spoke too early on its done sorry<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 2:04 PM, Ryan Paullin <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ryanpaullin@gmail.com" target="_blank">ryanpaullin@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">thanks for the reply hastings ive been working on a loopback interface its done<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 3:00 AM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:python-dev-request@python.org" target="_blank">python-dev-request@python.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send Python-Dev mailing list submissions to<br>
<a href="mailto:python-dev@python.org" target="_blank">python-dev@python.org</a><br>
<br>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
<a href="http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev" target="_blank">http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev</a><br>
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
<a href="mailto:python-dev-request@python.org" target="_blank">python-dev-request@python.org</a><br>
<br>
You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
<a href="mailto:python-dev-owner@python.org" target="_blank">python-dev-owner@python.org</a><br>
<br>
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
than "Re: Contents of Python-Dev digest..."<br>
<br>
<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: GitHub mirror (Was: Bitbucket mirror?) (<a href="mailto:martin@v.loewis.de" target="_blank">martin@v.loewis.de</a>)<br>
2. Bloody FAQ (Was: [Python-ideas] itertools.chunks(iterable,<br>
size, fill=None)) (anatoly techtonik)<br>
3. Re: Bloody FAQ (Was: [Python-ideas]<br>
itertools.chunks(iterable, size, fill=None)) (Mark Lawrence)<br>
4. Re: Bloody FAQ (Was: [Python-ideas]<br>
itertools.chunks(iterable, size, fill=None)) (Stefan Behnel)<br>
5. Re: Bloody FAQ (Was: [Python-ideas]<br>
itertools.chunks(iterable, size, fill=None)) (Paul Boddie)<br>
6. EuroPython 2012 Language Summit is Canceled. (Larry Hastings)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 20:27:02 +0200<br>
From: <a href="mailto:martin@v.loewis.de" target="_blank">martin@v.loewis.de</a><br>
To: <a href="mailto:python-dev@python.org" target="_blank">python-dev@python.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] GitHub mirror (Was: Bitbucket mirror?)<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:20120705202702.Horde.Yh-RBqGZi1VP9dx2H7Nj-nA@webmail.df.eu" target="_blank">20120705202702.Horde.Yh-RBqGZi1VP9dx2H7Nj-nA@webmail.df.eu</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; DelSp=Yes<br>
<br>
>> You won't get any changes in to CPython by creating pull requests. We<br>
>> use <a href="http://bugs.python.org/" target="_blank">http://bugs.python.org/</a> for that, sorry.<br>
><br>
> Question -- is there a reason to abide by this rule for docs? That is, if we<br>
> could get a sympathetic core dev to look at pull requests for docs as part of<br>
> a streamlined process, would it cause problems?<br>
<br>
How do you communicate a "pull request"? On bitbucket, there is a<br>
"pull request"<br>
UI resulting in a tracker item being generated (and an email being sent), but<br>
<a href="http://hg.python.org" target="_blank">hg.python.org</a> doesn't have a notion of pull requests. Of course, you could<br>
use any communication means (email, telephone call, carrier pigeon) to request<br>
a pull from a "sympathetic core dev".<br>
<br>
> (What I'm really asking is whether or the <a href="http://bugs.python.org" target="_blank">bugs.python.org</a> process is<br>
> considered critical for potentially minor doc changes and additions.)<br>
<br>
The sympathetic core dev is mostly free to bypass any submission process<br>
initially; commits that bypass established procedures will likely be<br>
questioned<br>
only after the fact.<br>
<br>
In the specific case, I'd be worried to verify that the submitter has provided<br>
a contributor form. That's easy to do in the bug tracker, but difficult to do<br>
in an offline pull request. Of course, for a really minor doc change<br>
(e.g. typo<br>
fixes), no contrib form is necessary.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Martin<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 22:41:29 +0300<br>
From: anatoly techtonik <<a href="mailto:techtonik@gmail.com" target="_blank">techtonik@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Stefan Behnel <<a href="mailto:stefan_ml@behnel.de" target="_blank">stefan_ml@behnel.de</a>><br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:python-ideas@python.org" target="_blank">python-ideas@python.org</a>, <a href="mailto:python-dev@python.org" target="_blank">python-dev@python.org</a><br>
