<html><head></head><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div>I think becoming an apple signed developer to get a cert is the best approach.</div><div><br></div><div>If anyone wanted to approach apple about open source/non profit gratis licenses, that would be appreciated. </div><div><br></div><div>Otherwise I could do it / fund it from the PSF board side, which I am happy to do.</div><div><br></div><div>I also concur with Raymond that the download/install instructions could be simplified. Noting for users that rather than downloading Xcode, they can just download the OSX Command Line Tools installer and easy_install/pip/etc will just work would also be nice</div><div><br></div><div>Jesse <br><br>On Aug 14, 2012, at 8:33 PM, Raymond Hettinger <<a href="mailto:raymond.hettinger@gmail.com">raymond.hettinger@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=us-ascii">On Mountain Lion, the default security settings only allow installation of applications downloaded from the Mac App Stored and "identified developers".<div><br></div><div>We need to either become an "identified developer" or include some instructions on how to change the security settings (System Preference -- General -- Unlock --Select the "Anywhere" radio button -- Install Python -- Restore the original settings -- and Relock). Changing the security settings isn't appealing because 1) it weakens the user's security 2) it involves multiple steps and 3) the user will see an unsettling warnings along the way. </div><div><br></div><div>Another unrelated issue is that the instructions for updating Tcl/Tk are problematic. In the past few months, I've witnessed hundreds of people unsuccessfully trying follow the instructions and having an immediate unpleasant out-of-the-box experience when IDLE crashes. I suggest that we stop being so indirect about the chain of footnotes and links leading to a Tcl/Tk download. I would like to see a direct Tcl/Tk updater link side-by-side with our Python installer link at <a href="http://www.python.org/download/releases/2.7.3/">http://www.python.org/download/releases/2.7.3/</a></div><div><br></div><div>Someone did add a note the the IDLE startup screen to the effect of: "WARNING: The version of Tcl/Tk (8.5.9) in use may be unstable.</div><div>Visit <a href="http://www.python.org/download/mac/tcltk/">http://www.python.org/download/mac/tcltk/</a> for current information." In some ways this is progress. In others, it falls short. If IDLE crashes, you can't see the message. If you have installed the ActiveTCL 8.5.12 update, you still see the warning eventhough it isn't necessary. Also, I don't link that the referenced page is so complex and that it is full unsettling warnings, important notices, do-not-use advice, mentions of instability, etc. </div><div><br></div><div>I would like to see our download page have something more simple, affirmative, positively worded and direct. For example:</div><div><span style="line-height: 1.5; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: Arial, Verdana, Geneva, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14.545454025268555px; "><br></span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">* </span><span style="line-height: 1.5; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: Arial, Verdana, Geneva, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14.545454025268555px; "> </span><a class="reference external" href="http://www.python.org/ftp/python/3.2.3/python-3.2.3-macosx10.6.dmg" style="line-height: 1.5; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: Arial, Verdana, Geneva, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14.545454025268555px; color: rgb(85, 26, 139); text-decoration: none; border-bottom-width: 1px; border-bottom-style: dashed; border-bottom-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); ">Mac OS X 64-bit/32-bit Installer (3.2.3) for Mac OS X 10.6 and 10.7</a><span style="line-height: 1.5; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: Arial, Verdana, Geneva, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14.545454025268555px; "> </span><a class="footnote-reference" href="http://www.python.org/download/releases/3.2.3/#id5" id="id2" style="line-height: 1.5; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: Arial, Verdana, Geneva, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14.545454025268555px; color: rgb(85, 26, 139); text-decoration: none; border-bottom-width: 1px; border-bottom-style: dashed; border-bottom-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); ">[2]</a><span style="line-height: 1.5; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: Arial, Verdana, Geneva, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14.545454025268555px; "> </span><a class="reference external" href="http://www.python.org/ftp/python/3.2.3/python-3.2.3-macosx10.6.dmg.asc" style="line-height: 1.5; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: Arial, Verdana, Geneva, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14.545454025268555px; color: rgb(85, 26, 139); text-decoration: none; border-bottom-width: 1px; border-bottom-style: dashed; border-bottom-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); ">(sig)</a><span style="line-height: 1.5; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: Arial, Verdana, Geneva, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14.545454025268555px; ">. To run IDLE or Tkinter, you need to update Tcl/Tk to </span><a class="reference internal" href="http://www.python.org/download/mac/tcltk/#activetcl-8-5-12" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: Arial, Verdana, Geneva, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14.545454025268555px; color: rgb(85, 26, 139); text-decoration: none; line-height: 17.81818199157715px; ">ActiveTcl 8.5.12</a> <<a href="http://www.activestate.com/activetcl/downloads">http://www.activestate.com/activetcl/downloads</a>><span style="line-height: 1.5; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: Arial, Verdana, Geneva, 'Bitstream Vera Sans', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14.545454025268555px; "> .</span></div><div><br></div><div>That saves you from having to click a links down to a footnote at the bottom of the page <<a href="http://www.python.org/download/releases/2.7.3/#id6">http://www.python.org/download/releases/2.7.3/#id6</a> > that sends you to <<a href="http://www.python.org/download/mac/tcltk">http://www.python.org/download/mac/tcltk</a>> which is another page full of tables, warnings,etc that leads you to the Apple 8.5.9 section <<a href="http://www.python.org/download/mac/tcltk/#apple-8-5-9">http://www.python.org/download/mac/tcltk/#apple-8-5-9</a>> which is a dead-end because there are still known issues with 8.5.9, leaving you with the ActiveTCL section <<a href="http://www.python.org/download/mac/tcltk/#activetcl-8-5-12">http://www.python.org/download/mac/tcltk/#activetcl-8-5-12</a>> which has a paragraph of text obscuring the link you actually needed: <a href="http://www.activestate.com/activetcl/downloads">http://www.activestate.com/activetcl/downloads</a> .</div><div><br></div><div>I applaud that some effort was made to document a solution; however, in practice the daisy chain of footnotes, tables, and links has proven unworkable for most of the engineers I've been working with.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Raymond</div><div><br></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Python-Dev mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:Python-Dev@python.org">Python-Dev@python.org</a></span><br><span><a href="http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev">http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev</a></span><br><span>Unsubscribe: <a href="http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/jnoller%40gmail.com">http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/jnoller%40gmail.com</a></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>