Mailman 3 October 2000 - Edu-sig

Now I went and did it.
by Arthur Siegel Oct. 9, 2000

Oct. 9, 2000

Kirby - >In any case, if nothing else, I think PyGeo proved a central >tenet of this list, which is that Python is a great ladder into >higher level programming for people relatively new to the >discipline (which you've subsequently developed). You've made >this point as well. I think you once called me a poster boy for Python as a first language. I hope so. I do all this very part-time - and am out there doing some decent Java stuff at this point - the step from Python to Java having been pretty painless. Which is among the reasons I remain devoted to the concept of introducing programming via Python - and despite my (considerable) frustrations on the EDU-SIG list. ART

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JPython and CP4E
by Arthur Siegel Oct. 9, 2000

Oct. 9, 2000

Kirby wrote: >Is your sense that the JPython community is actively moving ahead, >or is it on a steady-state plateau? I'm afraid that's another touchy one with me. Suffice it to say that JPython would be essentially finished, IMO, were it not for the work of one superuser in the community - Finn Bock. More below. Other than Finn it is a story without heroes, IMO. PythonLabs seems to take the position that the CNRI trademark, copyright, license control prevents them from moving forward with JPython, though they very much want to. Unfortunately that doesn't fully explain the neglect of JPython during the last six months of the tenure of the PythonLabs guys at CNRI. I saw Hitchcock's Rebecca last night. For those who understand the reference I see a close analogy between Rebecca's room a year after her death, and the JPython.org site a year after Jim Huginin's departure from CNRI. Hopefully the denouement is upon us. Recent statements by BeOpen seem to be a commitment to attend to JPython, one way or another, as first priority after the release of Python2.0 final. For my part, I have recently sent a note to Dr. Kahn of CNRI pleading for some action that would realistically provide for JPython's future. If CNRI wants to control JPython to let it die, it seems a sad and spiteful thing to do. My note to Dr. Kahn was my best effort at diplomacy on the issue - though any impact is doubtful. >E.g. where are we with being able to use Python 2.0 features (e.g. zip >(sequence,sequence and [f(x) for x in sequence] ). Finn Bock maintains a site at sourceforge on which he releases "errata". Up to errata8, the releases were essentially bug fixes to JPython1.1 "final" - another Kremlin watcher issue, the release of JPython1.1beta as final. Finn's errata9 adds Python2.0 compatibility features. I haven't used it and can't answer specifcs, however. ART

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PPP
by Jason Cunliffe Oct. 9, 2000

Oct. 9, 2000

Well over lunch, I came up with a really crazy idea. I was reading 'A UML Pattern Language' and contemplating the question of poly-fix syntaxes - ways to engage spoken written and language with programming for everyone... Paul Evitts closes by quoting a short section of T.S.Elliot ['Little Gidding', 'V'] http://www.umlpatterns.com/sys-tmpl/door/ ------------------------------------------- What we call the beginning is often the end And to make an end is to make a beginning. The end is where we start from. And every phrase And sentence that is right ... is an end and a beginning. ...history is a pattern Of timeless moments. We shall not cease from exploration And the end of all our exploring Will be to arrive where we started And know the place for the first time. Through the unknown, remembered gate ------------------------------------------- PPP = The Python Poetry Project How about translating this into Python?..... I know at first it seems like sacrilege, but why not? There are many 'famous' lines and songs and not-so famous ones also which might be great candidates for bridging heart and science. an eclectic test cliché list might include: -Nursery rhymes -Star-Spangled Banner - Genesis 1 [compare alternate translations: http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?] -Hamlet - ["To be or not to be"] -Rap song <insert class favorite here> -Pop song <insert class favorite here> - Ballad http://theband.hiof.no/lyrics/long_black_veil.html -Proust [Madeleine meme] other poems http://www.english.upenn.edu/~afilreis/88/stevens-13ways.html How do you relate to the kids in the CP4E class who love and know music & literature..? How do help kids see the poetry in programming? True, this is a risky experiment and could backfire. On the other hand it could open up the idea of programming for everyone, and help to show how we are always programming, especially when we use language. your improvements most welcome -Jason ________________________________________________________________ Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology'].DesignDirector PS. ..the edited quote starts thus: V What we call the beginning is often the end And to make an end is to make a beginning. The end is where we start from. And every phrase And sentence that is right (where every word is at home, Taking its place to support the others, The word neither diffident nor ostentatious, An easy commerce of the old and the new, The common word exact without vulgarity, The formal word precise but not pedantic, The complete consort dancing together) Every phrase and every sentence is an end and a beginning, Every poem an epitaph. And any action Is a step to the block, to the fire, down the sea's throat Or to an illegible stone: and that is where we start. We die with the dying: See, they depart, and we go with them. We are born with the dead: See, they return, and bring us with them. The moment of the rose and the moment of the yew-tree Are of equal duration. A people without history Is not redeemed from time, for history is a pattern Of timeless moments. So, while the light fails On a winter's afternoon, in a secluded chapel History is now and England. With the drawing of this Love and the voice of this Calling We shall not cease from exploration And the end of all our exploring Will be to arrive where we started And know the place for the first time. Through the unknown, remembered gate. ... In its entirety at http://www.bath.ac.uk/~bspajs/labyrinth/LittleGidd.html http://www.mindspring.com/~rrbarnes/poetry/gidding.html

