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pip, virtualenv, setuptools on Windows

M.-A. Lemburg

7 Jul 2014 7 Jul '14

8:02 a.m.

I wonder what our story is for the pip, virtualenv, setuptools packaging setup on Windows. At the moment, the only way to get this setup seems to be following guides such as these: http://www.tylerbutler.com/2012/05/how-to-install-python-pip-and-virtualenv-... But that's not really how Windows users expect things to work. They want to click on an installer, preferably a MSI one, since that integrates well with managed corporate Windows environments, and then expect everything to just work. Much in the same way they install Python itself. Is there anything planned in this area ? Hint: If someone were to send in a grant request to build such an installer for Windows, I'm sure the PSF board would love to fund work such work. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Jul 07 2014)

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Vinay Sajip

7 Jul 7 Jul

8:20 a.m.

ISTM the click-on-an-MSI-and-everything-works may be OK for a "system-wide" installation for a given version of Python, but I don't see how that can work with venvs (it's the same problem as for bdist_wininst installers). How would one pass the venv (to install into) to a point-and-click installer, without using a command line? Drag-and-drop onto a venv folder is a possibility, but that's not exactly the conventional usage idiom for MSIs. Regards, Vinay Sajip ________________________________ From: M.-A. Lemburg To: Python Distutils SIG Sent: Monday, 7 July 2014, 14:02 Subject: [Distutils] pip, virtualenv, setuptools on Windows I wonder what our story is for the pip, virtualenv, setuptools packaging setup on Windows. At the moment, the only way to get this setup seems to be following guides such as these: http://www.tylerbutler.com/2012/05/how-to-install-python-pip-and-virtualenv-... But that's not really how Windows users expect things to work. They want to click on an installer, preferably a MSI one, since that integrates well with managed corporate Windows environments, and then expect everything to just work. Much in the same way they install Python itself. Is there anything planned in this area ? Hint: If someone were to send in a grant request to build such an installer for Windows, I'm sure the PSF board would love to fund work such work. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Jul 07 2014)

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Python Projects, Consulting and Support ... http://www.egenix.com/ mxODBC.Zope/Plone.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/ mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/

2014-07-21: EuroPython 2014, Berlin, Germany ... 14 days to go ::::: Try our mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! :::::: eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH Pastor-Loeh-Str.48 D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611 http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/ _______________________________________________ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig

M.-A. Lemburg

8:25 a.m.

On 07.07.2014 15:20, Vinay Sajip wrote:

...

ISTM the click-on-an-MSI-and-everything-works may be OK for a "system-wide" installation for a given version of Python, but I don't see how that can work with venvs (it's the same problem as for bdist_wininst installers). How would one pass the venv (to install into) to a point-and-click installer, without using a command line? Drag-and-drop onto a venv folder is a possibility, but that's not exactly the conventional usage idiom for MSIs.

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough: I am talking about bootstrapping a Windows system Python installation with pip, setuptools and virtualenv. Once this is done, virtualenvs can be setup as usual from the command line. The problem is getting to that point easily :-)

...

Regards,

Vinay Sajip

________________________________ From: M.-A. Lemburg To: Python Distutils SIG Sent: Monday, 7 July 2014, 14:02 Subject: [Distutils] pip, virtualenv, setuptools on Windows

I wonder what our story is for the pip, virtualenv, setuptools packaging setup on Windows.

At the moment, the only way to get this setup seems to be following guides such as these:

http://www.tylerbutler.com/2012/05/how-to-install-python-pip-and-virtualenv-...

But that's not really how Windows users expect things to work. They want to click on an installer, preferably a MSI one, since that integrates well with managed corporate Windows environments, and then expect everything to just work. Much in the same way they install Python itself.

Is there anything planned in this area ?

Hint: If someone were to send in a grant request to build such an installer for Windows, I'm sure the PSF board would love to fund work such work.

-- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Jul 07 2014)

...

...
...
Python Projects, Consulting and Support ... http://www.egenix.com/ mxODBC.Zope/Plone.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/ mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/

Paul Moore

8:29 a.m.

On 7 July 2014 14:25, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:

...

On 07.07.2014 15:20, Vinay Sajip wrote:

...
ISTM the click-on-an-MSI-and-everything-works may be OK for a "system-wide" installation for a given version of Python, but I don't see how that can work with venvs (it's the same problem as for bdist_wininst installers). How would one pass the venv (to install into) to a point-and-click installer, without using a command line? Drag-and-drop onto a venv folder is a possibility, but that's not exactly the conventional usage idiom for MSIs.

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough: I am talking about bootstrapping a Windows system Python installation with pip, setuptools and virtualenv.

