<p dir="ltr">I agree with the scrapheap challenge style. One expert per team ensures things will actually happen and having someone overview the coding would ensure a better environment for new and (let's be honest) *other* people who don't feel they're at the 'right' level.</p>
<p dir="ltr">I have to admit that I didn't feel comfortable coding initially.</p>
<p dir="ltr">The idea of grading people by numbers is good but perhaps some more questions could be posed to determine this. Or better yet an acceptance of volunteers for mentor duty. Though I can guess who would end up in doing that.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Hopefully the above makes some sense.<br></p>
<p dir="ltr">Mark Egan-Fuller<br>
Sent from my mobile, apologies in advance for any typos.</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 12 Jul 2013 20:58, <<a href="mailto:python-uk-request@python.org">python-uk-request@python.org</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<br>Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: The London Python Dojo is this Thursday (Tim Golden)<br>
2. Re: The London Python Dojo is this Thursday (<a href="mailto:a.grandi@gmail.com">a.grandi@gmail.com</a>)<br>
3. Re: The London Python Dojo is this Thursday (Tim Golden)<br>
4. Re: The London Python Dojo is this Thursday (Javier Llopis)<br>
5. Re: The London Python Dojo is this Thursday (Alistair Broomhead)<br>
6. Re: The London Python Dojo is this Thursday (xtian)<br>
<br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Tim Golden <<a href="mailto:mail@timgolden.me.uk">mail@timgolden.me.uk</a>><br>To: UK Python Users <<a href="mailto:python-uk@python.org">python-uk@python.org</a>><br>
Cc: <br>Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2013 12:46:19 +0100<br>Subject: Re: [python-uk] The London Python Dojo is this Thursday<br>Trying to summarise a bit. Hope I haven't misrepresented anyone.<br>
<br>
[<a href="mailto:a.grandi@gmail.com">a.grandi@gmail.com</a>]<br>
Feeling left out as a newbie; proposing different levels of coding<br>
challenge / team group. Suggesting that less experienced coders might<br>
stay away.<br>
<br>
[<a href="mailto:stestagg@gmail.com">stestagg@gmail.com</a>]<br>
Suggesting a change-now bell or hooter or whatever [similar in fact to<br>
the 5-minute Dojo style we started with way back when, but still with teams]<br>
<br>
[Michael Grazebrook]<br>
Suggesting streaming teams but giving each one a mentor who would coach<br>
but not code. (+1 from <a href="mailto:a.grandi@gmail.com">a.grandi@gmail.com</a>)<br>
<br>
<br>
None of these ideas are unreasonable. We're taking a break for the<br>
summer now, but it makes sense for the Dojo team to get together before<br>
September (which we probably would have done, anyway) to look at<br>
possible changes to the format, either overall or for specific evenings.<br>
<br>
Obviously, bring on more ideas & responses. Ultimately, we won't be able<br>
to please all the people all of the time. But we certainly want to<br>
understand what we could improve.<br>
<br>
TJG<br>
<br>
<br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: "<a href="mailto:a.grandi@gmail.com">a.grandi@gmail.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:a.grandi@gmail.com">a.grandi@gmail.com</a>><br>To: UK Python Users <<a href="mailto:python-uk@python.org">python-uk@python.org</a>><br>
Cc: <br>Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2013 12:52:41 +0100<br>Subject: Re: [python-uk] The London Python Dojo is this Thursday<br>Now you got it correctly :)<br>
<br>
Let's wait also for opposite opinions.<br>
We need to understand if there are opposite opinions and what are<br>
their resons, so we can maybe find a common agreement.<br>
<br>
Regards :)<br>
<br>
p.s: no other Dojos until September? Nooooo, please let's catchup for<br>
a beer sometimes at least :)<br>
<br>
On 12 July 2013 12:46, Tim Golden <<a href="mailto:mail@timgolden.me.uk">mail@timgolden.me.uk</a>> wrote:<br>
> Trying to summarise a bit. Hope I haven't misrepresented anyone.<br>
><br>
> [<a href="mailto:a.grandi@gmail.com">a.grandi@gmail.com</a>]<br>
> Feeling left out as a newbie; proposing different levels of coding<br>
> challenge / team group. Suggesting that less experienced coders might<br>