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JPython and CP4E
by Arthur Siegel Oct. 9, 2000

Oct. 9, 2000

L. Humbert wrote: >Isn't it possible to tell, where to find *.jar, so everyone interested, >can study it with Python Unfortunately I don't currently have a site to do that. But I'll work on it and get it done and let folks know. As it happens I am quite a JPython advocate myself and glad to see it mentioned on the CP4E list and to find that people are in fact working with it in an educational context. For starters, the kind of list of Python resources that Jason recently posted up for graphics expands exponentially when one includes the ability to use JPython. Java3D, for example, is very well accessible to Python code via JPython. The reality is that there are vaster Java than Python resources in most every category. I found it liberating to know I could explore the Java world of resources while staying close to home, being Python. I am trying to design what I am doing in Java to be easily scriptable in JPython - the beauty being that if your Java classes are designed to qualify as beans, than you can use normal Python keyword syntax to set the class's attributes on initialization. (I think I said that right). ART

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JPython and CP4E ... some thoughts ... little documentation
by L. Humbert Oct. 9, 2000

Oct. 9, 2000

Hi, asiegel(a)eico.com -- ART wrote: Jason> >Please, I would also like to see your Java examples. ART> ART> I'll send you JavaGeo with some demos under seperate cover. Isn't it possible to tell, where to find *.jar, so everyone interested, can study it with JPython? Please, take a closer look to JPython: http://www.JPython.org You will be able to use Java-classes from within JPython, so you can embed ready to use classes in your Pythoncode. I'm working in this way using a class-library in teaching informatics at secondary II level (my school is working with iMacs, Kirby (;-) You may take a look at this: http://region.hagen.de/OOP/ "JPython und das Java-Paket (hier ist nur SuM.jar nötig) können sofort eingesetzt werden. Material aus einem laufenden 11er Kurs (enthält SuM.jar und Hilfen für die Arbeit mit JPython)." This means: you'll get a ready to use packet and you get some material for to use it in the classroom. The curriculum is based on the idea on objectoriented modeling including programming -- there are other implementations of the really small class-library in pascal, oberon, etc. the course-material -- not depending on a special programming-language -- is published in german: @BOOK{Czischke1999, PUBLISHER = {DruckVerlag Kettler GmbH}, YEAR = 1999, EDITOR = {{Landesinstitut f{\"u}r Schule und Weiterbildung}}, ADDRESS = {B{\"o}nen}, ANNOTE = {ISBN 3-8165-4165-8}, TITLE = {Von Stiften und M{\"a}usen}, AUTHOR = {J{\"u}rgen Czischke and Georg Dick and Horst Hildebrecht and Ludger Humbert and Werner Ueding and Klaus Wallos} } You may take a look L. Humbert

