From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  1 01:34:33 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 16:34:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] migrating mailman to a new box
In-Reply-To: <447DEB2E.7020906@ncmir.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200605311634330109b5ef048e@msapiro>

Jana Nguyen wrote:

>Below are the steps, not sure if this is a 
>good way of migrating mailman from current to new box?
>
>1) Move the entire contents of the archives/
>   lists/ and directories
>
>2) fix the host_name and web_page_url attributes of the list with 
>"withlist",
>"fix_url", and rebuild the archives with 'bin/arch --wipe'
>
>Not sure if we have to rebuild the archives if I'm already running 
>fix_url with withlist?


Yes. The steps are good, and you do want to rebuild the archives. Most
links in the archives are relative and not a problem, but there are
absolute links to scrubbed attachments and listinfo pages, and these
will have to be recreated to have the correct host. 'bin/arch --wipe'
will do this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  1 01:53:44 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 16:53:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message body is blank for some users
In-Reply-To: <p06200702c0a3b35d3b94@[192.168.1.65]>
Message-ID: <PC1740200605311653440843b5ef0777@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:
>
>	This user is probably sending out an HTML-formatted message (or 
>in some other MIME format), and you have Mailman configured to strip 
>HTML (or whatever the other MIME format is).
>
>	Check your settings.  Have the user send you a message directly, 
>then use whatever techniques your MUA allows you to have to see all 
>the messy headers and MIME body structure.  If you don't have an MUA 
>that lets you see all that, you'll need to get an MUA that will.


Brad is correct, particularly about diagnosis. I just want to add a
couple of ideas.

If Mailman's content filtering removes ALL the MIME parts so none
remain, the post will be handled according to filter_action; it won't
go to the list. If content filtering is removing the body, there must
be some other part which may be blank but is not removed for the
result to go to the list.

Another possibility to consider is that the message may be an HTML or
other rich text format message which is reaching the list and which
has (for example) white text on a white background. If this is the
case, the "blank" message body may be sizable to the point that it has
a scroll bar, but still "blank". You may be able to select the "blank"
text, copy it and paste it into a plain text editor and see it that
way.

This latter situation comes about when someone has their own MUA set
for "rich text" with a default background color of say black and an
explicit font color of white. Then, when the white on black message is
viewed by someone whose MUA backgrownd color is white, she sees the
white on white "blank" message.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pmb1 at york.ac.uk  Thu Jun  1 11:59:57 2006
From: pmb1 at york.ac.uk (Mike Brudenell)
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 10:59:57 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella List + Monthly Password Reminders = List
	Security Issue?
Message-ID: <FD27957F9C5F842B358C72CE@pippin.york.ac.uk>

Greetings -

Can someone help me with this please?

We are using Mailman 2.1.8 under Sun Solaris 10 (SPARC).

We have a small number of umbrella lists, each with (only) other lists 
subscribed as their members.  A fictional example:

The umbrella list

    all-depts at lists.york.ac.uk

has members

    astronomy-dept at lists.york.ac.uk
    dentistry-dept at lists.york.ac.uk
    geography-dept at lists.york.ac.uk

The umbrella list is set up with:

    Send password reminders to, eg, "-owner" address instead of directly to
    user. (Details for umbrella_list)
                                                            YES

    Suffix for use when this list is an umbrella for other lists, according
    to setting of previous "umbrella_list" setting.  (Details for
    umbrella_member_suffix)
                                                            -owner

Posting through the umbrella and member lists is working fine.

However I've just found that the monthly password reminders for the 
umbrella lists have been sent out to the subscribed member-list addresses. 
I was instead expecting them to go to these list names suffixed "-owner" 
and hence to the member-lists' owners only.

This means that every person belonging to, say, astronomy-dept now knows 
the membership password used to subscribe it to the all-depts umbrella list!
:-(

The monthly reminders are sent out using the Mailman script 
cron/mailpasswds and executed from cron.

I'm not a Python programmer (yet) but can manage to read the stuff and, as 
far as I can see, there is NOTHING in cron/mailpasswds to spot umbrella 
lists and send their monthly reminder to

    memberlist-owner at lists.york.ac.uk

instead of the subscribed address

    memberlist at lists.york.ac.uk

All the documentation I've read and help pages I've managed to locate give 
no clue of this behaviour.  Instead they strongly imply that by setting the 
umbrella_list setting to YES that "password reminders" are sent to the 
list's owners by adding the specified suffix (typically "-owner") to each 
member's address.

I'm now wondering if this is actually referring only to the "Please remind 
me of my password" link, not the monthly reminder.  If so then a huge 
warning needs adding to the FAQ and documentation about umbrella lists 
advising admins NOT to turn on the monthly reminders for umbrella lists in 
order to avoid this big security issue.

Or am I missing something/have something misconfigured?

Cheers,
Mike Brudenell

-- 
The Computing Service, University of York, Heslington, York Yo10 5DD, UK
Tel:+44-1904-433811  FAX:+44-1904-433740

* Unsolicited commercial e-mail is NOT welcome at this e-mail address. *


From timo.schoeler at riscworks.net  Thu Jun  1 14:06:32 2006
From: timo.schoeler at riscworks.net (Timo Schoeler)
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 14:06:32 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with GID and postfix
Message-ID: <447ED848.9050508@riscworks.net>

hi list,

after hours of searching on the net (finding that the problem is not 
unknown, but not yielding a solution for me) and several rebuilds of 
mailman (mailman-2.1.8rc1, from NetBSD pkgsrc) i'm stuck.

as advised, i built mailman with --with-mail-gid=nobody (for postfix), 
but this leads me to following problem when trying to post to a newly 
created (the first, one and only on the machine) list:

Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail
wrapper script to be executed as group "nobody", but
the system's mail server executed the mail script as
group "mailman".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the
script as group "nobody", or re-run configure,
providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=mailman'.

i figure that i need to tell postfix to run

/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman at riscworks.net

as nobody. can i force postfix to do this?

any hints greatly appreciated - thanks in advance,

-- 
Timo Schoeler | http://riscworks.net/~tis | timo.schoeler at riscworks.net
RISCworks -- Perfection is a powerful message
ISP | POWER & PowerPC afficinados | Networking, Security, BSD services
GPG Key fingerprint = C9CA 7A13 4250 44EF CC58  938F AE29 5465 6E09 3093

There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary
and those who don't.


From anne.ramey at ncmail.net  Thu Jun  1 15:02:15 2006
From: anne.ramey at ncmail.net (Anne Ramey)
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 09:02:15 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] pruning archives
Message-ID: <447EE557.2050907@ncmail.net>

Is this still the easiest way to prune archives?  Seems rather labor intensive...
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.003.htp <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.003.htp>

-- 
Anne Ramey




From carl at finknetwork.com  Thu Jun  1 16:05:39 2006
From: carl at finknetwork.com (Carl Fink)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 10:05:39 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't run mm_cfg.py
Message-ID: <20060601140539.GC16791@nitpicking.com>

Hi.

I'm unable to configure Mailman, because when I edit and run mm_cfg.py
("python ./mm_cfg.py") I get this error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./mm_cfg.py", line 44, in ?
    from Defaults import *
ImportError: No module named Defaults


Well, Defaults.py, Defaults.pyo and Defaults.pyc are sitting right there in
the current directory.  I'm not a Python expert, perhaps that isn't what's
being looked for?

I'm running 2.1.5 under Debian Sarge, using Python 2.3.5.  Any other
information that can help figure this out, please ask.

I have resubscribed to the mailing list, so there's no need to copy me
personally on any answers.  (I think the old custom of summarizing for
mailing lists is finally dead, unfortunately.)  I did search the archive and
found no mention of this problem.

And I'll be very grateful for any assistance.
-- 
Carl Fink                                   carl at finknetwork.com
   "Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your
   government when it deserves it."
                      - Mark Twain


From chris at westnet.com  Thu Jun  1 16:12:27 2006
From: chris at westnet.com (Christopher X. Candreva)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 10:12:27 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't run mm_cfg.py
In-Reply-To: <20060601140539.GC16791@nitpicking.com>
References: <20060601140539.GC16791@nitpicking.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0606011011580.5257@westnet.com>

On Thu, 1 Jun 2006, Carl Fink wrote:

> I'm unable to configure Mailman, because when I edit and run mm_cfg.py

You don't run mm_cfg.py  You just edit it.

It contains values that are then read by the other programs when they run.

==========================================================
Chris Candreva  -- chris at westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  1 16:35:21 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 07:35:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella List + Monthly Password Reminders =
	ListSecurity Issue?
In-Reply-To: <FD27957F9C5F842B358C72CE@pippin.york.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606010735210640a17330b5@msapiro>

Mike Brudenell wrote:
>
>All the documentation I've read and help pages I've managed to locate give 
>no clue of this behaviour.  Instead they strongly imply that by setting the 
>umbrella_list setting to YES that "password reminders" are sent to the 
>list's owners by adding the specified suffix (typically "-owner") to each 
>member's address.
>
>I'm now wondering if this is actually referring only to the "Please remind 
>me of my password" link, not the monthly reminder.  If so then a huge 
>warning needs adding to the FAQ and documentation about umbrella lists 
>advising admins NOT to turn on the monthly reminders for umbrella lists in 
>order to avoid this big security issue.
>
>Or am I missing something/have something misconfigured?


I think you are correct. I think cron/mailpasswds should be fixed. I
don't know how this has been ignored for so long.


In the mean time, I think the following (Warning - totally untested and
watch out for wrapped lines) patch will fix it.

--- mailpasswds 2006-04-15 17:38:24.000000000 -0700
+++ mailpasswdsx        2006-06-01 07:30:07.843750000 -0700
@@ -162,6 +162,8 @@
                 optionsurl = mlist.GetOptionsURL(member)
                 lang = mlist.getMemberLanguage(member)
                 info = (listaddr, password, optionsurl, lang)
+                if mlist.umbrella_list:
+                    member = mlist.GetMemberAdminEmail(member).lower()
                 userinfo.setdefault(member, []).append(info)
         # Now that we've collected user information for this host,
send each
         # user the password reminder.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  1 16:42:08 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 07:42:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with GID and postfix
In-Reply-To: <447ED848.9050508@riscworks.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606010742080937a17331d1@msapiro>

Timo Schoeler wrote:
>
>i figure that i need to tell postfix to run
>
>/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman at riscworks.net
>
>as nobody. can i force postfix to do this?


You have two choices. Postfix runs the pipe as the user:group that owns
the alias file that the pipe came from. You could change the group of
data/aliases* to nobody, but that with cause other problems with
automatic alias generation for Postfix (assuming you have set MTA =
'Postfix')

The better choice is to rerun configure with --with-mail-gid=mailman
and reinstall.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dewey at ku.edu  Thu Jun  1 16:51:07 2006
From: dewey at ku.edu (Dewhirst, Rob)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 09:51:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password reminders,
	subscribers with listname@xyz.com?
Message-ID: <C9F4FE51E4DB3B4EBCA6B115331EB723044A2EB2@MAILBOXTWO.home.ku.edu>

I have a mailing list set up to send monthly password reminders.

Today, two of these reminder messages ended up in the Administrative
requests for the list as being posted to the list from non-members.

Coincidentally, the subscriber's email addresses are
nameofproblematiclist at xyz.com.  Their email address usernames are the
same as the name of the problematic list sending out the password
reminders, but their complete email address is in another domain.  

I am running Mailman 2.1.8 on RHEL4 with Exim.

Any ideas? I suppose I could post headers if this is not clear.


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  1 16:56:54 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 07:56:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't run mm_cfg.py
In-Reply-To: <20060601140539.GC16791@nitpicking.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606010756540265a1732f5f@msapiro>

Carl Fink wrote:
>
>I'm unable to configure Mailman, because when I edit and run mm_cfg.py
>("python ./mm_cfg.py") I get this error:
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "./mm_cfg.py", line 44, in ?
>    from Defaults import *
>ImportError: No module named Defaults


As Christopher said in another reply, you don't run mm_cfg.py, you just
edit it. Mailman modules import it.

However, you may wish to run it just to "error check" it, and the above
should work, i.e.

cd $prefix/Mailman
python ./mm_cfg.py

should be able to import from Defaults, so I don't know what's
happening unless you have a base mm_cfg.py from some packager that
contains things I don't know about.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Thu Jun  1 17:30:34 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 08:30:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't run mm_cfg.py
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060601083024.0610c1c0@crimson-dragon.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>Carl Fink wrote:
> >
> >I'm unable to configure Mailman, because when I edit and run mm_cfg.py
> >("python ./mm_cfg.py") I get this error:
> >
> >Traceback (most recent call last):
> >  File "./mm_cfg.py", line 44, in ?
> >    from Defaults import *
> >ImportError: No module named Defaults
>
>
>As Christopher said in another reply, you don't run mm_cfg.py, you just
>edit it. Mailman modules import it.
>
>However, you may wish to run it just to "error check" it, and the above
>should work, i.e.
>
>cd $prefix/Mailman
>python ./mm_cfg.py
>
>should be able to import from Defaults, so I don't know what's
>happening unless you have a base mm_cfg.py from some packager that
>contains things I don't know about.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

Yeah, that all seems a bit strange but if he can stop and 
successfully restart his qrunners, then the edits are syntactically 
correct and mailman can at least understand what is there. Whether 
those edits are then lexically and logically correct is another story 
altogether.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From pmb1 at york.ac.uk  Thu Jun  1 17:34:45 2006
From: pmb1 at york.ac.uk (Mike Brudenell)
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 16:34:45 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] pruning archives
In-Reply-To: <447EE557.2050907@ncmail.net>
References: <447EE557.2050907@ncmail.net>
Message-ID: <024C4DCFAEDF6B48332D4EB7@pippin.york.ac.uk>

Greetings -

--On 1 June 2006 09:02:15 -0400 Anne Ramey <anne.ramey at ncmail.net> wrote:

> Is this still the easiest way to prune archives?  Seems rather labor
> intensive...
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.003.htp
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.003.htp>

There are probably other utilities to do this task but the one that springs 
to my mind is "mailutil" from the University of Washington (UW) IMAP 
Utilities distribution.

mailutil was originally designed to create mail folders in particular 
storage formats, either locally or on a remote IMAP server.

However feeping creaturism added other facilities such as copying or moving 
messages between any combination of local and/or remote folders.

Amongst these is the "prune" option which lets you prune a mail folder 
based on a selection string.  The selection string itself is given in the 
format used by IMAP2's SEARCH command (RFC 117).  [I actually suspect it 
now supports IMAP4rev1's SEARCH command syntax (RFC 2060, section 6.4.4) 
... if this is indeed different.]

The example given in mailutil's man page is:

    mailutil prune INBOX "before 1-jan-2004"

Because mailutil is built using the UW C-Client library it understands a 
great many different mail folder storage formats, and can certainly be used 
on traditional UNIX/Berkeley/mbox formatted folders.

You can see the man page for mailutil (and the other IMAP utilities) at

    <http://www.washington.edu/pine/man/#mailutil>

Source code, and pre-built binaries for a number of platforms, for 
C-Client, Pine, the IMAP server and IMAP utilities can be found at:

    <http://www.washington.edu/pine/getpine/>

mailutil is in its imap/src/mail/utils directory.

Alternatively you can just get the IMAP server + C-Client source code at:

    <ftp://ftp.cac.washington.edu:21//imap/imap.tar.Z>

If I'm right in thinking this deletes messages from mail folders then you 
might find it a very useful tool: its selection criteria are very flexible, 
enabling you to select messages by date, sender, recipient, size, 
read/unread status, etc

CAUTION:
    I have used mailutil to create mail folders and copy messages around,
    but haven't yet tried its "prune" option.  However I'm expecting it
    will work.

    If someone tries it perhaps they could report back to the list?

Cheers,
Mike B-)

-- 
The Computing Service, University of York, Heslington, York Yo10 5DD, UK
Tel:+44-1904-433811  FAX:+44-1904-433740

* Unsolicited commercial e-mail is NOT welcome at this e-mail address. *


From jwblist3 at olympus.net  Thu Jun  1 17:46:24 2006
From: jwblist3 at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 08:46:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password reminders,
 subscribers with listname@xyz.com?
In-Reply-To: <C9F4FE51E4DB3B4EBCA6B115331EB723044A2EB2@MAILBOXTWO.home.ku.edu>
Message-ID: <C0A459E0.CD56%jwblist3@olympus.net>

On 6/1/06 7:51 AM, "Dewhirst, Rob" <dewey at ku.edu> wrote:

> I have a mailing list set up to send monthly password reminders.
> 
> Today, two of these reminder messages ended up in the Administrative
> requests for the list as being posted to the list from non-members.
> 
> Coincidentally, the subscriber's email addresses are
> nameofproblematiclist at xyz.com.  Their email address usernames are the
> same as the name of the problematic list sending out the password
> reminders, but their complete email address is in another domain.
> 
> I am running Mailman 2.1.8 on RHEL4 with Exim.
> 
> Any ideas? I suppose I could post headers if this is not clear.

Exim is seeing just the local part of the addresses when it processes
aliases.

I don't know how RedHat is packaging Mailman--assuming that's how you
installed Mailman.

I see that our installation would have the same problem, now that I look at
our Exim configuration on the Mailman machine:

mailman_router:
  driver = accept
  require_files = MAILMAN_HOME/lists/$local_part/config.pck
  local_part_suffix_optional
  local_part_suffix = -bounces : -bounces+* : \
                      -confirm+* : -join : -leave : \
                      -owner : -request : -admin
  transport = mailman_transport

In other words, if the local part of an address matches a list name, exim
will treat the address as something to send to the list.

Now that you've pointed out the problem, it would appear that the school
solution for Exim configuration for lists is flawed.  (And has worked at
many sites for many years.)

I think there should probably be something like
  domains = +mailman_domains
as a condition in the router.

Where that list would be defined in the early part of the configuration as
something like
  domainlist mailman_domains = mailman.example.com : lists.example.com
as needed (the above would be right for us were we example.com).  An Exim
macro could also be used, as was done with MAILMAN_HOME in the above.

The above is top-of-the-head, and untested.

I wonder whether the published solution ought to be changed.  Note that if
one is doing virtual domains--in the limited way Mailman does it now, it
would be better to fill the mailman_domains list by reading a file, which
could be managed by whatever software establishes lists in domains.

When Mailman begins allowing "real" virtual hosting, the Exim solution will
need to be changed, perhaps using a series of routers imported from a file
managed by the management software (Exim does handle import statements in
its configuration file--a feature which the stock Debian configuration for
Exim exercises heavily).




From carl at finknetwork.com  Thu Jun  1 18:14:30 2006
From: carl at finknetwork.com (Carl Fink)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 12:14:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't run mm_cfg.py
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060601082820.060f13e8@crimson-dragon.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060601082820.060f13e8@crimson-dragon.com>
Message-ID: <20060601161430.GA14328@nitpicking.com>

On Thu, Jun 01, 2006 at 08:30:34AM -0700, Dragon wrote:

> Yeah, that all seems a bit strange but if he can stop and 
> successfully restart his qrunners, then the edits are syntactically 
> correct and mailman can at least understand what is there. Whether 
> those edits are then lexically and logically correct is another story 
> altogether.

I actually did restart Mailman, with no errors, and so far it seems to have
taken my changes.  If mm_cfg is just there to be read from, why is it a
script instead of a text file /etc/mailman?
-- 
Carl Fink                                   carl at finknetwork.com
   "Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your
   government when it deserves it."
                      - Mark Twain


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Jun  1 18:18:04 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 11:18:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't run mm_cfg.py
In-Reply-To: <20060601161430.GA14328@nitpicking.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060601082820.060f13e8@crimson-dragon.com>
	<20060601161430.GA14328@nitpicking.com>
Message-ID: <p0620070ec0a4c35afb57@[192.168.1.65]>

At 12:14 PM -0400 2006-06-01, Carl Fink wrote:

>  I actually did restart Mailman, with no errors, and so far it seems to have
>  taken my changes.  If mm_cfg is just there to be read from, why is it a
>  script instead of a text file /etc/mailman?

	Because with a text /etc/mailman.cf configuration file, you then 
have to write a program to parse that content and to deal with all 
possible exceptions.

	When the configuration is done in the Python language in a Python 
script, you can let Python do all the parsing, and do the equivalent 
of "#include" in order to pull in all your configuration details.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From carl at finknetwork.com  Thu Jun  1 18:30:30 2006
From: carl at finknetwork.com (Carl Fink)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 12:30:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't run mm_cfg.py
In-Reply-To: <p0620070ec0a4c35afb57@[192.168.1.65]>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060601082820.060f13e8@crimson-dragon.com>
	<20060601161430.GA14328@nitpicking.com>
	<p0620070ec0a4c35afb57@[192.168.1.65]>
Message-ID: <20060601163030.GA9915@nitpicking.com>

On Thu, Jun 01, 2006 at 11:18:04AM -0500, Brad Knowles wrote:

> 	When the configuration is done in the Python language in a Python 
> script, you can let Python do all the parsing, and do the equivalent 
> of "#include" in order to pull in all your configuration details.

Fair enough.  Like I wrote, I'm no Python expert.

Thanks.
-- 
Carl Fink                                   carl at finknetwork.com
   "Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your
   government when it deserves it."
                      - Mark Twain


From jwblist3 at olympus.net  Thu Jun  1 19:19:37 2006
From: jwblist3 at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 10:19:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't run mm_cfg.py
In-Reply-To: <20060601163030.GA9915@nitpicking.com>
Message-ID: <C0A46FB9.CD83%jwblist3@olympus.net>

On 6/1/06 9:30 AM, "Carl Fink" <carl at finknetwork.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 01, 2006 at 11:18:04AM -0500, Brad Knowles wrote:
> 
>> When the configuration is done in the Python language in a Python
>> script, you can let Python do all the parsing, and do the equivalent
>> of "#include" in order to pull in all your configuration details.
> 
> Fair enough.  

A downside is that there is no "proper" place for Defaults.py and mm_cfg.py

They are configuration, so they go into /etc somewhere.  They are
executable, so they DON'T go into /etc.  Not a problem with the stock
Mailman layout, but it does cause problems for one trying to match the file
system standard (such as the Red Hat packaging of Mailman, which shotguns
Mailman into several different places--and is well done).

  --John




From jimpop at yahoo.com  Thu Jun  1 19:41:39 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 13:41:39 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't run mm_cfg.py
In-Reply-To: <20060601163030.GA9915@nitpicking.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060601082820.060f13e8@crimson-dragon.com>	<20060601161430.GA14328@nitpicking.com>	<p0620070ec0a4c35afb57@[192.168.1.65]>
	<20060601163030.GA9915@nitpicking.com>
Message-ID: <447F26D3.6020005@yahoo.com>

Carl Fink wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 01, 2006 at 11:18:04AM -0500, Brad Knowles wrote:
> 
>> 	When the configuration is done in the Python language in a Python 
>> script, you can let Python do all the parsing, and do the equivalent 
>> of "#include" in order to pull in all your configuration details.
> 
> Fair enough.  Like I wrote, I'm no Python expert.

I am no Python expert either, but i am a competent perl and C++ 
programmer.  After about 4 years of tweaking and changing Python code, 
I've learned to appreciate it's power, but also it's simplicity.  Python 
is a very well designed programming language, Mailman is just one of 
many great apps that prove this.

-Jim P.


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Thu Jun  1 19:47:14 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 13:47:14 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't run mm_cfg.py
In-Reply-To: <C0A46FB9.CD83%jwblist3@olympus.net>
References: <C0A46FB9.CD83%jwblist3@olympus.net>
Message-ID: <447F2822.10909@yahoo.com>

John W. Baxter wrote:
> On 6/1/06 9:30 AM, "Carl Fink" <carl at finknetwork.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Thu, Jun 01, 2006 at 11:18:04AM -0500, Brad Knowles wrote:
>>
>>> When the configuration is done in the Python language in a Python
>>> script, you can let Python do all the parsing, and do the equivalent
>>> of "#include" in order to pull in all your configuration details.
>> Fair enough.  
> 
> A downside is that there is no "proper" place for Defaults.py and mm_cfg.py
> 
> They are configuration, so they go into /etc somewhere.  They are
> executable, so they DON'T go into /etc.  Not a problem with the stock
> Mailman layout, but it does cause problems for one trying to match the file
> system standard (such as the Red Hat packaging of Mailman, which shotguns
> Mailman into several different places--and is well done).

I have custom Mailman installs (from source releases) on my systems. 
The way that I solve this problem, of desiring all configuration files 
to exist in /etc, is to hardlink /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py 
(and a few others) to a directory I created (/etc/mailman) on each 
system.  I do the same for MoinMoin (a Python wiki).  This way I can 
periodically backup etc and not have to worry about a large bloated 
backup of easily re-installed applications.

-Jim P.


From jesse at solidot.org  Thu Jun  1 20:43:09 2006
From: jesse at solidot.org (J. Lee)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 02:43:09 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin can't login
Message-ID: <41483dbd0606011143x16509822xc46fa3270de74088@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

I am new to mailman. When I entered password on admin page (
http://lists.mysite.org/mailman/admin/mailman) and clicked the login button,
it take no effect. Tha page just refresh.
I am running Mailman on debian with exim4.
Please help.

Thanks!

Jesse


From dandrews at visi.com  Thu Jun  1 20:43:14 2006
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 13:43:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some Users Unable to Post
Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060601134122.0291cd98@visi.com>

Hi:

I run a Sun Cobalt RAQ 550 with Mailman, and about 90 lists.  I have 
a few users, on various lists who are subscribed to a given list, who 
can reply to an existing message, but who can't post an original 
message.  they are then rejected as a non-member.  Any ideas?

David Andrews


David Andrews and white cane Harry.




From dewey at ku.edu  Thu Jun  1 21:19:16 2006
From: dewey at ku.edu (Dewhirst, Rob)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 14:19:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password reminders,
	subscribers with listname@xyz.com?
Message-ID: <C9F4FE51E4DB3B4EBCA6B115331EB723044A2F1B@MAILBOXTWO.home.ku.edu>

> Exim is seeing just the local part of the addresses when it 
> processes aliases.

> I don't know how RedHat is packaging Mailman--assuming that's 
> how you installed Mailman.

I installed exim from rpm and built mailman from source.

> I think there should probably be something like
>   domains = +mailman_domains
> as a condition in the router.

I think that's the culprit -- 

These two docs differ on how to setup the Exim router

<http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html>

<http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node21.html>

And they differ by the domains = definition you quote above.  The Exim
docs have it, the mailman docs don't.




From schaefer at alphanet.ch  Thu Jun  1 21:09:41 2006
From: schaefer at alphanet.ch (Marc SCHAEFER)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 21:09:41 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] VERP active where it shouldn't
Message-ID: <20060601190941.GA10488@alphanet.ch>

Hi,

I am running a Mailman from Debian stable (2.1.5-8sarge2), and I experimented
the following issue:

   - even if disabled in Defaults.py and not enabled in mm_cfg.py,
     VERP seems to be activated from time to time. I am guessing it is
     activated only when something already bounced on a user (?).
     Most mail sent out don't have the VERP (user=host+id) stuff at all
     as Sender:, and when they have something it's a cookie:

   gull-annonces-bounces+4ae5d0b7d6547f114afac76d551c9dfbbc3f212e at lists.alphanet.ch

My questions:

   - is there a `mailman_display_config' command which would return the
     *actually used* mailman configuration (maybe I am looking at the
     wrong config file or Defaults.py file) ?

   - how to disable VERP *completely * ?

In my case, VERP cannot work, because + is *not* used for multi-addresses
recipients. 

Excerpt from config:
   grep VERP mm_cfg.py /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py

   VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 0
   VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = No
   VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = No
   VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = No

Thank you for any ideas!

(otherwise thank you for Mailman, which I use since a few years on
lists.alphanet.ch)



From cpz at tuunq.com  Thu Jun  1 22:10:06 2006
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 13:10:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't run mm_cfg.py
In-Reply-To: <447F26D3.6020005@yahoo.com> from Jim Popovitch at "Jun 1, 2006
	01:41:39 pm"
Message-ID: <20060601201007.488637AF@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Jim Popovitch wrote:

> I am no Python expert either, but i am a competent perl and C++ 
> programmer.  After about 4 years of tweaking and changing Python code, 
> I've learned to appreciate it's power, but also it's simplicity.  Python 
> is a very well designed programming language, Mailman is just one of 
> many great apps that prove this.

In general, I agree, but I question a language that relies on indent level 
for blocking and don't let you include blank lines for readability. I guess 
it's ok when you get used to it.  But then again, I mostly work in tcl at 
this point...   :-)

Of course, YMMV

z!


From secretary at healheadingley.org.uk  Thu Jun  1 23:02:23 2006
From: secretary at healheadingley.org.uk (Heal Secretary)
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 22:02:23 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message body is blank for some users
In-Reply-To: <p06200702c0a3b35d3b94@[192.168.1.65]>
References: <7.0.0.16.0.20060531193536.01df19e8@healheadingley.org.uk>
	<p06200702c0a3b35d3b94@[192.168.1.65]>
Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.0.20060601215630.01b0cf50@healheadingley.org.uk>

Hi Brad

Thank you for this.

The user's messy headings reveal "Content-Type: text/html; 
format=flowed". Is this all I need to know?

I am using Eudora which shows plenty of messy headings. I don't know 
if it is a MUA or not. Please could you explain this term. Also, the 
messy headings don't have any mention of MIME. I'm sorry to say I 
don't even know what this term means. Please could you enlighten me?

In the meantime I have changed my settings to "Should Mailman convert 
text/html parts to plain text? = No". I'll ask the user to post and 
see what happens.

Many thanks for your patience
Nigel

At 21:58 31/5/06, Brad Knowles wrote:

>         This user is probably sending out an HTML-formatted message 
> (or in some other MIME format), and you have Mailman configured to 
> strip HTML (or whatever the other MIME format is).
>
>         Check your settings.  Have the user send you a message 
> directly, then use whatever techniques your MUA allows you to have 
> to see all the messy headers and MIME body structure.  If you don't 
> have an MUA that lets you see all that, you'll need to get an MUA that will.
>

Secretary of Heal
Campaigning for a Sustainable Balanced Community
www.healheadingley.org.uk  



From jwblist3 at olympus.net  Fri Jun  2 01:10:08 2006
From: jwblist3 at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2006 16:10:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't run mm_cfg.py
In-Reply-To: <20060601201007.488637AF@mail.tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <C0A4C1E0.CD9D%jwblist3@olympus.net>

On 6/1/06 1:10 PM, "Carl Zwanzig" <cpz at tuunq.com> wrote:

> In general, I agree, but I question a language that relies on indent level
> for blocking and don't let you include blank lines for readability. I guess
> it's ok when you get used to it.  But then again, I mostly work in tcl at
> this point...   :-)
> 
> Of course, YMMV

And if braces for structure move into Python as a required thing (unlikely,
as long as the BDFL is around, and he's much younger than I am), I stop with
the version upgrades.

The clearly visible structure was one of the first things that attracted me.

As you say, YMMV.

  --John




From laff at massiveblack.com  Fri Jun  2 01:32:30 2006
From: laff at massiveblack.com (The Lafferty)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 16:32:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Taking word bounces out of received emails......
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606010742080937a17331d1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060601233239.810AC1E400B@bag.python.org>

...IS THERE AN EASY WAY TO DO THIS? 

When clients see the word bounces in the email it makes them nervous. 

Like:


HR-bounces at lalala.com

Help please.

We are running windows, is there any easy way to take this word out by using
the web interface?

thanks




From laff at massiveblack.com  Fri Jun  2 03:40:36 2006
From: laff at massiveblack.com (The Lafferty)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 18:40:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Why can't anyone post to mailing Lists
Message-ID: <20060602014046.833E71E4013@bag.python.org>

I want to use our mailing list more like a mail alias, I need it to be open
so anyone can mail to it without seeking approval from the moderator....does
anyone know how set this up?
 
thanks


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Jun  2 04:37:25 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 21:37:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message body is blank for some users
In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.0.20060601215630.01b0cf50@healheadingley.org.uk>
References: <7.0.0.16.0.20060531193536.01df19e8@healheadingley.org.uk>
	<p06200702c0a3b35d3b94@[192.168.1.65]>
	<7.0.0.16.0.20060601215630.01b0cf50@healheadingley.org.uk>
Message-ID: <p0620070fc0a5542cecb9@[192.168.1.65]>

At 10:02 PM +0100 2006-06-01, Heal Secretary wrote:

>  The user's messy headings reveal "Content-Type: text/html;
>  format=flowed". Is this all I need to know?

	That's unlikely to be all that you need to know.

>  I am using Eudora which shows plenty of messy headings. I don't know
>  if it is a MUA or not.

	Eudora is an MUA (Mail User Agent), and I happen to use the same 
program.  However, you need to look at more than just the headers -- 
you also need to look at the raw message body, which is something 
that Eudora does not do (so far as I know).

	Try saving a copy of the message to a file, then pull up that 
file in a text editor.

>                          Please could you explain this term. Also, the
>  messy headings don't have any mention of MIME. I'm sorry to say I
>  don't even know what this term means. Please could you enlighten me?

	MIME is how Internet e-mail handles binary content.  However, 
although there are some official standards for MIME, very few 
programs actually implement all of those standards the same way.

	What you need to be able to see is the internal MIME structure of 
the message.

>  In the meantime I have changed my settings to "Should Mailman convert
>  text/html parts to plain text? = No". I'll ask the user to post and
>  see what happens.

	That may not help.  Give it a try, but don't be surprised if it 
doesn't work.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Jun  2 04:39:35 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 21:39:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Taking word bounces out of received emails......
In-Reply-To: <20060601233239.810AC1E400B@bag.python.org>
References: <20060601233239.810AC1E400B@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <p06200710c0a5554f30d9@[192.168.1.65]>

At 4:32 PM -0700 2006-06-01, The Lafferty wrote:

>  We are running windows, is there any easy way to take this word out by using
>  the web interface?

	See <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  2 05:28:08 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 20:28:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Why can't anyone post to mailing Lists
In-Reply-To: <20060602014046.833E71E4013@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060120280805629b2171fa@msapiro>

The Lafferty wrote:

>I want to use our mailing list more like a mail alias, I need it to be open
>so anyone can mail to it without seeking approval from the moderator....does
>anyone know how set this up?

In the admin interface Privacy options...->Sender filters set
generic_nonmember_action to accept.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  2 05:40:11 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 20:40:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't run mm_cfg.py
In-Reply-To: <20060601201007.488637AF@mail.tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060120401109379b217374@msapiro>

Carl Zwanzig wrote:
>
>In general, I agree, but I question a language that relies on indent level 
>for blocking and don't let you include blank lines for readability. I guess 
>it's ok when you get used to it.


The forced indentation is something there will probably never be even
close to universal agreement on - some love it, some hate it, very few
are neutral.

But why do you think you can't include blank lines?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  2 05:52:35 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 20:52:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin can't login
In-Reply-To: <41483dbd0606011143x16509822xc46fa3270de74088@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060120523502039b2170ae@msapiro>

J. Lee wrote:
>
>I am new to mailman. When I entered password on admin page (
>http://lists.mysite.org/mailman/admin/mailman) and clicked the login button,
>it take no effect. Tha page just refresh.
>I am running Mailman on debian with exim4.


If the refreshed page said "Authorization failed." in red at the top,
it is likely an incorrect password. If it truly just refreshed, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.045.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jesse at solidot.org  Fri Jun  2 06:00:23 2006
From: jesse at solidot.org (J. Lee)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 12:00:23 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin can't login
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006060120523502039b2170ae@msapiro>
References: <41483dbd0606011143x16509822xc46fa3270de74088@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006060120523502039b2170ae@msapiro>
Message-ID: <41483dbd0606012100n7336f1fbjd7059548589a152d@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I just found the problem, which was caused by Slash(www.slashcode.com, my
main site running it). When stopped Slash, my browser can receive cookies
from Mailman, everything works well. When slash start, mailman's cookie
doesn't work, I can't login to admin page.

Thanks for your reply.
Sorry for my English.

Jesse

On 6/2/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> J. Lee wrote:
> >
> >I am new to mailman. When I entered password on admin page (
> >http://lists.mysite.org/mailman/admin/mailman) and clicked the login
> button,
> >it take no effect. Tha page just refresh.
> >I am running Mailman on debian with exim4.
>
>
> If the refreshed page said "Authorization failed." in red at the top,
> it is likely an incorrect password. If it truly just refreshed, see
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.045.htp>.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jesse.solidot%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  2 06:06:41 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 21:06:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some Users Unable to Post
In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20060601134122.0291cd98@visi.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060121064106569b217279@msapiro>

David Andrews wrote:
>
>I run a Sun Cobalt RAQ 550 with Mailman, and about 90 lists.  I have 
>a few users, on various lists who are subscribed to a given list, who 
>can reply to an existing message, but who can't post an original 
>message.  they are then rejected as a non-member.  Any ideas?


There must be some difference in headers or envelope sender between a
reply and a new message in these cases.

Have the user(s) both send a new message to you rather than the list
and reply to a list message but re-address the reply to you. Then look
at headers in these messages. Look at From:, Return-Path: (which
reflects the envelope sender), Reply-To: and Sender: which are the
addresses used to determine list membership (assuming you haven't set
SENDER_HEADERS in mm_cfg.py).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  2 06:56:06 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 21:56:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] VERP active where it shouldn't
In-Reply-To: <20060601190941.GA10488@alphanet.ch>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060121560605319b2171d9@msapiro>

schaefer at alphanet.ch wrote:
>
>I am running a Mailman from Debian stable (2.1.5-8sarge2), and I experimented
>the following issue:
>
>   - even if disabled in Defaults.py and not enabled in mm_cfg.py,
>     VERP seems to be activated from time to time. I am guessing it is
>     activated only when something already bounced on a user (?).
>     Most mail sent out don't have the VERP (user=host+id) stuff at all
>     as Sender:, and when they have something it's a cookie:
>
>   gull-annonces-bounces+4ae5d0b7d6547f114afac76d551c9dfbbc3f212e at lists.alphanet.ch



That's a VERP probe.


>My questions:
>
>   - is there a `mailman_display_config' command which would return the
>     *actually used* mailman configuration (maybe I am looking at the
>     wrong config file or Defaults.py file) ?


No.


>   - how to disable VERP *completely * ?
>
>In my case, VERP cannot work, because + is *not* used for multi-addresses
>recipients. 
>
>Excerpt from config:
>   grep VERP mm_cfg.py /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py


mm_cfg.py should be in the same directory as Defaults.py unless this is
a Debian thing.

>
>   VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 0
>   VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = No
>   VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = No
>   VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = No


You seem to have edited out quite a bit of the grep result :-)


You are running Mailman 2.1.5. VERP probes were introduced in 2.1.5 and
couldn't be turned off. This was recognized to be a mistake, so
beginning in 2.1.6 they are controlled by
VERP_PROBES which defaults to No.

In 2.1.5, you could effectively change the sender of the probe from

gull-annonces-bounces+4ae5d0b7d6547f114afac76d551c9dfbbc3f212e at lists.alphanet.ch

to

gull-annonces-bounces at lists.alphanet.ch

by changing VERP_PROBE_FORMAT, but this will break bounce processing
because in 2.1.5, disabling a bouncing user relies on receiving a
bounced probe with the token.

Your choices are:

Upgrade (maybe not easy/possible with a Debian package).

Complain to Debian.

Modify Mailman/Bouncer.py to either implement mm_cfg.VERP_PROBES or
just remove VERP probes all together. See
<http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/mailman/branches/Release_2_1-maint/mailman/Mailman/Bouncer.py?r1=7147&r2=7190>


Turn off bounce processing for the list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From schaefer at alphanet.ch  Fri Jun  2 08:51:14 2006
From: schaefer at alphanet.ch (Marc SCHAEFER)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 08:51:14 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] VERP active where it shouldn't
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006060121560605319b2171d9@msapiro>
References: <20060601190941.GA10488@alphanet.ch>
	<PC17402006060121560605319b2171d9@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060602065114.GA8915@alphanet.ch>

On Thu, Jun 01, 2006 at 09:56:06PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> >   gull-annonces-bounces+4ae5d0b7d6547f114afac76d551c9dfbbc3f212e at lists.alphanet.ch
> 
> That's a VERP probe.

ok.

> >   - is there a `mailman_display_config' command which would return the
> >     *actually used* mailman configuration (maybe I am looking at the
> >     wrong config file or Defaults.py file) ?
> 
> 
> No.

Could be handy :)

> mm_cfg.py should be in the same directory as Defaults.py unless this is
> a Debian thing.

schaefer at shakotay:~$ ls -la /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/{mm_cfg.py,Defaults.py}
-rw-r--r--  1 root list 54457 Mar 29 21:58 /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py
lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root    22 May  3 09:19 /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py -> /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py

they are, but the local admin configurable part is really stored in
/etc/mailman, as per standard policy. Modifying stuff in the system is
not really Debian's cup of tea, which has its reasons.

> You seem to have edited out quite a bit of the grep result :-)

yep.

> Your choices are:

I will simply configure the probes to use the `=' character, which is
the equivalent of `+' here.  As long as the probes are sent in this
hexadecimal format (and not in the user=host.ch format) it should work.

Am I right that the probes are always sent in the hexadecimal format,
and thus that the variables to set in mm_cfg.py are:

   VERP_PROBE_FORMAT = '%(bounces)s=%(token)s'
   VERP_PROBE_REGEXP = r'^(?P<bounces>[^+]+?)\=(?P<token>[^@]+)@.*$'

I shall assume that for everything else as probes, the bug doesn't exist
and no probes will be sent as long as the config is set to 0 or No.

If you confirm the above, I will report this as a Debian bug, so that
the maintainer knows about this and less people complain for this issue.

Thank you for your useful help, indeed!



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  2 16:45:48 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 07:45:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] VERP active where it shouldn't
In-Reply-To: <20060602065114.GA8915@alphanet.ch>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060207454807183ba30e7e@Notebook>

Marc SCHAEFER wrote:

>On Thu, Jun 01, 2006 at 09:56:06PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> >   - is there a `mailman_display_config' command which would return the
>> >     *actually used* mailman configuration (maybe I am looking at the
>> >     wrong config file or Defaults.py file) ?
>> 
>> 
>> No.
>
>Could be handy :)


I was thinking the same thing. Here is a very rough first cut, proof of
concept script. Watch out for wrapped lines. You may have to change
the #! python command. The script needs to be stored in the bin/
directory with the other command line scripts in order to find the
paths.py module it imports.

It will grow a --help option and at a minimum, an option to specify a
pattern and print only those names that match the pattern (although
with the primitive script below, you can always pipe it into grep).

cut----------------------------------------------------
#! /usr/bin/python
#
# Copyright (C) 2006 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc.
#
# This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
# modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
# as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2
# of the License, or (at your option) any later version.
#
# This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
# but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
# MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
# GNU General Public License for more details.
#
# You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
# along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
# Foundation, Inc., 51 Franklin Street, Fifth Floor, Boston, MA
02110-1301,
# USA.

"""A simple script to display the public mm_cfg variables
for checking a configuration.
"""

import paths

from Mailman import mm_cfg

names = mm_cfg.__dict__.keys()
names.sort()
for name in names:
    if not name.startswith('_'):
        print name, '=', mm_cfg.__dict__[name]
cut----------------------------------------------------



>I will simply configure the probes to use the `=' character, which is
>the equivalent of `+' here.  As long as the probes are sent in this
>hexadecimal format (and not in the user=host.ch format) it should work.
>
>Am I right that the probes are always sent in the hexadecimal format,
>and thus that the variables to set in mm_cfg.py are:
>
>   VERP_PROBE_FORMAT = '%(bounces)s=%(token)s'
>   VERP_PROBE_REGEXP = r'^(?P<bounces>[^+]+?)\=(?P<token>[^@]+)@.*$'
>
>I shall assume that for everything else as probes, the bug doesn't exist
>and no probes will be sent as long as the config is set to 0 or No.


The above is almost correct. In Mailman 2.1.5, you can turn off
everything but the VERP probes in mm_cfg.py. Then the above changes
will replace '+' with '=' except it should be

   VERP_PROBE_REGEXP = r'^(?P<bounces>[^=]+?)\=(?P<token>[^@]+)@.*$'

And yes, the probe token is always a hex confirmation string, not the
user=host address format.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jewel.brueggeman-makda at washburn.edu  Fri Jun  2 16:15:40 2006
From: jewel.brueggeman-makda at washburn.edu (Jewel)
Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 09:15:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digests -  How did they do this?
Message-ID: <4480480C.8040701@washburn.edu>

Below is an example of a digest from a list and I would like to be able 
to do the same style on my digests in my Mailman.  I like how it lists 
the topics and then lists each message accordingly, like Message 2 for 
example. I am running Mailman 2.1.7 and at this point have not done any 
customization at this point.  I didn't know how to search for something 
like this in the archives either.  Any advice?


Thanks,
Jewel Makda
______________________________________________________________________

 





From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  2 17:32:51 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 08:32:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digests -  How did they do this?
In-Reply-To: <4480480C.8040701@washburn.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060208325108128dcfb63f@Notebook>

Jewel wrote
>
>Below is an example of a digest from a list and I would like to be able 
>to do the same style on my digests in my Mailman.  I like how it lists 
>the topics and then lists each message accordingly, like Message 2 for 
>example. I am running Mailman 2.1.7 and at this point have not done any 
>customization at this point.  I didn't know how to search for something 
>like this in the archives either.  Any advice?


Whatever you attached to this mail was removed by content filtering I'm
not sure from your description what digest format this is, but Mailman
sends digests in one of two formats by user option.

The 'plain' digest is one long plain text message with digest boiler
plate, table of contents and the individual messages, each flattened
to plain text with attachments scrubbed.

The 'MIME' digest consists of multiple MIME parts with separate parts
for the boiler plate and TOC and each message in it's own
message/rfc822 part.

What each format actually looks like depends on your MUA.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Fri Jun  2 17:53:27 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 08:53:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message body is blank for some users
In-Reply-To: <p0620070fc0a5542cecb9@[192.168.1.65]>
References: <7.0.0.16.0.20060531193536.01df19e8@healheadingley.org.uk>
	<p06200702c0a3b35d3b94@[192.168.1.65]>
	<7.0.0.16.0.20060601215630.01b0cf50@healheadingley.org.uk>
	<p0620070fc0a5542cecb9@[192.168.1.65]>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060602084909.06170198@crimson-dragon.com>

Brad Knowles sent the message below at 19:37 6/1/2006:
>At 10:02 PM +0100 2006-06-01, Heal Secretary wrote:
>
> >  I am using Eudora which shows plenty of messy headings. I don't know
> >  if it is a MUA or not.
>
>         Eudora is an MUA (Mail User Agent), and I happen to use the same
>program.  However, you need to look at more than just the headers --
>you also need to look at the raw message body, which is something
>that Eudora does not do (so far as I know).
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

I use Eudora too, as far as I know, it doesn't allow you to do that. 
However, the .mbx files that Eudora uses are a slightly modified mbox 
format and can be viewed easily with a text editor.

The easiest way to do this is to create a new mailbox in Eudora, 
transfer the message to that mailbox and then open it in a text editor.



Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From kwolcott at cloudshield.com  Fri Jun  2 19:45:06 2006
From: kwolcott at cloudshield.com (Kenneth A. Wolcott)
Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 10:45:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Added email address to "posters" in list config,
 but user's email must be approved each time, why?
Message-ID: <44807922.3080404@cloudshield.com>

Hi;

  I added a user's email address to the "posters" variable in the 
specific list config file, but still the user's email must be approved 
each time.

  Why is this?  Do I need to shutdown and restart Mailman for the config 
changes to take effect?

  I then subscribed the user.  Still had to manually approve email 
messages.  I then unsubscribed the user.

  I looked at the FAQ and spent some time in the email archives and 
looked at the manual and even looked at python code -- still mystified.

  Perhaps I have missed an obvious section of the manual, or the FAQ or 
an email in the archive that discusses/resolves this situation.  If so, 
please point me to it.

  Is this a bug that is resolved in more recent versions of Mailman?

  The user is a virtual user.  The Mailman application has been 
successfully used at this site regarding a previous (and still existing) 
virtual user who was in the posters variable in the config file, but was 
not a subscriber.  I wanted to add a new virtual user.

  Mailman version 2.0.13 on Linux

Thanks,
Kenneth A. Wolcott
kwolcott at cloudshield.com


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  2 21:18:37 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 12:18:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Added email address to "posters" in list config,
	but user's email must be approved each time, why?
In-Reply-To: <44807922.3080404@cloudshield.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060212183703623ba30d0f@Notebook>

Kenneth A. Wolcott wrote:
>
>  I added a user's email address to the "posters" variable in the 
>specific list config file, but still the user's email must be approved 
>each time.


Did you add the address to 'posters' via the web admin interface or
some other method that actually updated the lists/<listname>/config.db
file?


>  Why is this?  Do I need to shutdown and restart Mailman for the config 
>changes to take effect?


You shouldn't need to do this for list settings as they are loaded from
the config.db each time the list is accessed.


>  I then subscribed the user.  Still had to manually approve email 
>messages.  I then unsubscribed the user.


This indicates the From: or Sender: header of the post as received from
the user has an address which is (perhaps subtly) different from the
address you are subscribing.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kwolcott at cloudshield.com  Fri Jun  2 21:59:16 2006
From: kwolcott at cloudshield.com (Kenneth A. Wolcott)
Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 12:59:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Added email address to "posters" in list config,
 but user's email must be approved each time, why?
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006060212183703623ba30d0f@Notebook>
References: <PC17402006060212183703623ba30d0f@Notebook>
Message-ID: <44809894.60607@cloudshield.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Kenneth A. Wolcott wrote:
>   
>>  I added a user's email address to the "posters" variable in the 
>> specific list config file, but still the user's email must be approved 
>> each time.
>>     
>
>
> Did you add the address to 'posters' via the web admin interface or
> some other method that actually updated the lists/<listname>/config.db
> file?
>   

  No.  I modified the config file directly.  I hadn't looked in the 
Private section from the web interface previously.  I recently started 
using the master password since no one could remember what the regular 
mailman admin password was.  Prior to using the master password, I 
didn't have access to the web interface and I was trying to do 
everything as root from the command line.  I just now added the email 
address via the web interface in the Private section.
>
>   
>>  Why is this?  Do I need to shutdown and restart Mailman for the config 
>> changes to take effect?
>>     
>
>
> You shouldn't need to do this for list settings as they are loaded from
> the config.db each time the list is accessed.
>
>   
Cool.
>   
>>  I then subscribed the user.  Still had to manually approve email 
>> messages.  I then unsubscribed the user.
>>     
>
>
> This indicates the From: or Sender: header of the post as received from
> the user has an address which is (perhaps subtly) different from the
> address you are subscribing.
>
>   
I think that the modification of the poster field via the web interface 
will solve the problem.  I'll find out the next time the email (once 
daily) gets generated whether or not it gets posted automatically or 
not.  If this doesn't work then I'll look into the (subtle) differences 
in the email headers.

