From litianyou1977 at 163.com  Fri Jun  3 11:40:23 2005
From: litianyou1977 at 163.com (=?gb2312?B?wO7M7NPT?=)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 17:40:23 +0800 (CST)
Subject: [summerofcode] Need information about py2exe
Message-ID: <42A02587.000194.05055@m237.163.com>

Dear thelle,
   I am very interesting in py2exe, and got a stable version from sf.net. But I am not very clear about what the next version of py2exe should support, and what feature should be implement during the summercode period if i apply for py2exe project.
  
Thank!

Li Tianyou
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From saket at cc.iitb.ac.in  Fri Jun  3 11:57:25 2005
From: saket at cc.iitb.ac.in (Saket Sathe)
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 15:27:25 +0530
Subject: [summerofcode] need info..
Message-ID: <42A02985.2020609@cc.iitb.ac.in>

Hi,
I am student of IIT Bombay, India. I am die hard Python fan.
How shall I go about helping the Python community under the Google's 
Summer of Code initiative.

Sorry if this question is being asked many times but I am not able to 
view the mailing list archives.

-- 
Saket
 


From mistobaan at gmail.com  Fri Jun  3 12:34:52 2005
From: mistobaan at gmail.com (Misto .)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 12:34:52 +0200
Subject: [summerofcode] SpeedUpInterpreterStartup - IDEAS
Message-ID: <e437f2f05060303343adfa96a@mail.gmail.com>

Hi every one

Thanks to the google summer of code I have noticed the proposal of
speeding up the python start up.

http://wiki.python.org/moin/SpeedUpInterpreterStartup

I think I will start reviewing Python 2.4.1 code trying to spot something...
next I will try to seek/create for a sort of profiler/benchmark to
monitoring start up times
I want also to give a look to Psyco (http://psyco.sourceforge.net),
watching for something useful.

If one (or more) of the Mentors is interested in helping can 
contact me [ mistobaan AT gmail DOT com ]

Any good ideas or material concerning the topic is welcome.

M1st0

From shitizb at yahoo.com  Fri Jun  3 13:19:13 2005
From: shitizb at yahoo.com (Shitiz Bansal)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 04:19:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [summerofcode] need info..
In-Reply-To: <42A02985.2020609@cc.iitb.ac.in>
Message-ID: <20050603111913.52286.qmail@web53802.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi,
I am from IIT Delhi. I am looking for this info too.
Shitiz

Saket Sathe <saket at cc.iitb.ac.in> wrote:
Hi,
I am student of IIT Bombay, India. I am die hard Python fan.
How shall I go about helping the Python community under the Google's 
Summer of Code initiative.

Sorry if this question is being asked many times but I am not able to 
view the mailing list archives.

-- 
Saket


_______________________________________________
summerofcode mailing list
summerofcode at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/summerofcode

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From azurit at pobox.sk  Fri Jun  3 15:23:18 2005
From: azurit at pobox.sk (azurIt)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 15:23:18 +0200
Subject: [summerofcode] own project
Message-ID: <200506031323.j53DNIfw016710@www4.pobox.sk>

hi,

can i also choose to work on my own project ? it's coded in python but
i can't see a way how it can help to the PSF. i want to join the
Google Code project and i need to have a sponsor to be able to
subscribe on google page.

azurIt

___________________________________________________________________________
Podte na navstevu k Wande - k najlepsej priatelke kazdej zeny na internete.
http://www.wanda.sk/


From jelkner at divmod.com  Fri Jun  3 15:28:38 2005
From: jelkner at divmod.com (jelkner@divmod.com)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:28:38 +0000
Subject: [summerofcode] What a wonderful program!
In-Reply-To: 0
Message-ID: <20050603132838.31075.597228295.divmod.quotient.405@ohm>

Hi All,

I was *very* excited to see this program come into being.  It will be a fantastic way to provide support and encouragement to developing programmers, and to reward the hard work that they put into free software projects.

I will be working with several students this summer on a competency tracking application called CanDo.  I've been in active communication with Tom Hoffman from the SchoolTool project, and he has agreed to help us get up to speed so we can contribute to SchoolTool. Our goal is to make CanDo work with SchoolTool.

A former student, Paul Carduner, has applied to Summer of Code listing the PSF as the sponsoring organization, me as the mentor, and CanDo as the project.  I hope that is OK.

Thanks!

jeff elkner

From codedivine at gmail.com  Fri Jun  3 20:09:10 2005
From: codedivine at gmail.com (Rahul Garg)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 14:09:10 -0400
Subject: [summerofcode] project ideas apart from psf
Message-ID: <a2f50cd05060311092be1d74b@mail.gmail.com>

Hi.
I have submitted a project idea related to Idle thats not in the list
of ideas proposed by the PSF but is highly related to development of
python tools. Is it ok to propose our own ideas and not use one of the
PSF ones?

Also i will be very happy to work on the idea even if i am not
selected for the Google program.  In such a case can psf arrange for
some mentor for me even if i am not selected for the program?

sincerely,
Rahul Garg

From codedivine at gmail.com  Fri Jun  3 21:07:29 2005
From: codedivine at gmail.com (Rahul Garg)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 15:07:29 -0400
Subject: [summerofcode] mentor selection
Message-ID: <a2f50cd050603120747a1ff97@mail.gmail.com>

Hi.
About the application process:
Are we supposed to select our mentors from the list of people on the
wiki listed as interested OR will PSF review our application and
contact mentors itself?
sincerely,
Rahul

From jhylton at gmail.com  Fri Jun  3 21:29:44 2005
From: jhylton at gmail.com (Jeremy Hylton)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 15:29:44 -0400
Subject: [summerofcode] mentor selection
In-Reply-To: <a2f50cd050603120747a1ff97@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a2f50cd050603120747a1ff97@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e8bf7a53050603122992bd24f@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/3/05, Rahul Garg <codedivine at gmail.com> wrote:
> About the application process:
> Are we supposed to select our mentors from the list of people on the
> wiki listed as interested OR will PSF review our application and
> contact mentors itself?

I don't think the process is worked out in any detail, but I expect
the PSF and mentors will work together to match accepted proposals to
mentors.

Jeremy

From fcano at ono.com  Fri Jun  3 21:35:13 2005
From: fcano at ono.com (Florencio Cano Gabarda)
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 21:35:13 +0200
Subject: [summerofcode] "Complete SSL support" project
Message-ID: <20050603213055.D66D.FCANO@ono.com>

Hello,
I'm very interested in this project for doing it for Google Summer of
Code. I would like to know if anyone is thinking about doing this
project too. I would like to know any kind of information about this
project, rationale for example, because I see that there exist ssl
module for python. amk is saying in the web that one possibility is
adding it to the core.
Any help would be appreciate specially from Python mentors.
Thanks in advance.
-- 
Florencio Cano Gabarda <fcano at ono.com>



From marcos.neves at gmail.com  Fri Jun  3 21:42:24 2005
From: marcos.neves at gmail.com (Marcos Neves)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 16:42:24 -0300
Subject: [summerofcode] wax
Message-ID: <9d6cfb9050603124238558476@mail.gmail.com>

I want to do my project over wax. How can I proceed?

From zephyrfalcon at gmail.com  Sat Jun  4 00:19:20 2005
From: zephyrfalcon at gmail.com (Hans Nowak)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 18:19:20 -0400
Subject: [summerofcode] Some people want to work on my project. But...
Message-ID: <48b2763e05060315194a670db7@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I've received requests from several people who want to work on Wax
(http://zephyrfalcon.org/labs/wax.html).

The way I understand it, these people must send their application to
the PSF, which will decide who (if anybody) gets to work on the
project. Is this correct?

Also, do I have to be a mentor in order for people to be selected to
work on Wax?

Thanks,

--
Hans Nowak 
http://zephyrfalcon.org/

From Fernando.Perez at colorado.edu  Sat Jun  4 00:28:43 2005
From: Fernando.Perez at colorado.edu (Fernando Perez)
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 16:28:43 -0600
Subject: [summerofcode] Mentoring question...
Message-ID: <42A0D99B.4050602@colorado.edu>

Hi all,

I've added a project idea

http://wiki.python.org/moin/NotebookInterfaceForIpython

for which I've already had students contact me.  I'm willing to mentor 
them on this project, and I'm in the process of drafting a formal 
project description they can attach to their google application.

Do I need to register anywhere in particular with the PSF for this?  I 
can't really offer mentorship for other projects.

Thanks for any relevant info,

f

From bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU  Sat Jun  4 01:34:17 2005
From: bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU (Brett C.)
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 16:34:17 -0700
Subject: [summerofcode] need info..
In-Reply-To: <20050603111913.52286.qmail@web53802.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20050603111913.52286.qmail@web53802.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <42A0E8F9.6040504@ocf.berkeley.edu>

Shitiz Bansal wrote:
> Hi,
> I am from IIT Delhi. I am looking for this info too.
> Shitiz
> 
> */Saket Sathe <saket at cc.iitb.ac.in>/* wrote:
> 
>     Hi,
>     I am student of IIT Bombay, India. I am die hard Python fan.
>     How shall I go about helping the Python community under the Google's
>     Summer of Code initiative.
> 
>     Sorry if this question is being asked many times but I am not able to
>     view the mailing list archives.
> 

Take a look at the wiki page listing current ideas:
http://wiki.python.org/moin/CodingProjectIdeas .  Otherwise any idea *you*
think would help Python is also possible.  The wiki is not the de-facto list;
all ideas are welcome.

-Brett

From bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU  Sat Jun  4 01:41:49 2005
From: bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU (Brett C.)
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 16:41:49 -0700
Subject: [summerofcode] Some people want to work on my project. But...
In-Reply-To: <48b2763e05060315194a670db7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <48b2763e05060315194a670db7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <42A0EABD.3040409@ocf.berkeley.edu>

Hans Nowak wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I've received requests from several people who want to work on Wax
> (http://zephyrfalcon.org/labs/wax.html).
> 
> The way I understand it, these people must send their application to
> the PSF, which will decide who (if anybody) gets to work on the
> project. Is this correct?
> 

Not quite.  They send their application to Google, who will forward it to the
PSF.  Then the PSF decides whether it wants to take on the responsibility of
acting as mentoring organization for the project.

> Also, do I have to be a mentor in order for people to be selected to
> work on Wax?
> 

Not necessarily.  As long as the PSF takes on the project it will be our
specific burden to help.  Obviously with Wax being your project it would be
good if you could act as the direct mentor for the person on the project.  It
would probably help its chances on being cleared if you did help out.

And a quick disclaimer; I believe David Ascher is acting as the goto guy on SoC
for the PSF so he has final say.

-Brett

From bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU  Sat Jun  4 01:44:10 2005
From: bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU (Brett C.)
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 16:44:10 -0700
Subject: [summerofcode] wax
In-Reply-To: <9d6cfb9050603124238558476@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9d6cfb9050603124238558476@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <42A0EB4A.1040004@ocf.berkeley.edu>

Marcos Neves wrote:
> I want to do my project over wax. How can I proceed?

Follow the procedure as laid out by Google; register with them, write up a
proposal and send it to them.  Also wouldn't help to talk to Hans Nowak (Wax is
his baby, right?) to see exactly what kind of help he might be able to provide.

-Brett

From bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU  Sat Jun  4 01:47:36 2005
From: bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU (Brett C.)
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 16:47:36 -0700
Subject: [summerofcode] "Complete SSL support" project
In-Reply-To: <20050603213055.D66D.FCANO@ono.com>
References: <20050603213055.D66D.FCANO@ono.com>
Message-ID: <42A0EC18.5080406@ocf.berkeley.edu>

Florencio Cano Gabarda wrote:
> Hello,
> I'm very interested in this project for doing it for Google Summer of
> Code. I would like to know if anyone is thinking about doing this
> project too. I would like to know any kind of information about this
> project, rationale for example, because I see that there exist ssl
> module for python. amk is saying in the web that one possibility is
> adding it to the core.
> Any help would be appreciate specially from Python mentors.
> Thanks in advance.

I can't talk about technical stuff about SSL, but I can talk about what AMK
means about getting it accepted.  One is making sure the code meets coding
standards.  Another is making sure it has a good API.  It would also be nice to
integrate it into the stdlib so that use in the urllib module (and any other
modules that use HTTP as a protocol) is transparent as possible for using SSL.

-Brett

From trentm at ActiveState.com  Sat Jun  4 01:50:08 2005
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 16:50:08 -0700
Subject: [summerofcode] wax
In-Reply-To: <42A0EB4A.1040004@ocf.berkeley.edu>
References: <9d6cfb9050603124238558476@mail.gmail.com>
	<42A0EB4A.1040004@ocf.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <20050603235008.GA29618@ActiveState.com>

[Brett C. wrote]
> Marcos Neves wrote:
> > I want to do my project over wax. How can I proceed?
> 
> Also wouldn't help to talk to Hans Nowak (Wax is
                ^^^^

I presume you meant "wouldn't hurt", right? :)

Trent

-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com

From bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU  Sat Jun  4 01:54:04 2005
From: bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU (Brett C.)
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 16:54:04 -0700
Subject: [summerofcode] project ideas apart from psf
In-Reply-To: <a2f50cd05060311092be1d74b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a2f50cd05060311092be1d74b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <42A0ED9C.60802@ocf.berkeley.edu>

Rahul Garg wrote:
> Hi.
> I have submitted a project idea related to Idle thats not in the list
> of ideas proposed by the PSF but is highly related to development of
> python tools. Is it ok to propose our own ideas and not use one of the
> PSF ones?
> 

Definitely!  The list on the wiki is in no way comprehensive.  It is just some
ideas some people have come up with.

> Also i will be very happy to work on the idea even if i am not
> selected for the Google program.  In such a case can psf arrange for
> some mentor for me even if i am not selected for the program?
> 

Possibly.  If it does not get picked up just post to comp.lang.python for help.
 You could also ask Kurt Kaiser (don't have his emails handy) directly since he
is in charge of IDLE.

