Preemptive Apology for Volume of Mail
Just want to apologize to anyone who recently received a lot of mail from me. I realized shortly after I queued all the emails that they should have been grouped by user and not by package. So, I'm sorry. I really am and I feel bad about the amount of mail some of you have received from me. ----------------- Donald Stufft PGP: 0x6E3CBCE93372DCFA // 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA
Please can you do something to stop it? Kill the MTA or something? This is ridiculous... Chris On 04/06/2013 06:46, Donald Stufft wrote:
Just want to apologize to anyone who recently received a lot of mail from me.
I realized shortly after I queued all the emails that they should have been grouped by user and not by package.
So, I'm sorry. I really am and I feel bad about the amount of mail some of you have received from me.
----------------- Donald Stufft PGP: 0x6E3CBCE93372DCFA // 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA
______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service. For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com ______________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
-- Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk
On Jun 3, 2013, at 11:29 PM, Chris Withers wrote:
Please can you do something to stop it? Kill the MTA or something?
This is ridiculous…
As someone also in the top percentile of package maintainers I understand your annoyance, but just make a filter for donald@python.org for the day or something. The vast majority of PyPI users have only one package so asking us to derail the sending (probably resulting in having to begin again) is unhelpful. If the only cost to us all is hitting Ctrl-A Delete, I welcome progress with open arms. --Noah
On 04/06/2013 07:33, Noah Kantrowitz wrote:
On Jun 3, 2013, at 11:29 PM, Chris Withers wrote:
Please can you do something to stop it? Kill the MTA or something?
This is ridiculous…
As someone also in the top percentile of package maintainers I understand your annoyance, but just make a filter for donald@python.org for the day or something. The vast majority of PyPI users have only one package so asking us to derail the sending (probably resulting in having to begin again) is unhelpful. If the only cost to us all is hitting Ctrl-A Delete, I welcome progress with open arms.
Are you not concerned that various bits of python.org involved in this process are going to start getting hit by RBLs and other spam filtering that will cause problems down the line as a result of all this noise? Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk
On Jun 4, 2013, at 2:37 AM, Chris Withers <chris@python.org> wrote:
On 04/06/2013 07:33, Noah Kantrowitz wrote:
On Jun 3, 2013, at 11:29 PM, Chris Withers wrote:
Please can you do something to stop it? Kill the MTA or something?
This is ridiculous…
As someone also in the top percentile of package maintainers I understand your annoyance, but just make a filter for donald@python.org for the day or something. The vast majority of PyPI users have only one package so asking us to derail the sending (probably resulting in having to begin again) is unhelpful. If the only cost to us all is hitting Ctrl-A Delete, I welcome progress with open arms.
Are you not concerned that various bits of python.org involved in this process are going to start getting hit by RBLs and other spam filtering that will cause problems down the line as a result of all this noise?
Chris
-- Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk _______________________________________________ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
Honestly at this point if anything like that happens the damage is likely already done. The vast bulk of them have already been sent. Starting over now would be more emails than letting them finish. ----------------- Donald Stufft PGP: 0x6E3CBCE93372DCFA // 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA
On Jun 3, 2013, at 11:37 PM, Chris Withers wrote:
On 04/06/2013 07:33, Noah Kantrowitz wrote:
On Jun 3, 2013, at 11:29 PM, Chris Withers wrote:
Please can you do something to stop it? Kill the MTA or something?
This is ridiculous…
As someone also in the top percentile of package maintainers I understand your annoyance, but just make a filter for donald@python.org for the day or something. The vast majority of PyPI users have only one package so asking us to derail the sending (probably resulting in having to begin again) is unhelpful. If the only cost to us all is hitting Ctrl-A Delete, I welcome progress with open arms.
Are you not concerned that various bits of python.org involved in this process are going to start getting hit by RBLs and other spam filtering that will cause problems down the line as a result of all this noise?