Thanks so much for your reply,
Ken Wolcott
kwolcott at cloudshield.com




From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun  3 00:13:59 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 15:13:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] password reminders,
	subscribers with listname@xyz.com?
In-Reply-To: <C9F4FE51E4DB3B4EBCA6B115331EB723044A2F1B@MAILBOXTWO.home.ku.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606021513590140e0dc2b07@msapiro>

Dewhirst, Rob wrote:
>
>These two docs differ on how to setup the Exim router
>
><http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html>
>
><http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node21.html>
>
>And they differ by the domains = definition you quote above.  The Exim
>docs have it, the mailman docs don't.

They also differ in the local_part_suffix list. Here too, the Exim docs
have the correct list; the one in the Mailman manual is incomplete.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun  3 00:38:02 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 15:38:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] language encoding for archives
In-Reply-To: <dff375270605260947p61acb606y4764a017b54dc4e1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606021538020484eb0df006@msapiro>

kristina clair wrote:
>
>Thanks so much!  I discovered that messages that are using one
>character set (charset="windows-1251") are appearing correctly and
>messages that are using another character set (charset=iso-8859-1) are
>not appearing correctly.
>
>Is the only fix for this for the list members to use the character set
>which is appearing correctly after mailman processing?

Sorry for not answering sooner. This one got buried in my inbox.

Those users who are sending charset=iso-8859-1 need to do something
different in their MTAs or with the setup of their computers. The
iso-8859-1 character set is also known as Latin-1 or western. It does
not contain encodings for cyrillic characters. The ISO character set
with cyrillic characters is iso-8859-5. Windows-1251 is also a
cyrillic character set.

See for example <http://czyborra.com/charsets/iso8859.html> for
descriptions of the various iso-8859 character sets and
<http://czyborra.com/charsets/cyrillic.html> for various cyrillic
character sets.

Apparently your problem users are using a cyrillic setting on their
computers so that they type and see cyrillic characters on their
displays, but their MUA's are mis-identifying this as iso-8859-1. This
is basically a setup issue on the sender's computers.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From laff at massiveblack.com  Sat Jun  3 00:39:28 2006
From: laff at massiveblack.com (The Lafferty)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 15:39:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] As list administrator,
	your authorization is requested for the following mailing list
	posting:
Message-ID: <20060602223935.8CAC11E400D@bag.python.org>

I'm still getting these messages even though:

in Privacy options>Sender filters>
Action to take for postings from non-members for which no explicit action is
defined is checked off as Accepted.

 

Also, even members posts are held for approval.

 

Help please.

 

thanks

 

Mailman version 2.1.7



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun  3 02:07:38 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 17:07:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] As list administrator,
	your authorization is requested for the following mailing
	listposting:
In-Reply-To: <20060602223935.8CAC11E400D@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC174020060602170738056221d74d38@msapiro>

The Lafferty wrote:

>I'm still getting these messages even though:
>
>in Privacy options>Sender filters>
>Action to take for postings from non-members for which no explicit action is
>defined is checked off as Accepted.
>
> 
>
>Also, even members posts are held for approval.


What is the reason why the posts are held? The reason is in the notice
to the moderator and in the admindb interface and in Mailman's vette
log.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jesse at solidot.org  Sat Jun  3 06:37:33 2006
From: jesse at solidot.org (J. Lee)
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 12:37:33 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Listinfo page template
Message-ID: <41483dbd0606022137g47d59baavb39f7862f7883ac3@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I want to add my site logo to listinfo page (
http://lists.mysite.org/mailman/listinfo), but didn't found which template
file to change.
any help?

Thanks!


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun  3 06:51:48 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 21:51:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Listinfo page template
In-Reply-To: <41483dbd0606022137g47d59baavb39f7862f7883ac3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060221514803752817b547@msapiro>

J. Lee wrote:
>
>I want to add my site logo to listinfo page (
>http://lists.mysite.org/mailman/listinfo), but didn't found which template
>file to change.
>any help?


The listinfo overview page is not built from a template. It is built on
the fly by Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From axel at essbaum.com  Sat Jun  3 16:27:42 2006
From: axel at essbaum.com (Axel Essbaum)
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 16:27:42 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] replace attachment with text
Message-ID: <6a0579af0606030727q2bf8ebe8y3558ebee8746fa6f@mail.gmail.com>

I am running a Mailman 2.1.7 mailing list and stripping attachments
using the default content type and filename extension settings (the
only change I made from default was to set 'Should Mailman filter...'
to Yes).

Is it possible for me to replace attachments with a simple message
stating that the attachment was stripped?

I am trying to avoid the situation where a user sends a message with
an attachment, the attachment is stripped and the remaining text is
posted, and the sender thinks they forgot to include the attachment
and so they post again (and again...) trying to make their attachment
get through.

Thanks!

-- 
Axel Essbaum
axel at essbaum.com


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun  3 17:04:50 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 08:04:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] replace attachment with text
In-Reply-To: <6a0579af0606030727q2bf8ebe8y3558ebee8746fa6f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060603080450075070936240@msapiro>

Axel Essbaum wrote:

>I am running a Mailman 2.1.7 mailing list and stripping attachments
>using the default content type and filename extension settings (the
>only change I made from default was to set 'Should Mailman filter...'
>to Yes).
>
>Is it possible for me to replace attachments with a simple message
>stating that the attachment was stripped?


There is no setting to do this. You would have to modify
Mailman/Handlers/MimeDel.py.

If you don't care if attachments are discarded or not, instead of
filtering content, you could turn on scrub_nondigest which will cause
non-text/plain attachments to be stored aside and replaced by URLs.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jesse at solidot.org  Sat Jun  3 20:45:40 2006
From: jesse at solidot.org (J. Lee)
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 02:45:40 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Listinfo page template
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006060221514803752817b547@msapiro>
References: <41483dbd0606022137g47d59baavb39f7862f7883ac3@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006060221514803752817b547@msapiro>
Message-ID: <41483dbd0606031145k4cdb87bbr84f1ba891a2cb133@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, I am looking into it.

On 6/3/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> J. Lee wrote:
> >
> >I want to add my site logo to listinfo page (
> >http://lists.mysite.org/mailman/listinfo), but didn't found which
> template
> >file to change.
> >any help?
>
>
> The listinfo overview page is not built from a template. It is built on
> the fly by Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From tech at candledark.net  Sat Jun  3 21:56:30 2006
From: tech at candledark.net (Thomas)
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 15:56:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help with an install
In-Reply-To: <41483dbd0606022137g47d59baavb39f7862f7883ac3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060603195605.DC0FA4FC20@buc3.barbourville.com>

I need someone familiar with Mailman and Ensim/virtual domains to get an
install working right. I've got it installed and parts work, parts don't.
I've hammered at it for as long as I care too, and I've reached the limit of
my abilities. It's probably a simple fix but I'm just not seeing it, so I'm
ready to hire someone to fight it for me. Anyone willing to take a crack at
it let me know and we'll work out a deal.

Thomas



From webmaster at godogsomaha.org  Sun Jun  4 01:24:57 2006
From: webmaster at godogsomaha.org (Webmaster)
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 18:24:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounced messages?
Message-ID: <7105474B-FA6C-4C27-8F2A-AD5F7336F12D@godogsomaha.org>

Is there a way to see what messages bounce? I would find it helpful  
to keep a mailing list up to date to know which messages don't get  
through.

-------------------------------------------------------
Steven Weyhrich <IX0YE>--<
Go Dogs! Webmaster
http://www.GoDogsOmaha.org




From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jun  4 01:44:56 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 16:44:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounced messages?
In-Reply-To: <7105474B-FA6C-4C27-8F2A-AD5F7336F12D@godogsomaha.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060316445609376cbf9ee1@msapiro>

Webmaster wrote:

>Is there a way to see what messages bounce? I would find it helpful  
>to keep a mailing list up to date to know which messages don't get  
>through.


If Bounce processing is on, bounces are logged in Mailman's bounce log.
In addition, you can turn on the various notifications to have
unrecognized bounces and/or a copy of the bounce that causes a
member's delivery to be disabled forwarded to the list owner.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sun Jun  4 07:41:15 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 01:41:15 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] distributing Mailman between 2 systems
Message-ID: <4482727B.6020800@yahoo.com>

I would like to move the pipermail archives to a different host then the 
main Mailman system.  Specifically for better archive searching 
performance with htdig.  Is this possible?

-Jim P.


From todd at simplyjew.com  Sun Jun  4 18:19:53 2006
From: todd at simplyjew.com (todd at simplyjew.com)
Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 12:19:53 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] show senders address
Message-ID: <20060604121953.v97rdwi1ycw0owcs@70.98.111.60>

Hi. I am trying to set my list up so that the senders address appears
in the header. Ideally, the list users should see who sent the email.
The reply should still direct the message back to the list, but like I
said, the user can see who sent the message as well. Any help would be
appreciated. Thanks, Todd


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jun  4 19:02:05 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 10:02:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] show senders address
In-Reply-To: <20060604121953.v97rdwi1ycw0owcs@70.98.111.60>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606041002050406562213fb@msapiro>

todd at simplyjew.com wrote:

>Hi. I am trying to set my list up so that the senders address appears
>in the header. Ideally, the list users should see who sent the email.
>The reply should still direct the message back to the list, but like I
>said, the user can see who sent the message as well. Any help would be
>appreciated. Thanks, Todd


On the list's General Options page, as long as anonymous_list is No,
the sender will be in the From: header.

If you want simple reply to go only to the list, see the
first_strip_reply_to and reply_goes_to_list options on the same page.
Read and consider the information at the "(Details for
reply_goes_to_list)" link.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun  5 00:04:03 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 15:04:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] distributing Mailman between 2 systems
In-Reply-To: <4482727B.6020800@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606041504030187b184529e@msapiro>

Jim Popovitch wrote:

>I would like to move the pipermail archives to a different host then the 
>main Mailman system.  Specifically for better archive searching 
>performance with htdig.  Is this possible?


You have basically two issues. One is getting the archived messages
onto the other host, and the other is accessing them.

To get messages archived on (call it) archives.example.com, you could
have Mailman installed and running there. Then, for each list, you
could have the active version, say list at lists.example.com be your
normal list with the addition of list at archives.example.com as a member
and archiving turned off. Then you set up list at archives.example.com
with list-bounces at lists.example.com as the only member (with delivery
and password reminders disabled, to accept the relayed posts) and with
the archive settings you want.

There are probably other ways to do this using external archiver
settings on lists.example.com or by having archives on both hosts and
using rsync to update the archives host, but the above seems simple
enough.

Assuming you're doing the first method, you probably want to set
ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX = -1 in mm_cfg.py on lists.example.com so the archiver
doesn't do any archiving at all. Then you can put your own pages in
archives/private/<listname>/index.html on lists.example.com. These
pages could redirect to the corresponding archive on
archives.example.com. Also, for public archives, you could set
PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL in mm_cfg.py on lists.example.com to point to
archives.example.com.

I haven't thought about this a lot. There may be other (better) ways.
See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.004.htp>
for some additional info.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From r.barrett at openinfo.co.uk  Mon Jun  5 01:41:24 2006
From: r.barrett at openinfo.co.uk (Richard Barrett)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 00:41:24 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] distributing Mailman between 2 systems
In-Reply-To: <4482727B.6020800@yahoo.com>
References: <4482727B.6020800@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B3CAF1CF-CA6B-46E2-9C16-A2679BB01BAE@openinfo.co.uk>


On 4 Jun 2006, at 06:41, Jim Popovitch wrote:

> I would like to move the pipermail archives to a different host  
> then the
> main Mailman system.  Specifically for better archive searching
> performance with htdig.  Is this possible?
>
> -Jim P.

How you approach this depends on what you perceive your problem to be  
and what you mean by "better archive searching performance with htdig".

Like Google and other internet search engines, htdig splits the task  
into two parts: index construction and index search.

Index construction does the heavy lifting of scanning the source  
material and squirreling away in its indices a lot of detail of which  
indexed source files contain what. This can be quite a slow process  
especially when a large body of material has to be initially scanned  
and indexed. It is probably best treated as a batch process run a  
times of light load from other work on the system doing it. Depending  
on the material concerned and how you configure htdig this indexing  
may produce very large indices which can come close to being in the  
same order of magnitude of storage size as the raw source material.  
Many lists with large indices can generate demand for much CPU and  
potentially much storage during indexing (and after in the case of  
storage).

On the other hand index searching to produce a list of source files  
that match the search criteria induces a much lower load on the  
system concerned; after all it is just looking up words in pre-built  
search indices.

The problem with this approach is that search indices are never  
completely up-to-the-minute; but consider how often does Google's  
crawler visit your web site. While updating search indices when new  
documents are added to the archive material should be less load- 
inducing than the original construction of the indices, configuring  
cron jobs so that htdig rebuilds it indices too frequently is not  
advisable. The updating of indices can still involve a lot of IO as  
htdig walks a lot of files to determine which of the existing  
material has been changed as well as what has been added as new.

So first you should define what problem you are trying to solve as  
regards to using htdig before deciding what to do next.

You could plan on having your HTML mail archives integrated with  
Mailman e.g. using pipermail or a pipermail/MHonArc synthesis for the  
archive pages and having htdig integrated with that; I know you are  
aware of the patches available to support this approach and that  
there are some benefits as regard archive privacy being maintained  
and such. I will deal with this integrated approach first. You could  
deploy multiple processors to address the issues by using NFS to  
share the mailman archive storage space between them.

Paranthetically, I successfully ran Mailman on x86 Linux boxes  
entirely out of NFS mounted storage on enterprise level servers for a  
number years, primarily to provide for rapid-ish switchover to a  
backup server in the case of primary Mailman server hardware failure,  
which happened on several occasions. At the time I found that I had  
to limit NFS read/write transfer sizes on the Linux boxes to avoid  
problems in the Linux kernel locking associated with the NFS  
implementation then available. Nowadays I am running Mailman on  
Solaris 10 which has no such problems but I guess the Linux' NFS  
implementation has also improved in the meantime.

The simplest split you could consider is moving the htdig  
installation and workload to a separate machine. The Mailman/htdig  
integration patches support this configuration in conjunction with  
NFS sharing of the Mailman archives files if you look at the  
documentation here:

http://www.openinfo.co.uk/mm/patches/444884/install.html#rconfig

This configuration leaves one machine running Mailman and being  
responsible for providing access to archive material while a second  
machine does htdig's index maintenance. Mailman also "subcontracts"  
each index search requested by a user to the htdig machine but the  
URLs returned in the search results mean that the Mailman machines  
delivers the material from the archives, not the htdig machine.

The question you asked was how to move the pipermail archives to  
another system. Using NFS again, it might be possible to run some of  
Mailman's qrunners on one machine and others (for example, the  
archive runner) on a second to partition things but I have never had  
the time or energy to set up systems to explore the issues of such a  
configuration but somebody else may have pushed the envelope this  
way. As an aside, I would avoid like the plague NFS cross-mounting of  
volumes between machines in any configuration.

If you decide none of the above is appropriate to what you want to  
achieve and the way you want to achieve it then you may be asking the  
wrong question in my view. Maybe you should deploying a mailing list  
archiving system independent of Mailman and you could do worse than  
look at the model set by http://www.mail-archive.com, as a starting  
point.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Barrett                               http://www.openinfo.co.uk




From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jun  5 03:22:00 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 21:22:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] distributing Mailman between 2 systems
In-Reply-To: <B3CAF1CF-CA6B-46E2-9C16-A2679BB01BAE@openinfo.co.uk>
References: <4482727B.6020800@yahoo.com>
	<B3CAF1CF-CA6B-46E2-9C16-A2679BB01BAE@openinfo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <44838738.1090105@yahoo.com>

Wow! thank you Richard.  Apologies for the top post, but I didn't quite 
know where to jump-in on your comments, and I didn't want to truncate 
any of them either.   Thank you for the detailed info.

My issue is that the Mailman host is quite busy processing in/outbound 
email and providing Mailman web access to listinfo, admin, options, etc. 
(via Apache)  When rundig (via nightly_htdig) runs it consumes almost 
all the host CPU resources (5min loadavg hovers at 11% for 5+ hours). 
This has an adverse affect on response times for Apache and the MTA due 
to file system issues (multiple drives and partitions, but in the end 
still just IDE)

My issue isn't so much that I need to move pipermail or the archives to 
a different host but rather just the indexing of them.  I like your 
mailman+htdig integration for pw protected lists, so splitting Mailman 
up from the archives would probably break that or at least make it 
difficult.

Additionally I would like to run nightly_htdig in a continuous loop on 
the second host, constantly cycling through lists and re-digging each as 
needed.

I know how to tweak htdig.conf so that indexing on one host can return 
htsearch results for another.  I know that NFS could help out, but I'm 
forever concerned about NFS security and network issues because I lease 
external hosts from multiple providers and their will always be wan 
issues between them.

What I am thinking of doing (based on your's and Mark's comments) is to 
rsync archive/private/* to a second host and run nightly_htdig on that 
system.  I can then use Apache config to redirect the htsearch queries 
to the second host, and have the results returned point back at the 
primary Mailman host.  I *think* this will work, but need to test.

-Jim P.

Richard Barrett wrote:
> 
> On 4 Jun 2006, at 06:41, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> 
>> I would like to move the pipermail archives to a different host then the
>> main Mailman system.  Specifically for better archive searching
>> performance with htdig.  Is this possible?
>>
>> -Jim P.
> 
> How you approach this depends on what you perceive your problem to be 
> and what you mean by "better archive searching performance with htdig".
> 
> Like Google and other internet search engines, htdig splits the task 
> into two parts: index construction and index search.
> 
> Index construction does the heavy lifting of scanning the source 
> material and squirreling away in its indices a lot of detail of which 
> indexed source files contain what. This can be quite a slow process 
> especially when a large body of material has to be initially scanned and 
> indexed. It is probably best treated as a batch process run a times of 
> light load from other work on the system doing it. Depending on the 
> material concerned and how you configure htdig this indexing may produce 
> very large indices which can come close to being in the same order of 
> magnitude of storage size as the raw source material. Many lists with 
> large indices can generate demand for much CPU and potentially much 
> storage during indexing (and after in the case of storage).
> 
> On the other hand index searching to produce a list of source files that 
> match the search criteria induces a much lower load on the system 
> concerned; after all it is just looking up words in pre-built search 
> indices.
> 
> The problem with this approach is that search indices are never 
> completely up-to-the-minute; but consider how often does Google's 
> crawler visit your web site. While updating search indices when new 
> documents are added to the archive material should be less load-inducing 
> than the original construction of the indices, configuring cron jobs so 
> that htdig rebuilds it indices too frequently is not advisable. The 
> updating of indices can still involve a lot of IO as htdig walks a lot 
> of files to determine which of the existing material has been changed as 
> well as what has been added as new.
> 
> So first you should define what problem you are trying to solve as 
> regards to using htdig before deciding what to do next.
> 
> You could plan on having your HTML mail archives integrated with Mailman 
> e.g. using pipermail or a pipermail/MHonArc synthesis for the archive 
> pages and having htdig integrated with that; I know you are aware of the 
> patches available to support this approach and that there are some 
> benefits as regard archive privacy being maintained and such. I will 
> deal with this integrated approach first. You could deploy multiple 
> processors to address the issues by using NFS to share the mailman 
> archive storage space between them.
> 
> Paranthetically, I successfully ran Mailman on x86 Linux boxes entirely 
> out of NFS mounted storage on enterprise level servers for a number 
> years, primarily to provide for rapid-ish switchover to a backup server 
> in the case of primary Mailman server hardware failure, which happened 
> on several occasions. At the time I found that I had to limit NFS 
> read/write transfer sizes on the Linux boxes to avoid problems in the 
> Linux kernel locking associated with the NFS implementation then 
> available. Nowadays I am running Mailman on Solaris 10 which has no such 
> problems but I guess the Linux' NFS implementation has also improved in 
> the meantime.
> 
> The simplest split you could consider is moving the htdig installation 
> and workload to a separate machine. The Mailman/htdig integration 
> patches support this configuration in conjunction with NFS sharing of 
> the Mailman archives files if you look at the documentation here:
> 
> http://www.openinfo.co.uk/mm/patches/444884/install.html#rconfig
> 
> This configuration leaves one machine running Mailman and being 
> responsible for providing access to archive material while a second 
> machine does htdig's index maintenance. Mailman also "subcontracts" each 
> index search requested by a user to the htdig machine but the URLs 
> returned in the search results mean that the Mailman machines delivers 
> the material from the archives, not the htdig machine.
> 
> The question you asked was how to move the pipermail archives to another 
> system. Using NFS again, it might be possible to run some of Mailman's 
> qrunners on one machine and others (for example, the archive runner) on 
> a second to partition things but I have never had the time or energy to 
> set up systems to explore the issues of such a configuration but 
> somebody else may have pushed the envelope this way. As an aside, I 
> would avoid like the plague NFS cross-mounting of volumes between 
> machines in any configuration.
> 
> If you decide none of the above is appropriate to what you want to 
> achieve and the way you want to achieve it then you may be asking the 
> wrong question in my view. Maybe you should deploying a mailing list 
> archiving system independent of Mailman and you could do worse than look 
> at the model set by http://www.mail-archive.com, as a starting point.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Richard Barrett                               http://www.openinfo.co.uk
> 
> 
> 


From ke6isf at chez-vrolet.net  Mon Jun  5 03:32:22 2006
From: ke6isf at chez-vrolet.net (Dennis Carr)
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 18:32:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 404 for pipermail - where's the data live?
Message-ID: <20060604183222.bdd34f80.ke6isf@chez-vrolet.net>

Using this URL for a list in pipermail:

http://chez-vrolet.net/pipermail/makebelieve/

...I get a 404.  My archives are going *somewhere*, I just don't know
where - can somebody point me to where they live?

Noting that I'm running Debian 3.1.

-Dennis Carr


From jebva at yahoo.com  Mon Jun  5 10:44:19 2006
From: jebva at yahoo.com (7D)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 01:44:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Second request - Code edit question.
Message-ID: <20060605084419.16885.qmail@web30915.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

So I ask a TECHNICAL question on the developers list which in the sign up for these lists says if for technical questions, and I am promptly told to put the question on the users list which is non-technical.  OK so now I am asking here (in the wrong place by y'alls descriptions) how to do something.  Sorry if I sound a little frustrated, but had the descriptions of the lists not been written so poorly I would probably have an answer by now.  ANYWAY...  Can someone PLEASE help me with editing the canned standard confirmation emails for subscribing and unsubscribing to lists?  basically a customer wnats to remove the reference to the web inteface method of confirming the requested action.  Any help in getting this takenb care of would greatly be apprecaited.
   
  Thanks,
  Alan

 __________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun  5 04:15:31 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 19:15:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 404 for pipermail - where's the data live?
In-Reply-To: <20060604183222.bdd34f80.ke6isf@chez-vrolet.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606041915310671b90c901e@msapiro>

Dennis Carr wrote:

>Using this URL for a list in pipermail:
>
>http://chez-vrolet.net/pipermail/makebelieve/
>
>...I get a 404.  My archives are going *somewhere*, I just don't know
>where - can somebody point me to where they live?


Your actual archives are in archives/private/* within the Mailman
hierarchy. Public archives have symlinks in archives/public/*. You
should have something like

Alias   /pipermail/     /path/to/archives/public/

in your httpd.conf and maybe

<Directory "/path/to/archives/public">
    Options +FollowSymLinks
</Directory>

if that isn't already implied elsewhere. See
<http://mailman.sourceforge.net/mailman-install/node10.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From t.d.lee at durham.ac.uk  Mon Jun  5 16:03:12 2006
From: t.d.lee at durham.ac.uk (David Lee)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 15:03:12 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] partial (silent) non-delivery
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0606051501340.29049@arachne.dur.ac.uk>

We're new to mailman, which we are testing on our own departmental staff
list prior to wider roll-out at the univeristy.

System:
   Fedora Core 5
   Mailman 2.1.8 (RPM: mailman-2.1.8-0.FC5.1)
   sendmail 8.13.6 (RPM: sendmail-8.13.6-0.FC5.1)


On the test list for our staff (89 members), some of the emails are
failing, while others succeed.  On a failure email:
1. it only reaches 59 (out of 89) recipients;
2. it loses the hidden headers ("Received:" etc.) prior to the Mailman
   expansion;
3. Instead of:
      From: a.n.other at our.site
      Sender: ourlist-bounces at our.site
   we see just:
      From: ourlist-bounces at our.site
   (no sender; "From" replaced by expected "Sender" contents).
4. The sendmail log shows one of the names to get truncated (from
   "a.b.longname at our.site" to "a.b.lon at our.site".
5. The mailman log files (bounce,post,smtp,vette) don't show anything
   unusual at all.
6. In the body of one of the emails I noticed that what the user had
   typed as "===========" (a set of equals signs as a visual underliner)
   appeared as "=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D...", as though
   some MIME misunderstanding had occured.


We're stumped.

(When we tried re-sending a failed email, including in it a "Bcc:"
directly to me but still through the Mailman machine, it worked.)

A thought: The emails are emanating from Exchange 2003, Service Pack 2.
Might Exchange be generating something non-conformant (its bug) which
Mailman could then be tripping over (Mailman problem)?

Incidentally, one of the mail names on the list contains an apostrophe of
the form: Someone.O'Surname at our.site .  We have seen this sort of thing
cause trouble very occasionally on other email systems.  But if that
really were relevant, then I would expect it to be consistent for all the
mails to the list, not just some of them.

Any ideas?

-- 

:  David Lee                                I.T. Service          :
:  Senior Systems Programmer                Computer Centre       :
:                                           Durham University     :
:  http://www.dur.ac.uk/t.d.lee/            South Road            :
:                                           Durham DH1 3LE        :
:  Phone: +44 191 334 2752                  U.K.                  :


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Jun  5 16:05:52 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 09:05:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Second request - Code edit question.
In-Reply-To: <20060605084419.16885.qmail@web30915.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060605084419.16885.qmail@web30915.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p06200704c0a9e706a65a@[10.0.1.210]>

At 1:44 AM -0700 2006-06-05, 7D wrote:

>  So I ask a TECHNICAL question on the developers list which in the sign up
>  for these lists says if for technical questions, and I am promptly told to
>  put the question on the users list which is non-technical.  OK so now I
>  am asking here (in the wrong place by y'alls descriptions) how to do
>  something.  Sorry if I sound a little frustrated, but had the descriptions
>  of the lists not been written so poorly I would probably have an answer
>  by now.

	Looking at the Mailman listinfo page at 
<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo>, it says that the 
Mailman-developers list is for "GNU Mailman developers", and the 
Mailman-users list is for "Mailman mailing list management users".

	If you go to the list-specific information page for 
mailman-developers, the top two paragraphs are:

		This list is for discussion of the Mailman mailing list
		management system. It is open to people interested in
		improving the usability of the system, including end
		users as well as mailing list managers and development
		coders.

		There is a separate mailing list for people interested
		in discussion regarding configuring and using the
		system - mailman-users.

	In the list=specific information page for mailman-users, it says:

		This mailing list is for users and other parties interested
		in the Mailman mailing list management system. There is a
		separate mailing list for people interested in discussion
		about development of the system - mailman-developers.


	Are you asking a question that relates to development on Mailman? 
If so, then the Mailman-developers list might be the appropriate 
place to ask that.  Otherwise, mailman-users is a better place to go.


	If you have any specific recommendations regarding how we can 
improve the wording of the one-line description and the list-specific 
information text, please let us know.



	My take on your question is that it is operational in nature, and 
you have not developed any Python code to address this issue, nor do 
you have specific Python code that you would like to discuss 
regarding this matter.  If I'm wrong, please let me know.

	Unfortunately, I don't have an answer for your problem.  I 
suspect that you may be able to edit one of the list templates to 
obtain the desired result, but it might also be the case that the 
text you're looking at is generated internally to one of the Python 
routines within Mailman, and therefore you would need to make a minor 
modification to the source code.

	I would encourage you to search the FAQ Wizard and the list 
archives for "template", as well as some of the key words/phrases 
you're looking to remove, and see what turns up.


	Either way, mailman-users is almost certainly a more appropriate 
place to ask this question than mailman-developers.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun  5 16:17:01 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 07:17:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Second request - Code edit question.
In-Reply-To: <20060605084419.16885.qmail@web30915.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060507170102341e7a14eb@msapiro>

7D wrote:

>So I ask a TECHNICAL question on the developers list which in the sign up for these lists says if for technical questions, and I am promptly told to put the question on the users list which is non-technical.  OK so now I am asking here (in the wrong place by y'alls descriptions) how to do something.


Brad has addressed this in another reply.


>Sorry if I sound a little frustrated, but had the descriptions of the lists not been written so poorly I would probably have an answer by now.  


And if you'd looked in the FAQ first, you might too.


>ANYWAY...  Can someone PLEASE help me with editing the canned standard confirmation emails for subscribing and unsubscribing to lists?  basically a customer wnats to remove the reference to the web inteface method of confirming the requested action.  Any help in getting this takenb care of would greatly be apprecaited.


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>.
The particular templates you want are unsub.txt and verify.txt. You
can make list specific, domain specific or sitewide, edited versions
of these per the FAQ.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Jun  5 16:15:41 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 09:15:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Second request - Code edit question.
In-Reply-To: <p06200704c0a9e706a65a@[10.0.1.210]>
References: <20060605084419.16885.qmail@web30915.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<p06200704c0a9e706a65a@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <p06200705c0a9ec89f109@[10.0.1.210]>

At 9:05 AM -0500 2006-06-05, Brad Knowles wrote:

>  	I would encourage you to search the FAQ Wizard and the list
>  archives for "template", as well as some of the key words/phrases
>  you're looking to remove, and see what turns up.

	It turns out that a trivially simple search of the Mailman-users 
archives (following the instructions at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.018.htp>) 
turns up the answer.  Search for "template" and "confirmation".

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun  5 16:49:46 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 07:49:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] partial (silent) non-delivery
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0606051501340.29049@arachne.dur.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060507494603288a117236@msapiro>

David Lee wrote:
>
>System:
>   Fedora Core 5
>   Mailman 2.1.8 (RPM: mailman-2.1.8-0.FC5.1)
>   sendmail 8.13.6 (RPM: sendmail-8.13.6-0.FC5.1)
>
>
>On the test list for our staff (89 members), some of the emails are
>failing, while others succeed.  On a failure email:
>1. it only reaches 59 (out of 89) recipients;


What is in Mailman's 'smtp', 'smtp-failure' and 'bounce' logs?
Specifically, are there any bounces recorded in the bounce log, (Is
bounce processing turned on for the list?) and how many recipients are
indicated in the smtp log entry?


>2. it loses the hidden headers ("Received:" etc.) prior to the Mailman
>   expansion;


Mailman doesn't remove any Received: headers.


>3. Instead of:
>      From: a.n.other at our.site
>      Sender: ourlist-bounces at our.site
>   we see just:
>      From: ourlist-bounces at our.site
>   (no sender; "From" replaced by expected "Sender" contents).


Are these the actual headers in the raw message or just what an MUA
shows? If the latter, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>.
If the former, I suspect Exchange.


>4. The sendmail log shows one of the names to get truncated (from
>   "a.b.longname at our.site" to "a.b.lon at our.site".


If the member address on the list is "a.b.longname at our.site", mailman
won't change it. (Unless maybe it's the one with the apostrophe, but
even then, I'd look outside Mailman first.)


>5. The mailman log files (bounce,post,smtp,vette) don't show anything
>   unusual at all.


See item 1 above - what is the number of recipiients in the smtp log
entry?


>6. In the body of one of the emails I noticed that what the user had
>   typed as "===========" (a set of equals signs as a visual underliner)
>   appeared as "=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D...", as though
>   some MIME misunderstanding had occured.


That is a raw rendering of a quoted-printable encoding. If you are
looking at a raw mesage and it has a "Content-Transfer-Encoding:
quoted-printable" header, this is normal. Otherwise, the encoding is
getting lost somewhere. It's possible, but unlikely that Mailman did
it. Bugs in this area should be fixed in 2.1.8.


>A thought: The emails are emanating from Exchange 2003, Service Pack 2.
>Might Exchange be generating something non-conformant (its bug) which
>Mailman could then be tripping over (Mailman problem)?


Exchange can screw up anything, but once the message gets to Mailman,
if it is sent at all, it should be sent to all eligible members. Are
all 89 members non-digest and delivery enabled?

Are there or were there ever Topics defined for the list? (I really
want to know the recipient count from the 'smtp' log.)

>Incidentally, one of the mail names on the list contains an apostrophe of
>the form: Someone.O'Surname at our.site .  We have seen this sort of thing
>cause trouble very occasionally on other email systems.  But if that
>really were relevant, then I would expect it to be consistent for all the
>mails to the list, not just some of them.


If this is an issue, it would only affect the one user unless sendmail
doesn't like it somehow and drops it and either all preceeding or
following RCPT addresses in that transaction.

I just reread the initial 'fails sometimes' part which I sort of
ignored. This is more puzzling, but most of what I ask above is still
relevant. Could there be some kind of anti-spam content filtering
affecting only the 30 missing? Are the failures from different posters
than the successes? Again, on the failed posts, what is the recipient
count from the 'smtp' log - what does sendmail's maillog say?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From t.d.lee at durham.ac.uk  Mon Jun  5 17:22:09 2006
From: t.d.lee at durham.ac.uk (David Lee)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 16:22:09 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] partial (silent) non-delivery
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006060507494603288a117236@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006060507494603288a117236@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0606051557480.29049@arachne.dur.ac.uk>

On Mon, 5 Jun 2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> David Lee wrote:
> >
> >System:
> >   Fedora Core 5
> >   Mailman 2.1.8 (RPM: mailman-2.1.8-0.FC5.1)
> >   sendmail 8.13.6 (RPM: sendmail-8.13.6-0.FC5.1)
> >
> >
> >On the test list for our staff (89 members), some of the emails are
> >failing, while others succeed.  On a failure email:
> >1. it only reaches 59 (out of 89) recipients;
>
>
> What is in Mailman's 'smtp', 'smtp-failure' and 'bounce' logs?
> Specifically, are there any bounces recorded in the bounce log, (Is
> bounce processing turned on for the list?) and how many recipients are
> indicated in the smtp log entry?

Thanks for the reply, Mark.  Appreciated.

smtp:  All cases:
     <...> smtp to ourlist for 89 recips, completed in ...

smtp-failure:  Nothing

bounce:  No error indications.

"bounce processing" webpage indicates "Yes" for all the yes/no tickboxes.




> >2. it loses the hidden headers ("Received:" etc.) prior to the Mailman
> >   expansion;
>
>
> Mailman doesn't remove any Received: headers.

On these duff emails, the headers prior to Mailman are absent.  Something
has removed them.  I'm speculating (and it is mere speculation without
evidence!) that a badly formatted incoming (or mismatched content;
8-bit-isms, etc.) email might be exposing some sort of lurking problem in
Mailman.


> >3. Instead of:
> >      From: a.n.other at our.site
> >      Sender: ourlist-bounces at our.site
> >   we see just:
> >      From: ourlist-bounces at our.site
> >   (no sender; "From" replaced by expected "Sender" contents).
>
>
> Are these the actual headers in the raw message or just what an MUA
> shows? If the latter, see
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>.
> If the former, I suspect Exchange.

Although the department is Exchange based (don't ask!) I'm personally
using good old trusty Pine to read this information from the copy of the
email that comes to me (fortunately I'm one of the 59 who receive it).
Yes, Outlook and OWA are (in general) conflating the "Sender:" and "From:"
so I'm painfully aware of that presentation issue.


> >4. The sendmail log shows one of the names to get truncated (from
> >   "a.b.longname at our.site" to "a.b.lon at our.site".
>
>
> If the member address on the list is "a.b.longname at our.site", mailman
> won't change it. (Unless maybe it's the one with the apostrophe, but
> even then, I'd look outside Mailman first.)

Again, this was just an observation.  Something, somewhere is going wrong,
and this is a _set_ of symptoms on such emails.


> >5. The mailman log files (bounce,post,smtp,vette) don't show anything
> >   unusual at all.
>
>
> See item 1 above - what is the number of recipiients in the smtp log
> entry?

89 (everyone).  But the sendmail log says 59 (on the bad emails; 89 on the
good).


> >6. In the body of one of the emails I noticed that what the user had
> >   typed as "===========" (a set of equals signs as a visual underliner)
> >   appeared as "=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D...", as though
> >   some MIME misunderstanding had occured.
>
>
> That is a raw rendering of a quoted-printable encoding. If you are
> looking at a raw mesage and it has a "Content-Transfer-Encoding:
> quoted-printable" header, this is normal. Otherwise, the encoding is
> getting lost somewhere. It's possible, but unlikely that Mailman did
> it. Bugs in this area should be fixed in 2.1.8.
>
>
> >A thought: The emails are emanating from Exchange 2003, Service Pack 2.
> >Might Exchange be generating something non-conformant (its bug) which
> >Mailman could then be tripping over (Mailman problem)?
>
>
> Exchange can screw up anything, but once the message gets to Mailman,
> if it is sent at all, it should be sent to all eligible members. Are
> all 89 members non-digest and delivery enabled?

The list is set up automatically with everyone identical: a typical
entry is ticked for "mods", "nodupes" and "plain".


> Are there or were there ever Topics defined for the list? (I really
> want to know the recipient count from the 'smtp' log.)

"Topics"?  I'm new to Mailman (but with several years email experience).
Guide me!


>
> >Incidentally, one of the mail names on the list contains an apostrophe of
> >the form: Someone.O'Surname at our.site .  We have seen this sort of thing
> >cause trouble very occasionally on other email systems.  But if that
> >really were relevant, then I would expect it to be consistent for all the
> >mails to the list, not just some of them.
>
>
> If this is an issue, it would only affect the one user unless sendmail
> doesn't like it somehow and drops it and either all preceeding or
> following RCPT addresses in that transaction.

The list membership is basically static.  The apostrophe person has been
here many years and her email has been fine.


>
> I just reread the initial 'fails sometimes' part which I sort of
> ignored. This is more puzzling, but most of what I ask above is still
> relevant. Could there be some kind of anti-spam content filtering
> affecting only the 30 missing? Are the failures from different posters
> than the successes? Again, on the failed posts, what is the recipient
> count from the 'smtp' log - what does sendmail's maillog say?

Yes it is that "sometimes" which is baffling.  An email to the list failed
(as described, with that set of symptoms) this morning.  A repost
(admittedly slightly edited)  to appease those who would complain of
double receipt worked (all symptoms gone).

Shall I zip up the logs and email them to you off-list?  (I've had a good
look through them, but you may still spot something I've missed.)

Are there any debug/log/trace things/flags/switches that I could enable?



-- 

:  David Lee                                I.T. Service          :
:  Senior Systems Programmer                Computer Centre       :
:                                           Durham University     :
:  http://www.dur.ac.uk/t.d.lee/            South Road            :
:                                           Durham DH1 3LE        :
:  Phone: +44 191 334 2752                  U.K.                  :


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Mon Jun  5 17:37:03 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 08:37:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Second request - Code edit question.
In-Reply-To: <20060605084419.16885.qmail@web30915.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060605084419.16885.qmail@web30915.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060605083136.06037f78@crimson-dragon.com>

7D wrote:
>So I ask a TECHNICAL question on the developers list which in the 
>sign up for these lists says if for technical questions, and I am 
>promptly told to put the question on the users list which is 
>non-technical.  OK so now I am asking here (in the wrong place by 
>y'alls descriptions) how to do something.  Sorry if I sound a little 
>frustrated, but had the descriptions of the lists not been written 
>so poorly I would probably have an answer by now.  ANYWAY...  Can 
>someone PLEASE help me with editing the canned standard confirmation 
>emails for subscribing and unsubscribing to lists?  basically a 
>customer wnats to remove the reference to the web inteface method of 
>confirming the requested action.  Any help in getting this takenb 
>care of would greatly be apprecaited.
>
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

Going into a user-supported, open-source community demanding help 
with an attitude like this is not going to win you any points.

Mark and Brad answered your question for you but a bit of due 
diligence on your part would have saved a lot of vitriol and you 
would not have annoyed two of the most helpful, knowledgeable and 
active members of this forum.

There is an extensive FAQ with a search facility that would have 
gotten you the answer you needed without the unpleasantness.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From jwblist3 at olympus.net  Mon Jun  5 18:00:58 2006
From: jwblist3 at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 09:00:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Second request - Code edit question.
In-Reply-To: <20060605084419.16885.qmail@web30915.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C0A9A34A.CE57%jwblist3@olympus.net>

On 6/5/06 1:44 AM, "7D" <jebva at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Can someone PLEASE help me with editing the canned standard confirmation
> emails for subscribing and unsubscribing to lists?  basically a customer wnats
> to remove the reference to the web inteface method of confirming the requested
> action.  Any help in getting this takenb care of would greatly be apprecaited.

Brad and Mark have provided the answer.

If one is part of an organization which tries to train its people not to
click on links in email--a reasonable training goal in today's malware
world, it seems wrong for that organization's mailing lists to send out
email which strongly encourages clicking on such links.

Having not found that idea in the Feature Requests section on SourceForge, I
have added item 1501086 there covering it.

  --John (who normally discards list messages with subjects containing
"Second request" and the like, but didn't this time)





From danielbk at ornl.gov  Mon Jun  5 18:09:35 2006
From: danielbk at ornl.gov (Daniel, Barry K.)
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 12:09:35 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Sendmail debugging questions
Message-ID: <890ECEBADF00794ABC9C94752F4C0CEB01D143D8@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>

Sorry this is so late since the last update but I have been on travel.
My attempt to send email to the Mailman mailing list is bouncing and I
do not know why.  Here are some excerpts from some appropriate files.
Any suggestions?

mailertable

domain.gov                 mailman:domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov

 

virtualusertable

##

## Place mailing list virtual mappings here

testlist at domain.gov                        testlist

testlist-admin at domain.gov                  testlist-admin

testlist-bounces at domain.gov                testlist-bounces

testlist-confirm at domain.gov                testlist-confirm

testlist-join at domain.gov                   testlist-join

testlist-leave at domain.gov                  testlist-leave

testlist-owner at domain.gov                  testlist-owner

testlist-request at domain.gov                testlist-request

testlist-subscribe at domain.gov              testlist-subscribe

testlist-unsubscribe at domain.gov            testlist-unsubscribe

 

##

## Redirect mail to the standard Mailman admin addresses to the

## master admin address. ( is our site's central

## mail-routing server, and it carries aliases for maintenance groups.

## Not a good plan to entrust Mailman maintenance mail to Mailman.)

##

mailman at listserv.domain.gov                mailman-owner at domain.gov

mailman-owner at listserv.domain.gov          mailman-owner at domain.gov

 

/usr/local/mailman/logs/smtp

May 19 01:19:56 2006 (8840) <fcc2a6a24143.446d1d39 at domain.gov> smtp to
testlist for 4 recips, completed in 0.080 seconds

"/usr/local/mailman/logs/smtp" 56 lines, 7782 characters

May 19 08:00:02 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1148040001.9670.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.101 seconds

May 20 08:00:02 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1148126400.12254.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.067 seconds

May 21 08:00:01 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1148212800.14751.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.089 seconds

May 22 08:00:02 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1148299201.17245.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.122 seconds

May 23 08:00:02 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1148385601.19920.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.106 seconds

May 24 08:00:02 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1148472000.25754.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.081 seconds

May 25 08:00:03 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1148558401.2563.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.078 seconds

May 26 08:00:02 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1148644800.8882.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.108 seconds

May 27 08:00:03 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1148731201.23378.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.099 seconds

May 28 08:00:01 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1148817601.7850.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.108 seconds

May 29 08:00:02 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1148904001.22295.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.097 seconds

May 30 08:00:01 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1148990400.6750.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.104 seconds

May 31 08:00:01 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1149076800.21419.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.098 seconds

Jun 01 08:00:03 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1149163201.5829.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.103 seconds

Jun 02 08:00:02 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1149249600.20237.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.076 seconds

Jun 03 08:00:01 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1149336000.4898.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.099 seconds

Jun 04 08:00:03 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1149422401.19476.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.098 seconds

Jun 05 08:00:02 2006 (8986)
<mailman.0.1149508800.3782.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.088 seconds

 

/var/log/maillog

Jun  5 08:00:02 domainwcs1 sendmail[3803]: [ID 801593 mail.info]
k55C028Z003803: from=<testlist-bounces at domainmta.domainpriv.gov>,
size=2214, class=-60,

nrcpts=1,
msgid=<mailman.0.1149508800.3782.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov>,
proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]

Jun  5 08:00:02 domainwcs1 sendmail[3805]: [ID 801593 mail.info]
k55C028Z003803: to=<testlist-owner at domainmta.domainpriv.gov>,
delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=smtp, pri=230214,
relay=smtp.domainpriv.gov. [10.31.162.17], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (2.5.0
Ok.)


-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Bogen [mailto:pdbogen at gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 10:44 PM
To: Daniel, Barry K.
Cc: Mark Sapiro; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Sendmail debugging questions

On 5/18/06, Daniel, Barry K. <danielbk at ornl.gov> wrote:
>
> Yes, I did rebuild the aliases file and restart Sendmail.
> The messages are arriving at the Mailman server with a @domain.gov
address, not @domainpriv.gov.
> How do I ensure that Sendmail is set to accept this as a local
delivery address?  The Mailman machine is XXXX.domainpriv.gov.

There are a couple of ways to do this with sendmail. If you have
mailertable support, you can add a rule to your mailertable like:

domain.gov local:

Or, perhaps, you can add domain.gov to sendmail's 'local-host-names'
file.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun  5 18:34:11 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 09:34:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] partial (silent) non-delivery
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0606051557480.29049@arachne.dur.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606050934110187224deac6@msapiro>

David Lee wrote:

>smtp:  All cases:
>     <...> smtp to ourlist for 89 recips, completed in ...
>
>smtp-failure:  Nothing
>
>bounce:  No error indications.
>
>"bounce processing" webpage indicates "Yes" for all the yes/no tickboxes.


OK. This tells us that Mailman delivered the post to sendmail for 89
recipients and there were no errors reported back to Mailman at the
SMTP transaction level and no subsequent bounces (recognized bounces
would be counted in the bounce log and unrecognized bounces forwarded
to the list owner.



>> >2. it loses the hidden headers ("Received:" etc.) prior to the Mailman
>> >   expansion;
>>
>>
>> Mailman doesn't remove any Received: headers.
>
>On these duff emails, the headers prior to Mailman are absent.  Something
>has removed them.  I'm speculating (and it is mere speculation without
>evidence!) that a badly formatted incoming (or mismatched content;
>8-bit-isms, etc.) email might be exposing some sort of lurking problem in
>Mailman.


If there were such a lurking problem, I can't see how it would cause
this problem. The message gets all the way through Mailman to the
'out' queue and has 89 recipients. The problem would have to cause
SMTPDirect to drop some recipients yet still count them. It's hard to
see how this could happen.

Is there anything in Mailman's error log? Anything in the 'shunt' queue
(qfiles/shunt directory)?


>> >3. Instead of:
>> >      From: a.n.other at our.site
>> >      Sender: ourlist-bounces at our.site
>> >   we see just:
>> >      From: ourlist-bounces at our.site
>> >   (no sender; "From" replaced by expected "Sender" contents).


Always, or just on problem cases? Assuming SMTPDirect is unmodified, it
always adds a "Sender: ourlist-bounces at our.site" header to the
outgoing message. Thus, deletion of Sender: must be happening after
Mailman.


>> >4. The sendmail log shows one of the names to get truncated (from
>> >   "a.b.longname at our.site" to "a.b.lon at our.site".
>>
>>
>> If the member address on the list is "a.b.longname at our.site", mailman
>> won't change it. (Unless maybe it's the one with the apostrophe, but
>> even then, I'd look outside Mailman first.)
>
>Again, this was just an observation.  Something, somewhere is going wrong,
>and this is a _set_ of symptoms on such emails.


So this only occurs on the problem mails? wierd!



>> Are there or were there ever Topics defined for the list? (I really
>> want to know the recipient count from the 'smtp' log.)
>
>"Topics"?  I'm new to Mailman (but with several years email experience).
>Guide me!


Don't worry about Topics. This would only be relevant if the recipient
count in the 'smtp' log were 59 in the problem cases.



>Shall I zip up the logs and email them to you off-list?  (I've had a good
>look through them, but you may still spot something I've missed.)


Not yet.


>Are there any debug/log/trace things/flags/switches that I could enable?


There are no extra debugging switches to get more log output.

You could do the following:

Edit the file Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py

The last line in the file is:

    failures.update(refused)

Following this, add

    syslog('smtp', 'Msgid: %s, Chunk sent to: %s', msgid, recips)

Indent this the same amount (4 spaces) as the line above. This will log
the list of recipients for each (possibly only one depending on other
settings) SMTP transaction. After editing the file, you need to do
'bin/mailmanctl restart' to load the changed module.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From clovis at agr.unicamp.br  Mon Jun  5 18:44:46 2006
From: clovis at agr.unicamp.br (Clovis Tristao)
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 13:44:46 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman doubt
Message-ID: <44845F7E.5090604@agr.unicamp.br>

Hi,
I made a cleanness in my server of some accounts and the Mailman server 
is not answering adequately.
I made the unsubscribe in the lists of the removed users, but I am 
receiving the following message in /var/log/maillog from the Postfix

Jun  5 13:41:09 <hostname> postfix/smtpd[13306]: 46679C3D572: reject: 
RCPT from localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]: 550 <UserMail at domain>: 
Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table; 
from=<listname-l-bounces at domain> to=<UserMail at domain> proto=ESMTP 
helo=<hostname.domain>

What it can be happening?
Already it restarts mailman 2.1.8 two times.

Cheers,

Cl?vis

-- 
Clovis Tristao - UNICAMP/Faculdade de Engenharia Agricola
Administrador de Redes - Secao de Informatica (SINFO)
E-mail: clovis at agr.unicamp.br http://www.agr.unicamp.br
Fone(0xx19) 37881031-37881038 ou FAX(55xx19) 37881005/37881010



From dudu.meyer at gmail.com  Mon Jun  5 19:16:27 2006
From: dudu.meyer at gmail.com (Eduardo Meyer)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 14:16:27 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Domain / Postfix
Message-ID: <d3ea75b30606051016j2176ecccv50ae4ed388a85089@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I am willing to configure Virtual Domains in Postfix, and followed
documentation available at:

http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/postfix-virtual.html

Other than correctly configuring Postfix and mm_cfg.py with
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = pointing all my virtual domains, I
also added

add_virtualhost('www.XX.domain', 'XX.domain')

To mm_cfg.py after I tried without it. And in both cases (with and
without) I didn't work.