Once this is done, virtualenvs can be setup as usual from the command line. The problem is getting to that point easily :-)

The MSI for Python 3.4 includes both pip and venv by default, which pretty much covers this scenario. Setuptools is also included but that's officially an implementation detail (as the core devs don't want to "bless" setuptools to the extent that distributing it with Python would imply). Regardless, "pip install setuptools" does the job, and you have the environment you're describing. If you want virtualenv rather than venv, "pip install virtualenv" gets that. Am I missing something? Paul

M.-A. Lemburg

9:25 a.m.

On 07.07.2014 15:29, Paul Moore wrote:

...

On 7 July 2014 14:25, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:

...
On 07.07.2014 15:20, Vinay Sajip wrote:

...
ISTM the click-on-an-MSI-and-everything-works may be OK for a "system-wide" installation for a given version of Python, but I don't see how that can work with venvs (it's the same problem as for bdist_wininst installers). How would one pass the venv (to install into) to a point-and-click installer, without using a command line? Drag-and-drop onto a venv folder is a possibility, but that's not exactly the conventional usage idiom for MSIs.

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough: I am talking about bootstrapping a Windows system Python installation with pip, setuptools and virtualenv.

Once this is done, virtualenvs can be setup as usual from the command line. The problem is getting to that point easily :-)

The MSI for Python 3.4 includes both pip and venv by default, which pretty much covers this scenario. Setuptools is also included but that's officially an implementation detail (as the core devs don't want to "bless" setuptools to the extent that distributing it with Python would imply). Regardless, "pip install setuptools" does the job, and you have the environment you're describing.

If you want virtualenv rather than venv, "pip install virtualenv" gets that.

Am I missing something?

Yes: Installers for Python 2.6, 2.7 and 3.3 :-) -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Jul 07 2014)

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Python Projects, Consulting and Support ... http://www.egenix.com/ mxODBC.Zope/Plone.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/ mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/

Paul Moore

9:51 a.m.

On 7 July 2014 15:25, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:

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Yes: Installers for Python 2.6, 2.7 and 3.3 :-)

Ha. That one, I'll leave to someone who cares about 2.x... ;-) Paul

Donald Stufft

10:39 a.m.

I think there may have been discussion about this for 2.7 at PyCon. 2.6 and 3.3 I’m guessing would require someone else to do them. I tried awhile back but never got it finished. On Jul 7, 2014, at 10:51 AM, Paul Moore wrote:

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On 7 July 2014 15:25, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:

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Yes: Installers for Python 2.6, 2.7 and 3.3 :-)

Ha. That one, I'll leave to someone who cares about 2.x... ;-)

Paul _______________________________________________ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig

----------------- Donald Stufft PGP: 0x6E3CBCE93372DCFA // 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA

Steve Dower

11:42 a.m.

Paul Moore wrote:

...

On 7 July 2014 15:25, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:

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Yes: Installers for Python 2.6, 2.7 and 3.3 :-)

Ha. That one, I'll leave to someone who cares about 2.x... ;-)

Paul

That "someone" is Nick Coghlan, and as long as the python-dev discussion doesn't take too long, it should happen for 2.7.x (where x may be 10+, at the rate OpenSSL bugs keep forcing us to rerelease...) There's also https://bootstrap.pypa.io/get-pip.py, which is better than an MSI in almost every way IMHO. Cheers, Steve

Ned Deily

1:30 p.m.

In article <7aec470fc5174985b2ea690a71aec0e4@BLUPR03MB389.namprd03.prod.outlook.com

...

, Steve Dower wrote: Paul Moore wrote:

...
On 7 July 2014 15:25, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:

...
Yes: Installers for Python 2.6, 2.7 and 3.3 :-)

Ha. That one, I'll leave to someone who cares about 2.x... ;-) That "someone" is Nick Coghlan, and as long as the python-dev discussion doesn't take too long, it should happen for 2.7.x (where x may be 10+, at the rate OpenSSL bugs keep forcing us to rerelease...)

I think Nick has broadly hinted that he would welcome someone else picking up the task of extending PEP 453 to Python 2.7. I don't have the time right at the moment to do it myself but I certainly am willing to backport to 2.7 the pieces of the implementation that I did. http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.devel/147836

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There's also https://bootstrap.pypa.io/get-pip.py, which is better than an MSI in almost every way IMHO.

Definitely and that should work for 2.6 and 3.3 as well. -- Ned Deily, nad@acm.org

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Donald Stufft
M.-A. Lemburg
Ned Deily
Paul Moore
Steve Dower
Vinay Sajip

pip, virtualenv, setuptools on Windows

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