfg.py
>
>should be able to import from Defaults, so I don't know what's
>happening unless you have a base mm_cfg.py from some packager that
>contains things I don't know about.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

Yeah, that all seems a bit strange but if he can stop and 
successfully restart his qrunners, then the edits are syntactically 
correct and mailman can at least understand what is there. Whether 
those edits are then lexically and logically correct is another story 
altogether.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From pmb1 at york.ac.uk  Thu Jun  1 17:34:45 2006
From: pmb1 at york.ac.uk (Mike Brudenell)
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 16:34:45 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] pruning archives
In-Reply-To: <447EE557.2050907@ncmail.net>
References: <447EE557.2050907@ncmail.net>
Message-ID: <024C4DCFAEDF6B48332D4EB7@pippin.york.ac.uk>

Greetings -

--On 1 June 2006 09:02:15 -0400 Anne Ramey <anne.ramey at ncmail.net> wrote:

> Is this still the easiest way to prune archives?  Seems rather labor
> intensive...
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.003.htp
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.003.htp>

There are probably other utilities to do this task but the one that springs 
to my mind is "mailutil" from the University of Washington (UW) IMAP 
Utilities distribution.

mailutil was originally designed to create mail folders in particular 
storage formats, either locally or on a remote IMAP server.

However feeping creaturism added other facilities such as copying or moving 
messages between any combination of local and/or remote folders.

Amongst these is the "prune" option which lets you prune a mail folder 
based on a selection string.  The selection string itself is given in the 
format used by IMAP2's SEARCH command (RFC 117).  [I actually suspect it 
now supports IMAP4rev1's SEARCH command syntax (RFC 2060, section 6.4.4) 
... if this is indeed different.]

The example given in mailutil's man page is:

    mailutil prune INBOX "before 1-jan-2004"

Because mailutil is built using the UW C-Client library it understands a 
great many different mail folder storage formats, and can certainly be used 
on traditional UNIX/Berkeley/mbox formatted folders.

You can see the man page for mailutil (and the other IMAP utilities) at

    <http://www.washington.edu/pine/man/#mailutil>

Source code, and pre-built binaries for a number of platforms, for 
C-Client, Pine, the IMAP server and IMAP utilities can be found at:

    <http://www.washington.edu/pine/getpine/>

mailutil is in its imap/src/mail/utils directory.

Alternatively you can just get the IMAP server + C-Client source code at:

    <ftp://ftp.cac.washington.edu:21//imap/imap.tar.Z>

If I'm right in thinking this deletes messages from mail folders then you 
might find it a very useful tool: its selection criteria are very flexible, 
enabling you to select messages by date, sender, recipient, size, 
read/unread status, etc

CAUTION:
    I have used mailutil to create mail folders and copy messages around,
    but haven't yet tried its "prune" option.  However I'm expecting it
    will work.

    If someone tries it perhaps they could report back to the list?

Cheers,
Mike B-)

-- 
The Computing Service, University of York, Heslington, York Yo10 5DD, UK
Tel:+44-1904-433811  FAX:+44-1904-433740

* Unsolicited commercial e-mail is NOT welcome at this e-mail address. *


From jwblist3 at olympus.net  Thu Jun  1 17:46:24 2006
From: jwblist3 at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 08:46:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password reminders,
 subscribers with listname@xyz.com?
In-Reply-To: <C9F4FE51E4DB3B4EBCA6B115331EB723044A2EB2@MAILBOXTWO.home.ku.edu>
Message-ID: <C0A459E0.CD56%jwblist3@olympus.net>

On 6/1/06 7:51 AM, "Dewhirst, Rob" <dewey at ku.edu> wrote:

> I have a mailing list set up to send monthly password reminders.
> 
> Today, two of these reminder messages ended up in the Administrative
> requests for the list as being posted to the list from non-members.
> 
> Coincidentally, the subscriber's email addresses are
> nameofproblematiclist at xyz.com.  Their email address usernames are the
> same as the name of the problematic list sending out the password
> reminders, but their complete email address is in another domain.
> 
> I am running Mailman 2.1.8 on RHEL4 with Exim.
> 
> Any ideas? I suppose I could post headers if this is not clear.

Exim is seeing just the local part of the addresses when it processes
aliases.

I don't know how RedHat is packaging Mailman--assuming that's how you
installed Mailman.

I see that our installation would have the same problem, now that I look at
our Exim configuration on the Mailman machine:

mailman_router:
  driver = accept
  require_files = MAILMAN_HOME/lists/$local_part/config.pck
  local_part_suffix_optional
  local_part_suffix = -bounces : -bounces+* : \
                      -confirm+* : -join : -leave : \
                      -owner : -request : -admin
  transport = mailman_transport

In other words, if the local part of an address matches a list name, exim
will treat the address as something to send to the list.

Now that you've pointed out the problem, it would appear that the school
solution for Exim configuration for lists is flawed.  (And has worked at
many sites for many years.)

I think there should probably be something like
  domains = +mailman_domains
as a condition in the router.

Where that list would be defined in the early part of the configuration as
something like
  domainlist mailman_domains = mailman.example.com : lists.example.com
as needed (the above would be right for us were we example.com).  An Exim
macro could also be used, as was done with MAILMAN_HOME in the above.

The above is top-of-the-head, and untested.

I wonder whether the published solution ought to be changed.  Note that if
one is doing virtual domains--in the limited way Mailman does it now, it
would be better to fill the mailman_domains list by reading a file, which
could be managed by whatever software establishes lists in domains.

When Mailman begins allowing "real" virtual hosting, the Exim solution will
need to be changed, perhaps using a series of routers imported from a file
managed by the management software (Exim does handle import statements in
its configuration file--a feature which the stock Debian configuration for
Exim exercises heavily).




From carl at finknetwork.com  Thu Jun  1 18:14:30 2006
From: carl at finknetwork.com (Carl Fink)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 12:14:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't run mm_cfg.py
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060601082820.060f13e8@crimson-dragon.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060601082820.060f13e8@crimson-dragon.com>
Message-ID: <20060601161430.GA14328@nitpicking.com>

On Thu, Jun 01, 2006 at 08:30:34AM -0700, Dragon wrote:

> Yeah, that all seems a bit strange but if he can stop and 
> successfully restart his qrunners, then the edits are syntactically 
> correct and mailman can at least understand what is there. Whether 
> those edits are then lexically and logically correct is another story 
> altogether.

I actually did restart Mailman, with no errors, and so far it seems to have
taken my changes.  If mm_cfg is just there to be read from, why is it a
script instead of a text file /etc/mailman?
-- 
Carl Fink                                   carl at finknetwork.com
   "Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your
   government when it deserves it."
                      - Mark Twain


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Jun  1 18:18:04 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 11:18:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't run mm_cfg.py
In-Reply-To: <20060601161430.GA14328@nitpicking.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060601082820.060f13e8@crimson-dragon.com>
	<20060601161430.GA14328@nitpicking.com>
Message-ID: <p0620070ec0a4c35afb57@[192.168.1.65]>

At 12:14 PM -0400 2006-06-01, Carl Fink wrote:

>  I actually did restart Mailman, with no errors, and so far it seems to have
>  taken my changes.  If mm_cfg is just there to be read from, why is it a
>  script instead of a text file /etc/mailman?

	Because with a text /etc/mailman.cf configuration file, you then 
have to write a program to parse that content and to deal with all 
possible exceptions.

	When the configuration is done in the Python language in a Python 
script, you can let Python do all the parsing, and do the equivalent 
of "#include" in order to pull in all your configuration details.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From carl at finknetwork.com  Thu Jun  1 18:30:30 2006
From: carl at finknetwork.com (Carl Fink)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 12:30:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't run mm_cfg.py
In-Reply-To: <p0620070ec0a4c35afb57@[192.168.1.65]>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060601082820.060f13e8@crimson-dragon.com>
	<20060601161430.GA14328@nitpicking.com>
	<p0620070ec0a4c35afb57@[192.168.1.65]>
Message-ID: <20060601163030.GA9915@nitpicking.com>

On Thu, Jun 01, 2006 at 11:18:04AM -0500, Brad Knowles wrote:

> 	When the configuration is done in the Python language in a Python 
> script, you can let Python do all the parsing, and do the equivalent 
> of "#include" in order to pull in all your configuration details.

Fair enough.  Like I wrote, I'm no Python expert.

Thanks.
-- 
Carl Fink                                   carl at finknetwork.com
   "Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your
   government when it deserves it."
                      - Mark Twain


From jwblist3 at olympus.net  Thu Jun  1 19:19:37 2006
From: jwblist3 at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 10:19:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't run mm_cfg.py
In-Reply-To: <20060601163030.GA9915@nitpicking.com>
Message-ID: <C0A46FB9.CD83%jwblist3@olympus.net>

On 6/1/06 9:30 AM, "Carl Fink" <carl at finknetwork.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 01, 2006 at 11:18:04AM -0500, Brad Knowles wrote:
> 
>> When the configuration is done in the Python language in a Python
>> script, you can let Python do all the parsing, and do the equivalent
>> of "#include" in order to pull in all your configuration details.
> 
> Fair enough.  

A downside is that there is no "proper" place for Defaults.py and mm_cfg.py

They are configuration, so they go into /etc somewhere.  They are
executable, so they DON'T go into /etc.  Not a problem with the stock
Mailman layout, but it does cause problems for one trying to match the file
system standard (such as the Red Hat packaging of Mailman, which shotguns
Mailman into several different places--and is well done).

  --John




From jimpop at yahoo.com  Thu Jun  1 19:41:39 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 13:41:39 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't run mm_cfg.py
In-Reply-To: <20060601163030.GA9915@nitpicking.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060601082820.060f13e8@crimson-dragon.com>	<20060601161430.GA14328@nitpicking.com>	<p0620070ec0a4c35afb57@[192.168.1.65]>
	<20060601163030.GA9915@nitpicking.com>
Message-ID: <447F26D3.6020005@yahoo.com>

Carl Fink wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 01, 2006 at 11:18:04AM -0500, Brad Knowles wrote:
> 
>> 	When the configuration is done in the Python language in a Python 
>> script, you can let Python do all the parsing, and do the equivalent 
>> of "#include" in order to pull in all your configuration details.
> 
> Fair enough.  Like I wrote, I'm no Python expert.

I am no Python expert either, but i am a competent perl and C++ 
programmer.  After about 4 years of tweaking and changing Python code, 
I've learned to appreciate it's power, but also it's simplicity.  Python 
is a very well designed programming language, Mailman is just one of 
many great apps that prove this.

-Jim P.


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Thu Jun  1 19:47:14 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 13:47:14 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't run mm_cfg.py
In-Reply-To: <C0A46FB9.CD83%jwblist3@olympus.net>
References: <C0A46FB9.CD83%jwblist3@olympus.net>
Message-ID: <447F2822.10909@yahoo.com>

John W. Baxter wrote:
> On 6/1/06 9:30 AM, "Carl Fink" <carl at finknetwork.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Thu, Jun 01, 2006 at 11:18:04AM -0500, Brad Knowles wrote:
>>
>>> When the configuration is done in the Python language in a Python
>>> script, you can let Python do all the parsing, and do the equivalent
>>> of "#include" in order to pull in all your configuration details.
>> Fair enough.  
> 
> A downside is that there is no "proper" place for Defaults.py and mm_cfg.py
> 
> They are configuration, so they go into /etc somewhere.  They are
> executable, so they DON'T go into /etc.  Not a problem with the stock
> Mailman layout, but it does cause problems for one trying to match the file
> system standard (such as the Red Hat packaging of Mailman, which shotguns
> Mailman into several different places--and is well done).