Subject: [Python-Dev] Bloody FAQ (Was: [Python-ideas]<br>
itertools.chunks(iterable, size, fill=None))<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAPkN8x+A-OYWNLNKDH=<a href="mailto:6GnQn%2Bo_Tb3LMnimHYs9zkYmWR1GTgA@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">6GnQn+o_Tb3LMnimHYs9zkYmWR1GTgA@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8<br>
<br>
On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 7:50 PM, Stefan Behnel <<a href="mailto:stefan_ml@behnel.de" target="_blank">stefan_ml@behnel.de</a>> wrote:<br>
> anatoly techtonik, 05.07.2012 15:36:<br>
>> On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 12:09 AM, Terry Reedy wrote:<br>
>>> From Raymond's first message on <a href="http://bugs.python.org/issue6021" target="_blank">http://bugs.python.org/issue6021</a> , add<br>
>>> grouper:<br>
>>><br>
>>> "This has been rejected before.<br>
>><br>
>> I quite often see such arguments and I can't stand to repeat that<br>
>> these are not arguments. It is good to know, but when people use that<br>
>> as a reason to close tickets - that's just disgusting.<br>
><br>
> The *real* problem is that people keep bringing up topics (and even spell<br>
> them out in the bug tracker) without searching for existing discussions<br>
> and/or tickets first. That's why those who do such a search (or who know<br>
> what they are talking about anyway) close these tickets with the remark<br>
> "this has been rejected before", instead of repeating an entire heap of<br>
> arguments all over again to feed a discussion that would only lead to the<br>
> same result as it did before, often several times before.<br>
<br>
Make the bloody FAQ and summarize this stuff? Why waste each others<br>
time? If people don't enjoy repeating themselves over and over - there<br>
is a bloody wiki. What should happen to people to start extracting<br>
gems of knowledge from piles of dusty sheets called list "archives"<br>
for others to admire.<br>
<br>
No, it is easier to say "it was already discussed many times", "why<br>
don't you Google yourself", "so far you're only complaining", etc. If<br>
people can't find anything - why everybody thinks they are ignorant<br>
and lazy. Even if it so, why nobody thinks that maybe that bloody<br>
Xapian index is dead again for a bloody amount of moons nobody knows<br>
why and how many exactly? Why nobody thinks that lazy coders can also<br>
help with development? Maybe that laziness is the primary reason some<br>
major groups actually prefer Python to Java, C++ and other more<br>
interesting languages (such as PHP) when it comes to typing? Make it<br>
easy and the patches will follow. Answers like "this was discussed<br>
before" don't make it easy to understand, and leaving users rereading<br>
old 19xx archives that people don't reread themselves will likely make<br>
users bounce and never (NEVER!) come up with some proposal again. An<br>
"organic" way to keep traffic low.<br>
<br>
Miscommunication is a bad experience for users, bad experience for<br>
developers, everybody is annoyed and as a result such nice language as<br>
Python loses points on TIOBE (and convenient chunk() functions to<br>
munch-munch on the sequence data).<br>
<br>
Wheew. :-F<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 20:55:09 +0100<br>
From: Mark Lawrence <<a href="mailto:breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk" target="_blank">breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:python-dev@python.org" target="_blank">python-dev@python.org</a><br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:python-ideas@python.org" target="_blank">python-ideas@python.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] Bloody FAQ (Was: [Python-ideas]<br>
itertools.chunks(iterable, size, fill=None))<br>
Message-ID: <jt4re5$3gs$<a href="mailto:1@dough.gmane.org" target="_blank">1@dough.gmane.org</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed<br>
<br>
On 05/07/2012 20:41, anatoly techtonik wrote:<br>
> On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 7:50 PM, Stefan Behnel <<a href="mailto:stefan_ml@behnel.de" target="_blank">stefan_ml@behnel.de</a>> wrote:<br>
>> anatoly techtonik, 05.07.2012 15:36:<br>
>>> On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 12:09 AM, Terry Reedy wrote:<br>
>>>> From Raymond's first message on <a href="http://bugs.python.org/issue6021" target="_blank">http://bugs.python.org/issue6021</a> , add<br>