-Brett

From bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU  Sat Jun  4 02:01:07 2005
From: bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU (Brett C.)
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 17:01:07 -0700
Subject: [summerofcode] own project
In-Reply-To: <200506031323.j53DNIfw016710@www4.pobox.sk>
References: <200506031323.j53DNIfw016710@www4.pobox.sk>
Message-ID: <42A0EF43.4040109@ocf.berkeley.edu>

azurIt wrote:
> hi,
> 
> can i also choose to work on my own project ? it's coded in python but
> i can't see a way how it can help to the PSF. i want to join the
> Google Code project and i need to have a sponsor to be able to
> subscribe on google page.
> 

Your project does not have to directly affect Python the language.  If it is a
good project that uses Python that is fine.  Being useful to the Python
community is the key thing in naming the PSF as the mentoring organization.

-Brett

From zephyrfalcon at gmail.com  Sat Jun  4 02:01:54 2005
From: zephyrfalcon at gmail.com (Hans Nowak)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 20:01:54 -0400
Subject: [summerofcode] Some people want to work on my project. But...
In-Reply-To: <42A0EABD.3040409@ocf.berkeley.edu>
References: <48b2763e05060315194a670db7@mail.gmail.com>
	<42A0EABD.3040409@ocf.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <48b2763e05060317014479fbc7@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/3/05, Brett C. <bac at ocf.berkeley.edu> wrote:
> Hans Nowak wrote:
> > Also, do I have to be a mentor in order for people to be selected to
> > work on Wax?
> >
> 
> Not necessarily.  As long as the PSF takes on the project it will be our
> specific burden to help.  Obviously with Wax being your project it would be
> good if you could act as the direct mentor for the person on the project.  It
> would probably help its chances on being cleared if you did help out.

I don't mind being a mentor, but my usefulness will probably be
limited to Wax. Will that be a problem? Or is a mentor expected to be
able to help out on any open source project?

-- 
Hans Nowak 
http://zephyrfalcon.org/

From christian at cheimes.de  Sat Jun  4 02:25:42 2005
From: christian at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 02:25:42 +0200
Subject: [summerofcode] own project
In-Reply-To: <42A0EF43.4040109@ocf.berkeley.edu>
References: <200506031323.j53DNIfw016710@www4.pobox.sk>
	<42A0EF43.4040109@ocf.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <42A0F506.8070500@cheimes.de>

Brett C. wrote:
> azurIt wrote:
> 
>>hi,
>>
>>can i also choose to work on my own project ? it's coded in python but
>>i can't see a way how it can help to the PSF. i want to join the
>>Google Code project and i need to have a sponsor to be able to
>>subscribe on google page.
>>
> 
> 
> Your project does not have to directly affect Python the language.  If it is a
> good project that uses Python that is fine.  Being useful to the Python
> community is the key thing in naming the PSF as the mentoring organization.

Hey that sounds great to/for us. We are some students working with and 
for Zope2, Zope3, Five and Plone and we are interested in starting some 
projects for the Summer of Code that are related to these projects and 
the upcoming ECMS project.

Glossary:

Zope2 and Zope3 http://zope.org/ are the current and upcoming new 
version of the Z Object Publising Environment. Zope is a highly advanced 
framework for web applications including a highly sophisticated database 
well know as ZODB and a web server.

Five (Zope 2+3) is a bridge between Zope2 and Zope3 that allows 
developers to create applications using the power of Zope3 in Zope2.

Plone http://plone.org/ is a highly advanced content management system 
and one of the killer applications based on Zope2.

ECMS is the current work name of a project started by the leading 
content management systems based on Zope2 (CPS from Nuxeo, Silva from 
Infrae, CMF and Plone) plus Zope3 developers to create common code base 
for enterprise content management systems based on Zope3.

Christian

From bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU  Sat Jun  4 02:29:54 2005
From: bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU (Brett C.)
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 17:29:54 -0700
Subject: [summerofcode] Mentoring question...
In-Reply-To: <42A0D99B.4050602@colorado.edu>
References: <42A0D99B.4050602@colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <42A0F602.6030405@ocf.berkeley.edu>

Fernando Perez wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I've added a project idea
> 
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/NotebookInterfaceForIpython
> 
> for which I've already had students contact me.  I'm willing to mentor 
> them on this project, and I'm in the process of drafting a formal 
> project description they can attach to their google application.
> 
> Do I need to register anywhere in particular with the PSF for this?  I 
> can't really offer mentorship for other projects.
> 
> Thanks for any relevant info,
> 

I would make sure that in the proposal that the students say that you have
offered to help out if the proposal is accepted.

Otherwise you should add yourself to the mentor list on the wiki but with the
proviso that you only have time for IPython proposals.

-Brett

From bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU  Sat Jun  4 02:30:43 2005
From: bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU (Brett C.)
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 17:30:43 -0700
Subject: [summerofcode] wax
In-Reply-To: <20050603235008.GA29618@ActiveState.com>
References: <9d6cfb9050603124238558476@mail.gmail.com>
	<42A0EB4A.1040004@ocf.berkeley.edu>
	<20050603235008.GA29618@ActiveState.com>
Message-ID: <42A0F633.6080805@ocf.berkeley.edu>

Trent Mick wrote:
> [Brett C. wrote]
> 
>>Marcos Neves wrote:
>>
>>>I want to do my project over wax. How can I proceed?
>>
>>Also wouldn't help to talk to Hans Nowak (Wax is
> 
>                 ^^^^
> 
> I presume you meant "wouldn't hurt", right? :)
> 

Yep.  =)  And to think, I might mentor someone.  Scary!

-Brett

From bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU  Sat Jun  4 02:33:56 2005
From: bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU (Brett C.)
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 17:33:56 -0700
Subject: [summerofcode] Some people want to work on my project. But...
In-Reply-To: <48b2763e05060317014479fbc7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <48b2763e05060315194a670db7@mail.gmail.com>	<42A0EABD.3040409@ocf.berkeley.edu>
	<48b2763e05060317014479fbc7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <42A0F6F4.1010206@ocf.berkeley.edu>

Hans Nowak wrote:
> On 6/3/05, Brett C. <bac at ocf.berkeley.edu> wrote:
> 
>>Hans Nowak wrote:
>>
>>>Also, do I have to be a mentor in order for people to be selected to
>>>work on Wax?
>>>
>>
>>Not necessarily.  As long as the PSF takes on the project it will be our
>>specific burden to help.  Obviously with Wax being your project it would be
>>good if you could act as the direct mentor for the person on the project.  It
>>would probably help its chances on being cleared if you did help out.
> 
> 
> I don't mind being a mentor, but my usefulness will probably be
> limited to Wax. Will that be a problem? Or is a mentor expected to be
> able to help out on any open source project?
> 

I would add yourself to the mentor list, but just specify you can probably only
help with Wax projects.  I am also guessing that any project that modifies or
works with an existing project will lead the PSF to contact the lead developer
to see if they can help out.

-Brett

From Fernando.Perez at colorado.edu  Sat Jun  4 02:51:15 2005
From: Fernando.Perez at colorado.edu (Fernando Perez)
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 18:51:15 -0600
Subject: [summerofcode] Mentoring question...
In-Reply-To: <42A0F602.6030405@ocf.berkeley.edu>
References: <42A0D99B.4050602@colorado.edu> <42A0F602.6030405@ocf.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <42A0FB03.1080206@colorado.edu>

Brett C. wrote:

> I would make sure that in the proposal that the students say that you have
> offered to help out if the proposal is accepted.

I've created this page:

http://ipython.scipy.org/google_soc

The brief PDF linked there, which they are free to use in their 
application, contains such a statement, and I also added an explicit 
reminder in the above page.

Please let me know if anything in that PDF description is not what the 
PSF intends/wants.

Many thanks,

f

From thaidn at gmail.com  Sat Jun  4 05:04:11 2005
From: thaidn at gmail.com (Thai Duong)
Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 10:04:11 +0700
Subject: [summerofcode] CleanupUrlLibProject
Message-ID: <d4e2d99705060320042086f3ea@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

I'm very interested in the CleanupUrlLibProject and really want to do it in 
the Google Summer of Code program. I have sent my application to Google. So 
what am I supposed to do next? Please advise. I'm ready to dive into this 
project immediately.

Regards,

--Thai Duong.

PS: A little bit about myself: I'm from 203.162.x.x, 21 years old, currently 
an undergraduate student of PolyTechnique University of Ho Chi Minh City. 
I'm an experienced network/linux administrator just happen to fall in love 
with Python recently. I really want to take Google Summer of Code as a 
chance to practice my Python skill as well as to "pay back" to the wonderful 
Python community.
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From saluk64007 at gmail.com  Sat Jun  4 07:26:26 2005
From: saluk64007 at gmail.com (Patrick Mullen)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 22:26:26 -0700
Subject: [summerofcode] Project proposal:
Message-ID: <c3f69bf6050603222638e9a609@mail.gmail.com>

 Hello fellow pythonistas! This seems like a great program that will 
hopefully infuse new life into a lot of the open source community, and it's 
wonderful that python is getting involved. At first I thought that I could 
only choose off of the idea list on the wiki, in which case the project I 
was going to go for would be the anygui one. While wxPython is now mostly 
considered the de facto standard, it seems a little big to be included as 
the standard gui for python. I would like to see a nice, featured, light, 
gui to replace tk, which is pretty shabby in my opinion. But that's quite a 
large undertaking. I would want to make it expandable, so that the same code 
can be used without installing an external toolkit, and then when you 
install gtk or wx it could use that. For the summer of code I think getting 
a reference implementation using sdl/opengl would be good. 

My other idea is to implement a 2d game engine layer on top of pygame. I've 
been working on such a thing for roughly a year, but it's not very usable at 
the moment. I have sprites, buggy animation, smooth scrolling, basic 
collision detection, verrry buggy physics, and tilemap support. My goal is 
to end up with a nice pythonic 2d engine that makes it easy to make any 
oldschool 2d game, from rpgs to platformers. You can create new classes 
which subclass the defaults, like characters, bullets, collision objects, to 
define functionality to fit the game. For instance, if you need a scripted 
event to occur when a player walks on a tile, you can subclass the tile 
class and add a def playerEnter() function which runs the event. Some of the 
scripting capabilities are already available, but there is a lot missing, 
and a lot of bugs. Many of the main systems, like collisions, pretty much 
need a complete rewrite. My goal for the summerofcode would be to get the 
engine up to a level where it can handle say, a simple mario-style 
platformer.

I am more interested in my game engine, because I would like to see more 
great games written in python; but pygame is so low level the majority of 
things we see made with it are very simple. It shouldn't be that hard to 
create games that are as good as seen on the snes, especially when we have 
the power of python in our hands!

Which one do you guys think I should work on, and do you think I have a 
chance of being accepted? I have a feeling that the game project might be 
looked down upon. If I do take on the gui, does anyone have any input on how 
I should go about it? The way I want to do it is to use opengl to draw the 
widgets, falling back on sdl if opengl isn't available. However, neither 
pyopengl nor sdl are included in the standard library. Is there something 
else I should use for drawing? Should I write the opengl widgets in c and 
make it a c module? Or is this all a waste of time - i.e. tk is going to 
stay as the default gui.

Cheers!
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From bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU  Sat Jun  4 07:28:09 2005
From: bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU (Brett C.)
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 22:28:09 -0700
Subject: [summerofcode] Mentoring question...
In-Reply-To: <42A0FB03.1080206@colorado.edu>
References: <42A0D99B.4050602@colorado.edu> <42A0F602.6030405@ocf.berkeley.edu>
	<42A0FB03.1080206@colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <42A13BE9.7070304@ocf.berkeley.edu>

Fernando Perez wrote:
> Brett C. wrote:
> 
>> I would make sure that in the proposal that the students say that you
>> have
>> offered to help out if the proposal is accepted.
> 
> 
> I've created this page:
> 
> http://ipython.scipy.org/google_soc
> 
> The brief PDF linked there, which they are free to use in their
> application, contains such a statement, and I also added an explicit
> reminder in the above page.
> 
> Please let me know if anything in that PDF description is not what the
> PSF intends/wants.

Seems fine with me, but I am not even on the board of the PSF so I can't say
officially.  Be reasonable and there won't be any issue.

-Brett

From fuzzybr80 at gmail.com  Sat Jun  4 08:32:16 2005
From: fuzzybr80 at gmail.com (ChunWei Ho)
Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 14:32:16 +0800
Subject: [summerofcode] Application sent
Message-ID: <31f07fc30506032332713be89@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I have just sent an application to Google's summer of code, based on
Python web programming (WSGI) and an old project of mine that I will
make more generic. I would appreciate if anyone could eyeball it and
give comments.

Thanks in advance for the time. :)


Some told me that publishing the idea may not be good, but I thought
(a) Its not worth stealing
(b) Python programmers are above this (*naivety* point)
(c) The potential mentors would be reading this anyway

-------------------------------------------------

Project Title: Data Serving/Collection Framework in Python/WSGI

Proposed Mentor/Sponsoring Organization: Python Software Foundation

Project Description:
A framework based on bulk data serving/collection via the internet.
Bulk data are in the form of files that could easily be
several-several hundred MB (not surveys or simple POST data).

The client has a file repository that it wishes to sync to the server
(a WSGI application). This server should be able to facilitate
transfer via a number of protocols, including HTTP file transfer, HTTP
form upload, FTP, Email.

This project is aimed not at yet another ad-hoc file transfer or p2p
file-sharing program but as a persistent production setup for
transferring data from data collection sites/areas to a server,
possibly via internet through different methods to get through strict
organizational firewalls and web admins.

Unlike a normal straightforward file transfer application, the
framework should support:
+ Authentication and encryption
+ Verification scheme for data transfer, retries, etc - MD5 hash compare?
+ Chunking of large files and reassemble on receipt
+ Partial/Resume file transfers support - may depend on nature of data

Also, unlike commercial advanced file transfer programs, the framework does:
+ Supports multiple protocols for transfer HTTP/FTP/Email
+ Automatic identification of files to synchronize (comparison of
server and client repositories and request automatically)
+ Conditional Processing (triggers - resync file if modified? logic -
user specified)
+ Robust and considerate client - may be shared machine, means a
service (I initially designed it for Windows clients - platform choice
was not up to me) that must be configurable on when it runs, how long
it runs
+ and if configured limit does not allow client to sync all data -
what must be synced first (Latest file first, Earliest file first,
Latest file only, etc). This form of consideration seems to be
important for running on production sites or factory machines when the
machine is in use in the day but idle for our use at night, or when
machines have internet connectivity (possibly dialup) at only certain
times of the day.


Development will be based on WSGI/Paste model, although I will also
investigate Zope/Cherry/Plone and other frameworks purely for
comparison or design consideration purposes. WSGI is chosen for small
learning curve, as well as the fact that data collection for an
application can be separated from other functions.