I have custom Mailman installs (from source releases) on my systems. 
The way that I solve this problem, of desiring all configuration files 
to exist in /etc, is to hardlink /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py 
(and a few others) to a directory I created (/etc/mailman) on each 
system.  I do the same for MoinMoin (a Python wiki).  This way I can 
periodically backup etc and not have to worry about a large bloated 
backup of easily re-installed applications.

-Jim P.


From jesse at solidot.org  Thu Jun  1 20:43:09 2006
From: jesse at solidot.org (J. Lee)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 02:43:09 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin can't login
Message-ID: <41483dbd0606011143x16509822xc46fa3270de74088@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

I am new to mailman. When I entered password on admin page (
http://lists.mysite.org/mailman/admin/mailman) and clicked the login button,
it take no effect. Tha page just refresh.
I am running Mailman on debian with exim4.
Please help.

Thanks!

Jesse


From dandrews at visi.com  Thu Jun  1 20:43:14 2006
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 13:43:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some Users Unable to Post
Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060601134122.0291cd98@visi.com>

Hi:

I run a Sun Cobalt RAQ 550 with Mailman, and about 90 lists.  I have 
a few users, on various lists who are subscribed to a given list, who 
can reply to an existing message, but who can't post an original 
message.  they are then rejected as a non-member.  Any ideas?

David Andrews


David Andrews and white cane Harry.




From dewey at ku.edu  Thu Jun  1 21:19:16 2006
From: dewey at ku.edu (Dewhirst, Rob)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 14:19:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password reminders,
	subscribers with listname@xyz.com?
Message-ID: <C9F4FE51E4DB3B4EBCA6B115331EB723044A2F1B@MAILBOXTWO.home.ku.edu>

> Exim is seeing just the local part of the addresses when it 
> processes aliases.

> I don't know how RedHat is packaging Mailman--assuming that's 
> how you installed Mailman.

I installed exim from rpm and built mailman from source.

> I think there should probably be something like
>   domains = +mailman_domains
> as a condition in the router.

I think that's the culprit -- 

These two docs differ on how to setup the Exim router

<http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html>

<http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node21.html>

And they differ by the domains = definition you quote above.  The Exim
docs have it, the mailman docs don't.




From schaefer at alphanet.ch  Thu Jun  1 21:09:41 2006
From: schaefer at alphanet.ch (Marc SCHAEFER)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 21:09:41 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] VERP active where it shouldn't
Message-ID: <20060601190941.GA10488@alphanet.ch>

Hi,

I am running a Mailman from Debian stable (2.1.5-8sarge2), and I experimented
the following issue:

   - even if disabled in Defaults.py and not enabled in mm_cfg.py,
     VERP seems to be activated from time to time. I am guessing it is
     activated only when something already bounced on a user (?).
     Most mail sent out don't have the VERP (user=host+id) stuff at all
     as Sender:, and when they have something it's a cookie:

   gull-annonces-bounces+4ae5d0b7d6547f114afac76d551c9dfbbc3f212e at lists.alphanet.ch

My questions:

   - is there a `mailman_display_config' command which would return the
     *actually used* mailman configuration (maybe I am looking at the
     wrong config file or Defaults.py file) ?

   - how to disable VERP *completely * ?

In my case, VERP cannot work, because + is *not* used for multi-addresses
recipients. 

Excerpt from config:
   grep VERP mm_cfg.py /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py

   VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 0
   VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = No
   VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = No
   VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = No

Thank you for any ideas!

(otherwise thank you for Mailman, which I use since a few years on
lists.alphanet.ch)



From cpz at tuunq.com  Thu Jun  1 22:10:06 2006
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 13:10:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't run mm_cfg.py
In-Reply-To: <447F26D3.6020005@yahoo.com> from Jim Popovitch at "Jun 1, 2006
	01:41:39 pm"
Message-ID: <20060601201007.488637AF@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Jim Popovitch wrote:

> I am no Python expert either, but i am a competent perl and C++ 
> programmer.  After about 4 years of tweaking and changing Python code, 
> I've learned to appreciate it's power, but also it's simplicity.  Python 
> is a very well designed programming language, Mailman is just one of 
> many great apps that prove this.

In general, I agree, but I question a language that relies on indent level 
for blocking and don't let you include blank lines for readability. I guess 
it's ok when you get used to it.  But then again, I mostly work in tcl at 
this point...   :-)

Of course, YMMV

z!


From secretary at healheadingley.org.uk  Thu Jun  1 23:02:23 2006
From: secretary at healheadingley.org.uk (Heal Secretary)
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 22:02:23 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message body is blank for some users
In-Reply-To: <p06200702c0a3b35d3b94@[192.168.1.65]>
References: <7.0.0.16.0.20060531193536.01df19e8@healheadingley.org.uk>
	<p06200702c0a3b35d3b94@[192.168.1.65]>
Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.0.20060601215630.01b0cf50@healheadingley.org.uk>

Hi Brad

Thank you for this.

The user's messy headings reveal "Content-Type: text/html; 
format=flowed". Is this all I need to know?

I am using Eudora which shows plenty of messy headings. I don't know 
if it is a MUA or not. Please could you explain this term. Also, the 
messy headings don't have any mention of MIME. I'm sorry to say I 
don't even know what this term means. Please could you enlighten me?

In the meantime I have changed my settings to "Should Mailman convert 
text/html parts to plain text? = No". I'll ask the user to post and 
see what happens.

Many thanks for your patience
Nigel

At 21:58 31/5/06, Brad Knowles wrote:

>         This user is probably sending out an HTML-formatted message 
> (or in some other MIME format), and you have Mailman configured to 
> strip HTML (or whatever the other MIME format is).
>
>         Check your settings.  Have the user send you a message 
> directly, then use whatever techniques your MUA allows you to have 
> to see all the messy headers and MIME body structure.  If you don't 
> have an MUA that lets you see all that, you'll need to get an MUA that will.
>

Secretary of Heal
Campaigning for a Sustainable Balanced Community
www.healheadingley.org.uk  



From jwblist3 at olympus.net  Fri Jun  2 01:10:08 2006
From: jwblist3 at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 16:10:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't run mm_cfg.py
In-Reply-To: <20060601201007.488637AF@mail.tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <C0A4C1E0.CD9D%jwblist3@olympus.net>

On 6/1/06 1:10 PM, "Carl Zwanzig" <cpz at tuunq.com> wrote:

> In general, I agree, but I question a language that relies on indent level
> for blocking and don't let you include blank lines for readability. I guess
> it's ok when you get used to it.  But then again, I mostly work in tcl at
> this point...   :-)
> 
> Of course, YMMV

And if braces for structure move into Python as a required thing (unlikely,
as long as the BDFL is around, and he's much younger than I am), I stop with
the version upgrades.

The clearly visible structure was one of the first things that attracted me.

As you say, YMMV.

  --John




From laff at massiveblack.com  Fri Jun  2 01:32:30 2006
From: laff at massiveblack.com (The Lafferty)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 16:32:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Taking word bounces out of received emails......
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606010742080937a17331d1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060601233239.810AC1E400B@bag.python.org>

...IS THERE AN EASY WAY TO DO THIS? 

When clients see the word bounces in the email it makes them nervous. 

Like:


HR-bounces at lalala.com

Help please.

We are running windows, is there any easy way to take this word out by using
the web interface?

thanks




From laff at massiveblack.com  Fri Jun  2 03:40:36 2006
From: laff at massiveblack.com (The Lafferty)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 18:40:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Why can't anyone post to mailing Lists
Message-ID: <20060602014046.833E71E4013@bag.python.org>

I want to use our mailing list more like a mail alias, I need it to be open
so anyone can mail to it without seeking approval from the moderator....does
anyone know how set this up?
 
thanks


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Jun  2 04:37:25 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 21:37:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message body is blank for some users
In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.0.20060601215630.01b0cf50@healheadingley.org.uk>
References: <7.0.0.16.0.20060531193536.01df19e8@healheadingley.org.uk>
	<p06200702c0a3b35d3b94@[192.168.1.65]>
	<7.0.0.16.0.20060601215630.01b0cf50@healheadingley.org.uk>
Message-ID: <p0620070fc0a5542cecb9@[192.168.1.65]>

At 10:02 PM +0100 2006-06-01, Heal Secretary wrote:

>  The user's messy headings reveal "Content-Type: text/html;
>  format=flowed". Is this all I need to know?

	That's unlikely to be all that you need to know.

>  I am using Eudora which shows plenty of messy headings. I don't know
>  if it is a MUA or not.

	Eudora is an MUA (Mail User Agent), and I happen to use the same 
program.  However, you need to look at more than just the headers -- 
you also need to look at the raw message body, which is something 
that Eudora does not do (so far as I know).

	Try saving a copy of the message to a file, then pull up that 
file in a text editor.

>                          Please could you explain this term. Also, the
>  messy headings don't have any mention of MIME. I'm sorry to say I
>  don't even know what this term means. Please could you enlighten me?

	MIME is how Internet e-mail handles binary content.  However, 
although there are some official standards for MIME, very few 
programs actually implement all of those standards the same way.

	What you need to be able to see is the internal MIME structure of 
the message.

>  In the meantime I have changed my settings to "Should Mailman convert
>  text/html parts to plain text? = No". I'll ask the user to post and
>  see what happens.

	That may not help.  Give it a try, but don't be surprised if it 
doesn't work.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Jun  2 04:39:35 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 21:39:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Taking word bounces out of received emails......
In-Reply-To: <20060601233239.810AC1E400B@bag.python.org>
References: <20060601233239.810AC1E400B@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <p06200710c0a5554f30d9@[192.168.1.65]>

At 4:32 PM -0700 2006-06-01, The Lafferty wrote:

>  We are running windows, is there any easy way to take this word out by using
>  the web interface?

	See <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  2 05:28:08 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 20:28:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Why can't anyone post to mailing Lists
In-Reply-To: <20060602014046.833E71E4013@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060120280805629b2171fa@msapiro>

The Lafferty wrote:

>I want to use our mailing list more like a mail alias, I need it to be open
>so anyone can mail to it without seeking approval from the moderator....does
>anyone know how set this up?

In the admin interface Privacy options...->Sender filters set
generic_nonmember_action to accept.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  2 05:40:11 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 20:40:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't run mm_cfg.py
In-Reply-To: <20060601201007.488637AF@mail.tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060120401109379b217374@msapiro>

Carl Zwanzig wrote:
>
>In general, I agree, but I question a language that relies on indent level 
>for blocking and don't let you include blank lines for readability. I guess 
>it's ok when you get used to it.


The forced indentation is something there will probably never be even
close to universal agreement on - some love it, some hate it, very few
are neutral.

But why do you think you can't include blank lines?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  2 05:52:35 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 20:52:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin can't login
In-Reply-To: <41483dbd0606011143x16509822xc46fa3270de74088@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060120523502039b2170ae@msapiro>

J. Lee wrote:
>
>I am new to mailman. When I entered password on admin page (
>http://lists.mysite.org/mailman/admin/mailman) and clicked the login button,
>it take no effect. Tha page just refresh.
>I am running Mailman on debian with exim4.


