Mailman 3 Pylint path issues - code-quality

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Kyrian Okoroama

8 Sep 2017 8 Sep '17

1:10 p.m.

Hi there I am totally new to programming language. However I am running the online free course on Alison on Python programming language, which I have installed according to instructions on the video but I having issues Debugging my first Hello World script.see attached files kindly help. Kyrian Okoroama .C.

Attachments:

helloworld.py (text/plain — 21 bytes)
screenshot.PNG (image/png — 82.5 KB)
attachment.htm (text/html — 923 bytes)

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Ian Stapleton Cordasco

8 Sep 8 Sep

2:09 p.m.

Your IDE does not seem to be able to find where you installed Python. This has nothing to do with pylint Sent from my phone with my typo-happy thumbs. Please excuse my brevity On Sep 8, 2017 09:06, "Kyrian Okoroama via code-quality" < code-quality@python.org> wrote:

...

Hi there

I am totally new to programming language. However I am running the online free course on Alison on Python programming language, which I have installed according to instructions on the video but I having issues Debugging my first Hello World script. see attached files

kindly help.

*Kyrian Okoroama .C.*

_______________________________________________ code-quality mailing list code-quality@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/code-quality

Peter Bittner

3:49 p.m.

Do you have Bash (a GNU/Linux shell) on your Windows machine? If that's the case start the Bash terminal application and type "python". Python should already be installed and easily accessible there from any directory. Peter 2017-09-08 16:09 GMT+02:00 Ian Stapleton Cordasco :

...

Your IDE does not seem to be able to find where you installed Python. This has nothing to do with pylint

Sent from my phone with my typo-happy thumbs. Please excuse my brevity

On Sep 8, 2017 09:06, "Kyrian Okoroama via code-quality" wrote:

...
Hi there

I am totally new to programming language. However I am running the online free course on Alison on Python programming language, which I have installed according to instructions on the video but I having issues Debugging my first Hello World script. see attached files

kindly help.

Kyrian Okoroama .C.

_______________________________________________ code-quality mailing list code-quality@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/code-quality

_______________________________________________ code-quality mailing list code-quality@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/code-quality

Kyrian Okoroama

4:19 p.m.

Hi No I do not have those. Should I install them or one? Kyrian Okoroama .C. On ‎Friday‎, ‎September‎ ‎8‎, ‎2017‎ ‎05‎:‎50‎:‎31‎ ‎PM‎ ‎CEST, Peter Bittner wrote: Do you have Bash (a GNU/Linux shell) on your Windows machine? If that's the case start the Bash terminal application and type "python". Python should already be installed and easily accessible there from any directory. Peter 2017-09-08 16:09 GMT+02:00 Ian Stapleton Cordasco :

...

Your IDE does not seem to be able to find where you installed Python. This has nothing to do with pylint

Sent from my phone with my typo-happy thumbs. Please excuse my brevity

On Sep 8, 2017 09:06, "Kyrian Okoroama via code-quality" wrote:

...
Hi there

I am totally new to programming language. However I am running the online free course on Alison on Python programming language, which I have installed according to instructions on the video but I having issues Debugging my first Hello World script. see attached files

kindly help.

Kyrian Okoroama .C.

_______________________________________________ code-quality mailing list code-quality@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/code-quality

_______________________________________________ code-quality mailing list code-quality@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/code-quality

Peter Bittner

4:25 p.m.

If you can get hold of a computer running GNU/Linux, e.g. a machine running an Ubuntu desktop, that would be ideal. Windows is not ideal for developing software (well, that's my personal opinion). Especially the path issues you don't have on other systems. In my experience you have everything easily at hand with a GNU/Linux system. Ubuntu or Mint are lovely and very popular. Even a Mac is better suited, though that requires some hacking (installing a a package manager) to set more potential free. Try them, it will make your life so much easier. Peter 2017-09-08 18:19 GMT+02:00 Kyrian Okoroama :

...

Hi

No I do not have those.

Should I install them or one?

Kyrian Okoroama .C.

On ‎Friday‎, ‎September‎ ‎8‎, ‎2017‎ ‎05‎:‎50‎:‎31‎ ‎PM‎ ‎CEST, Peter Bittner wrote:

Do you have Bash (a GNU/Linux shell) on your Windows machine?

If that's the case start the Bash terminal application and type "python". Python should already be installed and easily accessible there from any directory.

