Mailman 3 - Distutils-SIG

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by alltecloud＠yahoo.com 12 Sep '20

12 Sep '20

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FYI: PEP 632: Deprecate distutils module
by Steve Dower 04 Sep '20

04 Sep '20

Hi distutils-sig Just wanted to let you know that I've proposed a core CPython PEP to formally deprecate and remove the standard library distutils module. Text and discussion at https://discuss.python.org/t/pep-632-deprecate-distutils-module/5134 The PEP has gone to python-dev formally because it only deals with the standard library module. setuptools, pip, and recent package work feature in the motivation, but are not bound to follow anything in this PEP. Cheers, Steve

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appveyor failures
by Robin Becker 03 Sep '20

03 Sep '20

looking here for build expertise apologies if not suitable After a python source change one of my appveyor builds has started to fail compiling an extension. The previous build 28/August succeeded completely, but now I see a failure in the third sub-build. No change was made in the c source code. Python 2.7 X86 OK Python 2.7 AMD64 OK Python 3.5 X86 Fails compiling _renderPM.c at line 2150 > C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio 14.0\VC\BIN\cl.exe /c /nologo /Ox /W3 /GL /DNDEBUG /MD -DRENDERPM_FT -DLIBART_COMPILATION -DLIBART_VERSION=\"2.3.21\" -Isrc\rl_addons\renderPM -Isrc\rl_addons\renderPM\libart_lgpl -Isrc\rl_addons\renderPM\gt1 -Iwinstuff\include\freetype2 -Ic:\Python35\include -Ic:\Python35\include -IC:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio 14.0\VC\INCLUDE -IC:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio 14.0\VC\ATLMFC\INCLUDE -IC:\Program Files (x86)\Windows Kits\10\include\10.0.18362.0\ucrt -IC:\Program Files (x86)\Windows Kits\NETFXSDK\4.6.1\include\um -IC:\Program Files (x86)\Windows Kits\10\include\10.0.18362.0\shared -IC:\Program Files (x86)\Windows Kits\10\include\10.0.18362.0\um -IC:\Program Files (x86)\Windows Kits\10\include\10.0.18362.0\winrt /Tcsrc\rl_addons\renderPM\_renderPM.c /Fobuild\temp.win32-3.5\Release\src\rl_addons\renderPM\_renderPM.obj > _renderPM.c > src\rl_addons\renderPM\_renderPM.c(2150): error C2017: illegal escape sequence > src\rl_addons\renderPM\_renderPM.c(2150): error C2001: newline in constant > src\rl_addons\renderPM\_renderPM.c(2151): error C2143: syntax error: missing ')' before 'if' > error: command 'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\Microsoft Visual Studio 14.0\\VC\\BIN\\cl.exe' failed with the code there looks like this PyModule_AddObject(m, "_version", obj); obj = PyUnicode_FromString(LIBART_VERSION); /* this is line 2150 */ if(!obj)goto err; PyModule_AddObject(m, "_libart_version", obj); so it looks like the -DLIBART_VERSION=\"2.3.21\" is failing to pass stuff correctly. The Aug 28 build that worked perfectly used this command line > C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio 14.0\VC\BIN\cl.exe /c /nologo /Ox /W3 /GL /DNDEBUG /MD -DRENDERPM_FT -DLIBART_COMPILATION -DLIBART_VERSION=\"2.3.21\" -Isrc\rl_addons\renderPM -Isrc\rl_addons\renderPM\libart_lgpl -Isrc\rl_addons\renderPM\gt1 -Iwinstuff\include\freetype2 -Ic:\Python35\include -Ic:\Python35\include "-IC:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio 14.0\VC\INCLUDE" "-IC:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio 14.0\VC\ATLMFC\INCLUDE" "-IC:\Program Files (x86)\Windows Kits\10\include\10.0.18362.0\ucrt" "-IC:\Program Files (x86)\Windows Kits\NETFXSDK\4.6.1\include\um" "-IC:\Program Files (x86)\Windows Kits\10\include\10.0.18362.0\shared" "-IC:\Program Files (x86)\Windows Kits\10\include\10.0.18362.0\um" "-IC:\Program Files (x86)\Windows Kits\10\include\10.0.18362.0\winrt" /Tcsrc\rl_addons\renderPM\_renderPM.c /Fobuild\temp.win32-3.5\Release\src\rl_addons\renderPM\_renderPM.obj which looks identical. So it must be the environment/image. The build image is set at Visual Studio 2015. I tried using the previous image, but no luck there. Any ideas / advice welcome. Should I be using a stringify macro? -- Robin Becker

