<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px">But if we have good triage tags of how ever many levels of severity we choose, and thus filter issues/PRs based on those, doesn't that solve the described problem? No more distraction, distress nor wasted time, right? Just a short list of triaged issues when filtering based on severity.<br><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1541172849736_46594"><span></span><br></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1541172849736_46542" style="display: block;"> <div style="font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1541172849736_46541"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1541172849736_46540"> <div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1541172849736_46539"> <font id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1541172849736_46538" size="2" face="Arial"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Eric Firing <efiring@hawaii.edu><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Benjamin Root <ben.v.root@gmail.com>; OceanWolf <juichenieder-nabb@yahoo.co.uk> <br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> matplotlib development list <matplotlib-devel@python.org><br> <b id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1541172849736_48271"><span style="font-weight: bold;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1541172849736_48270">Sent:</span></b> Friday, 2 November 2018, 19:34<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Matplotlib-devel] please be slower to close bug reports from first-time reporters<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1541172849736_46548"><br><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1541172849736_46547">Good points.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">I have no objection to a moderate slowing down of closing new issues, to <br clear="none">give the submitter time to respond and to reduce the likelihood of <br clear="none">closing an issue based on a misunderstanding.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Nevertheless, the basic point remains: we need ways of focusing <br clear="none">attention and reducing the distraction, distress, and wasted time caused <br clear="none">by the excessively long list of open issues.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Eric<br clear="none"><br clear="none">On 2018/11/02 7:58 AM, Benjamin Root wrote:<br clear="none">> I think part of the issue is literally how quickly some of these issues <br clear="none">> are being closed, not so much that they are being closed. I have seen <br clear="none">> issues get closed within minutes of being opened up, and even as a <br clear="none">> long-time contributor, that has come across as jarring to me. I worry <br clear="none">> that it may convey a lack of consideration of the issue. Even if we know <br clear="none">> 100% that the issue should be closed, closing within just a few minutes <br clear="none">> might make submitters feel like their issue wasn't fully absorbed. If <br clear="none">> they spent 10 minutes or more writing up their issue, and it gets closed <br clear="none">> in 2 minutes, they might feel like there was a net negative amount of <br clear="none">> effort in the discussion. Maybe the problem is totally on their end and <br clear="none">> they are doing something wrong, but closing the issue so quickly may <br clear="none">> make them feel like they are left adrift.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> I especially worry about the issues that get closed and redirected to <br clear="none">> the mailing list or stackoverflow. In the past few months, I think I <br clear="none">> have only seen one issue get re-raised on the mailing list. I don't <br clear="none">> follow stackoverflow, so I don't know if those issues are getting <br clear="none">> discussed there or not. Does anybody have a sense for that?<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> And finally, we need to remember that we may indeed be misreading some <br clear="none">> issues. I accidentally closed an issue too quickly last week, too, <br clear="none">> because I thought it was the same-old mplot3d can't render things right <br clear="none">> problem. Turns out it was much more nuanced, and while we couldn't <br clear="none">> really solve the problem anyway, I think I did pounce too quickly on <br clear="none">> that close button.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> Cheers!<br clear="none">> Ben Root<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 1:41 PM OceanWolf via Matplotlib-devel <br clear="none">> <<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:matplotlib-devel@python.org" href="mailto:matplotlib-devel@python.org">matplotlib-devel@python.org</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:matplotlib-devel@python.org" href="mailto:matplotlib-devel@python.org">matplotlib-devel@python.org</a>>> wrote:<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> But doesn't the issue of triage mean we distinguish between<br clear="none">> issues/PRs based on severity e.g. ranging from critical to<br clear="none">> wishlist. To me at least open suggests that the issue still exists<br clear="none">> and closed means that it doesn't exist as a issue for us, either<br clear="none">> because we don't see it as an issue, or because it has been fixed,<br clear="none">> and thus says nothing about triage state.<br clear="none">> In terms of workflow I see the difference as if something has been<br clear="none">> marked closed and someone comes along with the same issue, it can<br clear="none">> give the suggestion that we don't value the reopening the issue/PR,<br clear="none">> and thus it indicates that we value it a waste of time for anyone to<br clear="none">> spend their time on it, and for some issues that might exist as the<br clear="none">> case seeing something as out of scope for MPL, but for others we<br clear="none">> should just assign a low triage status to it so that if we get<br clear="none">> people super keen about a particular issue then we let them know<br clear="none">> that we welcome their input on it :).<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br clear="none">> *From:* Eric Firing <<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:efiring@hawaii.edu" href="mailto:efiring@hawaii.edu">efiring@hawaii.edu</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:efiring@hawaii.edu" href="mailto:efiring@hawaii.edu">efiring@hawaii.edu</a>>><br clear="none">> *To:* <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:matplotlib-devel@python.org" href="mailto:matplotlib-devel@python.org">matplotlib-devel@python.org</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:matplotlib-devel@python.org" href="mailto:matplotlib-devel@python.org">matplotlib-devel@python.org</a>><br clear="none">> *Sent:* Friday, 2 November 2018, 18:14<br clear="none">> *Subject:* Re: [Matplotlib-devel] please be slower to close bug<br clear="none">> reports from first-time reporters<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> On 2018/11/02 5:03 AM, Thomas Caswell wrote:<br clear="none">> > The backlog problem is also real, however I am not sure that just<br clear="none">> > closing old issues / PRs and rapidly closing new issues will<br clear="none">> actually<br clear="none">> > make it better. It will make the number smaller, but the underlying<br clear="none">> > issues (either the bugs or documentation deficiencies) will still<br clear="none">> be there.<br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> Tom,<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> It is a matter of triage. I think you are missing a critical point:<br clear="none">> closing issues *can* make the situation better by reducing the time<br clear="none">> that<br clear="none">> is lost on scanning them, or diving into them, when that time would be<br clear="none">> better spent actually fixing something. Furthermore, the list of open<br clear="none">> issues can simply be overwhelming, discouraging work by existing<br clear="none">> developers, and probably also discouraging potential developers from<br clear="none">> joining us.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> It is not a tragedy if a genuine issue is closed. If it is reporting a<br clear="none">> major problem, it will crop up again, and eventually get the necessary<br clear="none">> attention.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> There will *always* be bugs and documentation deficiencies; the<br clear="none">> question<br clear="none">> is how to maximize available developer time and attention, and how to<br clear="none">> make the best use of it.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> Eric<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> _______________________________________________<br clear="none">> Matplotlib-devel mailing list<br clear="none">> <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Matplotlib-devel@python.org" href="mailto:Matplotlib-devel@python.org">Matplotlib-devel@python.org</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Matplotlib-devel@python.org" href="mailto:Matplotlib-devel@python.org">Matplotlib-devel@python.org</a>><br clear="none">> <a shape="rect" href="https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/matplotlib-devel" target="_blank">https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/matplotlib-devel</a><br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> _______________________________________________<br clear="none">> Matplotlib-devel mailing list<br clear="none">> <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Matplotlib-devel@python.org" href="mailto:Matplotlib-devel@python.org">Matplotlib-devel@python.org</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Matplotlib-devel@python.org" href="mailto:Matplotlib-devel@python.org">Matplotlib-devel@python.org</a>><div class="yqt0377111766" id="yqtfd12034"><br clear="none">> <a shape="rect" href="https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/matplotlib-devel" target="_blank">https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/matplotlib-devel</a><br clear="none">> <br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div></div></body></html>