If the refreshed page said "Authorization failed." in red at the top,
it is likely an incorrect password. If it truly just refreshed, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.045.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jesse at solidot.org  Fri Jun  2 06:00:23 2006
From: jesse at solidot.org (J. Lee)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 12:00:23 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin can't login
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006060120523502039b2170ae@msapiro>
References: <41483dbd0606011143x16509822xc46fa3270de74088@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006060120523502039b2170ae@msapiro>
Message-ID: <41483dbd0606012100n7336f1fbjd7059548589a152d@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I just found the problem, which was caused by Slash(www.slashcode.com, my
main site running it). When stopped Slash, my browser can receive cookies
from Mailman, everything works well. When slash start, mailman's cookie
doesn't work, I can't login to admin page.

Thanks for your reply.
Sorry for my English.

Jesse

On 6/2/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> J. Lee wrote:
> >
> >I am new to mailman. When I entered password on admin page (
> >http://lists.mysite.org/mailman/admin/mailman) and clicked the login
> button,
> >it take no effect. Tha page just refresh.
> >I am running Mailman on debian with exim4.
>
>
> If the refreshed page said "Authorization failed." in red at the top,
> it is likely an incorrect password. If it truly just refreshed, see
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.045.htp>.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jesse.solidot%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  2 06:06:41 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 21:06:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some Users Unable to Post
In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20060601134122.0291cd98@visi.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060121064106569b217279@msapiro>

David Andrews wrote:
>
>I run a Sun Cobalt RAQ 550 with Mailman, and about 90 lists.  I have 
>a few users, on various lists who are subscribed to a given list, who 
>can reply to an existing message, but who can't post an original 
>message.  they are then rejected as a non-member.  Any ideas?


There must be some difference in headers or envelope sender between a
reply and a new message in these cases.

Have the user(s) both send a new message to you rather than the list
and reply to a list message but re-address the reply to you. Then look
at headers in these messages. Look at From:, Return-Path: (which
reflects the envelope sender), Reply-To: and Sender: which are the
addresses used to determine list membership (assuming you haven't set
SENDER_HEADERS in mm_cfg.py).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  2 06:56:06 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 21:56:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] VERP active where it shouldn't
In-Reply-To: <20060601190941.GA10488@alphanet.ch>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060121560605319b2171d9@msapiro>

schaefer at alphanet.ch wrote:
>
>I am running a Mailman from Debian stable (2.1.5-8sarge2), and I experimented
>the following issue:
>
>   - even if disabled in Defaults.py and not enabled in mm_cfg.py,
>     VERP seems to be activated from time to time. I am guessing it is
>     activated only when something already bounced on a user (?).
>     Most mail sent out don't have the VERP (user=host+id) stuff at all
>     as Sender:, and when they have something it's a cookie:
>
>   gull-annonces-bounces+4ae5d0b7d6547f114afac76d551c9dfbbc3f212e at lists.alphanet.ch



That's a VERP probe.


>My questions:
>
>   - is there a `mailman_display_config' command which would return the
>     *actually used* mailman configuration (maybe I am looking at the
>     wrong config file or Defaults.py file) ?


No.


>   - how to disable VERP *completely * ?
>
>In my case, VERP cannot work, because + is *not* used for multi-addresses
>recipients. 
>
>Excerpt from config:
>   grep VERP mm_cfg.py /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py


mm_cfg.py should be in the same directory as Defaults.py unless this is
a Debian thing.

>
>   VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 0
>   VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = No
>   VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = No
>   VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = No


You seem to have edited out quite a bit of the grep result :-)


You are running Mailman 2.1.5. VERP probes were introduced in 2.1.5 and
couldn't be turned off. This was recognized to be a mistake, so
beginning in 2.1.6 they are controlled by
VERP_PROBES which defaults to No.

In 2.1.5, you could effectively change the sender of the probe from

gull-annonces-bounces+4ae5d0b7d6547f114afac76d551c9dfbbc3f212e at lists.alphanet.ch

to

gull-annonces-bounces at lists.alphanet.ch

by changing VERP_PROBE_FORMAT, but this will break bounce processing
because in 2.1.5, disabling a bouncing user relies on receiving a
bounced probe with the token.

Your choices are:

Upgrade (maybe not easy/possible with a Debian package).

Complain to Debian.

Modify Mailman/Bouncer.py to either implement mm_cfg.VERP_PROBES or
just remove VERP probes all together. See
<http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/mailman/branches/Release_2_1-maint/mailman/Mailman/Bouncer.py?r1=7147&r2=7190>


Turn off bounce processing for the list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From schaefer at alphanet.ch  Fri Jun  2 08:51:14 2006
From: schaefer at alphanet.ch (Marc SCHAEFER)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 08:51:14 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] VERP active where it shouldn't
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006060121560605319b2171d9@msapiro>
References: <20060601190941.GA10488@alphanet.ch>
	<PC17402006060121560605319b2171d9@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060602065114.GA8915@alphanet.ch>

On Thu, Jun 01, 2006 at 09:56:06PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> >   gull-annonces-bounces+4ae5d0b7d6547f114afac76d551c9dfbbc3f212e at lists.alphanet.ch
> 
> That's a VERP probe.

ok.

> >   - is there a `mailman_display_config' command which would return the
> >     *actually used* mailman configuration (maybe I am looking at the
> >     wrong config file or Defaults.py file) ?
> 
> 
> No.

Could be handy :)

> mm_cfg.py should be in the same directory as Defaults.py unless this is
> a Debian thing.

schaefer at shakotay:~$ ls -la /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/{mm_cfg.py,Defaults.py}
-rw-r--r--  1 root list 54457 Mar 29 21:58 /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py
lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root    22 May  3 09:19 /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py -> /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py

they are, but the local admin configurable part is really stored in
/etc/mailman, as per standard policy. Modifying stuff in the system is
not really Debian's cup of tea, which has its reasons.

> You seem to have edited out quite a bit of the grep result :-)

yep.

> Your choices are:

I will simply configure the probes to use the `=' character, which is
the equivalent of `+' here.  As long as the probes are sent in this
hexadecimal format (and not in the user=host.ch format) it should work.

Am I right that the probes are always sent in the hexadecimal format,
and thus that the variables to set in mm_cfg.py are:

   VERP_PROBE_FORMAT = '%(bounces)s=%(token)s'
   VERP_PROBE_REGEXP = r'^(?P<bounces>[^+]+?)\=(?P<token>[^@]+)@.*$'

I shall assume that for everything else as probes, the bug doesn't exist
and no probes will be sent as long as the config is set to 0 or No.

If you confirm the above, I will report this as a Debian bug, so that
the maintainer knows about this and less people complain for this issue.

Thank you for your useful help, indeed!



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  2 16:45:48 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 07:45:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] VERP active where it shouldn't
In-Reply-To: <20060602065114.GA8915@alphanet.ch>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060207454807183ba30e7e@Notebook>

Marc SCHAEFER wrote:

>On Thu, Jun 01, 2006 at 09:56:06PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> >   - is there a `mailman_display_config' command which would return the
>> >     *actually used* mailman configuration (maybe I am looking at the
>> >     wrong config file or Defaults.py file) ?
>> 
>> 
>> No.
>
>Could be handy :)


I was thinking the same thing. Here is a very rough first cut, proof of
concept script. Watch out for wrapped lines. You may have to change
the #! python command. The script needs to be stored in the bin/
directory with the other command line scripts in order to find the
paths.py module it imports.

It will grow a --help option and at a minimum, an option to specify a
pattern and print only those names that match the pattern (although
with the primitive script below, you can always pipe it into grep).

cut----------------------------------------------------
#! /usr/bin/python
#
# Copyright (C) 2006 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc.
#
# This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
# modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
# as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2
# of the License, or (at your option) any later version.
#
# This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
# but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
# MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
# GNU General Public License for more details.
#
# You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
# along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
# Foundation, Inc., 51 Franklin Street, Fifth Floor, Boston, MA
02110-1301,
# USA.

"""A simple script to display the public mm_cfg variables
for checking a configuration.
"""

import paths

from Mailman import mm_cfg

names = mm_cfg.__dict__.keys()
names.sort()
for name in names:
    if not name.startswith('_'):
        print name, '=', mm_cfg.__dict__[name]
cut----------------------------------------------------



>I will simply configure the probes to use the `=' character, which is
>the equivalent of `+' here.  As long as the probes are sent in this
>hexadecimal format (and not in the user=host.ch format) it should work.
>
>Am I right that the probes are always sent in the hexadecimal format,
>and thus that the variables to set in mm_cfg.py are:
>
>   VERP_PROBE_FORMAT = '%(bounces)s=%(token)s'
>   VERP_PROBE_REGEXP = r'^(?P<bounces>[^+]+?)\=(?P<token>[^@]+)@.*$'
>
>I shall assume that for everything else as probes, the bug doesn't exist
>and no probes will be sent as long as the config is set to 0 or No.


The above is almost correct. In Mailman 2.1.5, you can turn off
everything but the VERP probes in mm_cfg.py. Then the above changes
will replace '+' with '=' except it should be

   VERP_PROBE_REGEXP = r'^(?P<bounces>[^=]+?)\=(?P<token>[^@]+)@.*$'

And yes, the probe token is always a hex confirmation string, not the
user=host address format.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jewel.brueggeman-makda at washburn.edu  Fri Jun  2 16:15:40 2006
From: jewel.brueggeman-makda at washburn.edu (Jewel)
Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 09:15:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digests -  How did they do this?
Message-ID: <4480480C.8040701@washburn.edu>

Below is an example of a digest from a list and I would like to be able 
to do the same style on my digests in my Mailman.  I like how it lists 
the topics and then lists each message accordingly, like Message 2 for 
example. I am running Mailman 2.1.7 and at this point have not done any 
customization at this point.  I didn't know how to search for something 
like this in the archives either.  Any advice?


Thanks,
Jewel Makda
______________________________________________________________________

 





From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  2 17:32:51 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 08:32:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digests -  How did they do this?
In-Reply-To: <4480480C.8040701@washburn.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060208325108128dcfb63f@Notebook>

Jewel wrote
>
>Below is an example of a digest from a list and I would like to be able 
>to do the same style on my digests in my Mailman.  I like how it lists 
>the topics and then lists each message accordingly, like Message 2 for 
>example. I am running Mailman 2.1.7 and at this point have not done any 
>customization at this point.  I didn't know how to search for something 
>like this in the archives either.  Any advice?


Whatever you attached to this mail was removed by content filtering I'm
not sure from your description what digest format this is, but Mailman
sends digests in one of two formats by user option.

The 'plain' digest is one long plain text message with digest boiler
plate, table of contents and the individual messages, each flattened
to plain text with attachments scrubbed.

The 'MIME' digest consists of multiple MIME parts with separate parts
for the boiler plate and TOC and each message in it's own
message/rfc822 part.

What each format actually looks like depends on your MUA.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Fri Jun  2 17:53:27 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 08:53:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message body is blank for some users
In-Reply-To: <p0620070fc0a5542cecb9@[192.168.1.65]>
References: <7.0.0.16.0.20060531193536.01df19e8@healheadingley.org.uk>
	<p06200702c0a3b35d3b94@[192.168.1.65]>
	<7.0.0.16.0.20060601215630.01b0cf50@healheadingley.org.uk>
	<p0620070fc0a5542cecb9@[192.168.1.65]>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060602084909.06170198@crimson-dragon.com>

Brad Knowles sent the message below at 19:37 6/1/2006:
>At 10:02 PM +0100 2006-06-01, Heal Secretary wrote:
>
> >  I am using Eudora which shows plenty of messy headings. I don't know
> >  if it is a MUA or not.
>
>         Eudora is an MUA (Mail User Agent), and I happen to use the same
>program.  However, you need to look at more than just the headers --
>you also need to look at the raw message body, which is something
>that Eudora does not do (so far as I know).
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

I use Eudora too, as far as I know, it doesn't allow you to do that. 
However, the .mbx files that Eudora uses are a slightly modified mbox 
format and can be viewed easily with a text editor.