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by Kazmi Bro 22 Aug '20

22 Aug '20

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by Kazmi Bro 22 Aug '20

22 Aug '20

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Thursday Aug 20th: short talk on PyPI & sustainability
by Sumana Harihareswara 13 Aug '20

13 Aug '20

Two researchers studied PyPI's sustainability to understand problems that affect FOSS infrastructure sustainability in general. On Thursday 20 Aug (2:30 - 3:45 PM EDT), one of the study's authors will speak in a Ford Foundation event about FOSS sustainability: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/digital-infrastructure-labor-roles-and-incenti… You can read the researchers' report at https://github.com/FOSSRIT/mismatches/blob/master/Mismatches%20Final%20repo… . Key section of the summary: > These results suggest that different strategies are needed for addressing the non-technical capacities of digital FOSS infrastructure projects. While capacity for things such as documentation, outreach, project management, design, legal work, etc. are often acknowledged as needs within FOSS communities at-large, they are rarely addressed proactively. Rather, they are often addressed only when a project is in crisis. I also draw your attention to the table of tensions between "FOSS culture" and "Infrastructure culture" on page 7, and the misperception that capacity-building may seem to be slowing a project down (p 6-7). (Disclosure: I was a consultant on this analysis.) -- Sumana Harihareswara Changeset Consulting https://changeset.nyc

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pip and missing shared system system library
by David Mathog 12 Aug '20

12 Aug '20

pip install package often results in compiling (using gcc, g++, whatever) to produce a binary. Usually that proceeds without issue. However, there seems to be no checking that the libraries required to link that binary are already on the system. Or at least the message which results when they are not is not at all clear about what is missing. I discovered that today by wasting several hours figuring out why scanpy-scripts was failing trying to build dependency "louvain", which would not install into a venv with pip. It had something to do with "igraph", but pip had downloaded python-igraph before it got to louvain. When louvain tried to build there was a mysterious message about pkgconfig and igraph Cannot find the C core of igraph on this system using pkg-config. (Note that when python-igraph installs it places an igraph directory in site-packages, so which it is referring to is fairly ambiguous.) Then it tried to install a different version number of igraph, failed, and the install failed. This was very confusing because the second igraph install was not (it turned out) a different version of python-igraph but a system level igraph library, which it could not install either because the process was not privileged and could not write to the target directories. Yet it tried to install anyway. This is discussed in the louvain documentation here (it turns out): https://github.com/vtraag/louvain-igraph but since I was actually trying to install a different package, of course I had not read the louvain documentation. In short form the problem was "cannot build a binary because required library libigraph.so is not present in the operating system" but that was less than obvious in the barrage of warnings and error messages. Is it possible to tell pip or setup.py to fail immediately when a required system library like this is not found, here presumably after that "C core" message, rather than confusing the matter further with a failed partial build and install of the same component? More generally, is there anything in the python installation methods which could list system libraries as dependencies and give a more informative error message when they are missing? Thanks, David Mathog

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twine upload & network robustness
by Robin Becker 07 Aug '20

07 Aug '20

Because of covid-19 I am working a lot from home so my network is likely less robust. I was wondering about what happens if I upload with twine to pypi and halfway through my network fails. Is the uploaded filename remembered so I cannot retry when my network comes back? Or is the upload somehow atomic so that it has to complete(be checked) before the file is entered into pypi? -- Robin Becker

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Best way for a project to provide an optional C module
by Daniele Varrazzo 02 Aug '20

