Re: [Distutils] Draft of new setuptools installation instructions
At 10:43 PM 10/3/2006 +0100, Paul Moore wrote:
On 10/3/06, Phillip J. Eby <pje@telecommunity.com> wrote:
Should we make more effort to create a usable command-line experience on Windows? Perhaps use a post-install script to register easy_install so it works from "Start/Run", with an automatic pause to prevent the opened console window from closing when it finishes running? Should we include optional registration for the ``.egg`` extension so downloading or double-clicking an egg installs it?
IMHO, no. Your particular suggestions would annoy me immensely,
Are you sure? Two points here, that I think you're not noticing: 1. Registering an "App Paths" entry for easy_install would simply make it *possible* to type "easy_install" in the Start/Run box and have it work. It wouldn't force you to use it, and seems quite unlikely to conflict with anything else. (It could also be made optional, as per point #2.) 2. I said *optional* registration of the ``.egg`` extension; the idea would be that you'd have a dialog come up at the end of the .win32.exe run, to ask you if you wanted to add it. So, unless you're saying that having the *options* to do these things would annoy you, I don't understand your statement.
* The new install procedure bypasses firewall issues for installing setuptools itself, but doesn't do anything about the issue for packages that have dependencies. Is there anything else that can be done about that?
I've not worked with enough such packages to know the answer to this without asking, but is there an incantation which says "check dependencies, if all are present install, otherwise list the missing dependencies and stop". If that's available, users can manually download what they need. That is minimal, but effective - in my view, simplicity is a virtue here.
Well, keep in mind that such a thing would only work for *one* level of dependencies; if your dependencies have dependencies you'll go through that repeatedly. But I could perhaps add a --no-deps option to "install" that would do the trick. easy_install already has a --no-deps option, but it currently doesn't *display* the dependency list; it probably should. It also doesn't stop the installation process. One minor issue: dependency checking currently takes place *after* the primary egg is installed, and changing that is too big a refactoring to happen in the remaining time until the 0.6 release. But it's definitely something to think about for 0.7.
On 10/3/06, Phillip J. Eby <pje@telecommunity.com> wrote:
IMHO, no. Your particular suggestions would annoy me immensely,
Are you sure? Two points here, that I think you're not noticing:
1. Registering an "App Paths" entry for easy_install would simply make it *possible* to type "easy_install" in the Start/Run box and have it work. It wouldn't force you to use it, and seems quite unlikely to conflict with anything else. (It could also be made optional, as per point #2.)
I had not understood that you meant to use "App Paths". That's reasonable (it's what Python does, for example). I also misread your statement as implying you would add a shortcut. Also, the automatic pause would annoy me. How would you make it *not* happen if I ran the command from a console window I already had open?
2. I said *optional* registration of the ``.egg`` extension; the idea would be that you'd have a dialog come up at the end of the .win32.exe run, to ask you if you wanted to add it.
I noticed that, but assumed you'd want to make the default "yes". I dislike options that I *always* want to switch off. But I retract the "immensely" bit. Overreaction there, sorry :-)
Well, keep in mind that such a thing would only work for *one* level of dependencies; if your dependencies have dependencies you'll go through that repeatedly.
Clearly. That seems implicit (and hence, not a problem) to me in the fact that you aren't getting the dependencies, so how could you scan them for further dependencies. Again, it fits my "keep it simple" attitude. Paul.
On 10/3/06, Phillip J. Eby <pje@telecommunity.com> wrote:
At 10:43 PM 10/3/2006 +0100, Paul Moore wrote:
On 10/3/06, Phillip J. Eby <pje@telecommunity.com> wrote:
Should we make more effort to create a usable command-line experience on Windows? Perhaps use a post-install script to register easy_install so it works from "Start/Run", with an automatic pause to prevent the opened console window from closing when it finishes running? Should we include optional registration for the ``.egg`` extension so downloading or double-clicking an egg installs it?
IMHO, no. Your particular suggestions would annoy me immensely,
Are you sure? Two points here, that I think you're not noticing:
1. Registering an "App Paths" entry for easy_install would simply make it *possible* to type "easy_install" in the Start/Run box and have it work. It wouldn't force you to use it, and seems quite unlikely to conflict with anything else. (It could also be made optional, as per point #2.)
I'll like that, on windows normally I open cmd then run easy_install, very annoying. if I undestand it correctly will be the same that python.exe does.
2. I said *optional* registration of the ``.egg`` extension; the idea would be that you'd have a dialog come up at the end of the .win32.exe run, to ask you if you wanted to add it.
So, unless you're saying that having the *options* to do these things would annoy you, I don't understand your statement.
+1
* The new install procedure bypasses firewall issues for installing setuptools itself, but doesn't do anything about the issue for packages that have dependencies. Is there anything else that can be done about that?
great feature thanks.
I've not worked with enough such packages to know the answer to this without asking, but is there an incantation which says "check dependencies, if all are present install, otherwise list the missing dependencies and stop". If that's available, users can manually download what they need. That is minimal, but effective - in my view, simplicity is a virtue here.
that sounds like Red Hat dependency hell to me.
Well, keep in mind that such a thing would only work for *one* level of dependencies; if your dependencies have dependencies you'll go through that repeatedly.
But I could perhaps add a --no-deps option to "install" that would do the trick. easy_install already has a --no-deps option, but it currently doesn't *display* the dependency list; it probably should. It also doesn't stop the installation process.
One minor issue: dependency checking currently takes place *after* the primary egg is installed, and changing that is too big a refactoring to happen in the remaining time until the 0.6 release. But it's definitely something to think about for 0.7.
I don't see why that's a problem you should install setuptools then get the deps of all the other packages, that's why everything depends on setuptools in a implicit way.
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participants (3)
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Jorge Vargas -
Paul Moore -
Phillip J. Eby