The easiest way to do this is to create a new mailbox in Eudora, 
transfer the message to that mailbox and then open it in a text editor.



Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From kwolcott at cloudshield.com  Fri Jun  2 19:45:06 2006
From: kwolcott at cloudshield.com (Kenneth A. Wolcott)
Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 10:45:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Added email address to "posters" in list config,
 but user's email must be approved each time, why?
Message-ID: <44807922.3080404@cloudshield.com>

Hi;

  I added a user's email address to the "posters" variable in the 
specific list config file, but still the user's email must be approved 
each time.

  Why is this?  Do I need to shutdown and restart Mailman for the config 
changes to take effect?

  I then subscribed the user.  Still had to manually approve email 
messages.  I then unsubscribed the user.

  I looked at the FAQ and spent some time in the email archives and 
looked at the manual and even looked at python code -- still mystified.

  Perhaps I have missed an obvious section of the manual, or the FAQ or 
an email in the archive that discusses/resolves this situation.  If so, 
please point me to it.

  Is this a bug that is resolved in more recent versions of Mailman?

  The user is a virtual user.  The Mailman application has been 
successfully used at this site regarding a previous (and still existing) 
virtual user who was in the posters variable in the config file, but was 
not a subscriber.  I wanted to add a new virtual user.

  Mailman version 2.0.13 on Linux

Thanks,
Kenneth A. Wolcott
kwolcott at cloudshield.com


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  2 21:18:37 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 12:18:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Added email address to "posters" in list config,
	but user's email must be approved each time, why?
In-Reply-To: <44807922.3080404@cloudshield.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060212183703623ba30d0f@Notebook>

Kenneth A. Wolcott wrote:
>
>  I added a user's email address to the "posters" variable in the 
>specific list config file, but still the user's email must be approved 
>each time.


Did you add the address to 'posters' via the web admin interface or
some other method that actually updated the lists/<listname>/config.db
file?


>  Why is this?  Do I need to shutdown and restart Mailman for the config 
>changes to take effect?


You shouldn't need to do this for list settings as they are loaded from
the config.db each time the list is accessed.


>  I then subscribed the user.  Still had to manually approve email 
>messages.  I then unsubscribed the user.


This indicates the From: or Sender: header of the post as received from
the user has an address which is (perhaps subtly) different from the
address you are subscribing.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kwolcott at cloudshield.com  Fri Jun  2 21:59:16 2006
From: kwolcott at cloudshield.com (Kenneth A. Wolcott)
Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 12:59:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Added email address to "posters" in list config,
 but user's email must be approved each time, why?
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006060212183703623ba30d0f@Notebook>
References: <PC17402006060212183703623ba30d0f@Notebook>
Message-ID: <44809894.60607@cloudshield.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Kenneth A. Wolcott wrote:
>   
>>  I added a user's email address to the "posters" variable in the 
>> specific list config file, but still the user's email must be approved 
>> each time.
>>     
>
>
> Did you add the address to 'posters' via the web admin interface or
> some other method that actually updated the lists/<listname>/config.db
> file?
>   

  No.  I modified the config file directly.  I hadn't looked in the 
Private section from the web interface previously.  I recently started 
using the master password since no one could remember what the regular 
mailman admin password was.  Prior to using the master password, I 
didn't have access to the web interface and I was trying to do 
everything as root from the command line.  I just now added the email 
address via the web interface in the Private section.
>
>   
>>  Why is this?  Do I need to shutdown and restart Mailman for the config 
>> changes to take effect?
>>     
>
>
> You shouldn't need to do this for list settings as they are loaded from
> the config.db each time the list is accessed.
>
>   
Cool.
>   
>>  I then subscribed the user.  Still had to manually approve email 
>> messages.  I then unsubscribed the user.
>>     
>
>
> This indicates the From: or Sender: header of the post as received from
> the user has an address which is (perhaps subtly) different from the
> address you are subscribing.
>
>   
I think that the modification of the poster field via the web interface 
will solve the problem.  I'll find out the next time the email (once 
daily) gets generated whether or not it gets posted automatically or 
not.  If this doesn't work then I'll look into the (subtle) differences 
in the email headers.

Thanks so much for your reply,
Ken Wolcott
kwolcott at cloudshield.com




From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun  3 00:13:59 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 15:13:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password reminders,
	subscribers with listname@xyz.com?
In-Reply-To: <C9F4FE51E4DB3B4EBCA6B115331EB723044A2F1B@MAILBOXTWO.home.ku.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606021513590140e0dc2b07@msapiro>

Dewhirst, Rob wrote:
>
>These two docs differ on how to setup the Exim router
>
><http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html>
>
><http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node21.html>
>
>And they differ by the domains = definition you quote above.  The Exim
>docs have it, the mailman docs don't.

They also differ in the local_part_suffix list. Here too, the Exim docs
have the correct list; the one in the Mailman manual is incomplete.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun  3 00:38:02 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 15:38:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] language encoding for archives
In-Reply-To: <dff375270605260947p61acb606y4764a017b54dc4e1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606021538020484eb0df006@msapiro>

kristina clair wrote:
>
>Thanks so much!  I discovered that messages that are using one
>character set (charset="windows-1251") are appearing correctly and
>messages that are using another character set (charset=iso-8859-1) are
>not appearing correctly.
>
>Is the only fix for this for the list members to use the character set
>which is appearing correctly after mailman processing?

Sorry for not answering sooner. This one got buried in my inbox.

Those users who are sending charset=iso-8859-1 need to do something
different in their MTAs or with the setup of their computers. The
iso-8859-1 character set is also known as Latin-1 or western. It does
not contain encodings for cyrillic characters. The ISO character set
with cyrillic characters is iso-8859-5. Windows-1251 is also a
cyrillic character set.

See for example <http://czyborra.com/charsets/iso8859.html> for
descriptions of the various iso-8859 character sets and
<http://czyborra.com/charsets/cyrillic.html> for various cyrillic
character sets.

Apparently your problem users are using a cyrillic setting on their
computers so that they type and see cyrillic characters on their
displays, but their MUA's are mis-identifying this as iso-8859-1. This
is basically a setup issue on the sender's computers.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From laff at massiveblack.com  Sat Jun  3 00:39:28 2006
From: laff at massiveblack.com (The Lafferty)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 15:39:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] As list administrator,
	your authorization is requested for the following mailing list
	posting:
Message-ID: <20060602223935.8CAC11E400D@bag.python.org>

I'm still getting these messages even though:

in Privacy options>Sender filters>
Action to take for postings from non-members for which no explicit action is
defined is checked off as Accepted.

 

Also, even members posts are held for approval.

 

Help please.

 

thanks

 

Mailman version 2.1.7



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun  3 02:07:38 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 17:07:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] As list administrator,
	your authorization is requested for the following mailing
	listposting:
In-Reply-To: <20060602223935.8CAC11E400D@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC174020060602170738056221d74d38@msapiro>

The Lafferty wrote:

>I'm still getting these messages even though:
>
>in Privacy options>Sender filters>
>Action to take for postings from non-members for which no explicit action is
>defined is checked off as Accepted.
>
> 
>
>Also, even members posts are held for approval.


What is the reason why the posts are held? The reason is in the notice
to the moderator and in the admindb interface and in Mailman's vette
log.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jesse at solidot.org  Sat Jun  3 06:37:33 2006
From: jesse at solidot.org (J. Lee)
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 12:37:33 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Listinfo page template
Message-ID: <41483dbd0606022137g47d59baavb39f7862f7883ac3@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I want to add my site logo to listinfo page (
http://lists.mysite.org/mailman/listinfo), but didn't found which template
file to change.
any help?

Thanks!


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun  3 06:51:48 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 21:51:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Listinfo page template
In-Reply-To: <41483dbd0606022137g47d59baavb39f7862f7883ac3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060221514803752817b547@msapiro>

J. Lee wrote:
>
>I want to add my site logo to listinfo page (
>http://lists.mysite.org/mailman/listinfo), but didn't found which template
>file to change.
>any help?


The listinfo overview page is not built from a template. It is built on
the fly by Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From axel at essbaum.com  Sat Jun  3 16:27:42 2006
From: axel at essbaum.com (Axel Essbaum)
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 16:27:42 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] replace attachment with text
Message-ID: <6a0579af0606030727q2bf8ebe8y3558ebee8746fa6f@mail.gmail.com>

I am running a Mailman 2.1.7 mailing list and stripping attachments
using the default content type and filename extension settings (the
only change I made from default was to set 'Should Mailman filter...'
to Yes).

Is it possible for me to replace attachments with a simple message
stating that the attachment was stripped?

I am trying to avoid the situation where a user sends a message with
an attachment, the attachment is stripped and the remaining text is
posted, and the sender thinks they forgot to include the attachment
and so they post again (and again...) trying to make their attachment
get through.

Thanks!

-- 
Axel Essbaum
axel at essbaum.com


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun  3 17:04:50 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 08:04:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] replace attachment with text
In-Reply-To: <6a0579af0606030727q2bf8ebe8y3558ebee8746fa6f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060603080450075070936240@msapiro>

Axel Essbaum wrote:

>I am running a Mailman 2.1.7 mailing list and stripping attachments
>using the default content type and filename extension settings (the
>only change I made from default was to set 'Should Mailman filter...'
>to Yes).
>
>Is it possible for me to replace attachments with a simple message
>stating that the attachment was stripped?


There is no setting to do this. You would have to modify
Mailman/Handlers/MimeDel.py.

If you don't care if attachments are discarded or not, instead of
filtering content, you could turn on scrub_nondigest which will cause
non-text/plain attachments to be stored aside and replaced by URLs.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jesse at solidot.org  Sat Jun  3 20:45:40 2006
From: jesse at solidot.org (J. Lee)
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 02:45:40 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Listinfo page template
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006060221514803752817b547@msapiro>
References: <41483dbd0606022137g47d59baavb39f7862f7883ac3@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006060221514803752817b547@msapiro>
Message-ID: <41483dbd0606031145k4cdb87bbr84f1ba891a2cb133@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, I am looking into it.

On 6/3/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> J. Lee wrote:
> >
> >I want to add my site logo to listinfo page (
> >http://lists.mysite.org/mailman/listinfo), but didn't found which
> template
> >file to change.
> >any help?
>
>
> The listinfo overview page is not built from a template. It is built on
> the fly by Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From tech at candledark.net  Sat Jun  3 21:56:30 2006
From: tech at candledark.net (Thomas)
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 15:56:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help with an install
In-Reply-To: <41483dbd0606022137g47d59baavb39f7862f7883ac3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060603195605.DC0FA4FC20@buc3.barbourville.com>

I need someone familiar with Mailman and Ensim/virtual domains to get an
install working right. I've got it installed and parts work, parts don't.
I've hammered at it for as long as I care too, and I've reached the limit of
my abilities. It's probably a simple fix but I'm just not seeing it, so I'm
ready to hire someone to fight it for me. Anyone willing to take a crack at
it let me know and we'll work out a deal.

