<br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Tue, Nov 14, 2017, 04:06 Stephan Houben, <<a href="mailto:stephanh42@gmail.com">stephanh42@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div>Hi Brett,<br><br></div>The current documentation *cannot* be fixed, since<br></div>fixing it would entail adding an initial two-page essay<br></div>on "how to start Python on various platforms/systems"<br></div>(it is really NOT as simple as Windows=python, Linux=python3)<br></div>and such a PR will certainly by rejected.<br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div><br></div><div>It doesn't have to be in the venv' docs. Such a page could be a HOWTO or in the tutorial (if it isn't already there).</div><div><br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><br></div>In my opinion, the only alternatives are</div><div><br></div><div>1. either harmonize the invocation of python across platforms <br> (and *then* adapt the docs to follow).</div><div> Which was pretty much the whole topic of this thread so far.<br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div><br></div><div>The idea has been discussed of developing a 'py' command fo all OSs like on Windows, but has never gone beyond just a discussion.</div><div><br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div></div></div><br></div><div>2. or just use "python" consistently across all docs<br></div> (since that is the *only* command which is at least consistent among<br></div> <a href="http://python.org" target="_blank">python.org</a> installers), and add weasel-wording to "consult documentation<br></div> of third-party installers"<br></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div><br></div><div>While 'python' is 'python2' on operating systems that won't really work out well. Best you could do is 'python3'.</div><div><br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div><br></div>3. or leave the docs broken for at least some people some of the time.<br></div></div></blockquote></div><div><br></div><div>I'm eyeing the removal of pyvenv come February when we fork for 3.8 development so I'm personally not planning to try and clarify anything (obviously others can make an attempt).</div><div><br></div><div>-brett</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div></div><div dir="ltr">Stephan<br><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2017-11-14 2:31 GMT+01:00 Brett Cannon <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:brett@python.org" target="_blank">brett@python.org</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Mon, Nov 13, 2017, 00:01 Stephan Houben, <<a href="mailto:stephanh42@gmail.com" target="_blank">stephanh42@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Hi all,<br><div><br></div><div>Related to this text on <a href="https://docs.python.org/3/library/venv.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://docs.python.org/3/library/venv.html</a> :</div><div><br></div><div>============</div></div><div dir="ltr"><div><br> Note<br>
The pyvenv script has been deprecated as of Python 3.6 in favor of<br>
using python3 -m venv to help prevent any potential confusion as to<br>
which Python interpreter a virtual environment will be based on.</div></div><div dir="ltr"><div><div class="gmail_extra">============</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">It's clearer than the text below to which I originally referred.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">However, this text has also problems in that it is too unix-specific.</div><div class="gmail_extra">In particular:</div><div class="gmail_extra">* Most seriously, it refers to "python3" which doesn't work with the <a href="http://python.org" target="_blank">python.org</a> Windows installer.</div></div></div></blockquote></div><div><br></div></span><div>It can, but it's opt-in. It's just one of those things that's easy to forget.</div><span><div><br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div class="gmail_extra">* Less seriously, it refers to "pyenv" as a "script" which is unix jargon and moreover technically</div><div class="gmail_extra"> incorrect on Windows. (Also, needlessly specific, it should just be "the pyenv command", <br></div><div class="gmail_extra"> how it is implemented is irrelevant for this section).</div></div></div></blockquote></div><div><br></div></span><div>I disagree with this as Python refers to .Py files that you execute directly as "scripts", so I don't think this requires clarification.</div><div><br></div><div class="gmail_quote"></div><div><br></div><div>Anyway, a pull request with suggested wording to address your concerns would be the best way to try and rectify the issue.</div><span class="m_-4633008765197998991HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div><br></div><div>-brett</div></font></span><div class="m_-4633008765197998991HOEnZb"><div class="m_-4633008765197998991h5"><div><br></div><div><br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">Stephan<br></div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2017-11-13 0:32 GMT+01:00 Chris Angelico <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rosuav@gmail.com" target="_blank">rosuav@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="m_-4633008765197998991m_6264977697082862744m_-5165087722617025874gmail-HOEnZb"><div class="m_-4633008765197998991m_6264977697082862744m_-5165087722617025874gmail-h5">On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:29 AM, Nick Coghlan <<a href="mailto:ncoghlan@gmail.com" target="_blank">ncoghlan@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> On 13 November 2017 at 07:11, Chris Angelico <<a href="mailto:rosuav@gmail.com" target="_blank">rosuav@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 6:24 AM, Stephan Houben <<a href="mailto:stephanh42@gmail.com" target="_blank">stephanh42@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>> Hi Antoine,<br>
>>><br>
>>> The venv module is included,<br>
>>> however the pyvenv script is in a separate package<br>
>>> python3.5-venv .<br>
>>><br>
>>> By the way, I was totally confused by the following text form the doc.<br>
>>><br>
>>> <a href="https://docs.python.org/3/library/venv.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://docs.python.org/3/library/venv.html</a><br>
>>><br>
>>> ========<br>
>>> Deprecated since version 3.6: pyvenv was the recommended tool for creating<br>
>>> virtual environments for Python 3.3 and 3.4, and is deprecated in Python<br>
>>> 3.6.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Changed in version 3.5: The use of venv is now recommended for creating<br>
>>> virtual environments.<br>
>>><br>
>>> ========<br>
>><br>
>> Not sure where you're reading that. I'm seeing:<br>
>><br>
>> """<br>
>> Note<br>
>> The pyvenv script has been deprecated as of Python 3.6 in favor of<br>
>> using python3 -m venv to help prevent any potential confusion as to<br>
>> which Python interpreter a virtual environment will be based on.<br>
>> """<br>
>><br>
>> I think that's pretty clear. "python3 -m venv env" is the standard and<br>
>> recommended way to spin up a virtual environment.<br>
><br>
> It's further down in the page, under<br>
> <a href="https://docs.python.org/3/library/venv.html#creating-virtual-environments" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://docs.python.org/3/library/venv.html#creating-virtual-environments</a><br>
><br>
> I think the deprecation notice for pyvenv should just be deleted,<br>
> since it renders like the *module* is deprecated.<br>
<br>
</div></div>Ah, I see it now, thanks.<br>
<br>
Agreed; or maybe downgrade it to a parenthetical comment. Focus on<br>
"this is how to do the obvious thing", and only as an afterthought<br>
mention "it used to be done differently" in case someone greps for<br>
pyvenv.<br>
<br>
ChrisA<br>
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