When I try to add a list which already exists in the main domain,
mailman states this list already exists. I am trying to create it via
Web...

Created the first list on:

http://www.domain.com.br/mailman/create

And want to create the second on

http://www.XX.domain.com.br/mailman/create

Mailman Web interface does not distinguishes that it is a different
domain (a subdomain in fact).

What am I missing? Is there a better documentation than the above
mentioned to try before asking for help?

Thank you a lot.


From t.d.lee at durham.ac.uk  Mon Jun  5 19:18:17 2006
From: t.d.lee at durham.ac.uk (David Lee)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 18:18:17 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] partial (silent) non-delivery
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606050934110187224deac6@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200606050934110187224deac6@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0606051758480.29049@arachne.dur.ac.uk>

On Mon, 5 Jun 2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Is there anything in Mailman's error log? Anything in the 'shunt' queue
> (qfiles/shunt directory)?

Empty for two weeks (and that itself was installation set-up issues).

> >> >3. Instead of:
> >> >      From: a.n.other at our.site
> >> >      Sender: ourlist-bounces at our.site
> >> >   we see just:
> >> >      From: ourlist-bounces at our.site
> >> >   (no sender; "From" replaced by expected "Sender" contents).
>
>
> Always, or just on problem cases? Assuming SMTPDirect is unmodified, it
> always adds a "Sender: ourlist-bounces at our.site" header to the
> outgoing message. Thus, deletion of Sender: must be happening after
> Mailman.

Just problem cases.  Good emails have both fields (as shown above);  bad
emails have just the "From" but with "Sender"-like contents (as above).


> So this only occurs on the problem mails? wierd!

Yes!

> There are no extra debugging switches to get more log output.
>
> You could do the following:
>
> Edit the file Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py
>
> The last line in the file is:
>
>     failures.update(refused)
>
> Following this, add
>
>     syslog('smtp', 'Msgid: %s, Chunk sent to: %s', msgid, recips)
>
> Indent this the same amount (4 spaces) as the line above. This will log
> the list of recipients for each (possibly only one depending on other
> settings) SMTP transaction. After editing the file, you need to do
> 'bin/mailmanctl restart' to load the changed module.

Done (edit and 'bin/mailmanctl restart').  I think I got it right!

I'll await the next email (or two) through the list.

Thanks again.

-- 

:  David Lee                                I.T. Service          :
:  Senior Systems Programmer                Computer Centre       :
:                                           Durham University     :
:  http://www.dur.ac.uk/t.d.lee/            South Road            :
:                                           Durham DH1 3LE        :
:  Phone: +44 191 334 2752                  U.K.                  :


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Jun  5 18:31:22 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 11:31:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Second request - Code edit question.
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060605083136.06037f78@crimson-dragon.com>
References: <20060605084419.16885.qmail@web30915.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20060605083136.06037f78@crimson-dragon.com>
Message-ID: <p06200707c0aa0bcf459d@[10.0.1.210]>

At 8:37 AM -0700 2006-06-05, Dragon wrote:

>  Mark and Brad answered your question for you but a bit of due
>  diligence on your part would have saved a lot of vitriol and you
>  would not have annoyed two of the most helpful, knowledgeable and
>  active members of this forum.

	In all fairness, the list descriptions at 
<http://www.list.org/lists.html> are not as accurate as they could 
be, and the descriptions we have at 
<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/>, 
<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers>, and 
<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users> could 
probably also use some further clarification.

	I'll take these up with Barry and the other list admins -- it's 
easy enough for us to fix the descriptions that are actually under 
the control of Mailman, but only Barry can fix the web pages at 
list.org.


	That said, you are absolutely correct that a few moments spent 
searching the FAQ and the list archives could have gotten an answer 
to this question without involving anyone else at all, and also 
avoided any delays in trying to post the message to one place, then 
being told that it should be posted somewhere else, etc....

	Thanks for your support!

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Jun  5 18:36:08 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 11:36:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] partial (silent) non-delivery
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0606051557480.29049@arachne.dur.ac.uk>
References: <PC17402006060507494603288a117236@msapiro>
	<Pine.GSO.4.58.0606051557480.29049@arachne.dur.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <p06200708c0aa0ce88768@[10.0.1.210]>

At 4:22 PM +0100 2006-06-05, David Lee wrote:

>  Yes it is that "sometimes" which is baffling.  An email to the list failed
>  (as described, with that set of symptoms) this morning.  A repost
>  (admittedly slightly edited)  to appease those who would complain of
>  double receipt worked (all symptoms gone).

	The more I see about this, the more I suspect that some sort of 
arcane bug is being triggered in Mailman or one of the Python 
libraries.

>  Shall I zip up the logs and email them to you off-list?  (I've had a good
>  look through them, but you may still spot something I've missed.)

	Complete copies of sample messages that get munged versus 
messages that go through unharmed might help, as well as copies of 
messages that went before and after each incident.  Combined with 
additional log information, this might let us figure out what's going 
on.

>  Are there any debug/log/trace things/flags/switches that I could enable?

	Regretfully, Mailman doesn't have any additional debug facilities 
that are not already turned on.  You might be able to add some 
additional Python code to cause additional information to be logged, 
but it will take time to narrow down precisely where that additional 
code would be needed.

	I'm hoping that more extensive debugging facilities is something 
that can be addressed in Mailman 2.2, or at least in Mailman3.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun  5 19:24:47 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 10:24:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman doubt
In-Reply-To: <44845F7E.5090604@agr.unicamp.br>
References: <44845F7E.5090604@agr.unicamp.br>
Message-ID: <448468DF.3050101@value.net>

Clovis Tristao wrote:
>
> I made a cleanness in my server of some accounts and the Mailman server 
> is not answering adequately.
> I made the unsubscribe in the lists of the removed users, but I am 
> receiving the following message in /var/log/maillog from the Postfix
> 
> Jun  5 13:41:09 <hostname> postfix/smtpd[13306]: 46679C3D572: reject: 
> RCPT from localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]: 550 <UserMail at domain>: 
> Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table; 
> from=<listname-l-bounces at domain> to=<UserMail at domain> proto=ESMTP 
> helo=<hostname.domain>

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that you removed 
UserMail at domain from the listname-l list, yet Postfix is still receiving 
mail from the list for that user.

Is that address an 'owner' or a 'moderator' of the listname-l list? That 
could cause the list to send mail to it.

Or are messages being sent from that address (possibly spoofed) to one 
of the list addresses?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun  5 19:29:33 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 10:29:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Domain / Postfix
In-Reply-To: <d3ea75b30606051016j2176ecccv50ae4ed388a85089@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606051029330468f7e69f95@msapiro>

Eduardo Meyer wrote:
>
>When I try to add a list which already exists in the main domain,
>mailman states this list already exists.


This is a limitation of Mailman. Even with virtual domains, list names
must be unique within the installation, not just within the domain.


>What am I missing? Is there a better documentation than the above
>mentioned to try before asking for help?

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.047.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From clovis at agr.unicamp.br  Mon Jun  5 19:57:47 2006
From: clovis at agr.unicamp.br (Clovis Tristao)
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 14:57:47 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman doubt
In-Reply-To: <448468DF.3050101@value.net>
References: <44845F7E.5090604@agr.unicamp.br> <448468DF.3050101@value.net>
Message-ID: <4484709B.60409@agr.unicamp.br>

Hi Mark,

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Clovis Tristao wrote:
>>
>> I made a cleanness in my server of some accounts and the Mailman 
>> server is not answering adequately.
>> I made the unsubscribe in the lists of the removed users, but I am 
>> receiving the following message in /var/log/maillog from the Postfix
>>
>> Jun  5 13:41:09 <hostname> postfix/smtpd[13306]: 46679C3D572: reject: 
>> RCPT from localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]: 550 <UserMail at domain>: 
>> Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table; 
>> from=<listname-l-bounces at domain> to=<UserMail at domain> proto=ESMTP 
>> helo=<hostname.domain>
>
> If I understand you correctly, you are saying that you removed 
> UserMail at domain from the listname-l list, yet Postfix is still 
> receiving mail from the list for that user.
Yes
> Is that address an 'owner' or a 'moderator' of the listname-l list? 
> That could cause the list to send mail to it.
Normal user.
> Or are messages being sent from that address (possibly spoofed) to one 
> of the list addresses?
Apparently mailman is using a separate archive of users old table from 
listname-l to direct the messages.
As postfix that all time that I bring up to date /etc/aliases, necessary 
to twirl the command newaliases.
It can be this? Exists this in the Mailman?

Thanks a lot,

Cl?vis

-- 
Clovis Tristao - UNICAMP/Faculdade de Engenharia Agricola
Administrador de Redes - Secao de Informatica (SINFO)
E-mail: clovis at agr.unicamp.br http://www.agr.unicamp.br
Fone(0xx19) 37881031-37881038 ou FAX(55xx19) 37881005/37881010



From he at reclaimedcomputers.ca  Mon Jun  5 19:33:46 2006
From: he at reclaimedcomputers.ca (Hugh Esco)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 10:33:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Possible? Multiple instances off single code base?
Message-ID: <20060605103346.c8e31d4e.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>

I'm wondering, as a means for simplifying maintainence, is
there a way to deploy multiple instances of Mailman off a
single code base, so that there is only one instance of the
code to upgrade and maintain.  

Any and all insight would be appreciated.  

-- 
Hugh Esco 
http://reclaimedcomputers.ca/


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun  5 20:04:47 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 11:04:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Sendmail debugging questions
In-Reply-To: <890ECEBADF00794ABC9C94752F4C0CEB01D143D8@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>
References: <890ECEBADF00794ABC9C94752F4C0CEB01D143D8@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>
Message-ID: <4484723F.1060806@value.net>

Daniel, Barry K. wrote:
> Sorry this is so late since the last update but I have been on travel.
> My attempt to send email to the Mailman mailing list is bouncing and I
> do not know why.  Here are some excerpts from some appropriate files.


What's in your aliases file? There should be 10 entries for each list 
that look similar to the following excerpt for the 'mailman' list

  mailman:             "|/path/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
  mailman-admin:       "|/path/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
  mailman-bounces:     "|/path/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
  mailman-confirm:     "|/path/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
  mailman-join:        "|/path/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
  mailman-leave:       "|/path/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
  mailman-owner:       "|/path/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
  mailman-request:     "|/path/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
  mailman-subscribe:   "|/path/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
  mailman-unsubscribe: "|/path/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"

Without these, those local addresses won't be piped to Mailman.


> /usr/local/mailman/logs/smtp
> 
> May 19 01:19:56 2006 (8840) <fcc2a6a24143.446d1d39 at domain.gov> smtp to
> testlist for 4 recips, completed in 0.080 seconds


This looks like an actual post was sent to 4 recipients.



> "/usr/local/mailman/logs/smtp" 56 lines, 7782 characters
> 
> May 19 08:00:02 2006 (8986)
> <mailman.0.1148040001.9670.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
> testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.101 seconds


This and all the subsequent ones look like the "nn testlist moderator 
requests waiting" message sent to the testlist-owner address at 8:00 
a.m. daily, but it is not being received at the testlist-owner address 
and piped back to mailman for delivery to the actual owner


> /var/log/maillog
> 
> Jun  5 08:00:02 domainwcs1 sendmail[3803]: [ID 801593 mail.info]
> k55C028Z003803: from=<testlist-bounces at domainmta.domainpriv.gov>,
> size=2214, class=-60,
> 
> nrcpts=1,
> msgid=<mailman.0.1149508800.3782.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov>,
> proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]
> 
> Jun  5 08:00:02 domainwcs1 sendmail[3805]: [ID 801593 mail.info]
> k55C028Z003803: to=<testlist-owner at domainmta.domainpriv.gov>,
> delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=smtp, pri=230214,
> relay=smtp.domainpriv.gov. [10.31.162.17], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (2.5.0
> Ok.)


But it is sent somewhere - maybe /var/spool/mail/testlist-owner?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dudu.meyer at gmail.com  Mon Jun  5 20:08:02 2006
From: dudu.meyer at gmail.com (Eduardo Meyer)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 15:08:02 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Domain / Postfix
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606051029330468f7e69f95@msapiro>
References: <d3ea75b30606051016j2176ecccv50ae4ed388a85089@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200606051029330468f7e69f95@msapiro>
Message-ID: <d3ea75b30606051108w616c1266sbadeff2263d2b6fe@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/5/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Eduardo Meyer wrote:
> >
> >When I try to add a list which already exists in the main domain,
> >mailman states this list already exists.
>
>
> This is a limitation of Mailman. Even with virtual domains, list names
> must be unique within the installation, not just within the domain.

> See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.047.htp>

Very bad, because I am exactly migrating the enviroment from CPanel to
non-cpanel.

I will try Niedermann's patches.

Thank you Sapiro for pointing out this limitation and references.


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun  5 20:15:38 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 11:15:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman doubt
In-Reply-To: <4484709B.60409@agr.unicamp.br>
References: <44845F7E.5090604@agr.unicamp.br> <448468DF.3050101@value.net>
	<4484709B.60409@agr.unicamp.br>
Message-ID: <448474CA.3080706@value.net>

Clovis Tristao wrote:

> Apparently mailman is using a separate archive of users old table from 
> listname-l to direct the messages.

There is no such thing. Mailman has no prior users information. If you 
are looking at membership via the web, it is possible that you are 
seeing old cached pages and not seeing an accurate list. What does

bin/list_members listname-l

or

bin/list_members listname-l | grep -i UserMail

show?


> As postfix that all time that I bring up to date /etc/aliases, necessary 
> to twirl the command newaliases.
> It can be this? Exists this in the Mailman?


No. Any changes you make via say bin/remove_members or the Membership 
Management web interface are effective immediately.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From lists at videonetwork.org  Mon Jun  5 20:17:54 2006
From: lists at videonetwork.org (Ben Edwards (Lists))
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 19:17:54 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] misgation advice
Message-ID: <1149531474.4891.26.camel@chomsky>

We have a new server running plesk/mailman 2.1.5.  We need to move from
a old server with mailman 2.1.2.  What is the best way to do this, the
URL/domains are changing and we want to move the archive.

Ben




From kwolcott at cloudshield.com  Mon Jun  5 20:21:28 2006
From: kwolcott at cloudshield.com (Kenneth A. Wolcott)
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 11:21:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Added email address to "posters" in list config,
 but user's email must be approved each time, why?
In-Reply-To: <44809894.60607@cloudshield.com>
References: <PC17402006060212183703623ba30d0f@Notebook>
	<44809894.60607@cloudshield.com>
Message-ID: <44847628.1000302@cloudshield.com>

Kenneth A. Wolcott wrote:
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>   
>> Kenneth A. Wolcott wrote:
>>   
>>     
>>>  I added a user's email address to the "posters" variable in the 
>>> specific list config file, but still the user's email must be approved 
>>> each time.
>>>     
>>>       
>> Did you add the address to 'posters' via the web admin interface or
>> some other method that actually updated the lists/<listname>/config.db
>> file?
>>   
>>     
>
>   No.  I modified the config file directly.  I hadn't looked in the 
> Private section from the web interface previously.  I recently started 
> using the master password since no one could remember what the regular 
> mailman admin password was.  Prior to using the master password, I 
> didn't have access to the web interface and I was trying to do 
> everything as root from the command line.  I just now added the email 
> address via the web interface in the Private section.
>   
>>   
>>     
>>>  Why is this?  Do I need to shutdown and restart Mailman for the config 
>>> changes to take effect?
>>>     
>>>       
>> You shouldn't need to do this for list settings as they are loaded from
>> the config.db each time the list is accessed.
>>
>>   
>>     
> Cool.
>   
>>   
>>     
>>>  I then subscribed the user.  Still had to manually approve email 
>>> messages.  I then unsubscribed the user.
>>>     
>>>       
>> This indicates the From: or Sender: header of the post as received from
>> the user has an address which is (perhaps subtly) different from the
>> address you are subscribing.
>>
>>   
>>     
> I think that the modification of the poster field via the web interface 
> will solve the problem.  I'll find out the next time the email (once 
> daily) gets generated whether or not it gets posted automatically or 
> not.  If this doesn't work then I'll look into the (subtle) differences 
> in the email headers.
>
> Thanks so much for your reply,
> Ken Wolcott
> kwolcott at cloudshield.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/kwolcott%40cloudshield.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>
>   
  Adding the poster via the web interface solved the problem.  I no 
longer have to accept the postings from this virtual user.

Thank you,
Ken W.


From clovis at agr.unicamp.br  Mon Jun  5 20:21:44 2006
From: clovis at agr.unicamp.br (Clovis Tristao)
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 15:21:44 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman doubt
In-Reply-To: <448474CA.3080706@value.net>
References: <44845F7E.5090604@agr.unicamp.br> <448468DF.3050101@value.net>
	<4484709B.60409@agr.unicamp.br> <448474CA.3080706@value.net>
Message-ID: <44847638.3010204@agr.unicamp.br>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Clovis Tristao wrote:
>
>> Apparently mailman is using a separate archive of users old table 
>> from listname-l to direct the messages.
>
> There is no such thing. Mailman has no prior users information. If you 
> are looking at membership via the web, it is possible that you are 
> seeing old cached pages and not seeing an accurate list. What does
>
> bin/list_members listname-l
>
> or
>
> bin/list_members listname-l | grep -i UserMail
>
> show?
No, but postfix/smtpd have try to send e-mail. Very stranger....
Any idea?
>> As postfix that all time that I bring up to date /etc/aliases, 
>> necessary to twirl the command newaliases.
>> It can be this? Exists this in the Mailman?
> No. Any changes you make via say bin/remove_members or the Membership 
> Management web interface are effective immediately.
Ok,

Thanks a lot,

Cl?vis

-- 
Clovis Tristao - UNICAMP/Faculdade de Engenharia Agricola
Administrador de Redes - Secao de Informatica (SINFO)
E-mail: clovis at agr.unicamp.br http://www.agr.unicamp.br
Fone(0xx19) 37881031-37881038 ou FAX(55xx19) 37881005/37881010



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun  5 20:52:20 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 11:52:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman doubt
In-Reply-To: <44847638.3010204@agr.unicamp.br>
References: <44845F7E.5090604@agr.unicamp.br>
	<448468DF.3050101@value.net>	<4484709B.60409@agr.unicamp.br>
	<448474CA.3080706@value.net> <44847638.3010204@agr.unicamp.br>
Message-ID: <44847D64.6070003@value.net>

Clovis Tristao wrote:

> No, but postfix/smtpd have try to send e-mail. Very stranger....
> Any idea?

If an address is not a list member, the only ways I know that mailman 
will try to send to it are

It is an 'owner', or
It is a 'moderator' (have you checked to be sure it isn't either of 
these), or

Mailman is sending some kind of reply to a message received from that 
address - e.g. a possibly spoofed post attempt.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From gus at clacso.edu.ar  Mon Jun  5 21:52:25 2006
From: gus at clacso.edu.ar (gus)
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 16:52:25 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman stop
Message-ID: <44848B79.3090109@clacso.edu.ar>

Hello
I have a problem with Mailman..
Two errors in two week...

[Errno 3] No such process
File pid corrupted delete..

When I see these error , mailman stop...
Anyone can help me,,
Thanks
Gus



From chris at woodchipcomputers.co.uk  Mon Jun  5 22:41:03 2006
From: chris at woodchipcomputers.co.uk (Chris Wright)
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 21:41:03 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Probably RTFM
Message-ID: <4484A4EF.7504.318D45B@chris.woodchipcomputers.co.uk>

I've read through all the FAQs I can find - and discovered several 
bits of "good advice" - but still haven't done it...

My Mailman admin pages all lack the logos, mailman.jpg etc.

Some advice tells me to put it in the Apache default icons folder (in 
my case, I think that's /usr/share/apache2/icons/) - and I am sure 
that may be true for (eg) this mailman-users list, which calls for:

<img src="/icons/mailman.jpg">

However the pages created by my installation say:

<img src="/images/mailman/mailman.jpg>

I am at a loss as to how I either:

Alter a config file to make my pages look in the default icons page

or

Find the right *@!^* folder to put the icons in!

Sorry that this is such a boring old hat of a question - but I got 
stuck and would be REALLY grateful for some guidance...

Best wishes
Chris




From ogre at rpg-vault.net  Mon Jun  5 23:13:55 2006
From: ogre at rpg-vault.net (ogre at rpg-vault.net)
Date: Mon,  5 Jun 2006 17:13:55 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Issues with mailman starting.
Message-ID: <20060605171355.97frg7sxjsgsk004@webmail.rpg-vault.net>

I am currently running mailman in a plesk enviroment. This is the first attempt
that I have made to use it on the system. However I noticed that it was not
working. Deeper investigation showed me that mailman was not even loading.
Checking the error logs I found that following:

Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382): Traceback (most recent call last):
Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):   File "./mailmanctl", line 597, in ?
Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):      main()
Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):   File "./mailmanctl", line 416, in main
Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):      check_for_site_list()
Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):   File "./mailmanctl", line 318, in
check_for_site_list
Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):      sitelist = MailList(sitelistname,
lock=0)
Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):   File
"/var/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 128, in __init__
Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):      self.Load()
Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):   File
"/var/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 593, in Load
Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):      dict, e = self.__load(file)
Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):   File
"/var/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 566, in __load
Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):      dict = loadfunc(fp)
Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382): AttributeError :  'dict' object has no
attribute 'append'

Does anyone have any suggestions on what could be causing this. I'm afraid I've
been unable to locate a reason for it.

Please let me know your thoughts.

-- James Boylan



From he at reclaimedcomputers.ca  Mon Jun  5 23:36:22 2006
From: he at reclaimedcomputers.ca (Hugh Esco)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 14:36:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Possible? Multiple instances off single code
 base?
In-Reply-To: <20060605103346.c8e31d4e.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
References: <20060605103346.c8e31d4e.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
Message-ID: <20060605143622.5cb347f7.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>

Just to clarify what I'm asking here:  

Is it possible to run instances of Mailman on
multiple and distinct domains on a single installation of
the code base?  

Does anyone here have a recipe for how this is done? 

-- Hugh 

On Mon, 5 Jun 2006 10:33:46 -0700
Hugh Esco <he at reclaimedcomputers.ca> wrote:

> I'm wondering, as a means for simplifying maintainence, is
> there a way to deploy multiple instances of Mailman off a
> single code base, so that there is only one instance of the
> code to upgrade and maintain.  
> 
> Any and all insight would be appreciated.  
> 
> -- 
> Hugh Esco 
> http://reclaimedcomputers.ca/
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/he%40reclaimedcomputers.ca
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 
> 


-- 
Hugh Esco 
250-352-9361
he at reclaimedcomputers.ca
RCK Computer Services 
http://reclaimedcomputers.ca/


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Tue Jun  6 00:02:43 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 15:02:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Possible? Multiple instances off single code
 base?
In-Reply-To: <20060605143622.5cb347f7.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
References: <20060605103346.c8e31d4e.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
	<20060605143622.5cb347f7.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060605145135.0612f138@crimson-dragon.com>

Hugh Esco sent the message below at 14:36 6/5/2006:
>Just to clarify what I'm asking here:
>
>Is it possible to run instances of Mailman on
>multiple and distinct domains on a single installation of
>the code base?
>
>Does anyone here have a recipe for how this is done?
>
>-- Hugh
>
>On Mon, 5 Jun 2006 10:33:46 -0700
>Hugh Esco <he at reclaimedcomputers.ca> wrote:
>
> > I'm wondering, as a means for simplifying maintainence, is
> > there a way to deploy multiple instances of Mailman off a
> > single code base, so that there is only one instance of the
> > code to upgrade and maintain.
> >
> > Any and all insight would be appreciated.
>
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

As far as I know and understand, this is not possible without a lot 
of effort to make it happen. The default build of mailman certainly 
cannot do this because of the way it reads its configuration.

The only thing I can think of that might make this work without a 
complete rewrite of mailman (and I am far from being certain that 
this would in fact work) would be to create a copy of the 
installation directory structure and then populate it with symbolic 
links to all of the scripts, wrappers, etc. You would then need 
copies of the configuration files in the new directory with 
appropriate changes.

This seems difficult at best. I'm also not sure what advantage such a 
configuration might provide other than reduced disk space (but 
mailman itself has a pretty small disk footprint, it's the archives 
that are disk hogs). It's probably a lot easier to create a shell 
script to build and install new versions of mailman in however many 
directories you need for the various copies you wish to run.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun  6 02:25:15 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 17:25:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Probably RTFM
In-Reply-To: <4484A4EF.7504.318D45B@chris.woodchipcomputers.co.uk>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606051725150140335e853b@msapiro>

Chris Wright wrote:
>
>I am at a loss as to how I either:
>
>Alter a config file to make my pages look in the default icons page
>
>or
>
>Find the right *@!^* folder to put the icons in!


Yeah, I think it's rtfm :-)

Specifically, <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node10.html>.

If the manual is unclear, ask again and I'll try to translate it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun  6 02:51:30 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 17:51:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Issues with mailman starting.
In-Reply-To: <20060605171355.97frg7sxjsgsk004@webmail.rpg-vault.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606051751300515ebd0a001@msapiro>

ogre at rpg-vault.net wrote:

>I am currently running mailman in a plesk enviroment. This is the first attempt
>that I have made to use it on the system. However I noticed that it was not
>working. Deeper investigation showed me that mailman was not even loading.
>Checking the error logs I found that following:
>
>Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382): Traceback (most recent call last):
>Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):   File "./mailmanctl", line 597, in ?
>Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):      main()
>Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):   File "./mailmanctl", line 416, in main
>Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):      check_for_site_list()
>Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):   File "./mailmanctl", line 318, in
>check_for_site_list
>Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):      sitelist = MailList(sitelistname,
>lock=0)
>Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):   File
>"/var/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 128, in __init__
>Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):      self.Load()
>Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):   File
>"/var/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 593, in Load
>Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):      dict, e = self.__load(file)
>Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):   File
>"/var/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 566, in __load
>Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382):      dict = loadfunc(fp)
>Jun 05 16:23:57 2006 mailmanctl(14382): AttributeError :  'dict' object has no
>attribute 'append'
>
>Does anyone have any suggestions on what could be causing this. I'm afraid I've
>been unable to locate a reason for it.


Well, there is a file lists/mailman/config.pck (assuming the default
name 'mailman' for the site list) or maybe config.db or either of
those with .last appended, or you wouldn't be getting to that point in
the code.

I'm not sure why the attempt to load it throws that particular
exception, but whatever the putative list configuration file is, it is
apparently corrupt.

Assuming the sitelist name is 'mailman', I suggest the following:

bin/rmlist -a mailman
bin/newlist mailman
         (there will be some interactive prompts from this)
bin/config_list -i data/sitelist.cfg mailman

Or you could create and set up the 'mailman' list using the web
interface - mailmanctl doesn't have to be running for that.

Also, it might be a good idea to check what is actually in the
lists/mailman directory before doing the rmlist in case it's the
'wrong' directory.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun  6 03:12:43 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 18:12:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Possible? Multiple instances off single
	codebase?
In-Reply-To: <20060605143622.5cb347f7.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606051812430046c2172819@msapiro>

Hugh Esco wrote:
>
>Is it possible to run instances of Mailman on
>multiple and distinct domains on a single installation of
>the code base?  

Dragon has actually given a good response, but to elaborate a bit, at
first blush it would seem you could configure a bunch of Mailman
instances with the same --prefix and each with its own unique
--with-var-prefix.

The big issue is each install requires its own Defaults.py and
mm_cfg.py because these contain both paths and host domain names, and
these modules live in $prefix/Mailman with (most of) the rest of the
code. Changing this would literally require changing "from Mailman
import mm_cfg" in every single module.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun  6 03:29:15 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 18:29:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] misgation advice
In-Reply-To: <1149531474.4891.26.camel@chomsky>
Message-ID: <PC174020060605182915075087a77f7d@msapiro>

Ben Edwards (Lists) wrote:

>We have a new server running plesk/mailman 2.1.5.  We need to move from
>a old server with mailman 2.1.2.  What is the best way to do this, the
>URL/domains are changing and we want to move the archive.


Move lists/* except for lists/mailman and run fix_url on each list. If
you don't have virtual hosts requiring different fix_url options for
different lists, you can just run

bin/withlist -a -l -r fix_url

Run bin/fix_url.py for details of fix_url. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp>.

Archives can be done in a couple of ways. You can move the entire
archives/ directory except for archives/private/mailman/ and
archives/private/mailman.mbox/, but that will leave some absolute URLs
in the archive with the wrong host name. To avoid this, you can mobe
just the archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox files for each
list and then run bin/arch --wipe on each list to recreate the HTML
archives. This won't create the public archive symlinks, but those get
redone on the fly anyway every time the list is changed in any way
(web config, post, etc.).

There is a FAQ at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.004.htp>
but it is sorely in need of updating.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun  6 03:37:38 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 18:37:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman stop
In-Reply-To: <44848B79.3090109@clacso.edu.ar>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060518373807967520eb62@msapiro>

gus wrote:

>I have a problem with Mailman..
>Two errors in two week...
>
>[Errno 3] No such process
>File pid corrupted delete..
>
>When I see these error , mailman stop...


Where do you see this error? Is there any additional information
associated with it? What Mailman version is this? What OS
platform/version?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jesse.solidot at gmail.com  Tue Jun  6 04:35:30 2006
From: jesse.solidot at gmail.com (Jesse Lee)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 10:35:30 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config Prob. Can't Send or Receive Mail
Message-ID: <41483dbd0606051935m364d8da9j88239fce60ba6794@mail.gmail.com>

Sending mail to list failed, Seems this is  the config problem.

Here is the exim4's mainlog:
2006-06-06 02:10:29 H=(squid5.vmmatrix.net) [10.0.8.5] F=<
wealthyplum at yahoo.com> temporarily rejected RCPT <
slash-chinese at lists.mysite.org>: require_files:
"MM_HOME/lists/slash-chinese/config.pck" is not absolute

Help Please!

Thanks.


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun  6 05:22:54 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 20:22:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config Prob. Can't Send or Receive Mail
In-Reply-To: <41483dbd0606051935m364d8da9j88239fce60ba6794@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606052022540453e462647b@msapiro>

Jesse Lee wrote:
>
>Here is the exim4's mainlog:
>2006-06-06 02:10:29 H=(squid5.vmmatrix.net) [10.0.8.5] F=<
>wealthyplum at yahoo.com> temporarily rejected RCPT <
>slash-chinese at lists.mysite.org>: require_files:
>"MM_HOME/lists/slash-chinese/config.pck" is not absolute


Do you have an assignment to MM_HOME in your exim.conf file. Is it an
absolute path to the directory that contains
/lists/slash-chinese/config.pck, i.e. something like

MM_HOME=/usr/local/mailman

See <http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html#exconf>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jesse.solidot at gmail.com  Tue Jun  6 06:42:07 2006
From: jesse.solidot at gmail.com (Jesse Lee)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 12:42:07 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config Prob. Can't Send or Receive Mail
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606052022540453e462647b@msapiro>
References: <41483dbd0606051935m364d8da9j88239fce60ba6794@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200606052022540453e462647b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <657728f60606052142m5cb72e9av9411f23d78f36cd6@mail.gmail.com>

I have MAILMAN_HOME = ... in my exim main configuration file, changed to
MM_HOME = ...
But maybe it also has other problems, when sending mail to list, mailman
send back and says local delivery failed. I am checking now.

On 6/6/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Jesse Lee wrote:
> >
> >Here is the exim4's mainlog:
> >2006-06-06 02:10:29 H=(squid5.vmmatrix.net) [10.0.8.5] F=<
> > wealthyplum at yahoo.com> temporarily rejected RCPT <
> >slash-chinese at lists.mysite.org>: require_files:
> >"MM_HOME/lists/slash-chinese/config.pck" is not absolute
>
>
> Do you have an assignment to MM_HOME in your exim.conf file. Is it an
> absolute path to the directory that contains
> /lists/slash-chinese/config.pck, i.e. something like
>
> MM_HOME=/usr/local/mailman
>
> See <http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html#exconf>
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From pabs3 at bonedaddy.net  Tue Jun  6 06:49:55 2006
From: pabs3 at bonedaddy.net (Paul Wise)
Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2006 12:49:55 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sysadmin held messages reviewer?
Message-ID: <1149569395.6963.72.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Hi all,

[please CC me, I am subscribed, but have nomail set]

I'm wondering if anyone on this list has written or knows of an
interactive command-line application to allow a sysadmin on a mailman
server to review all the held messages and subscription requests for all
lists associated with a mailman install. I run a small mailman install,
and my list admins are not very active, so I like to go through all the
lists once in a while and discard spam. Currently I use a simple script
to generate a list of admindb urls to open in my browser. That has
become tedious though.

-- 
bye,
pabs

http://pabs.zip.to
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From manuel at arteryplanet.net  Tue Jun  6 05:35:55 2006
From: manuel at arteryplanet.net (ArteryPlanet.Net :: Manuel Kissoyan)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 00:35:55 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing domain name in list
Message-ID: <015501c6891a$52c5fd60$6401a8c0@sarna>

Hope you could help....

I just moved an account from one server to another and then changed the domain name, for some reason the control panel (cPanel) hasnt changed the mailman domain name, so i gone ahead and renamed the mailing list directory and the archive directory with the new domain name.
Now for some reason the confirmation email when you send a mail to the mailing list is showing the old domain name, how i could change it?

Thank you in advance!

From tmz at pobox.com  Tue Jun  6 07:28:55 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 01:28:55 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing domain name in list
In-Reply-To: <015501c6891a$52c5fd60$6401a8c0@sarna>
References: <015501c6891a$52c5fd60$6401a8c0@sarna>
Message-ID: <20060606052855.GE2258@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

ArteryPlanet.Net :: Manuel Kissoyan wrote:
> I just moved an account from one server to another and then changed
> the domain name, for some reason the control panel (cPanel) hasnt
> changed the mailman domain name

Ahhh, the beauty of control panels. :)

> so i gone ahead and renamed the mailing list directory and the
> archive directory with the new domain name.  Now for some reason the
> confirmation email when you send a mail to the mailing list is
> showing the old domain name, how i could change it?

There is a script included with mailman called fix_url.py.  If you run
it without any arguments, it will give you usage instructions.  This
script is in the bin dir of the mailman install, which, if I recall
correctly, is something like /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman in
cpanel.

If you don't have shell access to the server, you'll need to ask
someone that does to do this for you.  You/they may find it helpful to
search the archives and FAQ for this list if the usage instructions
from fix_url.py aren't clear enough or don't work as expected.

One wrinkle that you may run into is that cpanel modifies mailman to
append the domain name to the list directory.  I'm not sure if that'll
affect the fix_url.py script or not.  If it doesn't work as the usage
examples show, the script might need patched.  I moved some lists from
one cpanel system to another a few years ago and I can't recall if
that was a problem or not.  I believe I had to manually change some
variables in the config.pck files.  I try to put any experiences I
have with cpanel behind me as quickly as possible.  Sorry for the hazy
and vague recollections. :)

Do take note of FAQ 6.11, Mailman and CPanel:

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp

- -- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
It is easier to destroy an atomic nucleus than a prejudice.
     -- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.

iG0EARECAC0FAkSFEpcmGGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucG9ib3guY29tL350bXovcGdwL3Rt
ei5hc2MACgkQuv+09NZUB1qvOwCeI6UlDJsKT3rU1+yb+4R3jlGN/xwAoOMQbGkC
shq9BAzOXbbpRHIn7933
=Tl7a
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From infernokim at gmail.com  Tue Jun  6 11:46:36 2006
From: infernokim at gmail.com (kim moodley)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 11:46:36 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] import email addresses
Message-ID: <7b59d3d10606060246pa7b2687j58c6dd76d4f5f44d@mail.gmail.com>

I need help.

I have a new mailing list. I have about 600 addresses in a excel

spreadsheet.

In what format should it be in to import and how do i do it .

Please, Please help me.


From manuel at arteryplanet.net  Tue Jun  6 18:11:39 2006
From: manuel at arteryplanet.net (ArteryPlanet.Net :: Manuel Kissoyan)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 13:11:39 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing domain name in list
References: <015501c6891a$52c5fd60$6401a8c0@sarna>
	<20060606052855.GE2258@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
Message-ID: <015501c68983$e61ba3d0$6401a8c0@sarna>

Thanx Todd, ill give it a try.




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Todd Zullinger" <tmz at pobox.com>
To: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 2:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] changing domain name in list


> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> ArteryPlanet.Net :: Manuel Kissoyan wrote:
>> I just moved an account from one server to another and then changed
>> the domain name, for some reason the control panel (cPanel) hasnt
>> changed the mailman domain name
> 
> Ahhh, the beauty of control panels. :)
> 
>> so i gone ahead and renamed the mailing list directory and the
>> archive directory with the new domain name.  Now for some reason the
>> confirmation email when you send a mail to the mailing list is
>> showing the old domain name, how i could change it?
> 
> There is a script included with mailman called fix_url.py.  If you run
> it without any arguments, it will give you usage instructions.  This
> script is in the bin dir of the mailman install, which, if I recall
> correctly, is something like /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman in
> cpanel.
> 
> If you don't have shell access to the server, you'll need to ask
> someone that does to do this for you.  You/they may find it helpful to
> search the archives and FAQ for this list if the usage instructions
> from fix_url.py aren't clear enough or don't work as expected.
> 
> One wrinkle that you may run into is that cpanel modifies mailman to
> append the domain name to the list directory.  I'm not sure if that'll
> affect the fix_url.py script or not.  If it doesn't work as the usage
> examples show, the script might need patched.  I moved some lists from
> one cpanel system to another a few years ago and I can't recall if
> that was a problem or not.  I believe I had to manually change some
> variables in the config.pck files.  I try to put any experiences I
> have with cpanel behind me as quickly as possible.  Sorry for the hazy
> and vague recollections. :)
> 
> Do take note of FAQ 6.11, Mailman and CPanel:
> 
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp
> 
> - -- 
> Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
> ======================================================================
> It is easier to destroy an atomic nucleus than a prejudice.
>     -- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.
> 
> iG0EARECAC0FAkSFEpcmGGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucG9ib3guY29tL350bXovcGdwL3Rt
> ei5hc2MACgkQuv+09NZUB1qvOwCeI6UlDJsKT3rU1+yb+4R3jlGN/xwAoOMQbGkC
> shq9BAzOXbbpRHIn7933
> =Tl7a
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
>


From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Tue Jun  6 18:22:12 2006
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 11:22:12 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Separating Public and Private Archives
Message-ID: <200606061622.k56GMCJQ029254@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

The mailman code puts, for public archives, a pointer to the
private directory.  This will prevent public access to the private
archives if the archives are on a traditional Unix file system.
I am experimenting with placing the archives in the Andrew File
System (AFS), where access is controlled by access control lists.
In AFS, a non-privileged user can see the private archives.

Is there an easy way to change the mailman behavior so that the 
public archives are placed into their own directory and are not
symbolic links to the private directory?  Thanks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994



From clovis at agr.unicamp.br  Tue Jun  6 18:45:22 2006
From: clovis at agr.unicamp.br (Clovis Tristao)
Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2006 13:45:22 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman doubt
In-Reply-To: <44847D64.6070003@value.net>
References: <44845F7E.5090604@agr.unicamp.br>
	<448468DF.3050101@value.net>	<4484709B.60409@agr.unicamp.br>
	<448474CA.3080706@value.net> <44847638.3010204@agr.unicamp.br>
	<44847D64.6070003@value.net>
Message-ID: <4485B122.8080602@agr.unicamp.br>

Hi Mark,

I discovered that in the dir /var/spool/mailman, exists several queue 
mail files .pck.
How I make to clean these messages? They are some command in mailman, I 
was using show_qfiles

/var/spool/mailman
drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman   4096 Jun  6 12:06 archive
drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman 348160 Jun  6 12:34 bounces
drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman   4096 Jun  3 01:59 commands
drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman   4096 Jun  6 12:34 in
drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman   4096 Dez  7 22:10 news
drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman  28672 Jun  6 13:28 out
drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman   4096 Jun  6 13:28 retry
drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman   4096 Jun  6 10:29 shunt
drwxrws---  2 root    mailman  20480 Jun  6 12:21 virgin

[root at MAILMANSRV bin]# ls -l /var/spool/mailman/out/
total 80
-rw-rw----  1 mailman mailman 33751 Jun  6 13:21 
1149508442.772583+5e97f28df0f1ef37bdf9035a7b169e7ec632844d.pck
-rw-rw----  1 mailman mailman 35273 Jun  6 13:21 
1149512047.127331+e5373243d0cf32e5c52247b102f661e0b5771735.pck
[root at MAILMANSRV bin]# ls -l /var/spool/mailman/retry/
total 712
-rw-rw----  1 mailman mailman 286717 Jun  6 13:22 
1149184670.344089+ec5f7731834330c8a3e9cb3a0dcf646a0e23907e.pck
-rw-rw----  1 mailman mailman  18235 Jun  6 13:23 
1149193398.3745279+6473b547e916eb4208494d70922ee2a79ba51a0e.pck
-rw-rw----  1 mailman mailman  12618 Jun  6 13:24 
1149249199.3237391+17f248993aca327230ecf3622d40aad90242f06d.pck
-rw-rw----  1 mailman mailman 294079 Jun  6 13:26 
1149254706.318541+1878d7cb6fe8bdad82d140421503e8b771e3100b.pck
-rw-rw----  1 mailman mailman  18968 Jun  6 13:28 
1149260259.1665981+4328f6486e955040a2772063324b57cc5d7a10d7.pck
-rw-rw----  1 mailman mailman  28785 Jun  6 13:30 
1149275615.933814+9eb98a0c97e56e16ade672e1a6b7b3b0abb7749e.pck
-rw-rw----  1 mailman mailman  19380 Jun  6 13:21 
1149513325.651197+604e5b0126e9c71c1523dcaa209d2a056e0c7c44.pck

Thanks a lot,
Cl?vis


Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Clovis Tristao wrote:
>
>> No, but postfix/smtpd have try to send e-mail. Very stranger....
>> Any idea?
>
> If an address is not a list member, the only ways I know that mailman 
> will try to send to it are
>
> It is an 'owner', or
> It is a 'moderator' (have you checked to be sure it isn't either of 
> these), or
>
> Mailman is sending some kind of reply to a message received from that 
> address - e.g. a possibly spoofed post attempt.
>


-- 
Clovis Tristao - UNICAMP/Faculdade de Engenharia Agricola
Administrador de Redes - Secao de Informatica (SINFO)
E-mail: clovis at agr.unicamp.br http://www.agr.unicamp.br
Fone(0xx19) 37881031-37881038 ou FAX(55xx19) 37881005/37881010



From ogre at rpg-vault.net  Tue Jun  6 22:05:56 2006
From: ogre at rpg-vault.net (ogre at rpg-vault.net)
Date: Tue,  6 Jun 2006 16:05:56 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] One Down, one more to go.
In-Reply-To: <4485B122.8080602@agr.unicamp.br>
References: <44845F7E.5090604@agr.unicamp.br> <448468DF.3050101@value.net>
	<4484709B.60409@agr.unicamp.br> <448474CA.3080706@value.net>
	<44847638.3010204@agr.unicamp.br> <44847D64.6070003@value.net>
	<4485B122.8080602@agr.unicamp.br>
Message-ID: <20060606160556.73wfq6bcm1vwokck@webmail.boylan.net>

Well, the original problem I was having has been resolved. It was an attribute
error and the information on removing and recreating the mailman list solved
it.

However now I have an issue where emailing a list the email you sent to 
the list
never goes anywhere. Nothing in the logs. Nothing anywhere.

I know that th3e invites and outbound matters from mailman work perfectly, but
none of the emails being sent to the mailing list are going anywhere. 
They just
seem to disappear and there doesn't seem to be any trace of them 
anywhere or in
any logs. I know that email is working on the server. Its my primary email
server and everyone is receiving email.

Anyone have any suggestions?

--
James T. Boylan



From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Tue Jun  6 22:30:00 2006
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2006 16:30:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] One Down, one more to go.
In-Reply-To: <20060606160556.73wfq6bcm1vwokck@webmail.boylan.net>
References: <44845F7E.5090604@agr.unicamp.br>
	<448468DF.3050101@value.net>	<4484709B.60409@agr.unicamp.br>
	<448474CA.3080706@value.net>	<44847638.3010204@agr.unicamp.br>
	<44847D64.6070003@value.net>	<4485B122.8080602@agr.unicamp.br>
	<20060606160556.73wfq6bcm1vwokck@webmail.boylan.net>
Message-ID: <4485E5C8.8030805@wingfoot.org>

ogre at rpg-vault.net wrote:
> However now I have an issue where emailing a list the email you sent to 
> the list never goes anywhere. Nothing in the logs. Nothing anywhere.
> 
> I know that th3e invites and outbound matters from mailman work perfectly, but
> none of the emails being sent to the mailing list are going anywhere. 
> They just seem to disappear and there doesn't seem to be any trace of them 
> anywhere or in any logs. I know that email is working on the server.
> Its my primary email server and everyone is receiving email.
> 
> Anyone have any suggestions?

First things first (from the FAQ Wizard):

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?query=troubleshooting&querytype=simple&casefold=yes&req=search

Once you've gone through that, let us know if you're still having
problems.. but we need to know stuff like:

1) What MTA are you running? Sendmail? Postfix? Exim? What?
2) Are the emails even coming into the server? Have you followed the
Message ID through the logs to see where it stops? Is it being delivered
to Mailman?
3) Relevant snippets of mail log files so we can see what may be going on.

Best,
--Glenn


From dan at music.memphis.edu  Tue Jun  6 22:21:01 2006
From: dan at music.memphis.edu (Dan Phillips)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 15:21:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] One Down, one more to go.
In-Reply-To: <20060606160556.73wfq6bcm1vwokck@webmail.boylan.net>
References: <44845F7E.5090604@agr.unicamp.br> <448468DF.3050101@value.net>
	<4484709B.60409@agr.unicamp.br> <448474CA.3080706@value.net>
	<44847638.3010204@agr.unicamp.br> <44847D64.6070003@value.net>
	<4485B122.8080602@agr.unicamp.br>
	<20060606160556.73wfq6bcm1vwokck@webmail.boylan.net>
Message-ID: <0A314D97-DBCF-489B-91C0-E83DF9FF4876@music.memphis.edu>


On Jun 6, 2006, at 3:05 PM, ogre at rpg-vault.net wrote:

> none of the emails being sent to the mailing list are going anywhere.
>
> Anyone have any suggestions?

Have you been through the steps in http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw- 
mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp ?


Dan

====================
Dan Phillips
Associate Professor
Rudi E. Scheidt School of Music
University of Memphis
dan at music.memphis.edu





From jnguyen at ncmir.ucsd.edu  Tue Jun  6 23:02:34 2006
From: jnguyen at ncmir.ucsd.edu (Jana Nguyen)
Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2006 14:02:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] locate user passwd or resend passwd to user?
Message-ID: <4485ED6A.1050002@ncmir.ucsd.edu>

Hi,

I enable the archive file source for private archive; only current list 
members can view the archives.  The problem is I migrated the list of 
members via the command line /bin/add_members  in "quite" mode so the 
user doesn't have the password to authenticate to view the archive. 

How or where do I locate the user password or is there a way that I 
re-send out all email to user with their passwd attached?

Thanks!


From amir.helzer at gmail.com  Tue Jun  6 23:50:14 2006
From: amir.helzer at gmail.com (Amir Helzer)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 14:50:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to connect my server to mailman?
Message-ID: <e335b7a20606061450q60ecf24k929069ab875f60ca@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I'm very new to mailman, so excuse my newbie questions.

My server has user lists and other information in its own database, and I
want to use mailman for mass email distribution (which my hosting forbids me
to do on the website server). So, I want my cgi-bin scripts to be able to do
management operations for my mailman lists, e.g.:
* Subscribe new users, so that they don't even need to reply to ack (they
already did it on my server)
* Subscribe news users so that the need to reply to mailman's subscription
email.
* Remove users from the list

Any remote queries that I can use (somewhat safely), from within the network
in order to achieve those?

Thanks,
Amir


From Muhammad at tajdeed.net  Wed Jun  7 00:13:58 2006
From: Muhammad at tajdeed.net (Muhammad Al-Massari)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 23:13:58 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] WHO command reproduces only a fraction of my list
Message-ID: <056d01c689b6$823ae9b0$5600000a@muhammadpc>

WHO command reproduces only a fraction of my list

I tried to use the "Who password" command to obtain a complete listing of all the members of my list. Instead of getting the 20 000, or so, e-mails contained in that list, I got only about 750 e-mails (that i less than 4%).

Could any one out there advise what to do (or: not to do) to obtain the full list??!! 

Thanks very much in anticipation!!



Muhammad Al-Massari


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  7 02:14:04 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 17:14:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] locate user passwd or resend passwd to user?
In-Reply-To: <4485ED6A.1050002@ncmir.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060617140400219e672e99@msapiro>

Jana Nguyen wrote:
>
>I enable the archive file source for private archive; only current list 
>members can view the archives.  The problem is I migrated the list of 
>members via the command line /bin/add_members  in "quite" mode so the 
>user doesn't have the password to authenticate to view the archive. 
>
>How or where do I locate the user password or is there a way that I 
>re-send out all email to user with their passwd attached?

Users can request a password reminder email at any time by entering
their email on the listinfo page to go to their options page and then
clicking the "remind" button on the options login page.

Passwords are normally mailed monthly to each user unless you have
disabled this for the list.

You can generate reminders manually by running "cron/mailpasswds -l
listname", but password reminders must be enabled for the list
(General Options->send_reminders = Yes) or they wont be sent for that
list. Also, users can individually turn off auto-mailed passwords, but
anyone who did this had to know their password to do it and presumably
knew what they were doing.

Run "cron/mailpasswds --help" for more info.

Also, "bin/dumpdb lists/<listname>/config.pck" will dump the passwords
along with much other data.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  7 02:29:49 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 17:29:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config Prob. Can't Send or Receive Mail
In-Reply-To: <657728f60606052142m5cb72e9av9411f23d78f36cd6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606061729490396e8b0f8fd@msapiro>

Jesse Lee wrote:
>
>I have MAILMAN_HOME = ... in my exim main configuration file, changed to
>MM_HOME = ...
>But maybe it also has other problems, when sending mail to list, mailman
>send back and says local delivery failed. I am checking now.


The Mailman installation manual uses MAILMAN_* macro names. The
instructions at <http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html#exconf> use
MM_* macro names.