Thomas



From webmaster at godogsomaha.org  Sun Jun  4 01:24:57 2006
From: webmaster at godogsomaha.org (Webmaster)
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 18:24:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounced messages?
Message-ID: <7105474B-FA6C-4C27-8F2A-AD5F7336F12D@godogsomaha.org>

Is there a way to see what messages bounce? I would find it helpful  
to keep a mailing list up to date to know which messages don't get  
through.

-------------------------------------------------------
Steven Weyhrich <IX0YE>--<
Go Dogs! Webmaster
http://www.GoDogsOmaha.org




From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jun  4 01:44:56 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 16:44:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounced messages?
In-Reply-To: <7105474B-FA6C-4C27-8F2A-AD5F7336F12D@godogsomaha.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060316445609376cbf9ee1@msapiro>

Webmaster wrote:

>Is there a way to see what messages bounce? I would find it helpful  
>to keep a mailing list up to date to know which messages don't get  
>through.


If Bounce processing is on, bounces are logged in Mailman's bounce log.
In addition, you can turn on the various notifications to have
unrecognized bounces and/or a copy of the bounce that causes a
member's delivery to be disabled forwarded to the list owner.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sun Jun  4 07:41:15 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 01:41:15 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] distributing Mailman between 2 systems
Message-ID: <4482727B.6020800@yahoo.com>

I would like to move the pipermail archives to a different host then the 
main Mailman system.  Specifically for better archive searching 
performance with htdig.  Is this possible?

-Jim P.


From todd at simplyjew.com  Sun Jun  4 18:19:53 2006
From: todd at simplyjew.com (todd at simplyjew.com)
Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 12:19:53 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] show senders address
Message-ID: <20060604121953.v97rdwi1ycw0owcs@70.98.111.60>

Hi. I am trying to set my list up so that the senders address appears
in the header. Ideally, the list users should see who sent the email.
The reply should still direct the message back to the list, but like I
said, the user can see who sent the message as well. Any help would be
appreciated. Thanks, Todd


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jun  4 19:02:05 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 10:02:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] show senders address
In-Reply-To: <20060604121953.v97rdwi1ycw0owcs@70.98.111.60>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606041002050406562213fb@msapiro>

todd at simplyjew.com wrote:

>Hi. I am trying to set my list up so that the senders address appears
>in the header. Ideally, the list users should see who sent the email.
>The reply should still direct the message back to the list, but like I
>said, the user can see who sent the message as well. Any help would be
>appreciated. Thanks, Todd


On the list's General Options page, as long as anonymous_list is No,
the sender will be in the From: header.

If you want simple reply to go only to the list, see the
first_strip_reply_to and reply_goes_to_list options on the same page.
Read and consider the information at the "(Details for
reply_goes_to_list)" link.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun  5 00:04:03 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 15:04:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] distributing Mailman between 2 systems
In-Reply-To: <4482727B.6020800@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606041504030187b184529e@msapiro>

Jim Popovitch wrote:

>I would like to move the pipermail archives to a different host then the 
>main Mailman system.  Specifically for better archive searching 
>performance with htdig.  Is this possible?


You have basically two issues. One is getting the archived messages
onto the other host, and the other is accessing them.

To get messages archived on (call it) archives.example.com, you could
have Mailman installed and running there. Then, for each list, you
could have the active version, say list at lists.example.com be your
normal list with the addition of list at archives.example.com as a member
and archiving turned off. Then you set up list at archives.example.com
with list-bounces at lists.example.com as the only member (with delivery
and password reminders disabled, to accept the relayed posts) and with
the archive settings you want.

There are probably other ways to do this using external archiver
settings on lists.example.com or by having archives on both hosts and
using rsync to update the archives host, but the above seems simple
enough.

Assuming you're doing the first method, you probably want to set
ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX = -1 in mm_cfg.py on lists.example.com so the archiver
doesn't do any archiving at all. Then you can put your own pages in
archives/private/<listname>/index.html on lists.example.com. These
pages could redirect to the corresponding archive on
archives.example.com. Also, for public archives, you could set
PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL in mm_cfg.py on lists.example.com to point to
archives.example.com.

I haven't thought about this a lot. There may be other (better) ways.
See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.004.htp>
for some additional info.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From r.barrett at openinfo.co.uk  Mon Jun  5 01:41:24 2006
From: r.barrett at openinfo.co.uk (Richard Barrett)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 00:41:24 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] distributing Mailman between 2 systems
In-Reply-To: <4482727B.6020800@yahoo.com>
References: <4482727B.6020800@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B3CAF1CF-CA6B-46E2-9C16-A2679BB01BAE@openinfo.co.uk>


On 4 Jun 2006, at 06:41, Jim Popovitch wrote:

> I would like to move the pipermail archives to a different host  
> then the
> main Mailman system.  Specifically for better archive searching
> performance with htdig.  Is this possible?
>
> -Jim P.

How you approach this depends on what you perceive your problem to be  
and what you mean by "better archive searching performance with htdig".

Like Google and other internet search engines, htdig splits the task  
into two parts: index construction and index search.

Index construction does the heavy lifting of scanning the source  
material and squirreling away in its indices a lot of detail of which  
indexed source files contain what. This can be quite a slow process  
especially when a large body of material has to be initially scanned  
and indexed. It is probably best treated as a batch process run a  
times of light load from other work on the system doing it. Depending  
on the material concerned and how you configure htdig this indexing  
may produce very large indices which can come close to being in the  
same order of magnitude of storage size as the raw source material.  
Many lists with large indices can generate demand for much CPU and  
potentially much storage during indexing (and after in the case of  
storage).

On the other hand index searching to produce a list of source files  
that match the search criteria induces a much lower load on the  
system concerned; after all it is just looking up words in pre-built  
search indices.

The problem with this approach is that search indices are never  
completely up-to-the-minute; but consider how often does Google's  
crawler visit your web site. While updating search indices when new  
documents are added to the archive material should be less load- 
inducing than the original construction of the indices, configuring  
cron jobs so that htdig rebuilds it indices too frequently is not  
advisable. The updating of indices can still involve a lot of IO as  
htdig walks a lot of files to determine which of the existing  
material has been changed as well as what has been added as new.

So first you should define what problem you are trying to solve as  
regards to using htdig before deciding what to do next.

You could plan on having your HTML mail archives integrated with  
Mailman e.g. using pipermail or a pipermail/MHonArc synthesis for the  
archive pages and having htdig integrated with that; I know you are  
aware of the patches available to support this approach and that  
there are some benefits as regard archive privacy being maintained  
and such. I will deal with this integrated approach first. You could  
deploy multiple processors to address the issues by using NFS to  
share the mailman archive storage space between them.

Paranthetically, I successfully ran Mailman on x86 Linux boxes  
entirely out of NFS mounted storage on enterprise level servers for a  
number years, primarily to provide for rapid-ish switchover to a  
backup server in the case of primary Mailman server hardware failure,  
which happened on several occasions. At the time I found that I had  
to limit NFS read/write transfer sizes on the Linux boxes to avoid  
problems in the Linux kernel locking associated with the NFS  
implementation then available. Nowadays I am running Mailman on  
Solaris 10 which has no such problems but I guess the Linux' NFS  
implementation has also improved in the meantime.

The simplest split you could consider is moving the htdig  
installation and workload to a separate machine. The Mailman/htdig  
integration patches support this configuration in conjunction with  
NFS sharing of the Mailman archives files if you look at the  
documentation here:

http://www.openinfo.co.uk/mm/patches/444884/install.html#rconfig

This configuration leaves one machine running Mailman and being  
responsible for providing access to archive material while a second  
machine does htdig's index maintenance. Mailman also "subcontracts"  
each index search requested by a user to the htdig machine but the  
URLs returned in the search results mean that the Mailman machines  
delivers the material from the archives, not the htdig machine.

The question you asked was how to move the pipermail archives to  
another system. Using NFS again, it might be possible to run some of  
Mailman's qrunners on one machine and others (for example, the  
archive runner) on a second to partition things but I have never had  
the time or energy to set up systems to explore the issues of such a  
configuration but somebody else may have pushed the envelope this  
way. As an aside, I would avoid like the plague NFS cross-mounting of  
volumes between machines in any configuration.

If you decide none of the above is appropriate to what you want to  
achieve and the way you want to achieve it then you may be asking the  
wrong question in my view. Maybe you should deploying a mailing list  
archiving system independent of Mailman and you could do worse than  
look at the model set by http://www.mail-archive.com, as a starting  
point.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Barrett                               http://www.openinfo.co.uk




From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jun  5 03:22:00 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 21:22:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] distributing Mailman between 2 systems
In-Reply-To: <B3CAF1CF-CA6B-46E2-9C16-A2679BB01BAE@openinfo.co.uk>
References: <4482727B.6020800@yahoo.com>
	<B3CAF1CF-CA6B-46E2-9C16-A2679BB01BAE@openinfo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <44838738.1090105@yahoo.com>

Wow! thank you Richard.  Apologies for the top post, but I didn't quite 
know where to jump-in on your comments, and I didn't want to truncate 
any of them either.   Thank you for the detailed info.

My issue is that the Mailman host is quite busy processing in/outbound 
email and providing Mailman web access to listinfo, admin, options, etc. 
(via Apache)  When rundig (via nightly_htdig) runs it consumes almost 
all the host CPU resources (5min loadavg hovers at 11% for 5+ hours). 
This has an adverse affect on response times for Apache and the MTA due 
to file system issues (multiple drives and partitions, but in the end 
still just IDE)

My issue isn't so much that I need to move pipermail or the archives to 
a different host but rather just the indexing of them.  I like your 
mailman+htdig integration for pw protected lists, so splitting Mailman 
up from the archives would probably break that or at least make it 
difficult.

Additionally I would like to run nightly_htdig in a continuous loop on 
the second host, constantly cycling through lists and re-digging each as 
needed.

I know how to tweak htdig.conf so that indexing on one host can return 
htsearch results for another.  I know that NFS could help out, but I'm 
forever concerned about NFS security and network issues because I lease 
external hosts from multiple providers and their will always be wan 
issues between them.

What I am thinking of doing (based on your's and Mark's comments) is to 
rsync archive/private/* to a second host and run nightly_htdig on that 
system.  I can then use Apache config to redirect the htsearch queries 
to the second host, and have the results returned point back at the 
primary Mailman host.  I *think* this will work, but need to test.

-Jim P.