> stay away.<br>
><br>
> [<a href="mailto:stestagg@gmail.com">stestagg@gmail.com</a>]<br>
> Suggesting a change-now bell or hooter or whatever [similar in fact to<br>
> the 5-minute Dojo style we started with way back when, but still with teams]<br>
><br>
> [Michael Grazebrook]<br>
> Suggesting streaming teams but giving each one a mentor who would coach<br>
> but not code. (+1 from <a href="mailto:a.grandi@gmail.com">a.grandi@gmail.com</a>)<br>
><br>
><br>
> None of these ideas are unreasonable. We're taking a break for the<br>
> summer now, but it makes sense for the Dojo team to get together before<br>
> September (which we probably would have done, anyway) to look at<br>
> possible changes to the format, either overall or for specific evenings.<br>
><br>
> Obviously, bring on more ideas & responses. Ultimately, we won't be able<br>
> to please all the people all of the time. But we certainly want to<br>
> understand what we could improve.<br>
><br>
> TJG<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> python-uk mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:python-uk@python.org">python-uk@python.org</a><br>
> <a href="http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk" target="_blank">http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Andrea Grandi - Software Engineer / Qt Ambassador / Nokia Developer Champion<br>
Ubuntu Member: <a href="https://launchpad.net/~andreagrandi" target="_blank">https://launchpad.net/~andreagrandi</a><br>
website: <a href="http://www.andreagrandi.it" target="_blank">http://www.andreagrandi.it</a><br>
<br>
<br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Tim Golden <<a href="mailto:mail@timgolden.me.uk">mail@timgolden.me.uk</a>><br>To: UK Python Users <<a href="mailto:python-uk@python.org">python-uk@python.org</a>><br>
Cc: <br>Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2013 13:03:56 +0100<br>Subject: Re: [python-uk] The London Python Dojo is this Thursday<br>On 12/07/2013 12:18, <a href="mailto:a.grandi@gmail.com">a.grandi@gmail.com</a> wrote:<br>
> If I'm in a team where other people are way more expert than me, I<br>
> will never want to take the keyboard and start coding something.<br>
> I think they would be bored by my slowness and by my level. My slow<br>
> speed in coding could affect also the whole result (considering also<br>
> that we have a stric time to respect)<br>
<br>
Hmmm. Perhaps there's a perception issue here. Speaking for myself, but<br>
-- I believe -- channelling the other organisers, I would say that we're<br>
far more interested in people having a go than in what the team's<br>
finished product is like. Again: a lot depends on who's in your team.<br>
<br>
Certainly I have no problem with watching someone code slowly and trying<br>
to get a hold of what's going on, maybe learning a bit. Likewise I have<br>
no problem with someone choosing to observe rather than code in the hope<br>
of seeing how other (perhaps more experienced) people do things.<br>
<br>
I would guess that, for any given Dojo, at least one and sometimes two<br>
teams don't actually produce a finished product, but it's always fun to<br>
see where they've gone and what they tried and what doesn't work. (And<br>
there's always the excitement of a live debugging session when they<br>
suddenly spot the issue and try to fix it in situ).<br>
<br>
<br>
> Another person could simply say: mmm... interesting but... not for my<br>
> level. And stop coming. Do you really want this?<br>
<br>
When all's said and done, if someone doesn't think it's for them, then<br>
it's not for them. We can try to be as accommodating as possible, but<br>
you can't please all the people all the time.<br>
<br>
<br>
TJG<br>
<br>
<br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: "Javier Llopis" <<a href="mailto:javier@correo.com">javier@correo.com</a>><br>To: "UK Python Users" <<a href="mailto:python-uk@python.org">python-uk@python.org</a>><br>
Cc: <br>Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2013 14:12:40 +0100<br>Subject: Re: [python-uk] The London Python Dojo is this Thursday<br><br>
>> Another person could simply say: mmm... interesting but... not for my<br>
>> level. And stop coming. Do you really want this?<br>
><br>
