[issue37149] link to official documentation tkinter failed !!!
New submission from Guilloux <bugs.python.org@guilloux-fr.net>: On the page https://docs.python.org/3/library/tkinter.html there is a link to "Tkinter reference: a GUI for Python" which is "https://infohost.nmt.edu/tcc/help/pubs/tkinter/web/index.html". BIG PROBLEM : Since several days this link doesn't work any more !!! It's really important to fix it because most of official online documentation about tkinter was provided by this way !!! Fortunately i have a copy of the documentation (cf pdf file). I have downloaded this file thanks to the website above just before the link was failed ! (Yes, i know, i'm lucky...) Unfortunately I can't send you this pdf because I have a message "request entity too large" :-( ---------- assignee: docs@python components: Documentation, Tkinter messages: 344549 nosy: docs@python, xameridu priority: normal severity: normal status: open title: link to official documentation tkinter failed !!! versions: Python 3.5, Python 3.6, Python 3.7, Python 3.8, Python 3.9 _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue37149> _______________________________________
Guilloux <bugs.python.org@guilloux-fr.net> added the comment: On the page https://docs.python.org/3/library/tkinter.html there is a link to "Tkinter reference: a GUI for Python" which is "https://infohost.nmt.edu/tcc/help/pubs/tkinter/web/index.html". BIG PROBLEM : Since several days this link doesn't work any more !!! It's really important to fix it because most of official online documentation about tkinter was provided by this way !!! Fortunately i have a copy of the documentation (cf pdf file). I have downloaded this file thanks to the website above just before the link was failed ! (Yes, i know, i'm lucky...) ---------- _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue37149> _______________________________________
Karthikeyan Singaravelan <tir.karthi@gmail.com> added the comment: A copy of the URL is present in archive.org [0] . Perhaps the docs could be updated with it. [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20190524140835/https://infohost.nmt.edu/tcc/help... ---------- nosy: +xtreak versions: -Python 3.5, Python 3.6 _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue37149> _______________________________________
Guilloux <bugs.python.org@guilloux-fr.net> added the comment: The comment of Karthikeyan Singaravelan seems to be a good idea. Question : is it possible to send a pdf (2.08 MB) to the python tracker ? ---------- _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue37149> _______________________________________
Change by Brett Cannon <brett@python.org>: ---------- nosy: +gpolo, serhiy.storchaka _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue37149> _______________________________________
Cheryl Sabella <cheryl.sabella@gmail.com> added the comment: This reference was hosted at a university called New Mexico Tech. I've been trying to determine if this server is just offline or if it's being sunsetted. Many google search results still point to infohost.mnt.edu or redirect to that page (not just the tkinter link). Also, their main webpage (www.nmt.edu) also has a search that redirects results to infohost, so those links are all broken as well. It seems to me that they just haven't stood up the new site yet or else they haven't changed their redirect, so I would assume that once they find they have broken links, they will fix this. However, I also found an article that the creator of the tkinter docs has passed away [1]. If the infohost subdomain was his, then they might be moving all of it. Anyway, I think we should leave the docs as they are for now with the hope they the university will fix the redirect. If it doesn't get resolved, then we probably need to reach out to them. Since the author is deceased, I'm not sure how it would work to try to host it somewhere else. It would be a shame to lose this valuable reference and work. [1] https://www.nmt.edu/news/2019/nmt_dedicates_shipman_plaque.php ---------- nosy: +cheryl.sabella _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue37149> _______________________________________
Guilloux <bugs.python.org@guilloux-fr.net> added the comment: I have read Cheryl Sabella's comment. So I have sent this e-mail : Objet: Request about a broken link on your website. Date: 2019-06-05 16:20 De: xavier@guilloux-fr.net À: thomas.guengerich@nmt.edu, webmaster@nmt.edu, help@nmt.edu Hello, For several days the link "https://infohost.nmt.edu/tcc/help/pubs/tkinter/web/index.html" has stopped working. But this link provided access to a prodigious technical documentation related to a Python language module (tkinter). Can you put this link back in working order (or place a redirect to the new link)? I draw your attention to the fact that this documentation contributes significantly to the international recognition of your university. Thanks a lot for the continuation that you will give to this request. Regards. Xavier Guilloux. (following is the same message but in my natural language - French -) Bonjour, Depuis plusieurs jours le lien "https://infohost.nmt.edu/tcc/help/pubs/tkinter/web/index.html" ne fonctionne plus. Or ce lien permettait d'accéder à une prodigieuse documentation technique en rapport avec un module du langage Python (tkinter). Pouvez-vous remettre ce lien en état de fonctionnement (ou placer une redirection vers le nouveau lien) ? J'attire votre attention sur le fait que cette documentation contribue de manière importante à la reconnaissance internationale de votre université. Merci par avance pour la suite que vous donnerez à cette requête. Cordialement. Xavier Guilloux. ---------- _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue37149> _______________________________________
