No, my reservations are about delaying the installation of pip to first use (or any time after the installation of Python). I don't care that much about
Nick Coghlan <ncoghlan <at> gmail.com> writes: the distinction between bundling and install-time bootstrapping and would appreciate a PEP that explicitly weighed up the pros and cons of those two approaches (at the very least bundling means you don't need a reliable network connection at install time, while install time bootstrapping avoids the problem of old versions of pip, and also gives a way to bootstrap older Python installations). Leaving aside specialised corporate setups with no access to PyPI, any installer is of very limited use without a reliable network connection. Most of the people we're expecting to reach with these changes will have always on network connections, or as near as makes no difference. However, pip and setuptools will change over time, and "-m getpip" allows upgrades to be done fairly easily, under user control. So ISTM we're really talking about an initial "python -m getpip" before lots and lots of "pip install this", "pip install that" etc. Did you (or anyone else) look at my getpip.py? In what way might it not be fit for purpose as a bootrstapper? If it can be readily modified to do what's needed (and I'll put in the work if I can), then given that bootstrapping was the original impetus lacking only an implementation which passed the "simple enough to explain, so a good idea" criterion, perhaps that situation can be rectified. Regards, Vinay Sajip