<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><br><div><div>On Apr 14, 2014, at 4:39 PM, Guido van Rossum <<a href="mailto:guido@python.org">guido@python.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Donald Stufft <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:donald@stufft.io" target="_blank">donald@stufft.io</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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On Apr 14, 2014, at 3:53 PM, Terry Reedy <<a href="mailto:tjreedy@udel.edu">tjreedy@udel.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
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> On 4/14/2014 11:32 AM, Steve Dower wrote:<br>
[...]<br>
>> However unfair<br>
>> and incorrect it may be, there is a perception in some businesses<br>
>> that open-source projects do not want contributions from them.<br>
<br>
> For PSF/CPython, this is so untrue that it looks to me like an excuse to take without giving back. This might be 'unfair and incorrect', but it is my perception.<br>
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</div></div>As someone who *has* given back, I can certainly understand why someone would feel that way. It often times *does* feel like CPython doesn’t want contributions.<br>
</blockquote><div> <br></div><div>Donald, your remark in itself sounds unnecessarily (and unproductively!) passive-aggressive. What have we done wrong to you, and what can we do to avoid making the same mistake in the future (to you, and to others)?<br>
<br></div><div>[PS. When I appeared to write "Pylon brain fry" earlier in this thread, that was an unfortunate auto-correct for "PyCon brain fry". We need to get "PyCon" into the dictionary...]<br clear="all">
</div></div><br>-- <br>--Guido van Rossum (<a href="http://python.org/~guido">python.org/~guido</a>)
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</blockquote></div><br><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>Hmm, I’m sorry if I came across that way. I didn’t mean to. I do think contributing directly to CPython is often times off-putting to people (and given I know others who have privately expressed the same sentiment to me I don’t think I’m alone in that [1]). I only brought it up because I don’t think ignoring a problem (which maybe some disagree that there is a problem! but in my view there is so thus my comment) is a useful thing to do. Generally when I say something it’s because I’m trying to be helpful :) I’m sorry that my wording didn’t convey that appropriately.</div><div><br></div><div>Now I will admit I personally have probably had a harder time than some others because of the nature of the things I was trying to work on, and lately it’s gotten better (although I think that’s partially because I’m more known now, and I think in general the experience of contributing to CPython changes depending on who you are, so the more integrated into the culture you are, the less likely you are to see the issues and unfortunately those people are also the ones with the most power to change it). I do however think that just in general it might be getting better too? </div><div><br></div><div>Specific details are hard because it’s nothing major and obvious like having Linus go off on rants and tearing things apart, it’s death by a thousand cuts so it’s hard to point a finger at one behavior (or a few behaviors) and look at them in isolation and “see” it. That being said I’m more than happy to *try* and explain it, but right this moment I don’t have a lot of time as I’m getting ready to step out the door, but I didn’t want to leave this email hanging without a reply.</div><div><br></div><div>[1] See Also <a href="http://www.curiousefficiency.org/posts/2011/04/musings-on-culture-of-python-dev.html">http://www.curiousefficiency.org/posts/2011/04/musings-on-culture-of-python-dev.html</a></div><div>
<br>-----------------<br>Donald Stufft<br>PGP: 0x6E3CBCE93372DCFA // 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA
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