<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span">Thanks Chris. What's below is <SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="text-decoration: underline;">not</SPAN> a complete response, just a couple of specific, interim notes while I study up on the rest.<DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Charles</DIV><DIV> <BR><DIV><DIV>On Feb 8, 2006, at 1:06 PM, Christopher Barker wrote:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">also I hope a prominent one slapped onto the top of the MacPython</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">site.)</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Do you mean Jack Jansen's site?</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Yes. I'm thinking of what shows up at the top of likely Google searches; I think that's pythonmac.org and "MacPython Website."</DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "></DIV><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">For a page title that covers the ground broadly and accurately, I</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">propose Python on the Mac</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Looks good, Does "Mac" now mean OS-X unambiguously?</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>That's a good question. (And what *is* the situation for OS9ers who want Python?)</DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">For me, the list would be (1) get Bob's framework (2) pick and</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">install an IDE</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Given the state of IDEs and their installers, don't start there. Start</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">with a the terminal and a text editor.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>I have reservations about this. Particularly if, as you say and as I agree, the target audience is newcomers to Python (assumed not to be newcomers to the Mac), then a way to avoid starting with the Terminal is essential -- in fact, I'd say it's a primary motive in doing this project at all.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Hence my support of:</DIV> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Somebody who comes idly to the idea of programming in Python, and finds the pythonmac page, will be happy if the result is an afternoon's work that ends in a "hello world," possibly in a window.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>Using my own arbitrary preferences, that would entail:</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">1. downloading & installing Bob's framework 2. downloading &</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">installing TigerPython24Fix 3. adding /usr/local/bin to the PATH</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">We really should build an installer that does the three of these at once</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">(with the PATH editing optional). I have no idea how to do that, though.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>But it's true that this is a reasonable alternative beginning path:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I do think a little "getting started" tutorial with a editor and the</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">command line is a good idea, however. enough that they can read one of</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">the intro books and know what to do.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>Here's a similar crux:<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Bill Janssen wrote:</DIV><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Who wants to open windows?<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>Why is a GUI automatically necessary?</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>One answer: exactly the people conceived as the likely entry-level audience for this page. If you're a Mac user, confronted with a programming language/environment, one of the first things you'll want to know is how to make a little windowing app (whether you know that's what it's called or not).</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></SPAN></BODY></HTML>