[issue25296] Simple End-of-life guide covering all unsupported versions
New submission from Nick Coghlan: Katie McLaughlin recently pointed me at PHP's summary page for the End-of-Life dates for their various releases: http://php.net/eol.php That seems like a useful thing to offer, but we unfortunately don't currently have a great place for this kind of documentation: - the main docs are version specific, while this kind of page should be version independent - the update process, access control model and reader experience for python.org is too different from that for the main documentation - ditto for the wiki - informational PEPs are closer from an access control perspective, but aren't generated with Sphinx and are still disconnected from the main docs from a reader perspective - it's off-topic for the developer guide The "right" answer seems to be setting up a separate "docs" project on hg.python.org to use as the landing page for docs.python.org and for version independent information like this (the redirects already defined as part of PEP 430 should continue to handle unqualified deep links into the Python 2 docs). I'm not sure how much reconfiguration work such a change would entail, though. ---------- assignee: docs@python components: Documentation messages: 252084 nosy: docs@python, ncoghlan priority: normal severity: normal status: open title: Simple End-of-life guide covering all unsupported versions type: enhancement _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <http://bugs.python.org/issue25296> _______________________________________
Nick Coghlan added the comment: Adding Georg directly to the nosy, as I think this kind of structural question falls under his domain as the docs lead :) ---------- nosy: +georg.brandl _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <http://bugs.python.org/issue25296> _______________________________________
STINNER Victor added the comment: We now putting the such page on python.org website, as PHP did? I like the idea of being very explicit on EOL. It's a FAQ on mailing lists. Even for me, being involved in Python developments, it's not always easy to know the status of each branch. For example, I recently asked the question for Python 3.4 :-) The answer was that it will switch to security fixes only after the next 3.4.x release. The EOL page must explain each stage of maintenance: * development branch: any kind of change including new features * bugfix: no new feature, only bugfixes including security fixes * security fixes only: no more binary release, only source code release, only security fixes and some execeptional bugfixes (sorry, I don't know the exact rule for bugfixes at this stage) * end of life: dead, no change at all Python 2.6 reached its EOL or security fixes are still accepted? I guess that Python <= 2.5, Python 3.0 and Python 3.1 are dead, right? ---------- nosy: +haypo _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <http://bugs.python.org/issue25296> _______________________________________
Nick Coghlan added the comment: The branch status is captured in the release PEPs: 2.6 (& 3.0): https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0361/ 2.7: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0373/ 3.1: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0375/ 3.2: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0392/ 3.3: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0398/ 3.4: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0429/ 3.5: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0478/ 3.6: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0494/ The "devcycle" page in the developer guide captures the details of the difference phases: https://docs.python.org/devguide/devcycle.html So perhaps the expedient near term solution would be to put this info on the devcycle page, and move it later? ---------- _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <http://bugs.python.org/issue25296> _______________________________________
Nick Coghlan added the comment: Items to capture for each unsupported or security fix only release series: * date & version of last binary release (maintenance -> security fix only transition) * date & version of last source-only security release (commercial redistributors are on their own for ongoing support from this point) * link to the release PEP * link to the upgrade guide in the next What's New doc once the next version is released ---------- _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <http://bugs.python.org/issue25296> _______________________________________
Ezio Melotti added the comment:
- the main docs are version specific, while this kind of page should be version independent
They could still be included in the main docs with a clear link at the top that says "For the most-recently updated schedule see d.p.o/3/eol.html.". Each version should still be correct -- it will just lack the eol dates for the newest releases. The Unicode Consortium and the W3C do something similar (see e.g. http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr29/tr29-23.html and http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/WD-html5-20140617/). Another option is to create a new repo where to put version-independent docs (e.g. the whatsnew, maybe even Misc/NEWS). It shouldn't be difficult to then include these pages in the main docs. ---------- nosy: +ezio.melotti _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <http://bugs.python.org/issue25296> _______________________________________
Davey Shafik added the comment: We (PHP) also have a more visual guide at http://php.net/supported-versions.php which updates dynamically to show the current status. It shows the current status (EOL, Security only, Active) of releases from PHP 5.3, which is still the default for many LTS distros and still in common use. ---------- nosy: +dshafik _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <http://bugs.python.org/issue25296> _______________________________________
STINNER Victor added the comment: Davey Shafik added the comment:
We (PHP) also have a more visual guide at http://php.net/supported-versions.php which updates dynamically to show the current status.