> When all's said and done, if someone doesn't think it's for them, then<br>
> it's not for them. We can try to be as accommodating as possible, but<br>
> you can't please all the people all the time.<br>
><br>
<br>
...And in this case, I would rather try to keep the expert coders in<br>
instead of the newbies. Better be challenged than bored.<br>
<br>
Just my 2p<br>
<br>
J<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Alistair Broomhead <<a href="mailto:alistair.broomhead@gmail.com">alistair.broomhead@gmail.com</a>><br>To: UK Python Users <<a href="mailto:python-uk@python.org">python-uk@python.org</a>><br>
Cc: <br>Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2013 14:31:43 +0100<br>Subject: Re: [python-uk] The London Python Dojo is this Thursday<br><p dir="ltr">Something that may may not work (I guess it would take a fair amount of organisation) once a challenge has been picked, we ask people to volunteer as team leaders, they get a git repo set up and write tests, but their main role is to advise their team and give them a nudge on things which are stopping them from progressing. This would mean that each team has an 'expert', but I guess it would also mean people who were willing to take this role would have to bring a laptop off their own -an issue for me as I don't own one...</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 12 Jul 2013 14:19, "Javier Llopis" <<a href="mailto:javier@correo.com" target="_blank">javier@correo.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
>> Another person could simply say: mmm... interesting but... not for my<br>
>> level. And stop coming. Do you really want this?<br>
><br>
> When all's said and done, if someone doesn't think it's for them, then<br>
> it's not for them. We can try to be as accommodating as possible, but<br>
> you can't please all the people all the time.<br>
><br>
<br>
...And in this case, I would rather try to keep the expert coders in<br>
instead of the newbies. Better be challenged than bored.<br>
<br>
Just my 2p<br>
<br>
J<br>
<br>
<br>
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</blockquote></div>
<br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: xtian <<a href="mailto:xtian@babbageclunk.com">xtian@babbageclunk.com</a>><br>To: UK Python Users <<a href="mailto:python-uk@python.org">python-uk@python.org</a>><br>
Cc: UK Python Users <<a href="mailto:python-uk@python.org">python-uk@python.org</a>><br>Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2013 20:53:14 +0100<br>Subject: Re: [python-uk] The London Python Dojo is this Thursday<br><div dir="auto"><div>
I like the sound of this - Scrapheap Challenge style. You're right, it would take a bit more organisation though.</div><div><br>On 12 Jul 2013, at 14:31, Alistair Broomhead <<a href="mailto:alistair.broomhead@gmail.com" target="_blank">alistair.broomhead@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><p dir="ltr">Something that may may not work (I guess it would take a fair amount of organisation) once a challenge has been picked, we ask people to volunteer as team leaders, they get a git repo set up and write tests, but their main role is to advise their team and give them a nudge on things which are stopping them from progressing. This would mean that each team has an 'expert', but I guess it would also mean people who were willing to take this role would have to bring a laptop off their own -an issue for me as I don't own one...</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 12 Jul 2013 14:19, "Javier Llopis" <<a href="mailto:javier@correo.com" target="_blank">javier@correo.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
>> Another person could simply say: mmm... interesting but... not for my<br>
>> level. And stop coming. Do you really want this?<br>
><br>
> When all's said and done, if someone doesn't think it's for them, then<br>
> it's not for them. We can try to be as accommodating as possible, but<br>
> you can't please all the people all the time.<br>
><br>
<br>
...And in this case, I would rather try to keep the expert coders in<br>
instead of the newbies. Better be challenged than bored.<br>
<br>
Just my 2p<br>
<br>
J<br>
<br>
<br>
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</blockquote></div>
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