cdecimal licensing/hosting (was: some questions about PEP470)
On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 1:44 PM, Alex Gaynor <alex.gaynor@gmail.com> wrote:
Stefan Krah <stefankrah <at> freenet.de> writes:
(for example right now bytereef.org is down, so we’d not discover any files there).
Indeed. It was up reliably since 2005, down for maintenance on September 23rd (before ShellShock ...). Then I discovered that someone had put up m3-cdecimal on PyPI (presumably abusing PyPI as their private repo --- there are several m3-* packages now).
This triggered some reflection on whether I would make a significant effort in the future to keep things running smoothly for an open source community where authors are largely viewed as expendable.
I don't know what it means for "authors to be largely viewed as expendable", but half the point of hosting things on PyPI is that you *don't* need to do any work at all as an author for reliable delivery of your package.
Subsequently the downtime (again, the first one since 2005) was picked up for propagandistic purposes on Twitter and Reddit.
Ok, but you seem to be doing the other side's propaganda. Every single person I've spoken to agrees that this just underscores the need to encourage packages to be on PyPI.
Last year I would have felt an obligation to minimize the downtime to an hour at most. I no longer feel any such obligations and I'll do it when I have time.
Ok. The PyPI administrators still feel an obligation to their users, so I'll prefer packages under their care.
Stefan Krah
Cheers, Alex
Perhaps Stefan's referring to my tweets about the inability to reach bytereef but those weren't propaganda tweets. Those were tweets born out of utter frustration. Further, I'm rather shocked that you've decided to allow the site to remain unreachable because someone did what your license allowed them to do (redistribute the software while retaining the required information: copyright, license, etc). If you think that makes you expendable, you're half right. Users can redistribute your software, that's the nature of the license you chose to use. You're wrong because you, the author, are still very valuable to those very users who may encounter a bug in the future. I don't see how intentionally keeping your site unreachable does anything but hurt your users (unless of course you want them to redistribute it themselves or switch to Python 3.4). Does this mean that companies using devpi to keep an internal index that also have copies of cdecimal are somehow violating your rights? They're doing exactly what your license allows them to do. Or is it just that some group has decided to redistribute it directly through PyPI? I'm thoroughly confused here.
Gentlemen, could you please stop this and show some more respect in these discussions ? Thanks, -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Source
Python/Zope Consulting and Support ... http://www.egenix.com/ mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/ mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/
::: Try our new mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! :::: eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH Pastor-Loeh-Str.48 D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611 http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/ On 12.10.2014 21:26, Ian Cordasco wrote:
On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 1:44 PM, Alex Gaynor <alex.gaynor@gmail.com> wrote:
Stefan Krah <stefankrah <at> freenet.de> writes:
(for example right now bytereef.org is down, so we’d not discover any files there).
Indeed. It was up reliably since 2005, down for maintenance on September 23rd (before ShellShock ...). Then I discovered that someone had put up m3-cdecimal on PyPI (presumably abusing PyPI as their private repo --- there are several m3-* packages now).
This triggered some reflection on whether I would make a significant effort in the future to keep things running smoothly for an open source community where authors are largely viewed as expendable.
I don't know what it means for "authors to be largely viewed as expendable", but half the point of hosting things on PyPI is that you *don't* need to do any work at all as an author for reliable delivery of your package.
Subsequently the downtime (again, the first one since 2005) was picked up for propagandistic purposes on Twitter and Reddit.
Ok, but you seem to be doing the other side's propaganda. Every single person I've spoken to agrees that this just underscores the need to encourage packages to be on PyPI.
Last year I would have felt an obligation to minimize the downtime to an hour at most. I no longer feel any such obligations and I'll do it when I have time.
Ok. The PyPI administrators still feel an obligation to their users, so I'll prefer packages under their care.
Stefan Krah
Cheers, Alex
Perhaps Stefan's referring to my tweets about the inability to reach bytereef but those weren't propaganda tweets. Those were tweets born out of utter frustration. Further, I'm rather shocked that you've decided to allow the site to remain unreachable because someone did what your license allowed them to do (redistribute the software while retaining the required information: copyright, license, etc). If you think that makes you expendable, you're half right. Users can redistribute your software, that's the nature of the license you chose to use. You're wrong because you, the author, are still very valuable to those very users who may encounter a bug in the future. I don't see how intentionally keeping your site unreachable does anything but hurt your users (unless of course you want them to redistribute it themselves or switch to Python 3.4).
Does this mean that companies using devpi to keep an internal index that also have copies of cdecimal are somehow violating your rights? They're doing exactly what your license allows them to do. Or is it just that some group has decided to redistribute it directly through PyPI? I'm thoroughly confused here. _______________________________________________ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
participants (2)
-
Ian Cordasco -
M.-A. Lemburg