Distutils-SIG April 2020

distutils-sig@python.org

4 participants
7 discussions

by Donald Stufft

Currently in the packaging space, we have a number of avenues for communication, which are: - distutils-sig - pypa-dev - virtualenv-users - Other project specific mailing lists - IRC - gitter - Various issue trackers spread across multiple platforms. - Probably more places I’m not remembering. The result of this is that all discussion ends up being super fractured amongst the various places. Sometimes that is exactly what you want (for instance, someone who is working on the wheel specs probably doesn’t care about deprecation policy and internal module renaming in pip) and sometimes that ends up being the opposite of what you want (for instance, when you’re describing something that touches PyPI, setuptools, flit, pip, etc all at once). Theoretically the idea is that distutils-sig is where cross project reaching stuff goes, IRC/gitter is where real time discussion goes, and the various project mailing lists and issue trackers are where the project specific bits go. The problem is that often times doesn’t actually happen in practice except for the largest and most obvious of changes. I think our current “communications stack” kind of sucks, and I’d love to figure out a better way for us to handle this that solves the sort of weird “independent but related” set of projects we have here. From my POV, a list of our major problems are: * Discussion gets fractured across a variety of platforms and locations, which can make it difficult to actually keep up with what’s going on but also to know how to loop in someone relevant if their input would be valuable. You have to more or less simultaneously know someone’s email, Github username, IRC nick, bitbucket username, etc to be able to bring threads of discussion to people’s attention. * It’s not always clear to users where a discussion should go, often times they’ll come to one location and need to get redirected to another location. If any discussion did happen in the incorrect location, it tends to need to get restarted in the new location (and depending on the specific platform, it may be impossible to actually redirect everyone over to the proper location, so you again, end up fractured with the discussion happening in two places). * A lot of the technology in this stack is particularly old, and lacks a lot of the modern day affordances that newer things have. An example is being able to edit a discussion post to fix typos that can hinder the ability of others to actually understand whats being talked about. In your typical mailing list or IRC there’s no mechanism by which you can edit an already sent message, so your only option is to either let the problem ride and hope it doesn’t trip up too many people, or send an additional message to correct the error. However these show up as additional, later messages which someone might not even see until they’ve already been thoroughly confused by the first message (since people tend to read email/IRC in a linear fashion). - There is a lot of things in this one, other things are things like being able to control in a more fine grained manner what email you’re going to get. - Holy crap, formatting and typography to make things actually readable and not a big block of plaintext. * We don’t have a clear way for users to get help, leaving users to treat random issues, discussion areas, etc as a support forum, rather than some place that’s actually optimized for that. Some of this ties back into some of the earlier things too, where it’s hard to actually redirect discussions These aren’t *new* problems, and often times the existing members of a community are the least effected becasue they’ve already spent effort learning the ins and outs and also curating a (typically custom) workflow that they’ve grown accustomed too. The problem with that is that often times that means that new users are left out, and the community gets smaller and smaller as time goes on as people leave and aren’t replaced with new blood, because they’re driven off but the issues with the stack. A big part of the place this is coming from, is me sitting back and realizing that I tend to be drawn towards pulling discussions into Github issues rather than onto the varying mailing lists, not because that’s always the most appropriate place for it, but because it’s the least painful place in terms of features and functionality. I figure if I’m doing that, when I already have a significant investment in setting up tooling and being involved here, that others (and particularly new users) are likely feeling the same way. - Donald

1 week, 1 day

Failure: Error

by oliviajohn123123＠hotmail.com

facing same NOt found issue the issue code is "C:\Users\jaraco\projects\distutils_namespace\myns.projB\test\testBasic.py", can you guide me for this ? https://thelifefoundry.com/hotmail/

2 weeks

FASTEN and dependency analysis at call graph level

by Sumana Harihareswara

Last week I heard for the first time about the research project FASTEN https://www.fasten-project.eu/. "FASTEN stands for Fine-Grained Analysis of Software Ecosystems as Networks." > instead of analyzing dependencies at the package level, we will analyze them at the call graph level! This will allow us to be super precise when we are tracking dependencies, when we do change impact analysis, when we recommend clients to update packages etc. It will also open the door to new sophisticated applications, e.g. licensing compliance, dependency risk profiling and data-driven API evolution. That's from the blog post by Georgios Gousios, the PI, at http://www.gousios.gr/blog/Introducing-Fasten.html . More info: https://www.fasten-project.eu/view/Main/Introduction https://www.fasten-project.eu/view/Main/Overview https://www.fasten-project.eu/view/Main/Contacts And people who are interested in dynamically and statically analyzing call graphs in Python may be interested in "Graph Schema and its representation" in https://www.fasten-project.eu/view/Main/Deliverables . I've sent a note to FASTEN inviting the team to come talk about their project here on distutils-sig, because FASTEN's site says they aim to eventually integrate into PyPI -- I'm not 100% sure whether that means "create a service that people can use WITH PyPI" or "get FASTEN's work incorporated into pypi.org". -- Sumana Harihareswara pip project manager on contract with Python Software Foundation Changeset Consulting https://changeset.nyc