Benefits To The Community:
I had attempted to do such work for data collection in an earlier
project in Python. My lack of knowledge of web frameworks probably
made it a messy piece of code. Also there wasn't anything like this
(perhaps I was not thinking generic enough) that I could just adapt to
fill my needs.

Even if the project itself has a niche audience (not everyone needs a
framework to collect data from behind firewalls and strict site
admins), going thru the project will come up with components for
general use in Python/WSGI, such as on the TODO list:
+ A WSGI file-serving application. This application should understand
all the relevant conditionals (If-Modified-Since, etc), gzipped
encoding, etc.
+ Scheme to translate different forms/protocols, e.g. FTP, into WSGI
executable actions (HTTP GET, PUT, PROPFIND)


Brief Bio:

<stuff omitted>

From ianb at colorstudy.com  Sat Jun  4 08:47:43 2005
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 01:47:43 -0500
Subject: [summerofcode] Project proposal:
In-Reply-To: <c3f69bf6050603222638e9a609@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c3f69bf6050603222638e9a609@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <42A14E8F.2010407@colorstudy.com>

Patrick Mullen wrote:
>    Hello fellow pythonistas!  This seems like a great program that will 
> hopefully infuse new life into a lot of the open source community, and 
> it's wonderful that python is getting involved.  At first I thought that 
> I could only choose off of the idea list on the wiki, in which case the 
> project I was going to go for would be the anygui one.  While wxPython 
> is now mostly considered the de facto standard, it seems a little big to 
> be included as the standard gui for python.  I would like to see a nice, 
> featured, light, gui to replace tk, which is pretty shabby in my 
> opinion.  But that's quite a large undertaking.  I would want to make it 
> expandable, so that the same code can be used without installing an 
> external toolkit, and then when you install gtk or wx it could use 
> that.  For the summer of code I think getting a reference implementation 
> using sdl/opengl would be good. 

FYI, PyUI is a toolkit built on pygame: http://pyui.sourceforge.net/ -- 
I don't think it's been developed very actively for a while though.

I put up the Anygui item, because personally I think it would be really 
really nice to have.  None of the native libraries (wxPython, pyGTK, 
etc) are very Pythonic.  And I don't really blame them, because it's 
best to honestly represent the underlying library, but I feel like 
something is sorely lacking that there aren't better libraries on top of 
those.  Wax is a notable exception, but there should be more competition 
for this sort of thing.  And personally I think wxWidgets is 
implementing the abstraction layer in the wrong place on the stack, 
which is why Anygui seems appealing to me.

*But*, I don't do much GUI programming, this is just my impression from 
a once-a-year foray into writing a GUI app.  So I don't really know what 
I'm talking about ;)

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  / http://blog.ianbicking.org

From ianb at colorstudy.com  Sat Jun  4 09:10:07 2005
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 02:10:07 -0500
Subject: [summerofcode] Application sent
In-Reply-To: <31f07fc30506032332713be89@mail.gmail.com>
References: <31f07fc30506032332713be89@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <42A153CF.3040600@colorstudy.com>

ChunWei Ho wrote:
> Some told me that publishing the idea may not be good, but I thought
> (a) Its not worth stealing
> (b) Python programmers are above this (*naivety* point)
> (c) The potential mentors would be reading this anyway

I think it's good -- one thing that open source has taught me is that 
ideas aren't very valuable when compared to implementation (code or 
otherwise).  And transparency is good.

> Project Title: Data Serving/Collection Framework in Python/WSGI
> 
> Proposed Mentor/Sponsoring Organization: Python Software Foundation
> 
> Project Description:
> A framework based on bulk data serving/collection via the internet.
> Bulk data are in the form of files that could easily be
> several-several hundred MB (not surveys or simple POST data).
> 
> The client has a file repository that it wishes to sync to the server
> (a WSGI application). This server should be able to facilitate
> transfer via a number of protocols, including HTTP file transfer, HTTP
> form upload, FTP, Email.
> 
> This project is aimed not at yet another ad-hoc file transfer or p2p
> file-sharing program but as a persistent production setup for
> transferring data from data collection sites/areas to a server,
> possibly via internet through different methods to get through strict
> organizational firewalls and web admins.
> 
> Unlike a normal straightforward file transfer application, the
> framework should support:
> + Authentication and encryption
> + Verification scheme for data transfer, retries, etc - MD5 hash compare?
> + Chunking of large files and reassemble on receipt
> + Partial/Resume file transfers support - may depend on nature of data

This can also be part of the file transfer app, using HTTP range support.

Each piece that can be implemented in a generic way will be easier to 
decouple, test, and implement.  And HTTP has a lot of possible 
functionality that's worth implementing directly.  For instance, etags 
are similar in function to hashes, and there's a standard header for 
giving the hash of a body (I don't think it gets much use, though, 
because TCP/IP is reliable enough).  Even encryption can even be done in 
terms of SSL with client certificates (though that might be difficult, 
as SSL happens at a level that is sometimes hard to get access to, 
depending on your server).

> Also, unlike commercial advanced file transfer programs, the framework does:
> + Supports multiple protocols for transfer HTTP/FTP/Email
> + Automatic identification of files to synchronize (comparison of
> server and client repositories and request automatically)
> + Conditional Processing (triggers - resync file if modified? logic -
> user specified)
> + Robust and considerate client - may be shared machine, means a
> service (I initially designed it for Windows clients - platform choice
> was not up to me) that must be configurable on when it runs, how long
> it runs
> + and if configured limit does not allow client to sync all data -
> what must be synced first (Latest file first, Earliest file first,
> Latest file only, etc). This form of consideration seems to be
> important for running on production sites or factory machines when the
> machine is in use in the day but idle for our use at night, or when
> machines have internet connectivity (possibly dialup) at only certain
> times of the day.

How do you see it as different from rsync?  If it's not that different, 
that's not so bad -- derivative perhaps, but rsync is very popular and 
useful, and you can do a lot worse than copy a useful piece of software. 
  If the pieces that are used to implement it are decoupled, then that 
leaves yourself or other people room to recombine the pieces in novel 
ways, while at the same time copying something useful means you'll have 
a set of pieces that have proven utility.

This will be especially true to the degree you utilize HTTP's potential.

> Development will be based on WSGI/Paste model, although I will also
> investigate Zope/Cherry/Plone and other frameworks purely for
> comparison or design consideration purposes. WSGI is chosen for small
> learning curve, as well as the fact that data collection for an
> application can be separated from other functions.

I think the benefit of WSGI here -- and I think it is considerable -- is 
that it is low-level enough that you don't have to work around places 
where the framework isn't intended for how you are using it.  This is 
especially true of large file support and more advanced HTTP 
functionality (like ranges and etags and that sort of thing).  Lots of 
frameworks are notably bad at large files in particular.

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  / http://blog.ianbicking.org

From fcano at ono.com  Sat Jun  4 10:46:59 2005
From: fcano at ono.com (Florencio Cano Gabarda)
Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 10:46:59 +0200
Subject: [summerofcode] "Complete SSL support" project
In-Reply-To: <42A0EC18.5080406@ocf.berkeley.edu>
References: <20050603213055.D66D.FCANO@ono.com>
	<42A0EC18.5080406@ocf.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <20050604103726.CD1E.FCANO@ono.com>

> One is making sure the code meets coding
> standards.  Another is making sure it has a good API.  It would also be nice to
> integrate it into the stdlib so that use in the urllib module (and any other
> modules that use HTTP as a protocol) is transparent as possible for using SSL.

Ok. So, what do you think of me applying for this work: make a module
for python called ssl.py that implements completely ssl and that has a
good API. And if possible integrate it in the stdlib and any other
module that use http to work trasparently with ssl. ?ok?
But I have some questions:

1) All modules integrated in the stdlib are coded in C ? I ask that
because I would be preferably interested in coding in python but C is ok
for me too.

2) Are there any requeriments, apart of being a very good module, to add
a module to the stdlib ?

3) Sorry because english is not my mother language so I don't understand
exactly this sentence: "...integrate it into the stdlib so that use in
the urllib module...". That means to add integrate ssl.py module to
urllib too?

Thanks very much for your help. It will be a great summer, summer of
code.

-- 
Florencio Cano Gabarda <fcano at ono.com>



From azurit at pobox.sk  Sat Jun  4 11:36:56 2005
From: azurit at pobox.sk (azurIt)
Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 11:36:56 +0200
Subject: [summerofcode] own project
Message-ID: <200506040936.j549au1A023108@www7.pobox.sk>



> azurIt wrote:
> > hi,
> > 
> > can i also choose to work on my own project ? it's coded in python but
> > i can't see a way how it can help to the PSF. i want to join the
> > Google Code project and i need to have a sponsor to be able to
> > subscribe on google page.
> > 
> 
> Your project does not have to directly affect Python the language. 
If it is a
> good project that uses Python that is fine.  Being useful to the Python
> community is the key thing in naming the PSF as the mentoring
organization.
> 
> -Brett
> 


so i can't have PSF as a mentoring organization ?

the project is a web based application (it uses mod_python) which is
usefull for basic and high schools. i started it about three months
ago and until now, two school in Slovakia are useing it. of course,
it's not complete yet, there are many things which must be done.

azurIt

___________________________________________________________________________
Podte na navstevu k Wande - k najlepsej priatelke kazdej zeny na internete.
http://www.wanda.sk/


From bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU  Sat Jun  4 18:47:57 2005
From: bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU (Brett C.)
Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 09:47:57 -0700
Subject: [summerofcode] own project
In-Reply-To: <200506040936.j549au1A023108@www7.pobox.sk>
References: <200506040936.j549au1A023108@www7.pobox.sk>
Message-ID: <42A1DB3D.2060801@ocf.berkeley.edu>

azurIt wrote:
> 
>>azurIt wrote:
>>
>>>hi,
>>>
>>>can i also choose to work on my own project ? it's coded in python but
>>>i can't see a way how it can help to the PSF. i want to join the
>>>Google Code project and i need to have a sponsor to be able to
>>>subscribe on google page.
>>>
>>
>>Your project does not have to directly affect Python the language. 
> 
> If it is a
> 
>>good project that uses Python that is fine.  Being useful to the Python
>>community is the key thing in naming the PSF as the mentoring
> 
> organization.
> 
>>-Brett
>>
> 
> 
> 
> so i can't have PSF as a mentoring organization ?
> 

As I said, as long as the project is useful to the Python community.  All that
says is that the application uses Python and it is useful.

> the project is a web based application (it uses mod_python) which is
> usefull for basic and high schools. i started it about three months
> ago and until now, two school in Slovakia are useing it. of course,
> it's not complete yet, there are many things which must be done.
> 

Best I can say is to apply and find out.  I obviously can't predict what the
PSF will and won't approve.  Sorry I can't be more specific but the PSF has not
had time to work out exactly how proposals will be decided upon.  At least you
have a better chance with us than the Perl Foundation.  =)

-Brett

From bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU  Sat Jun  4 19:05:51 2005
From: bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU (Brett C.)
Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 10:05:51 -0700
Subject: [summerofcode] "Complete SSL support" project
In-Reply-To: <20050604103726.CD1E.FCANO@ono.com>
References: <20050603213055.D66D.FCANO@ono.com>	<42A0EC18.5080406@ocf.berkeley.edu>
	<20050604103726.CD1E.FCANO@ono.com>
Message-ID: <42A1DF6F.1080006@ocf.berkeley.edu>

Florencio Cano Gabarda wrote:
>>One is making sure the code meets coding
>>standards.  Another is making sure it has a good API.  It would also be nice to
>>integrate it into the stdlib so that use in the urllib module (and any other
>>modules that use HTTP as a protocol) is transparent as possible for using SSL.
> 
> 
> Ok. So, what do you think of me applying for this work: make a module
> for python called ssl.py that implements completely ssl and that has a
> good API. And if possible integrate it in the stdlib and any other
> module that use http to work trasparently with ssl. ?ok?

Sounds fine with me, but I am not a web guy so I am probably the wrong person
to ask.  Hopefully someone with more need for an SSL module can comment.

I would continue to hash stuff out on the wiki.  Maybe consider contacting the
authors of other SSL modules to see if they have any ideas.  Just keep getting
ideas from various people who would use the module.

> But I have some questions:
> 
> 1) All modules integrated in the stdlib are coded in C ? I ask that
> because I would be preferably interested in coding in python but C is ok
> for me too.
> 

They are not all in C!  If you have a a source download of Python just look in
the Lib directory to see how much is coded in Python.

If you can do it in Python then please do so.  At this point things are written
in C for the stdlib either because they have to be (interface to a C library,
etc.) or there is a *huge* speed requirement.  Otherwise it should be in C.

> 2) Are there any requeriments, apart of being a very good module, to add
> a module to the stdlib ?
> 

Wide usage.  Basically the community has to find it useful for it to go in.
What that suggests is that your module needs to somehow provide something that
other implementations don't have.  If that is better integration into the
stdlib that might do it.

So I would just think about what you would want from an SSL module that you
think would make it worthy to go into the stdlib and write that.

> 3) Sorry because english is not my mother language so I don't understand
> exactly this sentence: "...integrate it into the stdlib so that use in
> the urllib module...". That means to add integrate ssl.py module to
> urllib too?
>

Kind of.  What I mean is for stuff like urllib.urlretrieve() support SSL
without any special work.  I don't know how SSL works so I don't know how easy
or hard that would be.

> Thanks very much for your help. It will be a great summer, summer of
> code.
> 

Hopefully!  =)

-Brett

From bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU  Sat Jun  4 19:09:58 2005
From: bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU (Brett C.)
Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 10:09:58 -0700
Subject: [summerofcode] CleanupUrlLibProject
In-Reply-To: <d4e2d99705060320042086f3ea@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d4e2d99705060320042086f3ea@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <42A1E066.2050400@ocf.berkeley.edu>

Thai Duong wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> I'm very interested in the CleanupUrlLibProject and really want to do it
> in the Google Summer of Code program. I have sent my application to
> Google. So what am I supposed to do next? Please advise. I'm ready to
> dive into this project immediately.
> 

Sit and wait.  =)  At some point Google will forward to the PSF all the
applications for us to look over and we then will go over them and decide which
ones to accept.

