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Sam wrote:
<blockquote
cite="midb1c02c610703051137p6f1e2692xae818351e8a3f44e@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">except blocks don't set up a new scope to me.
[...second code example deleted...]
says the same thing about the with statement to me.
</pre>
</blockquote>
(What version of Python are you using, a 2.6 build? In 2.5 release, a
file() is not a context manager, so 'with file() as f:' doesn't work.
And in py3k the "except E, N" syntax is gone.)<br>
<br>
First off, you are absolutely right, the "with" and "except" statements
do not open new scopes. I was wrong about that.<br>
<br>
But PEP 3110, "Catching Exceptions In Python:, describes "except E as
N" this way:<br>
<blockquote>
<pre class="literal-block">try:
try_body
except E as N:
except_body
...
</pre>
<p>gets translated to (in Python 2.5 terms)</p>
<pre class="literal-block">try:
try_body
except E, N:
try:
except_body
finally:
N = None
del N
...
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3110/">http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3110/</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
So the intent for "except E as N" is that N does *not* outlive the
"except" block. And indeed that's what happens in my month-old Py3k.<br>
<br>
Also, in your example "with file(...) as f:", outside the "with" block
"f" evaluated as "<closed file 'C:/foo.txt', mode 'r' at
0x00B98800>". The file was closed because "with file(...) as f:"
wasn't simply assigning the result of the "with" expression to f; it
assigns to f the result of calling __enter__() on the with with
expression's result. It seems that post-Python 2.5 file.__enter__()
returns the file. This isn't a bad thing, but it's a little misleading
as "with A as X" doesn't usually wind up with X containing the "result"
of A.<br>
<br>
So I can state: in Py3k, in both cases of "except E as N" and "with E
as N", after the nested block has exited, N does not contain the direct
result of E.<br>
<br>
<br>
I guess I'm starting to disagree with sprinkling "as" into the syntax
as the defacto inline assignment operator. Quoting from PEP 343:<br>
<blockquote>
<pre>So now the final hurdle was that the <a
href="http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0310">PEP 310</a> syntax:
with VAR = EXPR:
BLOCK1
would be deceptive, since VAR does *not* receive the value of
EXPR. Borrowing from <a href="http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0340">PEP 340</a>, it was an easy step to:
with EXPR as VAR:
BLOCK1
</pre>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0343/">http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0343/</a><br>
</blockquote>
Clearly the original intent with "as" was that it was specifically
*not* direct assignment. Python added a *new keyword*, specifically
because this was not direct inline assignment. So I assert a Python
programmer should not see "as" and think "= with the two sides swapped".<br>
<br>
<br>
For my final trick, I will attempt to channel Guido. (Which is spooky,
as he hasn't even Crossed Over To The Other Side.) Python was
originally written in C, the poster child for inline assignment
operators, so he was obviously familiar with the syntactic construct.
But Python does *not* support inline assignment everywhere. AFAIK it
specifically has supports for it in one place: allowing multiple
assignments at once. This works:<br>
<blockquote>a = b = file(...)<br>
</blockquote>
But this does not:<br>
<blockquote>if a = expression:<br>
# hooray, expression worked<br>
else:<br>
# boo, expression failed<br>
</blockquote>
Since nobody likes to type, I'm sure people have requested inline
assignment zillions of times before. Since Python does not support it,
I'm guessing Guido doesn't want it for some reason. Perhaps it's to
save programmers from the inevitable heartache of typing "if a = x"
when they meant "if a == x" (or vice-versa); if so then that's a little
surprising, considering the "consenting adults" design tenet, but at
least "if E as N" would not have that problem. If there was some other
reason, then I bet "if E as N" doesn't address it.<br>
<br>
Knock three times,<br>
<br>
<br>
<i>larry</i><br>
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