No, because only a very small number of people are going to be getting more than a handful of these, and any user with 50+ packages is hopefully enough of a power-user to not fly off the handle. --Noah
On 04/06/2013 07:45, Noah Kantrowitz wrote:
As someone also in the top percentile of package maintainers I understand your annoyance, but just make a filter for donald@python.org for the day or something. The vast majority of PyPI users have only one package so asking us to derail the sending (probably resulting in having to begin again) is unhelpful. If the only cost to us all is hitting Ctrl-A Delete, I welcome progress with open arms.
Are you not concerned that various bits of python.org involved in this process are going to start getting hit by RBLs and other spam filtering that will cause problems down the line as a result of all this noise?
No, because only a very small number of people are going to be getting more than a handful of these, and any user with 50+ packages is hopefully enough of a power-user to not fly off the handle.
That's not what I'm referring to; how much mail has actually been sent? MTAs end up being blacklisted automatically by ISPs and RBLs if they heuristically look like they're spewing spam. It's what companies like MailChimp and co spend their lives working around. Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk
On Jun 4, 2013, at 12:14 AM, Chris Withers wrote:
On 04/06/2013 07:45, Noah Kantrowitz wrote:
As someone also in the top percentile of package maintainers I understand your annoyance, but just make a filter for donald@python.org for the day or something. The vast majority of PyPI users have only one package so asking us to derail the sending (probably resulting in having to begin again) is unhelpful. If the only cost to us all is hitting Ctrl-A Delete, I welcome progress with open arms.
Are you not concerned that various bits of python.org involved in this process are going to start getting hit by RBLs and other spam filtering that will cause problems down the line as a result of all this noise?
No, because only a very small number of people are going to be getting more than a handful of these, and any user with 50+ packages is hopefully enough of a power-user to not fly off the handle.
That's not what I'm referring to; how much mail has actually been sent?
MTAs end up being blacklisted automatically by ISPs and RBLs if they heuristically look like they're spewing spam. It's what companies like MailChimp and co spend their lives working around.
Thanks to running many very very large mailing lists, I can promise you another few thousand messages exiting our servers is a non-issue. --Noah
On 04/06/2013 08:16, Noah Kantrowitz wrote:
MTAs end up being blacklisted automatically by ISPs and RBLs if they heuristically look like they're spewing spam. It's what companies like MailChimp and co spend their lives working around.
Thanks to running many very very large mailing lists, I can promise you another few thousand messages exiting our servers is a non-issue.
This isn't a mailing list, this is a process sending out mails. I've recently seen something very similar start getting RBL errors from msn after only a hundred or so emails sent. Anyway, let's just hope... Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk
On Jun 4, 2013, at 12:21 AM, Chris Withers wrote:
On 04/06/2013 08:16, Noah Kantrowitz wrote:
MTAs end up being blacklisted automatically by ISPs and RBLs if they heuristically look like they're spewing spam. It's what companies like MailChimp and co spend their lives working around.
Thanks to running many very very large mailing lists, I can promise you another few thousand messages exiting our servers is a non-issue.
This isn't a mailing list, this is a process sending out mails.
I've recently seen something very similar start getting RBL errors from msn after only a hundred or so emails sent.
Anyway, let's just hope…
Its all the same, these emails are relaying via mail.python.org. --Noah
That's ok. The bigger problem is to understand English text. =) -- anatoly t. On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 8:46 AM, Donald Stufft <donald@stufft.io> wrote:
Just want to apologize to anyone who recently received a lot of mail from me.
I realized shortly after I queued all the emails that they should have been grouped by user and not by package.
So, I'm sorry. I really am and I feel bad about the amount of mail some of you have received from me.
----------------- Donald Stufft PGP: 0x6E3CBCE93372DCFA // 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA
_______________________________________________ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 7:46 AM, Donald Stufft <donald@stufft.io> wrote:
Just want to apologize to anyone who recently received a lot of mail from me.
I realized shortly after I queued all the emails that they should have been grouped by user and not by package.
I like it this way. Now I can easily reply and include the other owners in the discussion. :-) But on the other hand, I really only need two discussions, one for zope.* and one for plone.* All the packages that I am truly a maintainer for I changed the first day the feature was available, I don't seem to get emails about those. So there. :-) //Lennart
On Jun 4, 2013, at 2:45 AM, Lennart Regebro <regebro@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 7:46 AM, Donald Stufft <donald@stufft.io> wrote:
Just want to apologize to anyone who recently received a lot of mail from me.