-Brett

From bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU  Sat Jun  4 19:14:40 2005
From: bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU (Brett C.)
Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 10:14:40 -0700
Subject: [summerofcode] Project proposal:
In-Reply-To: <c3f69bf6050603222638e9a609@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c3f69bf6050603222638e9a609@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <42A1E180.1010101@ocf.berkeley.edu>

Patrick Mullen wrote:
>    Hello fellow pythonistas!  This seems like a great program that will
> hopefully infuse new life into a lot of the open source community, and
> it's wonderful that python is getting involved.  At first I thought that
> I could only choose off of the idea list on the wiki, in which case the
> project I was going to go for would be the anygui one.  While wxPython
> is now mostly considered the de facto standard, it seems a little big to
> be included as the standard gui for python.  I would like to see a nice,
> featured, light, gui to replace tk, which is pretty shabby in my
> opinion.  But that's quite a large undertaking.  I would want to make it
> expandable, so that the same code can be used without installing an
> external toolkit, and then when you install gtk or wx it could use
> that.  For the summer of code I think getting a reference implementation
> using sdl/opengl would be good. 
>   

This is obviously my personal opinion and not the PSF's or python-dev, but I
would not count on Tkinter being replaced any time soon.  Python 3000 might see
a GUI change, but who knows.

But don't let that discourage you!  Just because something might not go into
the stdlib does not make it useless!  As long as the community would find it
useful that is what counts.

>    My other idea is to implement a 2d game engine layer on top of
> pygame.  I've been working on such a thing for roughly a year, but it's
> not very usable at the moment.  I have sprites, buggy animation, smooth
> scrolling, basic collision detection, verrry buggy physics, and tilemap
> support.  My goal is to end up with a nice pythonic 2d engine that makes
> it easy to make any oldschool 2d game, from rpgs to platformers.  You
> can create new classes which subclass the defaults, like characters,
> bullets, collision objects, to define functionality to fit the game. 
> For instance, if you need a scripted event to occur when a player walks
> on a tile, you can subclass the tile class and add a def playerEnter()
> function which runs the event.  Some of the scripting capabilities are
> already available, but there is a lot missing, and a lot of bugs.  Many
> of the main systems, like collisions, pretty much need a complete
> rewrite.  My goal for the summerofcode would be to get the engine up to
> a level where it can handle say, a simple mario-style platformer.
> 

That sounds like a fine idea.  I doubt the PSF is going to reject an idea just
because it is for games and not some module to help facilitate coding.

If Google doesn't prevent you from making multiple proposals (don't they let
you make multiple proposals but only have one accepted?) I would propose both.

-Brett

From roth at cs.utah.edu  Sun Jun  5 00:14:54 2005
From: roth at cs.utah.edu (Greg Roth)
Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 15:14:54 -0700
Subject: [summerofcode] shag: a graphics shell (summer of code project)
Message-ID: <42A227DE.1000701@cs.utah.edu>

I have an idea for a project that is similar to python, but has nothing
to do with python per se. I'm developing a shell for graphics that
allows users to issue commands that would otherwise need to be couched
in a general-purpose language with whatever linking and such that would
involve.
The intention of this project is to create a more interesting
environment for beginning programs who  get more excited by spinning
cubes than "hello world" and serves as a pedagogical tool for anyone
interested in understanding the graphics pipeline in general, the OpenGL
interface in particular, or just wants to try something quick and dirty
without having to go through all the language issues such
experimentation would otherwise involve.
The language associated with the shell will include all typical
programming language constructs such as loops, conditionals, and
functions. It will also feature primitive graphics objects like colors,
vectors, matrices, vertices, images, and meshes.
This is nothing like any of the ideas you suggested. As I said, it
really has nothing to do with python so much as it bears similar
language designs and philosophy.
I'd really appreciate knowing if this is something the Python Software
Foundation would consider. Thanks

Greg Roth


From codedivine at gmail.com  Sat Jun  4 23:53:49 2005
From: codedivine at gmail.com (Rahul Garg)
Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 17:53:49 -0400
Subject: [summerofcode] my project idea for soc
Message-ID: <a2f50cd0506041453562a8dcc@mail.gmail.com>

Hello People.
I have submitted a project idea for SOC. Your comments about it will be helpful.
I very much would like to work on this project regardless of SOC. So
if you are intersted in mentoring me about this one please let me
know! Some of the things and ideas required are especially complex and
I would be happy to receive help.
Second...i am currently doing an internship at a place where i have
python 2.3.3 installed and i dont have user permissions to install
python 2.4. the internship is till july 15. do you think my inability
to use python 2.4 till around july 20 can be a hindrance?
Rahul

Modified application (Third submission...second revised submission)

Title : Python visual object inspector

Details : 

We can make better use of dynamic nature of python as well as the
availability of tkinter in standard python distribution for a visual
object inspector. For example during debugging it will be helpful to
view an object.
Intended features:
1.The view of an object must display the class , attributes and documentation.
2.In absence of a view implementation by a class , the default
behaviour can be calling of view on attributes.
3.String representation can be included.
4.'Hyperlinks' to base classes should be provided.
5.String fields can be directly edited.
6.The view really enables visual programming to a certain extent.We
can even have a metaclass called viewable.We can register the creation
of viewable objects and can view the list of objects created so far.
So we get a complete snapshot of the program in a visual way.
7.I think some features are supported by CMUCL (a common lisp
compiler) as a grahical 'inspect' feature but i am not sure.
8.The feature must work correctly when being called from idle. In fact
this can be thought of as a idle extension project.
9.Some views to be implemented for things like list,dicts,sets and tuples.
10.View must be capable enough to understand about the features of new
style classes.

I am now modifying some of my earlier proposals:

1.I think my earlier proposal that view can also be used to build some
file viewers like html viewers is incorrect. It should focus only on
object property views etc which are helpful for programming.

2.If a registry of viewable objects is to be maintained it should
include some mechanism so that if there are no references other than
the registry it should be garbage collected.

3.Having a name field of an object will also be helpful. Knowing where
an object got created is helpful...but difficult task to implement
without the programmer having to write much extra code.

From ianb at colorstudy.com  Sun Jun  5 00:25:43 2005
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 17:25:43 -0500
Subject: [summerofcode] my project idea for soc
In-Reply-To: <a2f50cd0506041453562a8dcc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a2f50cd0506041453562a8dcc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <42A22A67.6010302@colorstudy.com>

Hi Rahul.  It sounds like a very useful project.  Some comments:

Rahul Garg wrote:
> Hello People.
> I have submitted a project idea for SOC. Your comments about it will be helpful.
> I very much would like to work on this project regardless of SOC. So
> if you are intersted in mentoring me about this one please let me
> know! Some of the things and ideas required are especially complex and
> I would be happy to receive help.
> Second...i am currently doing an internship at a place where i have
> python 2.3.3 installed and i dont have user permissions to install
> python 2.4. the internship is till july 15. do you think my inability
> to use python 2.4 till around july 20 can be a hindrance?
> Rahul

I don't think Python 2.4 changes anything very significant for this project.

> Modified application (Third submission...second revised submission)
> 
> Title : Python visual object inspector
> 
> Details : 
> 
> We can make better use of dynamic nature of python as well as the
> availability of tkinter in standard python distribution for a visual
> object inspector. For example during debugging it will be helpful to
> view an object.

One thing you don't mention, but seems like an obvious aspect of this 
(and something you probably intend), is the ability to view and traverse 
Python frame objects.  In other words, view the frames in a traceback, 
and view the local variables in those frames.

> Intended features:
> 1.The view of an object must display the class , attributes and documentation.

This sounds like an ideal place to use Adapters or generic functions, so 
that views can be implemented separately from the objects themselves.

> 2.In absence of a view implementation by a class , the default
> behaviour can be calling of view on attributes.
> 3.String representation can be included.
> 4.'Hyperlinks' to base classes should be provided.

Another kind of traversal really -- objects contain references to their 
classes, classes contain references to their base classes, etc.  Still a 
lot of work to make that friendly, of course.

> 5.String fields can be directly edited.

Evaluating expressions in different contexts would generally be useful, 
and you'd get this ability for free (though without quite the same 
directed UI).

> 6.The view really enables visual programming to a certain extent.We
> can even have a metaclass called viewable.We can register the creation
> of viewable objects and can view the list of objects created so far.
> So we get a complete snapshot of the program in a visual way.

Right now it's challenging to manage and persist objects when you allow 
this kind of flexibility.  You can pickle objects, but you can't pickle 
code, so you'd have to create a whole new serialization process (maybe a 
hybrid of pickle and marshal).  An interesting task, but it should 
really be a step two -- there's already a lot of work in this project, 
and I think it would be more important to get that work nailed down first.

> 7.I think some features are supported by CMUCL (a common lisp
> compiler) as a grahical 'inspect' feature but i am not sure.

These basic features do exist in many languages.  I'm sure there's 
something out there for Python, but I'm not immediately aware of 
anything.  If that's the case, a successful way to approach the problem 
can often be tackling a smaller task than other projects, and trying to 
do it really well, and building on that.

> 8.The feature must work correctly when being called from idle. In fact
> this can be thought of as a idle extension project.

I'm sure this would be useful elsewhere as well.  For instance, py.test 
recently added a Tk frontend, and this could be very useful there.

> 9.Some views to be implemented for things like list,dicts,sets and tuples.
> 10.View must be capable enough to understand about the features of new
> style classes.
> 
> I am now modifying some of my earlier proposals:
> 
> 1.I think my earlier proposal that view can also be used to build some
> file viewers like html viewers is incorrect. It should focus only on
> object property views etc which are helpful for programming.
> 
> 2.If a registry of viewable objects is to be maintained it should
> include some mechanism so that if there are no references other than
> the registry it should be garbage collected.

You mean a registry of instances, or classes?  It seems like instances 
shouldn't need to be referenced -- you'd probably register views for 
kinds of objects, not specific objects.  Classes and types aren't 
typically going to be garbage collected anyway, so it's not a big deal.

Well, that's not true if you want to keep live views of objects as they 
are modified.  In that case weak references are certainly necessary; the 
weakref module has everything you need, including callbacks so you could 
(for instance) remove widgets and views when objects are garbage collected.

> 3.Having a name field of an object will also be helpful. Knowing where
> an object got created is helpful...but difficult task to implement
> without the programmer having to write much extra code.

On many levels this is infeasible, though it is possible as you traverse 
objects to keep some record of what objects refer to what other objects, 
and have a kind of backreference search.  I don't believe it is 
generally possible to scan the entire process for backreferences (or it 
would require some low-level work in C to do it).

Of course, objects in Python don't have names, only the possibility of 
named bindings.  I think it would be a bad idea to create conventions 
for trully named objects, as there's good design reasons why Python 
doesn't already have this.

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  / http://blog.ianbicking.org

From skip at pobox.com  Sun Jun  5 00:29:00 2005
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 17:29:00 -0500
Subject: [summerofcode] my project idea for soc
In-Reply-To: <a2f50cd0506041453562a8dcc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a2f50cd0506041453562a8dcc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <17058.11052.609726.359494@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Rahul> We can make better use of dynamic nature of python as well as the
    Rahul> availability of tkinter in standard python distribution for a
    Rahul> visual object inspector. For example during debugging it will be
    Rahul> helpful to view an object.

    Rahul> Intended features:

    Rahul> 1.The view of an object must display the class , attributes and
    Rahul> documentation.
    ...

FYI, check out the _PyObject_Dump and _PyGC_Dump APIs, and the corresponding
usage in Misc/gdbinit:

    # Prints a representation of the object to stderr, along with the
    # number of reference counts it current has and the hex address the
    # object is allocated at.  The argument must be a PyObject*
    define pyo
    print _PyObject_Dump($arg0)
    end

    # Prints a representation of the object to stderr, along with the
    # number of reference counts it current has and the hex address the
    # object is allocated at.  The argument must be a PyGC_Head*
    define pyg
    print _PyGC_Dump($arg0)
    end

Extending them would probably be a good place to start.  It would be nice if
they could optionally display the attributes of an object as well.

Skip

From ianb at colorstudy.com  Sun Jun  5 00:48:56 2005
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 17:48:56 -0500
Subject: [summerofcode] shag: a graphics shell (summer of code project)
In-Reply-To: <42A227DE.1000701@cs.utah.edu>
References: <42A227DE.1000701@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <42A22FD8.1070705@colorstudy.com>

Greg Roth wrote:
> I have an idea for a project that is similar to python, but has nothing
> to do with python per se. I'm developing a shell for graphics that
> allows users to issue commands that would otherwise need to be couched
> in a general-purpose language with whatever linking and such that would
> involve.

It sounds like you want to make something with the same basic intention 
as Logo, but with more modern graphics.

> The intention of this project is to create a more interesting
> environment for beginning programs who  get more excited by spinning
> cubes than "hello world" and serves as a pedagogical tool for anyone
> interested in understanding the graphics pipeline in general, the OpenGL
> interface in particular, or just wants to try something quick and dirty
> without having to go through all the language issues such
> experimentation would otherwise involve.

I would strong recommend not creating a new language.  Very strongly. 
Having looked at many of the open source implementations of "logo", 
there's a lot of them that just take Logo turtle graphics, and then 
create what the author things is a simpler or easier-to-implement 
language.  I think this is a huge waste -- the languages are usually not 
easier to implement or program in than Logo.  (And I'm afraid I'd have 
to include Guido van Robot in this assessment)

You wouldn't necessarily have to use Logo -- though I think it is a very 
good language for this purpose -- but I think you should use an existing 
language (if not the implementation, then the basic syntax).

If you are interested in Logo, I'd be willing to mentor a project using 
PyLogo (pylogo.org).  The language is pretty much implemented -- I had 
thought about adding OO extensions (and the stuff in the repository may 
be mid-refactoring as a result), but it's not really that important. 
Most of the work would be in creating an interesting environment to work 
with (sprites and graphics and editors and all that), which might be 
what interests you about the project.

I imagine you could probably also find a PSF mentor for Guido van Robot, 
if you were interested in extending that environment.

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  / http://blog.ianbicking.org

From david.ascher at gmail.com  Sun Jun  5 02:50:49 2005
From: david.ascher at gmail.com (David Ascher)
Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 17:50:49 -0700
Subject: [summerofcode] Hi all.
Message-ID: <dd28fc2f05060417508fae5b6@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all.