Peter

2017-09-08 16:09 GMT+02:00 Ian Stapleton Cordasco :

...
Your IDE does not seem to be able to find where you installed Python. This has nothing to do with pylint

Sent from my phone with my typo-happy thumbs. Please excuse my brevity

On Sep 8, 2017 09:06, "Kyrian Okoroama via code-quality" wrote:

...
Hi there

I am totally new to programming language. However I am running the online free course on Alison on Python programming language, which I have installed according to instructions on the video but I having issues Debugging my first Hello World script. see attached files

kindly help.

Kyrian Okoroama .C.

_______________________________________________ code-quality mailing list code-quality@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/code-quality

...
...
_______________________________________________ code-quality mailing list code-quality@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/code-quality

Ian Stapleton Cordasco

9 Sep 9 Sep

1:07 p.m.

Windows is a fine developer environment and consistently getting better. Let's not discourage people from learning to cure on the operating systems they're already comfortable with. If you can't help them, don't try to make them learn yet another thing as a barrier to learning Python Sent from my phone with my typo-happy thumbs. Please excuse my brevity On Sep 8, 2017 11:31, "Peter Bittner" wrote:

...

If you can get hold of a computer running GNU/Linux, e.g. a machine running an Ubuntu desktop, that would be ideal.

Windows is not ideal for developing software (well, that's my personal opinion). Especially the path issues you don't have on other systems. In my experience you have everything easily at hand with a GNU/Linux system. Ubuntu or Mint are lovely and very popular. Even a Mac is better suited, though that requires some hacking (installing a a package manager) to set more potential free. Try them, it will make your life so much easier.

Peter

2017-09-08 18:19 GMT+02:00 Kyrian Okoroama :

...
Hi

No I do not have those.

Should I install them or one?

Kyrian Okoroama .C.

On ‎Friday‎, ‎September‎ ‎8‎, ‎2017‎ ‎05‎:‎50‎:‎31‎ ‎PM‎ ‎CEST, Peter Bittner wrote:

Do you have Bash (a GNU/Linux shell) on your Windows machine?

If that's the case start the Bash terminal application and type "python". Python should already be installed and easily accessible there from any directory.

Peter

2017-09-08 16:09 GMT+02:00 Ian Stapleton Cordasco :

...
Your IDE does not seem to be able to find where you installed Python. This has nothing to do with pylint

Sent from my phone with my typo-happy thumbs. Please excuse my brevity

On Sep 8, 2017 09:06, "Kyrian Okoroama via code-quality" wrote:

...
Hi there

I am totally new to programming language. However I am running the

online

...
free course on Alison on Python programming language, which I have installed according to instructions on the video but I having issues Debugging my first Hello World script. see attached files

kindly help.

Kyrian Okoroama .C.

_______________________________________________ code-quality mailing list code-quality@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/code-quality

...
...
_______________________________________________ code-quality mailing list code-quality@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/code-quality

code-quality mailing list code-quality@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/code-quality

Dan Stromberg

4:30 p.m.

Windows improves somewhat in areas where it has a strong competitor. It lies fallow in areas where it has a majority of the marketshare. Windows is usable, but it's 3rd-rate software, after Linux and macOS. We should consider assisting Windows users on Windows, but there's nothing wrong with also reminding them that there are better alternatives available. On Sat, Sep 9, 2017 at 6:07 AM, Ian Stapleton Cordasco < graffatcolmingov@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Windows is a fine developer environment and consistently getting better. Let's not discourage people from learning to cure on the operating systems they're already comfortable with. If you can't help them, don't try to make them learn yet another thing as a barrier to learning Python

Sent from my phone with my typo-happy thumbs. Please excuse my brevity

On Sep 8, 2017 11:31, "Peter Bittner" wrote:

...
If you can get hold of a computer running GNU/Linux, e.g. a machine running an Ubuntu desktop, that would be ideal.

Windows is not ideal for developing software (well, that's my personal opinion). Especially the path issues you don't have on other systems. In my experience you have everything easily at hand with a GNU/Linux system. Ubuntu or Mint are lovely and very popular. Even a Mac is better suited, though that requires some hacking (installing a a package manager) to set more potential free. Try them, it will make your life so much easier.

Peter

2017-09-08 18:19 GMT+02:00 Kyrian Okoroama :

...
Hi

No I do not have those.

