<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 5:50 PM, Nick Coghlan <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ncoghlan@gmail.com" target="_blank">ncoghlan@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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On 9 Jan 2014 22:03, "Giampaolo Rodola'" <<a href="mailto:g.rodola@gmail.com" target="_blank">g.rodola@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
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> On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 12:16 PM, Nick Coghlan <<a href="mailto:ncoghlan@gmail.com" target="_blank">ncoghlan@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
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>> On 9 Jan 2014 09:49, "Amber Yust" <<a href="mailto:amber.yust@gmail.com" target="_blank">amber.yust@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
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>> > Also note that even if publicly visible projects are outnumbered by private projects, the public projects tend to have a much larger impact on the overall ecosystem, because they're used by many entities (whereas private projects are typically only used by a single entity given their nature).<br>
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>> It also mistakenly assumes our goal is to get existing *applications* to migrate. It really isn't - we're obviously delighted if app developers choose to switch (as it indicates we have created a compelling platform), but we *needed* key library and framework developers to add Python 3 support in order to bootstrap the Python 3 development ecosystem.<br>
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> True.<br>
> I think one of the key points here is that different important libs haven't been ported yet:<br>
> <a href="https://python3wos.appspot.com/" target="_blank">https://python3wos.appspot.com/</a> <br>
> Too many of them are still marked red and IMO that is the main reason why a lot of people are being so hesitant, not unicode.<br>
> "boto" alone counts as hundreds of thousands potential users which simply cannot migrate.<br>
> Django made the transition only a couple of months ago, which basically means it's still in a beta state, and AFAIK fundamental projects such as Twisted don't even have an ETA.<br>
> Considering 5 years have passed since Python 3.0 first made it's appearance I consider this a *serious* delay.<br>
> From a user standpoint this sort of appears as a signal which translates into "if neither big project X has migrated after 5 years why should I?".<br>
> That's likely to apply even if project X is not within the list of your dependencies, because you may not depend from X now but maybe you will in the future, either because you need X or because Y requires X in order to work. It is *crucial* for people maintaining those libraries to put Python 3 porting on top of their TODO list at the cost of not working on new features.</p>
</div></div><p dir="ltr">This is still focusing on migrating *existing* applications. </p></blockquote><div>I was talking about existing third party libraries (Twisted, gevent, lxml etc), not user applications.</div><div>
In order to port user applications you need those libraries to be ported first, and it is crucial that at least the most used ones are ported.</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<p dir="ltr">A user that starts with Python 3 simply wouldn't consider a dependency like boto as an option</p></blockquote><div>Why not? Note that I picked "boto" just because it's the first in that list. </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><p dir="ltr"> and would reach for asyncio rather than Twisted for their explicit asynchronous programming needs.</p>
</blockquote><div>I would't be so sure about that. We're talking about two very mature and established projects, with tons of third-party components (see <a href="https://github.com/facebook/tornado/wiki/Links">https://github.com/facebook/tornado/wiki/Links</a>), each solving a common set of problems in their own way, which will likely continue to be used independently from asyncio (which is still in a beta state) for quite a while.</div>
<div><br></div><div> <br></div><div>--- Giampaolo </div><div><a href="https://code.google.com/p/psutil/" target="_blank">https://code.google.com/p/psutil/</a></div><div><a href="https://code.google.com/p/pyftpdlib/" target="_blank">https://code.google.com/p/pyftpdlib/</a></div>
<div><a href="https://code.google.com/p/pysendfile/" target="_blank">https://code.google.com/p/pysendfile/</a></div></div><br></div></div>