02 Aug '20

Hello, packaging psycopg3, I'm wondering what is the best way to provide an optional optimisation module. 1) provide a separate psycopg3-c distribution 2) provide an extra psycopg3[c] 3) try building the extension and fail quietly. 1) seems the cleanest approach: the psycopg3 distribution would have no build-time external dependency (Cython, -dev packages, a compiler) and psycopg3-c can fail hard if some of these dependencies are missing. I am currently trying this approach, finding some problems in working out a good files layout to have two setup.py in the same git repository. 2) would be nice but I don't see a way to identify the extra requested at build time to implement a build_ext command such that if "c" is not the extra then don't do anything. it seems that extra are thought for a different use case, not for optional build-time parts 3) would give me endless headaches to work out why something failed, differentiate failures for missing dependencies from real errors, and dealing with user reports. What would be your advice? Press on with 1 or a different approach? Examples are welcome (the only one I have in mind is PyYAML doing 3). -- Daniele

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Improving Communication
by Donald Stufft 30 Jul '20

30 Jul '20

Currently in the packaging space, we have a number of avenues for communication, which are: - distutils-sig - pypa-dev - virtualenv-users - Other project specific mailing lists - IRC - gitter - Various issue trackers spread across multiple platforms. - Probably more places I’m not remembering. The result of this is that all discussion ends up being super fractured amongst the various places. Sometimes that is exactly what you want (for instance, someone who is working on the wheel specs probably doesn’t care about deprecation policy and internal module renaming in pip) and sometimes that ends up being the opposite of what you want (for instance, when you’re describing something that touches PyPI, setuptools, flit, pip, etc all at once). Theoretically the idea is that distutils-sig is where cross project reaching stuff goes, IRC/gitter is where real time discussion goes, and the various project mailing lists and issue trackers are where the project specific bits go. The problem is that often times doesn’t actually happen in practice except for the largest and most obvious of changes. I think our current “communications stack” kind of sucks, and I’d love to figure out a better way for us to handle this that solves the sort of weird “independent but related” set of projects we have here. From my POV, a list of our major problems are: * Discussion gets fractured across a variety of platforms and locations, which can make it difficult to actually keep up with what’s going on but also to know how to loop in someone relevant if their input would be valuable. You have to more or less simultaneously know someone’s email, Github username, IRC nick, bitbucket username, etc to be able to bring threads of discussion to people’s attention. * It’s not always clear to users where a discussion should go, often times they’ll come to one location and need to get redirected to another location. If any discussion did happen in the incorrect location, it tends to need to get restarted in the new location (and depending on the specific platform, it may be impossible to actually redirect everyone over to the proper location, so you again, end up fractured with the discussion happening in two places). * A lot of the technology in this stack is particularly old, and lacks a lot of the modern day affordances that newer things have. An example is being able to edit a discussion post to fix typos that can hinder the ability of others to actually understand whats being talked about. In your typical mailing list or IRC there’s no mechanism by which you can edit an already sent message, so your only option is to either let the problem ride and hope it doesn’t trip up too many people, or send an additional message to correct the error. However these show up as additional, later messages which someone might not even see until they’ve already been thoroughly confused by the first message (since people tend to read email/IRC in a linear fashion). - There is a lot of things in this one, other things are things like being able to control in a more fine grained manner what email you’re going to get. - Holy crap, formatting and typography to make things actually readable and not a big block of plaintext. * We don’t have a clear way for users to get help, leaving users to treat random issues, discussion areas, etc as a support forum, rather than some place that’s actually optimized for that. Some of this ties back into some of the earlier things too, where it’s hard to actually redirect discussions These aren’t *new* problems, and often times the existing members of a community are the least effected becasue they’ve already spent effort learning the ins and outs and also curating a (typically custom) workflow that they’ve grown accustomed too. The problem with that is that often times that means that new users are left out, and the community gets smaller and smaller as time goes on as people leave and aren’t replaced with new blood, because they’re driven off but the issues with the stack. A big part of the place this is coming from, is me sitting back and realizing that I tend to be drawn towards pulling discussions into Github issues rather than onto the varying mailing lists, not because that’s always the most appropriate place for it, but because it’s the least painful place in terms of features and functionality. I figure if I’m doing that, when I already have a significant investment in setting up tooling and being involved here, that others (and particularly new users) are likely feeling the same way. - Donald

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