<br><br>On Saturday, September 15, 2018, Jacqueline Kazil <<a href="mailto:jackiekazil@gmail.com">jackiekazil@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">I just got caught up on the thread. This is a really great discussion. Thank you for all the contributions. <div><br></div><div>Before we get into the details, let's go back to the main use case we are trying to solve.</div><div><b>As a user, I am writing an academic paper and I need to cite Python. </b></div><div><br></div><div>Let's throw reproducibility out the window for now (<--- something I never thought I would say), because that should be captured in the code, not in the citations. </div><div><br></div><div>So, if we don't need the specific version of Python, then maybe creating one citation is all we need. <br>And that gives it some good Google juice as well.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><a href="https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=python+van+Rossum">https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=python+van+Rossum</a> *<br></div><div><br></div><div><a href="https://www.semanticscholar.org/search?q=Python%20van%20Rossum">https://www.semanticscholar.org/search?q=Python%20van%20Rossum</a><br></div><div><br></div><div><a href="https://www.mendeley.com/research-papers/?query=Python+van+Rossum">https://www.mendeley.com/research-papers/?query=Python+van+Rossum</a><br></div><div><br></div><div><a href="https://www.zotero.org/search/q/Python/type/group">https://www.zotero.org/search/q/Python/type/group</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>With an e.g. {Zotero,} group, it would be easy to cite the Python citation with the greatest centrality.</div><div><a href="https://networkx.github.io/documentation/stable/reference/algorithms/centrality.html">https://networkx.github.io/documentation/stable/reference/algorithms/centrality.html</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>A DOI URN/URI/URL really is easiest to aggregate the edges of/for.</div><div><br></div><div>- [ ] Link to the new citation(s) page in the Python docs from the SciPy citing page</div><div><a href="https://www.scipy.org/citing.html">https://www.scipy.org/citing.html</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>NP. YW!</div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div>Thoughts? </div><div><br></div><div>(Once we nail down one or many, I think we can then move into the details of the content of the citation.)</div><div><br></div><div>-Jackie</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 12:47 AM Wes Turner <<a href="mailto:wes.turner@gmail.com" target="_blank">wes.turner@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">There was a thread about adding __cite__ to things and a tool to collect those citations awhile back.<div><br></div><div>"[Python-ideas] Add a __cite__ method for scientific packages"</div><div><a href="http://markmail.org/thread/rekmbmh64qxwcind" target="_blank">http://markmail.org/thread/<wbr>rekmbmh64qxwcind</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>Which CPython source file should contain this __cite__ value?</div><div><br></div><div>... On a related note, you should ask the list admin to append a URL to each mailing list message whenever this list is upgraded to mm3; so that you can all be appropriately cited.<br><br>On Thursday, September 13, 2018, Wes Turner <<a href="mailto:wes.turner@gmail.com" target="_blank">wes.turner@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Do you guys think we should all cite Grub and BusyBox and bash and libc and setuptools and pip and openssl and GNU/Linux and LXC and Docker; or else it's plagiarism for us all?<br><br>#OpenAccess<br><br>On Wednesday, September 12, 2018, Stephen J. Turnbull <<a href="mailto:turnbull.stephen.fw@u.tsukuba.ac.jp" target="_blank">turnbull.stephen.fw@u.<wbr>tsukuba.ac.jp</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Chris Barker via Python-Dev writes:<br>
<br>
> But "I wrote some code in Python to produce these statistics" --<br>
> does that need a citation?<br>
<br>
That depends on what you mean by "statistics" and whether (as one<br>
should) one makes the code available. If the code is published or<br>
"available on request", definitely, Python should be cited. If not,<br>
and by "statistics" you mean the kind of things provided by Steven<br>
d'Aprano's excellent statistics module (mean, median, standard<br>
deviation, etc), maybe no citation is needed. But anything more<br>
esoteric than that (even linear regression), yeah, I would say you<br>
should cite both Python and any reference you used to learn the<br>
algorithm or formulas, in the context of mentioning that your<br>
statistics are home-brew, not produced by one of the recognized<br>
applications for doing so.<br>
<br>