It looks like you have a hybrid. Use the instructions on the exim site.
They are mostly the same in effect, but the exim site has a couple of
other things correct which are not complete in the Mailman
installation manual.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  7 02:40:34 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 17:40:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman doubt
In-Reply-To: <4485B122.8080602@agr.unicamp.br>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606061740340834eef047e4@msapiro>

Clovis Tristao wrote:
>
>I discovered that in the dir /var/spool/mailman, exists several queue mail files .pck.
>How I make to clean these messages? They are some command in mailman, I 
>was using show_qfiles
>
>/var/spool/mailman
>drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman   4096 Jun  6 12:06 archive
>drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman 348160 Jun  6 12:34 bounces
>drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman   4096 Jun  3 01:59 commands
>drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman   4096 Jun  6 12:34 in
>drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman   4096 Dez  7 22:10 news
>drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman  28672 Jun  6 13:28 out
>drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman   4096 Jun  6 13:28 retry
>drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman   4096 Jun  6 10:29 shunt
>drwxrws---  2 root    mailman  20480 Jun  6 12:21 virgin
>
>[root at MAILMANSRV bin]# ls -l /var/spool/mailman/out/
>total 80
>-rw-rw----  1 mailman mailman 33751 Jun  6 13:21 1149508442.772583+5e97f28df0f1ef37bdf9035a7b169e7ec632844d.pck
<snip>


If the messages in the 'out' queue are static (i.e. older ones don't
get processed and disappear), OutgoingRunner must not be running.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  7 03:10:33 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 18:10:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Separating Public and Private Archives
In-Reply-To: <200606061622.k56GMCJQ029254@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060618103303509e672fff@msapiro>

Barry Finkel wrote:

>The mailman code puts, for public archives, a pointer to the
>private directory.  This will prevent public access to the private
>archives if the archives are on a traditional Unix file system.
>I am experimenting with placing the archives in the Andrew File
>System (AFS), where access is controlled by access control lists.
>In AFS, a non-privileged user can see the private archives.
>
>Is there an easy way to change the mailman behavior so that the 
>public archives are placed into their own directory and are not
>symbolic links to the private directory?  Thanks.

No, there isn't, but consider that even though the web server would
theoritically have access to the private archives, how would a user
access them? The 'pipermail' url is an alias to the symlink in the
archives/public/ directory and the symlink doesn't exist for a private
archive so the pipermail url won't work.

Direct access to the archives/private/ directory is through the
'private' cgi-bin wrapper and script which requires user authorization.

Thus, the only way to access a private archive without authorization is
to craft a URL (presumably a pipermail URL with some /../ directories
in it, but maybe something else) that will do it. I won't say it's not
possible to make this work with modern web servers/browsers, but I've
tried, and I can't.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From he at reclaimedcomputers.ca  Wed Jun  7 03:21:51 2006
From: he at reclaimedcomputers.ca (Hugh Esco)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 18:21:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error: Distutils is not available or is incomplete
 for /usr/bin/python
Message-ID: <20060606182151.e7e361f3.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>

My firts attempts to build mailman on a new server are
throwing the errors shown below.  Can anyone here please
advise me what it is I'm missing?  Thanks, 

-- Hugh 

This is a Debian machine running: 

hesco at motherjones:~$ dpkg -l | grep python
ii  python         2.3.5-2        An interactive high-level
object-oriented la 

ii  python-newt    0.51.6-20      A NEWT
module for Python 

ii  python2.3      2.3.5-3sarge1  An
interactive high-level object-oriented la 

ii  python2.4      2.4.1-2        An interactive high-level
object-oriented la 

ii  python2.4-dev  2.4.1-2        Header files and a static
library for Python 

ii  python2.4-setu 0.0.1.041214-1 Python Distutils
Enhancements 

------------------------------

motherjones:/var/mm/e/el06/mailman-2.1.8# ./mm_configure.sh
loading cache ./config.cache
checking for --with-python... no
checking for python... /usr/bin/python
checking Python interpreter... /usr/bin/python
checking Python version... 2.3.5
checking that Python has a working distutils... configure:
error:

***** Distutils is not available or is incomplete
for /usr/bin/python 

***** If you installed Python from RPM (or other package
manager) 

***** be sure to install the -devel package, or
install Python 

***** from source.  See README.LINUX for
details ./mm_configure.sh: line 2:

--with-python=/usr/bin/python: No such file or
directory ./mm_configure.sh: line 3: 

--with-username=cfmm: command not found ./mm_configure.sh:
line 4: 

--with-groupname=cfmm: command not found ./mm_configure.sh:
line 5: 

--with-mail-gid=104: command not found ./mm_configure.sh:
line 6: 

--with-cgi-gid=33: command not found ./mm_configure.sh:
line 7: 

--with-mailhost=us.example.org: command not
found ./mm_configure.sh: line 8:

--with-urlhost=us.example.org: command not found

-- 
Hugh Esco 
RCK Computer Services 
http://reclaimedcomputers.ca/


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  7 03:41:43 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 18:41:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] import email addresses
In-Reply-To: <7b59d3d10606060246pa7b2687j58c6dd76d4f5f44d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060618414307092edba570@msapiro>

kim moodley wrote:
>
>I have a new mailing list. I have about 600 addresses in a excel
>
>spreadsheet.
>
>In what format should it be in to import and how do i do it .

export the addresses (and names) to a plain text file in one of the
formats described in
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.044.htp>.
Then use this text file as input to Mass Subscribe.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  7 03:48:24 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 18:48:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] WHO command reproduces only a fraction of my
	list
In-Reply-To: <056d01c689b6$823ae9b0$5600000a@muhammadpc>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060618482409592edba657@msapiro>

Muhammad Al-Massari wrote:

>WHO command reproduces only a fraction of my list


Because most of your members are hidden, probably because you've set
that as the default for ney members.

>Could any one out there advise what to do (or: not to do) to obtain the full list??!! 


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.062.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  7 05:08:05 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 20:08:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sysadmin held messages reviewer?
In-Reply-To: <1149569395.6963.72.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060620080505532edba4ae@msapiro>

Paul Wise wrote:
>
>I'm wondering if anyone on this list has written or knows of an
>interactive command-line application to allow a sysadmin on a mailman
>server to review all the held messages and subscription requests for all
>lists associated with a mailman install.

It would be fairly simple to modify cron/checkdbs to do this. You could
reduce the main loop to something like:

    for name in Utils.list_names():
        # the list must be locked in order to open the requests database
        mlist = MailList.MailList(name)
        try:
            print 'List %s -----------------' % name
            print pending_requests(mlist)
            print '\n\n'
        finally:
            mlist.Unlock()


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pabs3 at bonedaddy.net  Wed Jun  7 05:17:57 2006
From: pabs3 at bonedaddy.net (Paul Wise)
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 11:17:57 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sysadmin held messages reviewer?
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006060620080505532edba4ae@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006060620080505532edba4ae@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1149650277.5827.30.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Tue, 2006-06-06 at 20:08 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> > I'm wondering if anyone on this list has written or knows of an
> > interactive command-line application to allow a sysadmin on a mailman
> > server to review all the held messages and subscription requests for all
> > lists associated with a mailman install.
> 
> It would be fairly simple to modify cron/checkdbs to do this. You could
> reduce the main loop to something like:

Thanks for the hint, pity it isn't already implemented. Is this
something I should contribute if I implement it?

-- 
bye,
pabs

http://pabs.zip.to
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From manuel at arteryplanet.net  Wed Jun  7 05:35:56 2006
From: manuel at arteryplanet.net (ArteryPlanet.Net :: Manuel Kissoyan)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 00:35:56 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing domain name in list
Message-ID: <050101c689e3$7e2c6ce0$6401a8c0@sarna>

okie, i moved and almost everything is working ok...now, the current month 
 archives are not showing
 
Check the following:

this is from May, and it showing the messages:

 http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/2006-May/date.html
 
This is from June and is not showing any message:

 http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/2006-June/date.html

Any idea how to fis it?
 
 Thanx!




> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "ArteryPlanet.Net :: Manuel Kissoyan" <manuel at arteryplanet.net>
> To: "mailman mailing list" <mailman-users at python.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 1:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] changing domain name in list
> 
> 
>> Thanx Todd, ill give it a try.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Todd Zullinger" <tmz at pobox.com>
>> To: <mailman-users at python.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 2:28 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] changing domain name in list
>>
>>
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>
>>> ArteryPlanet.Net :: Manuel Kissoyan wrote:
>>>> I just moved an account from one server to another and then changed
>>>> the domain name, for some reason the control panel (cPanel) hasnt
>>>> changed the mailman domain name
>>>
>>> Ahhh, the beauty of control panels. :)
>>>
>>>> so i gone ahead and renamed the mailing list directory and the
>>>> archive directory with the new domain name.  Now for some reason the
>>>> confirmation email when you send a mail to the mailing list is
>>>> showing the old domain name, how i could change it?
>>>
>>> There is a script included with mailman called fix_url.py.  If you run
>>> it without any arguments, it will give you usage instructions.  This
>>> script is in the bin dir of the mailman install, which, if I recall
>>> correctly, is something like /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman in
>>> cpanel.
>>>
>>> If you don't have shell access to the server, you'll need to ask
>>> someone that does to do this for you.  You/they may find it helpful to
>>> search the archives and FAQ for this list if the usage instructions
>>> from fix_url.py aren't clear enough or don't work as expected.
>>>
>>> One wrinkle that you may run into is that cpanel modifies mailman to
>>> append the domain name to the list directory.  I'm not sure if that'll
>>> affect the fix_url.py script or not.  If it doesn't work as the usage
>>> examples show, the script might need patched.  I moved some lists from
>>> one cpanel system to another a few years ago and I can't recall if
>>> that was a problem or not.  I believe I had to manually change some
>>> variables in the config.pck files.  I try to put any experiences I
>>> have with cpanel behind me as quickly as possible.  Sorry for the hazy
>>> and vague recollections. :)
>>>
>>> Do take note of FAQ 6.11, Mailman and CPanel:
>>>
>>> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp
>>>
>>> - -- 
>>> Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
>>> ======================================================================
>>> It is easier to destroy an atomic nucleus than a prejudice.
>>>     -- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
>>>
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)
>>> Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.
>>>
>>> iG0EARECAC0FAkSFEpcmGGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucG9ib3guY29tL350bXovcGdwL3Rt
>>> ei5hc2MACgkQuv+09NZUB1qvOwCeI6UlDJsKT3rU1+yb+4R3jlGN/xwAoOMQbGkC
>>> shq9BAzOXbbpRHIn7933
>>> =Tl7a
>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>>
>>
>> 
>


From fatkinson at mishmash.com  Wed Jun  7 05:45:41 2006
From: fatkinson at mishmash.com (Fred Atkinson)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 23:45:41 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Backup of List
Message-ID: <005e01c689e4$d94bf360$c80a0a0a@mishmash>

    One of my list managers asked if there was a way to back up and restore
the email/contents of his list.

    Can you tell me how/if that can be done?

    I heard someone say that it is.

    Regards,




Fred



From jesse.solidot at gmail.com  Wed Jun  7 06:00:44 2006
From: jesse.solidot at gmail.com (Jesse Lee)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 12:00:44 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config Prob. Can't Send or Receive Mail
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606061729490396e8b0f8fd@msapiro>
References: <657728f60606052142m5cb72e9av9411f23d78f36cd6@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200606061729490396e8b0f8fd@msapiro>
Message-ID: <41483dbd0606062100m13b2fb1dnda7d4236184cd7d1@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, I have consulted both Mailman's installation manual and exim.org's
guide, So some macro names are hybrid. I've corrected them now using exim
site's guide.

But still have other problem, can't send mail to list, it return to sender
and got a message below:

This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.
--------------------
A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:

  mylist at lists.mysite.org <slash-chinese at lists.solidot.org>
   local delivery failed

------ This is a copy of the message, including all the headers. ------

Return-path: ......
--------------------

What's wrong here?

Thanks!

On 6/7/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Jesse Lee wrote:
> >
> >I have MAILMAN_HOME = ... in my exim main configuration file, changed to
> >MM_HOME = ...
> >But maybe it also has other problems, when sending mail to list, mailman
> >send back and says local delivery failed. I am checking now.
>
>
> The Mailman installation manual uses MAILMAN_* macro names. The
> instructions at <http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html#exconf> use
> MM_* macro names.
>
> It looks like you have a hybrid. Use the instructions on the exim site.
> They are mostly the same in effect, but the exim site has a couple of
> other things correct which are not complete in the Mailman
> installation manual.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  7 06:40:14 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 21:40:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing domain name in list
In-Reply-To: <050101c689e3$7e2c6ce0$6401a8c0@sarna>
Message-ID: <PC174020060606214014061570abf095@msapiro>

ArteryPlanet.Net :: Manuel Kissoyan wrote:

>okie, i moved and almost everything is working ok...now, the current month 
> archives are not showing
> 
>Check the following:
>
>this is from May, and it showing the messages:
>
> http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/2006-May/date.html
> 
>This is from June and is not showing any message:
>
> http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/2006-June/date.html
>
>Any idea how to fis it?


You could probably "fix" June, but it depends on what the issue is.
I.e. what do you see when you go to the June link? Is there an
archives/private/mercedes_okiebenz.com/2006-June directory?, etc.

If this weren't cPanel, I'd say probably the 'best' way to fix it is to
make sure you've moved the
archives/private/mercedes.mbox/mercedes.mbox file and then run
"bin/arch --wipe mercedes" which will rebuild the entire HTML archive
including a few embedded absolute URLs that reference the old host.
Given that it is cPanel, I don't know what names would be 'mercedes'
and what names would be 'mercedes_okiebenz.com' and what other things
might go wrong in that process.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  7 06:51:23 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 21:51:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config Prob. Can't Send or Receive Mail
In-Reply-To: <41483dbd0606062100m13b2fb1dnda7d4236184cd7d1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606062151230115b107c38a@msapiro>

Jesse Lee wrote:
>
>Yes, I have consulted both Mailman's installation manual and exim.org's
>guide, So some macro names are hybrid. I've corrected them now using exim
>site's guide.
>
>But still have other problem, can't send mail to list, it return to sender
>and got a message below:
>
>This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.
>--------------------
>A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
>recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:
>
>  mylist at lists.mysite.org <slash-chinese at lists.solidot.org>
>   local delivery failed
>
>------ This is a copy of the message, including all the headers. ------
>
>Return-path: ......
>--------------------
>
>What's wrong here?


There is still a problem in your exim.conf. Is there more detail in the
exim log (probably /var/log/exim/exim-main.log)? Without more
information, I don't know what the error is, but something is wrong in
the mailman router or transport definitions.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kalin at el.net  Wed Jun  7 06:58:10 2006
From: kalin at el.net (kalin mintchev)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 00:58:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delate all bounces....
Message-ID: <63731.24.90.32.74.1149656290.squirrel@mail.el.net>


 hi...

 i have a huge directory full of bounces and much of disk space left. i'll
be add a new disk soon but can i just wipe out all the bounce files under
bounces?!!

thanks...



From ldb at freestandards.org  Wed Jun  7 07:10:39 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 01:10:39 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] After mailing move ....
Message-ID: <44865FCF.8080105@freestandards.org>

Jun  6 22:07:21 mailserver postfix/local[3100]: D7F6F580BB: 
to=<test-list at lists.example.org>, relay=local, delay=1, status=SOFTBOUNCE 
(Command died with status 1: "/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test-list")



I keep getting the above in postfix logs and my lists are not working. Is this 
due to name of the server is "mailserver" and the name of the SMTP server is 
"lists"?

Any help would be great ...

LDB



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  7 07:15:46 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 22:15:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delate all bounces....
In-Reply-To: <63731.24.90.32.74.1149656290.squirrel@mail.el.net>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060622154607251c9f22c3@msapiro>

kalin mintchev wrote:
>
> i have a huge directory full of bounces and much of disk space left. i'll
>be add a new disk soon but can i just wipe out all the bounce files under
>bounces?!!


Are you talking about files in qfiles/bounces/ or files in data/ named
bounce-events-ppppp.pck?

If the former, these should be processed and deleted by BounceRunner
which it would seem is not running.

If the latter, they are all orphaned and can be removed except for the
one if any that's less than 15 minutes old and has ppppp equal to the
pid of the current BounceRunner.

See the Mailman 2.1.x information in sections 1 and 5 of
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  7 07:17:32 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 22:17:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Backup of List
In-Reply-To: <005e01c689e4$d94bf360$c80a0a0a@mishmash>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060622173207252fb1b115@msapiro>

Fred Atkinson wrote:

>    One of my list managers asked if there was a way to back up and restore
>the email/contents of his list.


archives/private/listname* and lists/listname.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ldb at freestandards.org  Wed Jun  7 07:18:20 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 01:18:20 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] After mailing move ....
In-Reply-To: <44865FCF.8080105@freestandards.org>
References: <44865FCF.8080105@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <4486619C.3090603@freestandards.org>

Lawrence Bowie wrote:
> Jun  6 22:07:21 mailserver postfix/local[3100]: D7F6F580BB: 
> to=<test-list at lists.example.org>, relay=local, delay=1, status=SOFTBOUNCE 
> (Command died with status 1: "/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test-list")
> 
> 
> 
> I keep getting the above in postfix logs and my lists are not working. Is this 
> due to name of the server is "mailserver" and the name of the SMTP server is 
> "lists"?
> 
> Any help would be great ...
> 
> LDB
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ldb%40freestandards.org
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 
> 

Clearly a path problem .. nevermind ..

Thanks for the disk space,

LDB



From jesse.solidot at gmail.com  Wed Jun  7 07:21:39 2006
From: jesse.solidot at gmail.com (Jesse Lee)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:21:39 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config Prob. Can't Send or Receive Mail
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606062151230115b107c38a@msapiro>
References: <41483dbd0606062100m13b2fb1dnda7d4236184cd7d1@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200606062151230115b107c38a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <41483dbd0606062221k4970035djf73bb7a59568f37d@mail.gmail.com>

When I sent a mail to list, the exim mainlog showed below:
-----------------
2006-06-07 05:15:27 1FnqO7-0002oA-5V <= mymail at gmail.com H=(
squid2.vmmatrix.net) [10.0.8.2] P=esmtp S=1708 id=
41483dbd0606062215h60225a8eqd3516cf6985219ca at mail.gmail.com
2006-06-07 05:15:27 1FnqO7-0002oA-5V **
mylist at lists.mysite.orgR=mailman_router T=mailman_transport: Child
process of mailman_transport
transport returned 2 from command: /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman
2006-06-07 05:15:27 1FnqO7-0002oF-CX <= <> R=1FnqO7-0002oA-5V U=Debian-exim
P=local S=2554
2006-06-07 05:15:27 1FnqO7-0002oA-5V Completed
2006-06-07 05:15:36 1FnqO7-0002oF-CX => mymail at gmail.com R=dnslookup
T=remote_smtp H=gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com [64.233.163.114]
2006-06-07 05:15:36 1FnqO7-0002oF-CX Completed
-----------------


On 6/7/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Jesse Lee wrote:
> >
> >Yes, I have consulted both Mailman's installation manual and exim.org's
> >guide, So some macro names are hybrid. I've corrected them now using exim
> >site's guide.
> >
> >But still have other problem, can't send mail to list, it return to
> sender
> >and got a message below:
> >
> >This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.
> >--------------------
> >A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
> >recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:
> >
> >  mylist at lists.mysite.org <slash-chinese at lists.solidot.org>
> >   local delivery failed
> >
> >------ This is a copy of the message, including all the headers. ------
> >
> >Return-path: ......
> >--------------------
> >
> >What's wrong here?
>
>
> There is still a problem in your exim.conf. Is there more detail in the
> exim log (probably /var/log/exim/exim-main.log)? Without more
> information, I don't know what the error is, but something is wrong in
> the mailman router or transport definitions.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  7 07:27:01 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 22:27:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] After mailing move ....
In-Reply-To: <44865FCF.8080105@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060622270109282fb1b1c1@msapiro>

Lawrence Bowie wrote:

>Jun  6 22:07:21 mailserver postfix/local[3100]: D7F6F580BB: 
>to=<test-list at lists.example.org>, relay=local, delay=1, status=SOFTBOUNCE 
>(Command died with status 1: "/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test-list")
>
>
>
>I keep getting the above in postfix logs and my lists are not working. Is this 
>due to name of the server is "mailserver" and the name of the SMTP server is 
>"lists"?


No.

The wrapper /var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman is dying with status 1. The
programmed exits for Mailman detected errors are all status >=2. This
could be a permissions issue or something else.

If you have a 'standard' Postfix/Mailman integration, the above command
("/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test-list") came from an aliases
(and aliases.db) file group owned by mailman. This means you should be
able to reproduce the error in a command shell with the commands

su mailman
/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test-list < /dev/null

That may help you debug further.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  7 07:32:01 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 22:32:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sysadmin held messages reviewer?
In-Reply-To: <1149650277.5827.30.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060622320109432fb1b1d0@msapiro>

Paul Wise wrote:
>
>Thanks for the hint, pity it isn't already implemented. Is this
>something I should contribute if I implement it?


Sure. Post it as a patch or possibly as an implemented feature request
at <http://sourceforge.net/projects/mailman>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ldb at freestandards.org  Wed Jun  7 07:46:50 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 01:46:50 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix-to-mail.py
Message-ID: <4486684A.70509@freestandards.org>

Anyone out there using the above script on SuSE 10.0 to protect
their mailing lists? I keep getting the below errors after the mailing lists move.


D67F4580B8     2239 Tue Jun  6 22:38:58  ldb at example.org
(temporary failure. Command output: exceptions.OSError [Errno 2] No such file or 
directory Line 122)
                                          test-list at lists.example.org




From ldb at freestandards.org  Wed Jun  7 07:53:15 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 01:53:15 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix-to-mail.py
In-Reply-To: <4486684A.70509@freestandards.org>
References: <4486684A.70509@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <448669CB.5010600@freestandards.org>

Lawrence Bowie wrote:
> Anyone out there using the above script on SuSE 10.0 to protect
> their mailing lists? I keep getting the below errors after the mailing lists move.
> 
> 
> D67F4580B8     2239 Tue Jun  6 22:38:58  ldb at example.org
> (temporary failure. Command output: exceptions.OSError [Errno 2] No such file or 
> directory Line 122)
>                                           test-list at lists.example.org
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ldb%40freestandards.org
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 
> 

This is bad .. I am answering my questions .. OK here is what I discovered ..

On SuSE 10.0, /var/lib/mailman does contain directory called mail/ so I had
to create a soft link, "ln -s /usr/lib/mailman/mail" and that does the trick.

Is there anything else that maybe missing??

Thanks,

LDB



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Jun  7 07:34:56 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 00:34:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sysadmin held messages reviewer?
In-Reply-To: <1149650277.5827.30.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <PC17402006060620080505532edba4ae@msapiro>
	<1149650277.5827.30.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <p06200715c0ac155982bd@[10.0.1.210]>

At 11:17 AM +0800 2006-06-07, Paul Wise wrote:

>>  > I'm wondering if anyone on this list has written or knows of an
>>  > interactive command-line application to allow a sysadmin on a mailman
>>  > server to review all the held messages and subscription requests for all
>>  > lists associated with a mailman install.
>>
>>  It would be fairly simple to modify cron/checkdbs to do this. You could
>>  reduce the main loop to something like:
>
>  Thanks for the hint, pity it isn't already implemented. Is this
>  something I should contribute if I implement it?

	There is definitely a dearth of good command-line site/list admin 
tools available in the current version of Mailman.  There are some 
basic tools that operate at a very low level, but not really much 
that let you quickly plow through a large list.

	At least, not without requiring a web browser and some scripts to 
cut down the standard Mailman web interface to something that is more 
manageable.  But then those tools have the same dependency on the web 
server as the regular GUI admin tools, and don't really help when the 
system is so bogged down that the web server is more of a hindrance 
than a help.


	Please, do feel free to contribute any command-line tools that 
you may develop.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From shieldfire at gmail.com  Wed Jun  7 07:59:04 2006
From: shieldfire at gmail.com (Martin S)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 07:59:04 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] posting non-members
Message-ID: <7ad4c500606062259l79a3b5d4mccaff52c53d0fc61@mail.gmail.com>

>From time to time I get mail from non-members that should be able to post to
the list.
In the "held mail dialog" I added one of them to a filter allowing her to
post  - where can I edit this filter?
I've looked through the main admin site for the list and can't find it.
Perhaps I'm missing the bleedin obvious?


Regards,

Martin S


From kalin at el.net  Wed Jun  7 08:14:26 2006
From: kalin at el.net (kalin mintchev)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 02:14:26 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delate all bounces....
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006060622154607251c9f22c3@msapiro>
References: <63731.24.90.32.74.1149656290.squirrel@mail.el.net>
	<PC17402006060622154607251c9f22c3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <58746.24.90.32.74.1149660866.squirrel@mail.el.net>


>
> Are you talking about files in qfiles/bounces/ or files in data/ named
> bounce-events-ppppp.pck?

the former. i don't see the BounceRunner in the mailman processes and will
start it through mailmanctl but i remember reading somewhere that that
daemon should run every 15 min?!?  by default?!

the latter are all from last year so they'll be all gone... pretty big
too....

thanks....



From kalin at el.net  Wed Jun  7 08:26:49 2006
From: kalin at el.net (kalin mintchev)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 02:26:49 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delate all bounces....
In-Reply-To: <58746.24.90.32.74.1149660866.squirrel@mail.el.net>
References: <63731.24.90.32.74.1149656290.squirrel@mail.el.net>
	<PC17402006060622154607251c9f22c3@msapiro>
	<58746.24.90.32.74.1149660866.squirrel@mail.el.net>
Message-ID: <65362.24.90.32.74.1149661609.squirrel@mail.el.net>


> the former. i don't see the BounceRunner in the mailman processes and will
> start it through mailmanctl but i remember reading somewhere that that
> daemon should run every 15 min?!?  by default?!

ok. i did restart the daemons. but is till don't see BounceRunner in the
ps list....

after getting rid of all the "orphaned" files i have a bit more space
available but it'll be nice to get rid of those bounces too....



From he at reclaimedcomputers.ca  Wed Jun  7 11:57:00 2006
From: he at reclaimedcomputers.ca (Hugh Esco)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 02:57:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need bin/newlist to notify but not prompt
Message-ID: <20060607025700.4b7d5681.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>

I'm building a script to automate the installation of
multiple instances of mailman.  I need the bin/newlist to
complete its work without me answering a prompt I'll never
see, but still notify the administrator of the new list
that it has been created and is working.  

bin/newlist -q/--quiet
Normally the administrator is notified by email (after a
prompt) that their list has been created.  This option
suppresses the prompt and notification.

Is there any way to get what I'm looking for without
hacking on the python code underneath? 

-- 
Hugh Esco 
RCK Computer Services 
http://reclaimedcomputers.ca/


From he at reclaimedcomputers.ca  Wed Jun  7 11:57:20 2006
From: he at reclaimedcomputers.ca (Hugh Esco)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 02:57:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error: Distutils is not available or is
 incomplete for /usr/bin/python
In-Reply-To: <20060606182151.e7e361f3.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
References: <20060606182151.e7e361f3.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
Message-ID: <20060607025720.8c93eb7e.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>

That's a never mind.  
I uninstalled the python 2.4 packages and reinstalled
everything as 2.3 and its now running w/o errors, through
that step. 

Thanks anyway, 
-- Hugh

On Tue, 6 Jun 2006 18:21:51 -0700
Hugh Esco <he at reclaimedcomputers.ca> wrote:

> My firts attempts to build mailman on a new server are
> throwing the errors shown below.  Can anyone here please
> advise me what it is I'm missing?  Thanks, 
> 
> -- Hugh 
> 
> This is a Debian machine running: 
> 
> hesco at motherjones:~$ dpkg -l | grep python
> ii  python         2.3.5-2        An interactive high-level
> object-oriented la 
> 
> ii  python-newt    0.51.6-20      A NEWT
> module for Python 
> 
> ii  python2.3      2.3.5-3sarge1  An
> interactive high-level object-oriented la 
> 
> ii  python2.4      2.4.1-2        An interactive high-level
> object-oriented la 
> 
> ii  python2.4-dev  2.4.1-2        Header files and a static
> library for Python 
> 
> ii  python2.4-setu 0.0.1.041214-1 Python Distutils
> Enhancements 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> motherjones:/var/mm/e/el06/mailman-2.1.8# ./mm_configure.sh
> loading cache ./config.cache
> checking for --with-python... no
> checking for python... /usr/bin/python
> checking Python interpreter... /usr/bin/python
> checking Python version... 2.3.5
> checking that Python has a working distutils... configure:
> error:
> 
> ***** Distutils is not available or is incomplete
> for /usr/bin/python 
> 
> ***** If you installed Python from RPM (or other package
> manager) 
> 
> ***** be sure to install the -devel package, or
> install Python 
> 
> ***** from source.  See README.LINUX for
> details ./mm_configure.sh: line 2:
> 
> --with-python=/usr/bin/python: No such file or
> directory ./mm_configure.sh: line 3: 
> 
> --with-username=cfmm: command not found ./mm_configure.sh:
> line 4: 
> 
> --with-groupname=cfmm: command not found ./mm_configure.sh:
> line 5: 
> 
> --with-mail-gid=104: command not found ./mm_configure.sh:
> line 6: 
> 
> --with-cgi-gid=33: command not found ./mm_configure.sh:
> line 7: 
> 
> --with-mailhost=us.example.org: command not
> found ./mm_configure.sh: line 8:
> 
> --with-urlhost=us.example.org: command not found
> 
> -- 
> Hugh Esco 
> RCK Computer Services 
> http://reclaimedcomputers.ca/
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/he%40reclaimedcomputers.ca
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 
> 


-- 
Hugh Esco 
250-352-9361
he at reclaimedcomputers.ca
RCK Computer Services 
http://reclaimedcomputers.ca/


From clovis at agr.unicamp.br  Wed Jun  7 13:13:37 2006
From: clovis at agr.unicamp.br (Clovis Tristao)
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 08:13:37 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman doubt
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606061740340834eef047e4@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200606061740340834eef047e4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4486B4E1.3000206@agr.unicamp.br>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> If the messages in the 'out' queue are static (i.e. older ones don't
> get processed and disappear), OutgoingRunner must not be running.
>
>   
# ps -ef | grep -i qrunner | grep -v grep
mailman   3960  3955  0 07:58 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   3961  3955  0 07:58 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   3962  3955  0 07:58 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   3963  3955  0 07:58 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   3964  3955  0 07:58 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   3965  3955  0 07:58 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   3966  3955  0 07:58 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   3967  3955  0 07:58 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s

When stop mailman service, the messages in /var/spool/mailman/out disappear.
Start the mailman, appear any messages(03) with date 02/06/2006 and 02 
messages from 05/06/2006.

What's happening?
> See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>
>   
I follow this  FAQ and  nothing wrong.

One of the list is delaying 02 hours to deliver the messages, and is 
exactly this that has the messages of 02/06/2006 and 05/06/2006 in the 
dir /var/spool/mailman/out.

Any ideia ?

Thanks a lot,

Cl?vis

-- 
Clovis Tristao - UNICAMP/Faculdade de Engenharia Agricola
Administrador de Redes - Secao de Informatica (SINFO)
E-mail: clovis at agr.unicamp.br http://www.agr.unicamp.br
Fone(0xx19) 37881031-37881038 ou FAX(55xx19) 37881005/37881010



From danielbk at ornl.gov  Wed Jun  7 16:21:03 2006
From: danielbk at ornl.gov (Daniel, Barry K.)
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 10:21:03 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Sendmail debugging questions
References: <890ECEBADF00794ABC9C94752F4C0CEB01D143D8@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>
	<4484723F.1060806@value.net>
Message-ID: <890ECEBADF00794ABC9C94752F4C0CEBB08A6C@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>

My email to the teslist at domain.gov is still not getting to the users.  Some background: testlist has 4 members (dud1, dud2, dud3, dud4), Mailman and Sendmail are on domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, Sun Messenger is on domainmta1.domainpriv.gov.  The domainmta1 server has access to the internet, the domainwcs1 server does not.  Sun Messenger uses LDAP entries for the testlist, testlist-owner, testlist-subscribe, etc which redirects the testlist email to the domainwcs1 server.  It looks like the email gets to Mailman and Mailman sends out 4 email to the correct users but the user email addresses are not recognized or something because they bounce.  I must have some silly configuration error.  I am using /etc/aliases and I have added the appropriate aliases and executed the newaliases script.  Here are some relevent files excerpts.
 
/etc/mail/mailertable
leo.gov                 mailman:leowcs1.leopriv.gov
 
/etc/mail/virtualusertable
## Place mailing list virtual mappings here
testlist at domain.gov                        testlist
testlist-admin at domain.gov <mailto:testlist-admin at leo.gov>                   testlist-admin
testlist-bounces at domain.gov <mailto:testlist-bounces at leo.gov>                 testlist-bounces
testlist-confirm at domain.gov <mailto:testlist-confirm at leo.gov>                 testlist-confirm
testlist-join at domain.gov <mailto:testlist-join at leo.gov>                    testlist-join
testlist-leave at domain.gov <mailto:testlist-leave at leo.gov>                   testlist-leave
testlist-owner at domain.gov <mailto:testlist-owner at leo.gov>                   testlist-owner
testlist-request at domain.gov <mailto:testlist-request at leo.gov>                 testlist-request
testlist-subscribe at domain.gov <mailto:testlist-subscribe at leo.gov>               testlist-subscribe
testlist-unsubscribe at domain.gov <mailto:testlist-unsubscribe at leo.gov>             testlist-unsubscribe
##
mailman at listserv.domain.gov <mailto:mailman at listserv.leo.gov>                 mailman-owner at domain.gov <mailto:mailman-owner at leo.gov> 
mailman-owner at listserv.domain.gov <mailto:mailman-owner at listserv.leo.gov>           mailman-owner at domain.gov <mailto:mailman-owner at leo.gov> 
##
MAILER-DAEMON at listserv.domain.gov <mailto:MAILER-DAEMON at listserv.leo.gov>           mailman-owner at domain.gov <mailto:mailman-owner at leo.gov> 
postmaster at listserv.domain.gov <mailto:postmaster at listserv.leo.gov>              mailman-owner at domain.gov <mailto:mailman-owner at leo.gov> 
webmaster at listserv.domain.gov <mailto:webmaster at listserv.leo.gov>               mailman-owner at domain.gov <mailto:mailman-owner at leo.gov> 
abuse at listserv.domain.gov <mailto:abuse at listserv.leo.gov>                   sun-admin at domain.gov <mailto:sun-admin at leo.gov> 
root at listserv.domain.gov <mailto:root at listserv.leo.gov>                    sun-admin at domain.gov
 
/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py
IMAGE_LOGOS = '/mailman-icons/'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'domainmta.domainpriv.gov'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov'
MAILMAN_OWNER = 'mailman-owner@%s' %  DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST
DEFAULT_ARCHIVE = On
DEFAULT_ARCHIVE_PRIVATE = 0
DEFAULT_ARCHIVE_VOLUME_FREQUENCY = 1
DEFAULT_DIGEST_VOLUME_FREQUENCY = 1
PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_URL = '/mailman/private'
DELIVERED_BY_URL = '/mailman-icons/mailman.jpg'
DEFAULT_MAX_MESSAGE_SIZE = 0
DEFAULT_MODERATED = 1
DEFAULT_SEND_REMINDERS = 0
DEFAULT_SEND_WELCOME_MSG = 0
DEFAULT_ANONYMOUS_LIST = 1
DEFAULT_PRIVATE_ROSTER = 2
DEFAULT_DIGESTABLE = 0
VIRTUAL_HOSTS = {}
VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
add_virtualhost('domain.gov', DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

 
 
/usr/local/mailman/log/smtp
Jun 07 09:28:34 2006 (2096) <fa3eb4104181.44869c3f at domain.gov> smtp to testlist for 4 recips, completed in 0.088 seconds
Jun 07 09:28:37 2006 (2096) <mailman.0.1149686915.2092.testlist at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov <mailto:mailman.0.1149686915.2092.testlist at leowcs1.leopriv.gov> > smtp to testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.105 seconds
Jun 07 09:28:37 2006 (2096) <mailman.1.1149686915.2092.testlist at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov <mailto:mailman.1.1149686915.2092.testlist at leowcs1.leopriv.gov> > smtp to testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.068 seconds
Jun 07 09:28:37 2006 (2096) <mailman.2.1149686915.2092.testlist at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov <mailto:mailman.2.1149686915.2092.testlist at leowcs1.leopriv.gov> > smtp to testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.086 seconds
Jun 07 09:28:38 2006 (2096) <mailman.3.1149686916.2092.testlist at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov <mailto:mailman.3.1149686916.2092.testlist at leowcs1.leopriv.gov> > smtp to testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.084 seconds
Jun 07 09:28:39 2006 (2096) <mailman.4.1149686918.2092.mailman at domainmta.domainpriv.gov <mailto:mailman.4.1149686918.2092.mailman at leomta.leopriv.gov> > smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.090 seconds
Jun 07 09:28:39 2006 (2096) <mailman.5.1149686918.2092.mailman at domainmta.domainpriv.gov <mailto:mailman.5.1149686918.2092.mailman at leomta.leopriv.gov> > smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.094 seconds
Jun 07 09:28:39 2006 (2096) <mailman.6.1149686918.2092.mailman at domainmta.domainpriv.gov <mailto:mailman.6.1149686918.2092.mailman at leomta.leopriv.gov> > smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.097 seconds

 
/var/mail/maillog
Jun  7 09:28:33 domainwcs1 sendmail[4490]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSX8Z004490: from=<dud1 at domain.gov <mailto:dud1 at leo.gov> >, size=1806, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<fa3eb410418
1.44869c3f at domain.gov <mailto:1.44869c3f at leo.gov> >, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=domainmta1.domainpriv.gov [10.31.162.9]
Jun  7 09:28:33 domainwcs1 sendmail[4492]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSX8Z004490: to=<testlist at domain.gov <mailto:testlist at leo.gov> >, delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=mailma
n, pri=121806, relay=domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
Jun  7 09:28:34 domainwcs1 sendmail[4495]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSY8Z004495: from=<testlist-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov <mailto:testlist-bounces at leowcs1.leopriv.gov> >, size=2990, class=-30, nr
cpts=4, msgid=<fa3eb4104181.44869c3f at domain.gov <mailto:fa3eb4104181.44869c3f at leo.gov> >, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]
Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4499]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZYg004499: from=root, size=4698, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<200606071328.k57DSZYg
004499 at domainps.domainpriv.gov <mailto:004499 at leops.leopriv.gov> >, relay=root at localhost
Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4500]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004500: from=<root at domainps.domainpriv.gov <mailto:root at leops.leopriv.gov> >, size=4915, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<2
00606071328.k57DSZYg004499 at domainps.domainpriv.gov <mailto:00606071328.k57DSZYg004499 at leops.leopriv.gov> >, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]
Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4499]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZYg004499: to=testlist-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov <mailto:to=testlist-bounces at leowcs1.leopriv.gov> , ctladdr=root (0/1), delay=00
:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, pri=34698, relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (k57DSZ8Z004500 Message accepted for delivery
)
Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4497]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSY8Z004495: to=<dud3 at domain.gov <mailto:dud3 at leo.gov> >, delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=mailman, p
ri=266990, relay=domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4505]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZUR004505: from=root, size=4698, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<200606071328.k57DSZUR
004505 at domainps.domainpriv.gov <mailto:004505 at leops.leopriv.gov> >, relay=root at localhost
Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4506]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004506: from=<root at domainps.domainpriv.gov <mailto:root at leops.leopriv.gov> >, size=4915, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<2
00606071328.k57DSZUR004505 at domainps.domainpriv.gov <mailto:00606071328.k57DSZUR004505 at leops.leopriv.gov> >, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]
Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4505]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZUR004505: to=testlist-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov <mailto:to=testlist-bounces at leowcs1.leopriv.gov> , ctladdr=root (0/1), delay=00
:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, pri=34698, relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (k57DSZ8Z004506 Message accepted for delivery
)
Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4497]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSY8Z004495: to=<dud2 at domain.gov <mailto:dud2 at leo.gov> >, delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=mailman, p
ri=266990, relay=domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4511]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZoI004511: from=root, size=4698, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<200606071328.k57DSZoI
004511 at domainps.domainpriv.gov <mailto:004511 at leops.leopriv.gov> >, relay=root at localhost
Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4501]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004500: to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces testlist", ctladdr=<test
list-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov <mailto:list-bounces at leowcs1.leopriv.gov> > (1/0), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=35136, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4512]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004512: from=<root at domainps.domainpriv.gov <mailto:root at leops.leopriv.gov> >, size=4915, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<2
00606071328.k57DSZoI004511 at domainps.domainpriv.gov <mailto:00606071328.k57DSZoI004511 at leops.leopriv.gov> >, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]
Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4511]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZoI004511: to=testlist-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov <mailto:to=testlist-bounces at leowcs1.leopriv.gov> , ctladdr=root (0/1), delay=00
:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, pri=34698, relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (k57DSZ8Z004512 Message accepted for delivery
)
Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4497]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSY8Z004495: to=<dud1 at domain.gov <mailto:dud1 at leo.gov> >, delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=mailman, p
ri=266990, relay=domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4517]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZdU004517: from=root, size=4698, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<200606071328.k57DSZdU
004517 at domainps.domainpriv.gov <mailto:004517 at leops.domainpriv.gov> >, relay=root at localhost
Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4507]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004506: to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces testlist", ctladdr=<test
list-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov <mailto:list-bounces at leowcs1.leopriv.gov> > (1/0), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=35136, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4518]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004518: from=<root at domainps.domainpriv.gov <mailto:root at leops.leopriv.gov> >, size=4915, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<2
00606071328.k57DSZdU004517 at domainps.domainpriv.gov <mailto:00606071328.k57DSZdU004517 at leops.leopriv.gov> >, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]
Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4517]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZdU004517: to=testlist-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov <mailto:to=testlist-bounces at leowcs1.leopriv.gov> , ctladdr=root (0/1), delay=00
:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, pri=34698, relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (k57DSZ8Z004518 Message accepted for delivery
)
Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4497]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSY8Z004495: to=<dud4 at domain.gov <mailto:dud4 at leo.gov> >, delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=mailman, p
ri=266990, relay=domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4513]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004512: to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces testlist", ctladdr=<test
list-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov <mailto:list-bounces at wcs1.domainpriv.gov> > (1/0), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=35136, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
Jun  7 09:28:36 domainwcs1 sendmail[4519]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004518: to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces testlist", ctladdr=<test
list-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov <mailto:list-bounces at leowcs1.leopriv.gov> > (1/0), delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=prog, pri=35136, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent


________________________________

From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net]
Sent: Mon 6/5/2006 2:04 PM
To: Daniel, Barry K.
Cc: Patrick Bogen; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: RE: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Sendmail debugging questions



Daniel, Barry K. wrote:
> Sorry this is so late since the last update but I have been on travel.
> My attempt to send email to the Mailman mailing list is bouncing and I
> do not know why.  Here are some excerpts from some appropriate files.


What's in your aliases file? There should be 10 entries for each list
that look similar to the following excerpt for the 'mailman' list

  mailman:             "|/path/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
  mailman-admin:       "|/path/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
  mailman-bounces:     "|/path/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
  mailman-confirm:     "|/path/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
  mailman-join:        "|/path/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
  mailman-leave:       "|/path/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
  mailman-owner:       "|/path/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
  mailman-request:     "|/path/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
  mailman-subscribe:   "|/path/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
  mailman-unsubscribe: "|/path/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"

Without these, those local addresses won't be piped to Mailman.


> /usr/local/mailman/logs/smtp
>
> May 19 01:19:56 2006 (8840) <fcc2a6a24143.446d1d39 at domain.gov> smtp to
> testlist for 4 recips, completed in 0.080 seconds


This looks like an actual post was sent to 4 recipients.



> "/usr/local/mailman/logs/smtp" 56 lines, 7782 characters
>
> May 19 08:00:02 2006 (8986)
> <mailman.0.1148040001.9670.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to
> testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.101 seconds


This and all the subsequent ones look like the "nn testlist moderator
requests waiting" message sent to the testlist-owner address at 8:00
a.m. daily, but it is not being received at the testlist-owner address
and piped back to mailman for delivery to the actual owner


> /var/log/maillog
>
> Jun  5 08:00:02 domainwcs1 sendmail[3803]: [ID 801593 mail.info]
> k55C028Z003803: from=<testlist-bounces at domainmta.domainpriv.gov>,
> size=2214, class=-60,
>
> nrcpts=1,
> msgid=<mailman.0.1149508800.3782.testlist at domainmta.domainpriv.gov>,
> proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]
>
> Jun  5 08:00:02 domainwcs1 sendmail[3805]: [ID 801593 mail.info]
> k55C028Z003803: to=<testlist-owner at domainmta.domainpriv.gov>,
> delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=smtp, pri=230214,
> relay=smtp.domainpriv.gov. [10.31.162.17], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (2.5.0
> Ok.)


But it is sent somewhere - maybe /var/spool/mail/testlist-owner?

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  7 16:31:04 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 07:31:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config Prob. Can't Send or Receive Mail
In-Reply-To: <41483dbd0606062221k4970035djf73bb7a59568f37d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606070731040000518fc524@msapiro>

Jesse Lee wrote:
>
>When I sent a mail to list, the exim mainlog showed below:
>-----------------
>2006-06-07 05:15:27 1FnqO7-0002oA-5V **
>mylist at lists.mysite.orgR=mailman_router T=mailman_transport: Child
>process of mailman_transport
>transport returned 2 from command: /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman

Status 2 is a group mismatch error. I don't know why exim didn't also
return the error message in its failure notice, but basically, the
group that exim is using to invoke the wrapper
(/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman) is not the group the wrapper is
configured to expect.

The exim group is defined in exim.conf as MM_GID if you're following
http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html#exconf - default
MM_GID=mailman.

The expected group was defined by Mailman's configure --with-mail-gid
option - see <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node7.html>.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp>
for a more detailed explanation.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  7 16:43:56 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 07:43:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delate all bounces....
In-Reply-To: <65362.24.90.32.74.1149661609.squirrel@mail.el.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606070743560171518fc603@msapiro>

kalin mintchev wrote:
>
>> the former. i don't see the BounceRunner in the mailman processes and will
>> start it through mailmanctl but i remember reading somewhere that that
>> daemon should run every 15 min?!?  by default?!


That was Mailman 2.0.x. Mailman 2.1 uses the mailmanctl daemon instead.


>ok. i did restart the daemons. but is till don't see BounceRunner in the
>ps list....


Did you do this cleanly? See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.068.htp>

There is some problem with BounceRunner. What's in Mailman's qrunner
log and error log?

BTW, if those bounces in qfiles/bounces are old, you can just delete
them (one of them may be the problem). In fact, it would be a good
idea after resolving your original BounceRunner problem to just remove
the qfiles/bounces/ directory itself and let Mailman recreate it in
order to "shrink" it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  7 16:59:38 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 07:59:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need bin/newlist to notify but not prompt
In-Reply-To: <20060607025700.4b7d5681.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606070759380281518fc65f@msapiro>

Hugh Esco wrote:

>I'm building a script to automate the installation of
>multiple instances of mailman.  I need the bin/newlist to
>complete its work without me answering a prompt I'll never
>see, but still notify the administrator of the new list
>that it has been created and is working.  
>
>bin/newlist -q/--quiet
>Normally the administrator is notified by email (after a
>prompt) that their list has been created.  This option
>suppresses the prompt and notification.
>
>Is there any way to get what I'm looking for without
>hacking on the python code underneath? 


I don't think so. What you want seems reasonable and should be
available with newlist, but currently isn't.

You'll have to remove the two lines that issue the prompt and read the
response.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  7 17:05:09 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 08:05:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman doubt
In-Reply-To: <4486B4E1.3000206@agr.unicamp.br>
References: <PC1740200606061740340834eef047e4@msapiro>
	<4486B4E1.3000206@agr.unicamp.br>
Message-ID: <4486EB25.8050709@value.net>

Clovis Tristao wrote:

> # ps -ef | grep -i qrunner | grep -v grep
> mailman   3960  3955  0 07:58 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman   3961  3955  0 07:58 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman   3962  3955  0 07:58 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman   3963  3955  0 07:58 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman   3964  3955  0 07:58 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman   3965  3955  0 07:58 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman   3966  3955  0 07:58 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman   3967  3955  0 07:58 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python 
> /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s
> 
> When stop mailman service, the messages in /var/spool/mailman/out disappear.
> Start the mailman, appear any messages(03) with date 02/06/2006 and 02 
> messages from 05/06/2006.
> 
> What's happening?


I think the messages are perhaps being retried and are moving back and 
forth between the out gueue and retry queue.


> One of the list is delaying 02 hours to deliver the messages, and is 
> exactly this that has the messages of 02/06/2006 and 05/06/2006 in the 
> dir /var/spool/mailman/out.


There is some issue between Mailman and the outgoing MTA. See Mailman's 
'smtp' and 'smtp-failure' logs and the MTA logs.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Wed Jun  7 17:26:09 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 10:26:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] posting non-members
In-Reply-To: <7ad4c500606062259l79a3b5d4mccaff52c53d0fc61@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7ad4c500606062259l79a3b5d4mccaff52c53d0fc61@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606070826lc782078xaefdd8dd1d9da47b@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/7/06, Martin S <shieldfire at gmail.com> wrote:
> >From time to time I get mail from non-members that should be able to post to
> the list.
> In the "held mail dialog" I added one of them to a filter allowing her to
> post  - where can I edit this filter?

Check 'accept_these_nonmembers' on Privacy Options > Sender filters in
the Admin screen.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From Muhammad at tajdeed.net  Wed Jun  7 17:49:52 2006
From: Muhammad at tajdeed.net (Muhammad Al-Massari)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 16:49:52 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to unhide 20 000, or so, e-mails in one go
References: <PC17402006060618482409592edba657@msapiro>
Message-ID: <00de01c68a4a$04b71c40$5600000a@muhammadpc>

How to unhide 20 000, or so, e-mails in one go

Thanks very much Mark

I corrected that stupid default. But much damage is already done in the past. 

How to unhide 20 000, or so, e-mails in one go. Doing it one by one is a real NIGHTMARE!!!

(I have two other big lists too ... to be modified also!)

Muhammad Al-Massari

Muhammad at tajdeed.net


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
To: "Muhammad Al-Massari" <Muhammad at tajdeed.net>; <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 2:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] WHO command reproduces only a fraction of my list


Muhammad Al-Massari wrote:

>WHO command reproduces only a fraction of my list


Because most of your members are hidden, probably because you've set
that as the default for new  members.

