<div dir="ltr"><div class="markdown-here-wrapper" style=""><blockquote style="margin:1.2em 0px;border-left-width:4px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(221,221,221);padding:0px 1em;color:rgb(119,119,119);quotes:none">
<p style="margin:0px 0px 1.2em!important">Two big problems with moving primary discussions off the mailing list are discoverablility and community fracture.</p>
</blockquote>
<p style="margin:0px 0px 1.2em!important">Agreed, though consider: Community fracture is a always risk when changing the discussion medium. On balance, we have to consider whether the risk is outweighed by the benefits of a new medium.</p>
<p style="margin:0px 0px 1.2em!important">As for discoverability, let me make a brief case for why Discourse is head and shoulders above mailing lists.</p>
<p style="margin:0px 0px 1.2em!important">Among <a href="http://www.discourse.org/about/">many well-designed features</a>, Discourse has the following things going for it in the discoverability department:</p>
<ul style="margin:1.2em 0px;padding-left:2em">
<li style="margin:0.5em 0px">You can mention people by @name from posts and they’ll get notified, like on GitHub. No need to wonder if people will miss something because they haven’t setup their email filters correctly.</li>
<li style="margin:0.5em 0px">We can unify the various lists under a single forum and separate discussions with categories. This would hopefully lend better to cross-pollination of discussions across different categories (e.g. ideas vs. dev), while still letting people narrow their focus to a single category if that’s what they want. For examples of how categories can be used, see <a href="https://meta.discourse.org/">Discourse Meta</a> and <a href="https://forums.docker.com/c/open-source-projects">this category on the Docker forum</a>.</li>
<li style="margin:0.5em 0px">People starting new posts on Discourse automatically get shown potentially related discussions, similar to what Stack Overflow does. It makes it much harder to miss or forget to look for prior discussions before starting a new one. Naturally, generalized search is also a first-class feature.</li>
<li style="margin:0.5em 0px">Regarding the potential proliferation of logins, Discourse <a href="https://meta.discourse.org/t/official-single-sign-on-for-discourse/13045">supports single sign-on</a>, so if we want we can let people login with Google, GitHub, or perhaps even a Python-owned identity provider.</li>
</ul>
<p style="margin:0px 0px 1.2em!important">These features (and <a href="http://www.discourse.org/about/">others</a>) are really well-executed, as you would expect coming from Jeff Atwood and others who left Stack Overflow to create Discourse.</p>
<p style="margin:0px 0px 1.2em!important">Finally, as a web-based forum, Discourse takes the burden off of users having to each independently come up with a toolchain that makes things manageable for them. Solutions to common problems like notification, finding prior discussions, and so forth, are implemented centrally, and all users automatically benefit. It’s really hard to offer that with a mailing list.</p>
<p style="margin:0px 0px 1.2em!important">And to top it all off, if for whatever reason you hate web forums, Discourse has a “mailing list mode” which lets you respond to and start discussions entirely via email, without affecting the web-based forum.</p>
<p style="margin:0px 0px 1.2em!important">Nick</p>
<div title="MDH:Jmd0O8KgVHdvIGJpZyBwcm9ibGVtcyB3aXRoIG1vdmluZyBwcmltYXJ5IGRpc2N1c3Npb25zIG9m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" style="height:0;width:0;max-height:0;max-width:0;overflow:hidden;font-size:0em;padding:0;margin:0">​</div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 4:22 PM Donald Stufft <<a href="mailto:donald@stufft.io">donald@stufft.io</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
> On Jan 30, 2016, at 4:17 PM, Barry Warsaw <<a href="mailto:barry@python.org" target="_blank">barry@python.org</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Any new forum will mean another login, a new work flow, another slice of the<br>
> ever diminishing attention pie, and discussions that occur both on the<br>
> traditional site and the new site.  Some people will miss the big announcement<br>
> about the new forum.  There will be lots of cross-posting because people won't<br>
> know for sure which ones the people who need to be involved frequent.<br>
<br>
<br>
For what it’s worth, another thing I want to do is setup <a href="http://id.python.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">id.python.org</a> and<br>
consolidate all the logins :)<br>
<br>
-----------------<br>
Donald Stufft<br>
PGP: 0x6E3CBCE93372DCFA // 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Python-ideas mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Python-ideas@python.org" target="_blank">Python-ideas@python.org</a><br>
<a href="https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas</a><br>
Code of Conduct: <a href="http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/</a></blockquote></div>