On Fri, 1 Jan 2016 at 13:37 R. David Murray <rdmurray@bitdance.com> wrote:
On Fri, 01 Jan 2016 20:25:11 +0000, Stefan Krah <skrah.temporarily@gmail.com> wrote:
> Brett Cannon <brett@...> writes:
> > I don't think this will be a shock to anyone who has followed the
> discussion on this list. The decision is essentially based on:
>
> We must have been reading different discussions: On *this* list more
> people were in favor of GitLab! Except for Guido, Donald and Senthil
> (on python-committers) no one has even bothered to post an explicit
> +1 for GitHub.
>
> It's very disappointing that GitHub proponents apparently felt the
> need to contact you privately instead of stating their opinions in
> the open.

The impression I got here was Barry advocating GitLab (of course), and
you arguing against GitHub (but not, particularly, in favor of GitLab).
Everything else was down at the noise level :)

That's the impression I got as well.

The reason I didn't think it would be surprising was my constant prodding for GitLab features that made it stand out. I wouldn't have bothered pushing for that if I had already chosen GitLab or thought it was on track to win out. The fact that I persistently tried to make the open source solution somehow shine was because I was trying to grasp on to something for GitLab because I was trying to avoid the stress of dealing with people being unhappy with selecting GitHub by making my decision glaringly obvious (and in all honesty it would have been nice if an open source solution could have won out; maybe in the future). In the end, though, I decided dealing with people upset from going with GitHub was worth it compared to the positives of selecting GitHub, hence my decision.
 

Me, I don't care one way or the other, as long as we aren't locking
ourselves in to either.

Now, the fact that people felt it better to contact Brett privately to
advocate for GitHub is indeed interesting, and yes, disappointing.  The
interesting question is, why is that?  Perhaps it is what was alluded to
earlier, that favoring the "commercial alternative" is seen as "bad" in
terms of what we might label as "virtue signalling"?  Which would be
weird, because GitLab isn't non-commercial.  So maybe there's some other
reason (because GitHub is the big gorilla and people think it is
"better" to favor the underdog?), but I wonder if it still comes down to
virtue signalling (or, rather, not wanting to signal non-virtue, in this
case).

So I agree with you, it would be great if people would openly speak
their minds, as Guido did :)

On the other hand, it might just be a matter of the "usenet nod", and
not wanting to "clutter up the list" with a "me too".  You did get some
pushback against your arguments, to which people may have been nodding.

The comments came of two forms. Some were of "yay for GitHub" so basically a one sentence head nod. The other was a few private messages that were a bit longer and explaining their view on the options (including not switching). The vast majority of these emails, though, were in reaction to my email to python-committers asking for people to tell me if they would walk away if we chose GitHub. Most said they were emailing me privately to avoid adding any unnecessary noise to that email thread, but I suspect it also had to do with them not being subscribers to core-workflow and not caring enough to join this list to wade into the discussion.

But also realize that this process has been going on for over a year now. I have had multiple conversations at conferences at this point with people who expressed various opinions on the matter and I didn't report those face-to-face conversations either and which are no different than a private email. There was never going to be a chance where anyone but me was going to have complete knowledge of people's various positions, nor was I about to report a tally of those conversations based on preferences. I'm sorry if people feel like I did a disservice by not doing a regular "general sentiment of the Python community" report based on what private feedback I received, but I just didn't think about it nor did I think it would be an issue for anyone that people chose to speak with me privately.