Richard Barrett wrote:
> 
> On 4 Jun 2006, at 06:41, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> 
>> I would like to move the pipermail archives to a different host then the
>> main Mailman system.  Specifically for better archive searching
>> performance with htdig.  Is this possible?
>>
>> -Jim P.
> 
> How you approach this depends on what you perceive your problem to be 
> and what you mean by "better archive searching performance with htdig".
> 
> Like Google and other internet search engines, htdig splits the task 
> into two parts: index construction and index search.
> 
> Index construction does the heavy lifting of scanning the source 
> material and squirreling away in its indices a lot of detail of which 
> indexed source files contain what. This can be quite a slow process 
> especially when a large body of material has to be initially scanned and 
> indexed. It is probably best treated as a batch process run a times of 
> light load from other work on the system doing it. Depending on the 
> material concerned and how you configure htdig this indexing may produce 
> very large indices which can come close to being in the same order of 
> magnitude of storage size as the raw source material. Many lists with 
> large indices can generate demand for much CPU and potentially much 
> storage during indexing (and after in the case of storage).
> 
> On the other hand index searching to produce a list of source files that 
> match the search criteria induces a much lower load on the system 
> concerned; after all it is just looking up words in pre-built search 
> indices.
> 
> The problem with this approach is that search indices are never 
> completely up-to-the-minute; but consider how often does Google's 
> crawler visit your web site. While updating search indices when new 
> documents are added to the archive material should be less load-inducing 
> than the original construction of the indices, configuring cron jobs so 
> that htdig rebuilds it indices too frequently is not advisable. The 
> updating of indices can still involve a lot of IO as htdig walks a lot 
> of files to determine which of the existing material has been changed as 
> well as what has been added as new.
> 
> So first you should define what problem you are trying to solve as 
> regards to using htdig before deciding what to do next.
> 
> You could plan on having your HTML mail archives integrated with Mailman 
> e.g. using pipermail or a pipermail/MHonArc synthesis for the archive 
> pages and having htdig integrated with that; I know you are aware of the 
> patches available to support this approach and that there are some 
> benefits as regard archive privacy being maintained and such. I will 
> deal with this integrated approach first. You could deploy multiple 
> processors to address the issues by using NFS to share the mailman 
> archive storage space between them.
> 
> Paranthetically, I successfully ran Mailman on x86 Linux boxes entirely 
> out of NFS mounted storage on enterprise level servers for a number 
> years, primarily to provide for rapid-ish switchover to a backup server 
> in the case of primary Mailman server hardware failure, which happened 
> on several occasions. At the time I found that I had to limit NFS 
> read/write transfer sizes on the Linux boxes to avoid problems in the 
> Linux kernel locking associated with the NFS implementation then 
> available. Nowadays I am running Mailman on Solaris 10 which has no such 
> problems but I guess the Linux' NFS implementation has also improved in 
> the meantime.
> 
> The simplest split you could consider is moving the htdig installation 
> and workload to a separate machine. The Mailman/htdig integration 
> patches support this configuration in conjunction with NFS sharing of 
> the Mailman archives files if you look at the documentation here:
> 
> http://www.openinfo.co.uk/mm/patches/444884/install.html#rconfig
> 
> This configuration leaves one machine running Mailman and being 
> responsible for providing access to archive material while a second 
> machine does htdig's index maintenance. Mailman also "subcontracts" each 
> index search requested by a user to the htdig machine but the URLs 
> returned in the search results mean that the Mailman machines delivers 
> the material from the archives, not the htdig machine.
> 
> The question you asked was how to move the pipermail archives to another 
> system. Using NFS again, it might be possible to run some of Mailman's 
> qrunners on one machine and others (for example, the archive runner) on 
> a second to partition things but I have never had the time or energy to 
> set up systems to explore the issues of such a configuration but 
> somebody else may have pushed the envelope this way. As an aside, I 
> would avoid like the plague NFS cross-mounting of volumes between 
> machines in any configuration.
> 
> If you decide none of the above is appropriate to what you want to 
> achieve and the way you want to achieve it then you may be asking the 
> wrong question in my view. Maybe you should deploying a mailing list 
> archiving system independent of Mailman and you could do worse than look 
> at the model set by http://www.mail-archive.com, as a starting point.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Richard Barrett                               http://www.openinfo.co.uk
> 
> 
> 


From ke6isf at chez-vrolet.net  Mon Jun  5 03:32:22 2006
From: ke6isf at chez-vrolet.net (Dennis Carr)
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 18:32:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 404 for pipermail - where's the data live?
Message-ID: <20060604183222.bdd34f80.ke6isf@chez-vrolet.net>

Using this URL for a list in pipermail:

http://chez-vrolet.net/pipermail/makebelieve/

...I get a 404.  My archives are going *somewhere*, I just don't know
where - can somebody point me to where they live?

Noting that I'm running Debian 3.1.

-Dennis Carr


From jebva at yahoo.com  Mon Jun  5 10:44:19 2006
From: jebva at yahoo.com (7D)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 01:44:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Second request - Code edit question.
Message-ID: <20060605084419.16885.qmail@web30915.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

So I ask a TECHNICAL question on the developers list which in the sign up for these lists says if for technical questions, and I am promptly told to put the question on the users list which is non-technical.  OK so now I am asking here (in the wrong place by y'alls descriptions) how to do something.  Sorry if I sound a little frustrated, but had the descriptions of the lists not been written so poorly I would probably have an answer by now.  ANYWAY...  Can someone PLEASE help me with editing the canned standard confirmation emails for subscribing and unsubscribing to lists?  basically a customer wnats to remove the reference to the web inteface method of confirming the requested action.  Any help in getting this takenb care of would greatly be apprecaited.
   
  Thanks,
  Alan

 __________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun  5 04:15:31 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 19:15:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 404 for pipermail - where's the data live?
In-Reply-To: <20060604183222.bdd34f80.ke6isf@chez-vrolet.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606041915310671b90c901e@msapiro>

Dennis Carr wrote:

>Using this URL for a list in pipermail:
>
>http://chez-vrolet.net/pipermail/makebelieve/
>
>...I get a 404.  My archives are going *somewhere*, I just don't know
>where - can somebody point me to where they live?


Your actual archives are in archives/private/* within the Mailman
hierarchy. Public archives have symlinks in archives/public/*. You
should have something like

Alias   /pipermail/     /path/to/archives/public/

in your httpd.conf and maybe

<Directory "/path/to/archives/public">
    Options +FollowSymLinks
</Directory>

if that isn't already implied elsewhere. See
<http://mailman.sourceforge.net/mailman-install/node10.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From t.d.lee at durham.ac.uk  Mon Jun  5 16:03:12 2006
From: t.d.lee at durham.ac.uk (David Lee)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 15:03:12 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] partial (silent) non-delivery
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0606051501340.29049@arachne.dur.ac.uk>

We're new to mailman, which we are testing on our own departmental staff
list prior to wider roll-out at the univeristy.

System:
   Fedora Core 5
   Mailman 2.1.8 (RPM: mailman-2.1.8-0.FC5.1)
   sendmail 8.13.6 (RPM: sendmail-8.13.6-0.FC5.1)


On the test list for our staff (89 members), some of the emails are
failing, while others succeed.  On a failure email:
1. it only reaches 59 (out of 89) recipients;
2. it loses the hidden headers ("Received:" etc.) prior to the Mailman
   expansion;
3. Instead of:
      From: a.n.other at our.site
      Sender: ourlist-bounces at our.site
   we see just:
      From: ourlist-bounces at our.site
   (no sender; "From" replaced by expected "Sender" contents).
4. The sendmail log shows one of the names to get truncated (from
   "a.b.longname at our.site" to "a.b.lon at our.site".
5. The mailman log files (bounce,post,smtp,vette) don't show anything
   unusual at all.
6. In the body of one of the emails I noticed that what the user had
   typed as "===========" (a set of equals signs as a visual underliner)
   appeared as "=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D...", as though
   some MIME misunderstanding had occured.


We're stumped.

(When we tried re-sending a failed email, including in it a "Bcc:"
directly to me but still through the Mailman machine, it worked.)

A thought: The emails are emanating from Exchange 2003, Service Pack 2.
Might Exchange be generating something non-conformant (its bug) which
Mailman could then be tripping over (Mailman problem)?

Incidentally, one of the mail names on the list contains an apostrophe of
the form: Someone.O'Surname at our.site .  We have seen this sort of thing
cause trouble very occasionally on other email systems.  But if that
really were relevant, then I would expect it to be consistent for all the
mails to the list, not just some of them.

Any ideas?

-- 

:  David Lee                                I.T. Service          :
:  Senior Systems Programmer                Computer Centre       :
:                                           Durham University     :
:  http://www.dur.ac.uk/t.d.lee/            South Road            :
:                                           Durham DH1 3LE        :
:  Phone: +44 191 334 2752                  U.K.                  :


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Jun  5 16:05:52 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 09:05:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Second request - Code edit question.
In-Reply-To: <20060605084419.16885.qmail@web30915.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060605084419.16885.qmail@web30915.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p06200704c0a9e706a65a@[10.0.1.210]>

At 1:44 AM -0700 2006-06-05, 7D wrote:

>  So I ask a TECHNICAL question on the developers list which in the sign up
>  for these lists says if for technical questions, and I am promptly told to
>  put the question on the users list which is non-technical.  OK so now I
>  am asking here (in the wrong place by y'alls descriptions) how to do
>  something.  Sorry if I sound a little frustrated, but had the descriptions
>  of the lists not been written so poorly I would probably have an answer
>  by now.

	Looking at the Mailman listinfo page at 
<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo>, it says that the 
Mailman-developers list is for "GNU Mailman developers", and the 
Mailman-users list is for "Mailman mailing list management users".

	If you go to the list-specific information page for 
mailman-developers, the top two paragraphs are:

		This list is for discussion of the Mailman mailing list
		management system. It is open to people interested in
		improving the usability of the system, including end
		users as well as mailing list managers and development
		coders.

		There is a separate mailing list for people interested
		in discussion regarding configuring and using the
		system - mailman-users.

	In the list=specific information page for mailman-users, it says:

		This mailing list is for users and other parties interested
		in the Mailman mailing list management system. There is a
		separate mailing list for people interested in discussion
		about development of the system - mailman-developers.


	Are you asking a question that relates to development on Mailman? 
If so, then the Mailman-developers list might be the appropriate 
place to ask that.  Otherwise, mailman-users is a better place to go.


	If you have any specific recommendations regarding how we can 
improve the wording of the one-line description and the list-specific 
information text, please let us know.



	My take on your question is that it is operational in nature, and 
you have not developed any Python code to address this issue, nor do 
you have specific Python code that you would like to discuss 
regarding this matter.  If I'm wrong, please let me know.

	Unfortunately, I don't have an answer for your problem.  I 
suspect that you may be able to edit one of the list templates to 
obtain the desired result, but it might also be the case that the 
text you're looking at is generated internally to one of the Python 
routines within Mailman, and therefore you would need to make a minor 
modification to the source code.

	I would encourage you to search the FAQ Wizard and the list 
archives for "template", as well as some of the key words/phrases 
you're looking to remove, and see what turns up.


	Either way, mailman-users is almost certainly a more appropriate 
place to ask this question than mailman-developers.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun  5 16:17:01 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 07:17:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Second request - Code edit question.
In-Reply-To: <20060605084419.16885.qmail@web30915.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060507170102341e7a14eb@msapiro>

7D wrote:

>So I ask a TECHNICAL question on the developers list which in the sign up for these lists says if for technical questions, and I am promptly told to put the question on the users list which is non-technical.  OK so now I am asking here (in the wrong place by y'alls descriptions) how to do something.


Brad has addressed this in another reply.


>Sorry if I sound a little frustrated, but had the descriptions of the lists not been written so poorly I would probably have an answer by now.  


And if you'd looked in the FAQ first, you might too.


>ANYWAY...  Can someone PLEASE help me with editing the canned standard confirmation emails for subscribing and unsubscribing to lists?  basically a customer wnats to remove the reference to the web inteface method of confirming the requested action.  Any help in getting this takenb care of would greatly be apprecaited.