>Could any one out there advise what to do (or: not to do) to obtain the full list??!! 


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.062.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lists at videonetwork.org  Wed Jun  7 19:01:10 2006
From: lists at videonetwork.org (Ben Edwards (lists))
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 18:01:10 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating configuration
Message-ID: <1149699671.6795.10.camel@localhost.localdomain>

I have managed to move mail archives by copying the mailbox file and
using:

bin/arch --wipe new-list

and exporting/bulk subscribing users works fine.

However how do I move the configuration?




From david at deltanetco.com  Wed Jun  7 19:41:25 2006
From: david at deltanetco.com (david meltzer)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:41:25 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] newbie question about how to mailman sends out bulk
	emails
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAcKyKy1EhvE+rp3gliac4eMKAAAAQAAAAGZV5HwNgdUO1CbNguKBcLgEAAAAA@deltanetco.com>

hello and thanks for reading this,
i am a computer volunteer for the goodwill rescue mission in newark,nj www.grmnewark.org

i tried to find out via the faq and list archives but i could not find an answer to the following
question.

we need to be able to send out a mail list to about 5000 donors.
our isp allows an unlimited number of outgoing emails but each email can have upto 50 email
addresses.

can i get mailman send out 100 emails with 50 users each?

can i get mailman to send out 5000 emails one by one?
if so, can i throttle the email per minute?

also, i do not need the overhead of forcing people to 'join' the group.
i want to just have some kind of flat file database with the list of people the mailing should goto.
is this doable?


thanks,
dave

------------------------------------------
and the geek shall inherit the earth
verse 0:0 from the chronicles of yoyomeltz




From clovis at agr.unicamp.br  Wed Jun  7 20:13:48 2006
From: clovis at agr.unicamp.br (Clovis Tristao)
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 15:13:48 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman doubt
In-Reply-To: <4486EB25.8050709@value.net>
References: <PC1740200606061740340834eef047e4@msapiro>
	<4486B4E1.3000206@agr.unicamp.br> <4486EB25.8050709@value.net>
Message-ID: <4487175C.4040206@agr.unicamp.br>

Hi, Mark,

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Clovis Tristao wrote:
>
> I think the messages are perhaps being retried and are moving back and 
> forth between the out gueue and retry queue.
Exactly.
>> One of the list is delaying 02 hours to deliver the messages, and is 
>> exactly this that has the messages of 02/06/2006 and 05/06/2006 in 
>> the dir /var/spool/mailman/out.
> There is some issue between Mailman and the outgoing MTA. See 
> Mailman's 'smtp' and 'smtp-failure' logs and the MTA logs.
I stop the mailman and remove the queue messages from 
/var/spool/mailman/out and /var/spool/mailman/retry, the listname come 
back function.
Restart mailman e SOLVED....

Thanks a lot,

Cl?vis


-- 
Clovis Tristao - UNICAMP/Faculdade de Engenharia Agricola
Administrador de Redes - Secao de Informatica (SINFO)
E-mail: clovis at agr.unicamp.br http://www.agr.unicamp.br
Fone(0xx19) 37881031-37881038 ou FAX(55xx19) 37881005/37881010



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Wed Jun  7 20:49:56 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:49:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] newbie question about how to mailman sends out
	bulk emails
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAcKyKy1EhvE+rp3gliac4eMKAAAAQAAAAGZV5HwNgdUO1CbNguKBcLgEAAAAA@deltanetco.com>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAcKyKy1EhvE+rp3gliac4eMKAAAAQAAAAGZV5HwNgdUO1CbNguKBcLgEAAAAA@deltanetco.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606071149v775e725bp2cb999d17f789c52@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/7/06, david meltzer <david at deltanetco.com> wrote:
> can i get mailman send out 100 emails with 50 users each?
Yes, just set SMTP_MAX_RCPTS in your mm_cfg.py to 50.

> can i get mailman to send out 5000 emails one by one?
Sure. Set SMTP_MAX_RCPTS to 1, and/or enable full personalization.

> if so, can i throttle the email per minute?
No, but your MTA can. However, that's not a mailman question.

> also, i do not need the overhead of forcing people to 'join' the group.
> i want to just have some kind of flat file database with the list of people the mailing should goto.
> is this doable?
Yes, you can mass subscribe a list of members.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Wed Jun  7 20:55:49 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:55:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating configuration
In-Reply-To: <1149699671.6795.10.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1149699671.6795.10.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606071155q339dd646yd8fd4add4416bb8c@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/7/06, Ben Edwards (lists) <lists at videonetwork.org> wrote:
> However how do I move the configuration?

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.004.htp

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Wed Jun  7 20:57:00 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 13:57:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to unhide 20 000, or so, e-mails in one go
In-Reply-To: <00de01c68a4a$04b71c40$5600000a@muhammadpc>
References: <PC17402006060618482409592edba657@msapiro>
	<00de01c68a4a$04b71c40$5600000a@muhammadpc>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606071157y6dbd4e27u1e145e5301337bbc@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/7/06, Muhammad Al-Massari <Muhammad at tajdeed.net> wrote:
> How to unhide 20 000, or so, e-mails in one go

If you have shell access, you can use a withlist script.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Wed Jun  7 21:04:49 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:04:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need bin/newlist to notify but not prompt
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606070759380281518fc65f@msapiro>
References: <20060607025700.4b7d5681.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
	<PC1740200606070759380281518fc65f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606071204h430cce61ue44330d5bd3c036e@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/7/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> >Is there any way to get what I'm looking for without
> >hacking on the python code underneath?
>
>
> I don't think so. What you want seems reasonable and should be
> available with newlist, but currently isn't.
>

Ask, and ye shall receive. A patch is attached, and I'll open up an
RFE and attach it there, as well. Adds the '-a/--automate' option to
not prompt, but still notify.


-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From mcnutt at utk.edu  Wed Jun  7 21:31:00 2006
From: mcnutt at utk.edu (McNutt, William R)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 15:31:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Address Does Not Exist
Message-ID: <6A5CE13D731DE249BC61CB8C5C474B0A0566531C@UTKFSVS1.utk.tennessee.edu>

This is a new one on me:
I have created a new list (cmats-oc at mysite.edu).  
I've checked my aliases file and run newaliases.   When members or
non-members 
send e-mail to the list, they get the following message:

Bill

Your message did not reach some or all of the intended recipients.

      Subject:	Test
      Sent:	6/7/2006 2:28 PM

The following recipient(s) could not be reached:

      cmats-oc at cls.coe.utk.edu on 6/7/2006 2:28 PM
            The e-mail account does not exist at the organization this
message was sent to.  Check the e-mail address, or contact the recipient
directly to find out the correct address.
            <utkfsvs1.utk.tennessee.edu #5.1.1 smtp;550 5.1.1
<cmatsoc at cls.coe.utk.edu>... User unknown>


Bill McNutt
CTO
UT Center for Literacy Studies
http://cls.coe.utk.edu




From jesse.solidot at gmail.com  Wed Jun  7 22:01:19 2006
From: jesse.solidot at gmail.com (Jesse Lee)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 04:01:19 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config Prob. Can't Send or Receive Mail
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606070731040000518fc524@msapiro>
References: <41483dbd0606062221k4970035djf73bb7a59568f37d@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200606070731040000518fc524@msapiro>
Message-ID: <41483dbd0606071301m4477374en53d08c3a11b7e0b6@mail.gmail.com>

When checked mail.log I found this message below:

Jun  7 10:30:18 solidot Mailman mail-wrapper: Group mismatch error.  Mailman
expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group "nobody", but the
system's mail server executed the mail script as group "mailman".  Try
tweaking the mail server to run the script as group "nobody", or re-run
configure,  providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=mailman'.

Just like you said the mail-gid mismatch. I've re run configure and changed
mail-gid to 'mailman', now mailman works fine.

Thanks for your help!

Jesse

On 6/7/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Jesse Lee wrote:
> >
> >When I sent a mail to list, the exim mainlog showed below:
> >-----------------
> >2006-06-07 05:15:27 1FnqO7-0002oA-5V **
> >mylist at lists.mysite.orgR=mailman_router T=mailman_transport: Child
> >process of mailman_transport
> >transport returned 2 from command: /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman
>
> Status 2 is a group mismatch error. I don't know why exim didn't also
> return the error message in its failure notice, but basically, the
> group that exim is using to invoke the wrapper
> (/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman) is not the group the wrapper is
> configured to expect.
>
> The exim group is defined in exim.conf as MM_GID if you're following
> http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html#exconf - default
> MM_GID=mailman.
>
> The expected group was defined by Mailman's configure --with-mail-gid
> option - see <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node7.html>.
>
> See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp>
> for a more detailed explanation.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Jun  8 01:55:00 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 18:55:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need bin/newlist to notify but not prompt
In-Reply-To: <20060607163355.f5dc5f76.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
References: <20060607025700.4b7d5681.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
	<PC1740200606070759380281518fc65f@msapiro>
	<6fbe3da00606071204h430cce61ue44330d5bd3c036e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060607163355.f5dc5f76.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606071655he7dc999pe663fa85a4eb1c49@mail.gmail.com>

It's not a .tar.bz2, just a .bz2

cd foo/bin (wherever mailman's scripts, i.e. newlist, reside)
bunzip2 ~/newlist-auto.patch.bz2
patch -p1 < ~/newlist-auto.patch.bz2

Season to taste.

- Patrick Bogen

On 6/7/06, Hugh Esco <he at reclaimedcomputers.ca> wrote:
> Mr. Bogen:
>
> That sounds like just the thing I need.
>
> However my tar doesn't like your bz2.
>
> It look fairly short.  Do you suppose you could send this
> to me in plain text?
>
> Thanks,
> -- Hugh
>
> tar xjvf newlist-auto.patch.bz2
> tar: Archive contains obsolescent base-64 headers
> tar: This does not look like a tar archive
> tar: Skipping to next header
> tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors
>
>
>
> On Wed, 7 Jun 2006 14:04:49 -0500
> "Patrick Bogen" <pdbogen at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On 6/7/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> > > >Is there any way to get what I'm looking for without
> > > >hacking on the python code underneath?
> > >
> > >
> > > I don't think so. What you want seems reasonable and should be
> > > available with newlist, but currently isn't.
> > >
> >
> > Ask, and ye shall receive. A patch is attached, and I'll open up an
> > RFE and attach it there, as well. Adds the '-a/--automate' option to
> > not prompt, but still notify.
> >
> >
> > --
> > - Patrick Bogen
> >
>
>
> --
> Hugh Esco
> 250-352-9361
> he at reclaimedcomputers.ca
> RCK Computer Services
> http://reclaimedcomputers.ca/


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Jun  8 02:00:36 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 19:00:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Address Does Not Exist
In-Reply-To: <6A5CE13D731DE249BC61CB8C5C474B0A0566531C@UTKFSVS1.utk.tennessee.edu>
References: <6A5CE13D731DE249BC61CB8C5C474B0A0566531C@UTKFSVS1.utk.tennessee.edu>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606071700r79723196le83a5abc46f1c45c@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/7/06, McNutt, William R <mcnutt at utk.edu> wrote:
> Your message did not reach some or all of the intended recipients.
>
>       Subject:  Test
>       Sent:     6/7/2006 2:28 PM
>
> The following recipient(s) could not be reached:
>
>       cmats-oc at cls.coe.utk.edu on 6/7/2006 2:28 PM
>             The e-mail account does not exist at the organization this
> message was sent to.  Check the e-mail address, or contact the recipient
> directly to find out the correct address.
>             <utkfsvs1.utk.tennessee.edu #5.1.1 smtp;550 5.1.1
> <cmatsoc at cls.coe.utk.edu>... User unknown>

Hmm. Further along in the bounce mail, it says that
'cmatsoc at cls.coe.utk.edu' is unknown, although the email was sent to
cmats-oc at . Is this a typo, or is the MTA doing something weird with
hyphens?

Assuming that's just a typo...

Do other lists on this box work? Are you sure the aliases are in the
right place (and are you sure your MTA is configured to make use of
them?)

A bad alias configuration is at the very top of my list for this
issue. There's really no other reason this should be failing, since
Mailman itself cannot generate such an error (as far as I know.)

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  8 05:19:26 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 20:19:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to unhide 20 000, or so, e-mails in one go
In-Reply-To: <00de01c68a4a$04b71c40$5600000a@muhammadpc>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060720192605152bc8b03d@msapiro>

Muhammad Al-Massari
>
>How to unhide 20 000, or so, e-mails in one go. Doing it one by one is a real NIGHTMARE!!!
>
>(I have two other big lists too ... to be modified also!)


Patrick has already replied that you can do this with bin/withlist if
you have shell access to your Mailman installation, but I suspect you
don't or you'd be using bin/list_members in the first place, and this
wouldn't be an issue.

Assuming you don't have shell access, I'd use the
mailman-subscribers.py script referred to in the FAQ I mentioned
before -
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.062.htp>
- to obtain a .csv repersentation of the admin Membership list pages
and then import that into a spreadsheet and make a list of those
member addresses that are 'hidden'. Then I'd go to
<http://starship.python.net/crew/jwt/mailman/#throughtheweb> (also
mentioned in the FAQ) and get Jim Tittsler's unhide.py script and run
it with the appropriate modifications to the URL and list password and
the hidden member list as input.

Both these scripts will be slow for a 20,000 member list because of the
sheer volume of http transactions involved, but if you don't have
direct shell access to the Mailman installation, it beats doing it by
hand.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  8 05:35:41 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 20:35:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating configuration
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00606071155q339dd646yd8fd4add4416bb8c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060720354107342bc8b127@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:

>On 6/7/06, Ben Edwards (lists) <lists at videonetwork.org> wrote:
>> However how do I move the configuration?
>
>http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.004.htp


Unfortunately, this FAQ is in need of some revision/expansion (it's on
my list, but if anyone wants to take a stab at it, please do).

You have two choices to move the config. Either write the old config
with bin/config_list -o and import it to the new list with
bin/config_list -i, or (assuming you don't have a custom member
adaptor that stores member info outside of the list object) move the
list config, membership, passwords, member options, etc. all at once
simply by moving lists/<listname>/config.pck (and maybe any custom
templates in lists/<listname>/<lang>/).

If the source is pre-2.1.0, move the config.db, and if there's a
config.pck and a config.pck.last in the new lists/<listname>/
directory, remove them or move them aside or the config.db will be
ignored.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ldb at freestandards.org  Thu Jun  8 05:35:52 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 23:35:52 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing URLs in mailman after move
Message-ID: <44879B18.4030504@freestandards.org>

In moving from Debian to SuSE 10.0, the mailing lists' links like,

http://lists.example.org/cgi-bin/mailman/admindb/test-list

do not work anymore because the actual link on the new server is

http://lists.example.org/mailman/admindb/test-list


I can take care of this via apache but there has to be a way to
do it via mailman.

Thanks,

LDB



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  8 05:49:51 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 20:49:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing URLs in mailman after move
In-Reply-To: <44879B18.4030504@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060720495106871bb57002@msapiro>

Lawrence Bowie wrote:

>In moving from Debian to SuSE 10.0, the mailing lists' links like,
>
>http://lists.example.org/cgi-bin/mailman/admindb/test-list
>
>do not work anymore because the actual link on the new server is
>
>http://lists.example.org/mailman/admindb/test-list
>
>
>I can take care of this via apache but there has to be a way to
>do it via mailman.


If necessary (probably shouldn't be), set the correct
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN in mm_cfg.py.

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'

is the default, and that should be correct.

Then run fix_url on all the lists - see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.069.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  8 06:10:26 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 21:10:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need bin/newlist to notify but not prompt
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00606071204h430cce61ue44330d5bd3c036e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606072110260343f2cbaaf1@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:
>
>Ask, and ye shall receive. A patch is attached, and I'll open up an
>RFE and attach it there, as well. Adds the '-a/--automate' option to
>not prompt, but still notify.


Cool! Thank you.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  8 06:17:45 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 21:17:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Address Does Not Exist
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00606071700r79723196le83a5abc46f1c45c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060721174505468e70f5ef@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:

>On 6/7/06, McNutt, William R <mcnutt at utk.edu> wrote:
<snip>
>>             <utkfsvs1.utk.tennessee.edu #5.1.1 smtp;550 5.1.1


Is utkfsvs1.utk.tennessee.edu the MTA on the Mailman machine or is it
some MX MTA further upstream that also has to be told about the
cmats-oc at cls.coe.utk.edu address?


>A bad alias configuration is at the very top of my list for this
>issue. There's really no other reason this should be failing, since
>Mailman itself cannot generate such an error (as far as I know.)


Right. That bounce came from an MTA - Mailman never saw the post.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  8 08:04:23 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 23:04:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Sendmail debugging questions
In-Reply-To: <890ECEBADF00794ABC9C94752F4C0CEBB08A6C@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>
References: <890ECEBADF00794ABC9C94752F4C0CEB01D143D8@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>
	<4484723F.1060806@value.net>
	<890ECEBADF00794ABC9C94752F4C0CEBB08A6C@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>
Message-ID: <4487BDE7.3000405@value.net>

Daniel, Barry K. wrote:
>  
> /usr/local/mailman/log/smtp
> Jun 07 09:28:34 2006 (2096) <fa3eb4104181.44869c3f at domain.gov> smtp to testlist for 4 recips, completed in 0.088 seconds

Your post was sent to 4 recipients.


> Jun 07 09:28:37 2006 (2096) <mailman.0.1149686915.2092.testlist at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov> smtp to testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.105 seconds


Note: in the above and in what follows I have tried to remove (for 
readability) the 
<mailto:mailman.0.1149686915.2092.testlist at leowcs1.leopriv.gov> and 
similar 'mailto:' links added by your MUA.

3 seconds later a single, mailman generated message was sent - maybe a 
notice to the list owner?


> Jun 07 09:28:37 2006 (2096) <mailman.1.1149686915.2092.testlist at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov> smtp to testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.068 seconds


and another


> Jun 07 09:28:37 2006 (2096) <mailman.2.1149686915.2092.testlist at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov> smtp to testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.086 seconds


and another


> Jun 07 09:28:38 2006 (2096) <mailman.3.1149686916.2092.testlist at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov> smtp to testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.084 seconds


and another


> Jun 07 09:28:39 2006 (2096) <mailman.4.1149686918.2092.mailman at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.090 seconds


and another


> Jun 07 09:28:39 2006 (2096) <mailman.5.1149686918.2092.mailman at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.094 seconds


and another


> Jun 07 09:28:39 2006 (2096) <mailman.6.1149686918.2092.mailman at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.097 seconds


and another for a total of 7 Mailman generated messages, each to a 
single recipient?


> /var/mail/maillog
> Jun  7 09:28:33 domainwcs1 sendmail[4490]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSX8Z004490: from=<dud1 at domain.gov>, size=1806, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<fa3eb410418
> 1.44869c3f at domain.gov>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=domainmta1.domainpriv.gov [10.31.162.9]


The original post is received by the MTA


> Jun  7 09:28:33 domainwcs1 sendmail[4492]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSX8Z004490: to=<testlist at domain.gov>, delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=mailma
> n, pri=121806, relay=domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent


and delivered to testlist at domain.gov


> Jun  7 09:28:34 domainwcs1 sendmail[4495]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSY8Z004495: from=<testlist-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov>, size=2990, class=-30, nr
> cpts=4, msgid=<fa3eb4104181.44869c3f at domain.gov>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]


The post is received from Mailman for 4 recipients.


> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4499]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZYg004499: from=root, size=4698, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<200606071328.k57DSZYg
> 004499 at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, relay=root at localhost


Some other message is received by the MTA from root at localhost


> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4500]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004500: from=<root at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, size=4915, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<2
> 00606071328.k57DSZYg004499 at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]


and relayed to localhost


> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4499]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZYg004499: to=testlist-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, ctladdr=root (0/1), delay=00
> :00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, pri=34698, relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (k57DSZ8Z004500 Message accepted for delivery
> )


and accepted for delivery to testlist-bounces, so it appears to be a 
bounce (last 3 entries)


> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4497]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSY8Z004495: to=<dud3 at domain.gov>, delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=mailman, p
> ri=266990, relay=domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent


The original message for 4 recipients (k57DSY8Z004495) is sent to 
dud3 at domain.gov (but this may refer to the bounce)


> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4505]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZUR004505: from=root, size=4698, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<200606071328.k57DSZUR
> 004505 at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, relay=root at localhost
> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4506]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004506: from=<root at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, size=4915, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<2
> 00606071328.k57DSZUR004505 at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]
> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4505]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZUR004505: to=testlist-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, ctladdr=root (0/1), delay=00
> :00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, pri=34698, relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (k57DSZ8Z004506 Message accepted for delivery
> )


And another bounce relayed and accepted for delivery


> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4497]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSY8Z004495: to=<dud2 at domain.gov>, delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=mailman, p
> ri=266990, relay=domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent


And another 'Sent' to dud2 at domain.gov


> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4511]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZoI004511: from=root, size=4698, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<200606071328.k57DSZoI
> 004511 at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, relay=root at localhost
> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4501]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004500: to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces testlist", ctladdr=<test
> list-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov> (1/0), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=35136, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4512]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004512: from=<root at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, size=4915, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<2
> 00606071328.k57DSZoI004511 at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]
> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4511]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZoI004511: to=testlist-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, ctladdr=root (0/1), delay=00
> :00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, pri=34698, relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (k57DSZ8Z004512 Message accepted for delivery
> )
> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4497]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSY8Z004495: to=<dud1 at domain.gov>, delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=mailman, p
> ri=266990, relay=domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent


Another set of 4 culminating in a 'Sent' to dud1 at domain.gov, but here 
there is an additional entry (second of 5) which is actual delivery of 
the first bounce to the mailman wrapper.


> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4517]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZdU004517: from=root, size=4698, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<200606071328.k57DSZdU
> 004517 at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, relay=root at localhost
> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4507]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004506: to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces testlist", ctladdr=<test
> list-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov> (1/0), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=35136, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4518]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004518: from=<root at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, size=4915, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<2
> 00606071328.k57DSZdU004517 at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]
> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4517]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZdU004517: to=testlist-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, ctladdr=root (0/1), delay=00
> :00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, pri=34698, relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (k57DSZ8Z004518 Message accepted for delivery
> )
> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4497]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSY8Z004495: to=<dud4 at domain.gov>, delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=mailman, p
> ri=266990, relay=domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent


And another, now familiar set, I think the generation of the bounce of 
dud4 at domain.gov plus the delivery to mailman of the second bounce.


> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4513]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004512: to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces testlist", ctladdr=<test
> list-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov> (1/0), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=35136, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
> Jun  7 09:28:36 domainwcs1 sendmail[4519]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004518: to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces testlist", ctladdr=<test
> list-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov> (1/0), delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=prog, pri=35136, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent


and finally, the delivery to Mailman of the last two bounces.

So mailman is sending the post to dud1 at domain.gov, dud2 at domain.gov, 
dud3 at domain.gov and dud4 at domain.gov, the MTA is accepting the post and 
then ultimately bouncing all 4 addresses. This is an MTA configuration 
or other issue. The MTA (Sendmail) either can't deliver to these 
addresses or won't relay to them from localhost. This doesn't appear to 
be a Mailman issue.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From peter.adams at umb.edu  Thu Jun  8 14:27:20 2006
From: peter.adams at umb.edu (Peter C.S. Adams)
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2006 08:27:20 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Address Does Not Exist
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006060721174505468e70f5ef@msapiro>
Message-ID: <C0AD8FE8.27200%peter.adams@umb.edu>

Thus spake Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>, circa 6/8/2006 12:17 AM:
> That bounce came from an MTA - Mailman never saw the post.

Perhaps the machine running Mailman lacks an MX record in its DNS entry and
the MTA can't deliver mail to it?

     peter




From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  8 16:19:30 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 07:19:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delate all bounces....
In-Reply-To: <52443.24.90.32.74.1149771945.squirrel@mail.el.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606080719300406a97153f4@msapiro>

kalin mintchev wrote:
>
>from the qrunner log:
>Nov 15 17:00:14 2005 (2584) Qrunner BounceRunner reached maximum restart
>limit of 10, not restarting.
>
>what's this thing about maximum restart limit?!


What's in the log prior to this for the 10 deaths that required restart?

The idea is the master mailmanctl daemon watches the qrunner processes
and if one dies (for some, but not all reasons), the master restarts
it, but once it reaches the limit of 10 (coded in mailmanctl), it
stops the restarting on the theory that this is a "hard error" and we
don't want to loop forever on it.


>that's the last record before the entry of the new restart. right now it's
>running..
>
>now there is this huge and growing bounce-events-.pck file thought. i
>guess at some point the bouncer will process it?


Bounce runner processes the queued bounces, but rather than processing
them as they come and going through the list lock, load and save
process for each bounce, they are stored in the bounce-events-.pck and
that in turn is processed once every (default, controlled by
REGISTER_BOUNCES_EVERY) 15 minutes in list order so the list is only
locked, loaded and saved once.

I still don't know what the underlying issue is, possibly you have so
many bounces that the bounce-events-.pck reaches some size limitation.
What does the 'qrunner' log say about the deaths? What's in the
'error' log.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Jun  8 16:24:43 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 09:24:43 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to connect my server to mailman?
In-Reply-To: <e335b7a20606061450q60ecf24k929069ab875f60ca@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e335b7a20606061450q60ecf24k929069ab875f60ca@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606080724h595060c9r47d936af5f50af97@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/6/06, Amir Helzer <amir.helzer at gmail.com> wrote:
> My server has user lists and other information in its own database, and I
> want to use mailman for mass email distribution (which my hosting forbids me
> to do on the website server). So, I want my cgi-bin scripts to be able to do
> management operations for my mailman lists, e.g.:
> * Subscribe new users, so that they don't even need to reply to ack (they
> already did it on my server)
> * Subscribe news users so that the need to reply to mailman's subscription
> email.
> * Remove users from the list
>

You should be able to craft POST data which can then be sent to your
mailman server's admin pages. Essentially, simulate data entry into,
e.g., the mass subscribe field, etc.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From he at reclaimedcomputers.ca  Thu Jun  8 18:23:54 2006
From: he at reclaimedcomputers.ca (Hugh Esco)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 09:23:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need bin/newlist to notify but not prompt
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606072110260343f2cbaaf1@msapiro>
References: <6fbe3da00606071204h430cce61ue44330d5bd3c036e@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200606072110260343f2cbaaf1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060608092354.2bd93001.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>

Mr. Sapiro:  

Any chance that might make it to the code base, or should I
hang on to this and simply patch everything that comes my
way?  

-- Hugh 

On Wed, 7 Jun 2006 21:10:26 -0700
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Patrick Bogen wrote:
> >
> >Ask, and ye shall receive. A patch is attached, and I'll open up an
> >RFE and attach it there, as well. Adds the '-a/--automate' option to
> >not prompt, but still notify.
> 
> 
> Cool! Thank you.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Hugh Esco 
250-352-9361
he at reclaimedcomputers.ca
RCK Computer Services 
http://reclaimedcomputers.ca/


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Jun  8 18:29:42 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 11:29:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need bin/newlist to notify but not prompt
In-Reply-To: <20060608092354.2bd93001.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
References: <6fbe3da00606071204h430cce61ue44330d5bd3c036e@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200606072110260343f2cbaaf1@msapiro>
	<20060608092354.2bd93001.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606080929p6b83b8den2ca14b23ab380e2d@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/8/06, Hugh Esco <he at reclaimedcomputers.ca> wrote:
> Mr. Sapiro:
>
> Any chance that might make it to the code base, or should I
> hang on to this and simply patch everything that comes my
> way?

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1502441&group_id=103&atid=300103

It's been applied for 2.2. You'll still need to patch manually until
then, I think.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From ookami at gmx.de  Thu Jun  8 19:01:20 2006
From: ookami at gmx.de (wolfgang pauli)
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2006 19:01:20 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cronjobs (/bin/sh: mailman: command not found)
Message-ID: <20060608170120.31140@gmx.net>

Hi,

I had problems getting the cronjobs to work until I found something that looks like an error in the docs to me.
It says do "% crontab -u mailman crontab.in" to set up your cronjobs. But the crontab.in file includes cron commands like:
0 8 * * * mailman /usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs

So it results in the error msg (email):
Subject: [Mailman Site List] Cron <mailman at grey> mailman /usr/lib/mailman/cron/gate_news
Body: /bin/sh: mailman: command not found

I fixed that my removing "mailman" from all commands in crontab.in. E.g.:
0 8 * * * /usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs

-- 


Der GMX SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen!
Ideal f?r Modem und ISDN: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/smartsurfer


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  8 19:25:17 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 10:25:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cronjobs (/bin/sh: mailman: command not found)
In-Reply-To: <20060608170120.31140@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060810251706714f288c70@msapiro>

wolfgang pauli wrote:
>
>I had problems getting the cronjobs to work until I found something that looks like an error in the docs to me.
>It says do "% crontab -u mailman crontab.in" to set up your cronjobs. But the crontab.in file includes cron commands like:
>0 8 * * * mailman /usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs
>
>So it results in the error msg (email):
>Subject: [Mailman Site List] Cron <mailman at grey> mailman /usr/lib/mailman/cron/gate_news
>Body: /bin/sh: mailman: command not found
>
>I fixed that my removing "mailman" from all commands in crontab.in. E.g.:
>0 8 * * * /usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs


You are dealing with someone's package and your issue is with the
packager, not with Mailman's documentation.

The standard GNU Mailman distribution crontab.in is intended to be
installed as you describe which puts it in /var/spool/cron/mailman and
it does NOT contain the extra 'mailman user' field because it is
always run as the user that installed it.

The crontab.in you have with the mailman user field is intended by the
packager who created it to be installed in /etc/cron.d/ as perhaps
/etc/cron.d/mailman. In this location it needs the user field to
specify the user to run as.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kalin at el.net  Thu Jun  8 21:49:08 2006
From: kalin at el.net (kalin mintchev)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 15:49:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delate all bounces....
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606080719300406a97153f4@msapiro>
References: <52443.24.90.32.74.1149771945.squirrel@mail.el.net>
	<PC1740200606080719300406a97153f4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <52812.24.90.32.74.1149796148.squirrel@mail.el.net>

> I still don't know what the underlying issue is, possibly you have so
> many bounces that the bounce-events-.pck reaches some size limitation.
> What does the 'qrunner' log say about the deaths? What's in the
> 'error' log.


well BounceRunner died apparently short after i restarted everything
again. from the qrunner log:

Jun 08 06:00:57 2006 (7641) BounceRunner qrunner started.
........................................................
Jun 08 06:30:52 2006 (7639) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 7641, sig: 9, sts: None, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jun 08 06:31:05 2006 (8048) BounceRunner qrunner started.
Jun 08 06:43:12 2006 (7639) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 8048, sig: 11, sts: None, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jun 08 06:43:16 2006 (8159) BounceRunner qrunner started.
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 (7639) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 8159, sig: None, sts: 1, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
.................(repeated 10 time i guess).........................
Jun 08 06:44:14 2006 (7639) Qrunner BounceRunner reached maximum restart
limit of 10, not restarting.



the output from the error log for the same times is a bit longer so i'm
attaching it. there are no other error log after these...

thanks...




From kalin at el.net  Thu Jun  8 21:56:56 2006
From: kalin at el.net (kalin mintchev)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 15:56:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delate all bounces....
In-Reply-To: <52812.24.90.32.74.1149796148.squirrel@mail.el.net>
References: <52443.24.90.32.74.1149771945.squirrel@mail.el.net>
	<PC1740200606080719300406a97153f4@msapiro>
	<52812.24.90.32.74.1149796148.squirrel@mail.el.net>
Message-ID: <57932.24.90.32.74.1149796616.squirrel@mail.el.net>


> the output from the error log for the same times is a bit longer so i'm
> attaching it.

i guess no attachments.... ok.... here it is:

Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159): Traceback (most recent call last):
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
line 270, in ?
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      main()
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
line 230, in main
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      qrunner.run()
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File
"/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 70, in run
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      filecnt = self._oneloop()
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File
"/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 99, in _oneloop
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      msg, msgdata =
self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File
"/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 151, in dequeue
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      msg =
email.message_from_string(msg, Message.Message)
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File
"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/__init__.py", line 52, in
message_from_string
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      return Parser(_class,
strict=strict).parsestr(s)
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File
"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      return self.parse(StringIO(text),
headersonly=headersonly)
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File
"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      self._parsebody(root, fp,
firstbodyline)
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File
"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 240, in _parsebody
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      msgobj = self.parsestr(part)
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File
"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      return self.parse(StringIO(text),
headersonly=headersonly)
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File
"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 61, in parse
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      root = self._class()
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File
"/var/mailman/Mailman/Message.py", line 46, in __init__
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      email.Message.Message.__init__(self)
Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159): AttributeError :  'tuple' object has
no attribute 'Message'
Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170): Traceback (most recent call last):
Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
line 270, in ?
Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):      main()
Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
line 217, in main
Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):      qrunner = make_qrunner(*runners[0])
Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
line 106, in make_qrunner
Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):      __import__(modulename)
Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):   File
"/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 29, in ?
Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):      from Mailman import Utils
Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):   File
"/var/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 68, in ?
Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):      cre =
re.compile(r'%\(([_a-z]\w*?)\)s?', re.IGNORECASE)
Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):   File
"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre.py", line 180, in compile
Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):      return _compile(pattern, flags)
Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):   File
"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre.py", line 222, in _compile
Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):      if not
sre_compile.isstring(pattern):
Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):   File
"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre_compile.py", line 471, in isstring
Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):      if isinstance(obj, tp):
Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170): TypeError :  isinstance() arg 2 must
be a class, type, or tuple of classes and types
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173): Traceback (most recent call last):
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
line 270, in ?
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      main()
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
line 217, in main
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      qrunner = make_qrunner(*runners[0])
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
line 106, in make_qrunner
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      __import__(modulename)
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
"/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 24, in ?
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      from email.MIMEText import MIMEText
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/MIMEText.py", line 8, in ?
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      from email.MIMENonMultipart
import MIMENonMultipart
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/MIMENonMultipart.py", line 8, in ?
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      from email import MIMEBase
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/MIMEBase.py", line 7, in ?
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      from email import Message
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 15, in ?
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      from email import Utils
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Utils.py", line 123, in ?
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      ecre = re.compile(r'''
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre.py", line 180, in compile
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      return _compile(pattern, flags)
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre.py", line 225, in _compile
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      p = sre_compile.compile(pattern,
flags)
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre_compile.py", line 496, in compile
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      p = sre_parse.parse(p, flags)
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre_parse.py", line 665, in parse
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      p = _parse_sub(source, pattern, 0)
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre_parse.py", line 308, in _parse_sub
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      itemsappend(_parse(source, state))
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre_parse.py", line 398, in _parse
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      if this in WHITESPACE:
Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173): TypeError :  iterable argument required
Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176): Traceback (most recent call last):
Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
line 270, in ?
Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):      main()
Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
line 217, in main
Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):      qrunner = make_qrunner(*runners[0])
Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
line 106, in make_qrunner
Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):      __import__(modulename)
Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):   File
"/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 29, in ?
Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):      from Mailman import Utils
Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):   File
"/var/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 68, in ?
Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):      cre =
re.compile(r'%\(([_a-z]\w*?)\)s?', re.IGNORECASE)
Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):   File
"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre.py", line 180, in compile
Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):      return _compile(pattern, flags)
Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):   File
"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre.py", line 222, in _compile
Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):      if not
sre_compile.isstring(pattern):
Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):   File
"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre_compile.py", line 471, in isstring
Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):      if isinstance(obj, tp):
Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176): TypeError :  isinstance() arg 2 must
be a class, type, or tuple of classes and types






From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  8 22:13:54 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 13:13:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delate all bounces....
In-Reply-To: <52812.24.90.32.74.1149796148.squirrel@mail.el.net>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060813135405154f288bf9@msapiro>

kalin mintchev wrote:
>
>> I still don't know what the underlying issue is, possibly you have so
>> many bounces that the bounce-events-.pck reaches some size limitation.
>> What does the 'qrunner' log say about the deaths? What's in the
>> 'error' log.
>
>
>well BounceRunner died apparently short after i restarted everything
>again. from the qrunner log:
>
>Jun 08 06:30:52 2006 (7639) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 7641, sig: 9, sts: None, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]


sig 9 is a SIGKILL ?


>Jun 08 06:31:05 2006 (8048) BounceRunner qrunner started.
>Jun 08 06:43:12 2006 (7639) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 8048, sig: 11, sts: None, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]


Sig 11 is a segment violation.


>the output from the error log for the same times is a bit longer so i'm
>attaching it. there are no other error log after these...

See next reply.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  8 22:39:16 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 13:39:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delate all bounces....
In-Reply-To: <57932.24.90.32.74.1149796616.squirrel@mail.el.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606081339160234f3a5a4da@msapiro>

kalin mintchev wrote:
>
>i guess no attachments.... ok.... here it is:
>
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159): Traceback (most recent call last):
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
>line 270, in ?
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      main()
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
>line 230, in main
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      qrunner.run()
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File
>"/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 70, in run
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      filecnt = self._oneloop()
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File
>"/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 99, in _oneloop
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      msg, msgdata =
>self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File
>"/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 151, in dequeue
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      msg =
>email.message_from_string(msg, Message.Message)
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File
>"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/__init__.py", line 52, in
>message_from_string
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      return Parser(_class,
>strict=strict).parsestr(s)
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File
>"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      return self.parse(StringIO(text),
>headersonly=headersonly)
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File
>"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      self._parsebody(root, fp,
>firstbodyline)
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File
>"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 240, in _parsebody
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      msgobj = self.parsestr(part)
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File
>"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      return self.parse(StringIO(text),
>headersonly=headersonly)
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File
>"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 61, in parse
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      root = self._class()
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):   File
>"/var/mailman/Mailman/Message.py", line 46, in __init__
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159):      email.Message.Message.__init__(self)
>Jun 08 06:43:23 2006 qrunner(8159): AttributeError :  'tuple' object has
>no attribute 'Message'



>Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170): Traceback (most recent call last):
>Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
>line 270, in ?
>Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):      main()
>Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
>line 217, in main
>Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):      qrunner = make_qrunner(*runners[0])
>Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
>line 106, in make_qrunner
>Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):      __import__(modulename)
>Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):   File
>"/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 29, in ?
>Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):      from Mailman import Utils
>Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):   File
>"/var/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 68, in ?
>Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):      cre =
>re.compile(r'%\(([_a-z]\w*?)\)s?', re.IGNORECASE)
>Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):   File
>"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre.py", line 180, in compile
>Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):      return _compile(pattern, flags)
>Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):   File
>"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre.py", line 222, in _compile
>Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):      if not
>sre_compile.isstring(pattern):
>Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):   File
>"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre_compile.py", line 471, in isstring
>Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170):      if isinstance(obj, tp):
>Jun 08 06:43:42 2006 qrunner(8170): TypeError :  isinstance() arg 2 must
>be a class, type, or tuple of classes and types



>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173): Traceback (most recent call last):
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
>line 270, in ?
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      main()
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
>line 217, in main
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      qrunner = make_qrunner(*runners[0])
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
>line 106, in make_qrunner
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      __import__(modulename)
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
>"/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 24, in ?
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      from email.MIMEText import MIMEText
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
>"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/MIMEText.py", line 8, in ?
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      from email.MIMENonMultipart
>import MIMENonMultipart
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
>"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/MIMENonMultipart.py", line 8, in ?
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      from email import MIMEBase
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
>"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/MIMEBase.py", line 7, in ?
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      from email import Message
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
>"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 15, in ?
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      from email import Utils
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
>"/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Utils.py", line 123, in ?
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      ecre = re.compile(r'''
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
>"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre.py", line 180, in compile
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      return _compile(pattern, flags)
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
>"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre.py", line 225, in _compile
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      p = sre_compile.compile(pattern,
>flags)
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
>"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre_compile.py", line 496, in compile
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      p = sre_parse.parse(p, flags)
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
>"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre_parse.py", line 665, in parse
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      p = _parse_sub(source, pattern, 0)
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
>"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre_parse.py", line 308, in _parse_sub
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      itemsappend(_parse(source, state))
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):   File
>"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre_parse.py", line 398, in _parse
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173):      if this in WHITESPACE:
>Jun 08 06:44:07 2006 qrunner(8173): TypeError :  iterable argument required



>Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176): Traceback (most recent call last):
>Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
>line 270, in ?
>Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):      main()
>Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
>line 217, in main
>Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):      qrunner = make_qrunner(*runners[0])
>Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner",
>line 106, in make_qrunner
>Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):      __import__(modulename)
>Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):   File
>"/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 29, in ?
>Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):      from Mailman import Utils
>Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):   File
>"/var/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 68, in ?
>Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):      cre =
>re.compile(r'%\(([_a-z]\w*?)\)s?', re.IGNORECASE)
>Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):   File
>"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre.py", line 180, in compile
>Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):      return _compile(pattern, flags)
>Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):   File
>"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre.py", line 222, in _compile
>Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):      if not
>sre_compile.isstring(pattern):
>Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):   File
>"/usr/local/lib/python2.4/sre_compile.py", line 471, in isstring
>Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176):      if isinstance(obj, tp):
>Jun 08 06:44:12 2006 qrunner(8176): TypeError :  isinstance() arg 2 must
>be a class, type, or tuple of classes and types



There are four separate tracebacks above (I added a little whitespace
between them) and three distinct errors, all of which seem to be a
result of python internal data being clobbered.

Previously, I guessed this may have something to do with the sheer
volume of bounces in the bounce queue at this point. I still think
this is likely.

Here is my suggestion.

Stop Mailman - bin/mailmanctl stop

Abandon all the old queued bounces and remove the bounces queue to
shrink it - rm -rf qfiles/bounces

Remove the orphaned  bounce-events-*.pck files - rm
data/bounce-events-*.pck

Start Mailman - bin/mailmanctl start

Then go to
http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/mailman/trunk/mailman/contrib/
and download the latest 'mmdsr' and 'README.mmdsr' (If you have
Mailman 2.1.8, the latest version is in your contrib/ directory).

Install mmdsr and set up a cron to run it, so you can catch these kinds
of situations in the future before they become disastrous.
.
-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From oxelson at unidata.ucar.edu  Fri Jun  9 00:29:12 2006
From: oxelson at unidata.ucar.edu (Jennifer Oxelson)
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2006 16:29:12 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] determine the sender's email address?
Message-ID: <4488A4B8.7010400@unidata.ucar.edu>

Hello,

How does Mailman recognize/determine the sender's email address?  E.g., 
FROM, REPLY-TO, RECEIVED, etc?

I see a similar question was asked before, but it appears that it was 
never answered:
[Mailman-Users] Recognize REPLY-TO as a subscribed user?
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2001-January/009105.html

Also, has anyone ever encountered any issues with spoofing when 
configuring the sender filters of a list to accept/reject addresses via 
a specified domain?  E.g., Mailman FAQ Entry #3.33:  How do I accept or 
reject all addresses from a particular domain?  
(http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.033.htp)

Thanks





From lhaynes at cherokeek12.org  Fri Jun  9 01:17:14 2006
From: lhaynes at cherokeek12.org (Lee Haynes)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 18:17:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Delivery Issue
Message-ID: <IOEBJHNHGHJEPOGFKOFNKELOCKAA.lhaynes@cherokeek12.org>

When an email is posted to a list or Mailman generates an email, the message
is never delivered, and I receive an error in smtp-failure:

Low level smtp error: (60, 'Operation timed out'), msgid:
<mailman.2.1149803348.35306.all-to at lists.domain.org>

No information is logged by sendmail to maillog.

Outside of Mailman, mail on the server is functioning. I don't believe it to
be a name resolution problem; however, I could be mistaken. I visually
double-checked my hosts file and also made sure the server's name resolves
from the command line.

I also updated mm_cfg.py with a DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST - I
tried using the name and ip for DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST.

I'm stumped. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

-Lee



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  9 01:32:16 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 16:32:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] determine the sender's email address?
In-Reply-To: <4488A4B8.7010400@unidata.ucar.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606081632160390fd85fe56@msapiro>

Jennifer Oxelson wrote:
>
>How does Mailman recognize/determine the sender's email address?  E.g., 
>FROM, REPLY-TO, RECEIVED, etc?


Quoting from Defaults.py

# Membership tests for posting purposes are usually performed by
looking at a
# set of headers, passing the test if any of their values match a
member of
# the list.  Headers are checked in the order given in this variable. 
The
# value None means use the From_ (envelope sender) header.  Field names
are
# case insensitive.
SENDER_HEADERS = ('from', None, 'reply-to', 'sender')


The above is used to determine whether or not the post was sent by a
list member. If it is determined that none of the SENDER_HEADERS
addresses is a list member, then the sender for additional tests
(*_these_nonmembers) depends on USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER. If
USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER is No, it is the first address found in From: if
any, else Sender:. If USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER is Yes, it is the Sender: if
any, else first From:.


>Also, has anyone ever encountered any issues with spoofing when 
>configuring the sender filters of a list to accept/reject addresses via 
>a specified domain?  E.g., Mailman FAQ Entry #3.33:  How do I accept or 
>reject all addresses from a particular domain?  
>(http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.033.htp)


Probably. It is easy enough to spoof the From: or other addresses. If I
know you accept any address @example.com, I can spoof that. As I note
above, the address which is matched against accept_these_nonmembers is
jenerally either From: or Sender: depending on the mm_cfg.py setting
of USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  9 01:40:03 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 16:40:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Delivery Issue
In-Reply-To: <IOEBJHNHGHJEPOGFKOFNKELOCKAA.lhaynes@cherokeek12.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606081640030812fd85ffef@msapiro>

Lee Haynes wrote:

>When an email is posted to a list or Mailman generates an email, the message
>is never delivered, and I receive an error in smtp-failure:
>
>Low level smtp error: (60, 'Operation timed out'), msgid:
><mailman.2.1149803348.35306.all-to at lists.domain.org>
>
>No information is logged by sendmail to maillog.


You probably are not able to connect to your SMTP server on SMTPPORT at
SMTPHOST. The default settings are:

SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
SMTPPORT = 0

0 for SMTPPORT means use the SMTP port = port 25. So if you haven't
changed these in mm_cfg.py, you are trying to connect to port 25 on
'localhost' and your SMTP server isn't answering.

If you've changed these, they're not correct. If you haven't, you
either have to tell your MTA to listen on localhost, port 25 of change
them to an address and port where the MTA is listening.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From eli.tuber at gmail.com  Fri Jun  9 03:38:08 2006
From: eli.tuber at gmail.com (Eli Tuber)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 21:38:08 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Members list settings
Message-ID: <ffbc31930606081838i152c6f9eldb63ea7b18dd365a@mail.gmail.com>

Is there a way to not change over to alphabetical view of the members list
once it has over N number of users? I have about 25 emails and would rather
see them all in one page then broken down by letters. It makes it easier
when I have to disable a couple of users from receiving an email and then
turning them back on.

Thanks


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  9 03:50:01 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 18:50:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Members list settings
In-Reply-To: <ffbc31930606081838i152c6f9eldb63ea7b18dd365a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060818500105623dd9f7b3@msapiro>

Eli Tuber" <eli.tuber at gmail.com>
   Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 21:38:08 -0400
     To: mailman-users at python.org

>Is there a way to not change over to alphabetical view of the members list
>once it has over N number of users? I have about 25 emails and would rather
>see them all in one page then broken down by letters. It makes it easier
>when I have to disable a couple of users from receiving an email and then
>turning them back on.

No, but you can increase the value of N for a list.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.030.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From scott at fyrenice.com  Fri Jun  9 05:01:13 2006
From: scott at fyrenice.com (Dr. Scott S. Jones)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 21:01:13 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cleaning up dead addresses
Message-ID: <20060609030113.GA30039@xmission.com>

Does Mailman recognize and somehow eliminate entries, addresses, which are
dead or no long in use? 

I was reviewing one of my lists today and recognize several email addresses
for recipients who are long since moved, and whose addresses are likely
dead. 

How does Mailman manage these? 

Dr. Scott S. Jones

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From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  9 06:14:43 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 21:14:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cleaning up dead addresses
In-Reply-To: <20060609030113.GA30039@xmission.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606082114430250071ac225@msapiro>

Dr. Scott S. Jones wrote:
>
>Does Mailman recognize and somehow eliminate entries, addresses, which are
>dead or no long in use?


Yes, if bounce processing is on for the list.


>I was reviewing one of my lists today and recognize several email addresses
>for recipients who are long since moved, and whose addresses are likely
>dead.
>
>How does Mailman manage these?


In accord with the settings on the list admin Bounce processing page.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From danielbk at ornl.gov  Fri Jun  9 06:22:41 2006
From: danielbk at ornl.gov (Daniel, Barry K.)
Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 00:22:41 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Sendmail debugging questions
References: <890ECEBADF00794ABC9C94752F4C0CEB01D143D8@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>
	<4484723F.1060806@value.net>
	<890ECEBADF00794ABC9C94752F4C0CEBB08A6C@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>
	<4487BDE7.3000405@value.net>
Message-ID: <890ECEBADF00794ABC9C94752F4C0CEBB08A6D@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>

Below in the /var/log/maillog file, why are the 4 posts sent to testlist-bounces?  I was assuming that there would be one post for each of the four list members (dud1,dud2,dud3,dud4).  Is it normal to see the testlist-bounces?  I have set up a mailertable on the receiving side of Sendmail that will accept all mail from domain.gov and send it to the mailman delivery agent.  On the sending side of Sendmail I do not use this mailertable and have set up a smart relay to relay the domain.gov messages to domainmta1 at domainpriv.gov and also set the Sendmail MTAHost on the send side to this same machine.  I have verified that I can send email directly from the server that I have Mailman on to this remote MTA via Sendmail.
 
 
I agree with your assessment that Mailman seems to be trying to post the message to the list members.  But, why is Mailman trying to relay through localhost.  I set up my DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST to be domainmta1 at domainpriv.gov in my mm_cfg.py file.  The localhost will not recognize the dud1 at domain.gov address but the domainmta1 at domainpriv.gov server should.  I have not overridden the default DELIVERY_MODULE="SMTPDirect".
 
By the way, I am truly sorry that I am so dense on this stuff.  You are doing a great job trying to guide me through the jungle.

________________________________

From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net]
Sent: Thu 6/8/2006 2:04 AM
To: Daniel, Barry K.
Cc: Patrick Bogen; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: RE: RE: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Sendmail debugging questions



Daniel, Barry K. wrote:
> 
> /usr/local/mailman/log/smtp
> Jun 07 09:28:34 2006 (2096) <fa3eb4104181.44869c3f at domain.gov> smtp to testlist for 4 recips, completed in 0.088 seconds

Your post was sent to 4 recipients.