Guilloux <bugs.python.org@guilloux-fr.net> added the comment: I have received the answer : Objet: Re: Request about a broken link on your website. Date: 2019-06-05 16:39 De: New Mexico Tech <help@nmt.edu> À: xavier@guilloux-fr.net Cc: thomas.guengerich@nmt.edu, webmaster@nmt.edu Hello, Unfortunately infohost.nmt.edu has been shut down and we will no longer be supporting that website. The website will not be coming back up. Sorry for the inconvenience. -Dorothy ITC-UC NMIMT Socorro, NM 87801 575-835-5700 ---------- _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue37149> _______________________________________
Change by Terry J. Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu>: ---------- Removed message: https://bugs.python.org/msg344550 _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue37149> _______________________________________
Change by Guilloux <bugs.python.org@guilloux-fr.net>: ---------- versions: +Python 2.7, Python 3.5, Python 3.6 _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue37149> _______________________________________
Change by Terry J. Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu>: ---------- keywords: +patch pull_requests: +14430 stage: -> patch review pull_request: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/14616 _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue37149> _______________________________________
Terry J. Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> added the comment: New changeset 45bc61b97178b27ae05bd3eb95481bf0325795bb by Terry Jan Reedy in branch 'master': bpo-37149: Replace dead link for online Tkinter reference (GH-14616) https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/45bc61b97178b27ae05bd3eb95481bf0325... ---------- nosy: +terry.reedy _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue37149> _______________________________________
Change by miss-islington <mariatta.wijaya+miss-islington@gmail.com>: ---------- pull_requests: +14431 pull_request: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/14617 _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue37149> _______________________________________
Change by miss-islington <mariatta.wijaya+miss-islington@gmail.com>: ---------- pull_requests: +14432 pull_request: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/14618 _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue37149> _______________________________________
Change by miss-islington <mariatta.wijaya+miss-islington@gmail.com>: ---------- pull_requests: +14433 pull_request: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/14619 _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue37149> _______________________________________
miss-islington <mariatta.wijaya+miss-islington@gmail.com> added the comment: New changeset d2c5677a4f3be7de572def0a914b96385d7982b0 by Miss Islington (bot) in branch '3.7': bpo-37149: Replace dead link for online Tkinter reference (GH-14616) https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/d2c5677a4f3be7de572def0a914b96385d7... ---------- nosy: +miss-islington _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue37149> _______________________________________
miss-islington <mariatta.wijaya+miss-islington@gmail.com> added the comment: New changeset ea9c8caa13977561787bf2de430f18c2031dde0d by Miss Islington (bot) in branch '3.8': bpo-37149: Replace dead link for online Tkinter reference (GH-14616) https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/ea9c8caa13977561787bf2de430f18c2031... ---------- _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue37149> _______________________________________
Terry J. Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> added the comment: Ned, PR-14616 replaces a dead link to the most important online Tkinter reference. Please consider cherry-picking the 3.7 backport (already merged) into the upcoming 3.7.4. Many people are lost without the reference, as they find reading the tcl/tk reference much harder. (The question has come up on Stackoverflow also.) I checked that the new link in the rebuilt revised page works. The longer term solution is a complete in-house doc. I have some ideas, which I will share later, for something more compact than the Shipman work (168 pages for the pdf). Ned, a separate question is whether the link fix or a local replacement can be backported to 3.6. It is like having half the tkinter doc, the part covering tk widgets, removed. ---------- nosy: +benjamin.peterson, larry, lukasz.langa, ned.deily -gpolo, miss-islington priority: normal -> release blocker stage: patch review -> _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue37149> _______________________________________
Terry J. Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> added the comment: The 2.7 backport shows a clean 2.7 diff, Travis merged and passed it, but required Appveyor just says 'non-mergeable' with no details, and no way to discover why or to cleanly retry. I will try close and open once. ---------- _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue37149> _______________________________________
