Hynek Schlawack hs@ox.cx added the comment:

I’m no native speaker but I fail to see anything abusive here.

---------- nosy: +hynek

_______________________________________ Python tracker report@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue15104 _______________________________________

anatoly techtonik techtonik@gmail.com added the comment:

Maybe "abusive language" is not the right translation from Russian. It could be "coarse language" or "foul language".

----------

_______________________________________ Python tracker report@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue15104 _______________________________________

anatoly techtonik techtonik@gmail.com added the comment:

Ok, the "language is not clear enough" is the queasily polite, serious and corteous substitution for "abusive language" in the title of this issue.

Can you translate it to simple english?

----------

_______________________________________ Python tracker report@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue15104 _______________________________________

Martin v. Löwis martin@v.loewis.de added the comment:

Or, actually

"When the script executes as this (i.e. "__main__") module, the following conditional statement, which is in wide use and well-known, will cause the script to run".

----------

_______________________________________ Python tracker report@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue15104 _______________________________________

R. David Murray rdmurray@bitdance.com added the comment:

Hmm. I think that chapter could use a more extensive rewrite with some additional information provided. For example, you actually can have a __main__ module in a package, and anything inside it will execute when the package is run via -m.

The "otherwise anonymous" is a bit misleading, I think. The real distinction is that when a module is run as a script, __name__ is set to __main__, whereas when it is imported, __name__ is the module name. This distinction allows a module to easily detect when it is being run as a script rather than imported, and the "idiomatic 'conditional script' stanza" is how to implement the behavior of a module conditionally acting as a script depending on how it is accessed.

---------- nosy: +r.david.murray stage: -> needs patch title: abusive language in __name__ description -> Unclear language in __main__ description versions: +Python 2.7, Python 3.2, Python 3.3

_______________________________________ Python tracker report@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue15104 _______________________________________

Terry J. Reedy tjreedy@udel.edu added the comment:

As a native speaker, I agree that the sentence, in isolation, is hardly comprehensible. The previous one is also a bit flakey.

The situation is that top-level code executes in a module named __main__, which has one joint global/local namespace that is the global namespace for all subsidiary contexts. '__main__':<__main__ module> is added to sys.modules before user code is executed. The name __main__ is not normally in the __main__ (global) namespace, hence the comment about 'anonymous' in the first sentence. (It is not anonymous in sys.modules.) However (1) __main__ or any other module/namespace can 'import __main__' and get the reference to __main__ from sys.modules and (2) __main__ does have name __name__ bound to the *string* '__main__'. Hence a module can discover whether or not it *is* the __main__ module.

Part of the quoting confusion is that unquoted names in code become strings in namespace dicts, and hence quoted literals when referring to them as keys. What I did not realize until just now is that the __name__ attribute of a module *is* its name (key) in the module namespace (sys.modules dict). For instance, after 'import x.y' or 'from x import y', x.y.__name__ or y.__name is 'x.y' and that is its name (key) in sys.modules. So it appears that the __name__ of a package (sub)module is never just the filename (which I expected), and "__name__ is the module name" only if one considers the package name as part of the module name (which I did not).

The only non-capi reference to module.__name__ in the index is

3.2. The standard type hierarchy Modules "__name__ is the module’s name"

But what is the modules name? Its name in sys.modules, which is either __main__ or the full dotted name for modules in packages (as I just learned). Perhaps this could be explained better here.

---------- nosy: +terry.reedy

_______________________________________ Python tracker report@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue15104 _______________________________________

Changes by Mike Hoy mhoy09@gmail.com:

---------- nosy: +mikehoy

_______________________________________ Python tracker report@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue15104 _______________________________________

Changes by Eric Snow ericsnowcurrently@gmail.com:

---------- nosy: +eric.snow

_______________________________________ Python tracker report@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue15104 _______________________________________

R. David Murray added the comment:

I've made some review comments.

----------

_______________________________________ Python tracker report@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue15104 _______________________________________

Sam Lucidi added the comment:

Thanks, I've revised the change based on your comments.

---------- Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file34822/clarify-__main__-documentation.patch

_______________________________________ Python tracker report@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue15104 _______________________________________

Roundup Robot added the comment:

New changeset 4f23648b7c97 by R David Murray in branch '3.4': #15104: improve the discussion of __main__. http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/4f23648b7c97

New changeset 94ac365bf1b7 by R David Murray in branch 'default': Merge: #15104: improve the discussion of __main__. http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/94ac365bf1b7

---------- nosy: +python-dev

_______________________________________ Python tracker report@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue15104 _______________________________________

R. David Murray added the comment:

Thanks, Sam. I did not apply this to 2.7 because I'm not sure if the __main__.py is supported there. Can someone check?

----------

_______________________________________ Python tracker report@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue15104 _______________________________________

Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

I am a bit puzzled. According to https://docs.python.org/2.7/using/cmdline.html#interface-options __main__.py (not indexed) has been supported since 2.5. On the other hand, recursively grepping Lib for 'e' in __main__.py files hits about 20 files in 3.4 but only 2 in 2.7. Moreover, those two files fail for trying to do relative imports: "from .main import main, TestProgram, USAGE_AS_MAIN".

----------

_______________________________________ Python tracker report@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue15104 _______________________________________

Éric Araujo added the comment:

Docs and indexing/cross-links in 2.7 should indeed be improved. I had forgotten which of 2.6 or 2.7 added support for executing packages thanks to __main__.py files and the docs don't contain an answer that's comprehensive and easy to find.

---------- assignee: docs@python -> eric.araujo nosy: +eric.araujo stage: patch review -> needs patch

_______________________________________ Python tracker report@bugs.python.org http://bugs.python.org/issue15104 _______________________________________