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Re: [Edu-sig] Teaching Middle-School Math with Python
by Steve Litt Oct. 9, 2000

Oct. 9, 2000

I've heard excellent things about logo. Is there a Linux port? Steve At 12:24 PM 10/6/00 -0400, Randy Latimer wrote: >I know it's an old old language, probably in the ancient >"has-been" status, but Logo was a nice intro programming language in a >style other than the "standard" way of programming (fortran, basic, >pascal, c, c++, java etc) that almost took off. >I still like it, but I'm >an old guy. >Randy Latimer > >On Fri, 6 Oct 2000, Fred Bartlett wrote: > >> Has anyone had any success in changing public-school math curricula at >> the middle-school level? >> >> I've been busily learning Python while my daughter has been busily >> learning 6th-grade math. The contrast between the two experiences is >> considerable: I can learn Python in a clear, clean, organized way; my >> daughter can't learn math that way -- well, she _could_, but her >> textbook militates against it. >> >> Her textbook takes a "problem-solving" approach and teaches "high-level" >> thinking. By this they mean, I think, large numbers of word problems. >> That would be fine, of course, if they did it right. But they seem to be >> teaching heuristics rather than algorithms -- that is, each kind of >> problem is treated as if it were sui generis. >> >> I was especially saddened -- and motivated -- when she asked me, "How >> could anyone ever be interested in this stuff?" >> >> I began to muse that an introduction to programming could both help kids >> see the connections among types of problems and provide a salutary dose >> of rigor to the curriculum. (Donald Knuth said somewhere that one can't >> really be sure that one understands something until one can teach a >> computer to do it.) >> >> The only other languages I found in my web searches used below the >> college level were Java, C/C++, (Visual)Basic, and Scheme -- none of >> which would be appropriate at the level I'm contemplating. But Python, >> for all its virtues, is a relatively obscure language. It's a good bet >> that no one at the Board of Ed has heard of it! >> >> Meanwhile, I found out about our "technology" curriculum from middle >> through high school: It's all Microsoft, so we're paying tens or >> hundreds of thousands of dollars for license fees. (I'm sure no one here >> will defend that practice!) I would like to change that, too. >> >> Kirby Urner has done some interesting things with algebra and beyond; >> but I didn't find any pre-algebra math at his site. >> >> Hans Magnus Enzensberger's _The Number Devil_ contains the kind of math >> I'm looking for: simple -- but interesting! -- applications of basic >> arithmetic on the integers (and, soon enough, the reals). >> >> So -- any hints for me out there? >> >> Thanks! >> Fred >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Edu-sig mailing list >> Edu-sig(a)python.org >> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig >> > > >_______________________________________________ >Edu-sig mailing list >Edu-sig(a)python.org >http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig >

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Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] Now I went and did it
by Daniel Yoo Oct. 9, 2000

Oct. 9, 2000

> At 04:15 PM 10/8/00 -0400, you wrote: > >I find myself become more of an instant nutcase than testcase when I look at > >even this trivial example: > > > >(define (area-of-disk r) > > (* 3.14 (* r r))) > > > >A voice inside my head starts saying "No. Stop no!" > > Jason, > I've been programming C since 1984, and my reaction is identical to yours. > Whatever that thing is, it's not normal C/Python/Perl/fortran syntax, nor > is it reverse polish as far as I can see. I cannot *even imagine* how a kid > would understand that syntax. Personally, I'd feel much better if it were I'm a Python user, but I'll try to defend Scheme in this respect, because I really believe in Scheme's beauty. *grin* I think part of what feels weird is the training we have, in both our languages and in math classes, in distinguishing between regular functions, (sin(x), exp(e), ...) and infix operators (+, *, ...). Many languages make this distinction --- Scheme is one of the languages that doesn't. Scheme syntax makes a lot more sense when you consider everything to be a regular function. For example, let's rename the '*' "operator" to a function called 'multiply': (define multiply *) ;; just a renaming (define pi 3.14) ;; another renaming (define (square r) (multiply r r)) ;; for convenience (define (area-of-disk r) (multiply pi (square r)) Also, by not making the math functions as explicitly binary infix operators, it allows one to express: "multiply 2, 3, 4, and 5" as (* 2 3 4 5) which is pretty nice, I think. Hopefully, this makes it a little more explicity that Scheme uniformly treats all functions the same, even the infix math operators.