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>.
The particular templates you want are unsub.txt and verify.txt. You
can make list specific, domain specific or sitewide, edited versions
of these per the FAQ.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Jun  5 16:15:41 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 09:15:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Second request - Code edit question.
In-Reply-To: <p06200704c0a9e706a65a@[10.0.1.210]>
References: <20060605084419.16885.qmail@web30915.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<p06200704c0a9e706a65a@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <p06200705c0a9ec89f109@[10.0.1.210]>

At 9:05 AM -0500 2006-06-05, Brad Knowles wrote:

>  	I would encourage you to search the FAQ Wizard and the list
>  archives for "template", as well as some of the key words/phrases
>  you're looking to remove, and see what turns up.

	It turns out that a trivially simple search of the Mailman-users 
archives (following the instructions at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.018.htp>) 
turns up the answer.  Search for "template" and "confirmation".

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun  5 16:49:46 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 07:49:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] partial (silent) non-delivery
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0606051501340.29049@arachne.dur.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060507494603288a117236@msapiro>

David Lee wrote:
>
>System:
>   Fedora Core 5
>   Mailman 2.1.8 (RPM: mailman-2.1.8-0.FC5.1)
>   sendmail 8.13.6 (RPM: sendmail-8.13.6-0.FC5.1)
>
>
>On the test list for our staff (89 members), some of the emails are
>failing, while others succeed.  On a failure email:
>1. it only reaches 59 (out of 89) recipients;


What is in Mailman's 'smtp', 'smtp-failure' and 'bounce' logs?
Specifically, are there any bounces recorded in the bounce log, (Is
bounce processing turned on for the list?) and how many recipients are
indicated in the smtp log entry?


>2. it loses the hidden headers ("Received:" etc.) prior to the Mailman
>   expansion;


Mailman doesn't remove any Received: headers.


>3. Instead of:
>      From: a.n.other at our.site
>      Sender: ourlist-bounces at our.site
>   we see just:
>      From: ourlist-bounces at our.site
>   (no sender; "From" replaced by expected "Sender" contents).


Are these the actual headers in the raw message or just what an MUA
shows? If the latter, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>.
If the former, I suspect Exchange.


>4. The sendmail log shows one of the names to get truncated (from
>   "a.b.longname at our.site" to "a.b.lon at our.site".


If the member address on the list is "a.b.longname at our.site", mailman
won't change it. (Unless maybe it's the one with the apostrophe, but
even then, I'd look outside Mailman first.)


>5. The mailman log files (bounce,post,smtp,vette) don't show anything
>   unusual at all.


See item 1 above - what is the number of recipiients in the smtp log
entry?


>6. In the body of one of the emails I noticed that what the user had
>   typed as "===========" (a set of equals signs as a visual underliner)
>   appeared as "=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D...", as though
>   some MIME misunderstanding had occured.


That is a raw rendering of a quoted-printable encoding. If you are
looking at a raw mesage and it has a "Content-Transfer-Encoding:
quoted-printable" header, this is normal. Otherwise, the encoding is
getting lost somewhere. It's possible, but unlikely that Mailman did
it. Bugs in this area should be fixed in 2.1.8.


>A thought: The emails are emanating from Exchange 2003, Service Pack 2.
>Might Exchange be generating something non-conformant (its bug) which
>Mailman could then be tripping over (Mailman problem)?


Exchange can screw up anything, but once the message gets to Mailman,
if it is sent at all, it should be sent to all eligible members. Are
all 89 members non-digest and delivery enabled?

Are there or were there ever Topics defined for the list? (I really
want to know the recipient count from the 'smtp' log.)

>Incidentally, one of the mail names on the list contains an apostrophe of
>the form: Someone.O'Surname at our.site .  We have seen this sort of thing
>cause trouble very occasionally on other email systems.  But if that
>really were relevant, then I would expect it to be consistent for all the
>mails to the list, not just some of them.


If this is an issue, it would only affect the one user unless sendmail
doesn't like it somehow and drops it and either all preceeding or
following RCPT addresses in that transaction.

I just reread the initial 'fails sometimes' part which I sort of
ignored. This is more puzzling, but most of what I ask above is still
relevant. Could there be some kind of anti-spam content filtering
affecting only the 30 missing? Are the failures from different posters
than the successes? Again, on the failed posts, what is the recipient
count from the 'smtp' log - what does sendmail's maillog say?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From t.d.lee at durham.ac.uk  Mon Jun  5 17:22:09 2006
From: t.d.lee at durham.ac.uk (David Lee)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 16:22:09 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] partial (silent) non-delivery
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006060507494603288a117236@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006060507494603288a117236@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0606051557480.29049@arachne.dur.ac.uk>

On Mon, 5 Jun 2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> David Lee wrote:
> >
> >System:
> >   Fedora Core 5
> >   Mailman 2.1.8 (RPM: mailman-2.1.8-0.FC5.1)
> >   sendmail 8.13.6 (RPM: sendmail-8.13.6-0.FC5.1)
> >
> >
> >On the test list for our staff (89 members), some of the emails are
> >failing, while others succeed.  On a failure email:
> >1. it only reaches 59 (out of 89) recipients;
>
>
> What is in Mailman's 'smtp', 'smtp-failure' and 'bounce' logs?
> Specifically, are there any bounces recorded in the bounce log, (Is
> bounce processing turned on for the list?) and how many recipients are
> indicated in the smtp log entry?

Thanks for the reply, Mark.  Appreciated.

smtp:  All cases:
     <...> smtp to ourlist for 89 recips, completed in ...

smtp-failure:  Nothing

bounce:  No error indications.

"bounce processing" webpage indicates "Yes" for all the yes/no tickboxes.




> >2. it loses the hidden headers ("Received:" etc.) prior to the Mailman
> >   expansion;
>
>
> Mailman doesn't remove any Received: headers.

On these duff emails, the headers prior to Mailman are absent.  Something
has removed them.  I'm speculating (and it is mere speculation without
evidence!) that a badly formatted incoming (or mismatched content;
8-bit-isms, etc.) email might be exposing some sort of lurking problem in
Mailman.


> >3. Instead of:
> >      From: a.n.other at our.site
> >      Sender: ourlist-bounces at our.site
> >   we see just:
> >      From: ourlist-bounces at our.site
> >   (no sender; "From" replaced by expected "Sender" contents).
>
>
> Are these the actual headers in the raw message or just what an MUA
> shows? If the latter, see
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>.
> If the former, I suspect Exchange.

Although the department is Exchange based (don't ask!) I'm personally
using good old trusty Pine to read this information from the copy of the
email that comes to me (fortunately I'm one of the 59 who receive it).
Yes, Outlook and OWA are (in general) conflating the "Sender:" and "From:"
so I'm painfully aware of that presentation issue.


> >4. The sendmail log shows one of the names to get truncated (from
> >   "a.b.longname at our.site" to "a.b.lon at our.site".
>
>
> If the member address on the list is "a.b.longname at our.site", mailman
> won't change it. (Unless maybe it's the one with the apostrophe, but
> even then, I'd look outside Mailman first.)

Again, this was just an observation.  Something, somewhere is going wrong,
and this is a _set_ of symptoms on such emails.


> >5. The mailman log files (bounce,post,smtp,vette) don't show anything
> >   unusual at all.
>
>
> See item 1 above - what is the number of recipiients in the smtp log
> entry?

89 (everyone).  But the sendmail log says 59 (on the bad emails; 89 on the
good).


> >6. In the body of one of the emails I noticed that what the user had
> >   typed as "===========" (a set of equals signs as a visual underliner)
> >   appeared as "=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D...", as though
> >   some MIME misunderstanding had occured.
>
>
> That is a raw rendering of a quoted-printable encoding. If you are
> looking at a raw mesage and it has a "Content-Transfer-Encoding:
> quoted-printable" header, this is normal. Otherwise, the encoding is
> getting lost somewhere. It's possible, but unlikely that Mailman did
> it. Bugs in this area should be fixed in 2.1.8.
>
>
> >A thought: The emails are emanating from Exchange 2003, Service Pack 2.
> >Might Exchange be generating something non-conformant (its bug) which
> >Mailman could then be tripping over (Mailman problem)?
>
>
> Exchange can screw up anything, but once the message gets to Mailman,
> if it is sent at all, it should be sent to all eligible members. Are
> all 89 members non-digest and delivery enabled?

The list is set up automatically with everyone identical: a typical
entry is ticked for "mods", "nodupes" and "plain".


> Are there or were there ever Topics defined for the list? (I really
> want to know the recipient count from the 'smtp' log.)

"Topics"?  I'm new to Mailman (but with several years email experience).
Guide me!


>
> >Incidentally, one of the mail names on the list contains an apostrophe of
> >the form: Someone.O'Surname at our.site .  We have seen this sort of thing
> >cause trouble very occasionally on other email systems.  But if that
> >really were relevant, then I would expect it to be consistent for all the
> >mails to the list, not just some of them.
>
>
> If this is an issue, it would only affect the one user unless sendmail
> doesn't like it somehow and drops it and either all preceeding or
> following RCPT addresses in that transaction.

The list membership is basically static.  The apostrophe person has been
here many years and her email has been fine.


>
> I just reread the initial 'fails sometimes' part which I sort of
> ignored. This is more puzzling, but most of what I ask above is still
> relevant. Could there be some kind of anti-spam content filtering
> affecting only the 30 missing? Are the failures from different posters
> than the successes? Again, on the failed posts, what is the recipient
> count from the 'smtp' log - what does sendmail's maillog say?

Yes it is that "sometimes" which is baffling.  An email to the list failed
(as described, with that set of symptoms) this morning.  A repost
(admittedly slightly edited)  to appease those who would complain of
double receipt worked (all symptoms gone).

Shall I zip up the logs and email them to you off-list?  (I've had a good
look through them, but you may still spot something I've missed.)

Are there any debug/log/trace things/flags/switches that I could enable?



-- 

:  David Lee                                I.T. Service          :
:  Senior Systems Programmer                Computer Centre       :
:                                           Durham University     :
:  http://www.dur.ac.uk/t.d.lee/            South Road            :
:                                           Durham DH1 3LE        :
:  Phone: +44 191 334 2752                  U.K.                  :


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Mon Jun  5 17:37:03 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 08:37:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Second request - Code edit question.
In-Reply-To: <20060605084419.16885.qmail@web30915.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060605084419.16885.qmail@web30915.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060605083136.06037f78@crimson-dragon.com>

7D wrote:
>So I ask a TECHNICAL question on the developers list which in the 
>sign up for these lists says if for technical questions, and I am 
>promptly told to put the question on the users list which is 
>non-technical.  OK so now I am asking here (in the wrong place by 
>y'alls descriptions) how to do something.  Sorry if I sound a little 
>frustrated, but had the descriptions of the lists not been written 
>so poorly I would probably have an answer by now.  ANYWAY...  Can 
>someone PLEASE help me with editing the canned standard confirmation 
>emails for subscribing and unsubscribing to lists?  basically a 
>customer wnats to remove the reference to the web inteface method of 
>confirming the requested action.  Any help in getting this takenb 
>care of would greatly be apprecaited.
>
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

Going into a user-supported, open-source community demanding help 
with an attitude like this is not going to win you any points.

Mark and Brad answered your question for you but a bit of due 
diligence on your part would have saved a lot of vitriol and you 
would not have annoyed two of the most helpful, knowledgeable and 
active members of this forum.