1) I just realized that I was the admin on the list, but wasn't
subscribed.  I've scanned the archives, and haven't seen anything
important that wasn't answered.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

1.5) If someone would be willing to co-administer the mailing list
with me, the Python.org webmaster (Brad) would love to get out of it,
so let me know.

2) I'm the point of contact between the google admin folks and the
PSF.  That doesn't mean that I have any definite answers for anything
=).  I encourage people with questions to read in particular the FAQs
hosted by Google on the topic of the program.  If a question strikes
you as important and it isn't getting answered on the list, feel free
to contact me directly.

3) The PSF is a mentoring organization, but we have a lot of work to
do to figure out exactly how we're going to select the applicants (I
get the impression we'll have to be quite selective, as there are a
lot of applicants going in and only a fixed $ amount and only so many
mentoring time.

4) I expect that we'll have to setup another mailing list for
discussions of the applicants, restricted to PSF members and invited
guests (i.e. trusted mentors).

5) If you want to be a mentor and don't want to sign up in public
(e.g. on the wiki page to that effect:
http://wiki.python.org/moin/CodingProjectIdeas/MentorshipCoordination),
send me an email with the details (e.g. areas of expertise or
willingness to serve as a general mentor).

6) Any other ideas on how we can make this process as easy, fair, and
productive as possible?

That's all I can think of for now.

Cheers,

-- David

From lorentz at canterburytravel.com  Sat Jun  4 22:29:39 2005
From: lorentz at canterburytravel.com (Lorentz Morrow)
Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 15:29:39 -0500
Subject: [summerofcode] stdlib port to python
Message-ID: <200506041529.39798.lorentz@canterburytravel.com>

I'm interested in doing the port of stdlib to python.  If I'm understanding 
correctly you need a port of the following functions:
	atof, atoi, atol, ecvt, fcvt, itoa, ltoa, strtod, strtol, strtoul, ultoa,
	bsearch, lfind, lsearch, qsort, swab,
	abs, div, labs, ldiv
	calloc, free, malloc, realloc,
	abort, atexit, exit, getenv, putenv, system,

I don't see any problem with the first three lines of functions but I'm a 
little unsure about the last two.  Maybe I'm confused but wouldn't I need to 
have python make calls to the kernel to request memory allocation or process 
control? and won't that be OS specific?  Would it be sufficent to just write 
the port for one or two OSes?

If the person who posted this could suggestion could contact me with a little 
more specific information I would appreciate it.  Also, if I'm interpreting 
this SoC suggestion incorrectly would someone let me know.

-Lorentz

From bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU  Sun Jun  5 05:17:41 2005
From: bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU (Brett C.)
Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 20:17:41 -0700
Subject: [summerofcode] stdlib port to python
In-Reply-To: <200506041529.39798.lorentz@canterburytravel.com>
References: <200506041529.39798.lorentz@canterburytravel.com>
Message-ID: <42A26ED5.8070407@ocf.berkeley.edu>

Lorentz Morrow wrote:
> I'm interested in doing the port of stdlib to python.  If I'm understanding 
> correctly you need a port of the following functions:
> 	atof, atoi, atol, ecvt, fcvt, itoa, ltoa, strtod, strtol, strtoul, ultoa,
> 	bsearch, lfind, lsearch, qsort, swab,
> 	abs, div, labs, ldiv
> 	calloc, free, malloc, realloc,
> 	abort, atexit, exit, getenv, putenv, system,
> 

In what way do you mean by porting to Python?  To add these ISO C functions to
the stdlib so they are accessible in Python code?  If that is what you mean
then do realize that almost all of them are already available in the stdlib
(e.g. ``int("12345")``) or they are not needed (what purpose would malloc()
serve at the Python level?).

And obviously these are already available at the C level since Python requires
a C89 compiler.  A little clarification is needed to know what you are trying
to accomplish before any feedback can be given.

-Brett

From lorentz at canterburytravel.com  Sun Jun  5 01:40:04 2005
From: lorentz at canterburytravel.com (Lorentz Morrow)
Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 18:40:04 -0500
Subject: [summerofcode] stdlib port to python
In-Reply-To: <42A26ED5.8070407@ocf.berkeley.edu>
References: <200506041529.39798.lorentz@canterburytravel.com>
	<42A26ED5.8070407@ocf.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <200506041840.04484.lorentz@canterburytravel.com>

On Saturday 04 June 2005 10:17 pm, Brett C. wrote:
> Lorentz Morrow wrote:
> > I'm interested in doing the port of stdlib to python.  If I'm
> > understanding correctly you need a port of the following functions:
> > 	atof, atoi, atol, ecvt, fcvt, itoa, ltoa, strtod, strtol, strtoul,
> > ultoa, bsearch, lfind, lsearch, qsort, swab,
> > 	abs, div, labs, ldiv
> > 	calloc, free, malloc, realloc,
> > 	abort, atexit, exit, getenv, putenv, system,
>
> In what way do you mean by porting to Python?  To add these ISO C functions
> to the stdlib so they are accessible in Python code?  If that is what you
> mean then do realize that almost all of them are already available in the
> stdlib (e.g. ``int("12345")``) or they are not needed (what purpose would
> malloc() serve at the Python level?).
>
> And obviously these are already available at the C level since Python
> requires a C89 compiler.  A little clarification is needed to know what you
> are trying to accomplish before any feedback can be given.
>
> -Brett

I was reading the page http://wiki.python.org/moin/CodingProjectIdeas it says:
("	Port stdlib modules from C to Python
		Jython, IronPython, and PyPy all require standard library modules to be 
written in pure Python; porting C-based standard library modules to Python 
helps them.")
When I read it I was under the idea that someone affiliated with PSF in some 
way was making it as a suggestion.  Perhaps I misunderstand what it is 
saying.  Or since it is on a wiki page it has been added by someone who 
didn't really understand what they were suggesting.  Perhaps I should look 
into something else.

-Lorentz


From narayannewton at gmail.com  Sun Jun  5 06:51:32 2005
From: narayannewton at gmail.com (Narayan Newton)
Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 21:51:32 -0700
Subject: [summerofcode] FileSystemVirtualization - Ideas
Message-ID: <f6f81e8050604215115da1883@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all....


 I am looking to apply for implementing the "FileSystemVirtualization" 
project and would like some feedback on a couple ideas. I could see this 
project working two ways. The first would be fairly simple. It would involve 
creating a 'generic' class to represent a file system. For the sake of 
argument, lets call it the FileSystem class. (I am known for my original 
names) This class would have various methods defined that you need on a FS: 
write, read, listdir, open..etc. Children of this class would implement 
various types of file systems. For example, there could be a SvnFileSystem, 
CvsFileSystem, MySQLFileSystem...etc. These would each implement the class 
in whatever way they needed to make it work. This would allow programs to 
use many different file systems easily.

The other idea would be to build a full-scale vfs system. This would work in 
much the same way, except there would be a "master" class and a defined uri 
standard. For example, lets call our master class MasterFS (there's that 
naming skill again) and lets say the uri "cvs://" signifies a call to a cvs 
file system. When a program tries to open a file with a uri in the "cvs://" 
style, it would use a table to find the right FileSystem object to pass the 
request to. It might not even use a table...maybe just a defined rule for 
how to go from the uri to the right FS object. (For example, "cvs://" might 
translate to CvsFileSystem and "svn://" to SvnFileSystem) The advantage here 
is obviously that the type of file system would make no difference to the 
program.


 Anyway...any thoughts on this? The second idea would definitely be more 
"complete" and seems more attractive to me, but I wanted to see if anyone 
here had any opinions.


-- 
Narayan Newton
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From narayannewton at gmail.com  Sun Jun  5 06:55:14 2005
From: narayannewton at gmail.com (Narayan Newton)
Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 21:55:14 -0700
Subject: [summerofcode] stdlib port to python
In-Reply-To: <200506041840.04484.lorentz@canterburytravel.com>
References: <200506041529.39798.lorentz@canterburytravel.com>
	<42A26ED5.8070407@ocf.berkeley.edu>
	<200506041840.04484.lorentz@canterburytravel.com>
Message-ID: <f6f81e8050604215517a86c4c@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/4/05, Lorentz Morrow <lorentz at canterburytravel.com> wrote:
> 
> On Saturday 04 June 2005 10:17 pm, Brett C. wrote:
> > Lorentz Morrow wrote:
> > > I'm interested in doing the port of stdlib to python. If I'm
> > > understanding correctly you need a port of the following functions:
> > > atof, atoi, atol, ecvt, fcvt, itoa, ltoa, strtod, strtol, strtoul,
> > > ultoa, bsearch, lfind, lsearch, qsort, swab,
> > > abs, div, labs, ldiv
> > > calloc, free, malloc, realloc,
> > > abort, atexit, exit, getenv, putenv, system,
> >
> > In what way do you mean by porting to Python? To add these ISO C 
> functions
> > to the stdlib so they are accessible in Python code? If that is what you
> > mean then do realize that almost all of them are already available in 
> the
> > stdlib (e.g. ``int("12345")``) or they are not needed (what purpose 
> would
> > malloc() serve at the Python level?).
> >
> > And obviously these are already available at the C level since Python
> > requires a C89 compiler. A little clarification is needed to know what 
> you
> > are trying to accomplish before any feedback can be given.
> >
> > -Brett
> 
> I was reading the page http://wiki.python.org/moin/CodingProjectIdeas it 
> says:
> (" Port stdlib modules from C to Python
> Jython, IronPython, and PyPy all require standard library modules to be
> written in pure Python; porting C-based standard library modules to Python
> helps them.")
> When I read it I was under the idea that someone affiliated with PSF in 
> some
> way was making it as a suggestion. Perhaps I misunderstand what it is
> saying. Or since it is on a wiki page it has been added by someone who
> didn't really understand what they were suggesting. Perhaps I should look
> into something else.
> 
> -Lorentz
> 
> _______________________________________________
> summerofcode mailing list
> summerofcode at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/summerofcode
> 



I read that idea as porting the modules in the Python Standard Lib that are 
coded in C to straight python. Maybe I am wrong, but that would seem to make 
more sense then porting over stdlib.h. 

-- 
Narayan Newton
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From jmbrook2 at uncg.edu  Sun Jun  5 08:07:32 2005
From: jmbrook2 at uncg.edu (Jonathan M Brooks JMBROOK2)
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 02:07:32 -0400
Subject: [summerofcode] Jython projects -- porting IDLE to Jython/Swing
Message-ID: <OF0CBF3359.8E03F8BD-ON85257017.0021A61F-85257017.0021A632@uncg.edu>






I've put in an application for this one.  If there are other Jython
projects
that a mentor would recommend of this sort, please let me know.

 Jonathan M. Brooks
jmbrook2 at uncg.edu


From ianb at colorstudy.com  Sun Jun  5 09:15:33 2005
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 02:15:33 -0500
Subject: [summerofcode] stdlib port to python
In-Reply-To: <f6f81e8050604215517a86c4c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200506041529.39798.lorentz@canterburytravel.com>	<42A26ED5.8070407@ocf.berkeley.edu>	<200506041840.04484.lorentz@canterburytravel.com>
	<f6f81e8050604215517a86c4c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <42A2A695.4080609@colorstudy.com>

Narayan Newton wrote:
> I read that idea as porting the modules in the Python Standard Lib that 
> are coded in C to straight python. Maybe I am wrong, but that would seem 
> to make more sense then porting over stdlib.h.

That's right.  There's several modules, like I believe the sets module 
and datetime, that don't have Python versions (or those versions are not 
fully up to date with the C versions).  Porting these to Python is a 
request I've frequently heard from people involved in Jython, PyPy, and 
IronPython, when they are asked what someone can do to help the project.

I put it on the list, but I just did so because I know this is something 
other people have asked for.

-- 
Ian Bicking  /  ianb at colorstudy.com  / http://blog.ianbicking.org

From hpk at merlinux.de  Sun Jun  5 10:45:00 2005
From: hpk at merlinux.de (holger krekel)
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 10:45:00 +0200
Subject: [summerofcode] stdlib port to python
Message-ID: <20050605084500.GO5694@solar.trillke.net>

On Sun, Jun 05, 2005 at 02:15 -0500, Ian Bicking wrote:
> Narayan Newton wrote:
> > I read that idea as porting the modules in the Python Standard Lib that 
> > are coded in C to straight python. Maybe I am wrong, but that would seem 
> > to make more sense then porting over stdlib.h.
> 
> That's right.  There's several modules, like I believe the sets module 
> and datetime, that don't have Python versions (or those versions are not 
> fully up to date with the C versions).  Porting these to Python is a 
> request I've frequently heard from people involved in Jython, PyPy, and 
> IronPython, when they are asked what someone can do to help the project.
> 
> I put it on the list, but I just did so because I know this is something 
> other people have asked for.

right.  For PyPy (and for the other implementations, i guess), 
a starting point for reimplementing C-modules is 

    import sys
    print sys.builtin_module_names 

which lists some basic important modules implemented in C and
that the other python implementations need.  For PyPy,
probably most interesting is 're', i.e. a full python
implementation of regular expressions.  It would be good if
such an implementation would be reasonably statically written
because in PyPy we can translate such "restricted" python modules
to lower level code.   

A second approach to identifying module-to-be-reimplemented is 
to look into the 'Modules' sub directory of a CPython checkout/tree. 

However, before anyone submits a proposal for a specific
module to be reimplemented, it's good to suggest it here on
the list so we can make sure that it hasn't already been done.
(for example, in PyPy we have some ongoing work on '_codecs',
and of course 'exceptions' and '__builtin__' are already
done).   

cheers, 

    holger

From arigo at tunes.org  Sun Jun  5 13:25:55 2005
From: arigo at tunes.org (Armin Rigo)
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 13:25:55 +0200
Subject: [summerofcode] stdlib port to python
In-Reply-To: <20050605084500.GO5694@solar.trillke.net>
References: <20050605084500.GO5694@solar.trillke.net>
Message-ID: <20050605112555.GA7116@code1.codespeak.net>

Hi,

On Sun, Jun 05, 2005 at 10:45:00AM +0200, holger krekel wrote:
> > > I read that idea as porting the modules in the Python Standard Lib that 
> > > are coded in C to straight python. Maybe I am wrong, but that would seem 
> > > to make more sense then porting over stdlib.h.
> > 
> > That's right.  There's several modules, like I believe the sets module 
> > and datetime, that don't have Python versions (or those versions are not 
> > fully up to date with the C versions).

