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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hi Brett,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Sorry about that, I did not mean to be rude.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">What I wanted to says is:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">That I relied on such a feature<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Other people on this mailing-list already asked something similar at several occasions<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">3.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">HEAPTYPE would not always be a solution<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">4.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Then I thought this was something that would indeed need more discussion and might get acceptance if discussed once again.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Eloi<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Brett Cannon <brett@python.org>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 26, 2018 8:53 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Eloi Gaudry <Eloi.Gaudry@fft.be><br>
<b>Cc:</b> encukou@gmail.com; python-ideas@python.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Python-ideas] Allow mutable builtin types (optionally)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Jun 21, 2018, 12:27 Eloi Gaudry, <<a href="mailto:Eloi.Gaudry@fft.be">Eloi.Gaudry@fft.be</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">This request didn't have a lot of traction, but I still consider this is something that would need to be supported<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Please be careful about using the word "need" as it comes off as demanding instead of as a suggestion.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-Brett<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">(2 lines of code to be changed; no regression so far with python 2 and python 3).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">My main points are:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">- HEAP_TYPE is not really used (as anyone being using it ?)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">- HEAP_TYPE serves other purposes <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">- extension would benefit for allowing direct access to any of its type attributes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Petr, what do you think ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Eloi<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> Python-ideas <python-ideas-bounces+eloi.gaudry=<a href="mailto:fft.be@python.org" target="_blank">fft.be@python.org</a>>
on behalf of Eloi Gaudry <<a href="mailto:Eloi.Gaudry@fft.be" target="_blank">Eloi.Gaudry@fft.be</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 8, 2018 9:26:47 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:encukou@gmail.com" target="_blank">encukou@gmail.com</a>;
<a href="mailto:python-ideas@python.org" target="_blank">python-ideas@python.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Python-ideas] Allow mutable builtin types (optionally)</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">On Mon, 2018-05-07 at 15:23 -0400, Petr Viktorin wrote:<br>
> On 05/07/18 11:37, Eloi Gaudry wrote:<br>
> > I mean, to my knowledge, there is no reason why a type should be<br>
> > allocated on the heap (<a href="https://docs.python.org/2/c-api/typeobj.html" target="_blank">https://docs.python.org/2/c-api/typeobj.html</a><br>
> > ) to<br>
> > be able to change its attributes at Python level.<br>
> <br>
> One reason is sub-interpreter support: you can have multiple <br>
> interpreters per process, and those shouldn't influence each other.<br>
> (see <a href="https://docs.python.org/3/c-api/init.html#sub-interpreter-suppor" target="_blank">
https://docs.python.org/3/c-api/init.html#sub-interpreter-suppor</a><br>
> t)<br>
> <br>
> With heap types, each sub-interpreter can have its own copy of the<br>
> type <br>
> object. But with builtins, changes done in one interpreter would be <br>
> visible in all the others.<br>
<br>
Yes, this could be a reason, but if you don't rely on such a feature<br>
neither implicitly nor explicitly ?<br>
<br>
I mean, our types are built-in and should be considered as immutable<br>
across interpreters. And we (as most users I guess) are only running<br>
one interpreter.<br>
<br>
In case several intepreters are used, it would make sense to have a<br>
non-heap type that would be seen as a singleton across all of them, no<br>
?<br>
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