> Jun 07 09:28:37 2006 (2096) <mailman.0.1149686915.2092.testlist at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov> smtp to testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.105 seconds


Note: in the above and in what follows I have tried to remove (for
readability) the
<mailto:mailman.0.1149686915.2092.testlist at leowcs1.leopriv.gov> and
similar 'mailto:' links added by your MUA.

3 seconds later a single, mailman generated message was sent - maybe a
notice to the list owner?


> Jun 07 09:28:37 2006 (2096) <mailman.1.1149686915.2092.testlist at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov> smtp to testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.068 seconds


and another


> Jun 07 09:28:37 2006 (2096) <mailman.2.1149686915.2092.testlist at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov> smtp to testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.086 seconds


and another


> Jun 07 09:28:38 2006 (2096) <mailman.3.1149686916.2092.testlist at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov> smtp to testlist for 1 recips, completed in 0.084 seconds


and another


> Jun 07 09:28:39 2006 (2096) <mailman.4.1149686918.2092.mailman at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.090 seconds


and another


> Jun 07 09:28:39 2006 (2096) <mailman.5.1149686918.2092.mailman at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.094 seconds


and another


> Jun 07 09:28:39 2006 (2096) <mailman.6.1149686918.2092.mailman at domainmta.domainpriv.gov> smtp to mailman for 1 recips, completed in 0.097 seconds


and another for a total of 7 Mailman generated messages, each to a
single recipient?


> /var/mail/maillog
> Jun  7 09:28:33 domainwcs1 sendmail[4490]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSX8Z004490: from=<dud1 at domain.gov>, size=1806, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<fa3eb410418
> 1.44869c3f at domain.gov>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=domainmta1.domainpriv.gov [10.31.162.9]


The original post is received by the MTA


> Jun  7 09:28:33 domainwcs1 sendmail[4492]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSX8Z004490: to=<testlist at domain.gov>, delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=mailma
> n, pri=121806, relay=domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent


and delivered to testlist at domain.gov


> Jun  7 09:28:34 domainwcs1 sendmail[4495]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSY8Z004495: from=<testlist-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov>, size=2990, class=-30, nr
> cpts=4, msgid=<fa3eb4104181.44869c3f at domain.gov>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]


The post is received from Mailman for 4 recipients.


> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4499]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZYg004499: from=root, size=4698, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<200606071328.k57DSZYg
> 004499 at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, relay=root at localhost


Some other message is received by the MTA from root at localhost


> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4500]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004500: from=<root at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, size=4915, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<2
> 00606071328.k57DSZYg004499 at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]


and relayed to localhost


> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4499]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZYg004499: to=testlist-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, ctladdr=root (0/1), delay=00
> :00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, pri=34698, relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (k57DSZ8Z004500 Message accepted for delivery
> )


and accepted for delivery to testlist-bounces, so it appears to be a
bounce (last 3 entries)


> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4497]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSY8Z004495: to=<dud3 at domain.gov>, delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=mailman, p
> ri=266990, relay=domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent


The original message for 4 recipients (k57DSY8Z004495) is sent to
dud3 at domain.gov (but this may refer to the bounce)


> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4505]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZUR004505: from=root, size=4698, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<200606071328.k57DSZUR
> 004505 at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, relay=root at localhost
> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4506]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004506: from=<root at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, size=4915, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<2
> 00606071328.k57DSZUR004505 at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]
> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4505]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZUR004505: to=testlist-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, ctladdr=root (0/1), delay=00
> :00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, pri=34698, relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (k57DSZ8Z004506 Message accepted for delivery
> )


And another bounce relayed and accepted for delivery


> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4497]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSY8Z004495: to=<dud2 at domain.gov>, delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=mailman, p
> ri=266990, relay=domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent


And another 'Sent' to dud2 at domain.gov


> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4511]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZoI004511: from=root, size=4698, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<200606071328.k57DSZoI
> 004511 at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, relay=root at localhost
> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4501]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004500: to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces testlist", ctladdr=<test
> list-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov> (1/0), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=35136, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4512]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004512: from=<root at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, size=4915, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<2
> 00606071328.k57DSZoI004511 at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]
> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4511]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZoI004511: to=testlist-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, ctladdr=root (0/1), delay=00
> :00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, pri=34698, relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (k57DSZ8Z004512 Message accepted for delivery
> )
> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4497]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSY8Z004495: to=<dud1 at domain.gov>, delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=mailman, p
> ri=266990, relay=domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent


Another set of 4 culminating in a 'Sent' to dud1 at domain.gov, but here
there is an additional entry (second of 5) which is actual delivery of
the first bounce to the mailman wrapper.


> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4517]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZdU004517: from=root, size=4698, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<200606071328.k57DSZdU
> 004517 at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, relay=root at localhost
> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4507]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004506: to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces testlist", ctladdr=<test
> list-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov> (1/0), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=35136, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4518]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004518: from=<root at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, size=4915, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<2
> 00606071328.k57DSZdU004517 at domainps.domainpriv.gov>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]
> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4517]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZdU004517: to=testlist-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, ctladdr=root (0/1), delay=00
> :00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, pri=34698, relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (k57DSZ8Z004518 Message accepted for delivery
> )
> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4497]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSY8Z004495: to=<dud4 at domain.gov>, delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=mailman, p
> ri=266990, relay=domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent


And another, now familiar set, I think the generation of the bounce of
dud4 at domain.gov plus the delivery to mailman of the second bounce.


> Jun  7 09:28:35 domainwcs1 sendmail[4513]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004512: to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces testlist", ctladdr=<test
> list-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov> (1/0), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=35136, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
> Jun  7 09:28:36 domainwcs1 sendmail[4519]: [ID 801593 mail.info] k57DSZ8Z004518: to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces testlist", ctladdr=<test
> list-bounces at domainwcs1.domainpriv.gov> (1/0), delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=prog, pri=35136, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent


and finally, the delivery to Mailman of the last two bounces.

So mailman is sending the post to dud1 at domain.gov, dud2 at domain.gov,
dud3 at domain.gov and dud4 at domain.gov, the MTA is accepting the post and
then ultimately bouncing all 4 addresses. This is an MTA configuration
or other issue. The MTA (Sendmail) either can't deliver to these
addresses or won't relay to them from localhost. This doesn't appear to
be a Mailman issue.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  9 07:23:09 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2006 22:23:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Sendmail debugging questions
In-Reply-To: <890ECEBADF00794ABC9C94752F4C0CEBB08A6D@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>
References: <890ECEBADF00794ABC9C94752F4C0CEB01D143D8@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>
	<4484723F.1060806@value.net>
	<890ECEBADF00794ABC9C94752F4C0CEBB08A6C@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>
	<4487BDE7.3000405@value.net>
	<890ECEBADF00794ABC9C94752F4C0CEBB08A6D@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>
Message-ID: <448905BD.20702@value.net>

Daniel, Barry K. wrote:
> Below in the /var/log/maillog file, why are the 4 posts sent to
> testlist-bounces?  I was assuming that there would be one post for
> each of the four list members (dud1,dud2,dud3,dud4).


That's right. Then the MTA returns a bounce to testlist-bounces for each 
undeliverable address.


> Is it normal to
> see the testlist-bounces?


If there's a bounce.


> I have set up a mailertable on the
> receiving side of Sendmail that will accept all mail from domain.gov
> and send it to the mailman delivery agent.  On the sending side of
> Sendmail I do not use this mailertable and have set up a smart relay
> to relay the domain.gov messages to domainmta1 at domainpriv.gov and
> also set the Sendmail MTAHost on the send side to this same machine.
> I have verified that I can send email directly from the server that I
> have Mailman on to this remote MTA via Sendmail.
> 
> 
> I agree with your assessment that Mailman seems to be trying to post
> the message to the list members.  But, why is Mailman trying to relay
> through localhost.  I set up my DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST to be
> domainmta1 at domainpriv.gov in my mm_cfg.py file.  The localhost will
> not recognize the dud1 at domain.gov address but the
> domainmta1 at domainpriv.gov server should.  I have not overridden the
> default DELIVERY_MODULE="SMTPDirect".


Aha! DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST controls the domain exposed to the world for 
mailing TO Mailman. It has nothing to do with what domain we connect to 
for sending from Mailman. That is controlled by SMTPHOST which defaults 
to 'localhost'. I'm assuming that domainmta1 at domainpriv.gov above is a 
typo and you mean domainmta1.domainpriv.gov or maybe 
domainmta.domainpriv.gov since that's what you seem to actually have for 
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST. So assuming the Sendmail you want to send (not 
receive) through is domainmta.domainpriv.gov, you want

SMTPHOST = 'domainmta.domainpriv.gov'

in mm_cfg.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Jun  9 20:09:34 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 13:09:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cleaning up dead addresses
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606082114430250071ac225@msapiro>
References: <20060609030113.GA30039@xmission.com>
	<PC1740200606082114430250071ac225@msapiro>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606091109r7fcad50n941d14208a103455@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/8/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> >I was reviewing one of my lists today and recognize several email addresses
> >for recipients who are long since moved, and whose addresses are likely
> >dead.
> >
> >How does Mailman manage these?
> In accord with the settings on the list admin Bounce processing page.

To be a bit more precise, the way this works is that Mailman goes
ahead and sends messages to these addresses. If the bounce (that is,
the remove server sends a message back saying that the original
message was undeliverable), bounce processing takes over. In general,
after some number of bounces occur (not on the same day) within some
time period, the account will be disabled, and eventually deleted.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From KenneyW at easternct.edu  Fri Jun  9 20:03:37 2006
From: KenneyW at easternct.edu (KENNEY, William P. (Info. Tech. Services))
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 14:03:37 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List owner not getting bounce notifications
Message-ID: <DC2E9B5C4981914E8362C8E8A4C8169E013EFBF4@ecsube2.ec-admin.easternct.edu>

Hello,

I am the administrator of our mailman list server and after creating a
new list for a list owner, it was noted that the list owner is not
receiving bounce notifications. I see mail errors as root indicating the
mail recipient is invalid for the delivery URL.

What should I, and/or the list owner do to ensure the owner gets a
bounce notification?

TIA,

Bill

William P. Kenney GSEC
Unix Systems Manager
Eastern Connecticut State University
(860) 465-4688
(860) 465-4675 fax



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  9 21:06:48 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 12:06:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List owner not getting bounce notifications
In-Reply-To: <DC2E9B5C4981914E8362C8E8A4C8169E013EFBF4@ecsube2.ec-admin.easternct.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606091206480421f0c0a595@msapiro>

KENNEY, William P. (Info. Tech. Services) wrote:
>
>I am the administrator of our mailman list server and after creating a
>new list for a list owner, it was noted that the list owner is not
>receiving bounce notifications. I see mail errors as root indicating the
>mail recipient is invalid for the delivery URL.
>
>What should I, and/or the list owner do to ensure the owner gets a
>bounce notification?


Is the owner receiving other notifications, e.g. held messages?

Is the 'owner' address correct on the admin General Options page?

Are the notices specifically turned on on the admin Bounce processing
page?

Can you be more specific about the errors you see, i.e. what specific
recipient address is invalid, where do you see these errors?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jwblist3 at olympus.net  Fri Jun  9 23:49:15 2006
From: jwblist3 at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 14:49:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Members list settings
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006060818500105623dd9f7b3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <C0AF3AEB.CFD4%jwblist3@olympus.net>

On 6/8/06 6:50 PM, "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Eli Tuber" <eli.tuber at gmail.com>
>    Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 21:38:08 -0400
>      To: mailman-users at python.org
> 
>> Is there a way to not change over to alphabetical view of the members list
>> once it has over N number of users? I have about 25 emails and would rather
>> see them all in one page then broken down by letters. It makes it easier
>> when I have to disable a couple of users from receiving an email and then
>> turning them back on.
> 
> No, but you can increase the value of N for a list.
> 
> See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.030.htp>

I always worry about changing default values, but in this case the world has
changed.  Is 25 still the right default in this age when few list
owner/admin folks are on dialup?  Just one more thing to contemplate.

  --John




From jperrie at us.ibm.com  Fri Jun  9 23:23:39 2006
From: jperrie at us.ibm.com (Joseph Perrie)
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 16:23:39 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with To Header
Message-ID: <OF7256B8F9.D1017B83-ON86257188.00730392-86257188.007582F6@us.ibm.com>


DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST is set to thecheat.example.com while the hostname of my
machine is strongbad.example.com.  All emails come from strongbad.  I'm
running sendmail.  Masquerade and Masquerade_as are configured.  I've tried
everything.  All of the FAQ suggestions, the mailing list, usenet, and the
google.  I can't seem to get my mailman install to send mail with the
correct To-header.  I've even tried rebuilding the mailman RPM for RHEL4
with configure explicitly set to use thecheat, but to no avail.  Please
help before I give up on computers and take up subsistence farming.

Thanks in advance,

Tony
http://involution.com



From jperrie at us.ibm.com  Sat Jun 10 01:48:46 2006
From: jperrie at us.ibm.com (Joseph Perrie)
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 18:48:46 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with To Header
Message-ID: <OF9D2B4B72.AA524739-ON86257188.0082B911-86257188.0082CC20@us.ibm.com>


All of the emails sent by our server out to the mailing lists were using
the host name instead of the DNS A record for the Mailman VirtualHost. I
tried for days to fix this and eventually got the feeling that it was DNS
related. However, I still couldn't see why Sendmail would force the
To-header back to the canonical name when Mailman was setting it correctly.
Eventually, I happened across this email (
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/1998-August/004971.html)
 on the dev list that solved the problem by manually editting sendmail.cf's
rulesets to bypass canonicalization. I'm sure this violates some RFC.
Although, the hack does indeed solve the problem. The actual wizardry was
to comment out the following line in sendmail.cf.


# pass to name server to make hostname canonical
# R$* $| $* < @ $* > $*         $: $2 < @ $[ $3 $] > $4



It's absolutely wrong to do this because if you edit sendmail.mc, and
restart sendmail, the cf file gets regenerated automatically which
obliterates the change. Is there a better way to fix this without violating
RFCs and changing sendmail rulesets? Note: I don't have access to the DNS
server.

Tony Perrie
Engineer, STI Convergence Team, BQQA
11501 Burnet Rd, Building 906/3007C Austin, TX, 78759
Phone: 512-838-1402, T/L: 678-1402
Fax: 512-838-2132



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun 10 02:10:16 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 17:10:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Members list settings
In-Reply-To: <C0AF3AEB.CFD4%jwblist3@olympus.net>
Message-ID: <PC17402006060917101602181ad0446a@msapiro>

John W. Baxter wrote:
>
>I always worry about changing default values, but in this case the world has
>changed.  Is 25 still the right default in this age when few list
>owner/admin folks are on dialup?  Just one more thing to contemplate.


Actually, the distributed default is 30, but your point is still valid.

I prefer however to think in terms of the RFEs on this which ask for
various things from simply exposing the parameter in the web interface
to providing a radio button selection (e.g. 20, 50, 100, all) on the
pages to paginating without regard for the alphabet.

I like the latter idea which would allow, in the example of chunk size
= 30, for a list of 31 to 60 members to be displayed in two pages
rather than 20 or more. This can make it more difficult to find a
particular member in a large list, but the 'Find member' function is
probably better for this anyway.

Other thoughts?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sat Jun 10 02:17:26 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 19:17:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with To Header
In-Reply-To: <OF9D2B4B72.AA524739-ON86257188.0082B911-86257188.0082CC20@us.ibm.
	com>
References: <OF9D2B4B72.AA524739-ON86257188.0082B911-86257188.0082CC20@us.ibm.
	com>
Message-ID: <p0620070ac0afbf542038@[192.168.1.101]>

At 6:48 PM -0500 2006-06-09, Joseph Perrie wrote:

>           However, I still couldn't see why Sendmail would force the
>  To-header back to the canonical name when Mailman was setting it correctly.
>  Eventually, I happened across this email (
>  http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/1998-August/004971.html)
>   on the dev list that solved the problem by manually editting sendmail.cf's
>  rulesets to bypass canonicalization. I'm sure this violates some RFC.

	Yup.  The problem is, your server isn't the only one to perform 
canonicalization.  All other servers your machine talks to should do 
the same, which means that anything you do to eliminate 
canonicalization on your own machine should have absolutely no 
positive impact whatsoever.  You may think it does, but in fact 
everyone else will turn around and do to you exactly what your own 
server was doing.

>  It's absolutely wrong to do this because if you edit sendmail.mc, and
>  restart sendmail, the cf file gets regenerated automatically which
>  obliterates the change. Is there a better way to fix this without violating
>  RFCs and changing sendmail rulesets? Note: I don't have access to the DNS
>  server.

	I'm sorry, the only way to really fix this problem is to fix the 
DNS.  Even if you have complete and total control over your own 
machine, you're still hosed by every other machine on the Internet.

	You have to get the DNS fixed.  That's the *only* solution.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From cpz at tuunq.com  Sat Jun 10 02:37:04 2006
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 17:37:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Members list settings
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006060917101602181ad0446a@msapiro> from Mark Sapiro at
	"Jun 9, 2006 05:10:16 pm"
Message-ID: <20060610003705.5D0047AF@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> I prefer however to think in terms of the RFEs on this which ask for
> various things from simply exposing the parameter in the web interface
> to providing a radio button selection (e.g. 20, 50, 100, all) on the
> pages to paginating without regard for the alphabet.

How about chunk size and by-letter or whole-list (to apply the chunk)?
I'm willing to bet that the admin of a 300 member list would like to
display by letter, but set the chuck size huge so they see an entire 
letter on one page.

> I like the latter idea which would allow, in the example of chunk size
> = 30, for a list of 31 to 60 members to be displayed in two pages
> rather than 20 or more. This can make it more difficult to find a
> particular member in a large list, but the 'Find member' function is
> probably better for this anyway.

That sounds good to me. In the case of small-ish lists, skimming 2 or
3 pages to find an email address is less likely to annoy than trying
to remember which letter to start with.

z!


From tmz at pobox.com  Sat Jun 10 02:42:06 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 20:42:06 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Members list settings
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006060917101602181ad0446a@msapiro>
References: <C0AF3AEB.CFD4%jwblist3@olympus.net>
	<PC17402006060917101602181ad0446a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060610004206.GD22998@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> I prefer however to think in terms of the RFEs on this which ask for
> various things from simply exposing the parameter in the web
> interface to providing a radio button selection (e.g. 20, 50, 100,
> all) on the pages to paginating without regard for the alphabet.
> 
> I like the latter idea which would allow, in the example of chunk
> size = 30, for a list of 31 to 60 members to be displayed in two
> pages rather than 20 or more. This can make it more difficult to
> find a particular member in a large list, but the 'Find member'
> function is probably better for this anyway.
> 
> Other thoughts?

I lean toward paginating without regard to the alphabet as well and
agree that finding a specific member is best done via the "find
member" search.

None of the lists I help manage are very large, all less than 2,000
members.  So those running larger lists may have good reasons for
preferring other defaults and options that I've never thought about.
And, of course, there are others that simply have different
preferences than I do even for the same size lists (or so I hear).

But it is a minor irritation every time I am in the web admin for a
list and just want to scan through it checking visually for things out
of the ordinary.  Fortunately, I have shell access (hell, root access)
everywhere I manage lists.  So I'm never unable to just open a
terminal and get the data I want.

- -- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
Whatever crushes individuality is despotism, by whatever name it may
be called.
    -- John Stuart Mill

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From eli.tuber at gmail.com  Sat Jun 10 04:02:12 2006
From: eli.tuber at gmail.com (Eli Tuber)
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 22:02:12 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Members list settings
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006060917101602181ad0446a@msapiro>
References: <C0AF3AEB.CFD4%jwblist3@olympus.net>
	<PC17402006060917101602181ad0446a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <ffbc31930606091902l4728898dsfa3487adc6e2e610@mail.gmail.com>

I actually like the idea that the user can control the breakdown size and
the amount of members that are listed per page. Personally as long as the
list is sorted finding the users should not be very hard on a moderate size
list.

This is my first time posting on this users group. What would it take to
have this changes take place? I could really use them for my groups. :-)

Thanks
ET


On 6/9/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> John W. Baxter wrote:
> >
> >I always worry about changing default values, but in this case the world
> has
> >changed.  Is 25 still the right default in this age when few list
> >owner/admin folks are on dialup?  Just one more thing to contemplate.
>
>
> Actually, the distributed default is 30, but your point is still valid.
>
> I prefer however to think in terms of the RFEs on this which ask for
> various things from simply exposing the parameter in the web interface
> to providing a radio button selection (e.g. 20, 50, 100, all) on the
> pages to paginating without regard for the alphabet.
>
> I like the latter idea which would allow, in the example of chunk size
> = 30, for a list of 31 to 60 members to be displayed in two pages
> rather than 20 or more. This can make it more difficult to find a
> particular member in a large list, but the 'Find member' function is
> probably better for this anyway.
>
> Other thoughts?
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/eli.tuber%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>


From danielbk at ornl.gov  Sat Jun 10 04:56:02 2006
From: danielbk at ornl.gov (Daniel, Barry K.)
Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 22:56:02 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Sendmail debugging questions
References: <890ECEBADF00794ABC9C94752F4C0CEB01D143D8@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>
	<4484723F.1060806@value.net>
	<890ECEBADF00794ABC9C94752F4C0CEBB08A6C@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>
	<4487BDE7.3000405@value.net>
	<890ECEBADF00794ABC9C94752F4C0CEBB08A6D@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>
	<448905BD.20702@value.net>
Message-ID: <890ECEBADF00794ABC9C94752F4C0CEBB08A70@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>

I've got the basic mailing list functionality working now!!!  I have been silly enough to look over a typo in my mm_cfg.py file for a couple of days now (SMTP_HOST, not SMPT_HOST).  I still need to turn mm-handler back on but I do not think that will be too hard.  Here is a description of how I have it set up if anyone is interested.
 
NOTE:  One thing to remember is that all mail is sent to domain.gov while all servers actually belong to domainpriv.gov.
 
We have Sun Messenger installed on ServerA.  It is the MTA between our inside domain and the outside world.  Mail comes in from the world to ServerA and is sent to ServerB to be virus scanned.  The scanned message is sent back to ServerA.  If it is a user address, the message is stored on ServerC (the mail store).  If it is a mailing list address, the message is forwarded to ServerD.  ServerD uses Mailman and has Sendmail as its local MTA.  I configured the Sendmail mailertable to accept all domain.gov mail and route it to local for now (uses aliases in /etc/aliases file), but should change it to mailman:localhost when I turn mm-handler back on.  Thus, the mail is accepted at ServerD and sent to Mailman.  Mailman then sends the message to all list members via the MTA on ServerA, not the local Sendmail MTA (SMTP_HOST='ServerA').  Thus, all users get their mailing list message.
 
Thanks for all of the help!!!!  It all makes sense now, but it certainly didn't just a few days ago.
 
I'll check back in when I try to tweak the Mailman install.

________________________________

From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net]
Sent: Fri 6/9/2006 1:23 AM
To: Daniel, Barry K.
Cc: Patrick Bogen; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: RE: RE: RE: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Sendmail debugging questions



Daniel, Barry K. wrote:
> Below in the /var/log/maillog file, why are the 4 posts sent to
> testlist-bounces?  I was assuming that there would be one post for
> each of the four list members (dud1,dud2,dud3,dud4).


That's right. Then the MTA returns a bounce to testlist-bounces for each
undeliverable address.


> Is it normal to
> see the testlist-bounces?


If there's a bounce.


> I have set up a mailertable on the
> receiving side of Sendmail that will accept all mail from domain.gov
> and send it to the mailman delivery agent.  On the sending side of
> Sendmail I do not use this mailertable and have set up a smart relay
> to relay the domain.gov messages to domainmta1 at domainpriv.gov and
> also set the Sendmail MTAHost on the send side to this same machine.
> I have verified that I can send email directly from the server that I
> have Mailman on to this remote MTA via Sendmail.
>
>
> I agree with your assessment that Mailman seems to be trying to post
> the message to the list members.  But, why is Mailman trying to relay
> through localhost.  I set up my DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST to be
> domainmta1 at domainpriv.gov in my mm_cfg.py file.  The localhost will
> not recognize the dud1 at domain.gov address but the
> domainmta1 at domainpriv.gov server should.  I have not overridden the
> default DELIVERY_MODULE="SMTPDirect".


Aha! DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST controls the domain exposed to the world for
mailing TO Mailman. It has nothing to do with what domain we connect to
for sending from Mailman. That is controlled by SMTPHOST which defaults
to 'localhost'. I'm assuming that domainmta1 at domainpriv.gov above is a
typo and you mean domainmta1.domainpriv.gov or maybe
domainmta.domainpriv.gov since that's what you seem to actually have for
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST. So assuming the Sendmail you want to send (not
receive) through is domainmta.domainpriv.gov, you want

SMTPHOST = 'domainmta.domainpriv.gov'

in mm_cfg.py.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun 10 16:53:47 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 07:53:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List owner not getting bounce notifications
In-Reply-To: <DC2E9B5C4981914E8362C8E8A4C8169E013EFBF5@ecsube2.ec-admin.easternct.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402006061007534709533b5a40e8@msapiro>

KENNEY, William P. (Info. Tech. Services) wrote:

>The owner is not receiving any notifications


Does the owner receive other notifications that might be enabled. I.e.
notifications of subscribe/unsubscribe, held messages, etc.?


>The owner address is correct
>
>The following is a smtp admin error:
>
>*******************
>The following recipient(s) could not be reached:
>
>      leb15 at psu.edu on 6/9/2006 10:52 AM
>            The e-mail account does not exist at the organization this
>message was sent to.  Check the e-mail address, or contact the recipient
>directly to find out the correct address.
>            < ecsulsvr.easternct.edu #5.1.1 SMTP; 550 5.1.1
><leb15 at psu.edu>... User unknown
>
>*******************
>
>This tells me that the system is sending mail, the other 25 were sent
>from the system without error. The list owner can contact the individual
>to get an updated address.
>
>The main problem is that the list owner isn't notified of the issue with
>the address.
>
>The numeric values on the bounce processing page are default, all no/yes
>values are set to yes.


Owners do not receive notifications of recognized individual bounces.
Owners are only notified (if requested) when a bounce is unrecognized
or a member is disabled due to bounce or ultimately unsubscribed due
to bounce.

Check Mailman's 'bounce' log to see if the bounces are being recorded.
If so, and if this has been going on for some time without the member
being disabled, consider adjusting the numeric settings to prevent
bounce info from going stale on this list.

It is also possible that VERP probes are enabled and there is an issue
with delivery to VERP-like addresses in your system. In this case, you
will see entries like "sending <listname> list probe to: <address>
(score 5.0 >= 5.0)" in the bounce log, followed by a reset of the
bounce score, but no disable. If this is the case, see the thread
"VERP active where it shouldn't" starting at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-June/051402.html>
for additional information.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun 10 18:02:14 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 09:02:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List owner not getting bounce notifications
In-Reply-To: <DC2E9B5C4981914E8362C8E8A4C8169E013EFBF6@ecsube2.ec-admin.easternct.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606100902140015abaf227d@msapiro>

KENNEY, William P. (Info. Tech. Services) wrote:

>This is a new list, so there haven't been many deliveries. The owner
>added the users herself and needs to know if anyone is actually
>receiving the mail from the list. She hasn't gotten anything from the
>server.
>
>When she asked if I could tell if the messages were being transmitted I
>had just received 4 smtp failure notifications as root on the system.
>Since her list has more than 4 users, I have to believe the rest went
>out.


Were these for 4 different addresses or 4 notices for 1 address. If
four different addresses, that modifies the details of what I say
below, but not the important message.

Anyway, from Mailman's point of view, the message 'went out' to all
recipients (unless there is some error in Mailman's 'smtp-failure' log
which I doubt), and subsequently, Mailman was notified that 4 messages
were not delivered to 1 recipient, or 1 message was not delivered to 4
recipients, or 2 messages were not delivered to 2 recipients, or ??


>I told her to add me to the list and send a test message out. If I
>receive it I'll know the system is working, if not I'll check with the
>network group to see if they have changed anything in the firewall.


Look in Mailman's 'bounce' log. You should see bounces recorded for the
four notices you received.

If so, after the 5th bounce for that user, the member's delivery will
be disabled and the owner will receive a 'disabled' notice with a copy
of the bounce, and after three weeks (and three notices to the
member), the member will be removed from the list and the owner will
be notified of that too.

You can also look in Mailman's 'smtp' log and see that posts are being
sent.

It seems as if posts are being sent to the entire list and one member
is bouncing. Ultimately, there is no way to know if the other members
are receiving the mail or not, but at least you know it is being
accepted by some remote SMTP server, and bounces are not being
returned.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun 10 20:48:54 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 11:48:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] If your list uses Topics, I need your help
Message-ID: <PC17402006061011485407810483a563@msapiro>

In Mailman 2.1.8 ane prior, there are several problems with Topics.

The help says that you can put keywords one per line in a topic regexp.
This does not work. Also, the Topics regexp is compiled in 'verbose'
mode which means that spaces which are intended to be significant in
the regexp must be inside a bracketed 'character class' or preceded by
a backslash, and hash mark ('#') which is not in a 'class' or preceded
by a backslash introduces a comment which is not part of the regexp.
This too is not mentioned in the help for Topics.

These things have caused problems for people wanting to use Topics.
Some people have figured out how to create topic regexps that work,
but it can be a tedious process to do this.

I propose to change this for Mailman 2.2. My thought is that topic
regexps will no longer be compiled in 'verbose' mode and that
multiline topic regexps will be joined with the OR operator ('|') when
compiled for use so that a topic regexp of, for example,

 one
 two
 three

will actually be equivalent to

 one|two|three

and will match a Subject: or Keywords: header/line containing any one
or more of the three words 'one', 'two' or 'three'.

The problem comes about with lists that have topic regexps which
currently span multiple lines and possible contain comments. An
example might be

 one|    # This is the first word in the list
 two|    # and the second
 three   # and the last, any one of which will match.

Clearly, I can't just join these lines with '|' and compile in
non-verbose mode as this would include the comments and
non-significant white space in the resulting pattern.

My proposal is to convert existing topic regexps to an equivalent,
single line, non-verbose regexp as the list is upgraded when the
instalation upgrades to 2.2, This would result in the above being
changed to

 one|two|three

which would be saved as the regexp for that Topic.

My question (the help I'm soliciting) is does anyone have a problem
with this? To the best of my ability to code it, the Topic would
continue to function exactly as before. The only visible change would
be that the contents of the Regexp box for that topic would change
from the multiline form with comments to a single line without
comments.

So, do you currently have any topic regexps on multiple lines and/or
with comments, and if so would you be disturbed if they were converted
to a single line with the comments and insignificant white space
stripped?

Also, if you have such, and the regexps are more complicated than the
above example, can you send the multiline regexp(s) to me for testing
(off list with subject "Mailman topic regexp" if you don't want to
post them).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun 10 23:33:28 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 14:33:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Members list settings
In-Reply-To: <ffbc31930606091902l4728898dsfa3487adc6e2e610@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006061014332806870483a4eb@msapiro>

Eli Tuber wrote:

>I actually like the idea that the user can control the breakdown size and
>the amount of members that are listed per page. Personally as long as the
>list is sorted finding the users should not be very hard on a moderate size
>list.
>
>This is my first time posting on this users group. What would it take to
>have this changes take place? I could really use them for my groups. :-)


The most effective easy thing would be to visit the existing RFE at
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=782436&group_id=103&atid=350103>
and add your comments and support for the idea.

You could also add a comment at
<http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Mailman+2.2>

The most effective but not easy thing is to implement it your self in a
style that is consistent with the existing Mailman base and submit it
as a patch. This requires in addition to the obvious knowledge of
Python programming, reading lots of Mailman code and the guides
"Python coding style guide for Mailman"
<http://barry.warsaw.us/software/STYLEGUIDE.txt> and "Style Guide for
Python Code" <http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sun Jun 11 00:39:36 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 18:39:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive sorting question
Message-ID: <448B4A28.9090807@yahoo.com>

When viewing a pipermail (MM 2.1.8) list archive by Date, is it normal 
for "Previous message" and "Next message" to navigate to the previous 
and next by Thread rather than by Date?

-Jim P.



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jun 11 01:50:13 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 16:50:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive sorting question
In-Reply-To: <448B4A28.9090807@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006061016501302656b1d2f36@msapiro>

Jim Popovitch wrote:

>When viewing a pipermail (MM 2.1.8) list archive by Date, is it normal 
>for "Previous message" and "Next message" to navigate to the previous 
>and next by Thread rather than by Date?


Yes. This is the way it works. There are periodic (monthly) index files
in thread, subject, author and date order, but there is only one HTML
file per message and that one file is linked from all four index
files, but the previous and next links are actually in the HTML
message file, and they are previous and next in thread regardless of
how you got to the message.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sun Jun 11 04:13:34 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 21:13:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive sorting question
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006061016501302656b1d2f36@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006061016501302656b1d2f36@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06200700c0b12c8f7291@[192.168.1.101]>

At 4:50 PM -0700 2006-06-10, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>  Yes. This is the way it works. There are periodic (monthly) index files
>  in thread, subject, author and date order, but there is only one HTML
>  file per message and that one file is linked from all four index
>  files, but the previous and next links are actually in the HTML
>  message file, and they are previous and next in thread regardless of
>  how you got to the message.

	Ahh.  In which case, we should probably change the tag info to 
indicate that the previous and next message are by thread.  Having a 
"(by thread)" comment after the "previous" and "next" links would 
probably be sufficient.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From daevid at daevid.com  Sun Jun 11 04:39:16 2006
From: daevid at daevid.com (Daevid Vincent)
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 19:39:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cleaning up dead addresses
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00606091109r7fcad50n941d14208a103455@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000301c68d00$4d641980$450a0a0a@locutus>

Yeah, except the problem is that most servers just silently "accept" on
behalf of that person. Ever get a bounce back from hotmail, AOL, or any
other big ISP? NO.

This is _exactly_ why I asked for a "re-confirm subscription" request. 
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1504204&group_id=10
3&atid=100103

:(

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman-users-bounces+daevid=daevid.com at python.org 
> [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+daevid=daevid.com at python.org] 
> On Behalf Of Patrick Bogen
> Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 11:10 AM
> To: Mark Sapiro
> Cc: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] cleaning up dead addresses
> 
> On 6/8/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> > >I was reviewing one of my lists today and recognize 
> several email addresses
> > >for recipients who are long since moved, and whose 
> addresses are likely
> > >dead.
> > >
> > >How does Mailman manage these?
> > In accord with the settings on the list admin Bounce 
> processing page.
> 
> To be a bit more precise, the way this works is that Mailman goes
> ahead and sends messages to these addresses. If the bounce (that is,
> the remove server sends a message back saying that the original
> message was undeliverable), bounce processing takes over. In general,
> after some number of bounces occur (not on the same day) within some
> time period, the account will be disabled, and eventually deleted.
> 
> -- 
> - Patrick Bogen
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/daevid%40
daevid.com
> 
> Security Policy: 
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq
01.027.htp
> 



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jun 11 05:06:51 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 20:06:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive sorting question
In-Reply-To: <p06200700c0b12c8f7291@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <PC174020060610200651042107669618@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:
>
>	Ahh.  In which case, we should probably change the tag info to 
>indicate that the previous and next message are by thread.  Having a 
>"(by thread)" comment after the "previous" and "next" links would 
>probably be sufficient.


I'm ready to make the change, but I wonder about the actual appearance.
Here's an example of the current

# Previous message: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Delivery Issue
# Next message: [Mailman-Users] Members list settings
# Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]

Brad seems to be suggesting something like

# Previous message: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Delivery Issue
# Next message: [Mailman-Users] Members list settings
  (by thread)
# Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]

I think I prefer something like

# Previous message (by thread): [Mailman-Users] Mailman Delivery Issue
# Next message (by thread): [Mailman-Users] Members list settings
# Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]

Any other thoughts/examples/opinions?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sun Jun 11 05:19:30 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 23:19:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive sorting question
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060610200651042107669618@msapiro>
References: <PC174020060610200651042107669618@msapiro>
Message-ID: <448B8BC2.1080109@yahoo.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
  > I think I prefer something like
> 
> # Previous message (by thread): [Mailman-Users] Mailman Delivery Issue
> # Next message (by thread): [Mailman-Users] Members list settings
> # Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]

This example makes sense to me.

-Jim P.



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jun 11 05:29:35 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 20:29:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cleaning up dead addresses
In-Reply-To: <000301c68d00$4d641980$450a0a0a@locutus>
Message-ID: <PC17402006061020293508597f5f865e@msapiro>

Daevid Vincent wrote:

>Yeah, except the problem is that most servers just silently "accept" on
>behalf of that person. Ever get a bounce back from hotmail, AOL, or any
>other big ISP? NO.


Actually, I see bounces from AOL all the time for lots of reasons
ranging from "non-existent user" to "we didn't like a URL in the body
of your message". What they don't bounce is messages they accept and
put in a 'spam' folder.


>This is _exactly_ why I asked for a "re-confirm subscription" request. 
>http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1504204&group_id=103&atid=100103


Which was just submitted as a bug and duplicates your RFE of a couple
of weeks ago at
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1495305&group_id=103&atid=350103>.

It doesn't really help to re-submit what is really a feature request as
a bug. It just clutters up the tracker and makes the task of fixing
things seem more daunting than it really is.

If you're just trying to ping us to see if we're paying attention, it
would be much better to add a comment to your original request.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From justbrits at comcast.net  Sun Jun 11 05:32:49 2006
From: justbrits at comcast.net (Ed)
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 22:32:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cleaning up dead addresses
References: <000301c68d00$4d641980$450a0a0a@locutus>
Message-ID: <001f01c68d07$b73f6330$6701a8c0@actualshop>

Are you serious, Daevid??

<<Ever get a bounce back from hotmail, AOL, or any
other big ISP? NO.
>>

AOL = LOTS!!!

PITA!!

Ed

From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sun Jun 11 10:46:09 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 03:46:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive sorting question
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060610200651042107669618@msapiro>
References: <PC174020060610200651042107669618@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06200701c0b188ae3db3@[192.168.2.144]>

At 8:06 PM -0700 2006-06-10, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>  I think I prefer something like
>
>  # Previous message (by thread): [Mailman-Users] Mailman Delivery Issue
>  # Next message (by thread): [Mailman-Users] Members list settings
>  # Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
>
>  Any other thoughts/examples/opinions?

	Now that I've seen the options, I like your idea best.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jun 11 17:45:27 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:45:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive sorting question
In-Reply-To: <p06200701c0b188ae3db3@[192.168.2.144]>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606110845270156989688b7@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>At 8:06 PM -0700 2006-06-10, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>>  I think I prefer something like
>>
>>  # Previous message (by thread): [Mailman-Users] Mailman Delivery Issue
>>  # Next message (by thread): [Mailman-Users] Members list settings
>>  # Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
>>
>>  Any other thoughts/examples/opinions?
>
>	Now that I've seen the options, I like your idea best.


It seems unanimous so I've committed the change in the Subversion trunk
for Mailman 2.2.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mail at onesir.com  Sun Jun 11 16:41:31 2006
From: mail at onesir.com (onesir mail)
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 09:41:31 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] newbie: Who is mailman@domain.com
Message-ID: <E1FpR87-0006Sh-C6@s19.s19avahost.net>

Hi,

My apologies in advance if this proves to be a silly question - please 
point me to the silly answer.

I have used cPanel X to set up a couple of one-way announcement 
mailing lists using mailman.  I have no problems with the general 
operation of mailman.

The mailman generated domain mailing lists page contains the following 
line:- 

If you are having trouble using the lists, please contact 
mailman at domain.com. (where domain is my own domain)

I have sent mail to this address but it seems to be lost in a black 
hole.  By default all unknown address e-mails sent to my domain end up 
in the webmaster inbox.

Does anyone know where mail sent to mailman at domain.com is routed?

Regards,


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jun 11 19:05:56 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 10:05:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] newbie: Who is mailman@domain.com
In-Reply-To: <E1FpR87-0006Sh-C6@s19.s19avahost.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606111005560281f53d7b31@msapiro>

onesir mail wrote:
>
>If you are having trouble using the lists, please contact 
>mailman at domain.com. (where domain is my own domain)
>
>I have sent mail to this address but it seems to be lost in a black 
>hole.  By default all unknown address e-mails sent to my domain end up 
>in the webmaster inbox.
>
>Does anyone know where mail sent to mailman at domain.com is routed?


mailman at domain.com is the site list for your mailman installation. It
is required that you have this list. In addition to being mentioned on
listinfo pages as you quote above, it is also the 'source' of password
reminders and certain other Mailman generated messages. This list
exists at your site or Mailman wouldn't run. You can see it's listinfo
page at something like <http:/domain.com/mailman/listinfo/mailman> and
you can administer it at <http:/domain.com/mailman/admin/mailman>
although at least initially, you'll probably need the site password to
log in.

The owner of this list should be set to the Mailman site administrator
who should also be a member of the list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jwblist3 at olympus.net  Sun Jun 11 20:03:20 2006
From: jwblist3 at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:03:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Members list settings
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006060917101602181ad0446a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <C0B1A8F8.D01B%jwblist3@olympus.net>

On 6/9/06 5:10 PM, "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> I like the latter idea which would allow, in the example of chunk size
> = 30, for a list of 31 to 60 members to be displayed in two pages
> rather than 20 or more. This can make it more difficult to find a
> particular member in a large list, but the 'Find member' function is
> probably better for this anyway.
> 
> Other thoughts?

I just put a supporting comment into the related RFE (782436).

However, we need to remember that we got to where we are because people
didn't like the old (1.0.x) way of doing this.  The page size choice might
have been the better way to fix that.

  --John




From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jun 11 20:18:00 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:18:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Members list settings
In-Reply-To: <C0B1A8F8.D01B%jwblist3@olympus.net>
Message-ID: <PC17402006061111180003753f71ccf7@msapiro>

John W. Baxter wrote:
>
>However, we need to remember that we got to where we are because people
>didn't like the old (1.0.x) way of doing this.  The page size choice might
>have been the better way to fix that.


Thanks for the history John. So far, nothing has been done towards an
implementation, but it is clear that something needs to be done.
Whether that something is just allowing control of members per page,
filling each page but the last or a combination is not yet clear.

I hope that interested people will add their ideas to the RFE
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=350103&aid=782436&group_id=103>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Sun Jun 11 20:59:47 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 11:59:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive sorting question
In-Reply-To: <448B8BC2.1080109@yahoo.com>
References: <PC174020060610200651042107669618@msapiro>
	<448B8BC2.1080109@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060611115907.07be3ca8@crimson-dragon.com>

Jim Popovitch sent the message below at 08:19 PM 6/10/2006:
>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>   > I think I prefer something like
> >
> > # Previous message (by thread): [Mailman-Users] Mailman Delivery Issue
> > # Next message (by thread): [Mailman-Users] Members list settings
> > # Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
>
>This example makes sense to me.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

And to me, it is clear and concise. It's also what I thought Brad 
meant when he proposed it.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 12 00:17:26 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 18:17:26 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive sorting question
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606110845270156989688b7@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200606110845270156989688b7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <448C9676.8050007@yahoo.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Brad Knowles wrote:
> 
>> At 8:06 PM -0700 2006-06-10, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>>>  I think I prefer something like
>>>
>>>  # Previous message (by thread): [Mailman-Users] Mailman Delivery Issue
>>>  # Next message (by thread): [Mailman-Users] Members list settings
>>>  # Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
>>>
>>>  Any other thoughts/examples/opinions?
>> 	Now that I've seen the options, I like your idea best.
> 
> 
> It seems unanimous so I've committed the change in the Subversion trunk
> for Mailman 2.2.

Thanks Mark, Brad too for his input.

Question:  Where can I make this change today to MM 2.1.8?

Thx,

-Jim P.


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 12 01:50:22 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 16:50:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive sorting question
In-Reply-To: <448C9676.8050007@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060611165022060989a61f97@msapiro>

Jim Popovitch wrote:
>
>Question:  Where can I make this change today to MM 2.1.8?


Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py

--- HyperArch.py	(revision 7893)
+++ HyperArch.py	(working copy)
@@ -493,7 +493,7 @@
             subject = self._get_subject_enc(self.prev)
             prev = ('<LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="%s">'
                     % (url_quote(self.prev.filename)))
-            prev_wsubj = ('<LI>' + _('Previous message:') +
+            prev_wsubj = ('<LI>' + _('Previous message (by thread):') +
                           ' <A HREF="%s">%s\n</A></li>'
                           % (url_quote(self.prev.filename),
                              self.quote(subject)))
@@ -515,7 +515,7 @@
             subject = self._get_subject_enc(self.next)
             next = ('<LINK REL="Next"  HREF="%s">'
                     % (url_quote(self.next.filename)))
-            next_wsubj = ('<LI>' + _('Next message:') +
+            next_wsubj = ('<LI>' + _('Next message (by thread):') +
                           ' <A HREF="%s">%s\n</A></li>'
                           % (url_quote(self.next.filename),
                              self.quote(subject)))


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From daevid at daevid.com  Mon Jun 12 07:36:21 2006
From: daevid at daevid.com (Daevid Vincent)
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 22:36:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cleaning up dead addresses
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006061020293508597f5f865e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <002801c68de2$34fbf290$450a0a0a@locutus>

> >This is _exactly_ why I asked for a "re-confirm 
> subscription" request. 
> >http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1504
> 204&group_id=103&atid=100103
> 
> 
> Which was just submitted as a bug and duplicates your RFE of a couple
> of weeks ago at
> <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1495
> 305&group_id=103&atid=350103>.
> 
> It doesn't really help to re-submit what is really a feature 
> request as
> a bug. It just clutters up the tracker and makes the task of fixing
> things seem more daunting than it really is.
> 
> If you're just trying to ping us to see if we're paying attention, it
> would be much better to add a comment to your original request.

No, I actually did search for my previous entry, as I could swear I had
entered one, but couldn't find it. Honest Injun I looked via several key
words and even tried to find via my 'username'. So I thought perhaps I
THOUGHT I entered one, but it never actually got submitted or something
(like as in CGI error or timeout or who knows)...

Sorry for the duplicate entry. It was not my intention.

D



From kaushalshriyan at gmail.com  Mon Jun 12 11:02:03 2006
From: kaushalshriyan at gmail.com (Kaushal Shriyan)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:32:03 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GNU Mailman
Message-ID: <6b16fb4c0606120202s4205bdbal65f0511f64bf5f3d@mail.gmail.com>

Hi ALL

I am a newbie to install GNU Mailman, I have downloaded mailman-2.1.8.tgz
Just wanted to know the step by step guide to install Mailman

Thank You

Regards

Kaushal


From hmag at ozemail.com.au  Mon Jun 12 11:06:07 2006
From: hmag at ozemail.com.au (Terry Allen)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:06:07 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GNU Mailman
In-Reply-To: <6b16fb4c0606120202s4205bdbal65f0511f64bf5f3d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6b16fb4c0606120202s4205bdbal65f0511f64bf5f3d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06230902c0b2debfad03@[203.53.37.182]>

>Hi ALL
>
>I am a newbie to install GNU Mailman, I have downloaded mailman-2.1.8.tgz
>Just wanted to know the step by step guide to install Mailman
>
>Thank You
>
>Regards
>
Hi again,
	The instructions are included in the document named Intsall 
within the archive you downloaded, but there are numerous guides 
available online - do a search for something like 'Step By Step 
installation Mailman'
-- 

	Bye for now, Terry Allen 
	___________________________________________________________________
hEARd

Postal Address:
	hEARd, 26B Glenning Rd,	Glenning Valley, NSW 2261, Australia
Internet -
	WWW: http://heard.com.au http://itavservices.com
EMAIL: hmag at ozemail.com.au
Phone: Australia - 02 4388 1400 / International - + 61 2 43881400
Mobile: Australia - 04 28881400 / International - 61 4 28881400
-----------------------------------------------
Non profit promotion for new music - since 1994
-----------------------------------------------


From lists at videonetwork.org  Mon Jun 12 13:11:42 2006
From: lists at videonetwork.org (Ben Edwards (lists))
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 12:11:42 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] retreving main list password
Message-ID: <1150110702.5081.37.camel@localhost.localdomain>

I have a server with mailman on it.  Is there a way of retrieving the
main list password?  

Ben




From it-support at asta.tu-darmstadt.de  Mon Jun 12 15:40:01 2006
From: it-support at asta.tu-darmstadt.de (IT-Support @ AStA TU Darmstadt)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 15:40:01 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman web-frontend on different server than
	mailserver
Message-ID: <448D6EB1.5090808@asta.tu-darmstadt.de>

Hello,

i have a tricky problem:

Our mail- and webserver crashed and after a restore apache isn't running
yet - it will still take some time to fix it on the origin server (so
the web-frontend of mailman isn't working)- so we set up apache on a new
machine.
The problem is, that after the installation of mailman on the new
machine, mailman logicly looks on the localhost for lists etc.

What I want is (if possible) to use the mailman installation on the new
server, but to take the lists and configs from the origin server - if
this isn't possible - I would try to transfer everything to the new
server - but the problem is that I CAN'T TRANSFER the mailserver!!!

Incoming mails are still recieved by the origin server (postfix) an I
don't know how to tell postfix/mailman that mailman now is on a
different server in the LAN an it has to pass over all mailman commands
to the new server...

Any suggestions?

Thanks a lot!

Ivan




From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 12 16:23:42 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 07:23:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cleaning up dead addresses
In-Reply-To: <002801c68de2$34fbf290$450a0a0a@locutus>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606120723420937cf35b433@msapiro>

Daevid Vincent wrote:
>
>No, I actually did search for my previous entry, as I could swear I had
>entered one, but couldn't find it. Honest Injun I looked via several key
>words and even tried to find via my 'username'. So I thought perhaps I
>THOUGHT I entered one, but it never actually got submitted or something
>(like as in CGI error or timeout or who knows)...


Possibly you were searching only in bugs, not in feature requests. It
is possible to search the entire mailman tracker by clicking
"advanced" sext to the project (not the global) 'search' button, but
the detailed 'browse' search only searches the current category.


>Sorry for the duplicate entry. It was not my intention.


Understood. Thanks for the clarification.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 12 16:41:43 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 07:41:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] retreving main list password
In-Reply-To: <1150110702.5081.37.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606120741430796b540e3e7@msapiro>

Ben Edwards (lists) wrote:

>I have a server with mailman on it.  Is there a way of retrieving the
>main list password?  


You can't retrieve it, but you can set a new one with bin/change_pw or
by using the site password to access the list and change the list
password. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.008.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jperrie at us.ibm.com  Mon Jun 12 16:59:24 2006
From: jperrie at us.ibm.com (Joseph Perrie)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:59:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with To Header
In-Reply-To: <p0620070ac0afbf542038@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <OFA3FBA96F.563E2F56-ON8625718B.0051C1CC-8625718B.00525550@us.ibm.com>

Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> wrote on 06/09/2006 07:17:26 PM:

> You may think it does, but in fact everyone else will turn around
> and do to you exactly what your own server was doing.

