The OP was about "bootstrapping setuptools." If, as Leonardo said, we only isolate on the first level (requirements from install_requires or user will be isolated but requirements from build_requires will share the same environment as the invoker of build_requires if they are not wheels), then that opens up some interesting possibilities. However, I don't necessarily think that this is a good idea because it opens up situations that could be nasty to debug.

I still think the simpler method would be as I have said previously, to have a very minimal backend that doesn't depend on anything and simply archives the files and info. We can even put this backend into a separate package that requires and depends on nothing, so that future build systems don't have to re-invent the wheel here.

The question that I have is: how does flit address this issue? Does flit require external dependencies to bootstrap itself?

2017-08-22 13:50 GMT-05:00 Jim Fulton <jim@jimfulton.info>:
Oh, gawd. From now on, someone will have to say buildout 3 times before I appear.

On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 2:06 PM, xoviat <xoviat@gmail.com> wrote:
So are we going for a "primarily isolation" approach then where builds are only isolated on the first level, but subsequent levels share the same build environment?

I'm a huge fan of isolation, but isolation seems to me to be orthogonal to this discussion.

I'm done with this thread. :)

Jim
 

2017-08-22 10:23 GMT-05:00 Jim Fulton <jim@jimfulton.info>:
I didn't mention (nor do I recall anyone mentioning) venvs.

Jim


On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 11:15 AM, Matt Joyce <matt@nycresistor.com> wrote:
venvs within venvs... terrifying concept.

On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 11:02 AM, Jim Fulton <jim@jimfulton.info> wrote:


On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 9:23 AM, Daniel Holth <dholth@gmail.com> wrote:

Isn't this a special case of needing . on sys.path when building a package? Then the same version of setuptools that is being packaged builds itself.

No. The issue for us it wasn't setuptools itself, but it's dependencies and those dependencies conflicted with dependencies of of packages we were installing *and* those packages importing these dependences (indirectly) in their setup scripts.  Setup scripts that import the thing they're about to install, generally to get the version :(, is something I'd love to see go away.

Jim

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