<br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Fri, Dec 22, 2017, 11:38 Chris Barker, <<a href="mailto:chris.barker@noaa.gov">chris.barker@noaa.gov</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 8:49 AM, Brett Cannon <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:brett@python.org" target="_blank">brett@python.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="m_-7625807583791829315HOEnZb"><div class="m_-7625807583791829315h5"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34)">I think it's worth reminding people that if they don't like the fact dataclasses (ab)use type hints for their succinct syntax that you can always use attrs instead to avoid type hints.</span></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div>sure -- but this doesn't really address the issue, the whole reason this is even a discussion is because dataclasses is going into the standard library. Third party packages can do whatever they want, of course.</div><div><br></div><div>And the concern is that people (in particular newbies) will get confused / the wrong impression / other-negative-response by the (semi) use of typing in a standard library module.</div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div><br></div><div>I'm still not worried. Type hints are part of the syntax and so are no worse off than async/await and asyncio IMO.</div><div><br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>As for those who feel dataclasses will force them to teach type hints and they simply don't want to, maybe we could help land protocols</div></blockquote><div><br></div></div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div>Could you please clarify what this is about ???</div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div><br></div><div>There's a PEP by Ivan (on my phone else I would look up the number).</div><div><br></div><div>-Brett</div><div><br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>But I think the key point I want to make is Guido chose dataclasses to support using the type hints syntax specifically over how attrs does things, so I don't see this thread trying to work around that going anywhere at this point since I haven't seen a solid alternative be proposed after all of this debating.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div>And the PEP has been approved.</div><div><br></div><div>So the actionable things are:</div><div><br></div><div>Writing good docs</div><div><br></div><div>Converging on a "recommended" way to do non-typed dataclass fields.</div><div><br></div><div>And that should be decided in order to write the docs, (and probably should be in the PEP).</div><div><br></div><div>-CHB</div></div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="m_-7625807583791829315gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><br>Christopher Barker, Ph.D.<br>Oceanographer<br><br>Emergency Response Division<br>NOAA/NOS/OR&R (206) 526-6959 voice<br><a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=7600+Sand+Point+Way+NE&entry=gmail&source=g">7600 Sand Point Way NE</a> (206) 526-6329 fax<br>Seattle, WA 98115 (206) 526-6317 main reception<br><br><a href="mailto:Chris.Barker@noaa.gov" target="_blank">Chris.Barker@noaa.gov</a></div>
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