There is an extensive FAQ with a search facility that would have 
gotten you the answer you needed without the unpleasantness.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From jwblist3 at olympus.net  Mon Jun  5 18:00:58 2006
From: jwblist3 at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 09:00:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Second request - Code edit question.
In-Reply-To: <20060605084419.16885.qmail@web30915.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C0A9A34A.CE57%jwblist3@olympus.net>

On 6/5/06 1:44 AM, "7D" <jebva at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Can someone PLEASE help me with editing the canned standard confirmation
> emails for subscribing and unsubscribing to lists?  basically a customer wnats
> to remove the reference to the web inteface method of confirming the requested
> action.  Any help in getting this takenb care of would greatly be apprecaited.

Brad and Mark have provided the answer.

If one is part of an organization which tries to train its people not to
click on links in email--a reasonable training goal in today's malware
world, it seems wrong for that organization's mailing lists to send out
email which strongly encourages clicking on such links.

Having not found that idea in the Feature Requests section on SourceForge, I
have added item 1501086 there covering it.

  --John (who normally discards list messages with subjects containing
"Second request" and the like, but didn't this time)





From danielbk at ornl.gov  Mon Jun  5 18:09:35 2006
From: danielbk at ornl.gov (Daniel, Barry K.)
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 12:09:35 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Sendmail debugging questions
Message-ID: <890ECEBADF00794ABC9C94752F4C0CEB01D143D8@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>

Sorry this is so late since the last update but I have been on travel.
My attempt to send email to the Mailman mailing list is bouncing and I
do not know why.  Here are some excerpts from some appropriate files.
Any suggestions?

mailertable

domain.gov                 mailman:domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov

 

virtualusertable

##

## Place mailing list virtual mappings here

testlist at domain.gov                        testlist

testlist-admin at domain.gov                  testlist-admin

testlist-bounces at domain.gov                testlist-bounces

testlist-confirm at domain.gov                testlist-confirm

testlist-join at domain.gov                   testlist-join

testlist-leave at domain.gov                  testlist-leave

testlist-owner at domain.gov                  testlist-owner

testlist-request at domain.gov                testlist-request

testlist-subscribe at domain.gov              testlist-subscribe

testlist-unsubscribe at domain.gov            testlist-unsubscribe

 

##

## Redirect mail to the standard Mailman admin addresses to the

## master admin address. ( is our site's central

## mail-routing server, and it carries aliases for maintenance groups.

## Not a good plan to entrust Mailman maintenance mail to Mailman.)

##

mailman at listserv.domain.gov                mailman-owner at domain.gov

mailman-owner at listserv.domain.gov          mailman-owner at domain.gov

 

/usr/local/mailman/logs/smtp

May 19 01:19:56 2006 (8840) <fcc2a6a24143.446d1d39 at domain.gov> smtp to
testlist for 4 recips, completed in 0.080 seconds

"/usr/local/mailman/logs/smtp" 56 lines, 7782 characters

May 19 08:00:02 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1148040001.9670.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.101 seconds

May 20 08:00:02 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1148126400.12254.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.067 seconds

May 21 08:00:01 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1148212800.14751.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.089 seconds

May 22 08:00:02 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1148299201.17245.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.122 seconds

May 23 08:00:02 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1148385601.19920.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.106 seconds

May 24 08:00:02 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1148472000.25754.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.081 seconds

May 25 08:00:03 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1148558401.2563.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.078 seconds

May 26 08:00:02 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1148644800.8882.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.108 seconds

May 27 08:00:03 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1148731201.23378.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.099 seconds

May 28 08:00:01 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1148817601.7850.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.108 seconds

May 29 08:00:02 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1148904001.22295.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.097 seconds

May 30 08:00:01 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1148990400.6750.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.104 seconds

May 31 08:00:01 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1149076800.21419.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.098 seconds

Jun 01 08:00:03 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1149163201.5829.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.103 seconds

Jun 02 08:00:02 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1149249600.20237.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.076 seconds

Jun 03 08:00:01 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1149336000.4898.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.099 seconds

Jun 04 08:00:03 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1149422401.19476.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.098 seconds

Jun 05 08:00:02 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1149508800.3782.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.088 seconds

 

/var/log/maillog

Jun  5 08:00:02 domainwcs1 sendmail[3803]: [ID 801593 mail.info]
k55C028Z003803: from=<testlist-bounces at domainmta.domainpriv.gov>,
size=2214, class=-60,

nrcpts=1,
msgid=<mailman.0.1149508800.3782.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov>,
proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]

Jun  5 08:00:02 domainwcs1 sendmail[3805]: [ID 801593 mail.info]
k55C028Z003803: to=<testlist-owner at domainmta.domainpriv.gov>,
delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=smtp, pri=230214,
relay=smtp.domainpriv.gov. [10.31.162.17], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (2.5.0
Ok.)


-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Bogen [mailto:pdbogen at gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 10:44 PM
To: Daniel, Barry K.
Cc: Mark Sapiro; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Sendmail debugging questions

On 5/18/06, Daniel, Barry K. <danielbk at ornl.gov> wrote:
>
> Yes, I did rebuild the aliases file and restart Sendmail.
> The messages are arriving at the Mailman server with a @domain.gov
address, not @domainpriv.gov.
> How do I ensure that Sendmail is set to accept this as a local
delivery address?  The Mailman machine is XXXX.domainpriv.gov.

There are a couple of ways to do this with sendmail. If you have
mailertable support, you can add a rule to your mailertable like:

domain.gov local:

Or, perhaps, you can add domain.gov to sendmail's 'local-host-names'
file.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun  5 18:34:11 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 09:34:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] partial (silent) non-delivery
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0606051557480.29049@arachne.dur.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606050934110187224deac6@msapiro>

David Lee wrote:

>smtp:  All cases:
>     <...> smtp to ourlist for 89 recips, completed in ...
>
>smtp-failure:  Nothing
>
>bounce:  No error indications.
>
>"bounce processing" webpage indicates "Yes" for all the yes/no tickboxes.


OK. This tells us that Mailman delivered the post to sendmail for 89
recipients and there were no errors reported back to Mailman at the
SMTP transaction level and no subsequent bounces (recognized bounces
would be counted in the bounce log and unrecognized bounces forwarded
to the list owner.



>> >2. it loses the hidden headers ("Received:" etc.) prior to the Mailman
>> >   expansion;
>>
>>
>> Mailman doesn't remove any Received: headers.
>
>On these duff emails, the headers prior to Mailman are absent.  Something
>has removed them.  I'm speculating (and it is mere speculation without
>evidence!) that a badly formatted incoming (or mismatched content;
>8-bit-isms, etc.) email might be exposing some sort of lurking problem in
>Mailman.


If there were such a lurking problem, I can't see how it would cause
this problem. The message gets all the way through Mailman to the
'out' queue and has 89 recipients. The problem would have to cause
SMTPDirect to drop some recipients yet still count them. It's hard to
see how this could happen.

Is there anything in Mailman's error log? Anything in the 'shunt' queue
(qfiles/shunt directory)?


>> >3. Instead of:
>> >      From: a.n.other at our.site
>> >      Sender: ourlist-bounces at our.site
>> >   we see just:
>> >      From: ourlist-bounces at our.site
>> >   (no sender; "From" replaced by expected "Sender" contents).


Always, or just on problem cases? Assuming SMTPDirect is unmodified, it
always adds a "Sender: ourlist-bounces at our.site" header to the
outgoing message. Thus, deletion of Sender: must be happening after
Mailman.


>> >4. The sendmail log shows one of the names to get truncated (from
>> >   "a.b.longname at our.site" to "a.b.lon at our.site".
>>
>>
>> If the member address on the list is "a.b.longname at our.site", mailman
>> won't change it. (Unless maybe it's the one with the apostrophe, but
>> even then, I'd look outside Mailman first.)
>
>Again, this was just an observation.  Something, somewhere is going wrong,
>and this is a _set_ of symptoms on such emails.


So this only occurs on the problem mails? wierd!



>> Are there or were there ever Topics defined for the list? (I really
>> want to know the recipient count from the 'smtp' log.)
>
>"Topics"?  I'm new to Mailman (but with several years email experience).
>Guide me!


Don't worry about Topics. This would only be relevant if the recipient
count in the 'smtp' log were 59 in the problem cases.



>Shall I zip up the logs and email them to you off-list?  (I've had a good
>look through them, but you may still spot something I've missed.)


Not yet.


>Are there any debug/log/trace things/flags/switches that I could enable?


There are no extra debugging switches to get more log output.

You could do the following:

Edit the file Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py

The last line in the file is:

    failures.update(refused)

Following this, add

    syslog('smtp', 'Msgid: %s, Chunk sent to: %s', msgid, recips)

Indent this the same amount (4 spaces) as the line above. This will log
the list of recipients for each (possibly only one depending on other
settings) SMTP transaction. After editing the file, you need to do
'bin/mailmanctl restart' to load the changed module.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From clovis at agr.unicamp.br  Mon Jun  5 18:44:46 2006
From: clovis at agr.unicamp.br (Clovis Tristao)
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 13:44:46 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman doubt
Message-ID: <44845F7E.5090604@agr.unicamp.br>

Hi,
I made a cleanness in my server of some accounts and the Mailman server 
is not answering adequately.
I made the unsubscribe in the lists of the removed users, but I am 
receiving the following message in /var/log/maillog from the Postfix

Jun  5 13:41:09 <hostname> postfix/smtpd[13306]: 46679C3D572: reject: 
RCPT from localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]: 550 <UserMail at domain>: 
Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table; 
from=<listname-l-bounces at domain> to=<UserMail at domain> proto=ESMTP 
helo=<hostname.domain>

What it can be happening?
Already it restarts mailman 2.1.8 two times.

Cheers,

Cl?vis

-- 
Clovis Tristao - UNICAMP/Faculdade de Engenharia Agricola
Administrador de Redes - Secao de Informatica (SINFO)
E-mail: clovis at agr.unicamp.br http://www.agr.unicamp.br
Fone(0xx19) 37881031-37881038 ou FAX(55xx19) 37881005/37881010



From dudu.meyer at gmail.com  Mon Jun  5 19:16:27 2006
From: dudu.meyer at gmail.com (Eduardo Meyer)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 14:16:27 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Domain / Postfix
Message-ID: <d3ea75b30606051016j2176ecccv50ae4ed388a85089@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I am willing to configure Virtual Domains in Postfix, and followed
documentation available at:

http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/postfix-virtual.html

Other than correctly configuring Postfix and mm_cfg.py with
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = pointing all my virtual domains, I
also added

add_virtualhost('www.XX.domain', 'XX.domain')

To mm_cfg.py after I tried without it. And in both cases (with and
without) I didn't work.

When I try to add a list which already exists in the main domain,
mailman states this list already exists. I am trying to create it via
Web...

Created the first list on:

http://www.domain.com.br/mailman/create

And want to create the second on

http://www.XX.domain.com.br/mailman/create

Mailman Web interface does not distinguishes that it is a different
domain (a subdomain in fact).

What am I missing? Is there a better documentation than the above
mentioned to try before asking for help?

Thank you a lot.


From t.d.lee at durham.ac.uk  Mon Jun  5 19:18:17 2006
From: t.d.lee at durham.ac.uk (David Lee)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 18:18:17 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] partial (silent) non-delivery
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606050934110187224deac6@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200606050934110187224deac6@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0606051758480.29049@arachne.dur.ac.uk>

On Mon, 5 Jun 2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Is there anything in Mailman's error log? Anything in the 'shunt' queue
> (qfiles/shunt directory)?

Empty for two weeks (and that itself was installation set-up issue