I realized shortly after I queued all the emails that they should have been grouped by user and not by package.
I like it this way. Now I can easily reply and include the other owners in the discussion. :-)
But on the other hand, I really only need two discussions, one for zope.* and one for plone.*
All the packages that I am truly a maintainer for I changed the first day the feature was available, I don't seem to get emails about those. So there. :-)
//Lennart
I *was* smart enough to make sure it only emailed for packages that it actually needed too. Just not smart enough not to send people one per package :/ ----------------- Donald Stufft PGP: 0x6E3CBCE93372DCFA // 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA
On Tue, Jun 04, 2013 at 02:49:58AM -0400, Donald Stufft wrote:
I *was* smart enough to make sure it only emailed for packages that it actually needed too.
Just not smart enough not to send people one per package :/
Heh, for some packages I actually got two emails. I'm guessing I'm listed twice in the roles table. Stephan Richter had a script that granted access to all of zope.* to somebody; perhaps I was manually to a couple of packages before that script ran. Or something. PyPI could use something like GitHub organization accounts. Marius Gedminas -- C is a language that combines all the elegance and power of assembly language with all the readability and maintainability of assembly language.
On Jun 4, 2013, at 6:17 AM, Marius Gedminas <marius@pov.lt> wrote:
On Tue, Jun 04, 2013 at 02:49:58AM -0400, Donald Stufft wrote:
I *was* smart enough to make sure it only emailed for packages that it actually needed too.
Just not smart enough not to send people one per package :/
Heh, for some packages I actually got two emails.
I'm guessing I'm listed twice in the roles table. Stephan Richter had a script that granted access to all of zope.* to somebody; perhaps I was manually to a couple of packages before that script ran. Or something. PyPI could use something like GitHub organization accounts.
Marius Gedminas -- C is a language that combines all the elegance and power of assembly language with all the readability and maintainability of assembly language. _______________________________________________ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
Organization accounts are something I want to add in the future. ----------------- Donald Stufft PGP: 0x6E3CBCE93372DCFA // 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA
On Tue, Jun 04, 2013 at 07:26 -0400, Donald Stufft wrote:
On Jun 4, 2013, at 6:17 AM, Marius Gedminas <marius@pov.lt> wrote:
On Tue, Jun 04, 2013 at 02:49:58AM -0400, Donald Stufft wrote:
I *was* smart enough to make sure it only emailed for packages that it actually needed too.
Just not smart enough not to send people one per package :/
Heh, for some packages I actually got two emails.
I'm guessing I'm listed twice in the roles table. Stephan Richter had a script that granted access to all of zope.* to somebody; perhaps I was manually to a couple of packages before that script ran. Or something. PyPI could use something like GitHub organization accounts.
Marius Gedminas -- C is a language that combines all the elegance and power of assembly language with all the readability and maintainability of assembly language. _______________________________________________ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
Organization accounts are something I want to add in the future.
FYI the upcoming (this week) devpi-server release will have organisational github-style accounts. best, holger
----------------- Donald Stufft PGP: 0x6E3CBCE93372DCFA // 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA
_______________________________________________ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
As to the technical change: how can this be set when uploading a package for the first time ? Specifically, is there a control knob available to setup.py (setuptools/distutils/whatever, I'm pretty much lost between the alternatives and usually just cargo-cult when creating a new setup.py) ? If not, what is/will be the default setting ? (I guess #3 for one month, then #1 maybe ?) Regards, -- Vincent Pelletier ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
On Jun 4, 2013, at 2:52 AM, "Vincent Pelletier" <vincent@nexedi.com> wrote:
As to the technical change: how can this be set when uploading a package for the first time ? Specifically, is there a control knob available to setup.py (setuptools/distutils/whatever, I'm pretty much lost between the alternatives and usually just cargo-cult when creating a new setup.py) ? If not, what is/will be the default setting ? (I guess #3 for one month, then #1 maybe ?)
Regards, -- Vincent Pelletier
---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
The default option for all new packages since introduced a week or two ago has been #1. ----------------- Donald Stufft PGP: 0x6E3CBCE93372DCFA // 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA
On Jun 4, 2013, at 2:52 AM, "Vincent Pelletier" <vincent@nexedi.com> wrote:
As to the technical change: how can this be set when uploading a package for the first time ? Specifically, is there a control knob available to setup.py (setuptools/distutils/whatever, I'm pretty much lost between the alternatives and usually just cargo-cult when creating a new setup.py) ? If not, what is/will be the default setting ? (I guess #3 for one month, then #1 maybe ?)
Regards, -- Vincent Pelletier
---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
And to answer your other question there's nothing in setup.py to control it. For new packages it defaults to strict and allows folks to, if they really want to, expand it. ----------------- Donald Stufft PGP: 0x6E3CBCE93372DCFA // 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA
On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 1:46 AM, Donald Stufft <donald@stufft.io> wrote:
Just want to apologize to anyone who recently received a lot of mail from me.
I realized shortly after I queued all the emails that they should have been grouped by user and not by package.
So, I'm sorry. I really am and I feel bad about the amount of mail some of you have received from me.
This is a minor annoyance. If someone is worked up about this, they aren't using the right email client, or don't know how to use it. I was able to deal with these messages in a few seconds. Much thanks for all your packaging efforts. I really appreciate it. Jim -- Jim Fulton http://www.linkedin.com/in/jimfulton
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/04/2013 01:46 AM, Donald Stufft wrote:
Just want to apologize to anyone who recently received a lot of mail from me.
I realized shortly after I queued all the emails that they should have been grouped by user and not by package.
So, I'm sorry. I really am and I feel bad about the amount of mail some of you have received from me.
I don't mind the 250 or so messages, but I'd *really* like to get a "bulk change" UI to set all 250 to #1 at once -- there is no way I'm going to take the time to clickety-click through them and fix them by hand. Without such a UI, I guess I'm just going to wait for the auto-conversion. Tres. - -- =================================================================== Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tseaver@palladion.com Palladion Software "Excellence by Design" http://palladion.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with undefined - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlGuA6UACgkQ+gerLs4ltQ5CuACeMst3VewOCkGMx82Dx62PTtan Bj0AnRpSCCymJGMdxjuVx0/klKqIYxfo =IELQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Jun 4, 2013, at 11:11 AM, Tres Seaver <tseaver@palladion.com> wrote:
Signed PGP part On 06/04/2013 01:46 AM, Donald Stufft wrote:
Just want to apologize to anyone who recently received a lot of mail from me.
I realized shortly after I queued all the emails that they should have been grouped by user and not by package.
So, I'm sorry. I really am and I feel bad about the amount of mail some of you have received from me.
I don't mind the 250 or so messages, but I'd *really* like to get a "bulk change" UI to set all 250 to #1 at once -- there is no way I'm going to take the time to clickety-click through them and fix them by hand. Without such a UI, I guess I'm just going to wait for the auto-conversion.
Tres. - -- =================================================================== Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tseaver@palladion.com Palladion Software "Excellence by Design" http://palladion.com
_______________________________________________ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
I'll see what I can whip up. Would a script be ok? ----------------- Donald Stufft PGP: 0x6E3CBCE93372DCFA // 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/04/2013 11:13 AM, Donald Stufft wrote:
I'll see what I can whip up. Would a script be ok?
Sure -- I'm fine with whatever works. Thanks! Tres. - -- =================================================================== Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tseaver@palladion.com Palladion Software "Excellence by Design" http://palladion.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with undefined - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlGuBUMACgkQ+gerLs4ltQ4+QACeKSfBL2qVzMtphRX+JZ3cmNPQ 0XcAniXUgAIlLaH729gO3GItgUzD0kMW =NVwu -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
participants (10)
-
anatoly techtonik -
Chris Withers -
Donald Stufft -
holger krekel -
Jim Fulton -
Lennart Regebro -
Marius Gedminas -
Noah Kantrowitz -
Tres Seaver -
Vincent Pelletier