On 29 March 2010 16:32, anatoly techtonik <techtonik@gmail.com> wrote:
So far I haven't seen any counter arguments against _bootstrap script_ itself. I see that the difference between "package management tool" and "bootstrap script" should be defined more clearly. But I do not know how.
You haven't been reading closely, I guess: 1. The script doesn't exist and no-one has stepped up to write it. 2. Three scripts would be required not one (pip, distribute, setuptools were I think the 3 options mentioned) - and that goes against the Zen "There should be one obvious way". 3. You have no consensus that this is a good idea. 4. There is no clear target version - you're insisting that this go in 2.7, even though it has been repeatedly and clearly stated that this is impossible (3.3 is the earliest possible target for something like this). And one which hasn't been mentioned yet (that I've noticed), but I'll add for good measure: 5. You haven't explained what will happen if the target of the bootstrap (easy_install, or whatever) is removed or otherwise becomes unavailable, or isn't supported under whatever version of Python is running (remember, your bootstrap script will need to still be available at least until Python 3.6, for backward compatibility reasons if nothing else). I could come up with more, but these should do. If you want this to go further, I suggest that you do the following (all of these, don't expect anyone else to do any of them for you): 1. Write a PEP, proposing the feature, summarising the arguments for and against as expressed in this thread, addressing all of the objections (start with the 5 above) and suggesting a target version for inclusion. That must be 3.3 or later. 2. Write a patch which implements the feature, including tests and documentation. This can be against trunk. Be prepared to maintain it over an extended period (i.e. updating it to apply cleanly as needed). 3. Persuade python-dev that the idea has merit - get consensus that the feature should go in, and get the PEP accepted (I'd be surprised if you can get this without Tarek's support, which you don't have yet, so there's your starting point once 1 and 2 are done). It might be better spending your time on these activities rather than fanning the flames on distutils-sig in the short term... Paul.