Should I install them or one?

Kyrian Okoroama .C.

On ‎Friday‎, ‎September‎ ‎8‎, ‎2017‎ ‎05‎:‎50‎:‎31‎ ‎PM‎ ‎CEST, Peter Bittner wrote:

Do you have Bash (a GNU/Linux shell) on your Windows machine?

If that's the case start the Bash terminal application and type "python". Python should already be installed and easily accessible there from any directory.

Peter

2017-09-08 16:09 GMT+02:00 Ian Stapleton Cordasco :

...
Your IDE does not seem to be able to find where you installed Python. This has nothing to do with pylint

Sent from my phone with my typo-happy thumbs. Please excuse my brevity

On Sep 8, 2017 09:06, "Kyrian Okoroama via code-quality" wrote:

...
Hi there

I am totally new to programming language. However I am running the

online

...
free course on Alison on Python programming language, which I have installed according to instructions on the video but I having issues Debugging my first Hello World script. see attached files

kindly help.

Kyrian Okoroama .C.

_______________________________________________ code-quality mailing list code-quality@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/code-quality

...
...
_______________________________________________ code-quality mailing list code-quality@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/code-quality

code-quality mailing list code-quality@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/code-quality

_______________________________________________ code-quality mailing list code-quality@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/code-quality

-- Dan Stromberg

Ian Stapleton Cordasco

7:25 p.m.

On Sat, Sep 9, 2017 at 11:30 AM, Dan Stromberg wrote:

...

Windows improves somewhat in areas where it has a strong competitor.

It lies fallow in areas where it has a majority of the marketshare.

Windows is usable, but it's 3rd-rate software, after Linux and macOS.

We should consider assisting Windows users on Windows, but there's nothing wrong with also reminding them that there are better alternatives available.

There's a difference between someone who comes to this list saying "I'm trying to run Pylint from my editor and I've followed some instructions for getting set up on Windows. Does anyone know why it doesn't work?" And someone saying "Hey, I'm having trouble doing python development on Windows. Is writing Python on Windows so awful I should switch to something else?" What we have here is someone asking the first question and getting an answer to the second question. In other words, you're telling the person that in order for them to develop software in Python they must use Linux (or a worst buy an inordinately expensive piece of aluminum with substandard hardware to get a variant of Unix) and that's not only wrong, it's downright exclusive. Put yet another way, answer the question the person actually asks, if you can. If you don't do windows development and you can't actually offer help, maybe just don't reply.

...

On Sat, Sep 9, 2017 at 6:07 AM, Ian Stapleton Cordasco wrote:

...
Windows is a fine developer environment and consistently getting better. Let's not discourage people from learning to cure on the operating systems they're already comfortable with. If you can't help them, don't try to make them learn yet another thing as a barrier to learning Python

Sent from my phone with my typo-happy thumbs. Please excuse my brevity

On Sep 8, 2017 11:31, "Peter Bittner" wrote:

...
If you can get hold of a computer running GNU/Linux, e.g. a machine running an Ubuntu desktop, that would be ideal.

Windows is not ideal for developing software (well, that's my personal opinion). Especially the path issues you don't have on other systems. In my experience you have everything easily at hand with a GNU/Linux system. Ubuntu or Mint are lovely and very popular. Even a Mac is better suited, though that requires some hacking (installing a a package manager) to set more potential free. Try them, it will make your life so much easier.

Peter

2017-09-08 18:19 GMT+02:00 Kyrian Okoroama :

...
Hi

No I do not have those.

Should I install them or one?

Kyrian Okoroama .C.

On ‎Friday‎, ‎September‎ ‎8‎, ‎2017‎ ‎05‎:‎50‎:‎31‎ ‎PM‎ ‎CEST, Peter Bittner wrote:

Do you have Bash (a GNU/Linux shell) on your Windows machine?

If that's the case start the Bash terminal application and type "python". Python should already be installed and easily accessible there from any directory.

Peter

2017-09-08 16:09 GMT+02:00 Ian Stapleton Cordasco :

...
Your IDE does not seem to be able to find where you installed Python. This has nothing to do with pylint

Sent from my phone with my typo-happy thumbs. Please excuse my brevity

On Sep 8, 2017 09:06, "Kyrian Okoroama via code-quality" wrote:

...
Hi there

I am totally new to programming language. However I am running the online free course on Alison on Python programming language, which I have installed according to instructions on the video but I having issues Debugging my first Hello World script. see attached files

kindly help.