3 weeks, 1 day

Announcement: pip 20.1b1 beta release

by Pradyun Gedam

On behalf of the PyPA, I am pleased to announce a beta release of pip, pip 20.1b1 has been released. The highlights for this release are: * Significant speedups when building local directories, by changing behavior to perform in-place builds, instead of copying to temporary directories. * Significant speedups in `pip list --outdated`, by parallelizing network access. This is the first instance of parallel code within pip's codebase. * A new `pip cache` command, which makes it possible to introspect and manage pip's cache directory. * Better `pip freeze` for packages installed from direct URLs, enabled by the implementation of PEP 610. We would be grateful for all the testing that users could do, to ensure that when pip 20.1 is released, it's as solid as we can make it. This release also contains an alpha version of pip's next generation resolver. It is *off by default* because it *unstable and notready for everyday use*. As with all pip releases, a significant amount of the work was contributed by pip's user community. Huge thanks to all who have contributed, whether through code, documentation, issue reports and/or discussion. Your help keeps pip improving, and is hugely appreciated. Specific thanks go to Mozilla (through its Mozilla Open Source Support <https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/moss/> Awards) <https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/moss/> and to the Chan Zuckerberg Initiative <https://chanzuckerberg.com/eoss/> DAF, an advised fund of Silicon Valley Community Foundation, for their support that enabled the work on the new resolver.

3 months, 1 week

PyPi not allowing duplicate filenames

by Chris Barker

Hi all, PyPi does not allow duplicate file names -- this makes lots of sense, because you really don't want people to go to PyPi one day and grab a file, and then go there another day, grab a file with exactly the same name, and have it be a different file. However.... We are all too human, and make mistakes when doing a release. All to often someone pushed a broken file up to PyPi, often realizes it pretty quickly -- before anyone has a chance to even download it (or only the dev team as, for testing...). In fact, I was in a sprint last summer, and we decided to push our package up to PyPi -- granted, we were all careless amateurish noobs, but we ended up making I think 4! minor version bumps because we had done something stupid in the sdist. Also -- the latest numpy release got caught in this, too: """ * We ran into a problem with pipy not allowing reuse of filenames and a resulting proliferation of *.*.*.postN releases. Not only were the names getting out of hand, some packages were unable to work with the postN suffix. """ So -- I propose that PyPi allow projects to replace existing files if they REALLY REALLY want to. You should have to jump through all sorts of hoops, and make it really clear that it is a BAD IDEA in the general case, but it'd be good to have it be possible. After all -- PyPi does not take on responsibility for anything else about what's in those packages, and Python itself is all about "we're all consenting adults here" I suppose we could even put in some heuristics about how long the file as been there, how many times it's been downloaded, etc. Just a thought.....I really hate systems that don't let me roll back mistakes, even when I discover them almost immediately... -CHB -- Christopher Barker, Ph.D. Oceanographer Emergency Response Division NOAA/NOS/OR&R (206) 526-6959 voice 7600 Sand Point Way NE (206) 526-6329 fax Seattle, WA 98115 (206) 526-6317 main reception Chris.Barker(a)noaa.gov

3 months, 2 weeks

ImportError running 'test' on namespace package - other package in namespace not found

by Jason R. Coombs

I've got two projects: mynamespace.myprojectA and mynamespace.myprojectB myprojectB depends on myprojectA. I'm using setuptools 0.6c8 to manage both projects. Both projects are registered using 'setup develop'. Both projects are accessible from an interactive interpreter: PS C:\Users\me\projects> python Python 2.5.2 (r252:60911, Feb 21 2008, 13:11:45) [MSC v.1310 32 bit (Intel)] on win32 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> import mynamespace.myprojectA >>> import mynamespace.myprojectB >>> from mynamespace.myprojectA import mymoduleZ However, when I run 'setup test' in myprojectB, the tests fail with File ".mymoduleZ.py", line NNN, in [some context] from mynamespace.myprojectA.mymoduleZ import MyClassC ImportError: No module named myprojectA.mymoduleZ In setup.py, the test_suite is nose.collector. I searched and couldn't find anyone else with this problem. Is this a supported configuration? Is there something I can do to make tests work with interdependent projects with the same root namespace? If there's not something obvious I should be doing differently, I'm happy to put together a minimal test case that reproduces the problem. Any suggestions are appreciated. Sincerely, Jason R. Coombs

3 months, 3 weeks

Online talk in 90 min: how pip works internally

by Sumana Harihareswara

Pradyun Gedam is giving a talk to a local meetup group in 90 minutes on how pip works. You can watch via GoToMeeting. https://www.meetup.com/HydPyGroup/events/269498071/ > pip is the package manager for the Python ecosystem, but what actually happens when you "pip install foo"? This talk explores what pip does to install your packages. When: April 7th, 9:00 p.m - 10:00 p.m. India time It'll likely be recorded and be available on YouTube afterward. -- Sumana Harihareswara Changeset Consulting https://changeset.nyc

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Distutils-SIG April 2020