Great job! It's much easier to see the status with the summary in a single picture. ---------- _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <http://bugs.python.org/issue25296> _______________________________________
Ezio Melotti added the comment: I like that, in fact I used the same format in my talk "The development process of Python": http://wolfprojects.altervista.org/talks/development-process-of-python-2011/ (slides 20/21). The main problem is where to put all this though. ---------- _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <http://bugs.python.org/issue25296> _______________________________________
Changes by Barry A. Warsaw <barry@python.org>: ---------- nosy: +barry _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <http://bugs.python.org/issue25296> _______________________________________
R. David Murray added the comment: It seems to me a link to this version independent info could logically appear on the docs front page. I think we ought to add the devguide there already, for instance. The 'Meta information' section seems perfectly appropriate...even though all the docs currently in there are maintained in the Docs directory, both 'about' and 'reporting bugs' are currently version-independent information. ---------- nosy: +r.david.murray _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <http://bugs.python.org/issue25296> _______________________________________
Georg Brandl added the comment:
It seems to me a link to this version independent info could logically appear on the docs front page.
Yes, that sounds good. I do like the PHP graph of versions too... ---------- _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <http://bugs.python.org/issue25296> _______________________________________
Georg Brandl added the comment: It should also be linked from the downloads page. ---------- _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <http://bugs.python.org/issue25296> _______________________________________
Carol Willing added the comment: +1 to adding the EOF info to the Docs front page and a link from the downloads page. Also, +1 to David's suggestion to adding the devguide as well to the front page. In the future, it would be nice to add the devguide to the CPython repo instead of having it as a standalone. It would consolidate things in to one workflow instead of a different workflow for the devguide. P.S. Ezio - nice slide deck content :) ---------- nosy: +willingc _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <http://bugs.python.org/issue25296> _______________________________________
Carol Willing added the comment: And that would be EOL (end of life) not EOF. More coffee please... ---------- _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <http://bugs.python.org/issue25296> _______________________________________
Katie McLaughlin added the comment: Hello! I recently saw an announcement[0] about the adding of the lifecycle status right at the top of the devguide[1]. I believe this was added as part of Issue 26165[2] Given this, can this issue be marked as Resolved? 0 - https://twitter.com/gvanrossum/status/690227337015590912 1 - https://docs.python.org/devguide/#status-of-python-branches 2 - https://bugs.python.org/issue26165 ---------- nosy: +Katie McLaughlin _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <http://bugs.python.org/issue25296> _______________________________________
Changes by Berker Peksag <berker.peksag@gmail.com>: ---------- resolution: -> fixed stage: -> resolved status: open -> closed _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <http://bugs.python.org/issue25296> _______________________________________
Andreas Lutro <anlutro@gmail.com> added the comment: I see this has been closed, but the page on the devguide is still really hard to find. On the python IRC channel I often see questions about this and I always have a hard time finding the page with the correct information. If I google "python version support" or "python version end of life" or "python version lifecycle" I don't arrive at that page. For some of these searches I even end up on a separate devcycle[1] page which only contains old versions of python. Compare that to PHP, where the official "supported versions" page is the top result no matter what I search for. Nevermind the fact that the lifecycle of python versions is relevant to non-developers as well, making it un-intuitive to go to the devguide to find this information. I really think this needs to be made part of python.org's main website, with some good SEO. [1] https://devguide.python.org/devcycle/ ---------- nosy: +Andreas Lutro _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue25296> _______________________________________
Mariatta Wijaya <mariatta.wijaya@gmail.com> added the comment: This is not being tracked in: https://github.com/python/pythondotorg/issues/1302 ---------- nosy: +Mariatta _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue25296> _______________________________________
participants (12)
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Andreas Lutro -
Barry A. Warsaw
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Berker Peksag
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Carol Willing
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Davey Shafik
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Ezio Melotti
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Georg Brandl
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Katie McLaughlin
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Mariatta Wijaya
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Nick Coghlan
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R. David Murray
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STINNER Victor