[Pydotorg-redesign] how to search the site

[Laura Creighton]

In a message of Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:19:27 BST, "Tim Parkin" writes:
>
>>>http://pollenation.net/assets/public/python-google.png
>>
>If we use google we won't get any more advanced features or sub searches
>etc. It's a wideley discovered fact that only about 0.5% of people use
>the advanced search anyway although for those that do it's a very
>important feature. Taking this into account, a basic full search should
>be available everywhere and an advanced search should be available on
>the results page. These advanced search options are the reason I for one
>would like to us a dedicated search like lupy. And no we can't change
>the size of the google logo and it looked silly inside the button
>unfortunately.

I think you can get one size smaller than the one you are using, unless
I have an old version of your page here.  There is also the 
'Powered bY Google ' sticker which might look better if we cannot
get it in a button.

>
>>'External resources' is a bad wording to put on a search box that
>>is to be read, let alone used, by newbies.  They have no idea what
>>is and what is not external.  And so they feel stupid, as if they
>>were supposed to know this already.  This feels worse than not
>>'knowing what the starship is' -- because it is open ended.

>External resources is not the search box, it's a quick link to outside
>resources (trying to get rid of all those external links whilst making
>them still quickly available) so it obviously needs making more obvious
>that it is at the moment. I'll think on that one.

I'm sorry I was not clear.  Let me try again.

I am vehemently opposed to the words 'external resources'.  This is
because when a newbie shows up, wants to search something, and 
sees the box, they will say 'what is an external resource'.  Either
they will be completely blank, and the notion of 'some resources are
external to python.org and some are not' is a new concept which they
do not know, yet, or they are familiar with that concept but have no
idea what stuff we have here, and what lives other places (like
pythonology.org) and whether we consider the mailing lists as part
of python.org or not.

When you are using a search form, you are saying 'I don't know where
this stuff is'.  Thus when you first need to know something that
you don't know, the experience is very frustrating, often frustrating
enough to make complete newbies _leave the site_.

Searching 'other python websites not connected to python.org' is
a better option.  (Plus it will encourage others to link to us
for this service, which means we get automatic updates on lists
of all python resources.  This is good.)

I think searching the python cookbook would be wonderful.  And since
I hate the way ActiveState's search works, too, I'd love a
different interface to use it.

Seaching 'the vaults' might be good, though not if we intend to
go through the lot and make them Packages.  Then a making a
'how to find a package' one click away makes sense, but I still
don't know what our intentions are w.r.t. packages.

(I'd love to discuss that, but I also have to catch a train to
Stockholm, be back Thursday late.  )

Which of these things to search belongs on an advanced search form,
and which belongs on the box, needs to be thought about.  First
we need the list of categories.  

>As I said I think it's great to have a search box on every page but just
>a simple one with room for two or three words. Anything more advanced
>can use the 'advanced search' facility, which they should only be using
>if they don't get results from the simple search. My tendency now is to
>try to make the basic search as useful as possible (with domain specific
>results and offering alternatives) instead of forcing people to try to
>use an advanced search, athough the advanced search should still be
>available.

I don't see why '2 or 3 words' is connected to whether you need an advanced
search.  I often search for exact phrases.  Whenever I see a small
search box, I always wonder 'do these people simply not care about
usability, or am I really all that weird when it comes to searches?'

Of course, from my point of view, there isn't anything that you could
use the space for that I would like as much as enough room to type in
'Alex Martelli' + 'Hotel Belfiori' or other things of that length
that I want to search on.   (That's Alex's article that explains
what a reference is in a neat way, by the way).

Laura