>>>> grouper:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> "This has been rejected before.<br>
>>><br>
>>> I quite often see such arguments and I can't stand to repeat that<br>
>>> these are not arguments. It is good to know, but when people use that<br>
>>> as a reason to close tickets - that's just disgusting.<br>
>><br>
>> The *real* problem is that people keep bringing up topics (and even spell<br>
>> them out in the bug tracker) without searching for existing discussions<br>
>> and/or tickets first. That's why those who do such a search (or who know<br>
>> what they are talking about anyway) close these tickets with the remark<br>
>> "this has been rejected before", instead of repeating an entire heap of<br>
>> arguments all over again to feed a discussion that would only lead to the<br>
>> same result as it did before, often several times before.<br>
><br>
> Make the bloody FAQ and summarize this stuff? Why waste each others<br>
> time? If people don't enjoy repeating themselves over and over - there<br>
> is a bloody wiki. What should happen to people to start extracting<br>
> gems of knowledge from piles of dusty sheets called list "archives"<br>
> for others to admire.<br>
><br>
> No, it is easier to say "it was already discussed many times", "why<br>
> don't you Google yourself", "so far you're only complaining", etc. If<br>
> people can't find anything - why everybody thinks they are ignorant<br>
> and lazy. Even if it so, why nobody thinks that maybe that bloody<br>
> Xapian index is dead again for a bloody amount of moons nobody knows<br>
> why and how many exactly? Why nobody thinks that lazy coders can also<br>
> help with development? Maybe that laziness is the primary reason some<br>
> major groups actually prefer Python to Java, C++ and other more<br>
> interesting languages (such as PHP) when it comes to typing? Make it<br>
> easy and the patches will follow. Answers like "this was discussed<br>
> before" don't make it easy to understand, and leaving users rereading<br>
> old 19xx archives that people don't reread themselves will likely make<br>
> users bounce and never (NEVER!) come up with some proposal again. An<br>
> "organic" way to keep traffic low.<br>
><br>
> Miscommunication is a bad experience for users, bad experience for<br>
> developers, everybody is annoyed and as a result such nice language as<br>
> Python loses points on TIOBE (and convenient chunk() functions to<br>
> munch-munch on the sequence data).<br>
><br>
> Wheew. :-F<br>
><br>
<br>
Can I safely assume that you are volunteering to do the work required?<br>
<br>
--<br>
Cheers.<br>
<br>
Mark Lawrence.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 21:58:52 +0200<br>
From: Stefan Behnel <<a href="mailto:stefan_ml@behnel.de" target="_blank">stefan_ml@behnel.de</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:python-dev@python.org" target="_blank">python-dev@python.org</a><br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:python-ideas@python.org" target="_blank">python-ideas@python.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] Bloody FAQ (Was: [Python-ideas]<br>
itertools.chunks(iterable, size, fill=None))<br>
Message-ID: <jt4rlt$45k$<a href="mailto:1@dough.gmane.org" target="_blank">1@dough.gmane.org</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8<br>
<br>
anatoly techtonik, 05.07.2012 21:41:<br>
> On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 7:50 PM, Stefan Behnel wrote:<br>
>> anatoly techtonik, 05.07.2012 15:36:<br>
>>> On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 12:09 AM, Terry Reedy wrote:<br>
>>>> From Raymond's first message on <a href="http://bugs.python.org/issue6021" target="_blank">http://bugs.python.org/issue6021</a> , add<br>
>>>> grouper:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> "This has been rejected before.<br>
>>><br>
>>> I quite often see such arguments and I can't stand to repeat that<br>
>>> these are not arguments. It is good to know, but when people use that<br>
>>> as a reason to close tickets - that's just disgusting.<br>
>><br>
>> The *real* problem is that people keep bringing up topics (and even spell<br>
>> them out in the bug tracker) without searching for existing discussions<br>
>> and/or tickets first. That's why those who do such a search (or who know<br>
>> what they are talking about anyway) close these tickets with the remark<br>
>> "this has been rejected before", instead of repeating an entire heap of<br>