Actually, the solution does work for me because our server is only on our
Intranet.

> You have to get the DNS fixed.  That's the *only* solution.

So, change the hostname from an A record to a CNAME?

Tony



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 12 17:25:07 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 08:25:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] newbie: Who is mailman@domain.com
In-Reply-To: <000801c68ddc$f9928b10$0201a8c0@sun>
Message-ID: <PC174020060612082507007849a98435@msapiro>

onesir mail wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:

>>onesir mail wrote:

>> >Unfortunately lots of web-sites are co-hosted at this site all with a
>>>central mailman administration.  I expect users who send a message to
>>>mailman at mydomain.com expect the message to be routed to me.  It seems
>>>impractical for a couple of hundred distinct web-sites to share a
>>>central mailman admin list.  Oh well.
>>
>>
>> Yes, that is a problem when several domains share the same Mailman
>> installation.
>>
>> I suggest that you subscribe to the mailman list. The site
>> administration should allow any domain administrator to subscribe.
>> That way you will receive messages sent to mailman at mydomain.com, and
>> those sent to mailman at the.other.domains,com as well, and you can
>> filter out the others and see those of interest to you.
>
>I have applied to subscribe.  I suspect our list isn't actively monitored as 
>I haven't heard anything yet (12 hours).  There may well be privacy issues 
>with receiving mailman messages for other domains (one suspects that the 
>bulk of the traffic would be complaints).


I had another thought. You said you are on a cPanel installation. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>
and understand from that that I may well not know what I'm talking
about, but cPanel has patched Mailman to support lists of the same
name in different domains. The site list is quite likely an area that
is handled differently, but you could try just creating a
mailman at mydomain.com list (which cPanel will create with an internal
name of mailman_mydomain.com) and see if it will receive mail sent to
the mailman at mydomain.com address.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mail at onesir.com  Mon Jun 12 18:07:47 2006
From: mail at onesir.com (onesir mail)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:07:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] newbie: Who is mailman@domain.com
Message-ID: <E1Fpox9-0006k4-0h@s19.s19avahost.net>

Hi Mark,

Yes.  That solved the problem.  I used cPanel X to create a list 
called mailman in mydomain and I now receive messages sent to 
mailman at mydomain.com.

This is much more useful then having such messages disappear into a 
blackhole.

Thanks for your time and help.

Regards,

> onesir mail wrote:
> 
> >Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
> >>onesir mail wrote:
> 
> >> >Unfortunately lots of web-sites are co-hosted at this site all 
with a
> >>>central mailman administration.  I expect users who send a 
message to
> >>>mailman at mydomain.com expect the message to be routed to me.  It 
seems
> >>>impractical for a couple of hundred distinct web-sites to share a
> >>>central mailman admin list.  Oh well.
> >>
> >>
> >> Yes, that is a problem when several domains share the same Mailman
> >> installation.
> >>
> >> I suggest that you subscribe to the mailman list. The site
> >> administration should allow any domain administrator to subscribe.
> >> That way you will receive messages sent to mailman at mydomain.com, 
and
> >> those sent to mailman at the.other.domains,com as well, and you can
> >> filter out the others and see those of interest to you.
> >
> >I have applied to subscribe.  I suspect our list isn't actively 
monitored as 
> >I haven't heard anything yet (12 hours).  There may well be privacy 
issues 
> >with receiving mailman messages for other domains (one suspects 
that the 
> >bulk of the traffic would be complaints).
> 
> 
> I had another thought. You said you are on a cPanel installation. See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?
req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>
> and understand from that that I may well not know what I'm talking
> about, but cPanel has patched Mailman to support lists of the same
> name in different domains. The site list is quite likely an area that
> is handled differently, but you could try just creating a
> mailman at mydomain.com list (which cPanel will create with an internal
> name of mailman_mydomain.com) and see if it will receive mail sent to
> the mailman at mydomain.com address.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. 
Dylan
> 
> 
> 




From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Jun 12 18:29:15 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:29:15 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with To Header
In-Reply-To: <OFA3FBA96F.563E2F56-ON8625718B.0051C1CC-8625718B.00525550@us.ibm.
	com>
References: <OFA3FBA96F.563E2F56-ON8625718B.0051C1CC-8625718B.00525550@us.ibm.
	com>
Message-ID: <p06200703c0b346937214@[192.168.2.144]>

At 9:59 AM -0500 2006-06-12, Joseph Perrie wrote:

>>  You may think it does, but in fact everyone else will turn around
>>  and do to you exactly what your own server was doing.
>
>  Actually, the solution does work for me because our server is only on our
>  Intranet.

	Is it the only server?  Can you guarantee that there will only 
ever be the one server?

>>  You have to get the DNS fixed.  That's the *only* solution.
>
>  So, change the hostname from an A record to a CNAME?

	No, dump the CNAME.  Use exclusively A records.  And make sure 
that the forward and reverse match -- if this means you need to have 
multiple reverse records, then do so.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 12 18:48:27 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:48:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman web-frontend on different server
	thanmailserver
In-Reply-To: <448D6EB1.5090808@asta.tu-darmstadt.de>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606120948270390ff7533e1@msapiro>

IT-Support @ AStA TU Darmstadt wrote:
>
>i have a tricky problem:
>
>Our mail- and webserver crashed and after a restore apache isn't running
>yet - it will still take some time to fix it on the origin server (so
>the web-frontend of mailman isn't working)- so we set up apache on a new
>machine.
>The problem is, that after the installation of mailman on the new
>machine, mailman logicly looks on the localhost for lists etc.
>
>What I want is (if possible) to use the mailman installation on the new
>server, but to take the lists and configs from the origin server


This is possible using NFS, but I have a hard time imagining how
setting it up and getting it working would be quicker than getting the
web server up on the original machine.


> - if
>this isn't possible - I would try to transfer everything to the new
>server - but the problem is that I CAN'T TRANSFER the mailserver!!!
>
>Incoming mails are still recieved by the origin server (postfix) an I
>don't know how to tell postfix/mailman that mailman now is on a
>different server in the LAN an it has to pass over all mailman commands
>to the new server...


In general, you need to have an MTA on the Mailman machine to deliver
mail to Mailman. You need to somehow configure Postfix on the original
machine to relay list mail to the new machine. How to do this is a
Postfix question that I don't know the answer to, unless your lists
have their own domain in which case you can change the DNS for that
domain to point to the Mailman machine.

Alternatively, you can configure Postfix on the old machine to deliver
to local mailboxes and use something like fetchmail on the new machine
to retrieve the mail and deliver it to Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dandrews at visi.com  Mon Jun 12 19:57:45 2006
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 12:57:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some Subscribers Receiving 2 Copies of Each Message
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060612125354.02b9a8a0@visi.com>

I run a Sun Cobalt RAQ 550 with about 90 Mailman lists on it, each of 
which generally has between 100 and 300 subscribers.

Occasionally, I get a subscriber who says that they are receiving two 
copies of each and every message posted to a given list.  It even 
happened to me for a while, on one small not very active list.

Currently I am working with a user, who is technically reliable, he 
is only subscribed to one list from one address, and has never been 
subscribed to any other of our lists.  He receives two copies of each 
message to the list he is subscribed too, and since it runs about 150 
messages a day, he is getting annoyed.  Others on the list do not 
have this problem, but he forwarded two copies of a message to me, so 
I know it is true for him.  The messages looked identical to me.

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance.

Dave



David Andrews and white cane Harry.




From pdbogen at gmail.com  Mon Jun 12 20:01:05 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 13:01:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some Subscribers Receiving 2 Copies of Each
	Message
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060612125354.02b9a8a0@visi.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060612125354.02b9a8a0@visi.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606121101w9b879b1qfd6921bc09dba433@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/12/06, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
> subscribed to any other of our lists.  He receives two copies of each
> message to the list he is subscribed too, and since it runs about 150
> messages a day, he is getting annoyed.  Others on the list do not
> have this problem, but he forwarded two copies of a message to me, so
> I know it is true for him.  The messages looked identical to me.
>
> Any ideas?
>

In the past, these symptoms have been caused by having client-side
filtering rules that inadvertantly duplicate the message. Could this
be the problem in your case?

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From jwblist3 at olympus.net  Mon Jun 12 20:09:21 2006
From: jwblist3 at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:09:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some Subscribers Receiving 2 Copies of Each
 Message
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060612125354.02b9a8a0@visi.com>
Message-ID: <C0B2FBE1.D058%jwblist3@olympus.net>

On 6/12/06 10:57 AM, "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:

> Others on the list do not
> have this problem, but he forwarded two copies of a message to me, so
> I know it is true for him.  The messages looked identical to me.

Start by examining the Received: headers on the two copies of a duplicated
message.  The point where they diverge, reading bottom up, (if they do) is
the point at which the duplication happens.  If they don't diverge at all,
then the problem happens after the last recorded Received: header, meaning
as the messages go into his mailbox or after he retrieves them.

  --John




From chad at shire.net  Mon Jun 12 19:59:55 2006
From: chad at shire.net (Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:59:55 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some Subscribers Receiving 2 Copies of Each
	Message
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060612125354.02b9a8a0@visi.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060612125354.02b9a8a0@visi.com>
Message-ID: <C3F13989-8FF5-421D-9275-474A2E66DD38@shire.net>


On Jun 12, 2006, at 11:57 AM, David Andrews wrote:

> I run a Sun Cobalt RAQ 550 with about 90 Mailman lists on it, each of
> which generally has between 100 and 300 subscribers.
>
> Occasionally, I get a subscriber who says that they are receiving two
> copies of each and every message posted to a given list.  It even
> happened to me for a while, on one small not very active list.
>
> Currently I am working with a user, who is technically reliable, he
> is only subscribed to one list from one address, and has never been
> subscribed to any other of our lists.  He receives two copies of each
> message to the list he is subscribed too, and since it runs about 150
> messages a day, he is getting annoyed.  Others on the list do not
> have this problem, but he forwarded two copies of a message to me, so
> I know it is true for him.  The messages looked identical to me.

Compare the headers.  Check your MTA outgoing logs and match message  
id(s) to the instances in the log.  You should be able to tell if  
your end is sending it out more than once, most likely, or if his end  
is duplicating it (perhaps bad spam filtering?).

Chad


---
Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC
Your Web App and Email hosting provider
chad at shire.net





From jperrie at us.ibm.com  Mon Jun 12 20:36:07 2006
From: jperrie at us.ibm.com (Joseph Perrie)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 13:36:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with To Header
In-Reply-To: <p06200703c0b346937214@[192.168.2.144]>
Message-ID: <OF2876A38B.4C2ACBC7-ON8625718B.00657E33-8625718B.00662C75@us.ibm.com>

I thought that Bind allows multiple aliases and CNAMEs for an IP address,
but only one reverse lookup.  Are you suggesting I should use multiple IP
addresses for the host?

Tony Perrie
Engineer, STI Convergence Team, BQQA
11501 Burnet Rd, Building 906/3007C Austin, TX, 78759
Phone: 512-838-1402, T/L: 678-1402
Fax: 512-838-2132

Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> wrote on 06/12/2006 11:29:15 AM:

> At 9:59 AM -0500 2006-06-12, Joseph Perrie wrote:
>
> >>  You may think it does, but in fact everyone else will turn around
> >>  and do to you exactly what your own server was doing.
> >
> >  Actually, the solution does work for me because our server is only on
our
> >  Intranet.
>
>    Is it the only server?  Can you guarantee that there will only
> ever be the one server?
> h
> >>  You have to get the DNS fixed.  That's the *only* solution.
> >
> >  So, change the hostname from an A record to a CNAME?
>
>    No, dump the CNAME.  Use exclusively A records.  And make sure
> that the forward and reverse match -- if this means you need to have
> multiple reverse records, then do so.
>
> --
> Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
>
> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
>
>      -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
>      Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
>
>   LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.



From chad at shire.net  Mon Jun 12 22:17:34 2006
From: chad at shire.net (Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:17:34 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with To Header
In-Reply-To: <OF2876A38B.4C2ACBC7-ON8625718B.00657E33-8625718B.00662C75@us.ibm.com>
References: <OF2876A38B.4C2ACBC7-ON8625718B.00657E33-8625718B.00662C75@us.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <9B88D6FE-B1E6-4B4E-ADDF-A1241BD07998@shire.net>


On Jun 12, 2006, at 12:36 PM, Joseph Perrie wrote:

> I thought that Bind allows multiple aliases and CNAMEs for an IP  
> address,
> but only one reverse looku

You can have multiple reverse lookups

 > set type=ptr
 > 166.70.252.250
Server:         166.70.252.134
Address:        166.70.252.134#53

250.252.70.166.in-addr.arpa     name = mail.freestylefund.com.
250.252.70.166.in-addr.arpa     name = mail.shire.net.
 >



> p.  Are you suggesting I should use multiple IP
> addresses for the host?
>
> Tony Perrie
> Engineer, STI Convergence Team, BQQA
> 11501 Burnet Rd, Building 906/3007C Austin, TX, 78759
> Phone: 512-838-1402, T/L: 678-1402
> Fax: 512-838-2132
>
> Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> wrote on 06/12/2006  
> 11:29:15 AM:
>
>> At 9:59 AM -0500 2006-06-12, Joseph Perrie wrote:
>>
>>>>  You may think it does, but in fact everyone else will turn around
>>>>  and do to you exactly what your own server was doing.
>>>
>>>  Actually, the solution does work for me because our server is  
>>> only on
> our
>>>  Intranet.
>>
>>    Is it the only server?  Can you guarantee that there will only
>> ever be the one server?
>> h
>>>>  You have to get the DNS fixed.  That's the *only* solution.
>>>
>>>  So, change the hostname from an A record to a CNAME?
>>
>>    No, dump the CNAME.  Use exclusively A records.  And make sure
>> that the forward and reverse match -- if this means you need to have
>> multiple reverse records, then do so.
>>
>> --
>> Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
>>
>> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
>> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
>>
>>      -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
>>      Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
>>
>>   LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users% 
> 40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ 
> chad%40shire.net
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? 
> req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

---
Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC
Your Web App and Email hosting provider
chad at shire.net





From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Jun 13 04:26:14 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 21:26:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with To Header
In-Reply-To: <OF2876A38B.4C2ACBC7-ON8625718B.00657E33-8625718B.00662C75@us.ibm.
	com>
References: <OF2876A38B.4C2ACBC7-ON8625718B.00657E33-8625718B.00662C75@us.ibm.
	com>
Message-ID: <p06200704c0b3d26236ae@[192.168.2.144]>

At 1:36 PM -0500 2006-06-12, Joseph Perrie wrote:

>  I thought that Bind allows multiple aliases and CNAMEs for an IP address,
>  but only one reverse lookup.  Are you suggesting I should use multiple IP
>  addresses for the host?

	BIND doesn't care.  The DNS specification allows as many IP 
addresses as you want for a given name, and as many reverse records 
as you want for each IP address.

	That said, many applications cannot handle more than one reverse 
record for a given IP address, but that is the problem of the 
application -- BIND doesn't care.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From jon at corporates.com  Tue Jun 13 09:24:25 2006
From: jon at corporates.com (jon lanclos)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 02:24:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web based interface not working
Message-ID: <C0B3D259.10921%jon@corporates.com>

I try and use the login of ...

<server.domain.tld>/mailman/admin/<listname>

I have a list called everyone and leasing. I cannot login as administrator
and edit the list, nor can I respond to administrative alerts  which are
sent to me as the administrator.

I'm getting admin mail which looks like this ...

----
The Everyone at mail.corporates.com mailing list has 6 request(s) waiting
for your consideration at:

    http://mail.corporates.com/mailman/admindb/everyone
    
Please attend to this at your earliest convenience.  This notice of
pending requests, if any, will be sent out daily.

----

When I click on the link to go to the web interface - I get the following
message ...

Safari can?t open the page
?http://mail.corporates.com/mailman/admindb/everyone? because it could not
connect to the server ?mail.corporates.com?.

Anyone have any suggestions? Please.

Jon @ corporates.com




From campbell at cnpapers.com  Tue Jun 13 15:06:09 2006
From: campbell at cnpapers.com (Steve Campbell)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:06:09 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
Message-ID: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71>

I may have a need to throttle the output of a list which sends out about 
22,000 emails when called upon. I have tried the milter-limit from Snert, 
and it seems to work, but since this is designed mostly for incoming-limits 
as opposed to outgoing, I'm not sure what the consequences are for Mailman.

I have run a test on this to verify some sense of proof-of-concept, but only 
a mild test, before questions starting being raised. I have taken the 
questions as far as possible with the milter-limit pros, and now need to 
confirm how Mailman might be handling this.

The scenario is like this: I set an output limit for the Mailman user 
through the milter (messages/time limit). I then send an announcement to the 
large-member list to be distributed. Mainman generates the outgoing email, 
and the milter takes over and throttles the output based on the 
messages/time limit setting. A lot of this depends on how Mailman generates 
the outgoing email and how it will respond to the temporary failures for 
retry.

This works on the very simple test of setting 2 messages per 10 minutes, and 
having sent 3 separate emails. The throttle worked (minus Mailman output). 
But what will Mailman do when I send to 20,000 and the milter starts 
temp-failing after the limit is reached? Does it see these as bounces? Will 
it insert the pending emails into the sendmail queue or fail?

Does anyone have a suggestion for throttling?

Thanks for anything offered.


Steve Campbell
campbell at cnpapers.com
Charleston Newspapers




From hdu at qualigo.de  Tue Jun 13 15:12:49 2006
From: hdu at qualigo.de (Haluk Durmus)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 16:12:49 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] edit held messages
Message-ID: <20060613161249.ea9f0fb2.hdu@qualigo.de>

Hello,

Is it posible to configure mailman to edit mails waiting for approval ?

thx.
Haluk


From bernd at firmix.at  Tue Jun 13 15:17:00 2006
From: bernd at firmix.at (Bernd Petrovitsch)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:17:00 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
In-Reply-To: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
References: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
Message-ID: <1150204620.3125.8.camel@tara.firmix.at>

On Tue, 2006-06-13 at 09:06 -0400, Steve Campbell wrote:
[...]
> Does anyone have a suggestion for throttling?

Just store the 22.000 outgoing mails in the mail queue (every decent MTA
should be able to do that unconditionally) and wait for the next queue
run?

	Bernd
-- 
Firmix Software GmbH                   http://www.firmix.at/
mobil: +43 664 4416156                 fax: +43 1 7890849-55
          Embedded Linux Development and Services



From f3402vy02 at sneakemail.com  Tue Jun 13 16:10:42 2006
From: f3402vy02 at sneakemail.com (Michael)
Date: 13 Jun 2006 14:10:42 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman as list-admin
Message-ID: <14048-53782@sneakemail.com>

Hello,

I just installed mailman and now I want to create some lists, but I want to use mailman more or less as a distribution-list-admin-tool + mail-archive.
So I want to
- create the listmembers (no welcome-message should be seent to them)
- only I am allowed to send mail to the list (is there a web-interface to do this?)
- no mails to listmembers like "don't forget: you are registered to the list xxx ..."

is this possible? what option do I have to look for!

thanks for any help!

michi


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jun 13 16:41:16 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:41:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman as list-admin
In-Reply-To: <14048-53782@sneakemail.com>
References: <14048-53782@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606130741p2ecbb8c5n689f25ea7da0158b@mail.gmail.com>

On 13 Jun 2006 14:10:42 -0000, Michael <f3402vy02 at sneakemail.com> wrote:
> - create the listmembers (no welcome-message should be seent to them)
http://<host>/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/<listname>/members/add
Choose 'No' for 'Send welcome messages...' and 'Send notifications...'

> - only I am allowed to send mail to the list (is there a web-interface to do this?)
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.011.htp

> - no mails to listmembers like "don't forget: you are registered to the list xxx ..."
http://<host>/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/<listname>/general
'send_reminders' set to 'No'

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jun 13 16:44:26 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:44:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
In-Reply-To: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
References: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606130744j4edc4517l74de1b3e123e84a6@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/13/06, Steve Campbell <campbell at cnpapers.com> wrote:
> But what will Mailman do when I send to 20,000 and the milter starts
> temp-failing after the limit is reached? Does it see these as bounces? Will
> it insert the pending emails into the sendmail queue or fail?
>

Assuming your MTA returns a failure code indicating a temporary
failure (a 400-series error? someone correct me if I'm wrong...),
mailman should drop the message into the 'retry' queue and try again
some time (fifteen minutes?) later. Realize, of course, that unless
your MTA is limiting by number of recipients, each mailman 'mail' may
include several hundred recipients (unless you've turned on
personalization. Which, for a 20,000 member list, probably isn't a
very good idea).

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jun 13 16:46:24 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:46:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] edit held messages
In-Reply-To: <20060613161249.ea9f0fb2.hdu@qualigo.de>
References: <20060613161249.ea9f0fb2.hdu@qualigo.de>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606130746y6f7f7f8bwb07f8396b2cfb691@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/13/06, Haluk Durmus <hdu at qualigo.de> wrote:
> Is it posible to configure mailman to edit mails waiting for approval ?

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.009.htp

(P.S. to our FAQ managing-type folks: A search for 'edit held' or
'edit held message' didn't bring up this FAQ entry, with the default
search settings. Switching to 'keywords (any)' worked alright. I'm not
sure if this is considered an issue.)

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jun 13 16:56:23 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:56:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web based interface not working
In-Reply-To: <C0B3D259.10921%jon@corporates.com>
References: <C0B3D259.10921%jon@corporates.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606130756l2e065266uc182ae9bf7d77a14@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/13/06, jon lanclos <jon at corporates.com> wrote:
>     http://mail.corporates.com/mailman/admindb/everyone
<snip>
> Safari can?t open the page
> ?http://mail.corporates.com/mailman/admindb/everyone? because it could not
> connect to the server ?mail.corporates.com?.
>

Assuming that 'mail.corporates.com' is, in fact, the correct hostname
for your mail server, it would seem like you aren't running Apache (or
some other web server) to provide access to the web interface.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From hdu at qualigo.de  Tue Jun 13 17:13:13 2006
From: hdu at qualigo.de (Haluk Durmus)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 18:13:13 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] edit held messages
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00606130746y6f7f7f8bwb07f8396b2cfb691@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20060613161249.ea9f0fb2.hdu@qualigo.de>
	<6fbe3da00606130746y6f7f7f8bwb07f8396b2cfb691@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060613181313.779ee921.hdu@qualigo.de>

On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:46:24 -0500
"Patrick Bogen" <pdbogen at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 6/13/06, Haluk Durmus <hdu at qualigo.de> wrote:
> > Is it posible to configure mailman to edit mails waiting for approval ?
> 
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.009.htp
> 
> (P.S. to our FAQ managing-type folks: A search for 'edit held' or
> 'edit held message' didn't bring up this FAQ entry, with the default
> search settings. Switching to 'keywords (any)' worked alright. I'm not
> sure if this is considered an issue.)
> 
> -- 
> - Patrick Bogen
> 


I'm looking for a chance to do it with the admin interface.
Forwarding mails and then reforwarding mail or editing the mails on filesystem,
is not very userfriedly and not practicable for our use.

thanks,
Haluk 


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jun 13 17:16:59 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 10:16:59 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] edit held messages
In-Reply-To: <20060613181313.779ee921.hdu@qualigo.de>
References: <20060613161249.ea9f0fb2.hdu@qualigo.de>
	<6fbe3da00606130746y6f7f7f8bwb07f8396b2cfb691@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060613181313.779ee921.hdu@qualigo.de>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606130816w13c5e589gf89837a1f284415e@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/13/06, Haluk Durmus <hdu at qualigo.de> wrote:
> I'm looking for a chance to do it with the admin interface.

As far as I know, there is currently no way to do this. (The
previously linked FAQ entry corroborates this.)

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 13 17:23:15 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 08:23:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] edit held messages
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00606130746y6f7f7f8bwb07f8396b2cfb691@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606130823150781a3aa5b1c@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:
>
>(P.S. to our FAQ managing-type folks: A search for 'edit held' or
>'edit held message' didn't bring up this FAQ entry, with the default
>search settings. Switching to 'keywords (any)' worked alright. I'm not
>sure if this is considered an issue.)


Two things here.

We are all FAQ maintainers. The FAQ is maintained by the community on
the honor system, much like a wiki. The password is right there on the
bottom of every page.

Regarding search, I don't think this is an issue. If you search for
"edit held" as a simple string and the entry does not contain that
exact string (because it contains "edit a held message"), it won't
match. That's why you have the option to say your search entry is
individual words to match (Keywords any or all), or a regular
expression.

If you are suggesting that the term "Simple string" would better be
described as "Exact phrase" or something similar, you may be correct,
but getting this actually changed on python.org is a 'windmill' I'll
leave to someone else.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From phanh at canby.k12.or.us  Tue Jun 13 17:25:49 2006
From: phanh at canby.k12.or.us (Hung Phan)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 08:25:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman as list-admin
In-Reply-To: <14048-53782@sneakemail.com>
References: <14048-53782@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <2415C978-BB6D-48E3-82A2-F542EED9D60B@canby.k12.or.us>

On Jun 13, 2006, at 7:10 AM, Michael wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I just installed mailman and now I want to create some lists, but I  
> want to use mailman more or less as a distribution-list-admin-tool  
> + mail-archive.
> So I want to
> - create the listmembers (no welcome-message should be seent to them)
You can do that in the General Options page (Send welcome message to  
newly subscribed members option) or the Mass Subscription page.
> - only I am allowed to send mail to the list (is there a web- 
> interface to do this?)
Set every member bit to "mod" in Member page. Please looking for help  
page on mailman python, I believe there is more options that you have  
to set for it to withheld every post except yours.
> - no mails to listmembers like "don't forget: you are registered to  
> the list xxx ..."
Not sure what you meant by this question?
> is this possible? what option do I have to look for!
>
> thanks for any help!
>
> michi
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users% 
> 40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ 
> phanh%40canby.k12.or.us
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? 
> req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 13 17:27:10 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 08:27:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] edit held messages
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00606130816w13c5e589gf89837a1f284415e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606130827100921a3aa5ba3@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:

>On 6/13/06, Haluk Durmus <hdu at qualigo.de> wrote:
>> I'm looking for a chance to do it with the admin interface.
>
>As far as I know, there is currently no way to do this. (The
>previously linked FAQ entry corroborates this.)


But it is on the ToDo list <http://www.list.org/todo.html>. We know
that the methods in the FAQ are not a solution to the problem, but
currently that's all there is.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Jun 13 17:18:45 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 10:18:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
In-Reply-To: <1150204620.3125.8.camel@tara.firmix.at>
References: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<1150204620.3125.8.camel@tara.firmix.at>
Message-ID: <p06200709c0b486ba7b70@[192.168.2.144]>

At 3:17 PM +0200 2006-06-13, Bernd Petrovitsch wrote:

>  On Tue, 2006-06-13 at 09:06 -0400, Steve Campbell wrote:
>  [...]
>>  Does anyone have a suggestion for throttling?
>
>  Just store the 22.000 outgoing mails in the mail queue (every decent MTA
>  should be able to do that unconditionally) and wait for the next queue
>  run?

	I think that this would require a second MTA instance -- the 
first instance of sendmail (or whatever MTA) would simply take 
everything that Mailman gives it and then store that in the queue. 
This would be different from a normal sendmail (or other MTA) 
configuration, where immediate delivery would normally be attempted.

	Then, additional queue runners are called to start processing 
that queue and pushing those messages out, but they go through an 
additional instance of sendmail, where the throttling milter is used.


	You would also need to make sure that the first instance of 
sendmail (or whatever MTA) is not configured to generate Delivery 
Status Notices (DSNs) for delayed messages, because you know for a 
fact that some messages are going to be delayed for a significant 
period of time, and you don't want those kinds of warnings clouding 
the picture for Mailman.


	And I'm sure there are other factors or issues to be considered, 
although I haven't thought of any others off the top of my head.


	This is a complex problem, which is why Mailman has not attempted 
to deal with this issue in the past.  If you're running a large list, 
I still firmly believe that you should be hosting that list at a 
provider where you are not required to do any throttling.

	If you do have to do throttling, then you're hosting your list at 
the wrong place.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From hdu at qualigo.de  Tue Jun 13 17:35:44 2006
From: hdu at qualigo.de (Haluk Durmus)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 18:35:44 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] edit held messages
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606130827100921a3aa5ba3@msapiro>
References: <6fbe3da00606130816w13c5e589gf89837a1f284415e@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200606130827100921a3aa5ba3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060613183544.3d612898.hdu@qualigo.de>

On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 08:27:10 -0700
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Patrick Bogen wrote:
> 
> >On 6/13/06, Haluk Durmus <hdu at qualigo.de> wrote:
> >> I'm looking for a chance to do it with the admin interface.
> >
> >As far as I know, there is currently no way to do this. (The
> >previously linked FAQ entry corroborates this.)
> 
> 
> But it is on the ToDo list <http://www.list.org/todo.html>. We know
> that the methods in the FAQ are not a solution to the problem, but
> currently that's all there is.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 

... so I must implemet it selfe four our use.

But its nice to know that there will be soon a professional solution. 

thank you very much,
Haluk 



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jun 13 17:38:11 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 10:38:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
In-Reply-To: <002a01c68efc$fd566c00$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
References: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<6fbe3da00606130744j4edc4517l74de1b3e123e84a6@mail.gmail.com>
	<002a01c68efc$fd566c00$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606130838y8affb68m4928328c5f4a4ef8@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/13/06, Steve Campbell <campbell at cnpapers.com> wrote:
> The failure code is 450 4.7.1. I would probably set the SMTP_MAX_RCPTS =
> "some very small number" also to allow only small amounts at one time.
>
> So, assuming that the milter works properly, and it takes one hundred loops
> for the milter to process the entire retry queue over a given time interval,
> would Mailman be OK with this? As I see it, the first run through the
> milter, 99% of the original email would still not go out, then the second
> run would be 98% of the original, etc. Is this going to cause Mailman to
> give up on some of the emails that are last in line and flag them in any
> way?

I think it should be alright. Mailman's logic says that, if it's a
temporary failure, AND none of the recipients could be delivered, AND
mm_cfg.DELIVERY_RETRY_PERIOD has passed (5 days, in my Defaults.py),
then the message will be discarded. The default DELIVERY_RETRY_WAIT is
1 hour, so that gives you 120 chances. Shorten the retry to, say, 5
minutes, and you get 1440 chances. If you deliver, say, 25 mails per
five minutes (if you can configure it that way), then you get to send
36,000 mails. Overlapping mails might be a problem.

(All told, a better solution is to configure your MTA (even if it's an
MTA local to the mailman machine) to accept them all for delivery, and
then throttle it there. The MTA is better equipped for this, since
Mailman doesn't know about throttling, it's not going to blink if it
thinks it's the right idea to discard the message at some point.)

(P.S., please CC the list on all replies.)

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jun 13 17:40:10 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 10:40:10 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] edit held messages
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606130823150781a3aa5b1c@msapiro>
References: <6fbe3da00606130746y6f7f7f8bwb07f8396b2cfb691@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200606130823150781a3aa5b1c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606130840s65398f04hc8e02bb6bfda1b3@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/13/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> We are all FAQ maintainers. The FAQ is maintained by the community on
> the honor system, much like a wiki. The password is right there on the
> bottom of every page.
>
I never noticed it there. That would've been quite helpful the one or
two times I felt driven to tweak the FAQ.

>
> If you are suggesting that the term "Simple string" would better be
> described as "Exact phrase" or something similar, you may be correct,
> but getting this actually changed on python.org is a 'windmill' I'll
> leave to someone else.
>
Understood.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From campbell at cnpapers.com  Tue Jun 13 17:39:56 2006
From: campbell at cnpapers.com (Steve Campbell)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:39:56 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
References: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<1150204620.3125.8.camel@tara.firmix.at>
Message-ID: <002601c68eff$9f1cb060$0705000a@DDF5DW71>

Bernd,
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bernd Petrovitsch" <bernd at firmix.at>
To: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 9:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output


> On Tue, 2006-06-13 at 09:06 -0400, Steve Campbell wrote:
> [...]
>> Does anyone have a suggestion for throttling?
>
> Just store the 22.000 outgoing mails in the mail queue (every decent MTA
> should be able to do that unconditionally) and wait for the next queue
> run?

This originally sounded like a "too-simple-to-work" idea, but after thinking 
about it, it may be the best. If you mean QueueGroups with a separate runner 
for this particular list, then the milter would handle the throttle of the 
runner and relieve Mailman of the outgoing problems. It would really give me 
a little more control because of the sleep time of the queue runner along 
with the milter throttle. This will be a multiple-list server and only one 
or two lists would require the slowdown/pacing.

Sounds great. In fact, this is sort of what the Milter people suggested 
without the milter, although I didn't see where the throttling would occur.

Thanks

Steve


>
> Bernd
> -- 
> Firmix Software GmbH                   http://www.firmix.at/
> mobil: +43 664 4416156                 fax: +43 1 7890849-55
>          Embedded Linux Development and Services
>
>
> 




From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 13 17:42:58 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 08:42:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] edit held messages
In-Reply-To: <20060613183544.3d612898.hdu@qualigo.de>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606130842580953ec7b7213@msapiro>

Haluk Durmus wrote:
>
>... so I must implemet it selfe four our use.
>
>But its nice to know that there will be soon a professional solution. 


If you are going to do this yourself, the quickest way to get this into
the base is to contribute your changes back. While some of us may be
professional programmers, we are all just volunteers when it comes to
Mailman.
 
-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From hdu at qualigo.de  Tue Jun 13 17:49:27 2006
From: hdu at qualigo.de (Haluk Durmus)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 18:49:27 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] edit held messages
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606130842580953ec7b7213@msapiro>
References: <20060613183544.3d612898.hdu@qualigo.de>
	<PC1740200606130842580953ec7b7213@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060613184927.6450eba2.hdu@qualigo.de>

On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 08:42:58 -0700
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Haluk Durmus wrote:
> >
> >... so I must implemet it selfe four our use.
> >
> >But its nice to know that there will be soon a professional solution. 
> 
> 
> If you are going to do this yourself, the quickest way to get this into
> the base is to contribute your changes back. While some of us may be
> professional programmers, we are all just volunteers when it comes to
> Mailman.
>  
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 


you are right !
May by I should then firt ask in Mailman Developers, if there is some on who is currently working 
on this task ....

regards,
Haluk 


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 13 18:00:06 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 09:00:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] edit held messages
In-Reply-To: <20060613184927.6450eba2.hdu@qualigo.de>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606130900060531ec7b7039@msapiro>

Haluk Durmus 
>
>you are right !
>May by I should then firt ask in Mailman Developers, if there is some on who is currently working 
>on this task ....


There is an RFE at
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1198375&group_id=103&atid=350103>.
It is currently unassigned, but it would certainly be worth asking on
Mailman Developers to see if anyone is now working on it or is
interested in working on it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From bob at bergey.net  Tue Jun 13 18:51:33 2006
From: bob at bergey.net (Bob Bergey)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 12:51:33 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in Mailman 2.1.4
Message-ID: <p06230916c0b49ca83309@[10.0.1.2]>

I have more than a dozen lists running in Mailman 2.1.4 on my Xserve, 
all running fine, except that now on just one list I'm unable to 
access the admin pages. The list is still sending messages okay, 
individual subscribers can access their subscription options, 
archives are fine, etc. -- but I get an error after trying to sign in 
with my admin password. It's processing the admin password, because 
if I intentionally type the wrong one, I get the authorization failed 
message. But if I type the correct password, I get a "Bug in Mailman 
2.1.4" message -- starts out like this:

------------begin copy------------

Bug in Mailman version 2.1.4

We're sorry, we hit a bug!
If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a 
copy of this page to the webmaster for this site with a description 
of what happened. Thanks!
Traceback:

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/share/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main
     main()
   File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 200, in main
     mlist.Save()
   File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 526, in Save
     self.__save(dict)
   File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 498, in __save
     os.unlink(fname_last)
OSError: [Errno 22] Invalid argument: 
'/private/var/mailman/lists/disciples/config.pck.last'

------------end copy------------

Any suggestions on working around this? Admin pages for all other 
lists on the same server are working fine!

Bob
-- 

======================================================================
Bob Bergey -- 215-527-1048 -- Perkasie, PA     <mailto:bob at bergey.net>
Internet Services for the Printing Industry <http://www.printweb.org/>
Web Hosting & E-Mail Services:  BERGEY.NET    <http://www.bergey.net/>
======================================================================



From jwblist3 at olympus.net  Tue Jun 13 19:09:54 2006
From: jwblist3 at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 10:09:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web based interface not working
In-Reply-To: <C0B3D259.10921%jon@corporates.com>
Message-ID: <C0B43F72.D0B2%jwblist3@olympus.net>

On 6/13/06 12:24 AM, "jon lanclos" <jon at corporates.com> wrote:

> When I click on the link to go to the web interface - I get the following
> message ...
> 
> Safari can?t open the page
> ?http://mail.corporates.com/mailman/admindb/everyone? because it could not
> connect to the server ?mail.corporates.com?.

In Terminal, type the command
host mail.corporates.com

Do you get back a sensible address?  From here, I get
# host mail.corporates.com
mail.corporates.com has address 216.61.158.217

but things might be set up so that you get a different, LAN-based address.

>From here, port 80 connections to 216.61.158.217 are immediately refused,
but that might very well make sense if use of that server is restricted.

# telnet 216.61.158.217 80
Trying 216.61.158.217...
telnet: connect to address 216.61.158.217: Connection refused
telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused

If Safari gets the same sort of response from its connection attempt (also a
telnet, although that's hidden from you), you are seeing the proper display
of the error by Safari.

  --John




From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 13 19:21:55 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 10:21:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in Mailman 2.1.4
In-Reply-To: <p06230916c0b49ca83309@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606131021550937ec7b7200@msapiro>

Bob Bergey wrote:

>I have more than a dozen lists running in Mailman 2.1.4 on my Xserve, 
>all running fine, except that now on just one list I'm unable to 
>access the admin pages. The list is still sending messages okay, 
>individual subscribers can access their subscription options, 
>archives are fine, etc. -- but I get an error after trying to sign in 
>with my admin password. It's processing the admin password, because 
>if I intentionally type the wrong one, I get the authorization failed 
>message. But if I type the correct password, I get a "Bug in Mailman 
>2.1.4" message -- starts out like this:
>
>------------begin copy------------
>
>Bug in Mailman version 2.1.4
>
>We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a 
>copy of this page to the webmaster for this site with a description 
>of what happened. Thanks!
>Traceback:
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/share/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main
>     main()
>   File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 200, in main
>     mlist.Save()
>   File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 526, in Save
>     self.__save(dict)
>   File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 498, in __save
>     os.unlink(fname_last)
>OSError: [Errno 22] Invalid argument: 
>'/private/var/mailman/lists/disciples/config.pck.last'
>
>------------end copy------------


Is there a /private/var/mailman/lists/disciples/config.pck.last file?
What are its permissions? Are they the same as
/private/var/mailman/lists/disciples/config.pck? How do these compare
with another list?

Mailman is in the process of saving the list config. It is in the last
step. It has saved the config to config.pck.tmp.host.pid and is trying
to do the equivalent of

rm config.pck.last
mv config.pck config.pck.last
mv config.pck.tmp.host.pid config.pck

and it gets the exception on the first step.

Are there more errors like this in Mailman's error log?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dave at umiacs.umd.edu  Tue Jun 13 19:22:27 2006
From: dave at umiacs.umd.edu (Dave Stern)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 13:22:27 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
In-Reply-To: <002601c68eff$9f1cb060$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
References: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<1150204620.3125.8.camel@tara.firmix.at>
	<002601c68eff$9f1cb060$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0606131315380.22096@eruv.umiacs.umd.edu>

On Tue, 13 Jun 2006, Steve Campbell wrote:

> Bernd,
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bernd Petrovitsch" <bernd at firmix.at>
> To: <mailman-users at python.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 9:17 AM
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
>
>
>> On Tue, 2006-06-13 at 09:06 -0400, Steve Campbell wrote:
>> [...]
>>> Does anyone have a suggestion for throttling?
>>
>> Just store the 22.000 outgoing mails in the mail queue (every decent MTA
>> should be able to do that unconditionally) and wait for the next queue
>> run?
>
> This originally sounded like a "too-simple-to-work" idea, but after thinking
> about it, it may be the best. If you mean QueueGroups with a separate runner
> for this particular list, then the milter would handle the throttle of the
> runner and relieve Mailman of the outgoing problems. It would really give me
> a little more control because of the sleep time of the queue runner along
> with the milter throttle. This will be a multiple-list server and only one
> or two lists would require the slowdown/pacing.
>
> Sounds great. In fact, this is sort of what the Milter people suggested
> without the milter, although I didn't see where the throttling would occur.
>
> Thanks
>
> Steve
>

Actually, that's exactly what we did. We had a tiny sun ultra10 and
ended up supporting a list of some 12,000 people. Aside from the 
standard tuning you'll read about in the Sendmail Performance Tuning
book by Christenson, I set up multiple queues limiting the maxquerunsize.

'Course now we're turning to linux and are considering using postfix 
instead but the theory is the same.

  =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-  generated by /dev/dave -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  David Stern                                    University of Maryland
            Institute for Advanced Computer Studies


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Jun 13 20:14:21 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 13:14:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0606131315380.22096@eruv.umiacs.umd.edu>
References: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<1150204620.3125.8.camel@tara.firmix.at>
	<002601c68eff$9f1cb060$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<Pine.LNX.4.63.0606131315380.22096@eruv.umiacs.umd.edu>
Message-ID: <p0620070ec0b4ae5bc509@[192.168.2.144]>

At 1:22 PM -0400 2006-06-13, Dave Stern wrote:

>  'Course now we're turning to linux and are considering using postfix
>  instead but the theory is the same.

	Out-of-the-box, I believe that postfix is a better MTA to use for 
hosting mailing lists, because configuring sendmail to work well in 
that kind of environment can be tedious.  That said, the more 
filtering you do, the more I believe that sendmail can be made to 
outperform all other general-purpose MTAs on the planet.

	I currently use postfix at the two main sites that I help to 
administer (ntp.isc.org and python.org), and we've got quite a bit of 
filtering that we've set up, but I am confident that we could do at 
least as well (or better) if we were using sendmail instead.


	Of course, I'm a bit biased -- I was technical reviewer for 
Nick's book, and he was my co-author for a couple of invited talks I 
did on the subject of building large-scale e-mail systems, and he and 
I are now involved in another project.

	Sendmail, postfix, and Exim are all good MTAs.  For 99.9999% of 
what any site is likely to do, any of these programs should be more 
than adequate.  You should choose one of these programs based on your 
familiarity with the packages, the level of support you can get from 
your co-workers and the community, any requirements you may have for 
certain specific features, etc....


	But when considering switching hardware platforms, OSes, or MTAs, 
you should look at whether it makes sense to change all three of 
those factors at the same time, or if you should instead look at each 
one independently to see which one gives you the most bang for your 
buck.

	My guess is that Solaris 10 with ZFS on hardware of comparable 
performance (especially the I/O subsystem), will run rings around 
most anything else.  Postfix might be easier to maintain, and perform 
better out-of-the-box than sendmail, but if you're doing a lot of 
filtering (which most modern medium-to-large scale sites have to do 
in order to survive), then I strongly suspect that sendmail+milter is 
going to be able to be configured to meet or beat the performance you 
could get out of an equivalently configured postfix installation.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From peter.adams at umb.edu  Tue Jun 13 20:39:17 2006
From: peter.adams at umb.edu (Peter C.S. Adams)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 14:39:17 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
In-Reply-To: <p0620070ec0b4ae5bc509@[192.168.2.144]>
Message-ID: <C0B47E95.276C7%peter.adams@umb.edu>

Thus spake Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>, circa 6/13/2006 2:14 PM:
> Sendmail, postfix, and Exim are all good MTAs.  For 99.9999% of
> what any site is likely to do, any of these programs should be more
> than adequate.

Brad, any thoughts on LSMTP from L-Soft?

Thanks,
   peter




From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Jun 13 21:10:43 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 14:10:43 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
In-Reply-To: <C0B47E95.276C7%peter.adams@umb.edu>
References: <C0B47E95.276C7%peter.adams@umb.edu>
Message-ID: <p06200712c0b4bdd7661e@[192.168.2.144]>

At 2:39 PM -0400 2006-06-13, Peter C.S. Adams wrote:

>  Thus spake Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>, circa 6/13/2006 2:14 PM:
>>  Sendmail, postfix, and Exim are all good MTAs.  For 99.9999% of
>>  what any site is likely to do, any of these programs should be more
>>  than adequate.
>
>  Brad, any thoughts on LSMTP from L-Soft?

	Listserv is a very good mailing list server, probably one of the 
best on the planet.  But it is damn bloody expensive, as is LSMTP. 
But if you've got the money, I don't know of any better combination 
in this field.

	But that's only for mailing lists.  That doesn't do anything for 
general-purpose Internet e-mail activities.  Moreover, I don't know 
what kind of filtering they're doing on inbound processing, which is 
a very important factor for mailing lists these days.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From ian at moiagroup.com  Tue Jun 13 20:55:02 2006
From: ian at moiagroup.com (Ian Johnson)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:55:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman locking up with "too many files open"
Message-ID: <448F0A06.4010706@moiagroup.com>


Hello,

I've been running a mailman list (for broadcast only) lately, and 
recently had a post that jammed up the system. Mailman would respond to 
other list requests, but the admin pages for the list in question would 
not appear, and the list itself was unresponsive. This is the error 
message that I see throughout the error log:

Jun 12 20:15:28 2006 qrunner(8679): libkrb5.so.3: cannot open shared 
object file: Too many open files in system
Jun 12 20:15:31 2006 qrunner(8769): Traceback (most recent call last):
Jun 12 20:15:31 2006 qrunner(8769):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner", 
line 270, in ?
Jun 12 20:15:31 2006 qrunner(8769):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner", 
line 230, in main
Jun 12 20:15:31 2006 qrunner(8769):   File 
"/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 70, in run
Jun 12 20:15:31 2006 qrunner(8769):   File 
"/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 94, in _oneloop
Jun 12 20:15:31 2006 qrunner(8769):   File 
"/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 158, in files
Jun 12 20:15:31 2006 qrunner(8769): OSError :  [Errno 23] Too many open 
files in system: '/var/mailman/qfiles/news'
<mailto:mailman-users at python.org>
Three changes may have contributed to this problem:

1. list went from 4000 to 6800 members
2. the email sent out had a somewhat large attachement (~300k)
3. I recently turned on footer customization to allow user-specific 
unsubscribe instructions at the bottom.

It seems like I should either:
    1. increase max-open-file limit on system
   or
    2. turn off footer customization (if this would, in fact, solve the 
problem)

Any help or advice much appreciated.

Ian

-- 

Ian Johnson, MoiaGroup
ian at moiagroup.com
http://www.moiagroup.com
Phone: 520-628-1654
Fax: 520-628-1717
AOLIM, Yahoo: ianjohn27




From mail at ilovewhimsy.com  Tue Jun 13 21:27:43 2006
From: mail at ilovewhimsy.com (mail at ilovewhimsy.com)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 14:27:43 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachments created by Mailman?
Message-ID: <20060613142743.oxnw9uxi5rco0o8c@ilovewhimsy.com>

I would be ever so grateful if someone can help me with this. I've  
spent many hours -- days, actually -- setting up a one-way newsletter.  
Everything now works fine, except -- when I send an HTML email,  
Mailman seems to duplicate my images (which I have NOT included as  
attachments--they're hosted on the Web) and send them along as  
attachments. I'm afraid that my subscribers won't even want to open my  
newsletter when they see what appear to be attachments. The files look  
like this:

    image6.gif (< 0.01 MB), image7.gif (< 0.01 MB), image8.gif (< 0.01  
MB), image9.gif (0.01 MB), image10.gif (< 0.01 MB), image11.jpg (0.02  
MB), image12.jpg (0.01 MB)

The file names you see here were created by the software. They DO NOT  
show up when I open a copy in my Outlook Express client--but I do get  
the paper clip attachment icon beside the email in the list view. I  
got these file names by sending a copy to my Hotmail account, where  
they do appear.

Since the newsletter is to advertise my latest artwork, I do need to  
send at least a couple of images!

I tried configuring the content filtering, but it's a bit over my  
head, and I only managed to strip the html.

Connie


From campbell at cnpapers.com  Tue Jun 13 22:09:24 2006
From: campbell at cnpapers.com (Steve Campbell)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 16:09:24 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
References: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71><1150204620.3125.8.camel@tara.firmix.at><002601c68eff$9f1cb060$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<Pine.LNX.4.63.0606131315380.22096@eruv.umiacs.umd.edu>
Message-ID: <001b01c68f25$43f8f970$0705000a@DDF5DW71>

David,

Thanks for the reply.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Stern" <dave at umiacs.umd.edu>
To: "Steve Campbell" <campbell at cnpapers.com>
Cc: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 1:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output


> On Tue, 13 Jun 2006, Steve Campbell wrote:
>
>> Bernd,
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Bernd Petrovitsch" <bernd at firmix.at>
>> To: <mailman-users at python.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 9:17 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
>>
>>
>>> On Tue, 2006-06-13 at 09:06 -0400, Steve Campbell wrote:
>>> [...]
>>>> Does anyone have a suggestion for throttling?
>>>
>>> Just store the 22.000 outgoing mails in the mail queue (every decent MTA
>>> should be able to do that unconditionally) and wait for the next queue
>>> run?
>>
>> This originally sounded like a "too-simple-to-work" idea, but after 
>> thinking
>> about it, it may be the best. If you mean QueueGroups with a separate 
>> runner
>> for this particular list, then the milter would handle the throttle of 
>> the
>> runner and relieve Mailman of the outgoing problems. It would really give 
>> me
>> a little more control because of the sleep time of the queue runner along
>> with the milter throttle. This will be a multiple-list server and only 
>> one
>> or two lists would require the slowdown/pacing.
>>
>> Sounds great. In fact, this is sort of what the Milter people suggested
>> without the milter, although I didn't see where the throttling would 
>> occur.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Steve
>>
>
> Actually, that's exactly what we did. We had a tiny sun ultra10 and
> ended up supporting a list of some 12,000 people. Aside from the standard 
> tuning you'll read about in the Sendmail Performance Tuning
> book by Christenson, I set up multiple queues limiting the maxquerunsize.

I am seeing how the MAX_QUEUE_RUN_SIZE thing might work and replace the 
milter. There sure is a lot of sendmail configuration things to discover.

