[issue40733] mention IDLE in main python ocs page

New submission from paul rubin <phr-pythonbugs@nightsong.com>: The IDLE documentation is in https://docs.python.org/3/library/idle.html which is not where I'd have thought to look for it, since I think of IDLE as an application rather than a library. So I looked for it on the main docs page, docs.python.org, and didn't find it there. I ended up finding it by web search. I guess its current location is reasonable, but maybe a link to it could be included in docs.python.org's main page left side navigation panel, or IDLE could simply be mentioned in the entry for library documentation. ---------- assignee: docs@python components: Documentation messages: 369640 nosy: docs@python, phr priority: normal severity: normal status: open title: mention IDLE in main python ocs page type: enhancement _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue40733> _______________________________________

Change by Ned Deily <nad@python.org>: ---------- components: +IDLE nosy: +terry.reedy _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue40733> _______________________________________

Change by paul rubin <phr-pythonbugs@nightsong.com>: ---------- title: mention IDLE in main python ocs page -> mention IDLE in main python docs page _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue40733> _______________________________________

Terry J. Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> added the comment: I agree that finding the online doc is slight pain. It is not listed in the Modules index because idlelib, not IDLE, is the stdlib module, and does not have a doc page. I may add one or, if possible, make the page serve as one, as part of this issue. 'IDLE' *is* in the Index, and the first link is the correct one. I don't control and would not unilaterally change the main page. I am hesitant because I expect that there are people who would think it unfair or deceptive to especially promote IDLE this way versus other stdlib packages and non-stdlib IDEs and editors. I might subscribe to and post on python-ideas to see what other users think. Help => IDLE Help displays an offline copy of idle.html as of the release date in a tktinker text window. Have you noticed that? Would "IDLE doc" be clearer? I could also add label with the online url and date above the text. [https://docs.python.org/3.x/library/idle.html as of <release date>] ---------- nosy: +taleinat stage: -> needs patch title: mention IDLE in main python docs page -> Make IDLE doc more visible, mention in main python docs page versions: +Python 3.10, Python 3.7, Python 3.8, Python 3.9 _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue40733> _______________________________________

I could also add label with the online url and date above the text. [https://docs.python.org/3.x/library/idle.html as of <release date>]
Maybe this is a bit messy?
I may be wrong but I suspect that most people on docs.python.org use none dev versions. For us, most likely, we keep to the releases (maybe behind the very current version, but unlikely that we are compiling in the latest bug fixes, or (and here I could be absolutely wrong) pulling from a distribution that is). (If they are compiling their own Python with bug fixes, is it fair to assume they are also preparing their own documentation? Not sure.) Say I am using Python 3.7.5, the documentation, being for Python 3.7.7, is (hopefully?) sufficient for me to know it is not the same as the IDLE I am using - the addition of the date may help emphasize the point, but chances are I don't track the release schedule/know when my IDLE was packaged for me and so it may only further confuse me. I suggest that if the page has the release version don't also provide the "as of <release date>" . Now if Documentation for all patchlevels were available ... but I suspect that may not be possible. Thinking about it though Paul said: So I looked for it on the main docs page, docs.python.org, and didn't find it there. I ended up finding it by web search.
From 3.5 there is a search on the top right of docs.python.org: @phr is that what you meant by web search or did you use google/bing/etc? Most likely many people use the search to find what they want from docs.python.org ... or it is hardly used. On Sat, May 23, 2020 at 4:14 AM Terry J. Reedy <report@bugs.python.org> wrote:
Terry J. Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> added the comment:
I agree that finding the online doc is slight pain. It is not listed in the Modules index because idlelib, not IDLE, is the stdlib module, and does not have a doc page. I may add one or, if possible, make the page serve as one, as part of this issue. 'IDLE' *is* in the Index, and the first link is the correct one.
I don't control and would not unilaterally change the main page. I am hesitant because I expect that there are people who would think it unfair or deceptive to especially promote IDLE this way versus other stdlib packages and non-stdlib IDEs and editors. I might subscribe to and post on python-ideas to see what other users think.
Help => IDLE Help displays an offline copy of idle.html as of the release date in a tktinker text window. Have you noticed that? Would "IDLE doc" be clearer?
I could also add label with the online url and date above the text. [https://docs.python.org/3.x/library/idle.html as of <release date>]
---------- nosy: +taleinat stage: -> needs patch title: mention IDLE in main python docs page -> Make IDLE doc more visible, mention in main python docs page versions: +Python 3.10, Python 3.7, Python 3.8, Python 3.9
_______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue40733> _______________________________________ _______________________________________________ docs mailing list -- docs@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to docs-leave@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/docs.python.org/ Member address: amaajemyfren@gmail.com

paul rubin <phr-pythonbugs@nightsong.com> added the comment: I think I used duckduckgo to find the docs. They don't change much between versions and I was trying to find how to do a specific thing. My installation has the docs included but it didn't explain how to do what I wanted, so I had hoped there was a more complete doc on docs.python.org. Unfortunately it turned out to be the same doc. The functionality I wanted (to put a startup script in .idlerc) seems to not exist though. I'll research workarounds a bit further and possibly open an RFE if people think that sounds right. ---------- _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue40733> _______________________________________

Ama Aje My Fren <amaajemyfren@gmail.com> added the comment:
I think I used duckduckgo to find the docs.
Ok, I just checked and when one has scrolled down the search is not seen. In most browsers web search is easier than searching on the docs site. ---------- Added file: https://bugs.python.org/file49186/docs.python.org.png _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue40733> _______________________________________

Terry J. Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> added the comment: Ama, when responding by email, please leave out the full quote of the message you are responding to. (A snippet of at most a few lines is ok.) Once posted, it becomes redundant noise. ---------- _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue40733> _______________________________________

Terry J. Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> added the comment: Paul, the doc has the following line -s run $IDLESTARTUP or $PYTHONSTARTUP before anything else ---------- _______________________________________ Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org> <https://bugs.python.org/issue40733> _______________________________________
participants (5)
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Ama Aje My Fren
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Ama Aje My Fren
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Ned Deily
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paul rubin
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Terry J. Reedy