Kyrian Okoroama .C.

_______________________________________________ code-quality mailing list code-quality@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/code-quality

...
...
_______________________________________________ code-quality mailing list code-quality@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/code-quality

code-quality mailing list code-quality@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/code-quality

_______________________________________________ code-quality mailing list code-quality@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/code-quality

-- Dan Stromberg

Amir Rachum

7:45 p.m.

Kyrian, your problem seems very basic, and I'm afraid it would be quite difficult to help over email. I suggest you download the Python Windows Installer from the Python website: https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-362/ After you install Python, try to search for "IDLE" in your Start menu. It's the built-in Python shell and editor on Windows. If you get it to work, then you installed Python correctly. *Peter and Dan*, there's "right" and there's "helpful" and you two are neither. Telling someone who was unsuccessful at installing Python on Windows to install Linux is just getting them deeper in trouble. I use both Linux and Windows for professional Python development and they are both adequate and most definitely not "3rd-rate software". On Sat, Sep 9, 2017 at 10:25 PM, Ian Stapleton Cordasco < graffatcolmingov@gmail.com> wrote:

...

On Sat, Sep 9, 2017 at 11:30 AM, Dan Stromberg wrote:

...
Windows improves somewhat in areas where it has a strong competitor.

It lies fallow in areas where it has a majority of the marketshare.

Windows is usable, but it's 3rd-rate software, after Linux and macOS.

We should consider assisting Windows users on Windows, but there's

nothing

...
wrong with also reminding them that there are better alternatives available.

There's a difference between someone who comes to this list saying

"I'm trying to run Pylint from my editor and I've followed some instructions for getting set up on Windows. Does anyone know why it doesn't work?"

And someone saying

"Hey, I'm having trouble doing python development on Windows. Is writing Python on Windows so awful I should switch to something else?"

What we have here is someone asking the first question and getting an answer to the second question. In other words, you're telling the person that in order for them to develop software in Python they must use Linux (or a worst buy an inordinately expensive piece of aluminum with substandard hardware to get a variant of Unix) and that's not only wrong, it's downright exclusive.

Put yet another way, answer the question the person actually asks, if you can. If you don't do windows development and you can't actually offer help, maybe just don't reply.

...
On Sat, Sep 9, 2017 at 6:07 AM, Ian Stapleton Cordasco wrote:

...
Windows is a fine developer environment and consistently getting better. Let's not discourage people from learning to cure on the operating

systems

...
they're already comfortable with. If you can't help them, don't try to make them learn yet another thing as a barrier to learning Python

Sent from my phone with my typo-happy thumbs. Please excuse my brevity

On Sep 8, 2017 11:31, "Peter Bittner" wrote:

...
If you can get hold of a computer running GNU/Linux, e.g. a machine running an Ubuntu desktop, that would be ideal.

Windows is not ideal for developing software (well, that's my personal opinion). Especially the path issues you don't have on other systems. In my experience you have everything easily at hand with a GNU/Linux system. Ubuntu or Mint are lovely and very popular. Even a Mac is better suited, though that requires some hacking (installing a a package manager) to set more potential free. Try them, it will make your life so much easier.

Peter

2017-09-08 18:19 GMT+02:00 Kyrian Okoroama :

...
Hi

No I do not have those.

Should I install them or one?

Kyrian Okoroama .C.

On ‎Friday‎, ‎September‎ ‎8‎, ‎2017‎ ‎05‎:‎50‎:‎31‎ ‎PM‎ ‎CEST, Peter Bittner wrote:

Do you have Bash (a GNU/Linux shell) on your Windows machine?

If that's the case start the Bash terminal application and type "python". Python should already be installed and easily accessible there from

any

...
...
directory.

Peter

2017-09-08 16:09 GMT+02:00 Ian Stapleton Cordasco :

...
Your IDE does not seem to be able to find where you installed Python. This has nothing to do with pylint

Sent from my phone with my typo-happy thumbs. Please excuse my brevity

On Sep 8, 2017 09:06, "Kyrian Okoroama via code-quality" wrote: > > Hi there > > I am totally new to programming language. However I am running the > online > free course on Alison on Python programming language, which I have > installed > according to instructions on the video but I having issues Debugging > my > first Hello World script. > see attached files > > kindly help. > > Kyrian Okoroama .C. > > > _______________________________________________ > code-quality mailing list > code-quality@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/code-quality

...
>

_______________________________________________ code-quality mailing list code-quality@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/code-quality

code-quality mailing list code-quality@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/code-quality

_______________________________________________ code-quality mailing list code-quality@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/code-quality

-- Dan Stromberg

code-quality mailing list code-quality@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/code-quality

Peter Bittner

10:36 p.m.