Change by miss-islington <mariatta.wijaya+miss-islington@gmail.com>: ---------- pull_requests: +14434 stage: -> patch review pull_request: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/14620 _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue37149> _______________________________________
miss-islington <mariatta.wijaya+miss-islington@gmail.com> added the comment: New changeset 55270d09c212654c4f1bc9ebf9a0081c169a6d12 by Miss Islington (bot) in branch '2.7': bpo-37149: Replace dead link for online Tkinter reference (GH-14616) https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/55270d09c212654c4f1bc9ebf9a0081c169... ---------- nosy: +miss-islington _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue37149> _______________________________________
Ned Deily <nad@python.org> added the comment: New changeset 317c33e67cb6076c5a87a66c75e8c35ac581398d by Ned Deily in branch '3.6': bpo-37149: Replace dead link for online Tkinter reference (GH-14616) https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/317c33e67cb6076c5a87a66c75e8c35ac58... ---------- _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue37149> _______________________________________
Terry J. Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> added the comment: Larry, I have the same request of you that I did for Ned. Please backport PR-14616 to 3.5. It replaces a dead link to the most important online Tkinter reference. Many people are lost without the reference, as they find reading the tcl/tk reference much harder. It is like having half the tkinter doc, the part covering tk widgets, removed. (The question has come up on Stackoverflow also.) The replacement will benefit any 3.5 users looking at the online 3.5 docs. ---------- _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue37149> _______________________________________
Ned Deily <nad@python.org> added the comment: New changeset f2cbf41afc9e9a0ce16bfe0c71662348453a28c4 by Ned Deily (Miss Islington (bot)) in branch '3.7': bpo-37149: Replace dead link for online Tkinter reference (GH-14616) https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/f2cbf41afc9e9a0ce16bfe0c71662348453... ---------- _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue37149> _______________________________________
Ned Deily <nad@python.org> added the comment: A few comments on this. One, the Tkinter documentation in question seems to have been a personal project of John Shipman at New Mexico Tech and, as such, was not "official" so I've updated the issue title accordingly. Sadly, as Cheryl noted, John died two years ago and I guess there were no plans in place for someone to take the documentation over from him. We can all appreciate his very valuable contributions over the years by developing and maintaining this additional documentation. It would be great to find a way to provide an equivalent resource for Tk 8.6. The best alternatives today is probably Mark Roseman's TkDocs website and "Modern Tkinter" book/ebook, both also already linked on our Standard Library tkinter page. I've nosied Mark in case he has any thoughts on the matter. As far as updating the page in older releases, as 3.6 release manager I did decide to allow the update there, even though we normally would not make such a change for a security-fix-only release; I did so as we are still including 3.6 in our daily doc builds on docs.python.org (although at some point soon that will stop). It's Larry's call about 3.5 but note that the current 3.5 docs on docs.python.org are normally only updated when a new 3.5.x security-fix release appears. If you want it to be considered for 3.5, it would be best to make a 3.5 backport PR. ---------- nosy: +markroseman priority: release blocker -> title: link to official documentation tkinter failed !!! -> link to John Shipman's Tkinter 8.5 documentation fails: website no longer available _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue37149> _______________________________________
E. Paine <paineelisha@gmail.com> added the comment: I know I'm a bit late, but I believe the site is now being hosted on a Gtihub page: https://anzeljg.github.io/rin2/book2/2405/docs/tkinter/index.html I suspect this is another personal project just for historical reference and will not be updated, however I would (personally) prefer not to be linked to the Wayback Machine. ---------- nosy: +epaine _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue37149> _______________________________________
Mark Roseman <mark@markroseman.com> added the comment: Hello, also (very) late to this party. If this would be useful, and unless anyone has any objections, I'd be open to hosting a copy of John's material on tkdocs.com. I'd add a header to each page explaining it's an unmaintained archive with all the usual caveats. That would at least provide a stable place to link to. ---------- _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue37149> _______________________________________