>> arguments all over again to feed a discussion that would only lead to the<br>
>> same result as it did before, often several times before.<br>
><br>
> Make the bloody FAQ and summarize this stuff? Why waste each others<br>
> time?<br>
<br>
Yes, that is exactly the question.<br>
<br>
It takes time to write things up nicely. I mean, once someone has pointed<br>
out to you that this has been discussed before, you could just go, look it<br>
up (or search for it), and then put it into a Wiki or blog post yourself,<br>
or sum it up and send it to the mailing list as a reply. Why rely on others<br>
to do it for you?<br>
<br>
Stefan<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 5<br>
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 23:11:46 +0200<br>
From: Paul Boddie <<a href="mailto:paul@boddie.org.uk" target="_blank">paul@boddie.org.uk</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:python-dev@python.org" target="_blank">python-dev@python.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] Bloody FAQ (Was: [Python-ideas]<br>
itertools.chunks(iterable, size, fill=None))<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:201207052311.46867.paul@boddie.org.uk" target="_blank">201207052311.46867.paul@boddie.org.uk</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Stefan Behnel wrote:<br>
> anatoly techtonik, 05.07.2012 21:41:<br>
> ><br>
> > Make the bloody FAQ and summarize this stuff? Why waste each others<br>
> > time?<br>
><br>
> Yes, that is exactly the question.<br>
><br>
> It takes time to write things up nicely. I mean, once someone has pointed<br>
> out to you that this has been discussed before, you could just go, look it<br>
> up (or search for it), and then put it into a Wiki or blog post yourself,<br>
> or sum it up and send it to the mailing list as a reply. Why rely on others<br>
> to do it for you?<br>
<br>
To be fair, Anatoly has done quite a bit of maintenance on some of the Wiki<br>
content around various aspects of the project, so it's not as if he's<br>
demanding anything out of the ordinary or asking for others to do things that<br>
he isn't already doing in some sense. My experience is that there usually<br>
needs to be some willingness on the other end of the transaction, and if it<br>
takes repetition to encourage it amongst those who don't see the current<br>
situation as a problem for them, then so be it.<br>
<br>
Of course, this kind of documentation activity, where one gathers together<br>
historical decisions and the consensus from long-forgotten discussions, is<br>
pretty thankless work. I occasionally regard it as worthwhile if only to<br>
bring up something someone said as an inconvenient interruption in any<br>
current discussion, but that's a pretty minimal reward for all the effort<br>
unless one has such work as part of one's daily routine.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 6<br>
Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 08:47:30 +0200<br>
From: Larry Hastings <<a href="mailto:larry@hastings.org" target="_blank">larry@hastings.org</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:python-dev@python.org" target="_blank">python-dev@python.org</a>, <a href="mailto:python-committers@python.org" target="_blank">python-committers@python.org</a><br>
Subject: [Python-Dev] EuroPython 2012 Language Summit is Canceled.<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:4FF68A02.8000500@hastings.org" target="_blank">4FF68A02.8000500@hastings.org</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I only got one more RSVP and zero topics for the docket. So let's<br>
sprint instead.<br>
<br>
See you at the PyCon 2013 Language Summit,<br>
<br>
<br>
//arry/<br>
-------------- next part --------------<br>
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
URL: <<a href="http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/attachments/20120706/f13295aa/attachment-0001.html" target="_blank">http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/attachments/20120706/f13295aa/attachment-0001.html</a>><br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Python-Dev mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Python-Dev@python.org" target="_blank">Python-Dev@python.org</a><br>
<a href="http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev" target="_blank">http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev</a><br>
<br>
<br>
End of Python-Dev Digest, Vol 108, Issue 7<br>
******************************************<br>
</blockquote></div><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>