> If so, maybe that would take a different form.<br>
<br>
Yes, it would. But not so different: eg, version is analogous to<br>
edition when citing a book.<br>
<br>
> Anyway, hard to make this decision without some idea how the<br>
> citation is intended to be used.<br>
<br>
Same as any other citation, (1) to give credit to those responsible<br>
for providing a resource (this is why publishers and their metadata of<br>
city are still conventionally included), and (2) to show where that<br>
resource can be obtained. AFAICS, both motivations are universally<br>
applicable in polite society. NB: Replication is an important reason<br>
for wanting to acquire the resource, but it's not the only one.<br>
<br>
I think underlying your comment is the question of *what* resource is<br>
being cited. I can think of three offhand that might be characterized<br>
as "Python". First, the PSF, as a provider of funding. There is a<br>
conventional form for this: a footnote on the title or author's name<br>
saying "The author acknowledges [a] <purpose of grant such as travel><br>
grant [grant identifier if available] from the Python Software<br>
Foundation." I usually orally mention them in presentations, too.<br>
That one's easy; *everybody* should *always* do that.<br>
<br>
The rest of these, sort of an ideal to strive for. If you keep a<br>
bibliographic database, and there are now quite a few efforts to crowd<br>
source them, it's easier to go the whole 9 yards than to skimp. But<br>
except in cases where we don't need to even mention the code, probably<br>
we should be citing, for reasons of courtesy to readers as well as<br>
authors, editors, and publishers (as disgusting as many publishers are<br>
as members of society, they do play a role in providing many resources<br>
---we should find ways to compete them into good behavior, not<br>
ostracize them).<br>
<br>
The second is the Python *language and standard library*. Then the<br>
Language Reference and/or the Library Reference should be cited<br>
briefly when Python is first mentioned, and in the text introducing a<br>
program or program fragment, with a full citation in the bibliography.<br>
I tentatively suggest that the metadata for the Language Reference<br>
would be<br>
<br>
Author: principal author(s) (Guido?) et al. OR <a href="http://python.org" target="_blank">python.org</a> OR<br>
Python Contributors<br>
Title: The Python Language Reference<br>
Version: to match Python version used (if relevant, different<br>
versions each get full citations), probably should not be<br>
"current"<br>
Publisher: Python Software Foundation<br>
Date: of the relevant version<br>
Location: City of legal address of PSF<br>
URL: to version used (probably should not be the default)<br>
Date accessed: if "current" was used<br>
<br>
The Library reference would be the same except for Title.<br>
<br>
The third is a *particular implementation*. In that case the metadata<br>
would be<br>
<br>
Author: principal author(s) (Guido) et al. OR <a href="http://python.org" target="_blank">python.org</a> OR<br>
Python Contributors<br>
Title: The cPython Python distribution<br>
Python Version: as appropriate (if relevant, different versions each<br>
get full citations), never "current"<br>
Distributor Version: if different from Python version (eg, additional<br>
Debian cruft)<br>
Publisher: Distributor (eg, PSF, Debian Project, Anaconda Inc.)<br>
Date: of the relevant version<br>
Location: City of legal address of distributor<br>
<br>
If downloaded:<br>
<br>
URL: to version used (including git commit SHA1 if available)<br>
Date accessed: download from distributor, not installation date<br>
<br>
If received on physical medium: use the "usual" form of citation for a<br>
collection of individual works (even if Python was the only thing on<br>
it). Probably the only additional information needed would be the<br>
distributor as editor of the collection and the name of the<br>
collection.<br>
<br>
In most cases I can think of, if the implementation is cited, the<br>
Language and Library References should be cited, too.<br>
<br>
Finally, if Python or components were modified for the project, the<br>
modified version should be preserved in a repository and a VCS<br>
identifier provided. This does not imply the repository need be<br>
publicly accessible, of course, although it might be for other reasons<br>
(eg, in a GSoC project,wherever or if hosted for free on GitHub).<br>
<br>
I doubt that "URNs" like DOI and ISBN are applicable, but if available<br>
they should be included in all cases as well.<br>
<br>
Steve<br>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Jacqueline Kazil | @jackiekazil </div><div dir="ltr"><pre style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></pre></div></div></div></div></div>
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