Terry J. Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> added the comment: Pending improving the our docs, I would like to replace the Archive link, which is slow to respond. Issue: there is no copyright notice. Once might expect it to belong to NMT, but they seem to have disowned it by removing the web pages. The dead links should be removed from any copy. The .pdf line in the does work at this moment. If not a work-for-hire, the copyright belonged to Shipman, and now his estate. I would not add it to the PSF site without formal permission, but I don't see why linking to one unauthorized copy versus another would make much difference. ---------- versions: +Python 3.10 -Python 2.7, Python 3.6, Python 3.7 _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue37149> _______________________________________
Change by Terry J. Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu>: ---------- stage: patch review -> needs patch versions: -Python 3.5 _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue37149> _______________________________________
Mark Roseman <mark@markroseman.com> added the comment: I've posted a copy at https://tkdocs.com/shipman/ I've lightly modified it to add a site header and explanation of where the material comes from and caveats about age to each page, and have removed or crossed out dead links, requests for feedback, etc. I agree with Terry's assessment of the copyright issues. While I don't expect anyone with a valid claim to contact me about the mirrored copy, I'd be happy to address any concerns if they do arise. If this all seems okay, I would very greatly appreciate if someone could update the links in the Python documentation for all the relevant branches and shepherd that through the approval process. ---------- _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue37149> _______________________________________
Change by Mark Roseman <mark@markroseman.com>: ---------- pull_requests: +21249 stage: needs patch -> patch review pull_request: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/22188 _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue37149> _______________________________________
Terry J. Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> added the comment: New changeset 06d0b8b67e8aebd8fe4c34e97d6915c11f4afa30 by Mark Roseman in branch 'master': bpo-37149: Change Shipman tkinter link from archive.org to TkDocs (GH-22188) https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/06d0b8b67e8aebd8fe4c34e97d6915c11f4... ---------- _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue37149> _______________________________________
Change by miss-islington <mariatta.wijaya+miss-islington@gmail.com>: ---------- pull_requests: +21253 pull_request: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/22192 _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue37149> _______________________________________
Change by miss-islington <mariatta.wijaya+miss-islington@gmail.com>: ---------- pull_requests: +21254 pull_request: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/22193 _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue37149> _______________________________________
miss-islington <mariatta.wijaya+miss-islington@gmail.com> added the comment: New changeset 1b4bdb4cd71df6339da3f247516e0c642f40c37e by Miss Islington (bot) in branch '3.9': bpo-37149: Change Shipman tkinter link from archive.org to TkDocs (GH-22188) https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/1b4bdb4cd71df6339da3f247516e0c642f4... ---------- _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue37149> _______________________________________
Terry J. Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> added the comment: New changeset 8a30bdd21dff6d1957df135c9d0b9983a0f61228 by Miss Islington (bot) in branch '3.8': bpo-37149: Change Shipman tkinter link from archive.org to TkDocs (GH-22188) (#22193) https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/8a30bdd21dff6d1957df135c9d0b9983a0f... ---------- _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue37149> _______________________________________
Terry J. Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> added the comment: The tkdocs pages load in less than a second rather than in several seconds, have the obsolete link lined out, and include a short explanatory note. So I made the replacement. Ned, please backport to 3.7 and 3.6 if still built nightly. ---------- resolution: -> fixed stage: patch review -> resolved versions: +Python 3.6, Python 3.7 _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue37149> _______________________________________
Ned Deily <nad@python.org> added the comment: In general, we do not backport documentation changes to branches in the security-fix phase of their life cycles and their online versions are only updated for a release. ---------- status: open -> closed versions: -Python 3.6, Python 3.7 _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue37149> _______________________________________
participants (9)
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Brett Cannon -
Cheryl Sabella
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E. Paine
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Guilloux
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Karthikeyan Singaravelan
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Mark Roseman
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miss-islington
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Ned Deily
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Terry J. Reedy