> However, before anyone submits a proposal for a specific
> module to be reimplemented, it's good to suggest it here on
> the list so we can make sure that it hasn't already been done.
> (for example, in PyPy we have some ongoing work on '_codecs',
> and of course 'exceptions' and '__builtin__' are already
> done).

Yes, let me add more emphasis to this paragraph: a number of modules
have already been found, updated, or reimplemented by someone around the
PyPy project (more than Holger's post can suggest): datetime, cmath,
decimal, _codecs, itertools, marshal, md5, operator, random, sha,
struct, unicodecodec, unicodedata, parser.  The job here would be to
pick another module and rewrite it in Python; some examples:

  _sre (regular expressions)
  zipimport
  array
  audioop
  binascii (partially done)
  collections
  imageop
  rgbimg

For the very motivated, it's also possible to provide a complete
re-implementation of functionality that is normally available as an
external library:

  bz2
  pyexpat
  readline
  zlib


A bientot,

Armin

From codedivine at gmail.com  Sun Jun  5 16:46:06 2005
From: codedivine at gmail.com (Rahul Garg)
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 10:46:06 -0400
Subject: [summerofcode] my project idea for soc
In-Reply-To: <a2f50cd05060506456182d516@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a2f50cd0506041453562a8dcc@mail.gmail.com>
	<42A22A67.6010302@colorstudy.com>
	<a2f50cd05060506456182d516@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a2f50cd050605074653ff5e03@mail.gmail.com>

Hi.
Thanks for your enlightening comments.

On 6/4/05, Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
> Hi Rahul.  It sounds like a very useful project.  Some comments:
>
> Rahul Garg wrote:
> > Hello People.
> > I have submitted a project idea for SOC. Your comments about it will be helpful.
> > I very much would like to work on this project regardless of SOC. So
> > if you are intersted in mentoring me about this one please let me
> > know! Some of the things and ideas required are especially complex and
> > I would be happy to receive help.
> > Second...i am currently doing an internship at a place where i have
> > python 2.3.3 installed and i dont have user permissions to install
> > python 2.4. the internship is till july 15. do you think my inability
> > to use python 2.4 till around july 20 can be a hindrance?
> > Rahul
>
> I don't think Python 2.4 changes anything very significant for this project.
>
> > Modified application (Third submission...second revised submission)
> >
> > Title : Python visual object inspector
> >
> > Details :
> >
> > We can make better use of dynamic nature of python as well as the
> > availability of tkinter in standard python distribution for a visual
> > object inspector. For example during debugging it will be helpful to
> > view an object.
>
> One thing you don't mention, but seems like an obvious aspect of this
> (and something you probably intend), is the ability to view and traverse
> Python frame objects.  In other words, view the frames in a traceback,
> and view the local variables in those frames.

I hadnt thought of that...but now it does seem obvious that it will be
highly useful.

> > Intended features:
> > 1.The view of an object must display the class , attributes and documentation.
>
> This sounds like an ideal place to use Adapters or generic functions, so
> that views can be implemented separately from the objects themselves.

> > 2.In absence of a view implementation by a class , the default
> > behaviour can be calling of view on attributes.
> > 3.String representation can be included.
> > 4.'Hyperlinks' to base classes should be provided.
>
> Another kind of traversal really -- objects contain references to their
> classes, classes contain references to their base classes, etc.  Still a
> lot of work to make that friendly, of course.
>
> > 5.String fields can be directly edited.
>
> Evaluating expressions in different contexts would generally be useful,
> and you'd get this ability for free (though without quite the same
> directed UI).

Yes...python really is dynamic!

> > 6.The view really enables visual programming to a certain extent.We
> > can even have a metaclass called viewable.We can register the creation
> > of viewable objects and can view the list of objects created so far.
> > So we get a complete snapshot of the program in a visual way.
>
> Right now it's challenging to manage and persist objects when you allow
> this kind of flexibility.  You can pickle objects, but you can't pickle
> code, so you'd have to create a whole new serialization process (maybe a
> hybrid of pickle and marshal).  An interesting task, but it should
> really be a step two -- there's already a lot of work in this project,
> and I think it would be more important to get that work nailed down first.

Hmm...you are correct. I should not be thinking  about registration of
instances at all (at this point anyway) , only of viewable classes
since that gives us almost all of what is useful and can be done in a
pythonic way. And i will search for similar projects in python.

sincerely,
Rahul

From mistobaan at gmail.com  Sun Jun  5 19:57:37 2005
From: mistobaan at gmail.com (Misto .)
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 19:57:37 +0200
Subject: [summerofcode] SpeedUpInterpreterStartup - IDEAS
In-Reply-To: <42A0F568.6070304@ocf.berkeley.edu>
References: <e437f2f05060303343adfa96a@mail.gmail.com>
	<42A0F568.6070304@ocf.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <e437f2f05060510573d7058f8@mail.gmail.com>

> Since I tossed up that idea I should probably reply to you.  =)

Thanks!
> 
> Sounds like a plan.  Easy way to test startup time is to execute Python under
> 'time' with nothing but 'pass' to be executed; ``time python -c "pass"``.

Ok that is the basic test.
I am tryng to obtain a precise profile of the time that each component
takes in being loaded.

Seems that this guy have something usefull

http://www.nickbastin.com/archives/000160.php

I'll try to contact him...

> That is probably a waste of time.  Psyco only tweaks the eval loop, nothing
> more.  And because Psyco is x86-only it won't work for Python itself since it
> needs to work with any C compiler with POSIX libraries.
Ah ok. Time gained.

> In other words any changes need to work with *all* platforms Python supports.
Ack!

> Martin v. L?wis and Nick Bastin worked on this at PyCon 2004.  They discovered
> that site.py was very costly to import (partially because of the distutils
> import).  After that some other modules that were imported were costly (I think
> 'warnings' was expensive to import since it is pure Python and uses the 're'
> module heavily).
Thanks for this!

> Any good ideas or material concerning the topic is welcome.

I have seen the patch that nick bastin has proposed.

https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=305470&aid=920509&group_id=5470

I'll try to hack a bit with this.
 
> Don't get to heavy into this, Misto.  
Don't worry. 
I think that speeding up Python is fundamental to improve the use of
this language.
I think that with a faster startup many little applications "type and
run" will be more
usefull.

> I don't want you to sent in a proposal
> and get rejected after a ton of work.  Unless of course you enjoy it!  If so,
> then go wild!  =)

I'll try to speed up the startup.
If the google team will accept me I will dedicate a good amount of my
summer time to accomplish the project.
Otherwise I'll spend more time in my italian summer house. :D

Misto

From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Sun Jun  5 20:35:33 2005
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 20:35:33 +0200
Subject: [summerofcode] FileSystemVirtualization - Ideas
In-Reply-To: <f6f81e8050604215115da1883@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f6f81e8050604215115da1883@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050605183533.GF15602@solar.trillke.net>

Hi Narayan, 

On Sat, Jun 04, 2005 at 21:51 -0700, Narayan Newton wrote:
>  I am looking to apply for implementing the "FileSystemVirtualization" 
> project and would like some feedback on a couple ideas. I could see this 
> project working two ways. The first would be fairly simple. It would involve 
> creating a 'generic' class to represent a file system. For the sake of 
> argument, lets call it the FileSystem class. (I am known for my original 
> names) This class would have various methods defined that you need on a FS: 
> write, read, listdir, open..etc. Children of this class would implement 
> various types of file systems. For example, there could be a SvnFileSystem, 
> CvsFileSystem, MySQLFileSystem...etc. These would each implement the class 
> in whatever way they needed to make it work. This would allow programs to 
> use many different file systems easily.

I like this idea. 

> The other idea would be to build a full-scale vfs system. This would work in 
> much the same way, except there would be a "master" class and a defined uri 
> standard.

I wouldn't neccessarily mixin URI schemes into the vfs idea.
It seems more important to have clear and documented semantics
at API level and to make sure (by writing lots of tests) that
the semantics work reasonably well across fileystem
implementations.   

Adding an URL scheme on top of such an API and its
implementations shouldn't be hard, though.  Btw, I don't see a
connection to inheritance requirements there.  It's surely possible
to just have a dictionary of scheme->urlhandler mappings
without requiring the 'urlhandler' to even be a class. 

cheers, 

    holger

From salma.dagli at gmail.com  Sun Jun  5 20:52:49 2005
From: salma.dagli at gmail.com (Salma Dagli)
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 00:22:49 +0530
Subject: [summerofcode] Info on MemoryUsageProfiler for Python
Message-ID: <ab064bbc0506051152388280f@mail.gmail.com>

While doing some research on previous work being done on this project
idea, I stumbled across Vladimir Marangozov's Memory Allocator and
also "a somewhat rough, but working memory profiler".
(http://starship.python.net/crew/vlad/pymalloc/). Do the Python
veterans here have any more info on this? And why was this not
incorporated into Python then?

Salma

From narayannewton at gmail.com  Sun Jun  5 21:13:37 2005
From: narayannewton at gmail.com (Narayan Newton)
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 12:13:37 -0700
Subject: [summerofcode] FileSystemVirtualization - Ideas
In-Reply-To: <20050605183533.GF15602@solar.trillke.net>
References: <f6f81e8050604215115da1883@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050605183533.GF15602@solar.trillke.net>
Message-ID: <f6f81e80506051213277d0d55@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/5/05, holger krekel <hpk at trillke.net> wrote:
> 
> Hi Narayan,
> 
> On Sat, Jun 04, 2005 at 21:51 -0700, Narayan Newton wrote:
> > I am looking to apply for implementing the "FileSystemVirtualization"
> > project and would like some feedback on a couple ideas. I could see this
> > project working two ways. The first would be fairly simple. It would 
> involve
> > creating a 'generic' class to represent a file system. For the sake of
> > argument, lets call it the FileSystem class. (I am known for my original
> > names) This class would have various methods defined that you need on a 
> FS:
> > write, read, listdir, open..etc. Children of this class would implement
> > various types of file systems. For example, there could be a 
> SvnFileSystem,
> > CvsFileSystem, MySQLFileSystem...etc. These would each implement the 
> class
> > in whatever way they needed to make it work. This would allow programs 
> to
> > use many different file systems easily.
> 
> I like this idea.
> 
> > The other idea would be to build a full-scale vfs system. This would 
> work in
> > much the same way, except there would be a "master" class and a defined 
> uri
> > standard.
> 
> I wouldn't neccessarily mixin URI schemes into the vfs idea.
> It seems more important to have clear and documented semantics
> at API level and to make sure (by writing lots of tests) that
> the semantics work reasonably well across fileystem
> implementations.
> 
> Adding an URL scheme on top of such an API and its
> implementations shouldn't be hard, though. Btw, I don't see a
> connection to inheritance requirements there. It's surely possible
> to just have a dictionary of scheme->urlhandler mappings
> without requiring the 'urlhandler' to even be a class.
> 
> cheers,
> 
> holger
> 

That was my concern with the second idea. While it seemed more 'complete', 
it also seemed like a bit too much. Defining a uri construct would probably 
not go over well with kde/gnome/etc and if it was left open, developers 
could create their own constructs that could map to the target environment. 
(GNOMEish one for GNOME, KDEish one for KDE). So ya...I think your right on 
the money there.

As for the inheritance, I was thinking that there would be some methods that 
every FS class should have, but are more convenience methods and would 
pretty much just be wrappers around other class methods. It would be nice to 
not have to write this for every FS class, just inherit them from the 
parent. 


-- 
Narayan Newton
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From narayannewton at gmail.com  Sun Jun  5 21:18:16 2005
From: narayannewton at gmail.com (Narayan Newton)
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 12:18:16 -0700
Subject: [summerofcode] FileSystemVirtualization - Ideas
In-Reply-To: <f6f81e80506051213277d0d55@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f6f81e8050604215115da1883@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050605183533.GF15602@solar.trillke.net>
	<f6f81e80506051213277d0d55@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f6f81e805060512182bfba7ba@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/5/05, Narayan Newton <narayannewton at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On 6/5/05, holger krekel <hpk at trillke.net> wrote:
> > 
> > Hi Narayan,
> > 
> > On Sat, Jun 04, 2005 at 21:51 -0700, Narayan Newton wrote:
> > > I am looking to apply for implementing the "FileSystemVirtualization"
> > > project and would like some feedback on a couple ideas. I could see 
> > this 
> > > project working two ways. The first would be fairly simple. It would 
> > involve
> > > creating a 'generic' class to represent a file system. For the sake of
> > > argument, lets call it the FileSystem class. (I am known for my 
> > original 
> > > names) This class would have various methods defined that you need on 
> > a FS:
> > > write, read, listdir, open..etc. Children of this class would 
> > implement
> > > various types of file systems. For example, there could be a 
> > SvnFileSystem, 
> > > CvsFileSystem, MySQLFileSystem...etc. These would each implement the 
> > class
> > > in whatever way they needed to make it work. This would allow programs 
> > to
> > > use many different file systems easily.
> > 
> > I like this idea.
> > 
> > > The other idea would be to build a full-scale vfs system. This would 
> > work in
> > > much the same way, except there would be a "master" class and a 
> > defined uri
> > > standard.
> > 
> > I wouldn't neccessarily mixin URI schemes into the vfs idea.
> > It seems more important to have clear and documented semantics
> > at API level and to make sure (by writing lots of tests) that
> > the semantics work reasonably well across fileystem 
> > implementations.
> > 
> > Adding an URL scheme on top of such an API and its
> > implementations shouldn't be hard, though. Btw, I don't see a
> > connection to inheritance requirements there. It's surely possible
> > to just have a dictionary of scheme->urlhandler mappings 
> > without requiring the 'urlhandler' to even be a class.
> > 
> > cheers,
> > 
> > holger
> > 
> 
> That was my concern with the second idea. While it seemed more 'complete', 
> it also seemed like a bit too much. Defining a uri construct would probably 
> not go over well with kde/gnome/etc and if it was left open, developers 
> could create their own constructs that could map to the target environment. 
> (GNOMEish one for GNOME, KDEish one for KDE). So ya...I think your right on 
> the money there.
> 
> As for the inheritance, I was thinking that there would be some methods 
> that every FS class should have, but are more convenience methods and would 
> pretty much just be wrappers around other class methods. It would be nice to 
> not have to write this for every FS class, just inherit them from the 
> parent. 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Narayan Newton 



Hah, scratch the last paragraph...I completely misread what you were saying 
there. Time for coffee....
-- 
Narayan Newton
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From hpk at trillke.net  Sun Jun  5 21:26:04 2005
From: hpk at trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 21:26:04 +0200
Subject: [summerofcode] FileSystemVirtualization - Ideas
In-Reply-To: <f6f81e80506051213277d0d55@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f6f81e8050604215115da1883@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050605183533.GF15602@solar.trillke.net>
	<f6f81e80506051213277d0d55@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050605192603.GH15602@solar.trillke.net>

On Sun, Jun 05, 2005 at 12:13 -0700, Narayan Newton wrote:
> As for the inheritance, I was thinking that there would be some methods that 
> every FS class should have, but are more convenience methods and would 
> pretty much just be wrappers around other class methods. 