Sorry, just shaking my head about how so many, I guess, adult men (guessing again) can behave so childish. Let me ask the last childish question: Amir, are you sure Python is not installed yet on their computer? -- I don't know. But I know that if it is then asking them to use another IDE (instead of Visual Studio) is probably not much better than asking them to try to find Bash on their Windows system (hoping it was Windows X, sorry, 10, which I've been told now can incorporate Bash to make things easier for developers, Windows developers). No aluminum yet involved. Apart from the X. I meant to be polite. And I'm going to stay polite. And while I value freedom more, I respect either side of the trifold spectrum, just to be helpful. Because I care for learners. And I'm sure also Dan cares. Step back, stay respectful, because the Python community must prove that it respects diversity as much as beauty and simplicity. Beautiful is better than ugly, simple is better than complicated, pragmatism is better than fighting a religious war, and usability counts. Unfortunately there is not only one obvious way to fail on a complex system, though failing on Windows is much more fun. Unless you're Finnish. In the face of ambiguity refuse the temptation to suggest solutions that have not been asked for. Because when it's difficult to explain without hurting people who care for religion it may be a bad idea. The only good answer on this very mess was Ian's: This has nothing to do with Pylint. And while this may not be particularly helpful at first sight, this is the only appropriate answer on this list. Wishing you a wonderful weekend everyone, hoping to see you on the next PyCon. And may Saint Ignucius bless you all! Peter Il 09/set/2017 21:46, "Amir Rachum" ha scritto:

...

Kyrian, your problem seems very basic, and I'm afraid it would be quite difficult to help over email. I suggest you download the Python Windows Installer from the Python website: https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-362/ After you install Python, try to search for "IDLE" in your Start menu. It's the built-in Python shell and editor on Windows. If you get it to work, then you installed Python correctly.

*Peter and Dan*, there's "right" and there's "helpful" and you two are neither. Telling someone who was unsuccessful at installing Python on Windows to install Linux is just getting them deeper in trouble. I use both Linux and Windows for professional Python development and they are both adequate and most definitely not "3rd-rate software".

On Sat, Sep 9, 2017 at 10:25 PM, Ian Stapleton Cordasco < graffatcolmingov@gmail.com> wrote:

...
On Sat, Sep 9, 2017 at 11:30 AM, Dan Stromberg wrote:

...
Windows improves somewhat in areas where it has a strong competitor.

It lies fallow in areas where it has a majority of the marketshare.

Windows is usable, but it's 3rd-rate software, after Linux and macOS.

We should consider assisting Windows users on Windows, but there's

nothing

...
wrong with also reminding them that there are better alternatives available.

There's a difference between someone who comes to this list saying

"I'm trying to run Pylint from my editor and I've followed some instructions for getting set up on Windows. Does anyone know why it doesn't work?"

And someone saying

"Hey, I'm having trouble doing python development on Windows. Is writing Python on Windows so awful I should switch to something else?"

What we have here is someone asking the first question and getting an answer to the second question. In other words, you're telling the person that in order for them to develop software in Python they must use Linux (or a worst buy an inordinately expensive piece of aluminum with substandard hardware to get a variant of Unix) and that's not only wrong, it's downright exclusive.

Put yet another way, answer the question the person actually asks, if you can. If you don't do windows development and you can't actually offer help, maybe just don't reply.

...
On Sat, Sep 9, 2017 at 6:07 AM, Ian Stapleton Cordasco wrote:

...
Windows is a fine developer environment and consistently getting

better.

...
Let's not discourage people from learning to cure on the operating systems they're already comfortable with. If you can't help them, don't try to make them learn yet another thing as a barrier to learning Python

Sent from my phone with my typo-happy thumbs. Please excuse my brevity

On Sep 8, 2017 11:31, "Peter Bittner" wrote:

...
If you can get hold of a computer running GNU/Linux, e.g. a machine running an Ubuntu desktop, that would be ideal.

