On 12 Jul 2013 18:36, "Vinay Sajip" <vinay_sajip@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Donald Stufft <donald <at> stufft.io> writes:
> > We should remember that in general people have considered PyEnv that ships
> > with Python 3.3 an inferior alternative to virtualenv largely in part
> > because they have to fetch setuptools and pip prior to using it whereas in
> > virtualenv they do not.
> Let's remember, that's a consequence of packaging being pulled from 3.3 - the
> original plan was to have the ability to install stuff in venvs without third-
> party software being necessary.
> There is no real barrier to using setuptools/pip with Python 3.3+ venvs: For
> example, I published the pyvenvex.py script which creates venvs and installs
> setuptools and pip in a single step:
> https://gist.github.com/vsajip/4673395
> Admittedly it's "only a Gist" and not especially publicised to the wider
> community, but that could be addressed.
> The current situation, as I see it, is a transitional one. When distlib-like
> functionality becomes available in the stdlib, other approaches will be
> possible, which improve upon what's possible with setuptools and pip. I've
> demonstrated some of this using distil. When targeting Python 3.4, shouldn't
> we be looking further than just advancing the status quo a little bit?
> It's been said numerous times that "executable setup.py" must go. ISTM that,
> notwithstanding "practicality beats purity", a pip bootstrap in Python
> would bless executable setup.py and help to extend its lifespan.

Some day pip will get a "wheel only" mode, and that's the step that will kill off the need to run setup.py on production machines even when using the Python specific tools.

Blessing both setuptools and pip as the "obvious way to do it" is designed to give us the wedge we need to start a gradual transition to that world without facing the initial barriers to adoption that were part of what scuttled the distutils2 effort.


> Regards,
> Vinay Sajip
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