Maybe.  IMO it makes sense to keep the lowlevel filesystem 
class/API _very_ minimal and with no fluff so that it is easy to 
implement a new backend.  You might be suprised how difficult it is 
to implement and test common semantics of just a few filesystem 
implementations especially when it comes to clean error 
conditions/uniform exception handling.  

> It would be nice to not have to write this for every FS
> class, just inherit them from the parent. 

Sure enough.  However, Filename and/or URI manipulations
should probably go at a separated layer (call it 'frontend' if
you like) that can make use of filesystem implementations
without a need to subclass.   

cheers, 

    holger

From narayannewton at gmail.com  Sun Jun  5 21:51:14 2005
From: narayannewton at gmail.com (Narayan Newton)
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 12:51:14 -0700
Subject: [summerofcode] FileSystemVirtualization - Ideas
In-Reply-To: <20050605192603.GH15602@solar.trillke.net>
References: <f6f81e8050604215115da1883@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050605183533.GF15602@solar.trillke.net>
	<f6f81e80506051213277d0d55@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050605192603.GH15602@solar.trillke.net>
Message-ID: <f6f81e8050605125119900ead@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/5/05, holger krekel <hpk at trillke.net> wrote:
> 
> On Sun, Jun 05, 2005 at 12:13 -0700, Narayan Newton wrote:
> > As for the inheritance, I was thinking that there would be some methods 
> that
> > every FS class should have, but are more convenience methods and would
> > pretty much just be wrappers around other class methods.
> 
> Maybe. IMO it makes sense to keep the lowlevel filesystem
> class/API _very_ minimal and with no fluff so that it is easy to
> implement a new backend. You might be suprised how difficult it is
> to implement and test common semantics of just a few filesystem
> implementations especially when it comes to clean error
> conditions/uniform exception handling.
> 
> > It would be nice to not have to write this for every FS
> > class, just inherit them from the parent.
> 
> Sure enough. However, Filename and/or URI manipulations
> should probably go at a separated layer (call it 'frontend' if
> you like) that can make use of filesystem implementations
> without a need to subclass.
> 
> cheers,
> 
> holger
> 

Agreed. I had misinterpreted what you said. :)


-- 
Narayan Newton
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From mwh at python.net  Sun Jun  5 23:09:21 2005
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 22:09:21 +0100
Subject: [summerofcode] stdlib port to python
In-Reply-To: <42A2A695.4080609@colorstudy.com> (Ian Bicking's message of
	"Sun, 05 Jun 2005 02:15:33 -0500")
References: <200506041529.39798.lorentz@canterburytravel.com>
	<42A26ED5.8070407@ocf.berkeley.edu>
	<200506041840.04484.lorentz@canterburytravel.com>
	<f6f81e8050604215517a86c4c@mail.gmail.com>
	<42A2A695.4080609@colorstudy.com>
Message-ID: <2mbr6kv7cu.fsf@starship.python.net>

Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> writes:

> That's right.  There's several modules, like I believe the sets module 
> and datetime, that don't have Python versions

Thse two would seem to be particularly odd examples to choose, given
that they were extensively prototyped in Python first (and indeed the
sets module still is in Python).

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  The snakes are optional, as are the electrodes, the molten lead
  and the ritual buggering by syphilitic warthogs. 
                                        -- Tanuki the Raccoon-dog, asr

From bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU  Mon Jun  6 01:13:21 2005
From: bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU (Brett C.)
Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 16:13:21 -0700
Subject: [summerofcode] FileSystemVirtualization - Ideas
In-Reply-To: <f6f81e8050604215115da1883@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f6f81e8050604215115da1883@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <42A38711.9080904@ocf.berkeley.edu>

Narayan Newton wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi all....
> 
> 
> I am looking to apply for implementing the "FileSystemVirtualization"
> project and would like some feedback on a couple ideas.
[SNIP]
> 
> Anyway...any thoughts on this? The second idea would definitely be more
> "complete" and seems more attractive to me, but I wanted to see if
> anyone here had any opinions.
> 

Just because I have not seen it mentioned (although I just added it to the
wiki) is to look at Tcl's virtual file system.

-Brett

From tali.wang at gmail.com  Mon Jun  6 02:33:19 2005
From: tali.wang at gmail.com (Linan Wang)
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 01:33:19 +0100
Subject: [summerofcode] idea of speedup interpreter startup
Message-ID: <abb391f80506051733184289fb@mail.gmail.com>

hi, everybody,

Let's go to the topic directly :)
I propose to use "lazy import" strategy to handle modula import. 
The term lazy here means import the compiled function's code only
before first using it. Sometimes we only use few functions/classes in
a module, but it seems we import all the compiled code when we do
importing. It's quite a waste of time and resource.
By introducing a function/class table at some place of compiled code,
we can import only the definition of the module. When before firing a
function in a module, interpreter does the real import action.

This idea maybe considered before and abandoned because of  the cost
of IO operation, rr, the implementation of lazy strategy for classes
import is a quite complex.

Does this idea make sense? Any mentors want to give me some ideas?
Thanks alot!

-- 
Wang
-----------------------------------------------
Email:tali.wang at gmail.com
Or: arp04lw at shef.ac.uk
-----------------------------------------------

From bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU  Mon Jun  6 05:47:29 2005
From: bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU (Brett C.)
Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 20:47:29 -0700
Subject: [summerofcode] idea of speedup interpreter startup
In-Reply-To: <abb391f80506051733184289fb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <abb391f80506051733184289fb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <42A3C751.6000402@ocf.berkeley.edu>

Linan Wang wrote:
> hi, everybody,
> 
> Let's go to the topic directly :)
> I propose to use "lazy import" strategy to handle modula import. 
> The term lazy here means import the compiled function's code only
> before first using it. Sometimes we only use few functions/classes in
> a module, but it seems we import all the compiled code when we do
> importing.

Right.  Even if you do ``from module import *`` the module still ends up in
sys.modules; you just specify what ends up in your namespace.

> It's quite a waste of time and resource.

Don't know if that is fair to say.  Remember that the initial importation
executes the module.  Also remember that 'class' and 'def' are statements;
Guido has stated multiple times they should be viewed as such.  So executing
the entire module, including 'class' and 'def' is not a waste since the
semantics are straight-forward to explain.

> By introducing a function/class table at some place of compiled code,
> we can import only the definition of the module. When before firing a
> function in a module, interpreter does the real import action.
> 

So like a proxy in the module type that, if a lookup fails, goes out to the
bytecode to load the code.  A table in the bytecode could specify offsets into
the bytecode, execute the code for the module attribute, and store the result
into the proxy.

> This idea maybe considered before and abandoned because of  the cost
> of IO operation, rr, the implementation of lazy strategy for classes
> import is a quite complex.
> 
> Does this idea make sense? Any mentors want to give me some ideas?
> Thanks alot!
> 

It makes sense, but I just wonder if it is worth the added complication.  It
might be a real boon, though.  Be interesting to find out which way it goes!

-Brett

From narayannewton at gmail.com  Mon Jun  6 06:58:03 2005
From: narayannewton at gmail.com (Narayan Newton)
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 21:58:03 -0700
Subject: [summerofcode] FileSystemVirtualization - Ideas
In-Reply-To: <42A38711.9080904@ocf.berkeley.edu>
References: <f6f81e8050604215115da1883@mail.gmail.com>
	<42A38711.9080904@ocf.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <f6f81e80506052158a97627@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/5/05, Brett C. <bac at ocf.berkeley.edu> wrote:
> 
> Narayan Newton wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi all....
> >
> >
> > I am looking to apply for implementing the "FileSystemVirtualization"
> > project and would like some feedback on a couple ideas.
> [SNIP]
> >
> > Anyway...any thoughts on this? The second idea would definitely be more
> > "complete" and seems more attractive to me, but I wanted to see if
> > anyone here had any opinions.
> >
> 
> Just because I have not seen it mentioned (although I just added it to the
> wiki) is to look at Tcl's virtual file system.
> 
> -Brett
> 

Tcl's vfs seems quite interesting. I notice that you can use it to treat a 
compressed archive as a file system, that would be exceptionally cool.

Anyway, thanks for the input guys (especially holger). I have a pretty clear 
picture of what I am going to propose now.


-- 
Narayan Newton
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From andreasp+summerofcode at qbcon.com  Mon Jun  6 14:30:05 2005
From: andreasp+summerofcode at qbcon.com (Andreas Pauley)
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 14:30:05 +0200 (SAST)
Subject: [summerofcode] Point of Sale Project
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0506061330260.11316@skywalker.lan.qbcon.com>

Hi,

I would like to enter my Python-based Point of Sale into the Google Summer 
of Code.

Is such a project suitable for the summer of code?

Apart from the application form at 
http://code.google.com/soc_application.html there seems to be an 
application template as well.
Should this also be completed, and where would I send it to?

I am currently a part-time student at the University of South Africa, but 
I'm also employed at a company. I couldn't gather from Google's FAQ that 
part-time students weren't eligible, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Regards,
Andreas Pauley 
http://qualitypos.qbcon.com/

From news4vovan at mail.ru  Mon Jun  6 14:22:20 2005
From: news4vovan at mail.ru (Vladimir Sukhoy)
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 16:22:20 +0400
Subject: [summerofcode] SoC proposal: proactive I/O in python
Message-ID: <E1DfGcW-00059K-00.news4vovan-mail-ru@f34.mail.ru>

The proposed goal is to bring cross-platform proactive I/O capabilities to Python.

Proactive I/O model is an alternative way to fix I/O bottlenecks without 
multithreading (real multithreading is even more complex in Python, because of Global
Interpreter Lock (GIL) and should be implemented with different processes).

Usual I/O is done in following way:
1. Find a moment when it is possible to do I/O operation (read(), write())
2. Do it synchronously.

Proactive I/O is another thing:
1. Asynchronous operations are started by the application on several I/O handles
without a need to wait when they are completed.
2. As each operation completes, OS calls appropriate completion handler that 
processes the result of the operation (success or failure and the data being delivered).

Proative I/O model is may be implemented with "overlapped" I/O on Windows (NT 4.0 or higher)
and AIO family of functions of POSIX.4 Realtime Extension Standard, on platforms that
implement it (including HP-UX, IRIX, Linux, LynxOS, and Solaris).

ACE Library  provides Proactor pattern implementation, which makes cross-platform proactive I/O
possible (http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/ACE.html).

As far as I know, there is no well-known python library which provides proactive I/O (except pywin32, 
but it's too low-level, essentially a C-interfaces ported to python), so this
project intends to build one that will become flexible and convenient :)

Please, let me know if this project may be eligible for the summer of code contest.
 


From tobivollebregt at gmail.com  Mon Jun  6 15:29:53 2005
From: tobivollebregt at gmail.com (Tobi Vollebregt)
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 15:29:53 +0200
Subject: [summerofcode] Memory usage tool
Message-ID: <49245929050606062957633855@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I read on your summer of code ideas webpage that there's some need for
a tool in python to keep track of the memory used by the interpreted
programs.

I wonder if I understand it correctly:

The goal of the project would be to change the python interpreter
(written in C?) to keep track of all objects created via the
interpreted code as well as memory allocated by C modules used by this
code.

Is this correct?

And what about the way this information is passed to the user? Would
the goal be a tool which just prints out warnings on console or in a
log file about circular references and memory leaks? Or would it be
something were a diagram could be drawn at any moment during program
flow of all allocated objects and the references between them?

And does it matter if I don't know python yet? I'll try to learn it
very soon if I apply of course.

thanks in advance,

Tobi Vollebregt

From mark.dufour at gmail.com  Mon Jun  6 15:32:40 2005
From: mark.dufour at gmail.com (Mark Dufour)
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 15:32:40 +0200
Subject: [summerofcode] proposal for developing a python-to-c++ compiler
Message-ID: <8180ef690506060632a6c6401@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all!

I wasn't sure at first how to go about applying for the summer of code
(what a great idea!), so I sent the following proposal via the
application page. I would have preferred to only come out with my
project at a point where I'd have it working well for 'largish'
programs, but I guess I'm a sucker for money like the next guy.

I would be interested to hear your opinions on the idea, and on
whether you think it would be appropriate for the summer of code. I am
fully aware that it is a more experimental (academic if you will)
exercise than most, if not all, of the other Python proposals. I also
know about the other approaches that are under development, with the
aim of running Python code more efficiently (Parrot, Starkiller.)
Finally, I also agree that the best long term solution is probably a
good JIT-compiler, as it has the potential of supporting the full
Python language.

Here is the text I sent to Google. I would be happy to explain or
discuss any part of it.

===

As part of my Master's Thesis, I am working on a 
Python-to-C++ compilation system. Apart from the 
basics, the following analyses more or less work well:

- Static type inference, using the Cartesian Product 
Algorithm as well as single-level class duplication in 
order to get good precision.

- Conversion to virtual calls in case of class 
hierarchies; polymorphic inline caching for really 
polymorphic types.

- Converting heap allocation into stack- or static 
pre-allocation, by using a simple escape analysis and 
looking at the static call graph enabled by type inference.

- Working out bounds on strings, so that the precision 
damage of reflection on type inference is better 
contained. 

- Support for many Python constructs, such as List 
Comprehensions, first-class class and function objects, 
dictionaries, Sets, varargs, etc.

- Analyzing internal types of short tuples (useful for 
syntactically intermediate tuples, which are used often 
in Python.)

- Unboxing of integer and floating-point types, as well 
as using 0-pointers for None, if there is no confusion. 

- Considering run-time type checks such as 'isinstance' 
during type inference.

Being short on cash, extra money would enable me to 
spend the summer working full-time on implementing new 
features, and continue to work full-time on the project 
for at least some months after I graduate. As for the 
summer, it would enable me to at least implement the 
following modifications:

- Extend the Cartesian Product Algorithm to become 
data-adaptive, in other words, to not separately 
analyze the same functions over and over again for 
essentially the same argument types.

- Extend single-level class duplication to also 
consider duplicated allocation sites, to an arbitrary 
depth. This requires a data-adaptive approach as 
described, to keep it efficient.

- Make it possible to detect parameterizable types, and 
based on this, automatically convert them to C++ 
generics of any complexity.

- Integrate with an existing C++ garbage collector, to 
clean up objects that could not be stack- or statically 
preallocated.

These modifications are all necessary for efficiently 
bootstrapping the compiler. I would also like to work 
on the many small details that are additionally 
required for this to be possible (e.g. hashing and deep 
copying of objects, handling library calls, lots of 
debugging.) However, because of the huge effort 
involved, bootstrapping will probably not be possible 
before the end of summer.

Before I started hacking a few months ago, I wrote a 
survey called 'Efficient implementation of modern 
imperative languages; application to Python'. It 
describes most of the terms I have used here, and 
contains about 70 references. It is located at 
http://kascade.org/optimizing_python.pdf. Thanks!

===


Mark Dufour.
-- 
if vars: self.output('; '.join([self.nodetype(var)+' '+name for
(name,var) in vars.items()])+';')

From cpp at vip.163.com  Mon Jun  6 16:53:01 2005
From: cpp at vip.163.com (Liu Jin)
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 22:53:01 +0800
Subject: [summerofcode] logging in standard library
Message-ID: <uu0kbk04y.fsf@vip.163.com>

Hi,

I'm quite interested in PEP 337: Logging Usage in the Standard
Library, and here is my question:

The PEP prosopals 'print' and 'sys.stdout.write' to be replaced with
'_log.{debug|info}', but

1 shouldn't it be {warning|error|critical}?

2 and in addition to logging errors, should we always log important
  data (such as http header in urllib2)? As I understand it, if it's
  logged as DEBUG or INFO, it won't hurt performance unless logging
  level is explicitly set to DEBUG/INFO. When using urllib2 I had to
  inspect its internal with debugger if something goes wrong. With
  logging things would be much easier.

Regards,
Liu Jin


From email2roy at gmail.com  Mon Jun  6 18:48:18 2005
From: email2roy at gmail.com (Roy Chan)
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 12:48:18 -0400
Subject: [summerofcode] Summer of Code Application - Java Swing IDEL for
	Jython
Message-ID: <9717f0770506060948594e432@mail.gmail.com>

To whom it may concern.

My name is Roy Chan and I have applied to the Google Summer of Code. I am 
interested in the project about the IDLE for Jython. Below is my proposal 
about the tool.

Swing Based IDLE for Jython
===========================
IDLE is a nice environment for Python, Jython should have something like 
that too. There are already a number of exiting environments for Jython (e.g. 
wsadmin from IBM for Websphere administation.), but it is Tcl/Tk based.

There is 2 ways to make a IDLE for Jython. Either use Java swing to 
communicate to existing IDLE(Tcl/Tk) or use Java swing to communicate to the 
interpreter. The later one definitely is a better solution, for it is less 
over head and it is in pure Java.

To implement such a environment will make Jython a much easier language to 
develop and debug.

Initial idea of the design is to allow user to do the same thing on the 
swing GUI as in the IDEL. Command will be fired whenever user hit enter. 
Event Linstener will send Jython line to the background and execute with the 
Jython class(es).

Most the IDEL features should be reserved in the swing GUI, such as, syntax 
colour, save files. All these can be done easily in Swing. Debugger would be 
a challenge, since you have to have to windows communicate between each 
others and you need to gather all system information and display it on the 
debugger. A easier swing way is to have the debugger in the same windows and 
display is side by side with the command input area.

Other bonus features can be:
1. Save clean jython code into file (i.e. only save all command that 
executed successfully)
2. Taking advantage of existing OpneSource IDE(e.g. Netbeans, Eclipse), 
write the plugin only instead of the whole GUI
3. Config file of the Swing IDEL is portable (e.g. in xml format), make it 
easier for user to program anytime anywhere.

Installation Feature
 In order to help beginner, the installation should be user friendly. Ideal 
installer should detect java installation directoy, provide clear 
instructions. Command line one is a must, a swing one is nice to have (we 
are using swing anyway). Wizard type of installer like BEA Weblogic 
Configuration wizard is a nice and clear one. If time allows the installer 
should provide both command line and swing GUI. (e.g. execute 
install_jython_idel.sh [-console|-swing])

If a swing installer exist, it can be called from Java Web Start, which 
makes everything even simpler and easier for non-programmer/new developer

Please also refer to the link http://wiki.python.org/moin/JythonProjects

My Background
=============
I have just graduated this term and I am still taking courses in University 
of Toronto to upgrade my degree to H.BSc.
I have been worked at Sun Microsystems of Canada Inc. as a Web 
Developer(Intern) then Sr. Web Developer(Intern) in 2003 to 2004. It gives 
me not only the technical skill but also experience in working as a team and 
communicate with other team member clearly over the world.
I have extensive experience in Java and Shell scripting. I started learning 
Python/Jython last year and I really like it for it is simple and easy to 
use.

Please consider my application and feel free to contact me at (
email2roy at gmail.com) to discuss about my application. 

Thanks!!

Yours Sincerely,
Roy Chan

(This project description has been submitted to the Google Summer of Code)
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From Fernando.Perez at colorado.edu  Mon Jun  6 20:56:48 2005
From: Fernando.Perez at colorado.edu (Fernando Perez)
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 12:56:48 -0600
Subject: [summerofcode] Python notebook project updated
Message-ID: <42A49C70.40807@colorado.edu>

Hi all,

in case anyone had looked at this before:

http://wiki.python.org/moin/NotebookInterfaceForIpython

or if applications have already been sent for it, please note that I've 
changed the description a fair bit, targetting it a bit differently. 
The PDF linked to at

http://ipython.scipy.org/google_soc

contains expanded details.

Cheers,

f

From McGrews3 at pacbell.net  Tue Jun  7 02:08:59 2005
From: McGrews3 at pacbell.net (Justin McGrew)
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 17:08:59 -0700
Subject: [summerofcode] Interest in one of the suggested projects
Message-ID: <42A4E59B.4030708@pacbell.net>

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From Fernando.Perez at colorado.edu  Tue Jun  7 02:14:33 2005
From: Fernando.Perez at colorado.edu (Fernando Perez)
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 18:14:33 -0600
Subject: [summerofcode] Multiple applicants?
Message-ID: <42A4E6E9.6030809@colorado.edu>

Hi all,

I've already had several students contact me expressing interest in the 
IPython-related project.  So far I've told them to just apply, hoping 
that more competition will mean the best is selected (if any).  Is this 
the right thing to do?  Or should I be doing some kind of vetting myself?

best,

f

From david.ascher at gmail.com  Tue Jun  7 02:16:27 2005
From: david.ascher at gmail.com (David Ascher)
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 17:16:27 -0700
Subject: [summerofcode] Multiple applicants?
In-Reply-To: <42A4E6E9.6030809@colorado.edu>
References: <42A4E6E9.6030809@colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <dd28fc2f05060617166136964b@mail.gmail.com>

> I've already had several students contact me expressing interest in the
> IPython-related project.  So far I've told them to just apply, hoping
> that more competition will mean the best is selected (if any).  Is this
> the right thing to do?  

Yup

> Or should I be doing some kind of vetting myself?

I wouldn't.

Note that it's possible that several people would be accepted for
similar projects.  Duplication isn't necessarily a disqualifier.

--david

From tali.wang at gmail.com  Tue Jun  7 03:38:51 2005
From: tali.wang at gmail.com (Linan Wang)
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 02:38:51 +0100
Subject: [summerofcode] idea of speedup interpreter startup
In-Reply-To: <42A3C751.6000402@ocf.berkeley.edu>
References: <abb391f80506051733184289fb@mail.gmail.com>
	<42A3C751.6000402@ocf.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <abb391f8050606183852cebf7b@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks.
I'm looking into the source code, try to figure out things like frame,
code, node :)
Just like what you said, a proxy with a pool seems to be a plan. 
>From python code to frame, each convert creat a gap. Is it possible to
create a pool for all gaps?

I think the lazy importation may cause one problem that not all the
code will be compiled after a script executed. For a module, if not
all the codes compiled, how to generate .pyc file?


On 6/6/05, Brett C. <bac at ocf.berkeley.edu> wrote:
> Linan Wang wrote:
> > hi, everybody,
> >
> > Let's go to the topic directly :)
> > I propose to use "lazy import" strategy to handle modula import.
> > The term lazy here means import the compiled function's code only
> > before first using it. Sometimes we only use few functions/classes in
> > a module, but it seems we import all the compiled code when we do
> > importing.
> 
> Right.  Even if you do ``from module import *`` the module still ends up in
> sys.modules; you just specify what ends up in your namespace.
> 
> > It's quite a waste of time and resource.
> 
> Don't know if that is fair to say.  Remember that the initial importation
> executes the module.  Also remember that 'class' and 'def' are statements;
> Guido has stated multiple times they should be viewed as such.  So executing
> the entire module, including 'class' and 'def' is not a waste since the
> semantics are straight-forward to explain.
> 
> > By introducing a function/class table at some place of compiled code,
> > we can import only the definition of the module. When before firing a
> > function in a module, interpreter does the real import action.
> >
> 
> So like a proxy in the module type that, if a lookup fails, goes out to the
> bytecode to load the code.  A table in the bytecode could specify offsets into
> the bytecode, execute the code for the module attribute, and store the result
> into the proxy.
> 
> > This idea maybe considered before and abandoned because of  the cost
> > of IO operation, rr, the implementation of lazy strategy for classes
> > import is a quite complex.
> >
> > Does this idea make sense? Any mentors want to give me some ideas?
> > Thanks alot!
> >
> 
> It makes sense, but I just wonder if it is worth the added complication.  It
> might be a real boon, though.  Be interesting to find out which way it goes!
> 
> -Brett
> 


-- 
Wang
-----------------------------------------------
Email:tali.wang at gmail.com
Or: arp04lw at shef.ac.uk
Mobile:+44-7760-338-932
-----------------------------------------------

From bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU  Tue Jun  7 04:56:10 2005
From: bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU (Brett C.)
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 19:56:10 -0700
Subject: [summerofcode] idea of speedup interpreter startup
In-Reply-To: <abb391f8050606183852cebf7b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <abb391f80506051733184289fb@mail.gmail.com>	
	<42A3C751.6000402@ocf.berkeley.edu>
	<abb391f8050606183852cebf7b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <42A50CCA.7070702@ocf.berkeley.edu>

Linan Wang wrote:
> Thanks.
> I'm looking into the source code, try to figure out things like frame,
> code, node :)
> Just like what you said, a proxy with a pool seems to be a plan. 
>>From python code to frame, each convert creat a gap. Is it possible to
> create a pool for all gaps?
> 

Don't know what you mean by "gap".

> I think the lazy importation may cause one problem that not all the
> code will be compiled after a script executed. For a module, if not
> all the codes compiled, how to generate .pyc file?
> 

If you are asking how the interpreter does it, it is automatic after
importation.  If you are asking how you can do it specificaly, use py_compile
(especially with ``-m`` on the command-line).

-Brett

From bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU  Tue Jun  7 04:57:53 2005
From: bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU (Brett C.)
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 19:57:53 -0700
Subject: [summerofcode] Point of Sale Project
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0506061330260.11316@skywalker.lan.qbcon.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0506061330260.11316@skywalker.lan.qbcon.com>
Message-ID: <42A50D31.1070302@ocf.berkeley.edu>

Andreas Pauley wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I would like to enter my Python-based Point of Sale into the Google Summer 
> of Code.
> 
> Is such a project suitable for the summer of code?
> 

The SoC is open to any open source project.

> Apart from the application form at 
> http://code.google.com/soc_application.html there seems to be an 
> application template as well.
> Should this also be completed, and where would I send it to?
> 
> I am currently a part-time student at the University of South Africa, but 
> I'm also employed at a company. I couldn't gather from Google's FAQ that 
> part-time students weren't eligible, but please correct me if I'm wrong.
> 

These are all technical application issues best answered by Google.  If you
can't figure out the best way to answer it then post to the summer-discuss
newsgroup linked from Google's SoC page to get answers.

-Brett

From bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU  Tue Jun  7 04:59:44 2005
From: bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU (Brett C.)
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 19:59:44 -0700
Subject: [summerofcode] SoC proposal: proactive I/O in python
In-Reply-To: <E1DfGcW-00059K-00.news4vovan-mail-ru@f34.mail.ru>
References: <E1DfGcW-00059K-00.news4vovan-mail-ru@f34.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <42A50DA0.8010707@ocf.berkeley.edu>

Vladimir Sukhoy wrote:
> The proposed goal is to bring cross-platform proactive I/O capabilities to Python.
> 
> Proactive I/O model is an alternative way to fix I/O bottlenecks without 
> multithreading (real multithreading is even more complex in Python, because of Global
> Interpreter Lock (GIL) and should be implemented with different processes).
> 
> Usual I/O is done in following way:
> 1. Find a moment when it is possible to do I/O operation (read(), write())
> 2. Do it synchronously.
> 
> Proactive I/O is another thing:
> 1. Asynchronous operations are started by the application on several I/O handles
> without a need to wait when they are completed.
> 2. As each operation completes, OS calls appropriate completion handler that 
> processes the result of the operation (success or failure and the data being delivered).
> 
> Proative I/O model is may be implemented with "overlapped" I/O on Windows (NT 4.0 or higher)
> and AIO family of functions of POSIX.4 Realtime Extension Standard, on platforms that
> implement it (including HP-UX, IRIX, Linux, LynxOS, and Solaris).
> 
> ACE Library  provides Proactor pattern implementation, which makes cross-platform proactive I/O
> possible (http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/ACE.html).
> 
> As far as I know, there is no well-known python library which provides proactive I/O (except pywin32, 
> but it's too low-level, essentially a C-interfaces ported to python), so this
> project intends to build one that will become flexible and convenient :)
> 
> Please, let me know if this project may be eligible for the summer