On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 4:16 AM, ant <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:shimbo@uklinux.net">shimbo@uklinux.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
We are talking about the thing that the rest of the world sees as<br>
Python's biggest missing piece</blockquote><div><br></div><div>Citation needed, or its just hyperbole. </div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
- the thing that<br>
beginning programmers look for and don't find - a decent, well-<br>
supported and elegant GUI.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Doesn't exist anywhere, in any platform, in any language, in any environment. The only ones who ever got even slightly close where proprietary -- Delphi was about the best elegant and simple (and yet, comprehensive) UI platform I think. Mac's actually have a lot of promise in UI design and integration, but then the poor newbie has to learn Objective-C :)</div>
<div><br></div><div>And of course, Visual Studio. You keep saying Visual Basic: meh. These days, its .NET that's the platform there, not Visual Basic. Or Visual C++. </div><div><br></div><div>Given ten years of work, and you might be able to get a system that fulfills your requirements. I doubt it. You'll need a pretty significant budget, or, a LOT of VERY motivated volunteers.</div>
<div><br></div><div>And that's sort of the point-- what you're not getting from this thread: its not that most people fall under your paraphrased POV's of 1-4.</div><div><br></div><div>Its that most people fall under, "meh, I don't really care in the end. I got an opinion, but I don't really care."</div>
<div><br></div><div>I'm content with the status quo. </div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">And who are the beginning programmers going to turn into?</blockquote>
<div><br></div><div>They'll turn to the same things we do. And have a learning curve: ALL gui programming is fundamentally slightly painful when you first start it, its just a fact of life. You suddenly have to start thinking in a different way. Especially if you want your GUI to actually not-suck, to be cross-platform, and to be able to grow into an advanced and capable GUI in the future.</div>
<div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
So, to summarise the summary: I reiterate my call. Somebody has to get<br>
Tkinter out of the distribution and replaced<br>
by something that - as a minimum - doesn't get slagged off by nearly<br>
everyone.<br>
<br>
It can't be me - I don't have the clout.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Nobody has the clout. </div><div><br></div><div>Guido may have had the clout to remove tkinter in Python 3.0: that didn't happen, so maybe in a decade for Python 4k you can propose it again.</div>
<div> </div><div>But not even Guido has the clout to see a 'decent replacement' gets made.</div><div><br></div><div>There is too little motivation. Too few serious and capable people are interested in the entire idea. Not because they are 'invested' in an existing platform: but because either they don't do GUI programming at all (this is NOT that significant of a minority), or because they need a -complete- and fully-functional GUI (which is a HUGE massive project and debatably can't be done right-- and which PyQT and wxPython fulfill at least sorta okay enough for them), or because Tkinter really is good enough for them or they like it.</div>
<div><br></div><div>You have one thread in a mailing list and from it you're interpreting, "Everyone hates it". Its simply not true. A lot of people actually use it. And are quite satisfied with it. It has a 'quick and dirty' quality which makes it useless for me-- I need polish-- but for some uses, its entirely suitable.</div>
<div><br></div><div>There is a level of "Reality, meet tkinter-replacement-wanting-people" that seriously needs to happen.</div><div><br></div><div>--S</div></div>