Finding the instance reference of an object
fuzzyman at gmail.com
Thu Oct 30 12:59:11 CET 2008
On Oct 30, 1:13 am, Joe Strout <j... at strout.net> wrote:
> On Oct 29, 2008, at 4:52 PM, Fuzzyman wrote:
> > You're pretty straightforwardly wrong. In Python the 'value' of a
> > variable is not the reference itself.
> That's the misconception that is leading some folks around here into
> tangled nots of twisty mislogic, ultimately causing them to make up
> new terms for what every other modern language is perfectly happy
> calling Call-By-Value.
> I've thought a lot about why this misconception is so widespread here,
> and I think it must be one of the following:
> 1. There was one community leader with this idea, who has been
> successful at promoting it widely, much to the detriment of all; or,
> 2. Because everything in Python is an object, you're not forced to
> think clearly (and more generally) about references as values as you
> are in languages (such as Java, VB.NET, etc.) which have both simple
> types and object types.
But those languages clearly make the distinction between values and
references that you refuse to make! Go figure...
> Either way, it's wrong (or at least, a needlessly complicated way of
> looking at things).
> > .NET does draw a distinction between 'value types' and reference types
> > - where using reference types are called by reference (the reference
> > is passed) and value types are called by value (the value itself is
> > copied).
> Quite right. Now, note that "ByRef" and "ByVal" apply to both.
> Generalize to Python. There you go.
> - Joe
> P.S. I really am trying to quit responding to this thread. Sometimes
> the urge is too strong. But I'll keep trying!
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