If you don't mind, can you explain some things for me, based on how you did 
this, please? I've been trying to read the Sendmail docs (I really need the 
Cookbook I think), and based on what I see:

1 - I could define the queue groups based on sender address, queueonly 
style, but then all of the queues are queueonly, as this is a 'global' 
option? The Delivery Mode is for all queues, defined once? Not a problem, 
though, as the differing queuerunners would handle the smaller lists just 
fine.
2 - The queuerunners are defined with a specific time interval somewhere in 
the sendmail config file, and Sendmail will run these without startup queue 
scripts? This one is really hazy for me as there are quite a few differing 
topics out there that don't really specify a Sendmail version. It appears 
the queues on 8.12 are quite different from 8.13, based on the facilities 
that Sendmail provides. I have upgraded one server to 8.13 just to see the 
differences.
3 - And finally, the MAX_QUEUE_RUN_SIZE  would only send out whatever it is 
set to until the next queue runner runs? The setting defines how many 
envelopes are processed until the next queue run and this becomes the 
throttle?

Thanks for any help

Steve
>
> 'Course now we're turning to linux and are considering using postfix 
> instead but the theory is the same.
>
>  =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-  generated by /dev/dave -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>  David Stern                                    University of Maryland
>            Institute for Advanced Computer Studies
>
> 




From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 13 22:32:29 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 13:32:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman locking up with "too many files open"
In-Reply-To: <448F0A06.4010706@moiagroup.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060613133229085979c426f8@msapiro>

Ian Johnson wrote:
>
>I've been running a mailman list (for broadcast only) lately, and 
>recently had a post that jammed up the system. Mailman would respond to 
>other list requests, but the admin pages for the list in question would 
>not appear, and the list itself was unresponsive. This is the error 
>message that I see throughout the error log:
>
>Jun 12 20:15:28 2006 qrunner(8679): libkrb5.so.3: cannot open shared 
>object file: Too many open files in system
>Jun 12 20:15:31 2006 qrunner(8769): Traceback (most recent call last):
>Jun 12 20:15:31 2006 qrunner(8769):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner", 
>line 270, in ?
>Jun 12 20:15:31 2006 qrunner(8769):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner", 
>line 230, in main
>Jun 12 20:15:31 2006 qrunner(8769):   File 
>"/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 70, in run
>Jun 12 20:15:31 2006 qrunner(8769):   File 
>"/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 94, in _oneloop
>Jun 12 20:15:31 2006 qrunner(8769):   File 
>"/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 158, in files
>Jun 12 20:15:31 2006 qrunner(8769): OSError :  [Errno 23] Too many open 
>files in system: '/var/mailman/qfiles/news'


It seems like there are missing lines in the above trace. Did you grep
on date?

Anyway, Switchboard is trying to obtain the contents of the 'news'
queue when the error occurs (this time - is it always this?).
Presumably, this is NewsRunner. It seems highly unlikely that this
specific occurrence has anything to do with a specific list.


>Three changes may have contributed to this problem:
>
>1. list went from 4000 to 6800 members
>2. the email sent out had a somewhat large attachement (~300k)
>3. I recently turned on footer customization to allow user-specific 
>unsubscribe instructions at the bottom.


None of these is likely to be the immediate cause.


>It seems like I should either:
>    1. increase max-open-file limit on system


What is the limit now?


>   or
>    2. turn off footer customization (if this would, in fact, solve the 
>problem)


I doubt this would help.

Have you tried 'mailmanctl restart'? How many runners are running? Do
you need to "clean up" from prior multiple starts? See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.068.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 13 22:50:10 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 13:50:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachments created by Mailman?
In-Reply-To: <20060613142743.oxnw9uxi5rco0o8c@ilovewhimsy.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060613135010078179c42697@msapiro>

mail at ilovewhimsy.com wrote:
>  
>Everything now works fine, except -- when I send an HTML email,  
>Mailman seems to duplicate my images (which I have NOT included as  
>attachments--they're hosted on the Web) and send them along as  
>attachments. I'm afraid that my subscribers won't even want to open my  
>newsletter when they see what appear to be attachments. The files look  
>like this:
>
>    image6.gif (< 0.01 MB), image7.gif (< 0.01 MB), image8.gif (< 0.01  
>MB), image9.gif (0.01 MB), image10.gif (< 0.01 MB), image11.jpg (0.02  
>MB), image12.jpg (0.01 MB)
>
>The file names you see here were created by the software. They DO NOT  
>show up when I open a copy in my Outlook Express client--but I do get  
>the paper clip attachment icon beside the email in the list view. I  
>got these file names by sending a copy to my Hotmail account, where  
>they do appear.


You are emailing a "web page" including all it's content. I.e. the
links to the graphics are not being preserved as links to your web
site, but rather the content of those links is being included in the
mail. Whether or not these show as 'attachments' in addition to being
shown as images in the rendered HTML is a function of the email client
(MUA) used to read the mail. It has nothing to do with Mailman as you
can see from the hotmail copy (presumably sent directly, not via the
list).

You have to create your email with links to the content on your web
site, not with imbedded images. This is a function of how you create
the mail.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From bernd at firmix.at  Tue Jun 13 23:38:23 2006
From: bernd at firmix.at (Bernd Petrovitsch)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 23:38:23 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
In-Reply-To: <p06200709c0b486ba7b70@[192.168.2.144]>
References: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<1150204620.3125.8.camel@tara.firmix.at>
	<p06200709c0b486ba7b70@[192.168.2.144]>
Message-ID: <1150234703.3043.13.camel@gimli.at.home>

On Tue, 2006-06-13 at 10:18 -0500, Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 3:17 PM +0200 2006-06-13, Bernd Petrovitsch wrote:
> 
> >  On Tue, 2006-06-13 at 09:06 -0400, Steve Campbell wrote:
> >  [...]
> >>  Does anyone have a suggestion for throttling?
> >
> >  Just store the 22.000 outgoing mails in the mail queue (every decent MTA
> >  should be able to do that unconditionally) and wait for the next queue
> >  run?
> 
> 	I think that this would require a second MTA instance -- the 

You want that probably anyway since you probably don't want your MTA
accept 22.000 emails on a public interface in one rush (and I actually
don't remember out of my head how mailman really inject mails. 1 mail
with a long list of rcpt-to:?).

> first instance of sendmail (or whatever MTA) would simply take 
> everything that Mailman gives it and then store that in the queue. 
> This would be different from a normal sendmail (or other MTA) 
> configuration, where immediate delivery would normally be attempted.

Yes. But "normally" you don't throw 22.000 emails at once on your MTA.
And if you do this "normally", you shouldn't need any throttling or
other special behaviour at all - just enough hardware.

> 	Then, additional queue runners are called to start processing 
> that queue and pushing those messages out, but they go through an 
> additional instance of sendmail, where the throttling milter is used.

Just limit/throttle the MTA itself (sendmail has several options for
this like "number of proceses", etc. and I assume that other MTAs like
postfix, exim, qmail allow this too in similar ways).

> 	You would also need to make sure that the first instance of 
> sendmail (or whatever MTA) is not configured to generate Delivery 
> Status Notices (DSNs) for delayed messages, because you know for a 
> fact that some messages are going to be delayed for a significant 
> period of time, and you don't want those kinds of warnings clouding 
> the picture for Mailman.

Of course. But the standard/usual delay of 4 hours or so should be large
enough though (and I don't see a problem in raising that limit).

> 	And I'm sure there are other factors or issues to be considered, 
> although I haven't thought of any others off the top of my head.

	Bernd
-- 
Firmix Software GmbH                   http://www.firmix.at/
mobil: +43 664 4416156                 fax: +43 1 7890849-55
          Embedded Linux Development and Services



From bernd at firmix.at  Tue Jun 13 23:42:50 2006
From: bernd at firmix.at (Bernd Petrovitsch)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 23:42:50 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
In-Reply-To: <002601c68eff$9f1cb060$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
References: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<1150204620.3125.8.camel@tara.firmix.at>
	<002601c68eff$9f1cb060$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
Message-ID: <1150234970.3043.18.camel@gimli.at.home>

On Tue, 2006-06-13 at 11:39 -0400, Steve Campbell wrote:
[...]
> Sounds great. In fact, this is sort of what the Milter people suggested 
> without the milter, although I didn't see where the throttling would occur.

First you throw the 22.000 mail in the mail queue. And the normal queue
run will deliver these emails + all others in the queue. So you probably
want to limit the queue runner anyways (say not more than 100 - or
whatever works good enough - concurrent processes delivering email).

So the throttling is done within the MTA - your host is delivering
"only" 100 emails in parallel. If every mail takes around 10s, you need
around 36 minutes to deliver (or at least try to) all emails. YMMV ...

	Bernd
-- 
Firmix Software GmbH                   http://www.firmix.at/
mobil: +43 664 4416156                 fax: +43 1 7890849-55
          Embedded Linux Development and Services



From ldb at freestandards.org  Wed Jun 14 00:00:22 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 18:00:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Aliases not working
Message-ID: <448F3576.9050805@freestandards.org>

I have been getting rid of lists lately and I need
to forward old lists to the new lists. I am using
mailman 2.1.6 and the forwards are not working.
I also recently upgraded the OS from Debian to SuSE 10.0.

Any ideas anyone??

Thanks,

LDB



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun 14 00:12:13 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:12:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Aliases not working
In-Reply-To: <448F3576.9050805@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402006061315121305318ab4b420@msapiro>

Lawrence Bowie wrote:

>I have been getting rid of lists lately and I need
>to forward old lists to the new lists. I am using
>mailman 2.1.6 and the forwards are not working.
>I also recently upgraded the OS from Debian to SuSE 10.0.


How are you forwarding? What's not working?

Note that if the new list has require_explicit_destination Yes, you
will probably need to put the old list address in acceptable_aliases
in order for a post to the old list to not be held for implicit
destination by the new list. (These settings are on Privacy
options...->Recipient filters.)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From nstazew1 at swarthmore.edu  Tue Jun 13 23:59:00 2006
From: nstazew1 at swarthmore.edu (Nathan K. Stazewski)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 17:59:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new users get welcome e-mails but posts aren't
	going out
Message-ID: <448F3524.7090900@swarthmore.edu>

I apologize if this is in the archives.  I searched for a while and 
couldn't find this issue.  I just did a fresh install of Mailman 2.1.8 
on OS X 10.4 (Tiger).  I have it to the point where I can create lists 
through the web interface and sign people up for the lists.   When I 
subscribe an address to a list (or create a new list) an e-mail is sent 
and received by the appropriate parties.  If I post to the listserv, 
though, no e-mail ever comes through.  I thought I'd improperly setup 
postfix until I noticed the other e-mails were being properly sent.  The 
mail server is apparently at least partially working, but I can't get a 
post through at all.  I've looked through the smtp and smtp-failure 
logs, and don't notice any obvious problems.  Anyone have any educated 
guesses as to some places that I should check (I'm not sure if this is a 
postfix problem or a mailman problem currently).  I can definitely 
provide my current configuration settings if anyone has any ideas, but 
I'm not even sure what would be helpful right now.

-- 
Nate



From hdu at qualigo.de  Wed Jun 14 00:25:34 2006
From: hdu at qualigo.de (Haluk Durmus)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 01:25:34 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sending attachment as link
Message-ID: <20060614012534.b26db53b.hdu@qualigo.de>

Hello,

can mailman change attachmets to links also for outgoing mails similar to the mail archive.
 
thx,
Haluk


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun 14 00:37:25 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:37:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sending attachment as link
In-Reply-To: <20060614012534.b26db53b.hdu@qualigo.de>
Message-ID: <PC17402006061315372505008ab4b40d@msapiro>

Haluk Durmus wrote:
>
>can mailman change attachmets to links also for outgoing mails similar to the mail archive.


Yes. In the list's admin interface, set Non-digest
options->scrub_nondigest to Yes.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From hdu at qualigo.de  Wed Jun 14 00:39:50 2006
From: hdu at qualigo.de (Haluk Durmus)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 01:39:50 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sending attachment as link
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006061315372505008ab4b40d@msapiro>
References: <20060614012534.b26db53b.hdu@qualigo.de>
	<PC17402006061315372505008ab4b40d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060614013950.c7a8499e.hdu@qualigo.de>

On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:37:25 -0700
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Haluk Durmus wrote:
> >
> >can mailman change attachmets to links also for outgoing mails similar to the mail archive.
> 
> 
> Yes. In the list's admin interface, set Non-digest
> options->scrub_nondigest to Yes.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 


Why I didn't saw this !

thanks you very much :)

Haluk



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun 14 00:41:50 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:41:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new users get welcome e-mails but posts
	aren'tgoing out
In-Reply-To: <448F3524.7090900@swarthmore.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606131541500109fb016ebf@msapiro>

Nathan K. Stazewski wrote:

>I just did a fresh install of Mailman 2.1.8 
>on OS X 10.4 (Tiger).  I have it to the point where I can create lists 
>through the web interface and sign people up for the lists.   When I 
>subscribe an address to a list (or create a new list) an e-mail is sent 
>and received by the appropriate parties.  If I post to the listserv, 
>though, no e-mail ever comes through.  I thought I'd improperly setup 
>postfix until I noticed the other e-mails were being properly sent.  The 
>mail server is apparently at least partially working, but I can't get a 
>post through at all.  I've looked through the smtp and smtp-failure 
>logs, and don't notice any obvious problems.  Anyone have any educated 
>guesses as to some places that I should check (I'm not sure if this is a 
>postfix problem or a mailman problem currently).  I can definitely 
>provide my current configuration settings if anyone has any ideas, but 
>I'm not even sure what would be helpful right now.


See both
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>
and
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.021.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Jun 14 00:36:01 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 17:36:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
In-Reply-To: <1150234703.3043.13.camel@gimli.at.home>
References: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<1150204620.3125.8.camel@tara.firmix.at>
	<p06200709c0b486ba7b70@[192.168.2.144]>
	<1150234703.3043.13.camel@gimli.at.home>
Message-ID: <p06200714c0b4ed8a942d@[192.168.2.144]>

At 11:38 PM +0200 2006-06-13, Bernd Petrovitsch wrote:

>>  	I think that this would require a second MTA instance -- the
>
>  You want that probably anyway since you probably don't want your MTA
>  accept 22.000 emails on a public interface in one rush (and I actually
>  don't remember out of my head how mailman really inject mails. 1 mail
>  with a long list of rcpt-to:?).

	Mailman can do that, depending on how you configure the 
MAX_SMTP_RCPTS parameter.

>>  first instance of sendmail (or whatever MTA) would simply take
>>  everything that Mailman gives it and then store that in the queue.
>>  This would be different from a normal sendmail (or other MTA)
>>  configuration, where immediate delivery would normally be attempted.
>
>  Yes. But "normally" you don't throw 22.000 emails at once on your MTA.

	True.

>  And if you do this "normally", you shouldn't need any throttling or
>  other special behaviour at all - just enough hardware.

	Also true.

>>  	Then, additional queue runners are called to start processing
>>  that queue and pushing those messages out, but they go through an
>>  additional instance of sendmail, where the throttling milter is used.
>
>  Just limit/throttle the MTA itself (sendmail has several options for
>  this like "number of proceses", etc. and I assume that other MTAs like
>  postfix, exim, qmail allow this too in similar ways).

	Yeah, but so far as I know, none of those mechanisms control the 
number of messages that are sent per period of time.  They control 
the number of a given set of processes you can have at any given 
period of time, but that has only the smallest impact on the number 
of messages sent per hour.

>>  	You would also need to make sure that the first instance of
>>  sendmail (or whatever MTA) is not configured to generate Delivery
>>  Status Notices (DSNs) for delayed messages, because you know for a
>>  fact that some messages are going to be delayed for a significant
>>  period of time, and you don't want those kinds of warnings clouding
>>  the picture for Mailman.
>
>  Of course. But the standard/usual delay of 4 hours or so should be large
>  enough though (and I don't see a problem in raising that limit).

	I'm not convinced.  If you've got a list of 22,000 recipients and 
a limit of 1000 recipients per hour, it's probably going to take a 
lot longer than four hours to get out all those messages.

	I do remain convinced that if you're trying to do throttling 
because your provider requires it, that you are most definitely using 
the wrong provider.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Jun 14 00:37:39 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 17:37:39 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
In-Reply-To: <1150234970.3043.18.camel@gimli.at.home>
References: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<1150204620.3125.8.camel@tara.firmix.at>
	<002601c68eff$9f1cb060$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<1150234970.3043.18.camel@gimli.at.home>
Message-ID: <p06200715c0b4ee60c667@[192.168.2.144]>

At 11:42 PM +0200 2006-06-13, Bernd Petrovitsch wrote:

>  First you throw the 22.000 mail in the mail queue. And the normal queue
>  run will deliver these emails + all others in the queue. So you probably
>  want to limit the queue runner anyways (say not more than 100 - or
>  whatever works good enough - concurrent processes delivering email).
>
>  So the throttling is done within the MTA - your host is delivering
>  "only" 100 emails in parallel. If every mail takes around 10s, you need
>  around 36 minutes to deliver (or at least try to) all emails. YMMV ...

	Read Nick's book.  Trust me, your mileage will most definitely vary.

	Controlling the number of processes doesn't help.  To make this 
effective, you really do need to have direct control over the number 
of messages sent per hour.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From ldb at freestandards.org  Wed Jun 14 01:51:36 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 19:51:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Aliases not working
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006061315121305318ab4b420@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006061315121305318ab4b420@msapiro>
Message-ID: <448F4F88.3070706@freestandards.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Lawrence Bowie wrote:
> 
> 
>>I have been getting rid of lists lately and I need
>>to forward old lists to the new lists. I am using
>>mailman 2.1.6 and the forwards are not working.
>>I also recently upgraded the OS from Debian to SuSE 10.0.
> 
> 
> 
> How are you forwarding? What's not working?
> 
> Note that if the new list has require_explicit_destination Yes, you
> will probably need to put the old list address in acceptable_aliases
> in order for a post to the old list to not be held for implicit
> destination by the new list. (These settings are on Privacy
> options...->Recipient filters.)
> 

Thank you Mark. That worked. Do I also have to put the aliases,

old-list-admin
old-list-bounces
old-list-confirm
old-list-join
old-list-leave
old-list-owner
old-list-request
old-list-subscribe
old-list-unsubscribe

that point to,

new-list-admin
new-list-bounces
new-list-confirm
new-list-join
new-list-leave
new-list-owner
new-list-request
new-list-subscribe
new-list-unsubscribe

,respectively? Or does just old-list -> new-list suffice?

Thanks,

LDB



From kliu at real.com  Wed Jun 14 02:02:25 2006
From: kliu at real.com (Kinson Liu)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 17:02:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help: spam filtering and email bouncing
Message-ID: <448F5211.5090203@real.com>

  Hi there,

The product of my company uses mailman and we have been receiving spams 
from time to time. The spams are not directly from spammers, but 
mailman-bounces and other valid list with -bounces at the end of the 
list name. We've been looking through bounce processing on the admin 
part, but it doesn't seem to be the solution of this question since it 
is only for disabling email accounts. Spam filter under privacy option 
seems the right place, but the two textareas do not make too much sense 
to me. Please help. One of the sample is pasted below.

Regards,

Kinson


*From:* mailman-bounces at lists.helixcommunity.org 
[mailto:mailman-bounces at lists.helixcommunity.org] *On Behalf Of *dacey 
aseria
*Sent:* Monday, June 12, 2006 7:38 AM
*To:* some-valid-email-list at helixcommunity.org
*Subject:* I'm not a follower... I'm a leader with the same idea

 

*Hearty reception,*


**untavirazolas[dot]com**


----

she sought in his face signs of the impression she was making on him. 
She tried to please him, not by her words only, but in her whole person. 
For his sake it was that she now lavished more care on her dress than 
before. She caught herself in reveries on what might have been, if she 
had not been married and he had been free. She blushed with emotion when 
he came into the room, she could not repress a smile of rapture when he 
said anything amiable to her. For several days now Countess Lidia 
Ivanovna had been in a state of intense excitement. She had learned that 
Anna and Vronsky were in Petersburg. Alexey Alexandrovitch must be saved 
from seeing her, he must be saved even from the torturing knowledge that 
that awful woman was in the same town with him, and that he might meet 
her any minute. Lidia Ivanovna made inquiries through her friends as to 
what those _infamous people_, as she called Anna and Vronsky, intended 
doing, and she endeavored so to guide every movement of her friend 
during those days that he could not come across them. The young 
adjutant, an acquaintance of Vronsky, through whom she obtained her 
information, and who hoped through Countess Lidia Ivanovna to obtain a 
concession, told her that they had finished their business and were 
going away next day. Lidia Ivanovna had already begun to calm down, when 
the next morning a note was brought her, the handwriting of which she 
recognized with horror. It was the handwriting of Anna Karenina. The 
envelope was of

 


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Kinson Liu* | Software Development Engineer | RealNetworks, Inc. | 
kliu at real.com | 206.892.6177


From bernd at firmix.at  Wed Jun 14 02:02:26 2006
From: bernd at firmix.at (Bernd Petrovitsch)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 02:02:26 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
In-Reply-To: <p06200714c0b4ed8a942d@[192.168.2.144]>
References: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<1150204620.3125.8.camel@tara.firmix.at>
	<p06200709c0b486ba7b70@[192.168.2.144]>
	<1150234703.3043.13.camel@gimli.at.home>
	<p06200714c0b4ed8a942d@[192.168.2.144]>
Message-ID: <1150243346.3043.58.camel@gimli.at.home>

On Tue, 2006-06-13 at 17:36 -0500, Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 11:38 PM +0200 2006-06-13, Bernd Petrovitsch wrote:
[...]
> >>  	You would also need to make sure that the first instance of
> >>  sendmail (or whatever MTA) is not configured to generate Delivery
> >>  Status Notices (DSNs) for delayed messages, because you know for a
> >>  fact that some messages are going to be delayed for a significant
> >>  period of time, and you don't want those kinds of warnings clouding
> >>  the picture for Mailman.
> >
> >  Of course. But the standard/usual delay of 4 hours or so should be large
> >  enough though (and I don't see a problem in raising that limit).
> 
> 	I'm not convinced.  If you've got a list of 22,000 recipients and 
> a limit of 1000 recipients per hour, it's probably going to take a 
> lot longer than four hours to get out all those messages.

Sure. I calculated more mails per hour ....

> 	I do remain convinced that if you're trying to do throttling 
> because your provider requires it, that you are most definitely using 
> the wrong provider.

Of course.

	Bernd
-- 
Firmix Software GmbH                   http://www.firmix.at/
mobil: +43 664 4416156                 fax: +43 1 7890849-55
          Embedded Linux Development and Services



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun 14 02:11:48 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 17:11:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Aliases not working
In-Reply-To: <448F4F88.3070706@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402006061317114804795114bb4f@msapiro>

Lawrence Bowie wrote:
>
>Thank you Mark. That worked. Do I also have to put the aliases,
>
>old-list-admin
>old-list-bounces
>old-list-confirm
>old-list-join
>old-list-leave
>old-list-owner
>old-list-request
>old-list-subscribe
>old-list-unsubscribe
>
>that point to,
>
>new-list-admin
>new-list-bounces
>new-list-confirm
>new-list-join
>new-list-leave
>new-list-owner
>new-list-request
>new-list-subscribe
>new-list-unsubscribe
>
>,respectively? Or does just old-list -> new-list suffice?


You definitely do not need

old-list-admin
old-list-bounces
old-list-confirm

admin is an old, deprecated address now a synonym for bounces, and
bounces and confirmations will all be to messages from new-list so you
dont need bounces or confirm.

Whether you want owner/request/join/subscribe depends on whether or not
you still want to support these functions for the old list, or if
people should be using the new list name for these.

I would put in aliases for leave/unsubscribe just to not cause
additional frustration for someone who wants to unsubscribe and still
thinks it's the old list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun 14 02:26:58 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 17:26:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help: spam filtering and email bouncing
In-Reply-To: <448F5211.5090203@real.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606131726580229e8f633df@msapiro>

Kinson Liu wrote:
>
>The product of my company uses mailman and we have been receiving spams 
>from time to time. The spams are not directly from spammers, but 
>mailman-bounces and other valid list with -bounces at the end of the 
>list name. We've been looking through bounce processing on the admin 
>part, but it doesn't seem to be the solution of this question since it 
>is only for disabling email accounts. Spam filter under privacy option 
>seems the right place, but the two textareas do not make too much sense 
>to me. Please help. One of the sample is pasted below.


I'm sorry. I do not understand what your problem is.


>*From:* mailman-bounces at lists.helixcommunity.org 
>[mailto:mailman-bounces at lists.helixcommunity.org] *On Behalf Of *dacey 
>aseria
>*Sent:* Monday, June 12, 2006 7:38 AM
>*To:* some-valid-email-list at helixcommunity.org
>*Subject:* I'm not a follower... I'm a leader with the same idea


This looks like a Microsoft Outlook rendering of a message from the
'mailman' list posted to the list by "dacey aseria". This is the way
Outlook would show a message with

From: dacey aseria <user at example.com>

and

Sender: mailman-bounces at lists.helixcommunity.org

This would be the Sender in a message from the
mailman at lists.helixcommunity.org list. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>
for more info. The Sender is set to the list-bounces address to help
get actual bounces returned to the proper place.

Is dacey aseria a list member? It looks like someone has spammed your
list by spoofing the address of a list member. There is no good way to
deal with this in Mailman although Privacy option->Spam filters may
help. The real solution is to do spam filtering in the incoming MTA
before the mail ever gets to Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kliu at real.com  Wed Jun 14 02:31:20 2006
From: kliu at real.com (Kinson Liu)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 17:31:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help: spam filtering and email bouncing
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200606131726580229e8f633df@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200606131726580229e8f633df@msapiro>
Message-ID: <448F58D8.50008@real.com>

My question is simply why we are getting spams from 
mailman-bounces at doman.name ?

Kinson

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Kinson Liu wrote:
>   
>> The product of my company uses mailman and we have been receiving spams 
>>     
> >from time to time. The spams are not directly from spammers, but 
>   
>> mailman-bounces and other valid list with -bounces at the end of the 
>> list name. We've been looking through bounce processing on the admin 
>> part, but it doesn't seem to be the solution of this question since it 
>> is only for disabling email accounts. Spam filter under privacy option 
>> seems the right place, but the two textareas do not make too much sense 
>> to me. Please help. One of the sample is pasted below.
>>     
>
>
> I'm sorry. I do not understand what your problem is.
>
>
>   
>> *From:* mailman-bounces at lists.helixcommunity.org 
>> [mailto:mailman-bounces at lists.helixcommunity.org] *On Behalf Of *dacey 
>> aseria
>> *Sent:* Monday, June 12, 2006 7:38 AM
>> *To:* some-valid-email-list at helixcommunity.org
>> *Subject:* I'm not a follower... I'm a leader with the same idea
>>     
>
>
> This looks like a Microsoft Outlook rendering of a message from the
> 'mailman' list posted to the list by "dacey aseria". This is the way
> Outlook would show a message with
>
> From: dacey aseria <user at example.com>
>
> and
>
> Sender: mailman-bounces at lists.helixcommunity.org
>
> This would be the Sender in a message from the
> mailman at lists.helixcommunity.org list. See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>
> for more info. The Sender is set to the list-bounces address to help
> get actual bounces returned to the proper place.
>
> Is dacey aseria a list member? It looks like someone has spammed your
> list by spoofing the address of a list member. There is no good way to
> deal with this in Mailman although Privacy option->Spam filters may
> help. The real solution is to do spam filtering in the incoming MTA
> before the mail ever gets to Mailman.
>
>   

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Kinson Liu* | Software Development Engineer | RealNetworks, Inc. | 
kliu at real.com | 206.892.6177


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun 14 02:47:25 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 17:47:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help: spam filtering and email bouncing
In-Reply-To: <448F58D8.50008@real.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200606131747250229e451755e@msapiro>

Kinson Liu wrote:
>
>My question is simply why we are getting spams from 
>mailman-bounces at doman.name ?

And my question then is are these spams being delivered from your
mailman list to the subscribers of that list or are they just spam
that happens to spoof mailman-bounces at doman.name as the originator.

If they are coming from your mailman list, the Sender: will be
mailman-bounces at doman.name just as any post from any of your lists has
a Sender: of listname-bounces at doman.name so that bounces can be
returned there and processed.

If they are not coming from your list, then Mailman is not involved,
and someone is just spoofing mailman-bounces at doman.name as the
originator.

If your question is why is the mail being shown as

From: mailman-bounces at lists.helixcommunity.org On Behalf Of dacey aseria

instead of just as

From: dacey aseria

see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From campbell at cnpapers.com  Wed Jun 14 14:58:00 2006
From: campbell at cnpapers.com (Steve Campbell)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 08:58:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
References: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71><1150204620.3125.8.camel@tara.firmix.at><p06200709c0b486ba7b70@[192.168.2.144]><1150234703.3043.13.camel@gimli.at.home>
	<p06200714c0b4ed8a942d@[192.168.2.144]>
Message-ID: <007501c68fb2$2aa07fb0$0705000a@DDF5DW71>

Brad, and all,

Firstly, thanks, for all the responses on an OT type question. I have 
learned quite a bit.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brad Knowles" <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
To: "Bernd Petrovitsch" <bernd at firmix.at>
Cc: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output


> At 11:38 PM +0200 2006-06-13, Bernd Petrovitsch wrote:
>
>>>  I think that this would require a second MTA instance -- the

Does this mean using a second sendmail.cf or more like a second queue 
runner?
>>
>>  You want that probably anyway since you probably don't want your MTA
>>  accept 22.000 emails on a public interface in one rush (and I actually
>>  don't remember out of my head how mailman really inject mails. 1 mail
>>  with a long list of rcpt-to:?).
>
> Mailman can do that, depending on how you configure the MAX_SMTP_RCPTS 
> parameter.

>
>>>  first instance of sendmail (or whatever MTA) would simply take
>>>  everything that Mailman gives it and then store that in the queue.
>>>  This would be different from a normal sendmail (or other MTA)
>>>  configuration, where immediate delivery would normally be attempted.
>>
>>  Yes. But "normally" you don't throw 22.000 emails at once on your MTA.

But if my list has 22,000 members, isn't that what I am doing? Or is it 
dependent on the MAX_SMTP_RCPTS parameter, as mentioned above? I'm not clear 
on your train of thought.
>
> True.
>
>>  And if you do this "normally", you shouldn't need any throttling or
>>  other special behaviour at all - just enough hardware.

Right now, hardware is fine. This all came about because of mail list 
software (not Mailman) that does a few things it shouldn't be doing. 
Firstly, it's running on a dedicated web server. This was sort of out of my 
control. When the list starts outputting, the web sites suffer, but do not 
fail to respond. Secondly, the mail list software does not seem to handle 
bounce conditions. When the list sends to non-existent members, bounces are 
returned through one of our primary MX gateways, which tend to clog it up. 
Thirdly, a lot of the above bounces are from AOL, Verizon, etc, which have 
deemed the list sort of abusive, and do not accept mail from the list, even 
though this is purely a subscription type mailing, so I wanted to switch to 
Mailman for the bounce handling, and throttle so as not to infuriate the 
AOLs and Verizons. >
> Also true.
>
>>>  Then, additional queue runners are called to start processing
>>>  that queue and pushing those messages out, but they go through an
>>>  additional instance of sendmail, where the throttling milter is used.
>>
>>  Just limit/throttle the MTA itself (sendmail has several options for
>>  this like "number of proceses", etc. and I assume that other MTAs like
>>  postfix, exim, qmail allow this too in similar ways).
>
> Yeah, but so far as I know, none of those mechanisms control the number of 
> messages that are sent per period of time.  They control the number of a 
> given set of processes you can have at any given period of time, but that 
> has only the smallest impact on the number of messages sent per hour.

Does this include the MAX_QUEUE_RUN_SIZE, which I interpret as number of 
envelops to send per queue runner instance?
>
>>>  You would also need to make sure that the first instance of
>>>  sendmail (or whatever MTA) is not configured to generate Delivery
>>>  Status Notices (DSNs) for delayed messages, because you know for a
>>>  fact that some messages are going to be delayed for a significant
>>>  period of time, and you don't want those kinds of warnings clouding
>>>  the picture for Mailman.

Another sendmail question - how do you snuff the DSN for a sendmail 
instance? Wouldn't the queueonly delivery method do that, or is there a 
problem after that?
>>
>>  Of course. But the standard/usual delay of 4 hours or so should be large
>>  enough though (and I don't see a problem in raising that limit).
>
> I'm not convinced.  If you've got a list of 22,000 recipients and a limit 
> of 1000 recipients per hour, it's probably going to take a lot longer than 
> four hours to get out all those messages.
>
> I do remain convinced that if you're trying to do throttling because your 
> provider requires it, that you are most definitely using the wrong 
> provider.
>

Our network bandwidth provider does not limit our output, and this is not 
the case at all.

Thanks for all the answers and questions.

Steve

> -- 
> Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
>
> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
>
>     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
>     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
>
>  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.
>
> 




From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun 14 15:05:05 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 06:05:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 404 for pipermail - where's the data live?
In-Reply-To: <20060614010045.44ce31b6.ke6isf@chez-vrolet.net>
Message-ID: <PC17402006061406050500934a8eade2@msapiro>

Dennis Carr wrote:
>
>Suffice it to say, I've followed these directions, yet I'm still
>getting the 404.  What am I doing wrong?


What is the 'Alias /pipermail/' directive in your httpd.conf?

What is the path to Mailman's archives/ directory?

What do the following show?

ls -l /path/to/archives/
ls -l /path/to/archives/private/
ls -l /path/to/archives/public/

What URI gives the 404?

What's in the apache error-log file for this 404?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Jun 14 19:27:57 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 12:27:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
In-Reply-To: <007501c68fb2$2aa07fb0$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
References: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71><1150204620.3125.8.camel@
	tara.firmix.at><p06200709c0b486ba7b70@[192.168.2.144]><1150234703.
	3043.13.camel@gimli.at.home>
	<p06200714c0b4ed8a942d@[192.168.2.144]>
	<007501c68fb2$2aa07fb0$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
Message-ID: <p0620071ec0b5de20f79d@[192.168.2.144]>

At 8:58 AM -0400 2006-06-14, Steve Campbell wrote:

>>>   Yes. But "normally" you don't throw 22.000 emails at once on your MTA.
>
>  But if my list has 22,000 members, isn't that what I am doing?

	Maybe, but not necessarily.

>                                                                 Or is
>  it dependent on the MAX_SMTP_RCPTS parameter, as mentioned above?

	Yes, it is.  If you have VERP and/or personalization turned on, 
then you are actually sending a unique copy of each message to each 
recipient, and the MAX_SMTP_RCPTS parameter does not come into play.

>                        Secondly, the mail list software does not seem to
>  handle bounce conditions.

	That's bad news.  Really bad.

>                            When the list sends to non-existent members,
>  bounces are returned through one of our primary MX gateways, which tend
>  to clog it up.

	Mailing list traffic should be independent of your main mail 
servers.  If the recipient machines are acting correctly, none of 
their bounces should be going back to the main mail servers, and 
mailing list traffic should not affect them.

>                 Thirdly, a lot of the above bounces are from AOL, Verizon,
>  etc, which have deemed the list sort of abusive, and do not accept mail
>  from the list, even though this is purely a subscription type mailing, so
>  I wanted to switch to Mailman for the bounce handling, and throttle so as
>  not to infuriate the AOLs and Verizons.

	If your mailing list software is not handling bounces properly, 
then I think I would have probably declared it to be spam-ish myself. 
That said, now that you've annoyed AOL and others, you're not going 
to get on their good side just by switching to Mailman.  You'll also 
need to get on their "whitelist" system.

>>  Yeah, but so far as I know, none of those mechanisms control the number
>>  of messages that are sent per period of time.  They control the number of
>>  a given set of processes you can have at any given period of time, but
>>  that has only the smallest impact on the number of messages sent per hour.
>
>  Does this include the MAX_QUEUE_RUN_SIZE, which I interpret as number
>  of envelops to send per queue runner instance?

	Yes, but if each envelope is to 500 people (or less), then you'll 
need to set your MAX_QUEUE_RUN_SIZE to an appropriately small number. 
More importantly, you'll need to make sure that you never allow more 
than one queue runner to be running at a time, and no more than one 
queue runner to be run per hour (or whatever).

	This is not likely to clear your mail queues in a reasonable 
period of time, and the actual amount of mail throughput per hour 
will be exceptionally bursty.  Even then, it will only approximate 
the real controls that you want, which is the number of recipients 
that are delivered per hour, and only in the vaguest possible manner.


	Trust me, if you're actually going to do throttling, you need to 
do it in a better and more controlled way.

>  Another sendmail question - how do you snuff the DSN for a sendmail
>  instance? Wouldn't the queueonly delivery method do that, or is there
>  a problem after that?

	The best way to do that is to change the period of time after 
which sendmail would generate a DSN for a given message based on how 
long that message has been in the queue.  You do this by changing the 
sendmail.cf.

>  Our network bandwidth provider does not limit our output, and this is not
>  the case at all.

	In that case, with a more intelligent configuration and a better 
mailing list manager, I don't think you're going to need throttling.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From campbell at cnpapers.com  Wed Jun 14 21:02:52 2006
From: campbell at cnpapers.com (Steve Campbell)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:02:52 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
References: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71><1150204620.3125.8.camel@
	tara.firmix.at><p06200709c0b486ba7b70@[192.168.2.144]><1150234703.
	3043.13.camel@gimli.at.home>
	<p06200714c0b4ed8a942d@[192.168.2.144]>
	<007501c68fb2$2aa07fb0$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<p0620071ec0b5de20f79d@[192.168.2.144]>
Message-ID: <003d01c68fe5$232778f0$0705000a@DDF5DW71>

Brad,

Ok, I've went around the world with this one, so maybe a fresh start is in 
order. I'm sure everyone is getting tired of seeing these "Throttling 
output" messages, especially the ones that don't digest. The more I think 
about it, the less complex it really becomes, thanks to all of the replies. 
So here is what I'm thinking and if someone steps on any point, sobeit, and 
I'll just about give up on this one.

1.   Set up a Mailman list in a normal fashion.
2.   Disable the mailman executable from delivering the outgoing mail, but 
create them in the queue (sort of a sendmail queueonly option). I'm not sure 
this one is possible, and will kill the entire scheme if not. I see a lot of 
possible ways this can be done, but I'm not a python programmer yet, so I 
hope this is do-able.
3   Run a sendmail qrunner with the specific -q option along with the 
proper -OMaxQueueRunSize option. This would point to the normal mqueue 
directory, or wherever Mailman puts the output files. This is fairly tunable 
upon a few runs. The MAX_SMTP_RCPTS config, -q, and -O commandline options 
should be enough.
4.   Let the dept. that set this up resolve the AOL/Verizon thing. The IT 
dept didn't have  much 'request for input' on this one.
5.   Move all of this to it's own server.

Number 2 above is the killer, as I'm not sure if the sendmail alias/piped 
command would control this, an option in the Mailman configs, or what. But 
all of this doesn't require a milter, is common sendmail stuff, and a slight 
change in the way Mailman handles the outgoing files (or maybe not). No 
queuegroups necessary either.

Don't know why it didn't hit me originally.

Thanks, and maybe this will go away if anyone can tell me about #2.

Steve






From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Jun 14 21:52:35 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 14:52:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
In-Reply-To: <003d01c68fe5$232778f0$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
References: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71><1150204620.3125.8.camel@
	tara.firmix.at><p06200709c0b486ba7b70@[192.168.2.144]><1150234703.
	3043.13.camel@gimli.at.home>
	<p06200714c0b4ed8a942d@[192.168.2.144]>
	<007501c68fb2$2aa07fb0$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<p0620071ec0b5de20f79d@[192.168.2.144]>
	<003d01c68fe5$232778f0$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
Message-ID: <p06200722c0b617f184c6@[192.168.2.144]>

At 3:02 PM -0400 2006-06-14, Steve Campbell wrote:

>  2.   Disable the mailman executable from delivering the outgoing mail, but
>  create them in the queue (sort of a sendmail queueonly option). I'm not sure
>  this one is possible, and will kill the entire scheme if not. I see a lot of
>  possible ways this can be done, but I'm not a python programmer yet, so I
>  hope this is do-able.

	This is an MTA configuration issue.  There's nothing here to 
"fix" within Mailman.

>  5.   Move all of this to it's own server.

	That's a pretty big point.  Mailing list servers should not be 
dependent on the normal mail servers, and vice-versa.

	In fact, I suspect that once you move the mailing list handling 
onto a separate server, all the need for any kind of throttling will 
go away completely.

>  Number 2 above is the killer, as I'm not sure if the sendmail alias/piped
>  command would control this, an option in the Mailman configs, or what.

	It's an issue that should be easy enough to fix through modifying 
the configuration file.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From campbell at cnpapers.com  Wed Jun 14 22:43:51 2006
From: campbell at cnpapers.com (Steve Campbell)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 16:43:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
References: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71><1150204620.3125.8.camel@
	tara.firmix.at><p06200709c0b486ba7b70@[192.168.2.144]><1150234703.
	3043.13.camel@gimli.at.home>
	<p06200714c0b4ed8a942d@[192.168.2.144]>
	<007501c68fb2$2aa07fb0$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<p0620071ec0b5de20f79d@[192.168.2.144]>
	<003d01c68fe5$232778f0$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<p06200722c0b617f184c6@[192.168.2.144]>
Message-ID: <001201c68ff3$3e783cd0$0705000a@DDF5DW71>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brad Knowles" <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
To: "Steve Campbell" <campbell at cnpapers.com>
Cc: "Brad Knowles" <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>; <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output


> At 3:02 PM -0400 2006-06-14, Steve Campbell wrote:
>
>>  2.   Disable the mailman executable from delivering the outgoing mail, 
>> but
>>  create them in the queue (sort of a sendmail queueonly option). I'm not 
>> sure
>>  this one is possible, and will kill the entire scheme if not. I see a 
>> lot of
>>  possible ways this can be done, but I'm not a python programmer yet, so 
>> I
>>  hope this is do-able.
>
> This is an MTA configuration issue.  There's nothing here to "fix" within 
> Mailman.

I think I just discovered that Mailman does deliver to the mqueue directory. 
I don't know where I got the idea that it delivered outgoing mail on its 
own. So yes, nothing to fix, just set up the proper outgoing queue runner 
with a few sendmail configs.
>
>>  5.   Move all of this to it's own server.
>
> That's a pretty big point.  Mailing list servers should not be dependent 
> on the normal mail servers, and vice-versa.
>
> In fact, I suspect that once you move the mailing list handling onto a 
> separate server, all the need for any kind of throttling will go away 
> completely.

Along with switching to Mailman, of course, to finally handle bounces.

>
>>  Number 2 above is the killer, as I'm not sure if the sendmail 
>> alias/piped
>>  command would control this, an option in the Mailman configs, or what.
>
> It's an issue that should be easy enough to fix through modifying the 
> configuration file.

I hope you mean sendmail configuration file!!!

Thanks all for the many replies (and great patience), and helping me 
understand a little more of how Mailman works.

Steve


>
> -- 
> Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
>
> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
>
>     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
>     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
>
>  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.
> 




From hdu at qualigo.de  Wed Jun 14 22:43:06 2006
From: hdu at qualigo.de (Haluk Durmus)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 23:43:06 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] post with members name
Message-ID: <20060614234307.448d0b30.hdu@qualigo.de>

Hello,

Is ist posible to use the members name from mailman, than 
the name providet by the email-client, for posting ?

I tried to set alias for mailman but when sending a mail the 
name stored in the e-mail client has a higher priority.

thanks,
Haluk


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Jun 14 23:05:02 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 16:05:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Throttling output
In-Reply-To: <001201c68ff3$3e783cd0$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
References: <00bc01c68eea$27a82420$0705000a@DDF5DW71><1150204620.3125.8.camel@
	tara.firmix.at><p06200709c0b486ba7b70@[192.168.2.144]><1150234703.
	3043.13.camel@gimli.at.home>
	<p06200714c0b4ed8a942d@[192.168.2.144]>
	<007501c68fb2$2aa07fb0$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<p0620071ec0b5de20f79d@[192.168.2.144]>
	<003d01c68fe5$232778f0$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
	<p06200722c0b617f184c6@[192.168.2.144]>
	<001201c68ff3$3e783cd0$0705000a@DDF5DW71>
Message-ID: <p06200724c0b6263dde56@[192.168.2.144]>

At 4:43 PM -0400 2006-06-14, Steve Campbell wrote:

>>  This is an MTA configuration issue.  There's nothing here to "fix"
>>  within Mailman.
>
>  I think I just discovered that Mailman does deliver to the mqueue directory.

	It has it's own internal queue directory, yes.  But it does not 
deliver directly to the MTA mqueue directory, no.  Instead, it hands 
the message off to the MTA that it is configured to use -- usually 
port 25 on the "localhost".

>  I don't know where I got the idea that it delivered outgoing mail on its
>  own. So yes, nothing to fix, just set up the proper outgoing queue runner
>  with a few sendmail configs.

	Not correct.  The easiest way would be to run two copies of the 
MTA on your machine.  One copy listens on port 25, and runs normally. 
This is for inbound mail.

	The other copy of sendmail listens on a different port (maybe 
port 26) on the "localhost" interface only, and on the command-line 
you give it a different configuration file to work from -- that 
configuration file causes the second copy of sendmail to work in 
"queueonly" mode, does not have any queue runners, and has a 
different mqueue directory.  You then control the queue runners for 
that second instance of sendmail yourself.

	You then configure Mailman to deliver all outgoing mail to this 
second copy of sendmail.


	I still think that this is not a good configuration for doing 
throttling, because you have only indirect controls over the number 
of message deliveries that occur in a given unit of time.

	The milter technique would be a much more direct method of 
control over throttling.

>>  It's an issue that should be easy enough to fix through modifying
>>  the configuration file.
>
>  I hope you mean sendmail configuration file!!!

	Yes.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From mdbiker at goldray.com  Wed Jun 14 23:18:54 2006
From: mdbiker at goldray.com (Harold Goldstein)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 17:18:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems in posting to a list
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20060614171720.02970b10@mail.goldray.com>

i am an administrator (but i didn't install it nor do i have access to the 
server) of an announcement only mailing list.

despite having 3 addresses listed as administrator and moderator, we have 
only been able to use one address to post. that was ok till last week when 
we were subject to a spoofing attack appearing to come from that address.

i removed that address, having forgotten about the problem in posting from 
the others. now i cannot post to the list at all even though i returned the 
removed address.

for each i get back a "this is an announcement list - send your email to 
xxxx for posting" and now even xxxx cannot post.

so the problem is that even though listed as admin/mod i cannot post.
(i can get around this by holding posts and then approving them but i'd 
rather post directly)

thanks

                                                               harold ...
------------------------------------------------------------
  Harold Goldstein - mdbiker at goldray.com ~~,__o   ~^^
  Goldray Consulting:  http://goldray.com/ ~_-\  < ,   ~  o \
  Web Development/Internet Training         (*)/ (*)  ~  / {   \
  Save The Apes: http://bushmeat.net/                     /   { o}
amber for everyone - http://amberlady.com - fossil bugs too  

From bob at morsemedia.net  Wed Jun 14 19:43:11 2006
From: bob at morsemedia.net (Bob Morse)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 10:43:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moved servers, lists not working
Message-ID: <C0B598BF.30678%bob@morsemedia.net>

I moved a bunch of accounts from one server to another. Everything
transferred, lists, archives, settings, etc. But when subscribers send an
email to any of the lists they messages don't get distributed,  or in the
case of moderated lists, the messages don't go in to the moderator que.




From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Jun 15 01:02:21 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 18:02:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in Mailman 2.1.4
In-Reply-To: <p06230917c0b4a5d25910@10.0.1.2>
References: <p06230916c0b49ca83309@10.0.1.2>
	<6fbe3da00606130957n5508863cp346d220f18cb87b@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06230917c0b4a5d25910@10.0.1.2>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606141602h22290151h1ac64b4ada9275c@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/13/06, Bob Bergey <bob at bergey.net> wrote:
> At 11:57 AM -0500 on 6/13/06, Patrick Bogen wrote:
> >  http://rentzsch.com/macosx/mailmanWorkaround
> Wow -- that's exactly my problem! Thanks for the tip -- I'll try it
> later today.

Let us know how it goes.

> I'm a little scared to upgrade -- still running OS 10.3.9 on my
> Xserve, and have been reluctant to upgrade Mailman, mainly because
> I'm just not familiar with the process. Have you upgraded Mailman on
> an Xserve, and had any problems?
I haven't; all of our machines are Debian GNU/Linux. The upgrade
should be fairly standard, but don't take my word for it. If you can,
it might be wiser to try the upgrade on a different machine (another,
similar Xserve, but one you don't rely on for a functional mailman) to
get the feel of it.

P.S., Please CC the list on all replies.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Jun 15 01:06:01 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 18:06:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems in posting to a list
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20060614171720.02970b10@mail.goldray.com>
References: <6.1.2.0.0.20060614171720.02970b10@mail.goldray.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606141606j4383e2aeq34a8f557a9275aa5@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/14/06, Harold Goldstein <mdbiker at goldray.com> wrote:
> i am an administrator (but i didn't install it nor do i have access to the
> server) of an announcement only mailing list.
>
> despite having 3 addresses listed as administrator and moderator, we have
> only been able to use one address to post. that was ok till last week when
> we were subject to a spoofing attack appearing to come from that address.

The 'administrator' and 'moderator' addresses aren't considered when
determining if a message is to be allowed.

Any addresses you'd like to accept mail from, add to
'accept_these_nonmembers' under 'Sender filters' under 'Privacy
Options' in the web interface.

ALTERNATIVELY, include as the first line of your message: 'Approved:
<list admin password>' (this is better, since it's totally proof
against spoofing. Man-in-the-middle attacks, however, can
theoretically intercept your mail on the way to the server, and get
the password out of it. FYI.)

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Jun 15 01:06:51 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 18:06:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moved servers, lists not working
In-Reply-To: <C0B598BF.30678%bob@morsemedia.net>
References: <C0B598BF.30678%bob@morsemedia.net>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00606141606y46c2282al5a5ff29808fe7a57@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/14/06, Bob Morse <bob at morsemedia.net> wrote:
> I moved a bunch of accounts from one server to another. Everything
> transferred, lists, archives, settings, etc. But when subscribers send an
> email to any of the lists they messages don't get distributed,  or in the
> case of moderated lists, the messages don't go in to the moderator que.

Can you check the various mailman and MTA logs to see if the mails are
even reaching mailman?

This sounds like an MTA setting to me. Aliases not set or not being obeyed?

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From mdbiker at goldray.com  Thu Jun 15 01:38:20 2006
From: