On Aug 7, 2018, at 3:46 AM, Paul Moore <p.f.moore@gmail.com> wrote:

IIRC, ensurepip by design doesn't go to the internet , so it will only ever upgrade to the version bundled with Python (from the docs "To ensure the installed version of pip is *at least as recent as the one bundled with ensurepip*, pass the --upgrade option" [emphasis mine]). To get the latest available version, you should do `python -m pip install --upgrade pip` (better than `pip install...` as it works on Windows) as you mentioned.

This is correct. Although I would like to further improve it to allow at least adding a flag that would have it reach out to the internet, if not doing that by default and having the installers/makefile use a flag that disable touching the internet (the *real* thing we wanted was for the installers and such to not reach out to the internet. I think it’s fine if manual invocations of that command reach out to the internet).

On Aug 7, 2018, at 11:43 AM, Chris Barker - NOAA Federal via Distutils-SIG <distutils-sig@python.org> wrote:

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IIRC, ensurepip by design doesn't go to the internet , so it will only ever upgrade to the version bundled with Python

Now I’m really confused — if pip is already bundled with Python, then what is ensurepip for ?!?!

Ensurepip is the mechanism that Python uses to bundle pip with Python. We didn’t add pip to the stdlib, we added ensurepip to the stdlib. In 3.x the makefiles and macOS/Windows installers will automatically run ensurepip (however in both cases there are flags to disable running ensurepip— but it defaults to On in 3.x). Ensurepip is also the mechanism that the venv module uses to install pip into a fresh, brand new virtual environment.

Or really, the question at hand: should a user starting from scratch with a python.org install of 3.7 run ensurepip?

Or can they just go straight to:

Python3 -m pip install —upgrade pip

The intention behind ensurepip was that they could just go straight to ``python3 -m pip install -U pip`` because the ensurepip was implicit when they installed Python. However some downstream distributors have mucked around with ensurepip in one way or another (ranging from not running it by default, to out right disabling it).

For completeness' sake: accidentally sent offline. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Chung Tzu-ping <uranusjr@me.com> Date: Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 1:54 PM Subject: Re: [Distutils] Re: Is ensurepip still a thing? To: Chris Barker - NOAA Federal <chris.barker@noaa.gov> Replies inline On 7 Aug 2018, at 23:43, Chris Barker - NOAA Federal <chris.barker@noaa.gov> wrote:

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IIRC, ensurepip by design doesn't go to the internet , so it will only ever upgrade to the version bundled with Python

Now I’m really confused — if pip is already bundled with Python, then what is ensurepip for ?!?!

Yes and no. Python does not have pip pre-installed, but distributions from python.org comes with a wheel of pip (and one for setuptools) that allows ensurepip to install pip withou teaching the internet. The files to make pip work is there, but not available as a module before ensurepip is run. The purpose of ensurepip is to make the distributed wheels available as the importable and invokable pip module and command. This is not the only way to make pip available for a newly-installed Python, but is the way you are mostly encouraged to do it.

Or really, the question at hand: should a user starting from scratch with a python.org install of 3.7 run ensurepip?

Yes. It gives you the pip command and module.

Or can they just go straight to:

Python3 -m pip install —upgrade pip

They can’t. pip cannot be used before you install them, either via ensurepip or other methods (not encouraged and not discussed here).

?!?

-CHB

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from the docs "To ensure the installed version of pip is *at least as recent as the one bundled with ensurepip*, pass the --upgrade option" [emphasis mine]). To get the latest available version, you should do `python -m pip install --upgrade pip` (better than `pip install...` as it works on Windows) as you mentioned.

Paul

-- Tzu-ping Chung (@uranusjr) uranusjr@gmail.com Sent from my iPhone On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 2:00 PM, Chris Barker <chris.barker@noaa.gov> wrote:

On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 9:16 AM, Donald Stufft <donald@stufft.io> wrote:

Ensurepip is the mechanism that Python uses to bundle pip with Python. We

...

didn’t add pip to the stdlib, we added ensurepip to the stdlib. In 3.x the makefiles and macOS/Windows installers will automatically run ensurepip (however in both cases there are flags to disable running ensurepip— but it defaults to On in 3.x).

OK -- that makes sense.

...

...

Or really, the question at hand: should a user starting from scratch with a python.org install of 3.7 run ensurepip?

Or can they just go straight to:

Python3 -m pip install —upgrade pip

The intention behind ensurepip was that they could just go straight to ``python3 -m pip install -U pip`` because the ensurepip was implicit when they installed Python. However some downstream distributors have mucked around with ensurepip in one way or another (ranging from not running it by default, to out right disabling it).

so I *think* that means that ensurepip still has a useful function, but if folks install python from the python.org installers (on Windows and OS-X) then they can upgrade pip right out of the box -- yes?

-CHB

--

Christopher Barker, Ph.D. Oceanographer

Emergency Response Division NOAA/NOS/OR&R (206) 526-6959 voice 7600 Sand Point Way NE (206) 526-6329 fax Seattle, WA 98115 (206) 526-6317 main reception

Chris.Barker@noaa.gov

-- Christopher Barker, Ph.D. Oceanographer Emergency Response Division NOAA/NOS/OR&R (206) 526-6959 voice 7600 Sand Point Way NE (206) 526-6329 fax Seattle, WA 98115 (206) 526-6317 main reception Chris.Barker@noaa.gov