<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><BR><DIV><DIV>On 31 Mar, 2007, at 1:49, Jack Jansen wrote:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR><DIV><DIV>On 30-Mar-2007, at 22:55 , Kevin Walzer wrote:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Looking at the "Macintosh Library" documentation that ships with 2.5, I<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">see a lot of outdated stuff: references to the old PythonIDE,<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">PackageManager, and so on. What is the process for updating these docs,<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">submitting a bug report, etc.?</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><DIV><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Also, there appears to be a lot of modules in the "Macintosh<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Library"--Carbon modules, generally--that are undocumented, or are<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">broken, or (almost as bad) no one know if they work or not. Has anyone<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">gone through these to sort out what works, what should be deprecated,<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">etc.? Does it make sense to deprecate the entire Carbon module? What's<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">the process for this?</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>I had a chat about this with Ronald a few months ago, where we basically went through all the modules. Ronald,</DIV><DIV>do you have your notes handy?<BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>I have them somewhere, I'll see if I can find them. From what I remember a lot of the "Macintosh Library" is ancient and should be removed, but that's mostly when looking at a list of toplevel modules, not in code size. </DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>One thing we (Jack and I) talked about is moving at least the Carbon modules to its own separate project instead of being part of the standard library. The most important reason for this is that the Carbon modules and Python itself should be on a different release schedule: the Carbon should track whatever Apple is doing instead of having to wait until the next major release of Python before new APIs can be added. </DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>A major stumbling block for that is that someone needs to step up to commit to maintaining the thing.</DIV><DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>Carbon itself should be fine. It is indeed undocumented within the Python documentation, but the transformation from the official Apple C documentation is pretty clear (I think).<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>You're a bit biased in that regard :-). I try to steer clear of Carbon and can't really comment on the quality of the Carbon modules and how easy it is to use them. </DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Ronald</DIV><DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">--</FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">Jack Jansen, <<A href="mailto:Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl">Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl</A>>, <A href="http://www.cwi.nl/~jack">http://www.cwi.nl/~jack</A></FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman</FONT></DIV> <BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"> </DIV><BR><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">_______________________________________________</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Pythonmac-SIG maillist<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>-<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN><A href="mailto:Pythonmac-SIG@python.org">Pythonmac-SIG@python.org</A></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A href="http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig">http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig</A></DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></BODY></HTML>