<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br><div><div>On 17 Jan, 2012, at 11:59, anatoly techtonik wrote:</div><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><br></font></blockquote><div><br></div>If you track this more closely, you'll notice there are four issues (surprises) from the user point of view:</div><div class="gmail_quote">1. print() buffers output on Python3</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">2. print() also buffers output on Python2, but only on Linux</div><div class="gmail_quote">3. there is some useless '-u' command line parameter</div><div class="gmail_quote"> (useless, because the last thing user wants is not only care about Python 2/3, but also how to invoke them)</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">4. print() is not guilty - it is sys.stdout.write() that buffers output</div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">1-2 discussion was about idea to make new print() function behavior more 'pythonic', i.e. 'user-friendly' or just KISS, which resulted in adding a flush parameter</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">3 is a just a side FYI remark</div><div class="gmail_quote">4 doesn't relate to python-ideas anymore about fixing print() - it is about the *cause* of the problem with print() UX, which is underlying sys.stdout.write() behavior</div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">I asked 4 here, because it is the more appropriate place not only to ask if it can be/will be fixed, but also why. The target audience of the question are developers.</div></blockquote><div><br></div>All four "issues" are related to output buffering and how that is not user-friendly. The new issue you raise is the same as before: sys.stdout is line buffered when writing to a tty, which means that you have to explictly flush output when you want to output a partial line. Why is this a problem for you? Is that something that bothers you personally or do you have data that suggests that this is a problem for a significant amount of (new) users?</div><div><br></div><div>Ronald</div><div><br></div></body></html>