Windows is not ideal for developing software (well, that's my personal opinion). Especially the path issues you don't have on other systems. In my experience you have everything easily at hand with a GNU/Linux system. Ubuntu or Mint are lovely and very popular. Even a Mac is better suited, though that requires some hacking (installing a a package manager) to set more potential free. Try them, it will make your life so much easier.

Peter

2017-09-08 18:19 GMT+02:00 Kyrian Okoroama :

...
Hi

No I do not have those.

Should I install them or one?

Kyrian Okoroama .C.

On ‎Friday‎, ‎September‎ ‎8‎, ‎2017‎ ‎05‎:‎50‎:‎31‎ ‎PM‎ ‎CEST,

Peter

...
...
Bittner wrote:

Do you have Bash (a GNU/Linux shell) on your Windows machine?

If that's the case start the Bash terminal application and type "python". Python should already be installed and easily accessible there from any directory.

Peter

2017-09-08 16:09 GMT+02:00 Ian Stapleton Cordasco : > Your IDE does not seem to be able to find where you installed Python. > This > has nothing to do with pylint > > Sent from my phone with my typo-happy thumbs. Please excuse my brevity > > On Sep 8, 2017 09:06, "Kyrian Okoroama via code-quality" > wrote: >> >> Hi there >> >> I am totally new to programming language. However I am running the >> online >> free course on Alison on Python programming language, which I have >> installed >> according to instructions on the video but I having issues Debugging >> my >> first Hello World script. >> see attached files >> >> kindly help. >> >> Kyrian Okoroama .C. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> code-quality mailing list >> code-quality@python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/code-quality

>> > > _______________________________________________ > code-quality mailing list > code-quality@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/code-quality >

code-quality mailing list code-quality@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/code-quality

_______________________________________________ code-quality mailing list code-quality@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/code-quality

-- Dan Stromberg

code-quality mailing list code-quality@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/code-quality

_______________________________________________ code-quality mailing list code-quality@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/code-quality

Dan Stromberg

10:38 p.m.

On Sat, Sep 9, 2017 at 12:45 PM, Amir Rachum wrote:

...

Peter and Dan, there's "right" and there's "helpful" and you two are neither. Telling someone who was unsuccessful at installing Python on Windows to install Linux is just getting them deeper in trouble. I use both Linux and Windows for professional Python development and they are both adequate and most definitely not "3rd-rate software".

