R. David Murray added the comment: IMO this follows logically from Python's self-consistent rules. I'm not convinced that the amount of extra verbiage required to detail this particular case would make the docs clearer, but you are welcome to suggest a wording for us to consider. ---------- nosy: +r.david.murray _______________________________________ Python tracker http://bugs.python.org/issue10438 _______________________________________

Georg Brandl added the comment: I tend to agree with David. Especially since calling base class methods also uses the explicit class name. ---------- nosy: +georg.brandl _______________________________________ Python tracker http://bugs.python.org/issue10438 _______________________________________

R. David Murray added the comment: Only because you don't *have* self. Which is why I said "imprecise" and not "incorrect" :) ---------- _______________________________________ Python tracker http://bugs.python.org/issue10438 _______________________________________

Ian added the comment: Disregard my previous comment; calling self.f() does not work from a static method. I stand by my previous suggestion, but I'll clarify it like this: "Note: you must also use the C.f() syntax when calling from a static method within the C class" ---------- _______________________________________ Python tracker http://bugs.python.org/issue10438 _______________________________________

Changes by Éric Araujo : ---------- nosy: +eric.araujo _______________________________________ Python tracker http://bugs.python.org/issue10438 _______________________________________

Changes by Serhiy Storchaka : ---------- status: open -> pending _______________________________________ Python tracker http://bugs.python.org/issue10438 _______________________________________

Ian added the comment: I agree that the use case is probably rare. I agree that to someone intimately familiar with the "self-consistent rules" of Python, the correctness of the C.f() approach is probably obvious. However, your documentation says: Static methods in Python are similar to those found in Java or C++. I feel that it's a mistake to purposefully avoid saying where that similarity ends. In those languages (and in many others), fully qualified function calls from within the same class are redundant and border on "code smell". We agree that this aspect of Python is not mentioned in the documentation, and we disagree on whether it should be. For myself, even in the 7 years and thousands of lines of Python since I opened this issue, I still don't find it intuitive or obvious that a method would need to know the name of the class that contains it. That doesn't make the language "wrong" in any way; it makes the documentation incomplete for not addressing it. The __class__.f() usage in Python 3 seems excellent. If that's the preferred way to do it, then that might be a way to approach the documentation. "To call one static method from another within the same class, as of Python 3 you may use __class__.f() instead of C.f(). For Python 2.x, you must still use the name of the class itself, C.f(), as if you were calling from outside the class." (My wording is still less than ideal, but you get the idea.) ---------- _______________________________________ Python tracker http://bugs.python.org/issue10438 _______________________________________

Ian added the comment: I would hope that the docs would cater to people who aren't sure how the language works (and who want to confirm that they are using proper patterns). If people already know how the language works, they won't need the docs. Whether or not you refer to Java and C++, you should state the best practices for both internal and external calling of static methods in Python. ---------- _______________________________________ Python tracker http://bugs.python.org/issue10438 _______________________________________

Raymond Hettinger added the comment: Ian, the docs mostly serve to tell what a tool does. Best practices then emerge from actual practices and are determined by users. I don't see any bug here that needs to be solved and think it is time to close this tracker item. It has been consuming developer clock cycles without addressing any real, known issue. ---------- _______________________________________ Python tracker http://bugs.python.org/issue10438 _______________________________________

R. David Murray added the comment: It is documented how to call a static method when you don't have an instance. So when you don't (for example, inside a static method on the same class) you use that form (call the method on the class name). I realize you don't find this clear, but as Raymond says it is time to stop arguing about it; our rule is that the status quo wins when agreement is not reached for a change. Closing. ---------- resolution: -> not a bug stage: -> resolved status: open -> closed _______________________________________ Python tracker http://bugs.python.org/issue10438 _______________________________________