Actually, there aren't many developers who argue For Windows. They mostly work at Microsoft or own Microsoft stock - or simply have little to no basis for comparison. Oh, and IT people - they love being told "Sorry, we can't do that - but then you don't really want to" by Microsoft because it gets the IT department off the hook. But most people who use Microsoft products don't do so because it's good software, they use it because "that's what everybody else is doing". I had the displeasure of working at Microsoft for a while; they acquired a Linux company I was working at. They didn't give me a title, BTW. Real Amusing. Anyway, if we hadn't had some sort of virtualization product, we would've had big problems, because Windows kept messing itself. We had to reset to an old snapshot several times a day on some projects. Then there's the matter of passing a quoted string to a subprocess on windows. It's a mess, because every command has to do argument splitting itself and the default implementation doesn't do it well. The arguments are actually passed as a single, flat string, rather than as distinct strings in an array. And there's the matter of getting a usable exit code back from a Windows subprocess; they're nearly 100% reliable on *ix, but on Windows they frequently don't mean what they should. PowerShell actually abandons exit(exit_code) and adds its own way of doing it to work around the problem. Then there's the "It's only good if it comes from Microsoft" mindset, which is condemning enough on its own. EG: I suggested that I do my work in Python, and they replied that no one knows Python (implying it was thus a bad choice), and saying that I had to work in PowerShell. Even IronPython wasn't good enough for them! That's right, they'd probably prefer it if Python just died, and we all worked in PowerShell or C#. They literally said, during an all hands meeting across the entire company, that they wanted All of Earth's important software to come from Microsoft - that was their goal. So yeah, if you work on an important software product, they want you out of business. If you're lucky you might get acquired. The hubris is astonishing. Also, I once saw Balmer accidentally tackle a woman in a televised meeting, and just keep running up onto the stage without so much as helping her back up. There's priorities for you. Also, a guy I used to play Go with once told me about being told "F*ck you!" by Paul Allen on Microsoft's support line - Paul Allen being one of Microsoft's founders. There's quality tech support for you. Not. Oh, and there was the time I commented that Microsoft filesystems don't support symlinks. I got a sour face in response... until I finished my sentence saying that the latest Microsoft filesystem did support them, by a different name. That wasn't good enough for our product, but suddenly symlinks mattered to this guy, and talking about their absence wasn't so bad. It's like an honest, candid discussion of technical merits was off limits. Then there's the problem of Microsoft tools mostly having non-columnar output. That really makes a mess of automatically parsing their output. I have extensive notes on the problems I encountered in PowerShell. Do I really need to trot them out? And do I need to mention that I used to be fascinated by language design and implementation? Oh, and lets not forget Microsoft zooming from no security in their filesystems at all, to a baroque, overengineered security system. *ix sits somewhere in the middle, and is used much more effectively by endusers. Like I said, Windows is usable, but it's far from equal to *ix (which includes Linux and macOS). Microsoft has a history of emphasizing profit over software quality, and the problems just get layered deeper and deeper. Because what "matters" is MS Office sales, not technical debt in our foundations. Not. Now, mind you: I didn't say "Use Linux instead" nor did I say "Install Linux today" - those are both strawperson arguments. I did, however, say that there are reasons to discuss switching to something better, both for the O.P. (today, someday, maybe never, but at least the O.P. is relatively known to be aware) and for the list as a whole. Also, you don't have to buy a whole new computer to run Linux - Windows does, as I already implied, passingly well with virtualization (hey, it appears to be better than FreeBSD at that - I've used Windows more than FreeBSD though, so I could be wrong), so you can just install VirtualBox (or VirtualPC, or whatever) and run Linux inside your Windows. But I didn't just say that primarily as a response to the O.P. I'm saying it primarily to you, Amir. PS: I used to have Microsoft options, as a condition of employment. I flipped them as soon they vested, despite the tax implications. And I only feel a little dirty for accepting their money. PPS: One of the guys Microsoft acquired along with me, said "Windows just sucks!" during his interview-that-wasn't-an-interview. They kept him anyway. Make of that what you will. -- Dan Stromberg

Peter Bittner

10:54 p.m.

...

Kyrian, your problem seems very basic, and I'm afraid it would be quite difficult to help over email. I suggest you download the Python Windows Installer from the Python website: https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-362/ After you install Python, try to search for "IDLE" in your Start menu. It's the built-in Python shell and editor on Windows. If you get it to work, then you installed Python correctly.

*Peter and Dan*, there's "right" and there's "helpful" and you two are neither. Telling someone who was unsuccessful at installing Python on Windows to install Linux is just getting them deeper in trouble. I use both Linux and Windows for professional Python development and they are both adequate and most definitely not "3rd-rate software".

On Sat, Sep 9, 2017 at 10:25 PM, Ian Stapleton Cordasco < graffatcolmingov@gmail.com> wrote:

...
On Sat, Sep 9, 2017 at 11:30 AM, Dan Stromberg wrote:

...
Windows improves somewhat in areas where it has a strong competitor.

It lies fallow in areas where it has a majority of the marketshare.

Windows is usable, but it's 3rd-rate software, after Linux and macOS.

We should consider assisting Windows users on Windows, but there's

nothing

...
wrong with also reminding them that there are better alternatives available.

There's a difference between someone who comes to this list saying

"I'm trying to run Pylint from my editor and I've followed some instructions for getting set up on Windows. Does anyone know why it doesn't work?"

And someone saying

"Hey, I'm having trouble doing python development on Windows. Is writing Python on Windows so awful I should switch to something else?"

What we have here is someone asking the first question and getting an answer to the second question. In other words, you're telling the person that in order for them to develop software in Python they must use Linux (or a worst buy an inordinately expensive piece of aluminum with substandard hardware to get a variant of Unix) and that's not only wrong, it's downright exclusive.

Put yet another way, answer the question the person actually asks, if you can. If you don't do windows development and you can't actually offer help, maybe just don't reply.

...
On Sat, Sep 9, 2017 at 6:07 AM, Ian Stapleton Cordasco wrote:

...
Windows is a fine developer environment and consistently getting

better.

...
Let's not discourage people from learning to cure on the operating systems they're already comfortable with. If you can't help them, don't try to make them learn yet another thing as a barrier to learning Python

Sent from my phone with my typo-happy thumbs. Please excuse my brevity

On Sep 8, 2017 11:31, "Peter Bittner" wrote:

...
If you can get hold of a computer running GNU/Linux, e.g. a machine running an Ubuntu desktop, that would be ideal.

Windows is not ideal for developing software (well, that's my personal opinion). Especially the path issues you don't have on other systems. In my experience you have everything easily at hand with a GNU/Linux system. Ubuntu or Mint are lovely and very popular. Even a Mac is better suited, though that requires some hacking (installing a a package manager) to set more potential free. Try them, it will make your life so much easier.

Peter

2017-09-08 18:19 GMT+02:00 Kyrian Okoroama :

...
Hi

No I do not have those.

Should I install them or one?

Kyrian Okoroama .C.

On ‎Friday‎, ‎September‎ ‎8‎, ‎2017‎ ‎05‎:‎50‎:‎31‎ ‎PM‎ ‎CEST,

Peter

...
...
Bittner wrote:

Do you have Bash (a GNU/Linux shell) on your Windows machine?

If that's the case start the Bash terminal application and type "python". Python should already be installed and easily accessible there from any directory.

Peter

2017-09-08 16:09 GMT+02:00 Ian Stapleton Cordasco : > Your IDE does not seem to be able to find where you installed Python. > This > has nothing to do with pylint > > Sent from my phone with my typo-happy thumbs. Please excuse my brevity > > On Sep 8, 2017 09:06, "Kyrian Okoroama via code-quality" > wrote: >> >> Hi there >> >> I am totally new to programming language. However I am running the >> online >> free course on Alison on Python programming language, which I have >> installed >> according to instructions on the video but I having issues Debugging >> my >> first Hello World script. >> see attached files >> >> kindly help. >> >> Kyrian Okoroama .C. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> code-quality mailing list >> code-quality@python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/code-quality

>> > > _______________________________________________ > code-quality mailing list > code-quality@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/code-quality >

code-quality mailing list code-quality@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/code-quality

_______________________________________________ code-quality mailing list code-quality@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/code-quality

-- Dan Stromberg

code-quality mailing list code-quality@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/code-quality

_______________________________________________ code-quality mailing list code-quality@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/code-quality

Ian Stapleton Cordasco

10 Sep 10 Sep

12:44 p.m.

For the benefit of others, and to avoid further off-topic, unprofessional rants, I've set a flag such that Dan's post must go through moderation to be posted to the list. I apologize to all of you for the vitriol and nonsense posted earlier. Cheers, Ian

Bob Stodola

11 Sep 11 Sep

1:19 a.m.

Many thanks, Ian. My young son sent letters to Congress and got more helpful and encouraging replies! With respect to your original comment (“This has nothing to do with pylint”), in fairness, I did want to note that once Kyrian gets his IDE hooked to python, I can confirm that pylint WILL detect the error in his code: Bob$ pylint -ry t.py ************* Module t E: 1, 0: invalid syntax (syntax-error) Bob$ So, Kyrian, once you get your stuff configured right, stick with pylint! It WILL save you lots of time! Cheers, Bob!

Stephen Satchell

7:50 a.m.

On 09/10/2017 06:19 PM, Bob Stodola wrote:

...

Many thanks, Ian. My young son sent letters to Congress and got more helpful and encouraging replies!

Wish I could say the same. Every single letter I write to my Congress-critters yields a canned response that addresses nothing regarding the issues and questions in my letters. Phone calls to the 'critters offices are equally useless. To both Republicans and Democrats.

...

With respect to your original comment (“This has nothing to do with pylint”), in fairness, I did want to note that once Kyrian gets his IDE hooked to python, I can confirm that pylint WILL detect the error in his code:

Bob$ pylint -ry t.py ************* Module t E: 1, 0: invalid syntax (syntax-error) Bob$

I will say you made me look at the man page for pylint for the first time. Didn't see that "-r n" is an option, which can be useful when creating or reworking code and running pylint at frequent intervals.

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Amir Rachum
Bob Stodola
Dan Stromberg
Ian Stapleton Cordasco
Kyrian Okoroama
Peter Bittner
Peter Bittner
Stephen Satchell

Pylint path issues

Kyrian Okoroama

Kyrian Okoroama

Bob Stodola

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