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Now I went and did it
by asiegel＠eico.com Oct. 8, 2000

Oct. 8, 2000

Jason wrote - >Yes I'd love to.. my idea for GeoLogo or PyTurtle as Kirby suggested.... PyGeo is plain old geometry - though not plain old plane geometry. I've already fought this battle with Kirby. I believe geometry education should recapitulate the historical development - for many reasons. Among them - the best sense I have of the history of civilization is through some understanding of a history of geometry's development. I would go further and say that in many ways that is precisely the importance of geometry study - and the same was true in Euclid's time. Euclid was a summing up, and a history lesson in its time - the way I look at it . It was interesting to me that Stephen Figgins' take on Kirby's curriculum in some way re-iterated my own. Its elementary programming, elementary math, and advanced geometry. Doesn't seem advanced to Kirby because he understands it. But I am convinced he is starting in the middle of the geometry story, and folks, especially young folks, have no way to follow him there. Its almost as if he is asking to be taken on faith. I think it is holding back acceptance of his curriculum - but again I've told him that already. The one significant place I continue to not be onboard with Kirby. He seems to live gracefully with that, and so can I. >If people in some necks of some woods don't believe a change is gonna come, >in others such as Asia, and in Korea for certain, they are wasting not a >single moment to take advantage. As it happens I spent some time last fall working in Beirut (little scary for a nice Jewish boy) with a large private educational institution - more on business than on curriculum matters (the endowment is controlled in the US) . But did get to talk with the folks doing technology in the classroom stuff, and I can assure they are ahead of what I've seen here. Using Geometer's SkecthPad, for example , as a matter of course. >Please, I would also like to see your Java examples. I'll send you JavaGeo with some demos under seperate cover. ART

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Now I went and did it.
by Arthur Siegel Oct. 8, 2000

Oct. 8, 2000

Jason wrote: >2.2 Geometer' Sketch Pad Interactive geometry type applications. >What I am thinking of is the things which let you directly play hands on >with lines and circles and develop a really intuitive feel for geometry. >Sort of like these: >http://www.maths.gla.ac.uk/~wws/cabripages/inversive/inversive0.html >http://java.wiwi.uni-frankfurt.de:8080/java/owa/jr_qurres?>vappletno=3144 >[Sorry cant find any more precise references right now] How about it we took the concept further, were truly innovative and extended the concept to 3d. My precise references is http://www.python.org/sigs/edu-sig/ wherein is mentioned: PyGeo Dynamic geometry software in the tradition of Texas Instruments' Cabri Geometry II(TM) and The Geometer's Sketchpad from Key Curriculum Press, but extended to 3D - written in Python using the PyOpenGL and NumPy extensions. By Arthur Siegel. I keep vowing to myself to stay off the list, but this is too frustrating to let go. Withdrawn from the market do to lack of interest - for reasons I never understood. And then the concept mentioned on a EDU-SIG wishlist of things that sound great and nobody will every actually do - except that this one has actually been started in a significant way. Too frustrating. Oh well.... Actually have redone it as web-enabled Java. Cool stuff in my humble estimation for anybody interested in geometry, integrated with exposure to programming - the code is simple and explorable. The analytic geometry behind the code sometimes gets a bit hairy - but the link between analytic and synthetic geometry is now made direct and concrete through the code. Something only accomplishable through an opensource approach - which is why the approach leaves the commercial efforts in the dust, as a pedagogical tool. Don't know how to generate interest, though. Certainly never accomplished it here. ART

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Re: Computer Science Curriculum Grades 7-10
by Jeffrey Elkner Oct. 8, 2000

Oct. 8, 2000

Beginning last year, Yorktown High School in Arlington, Virginia switched to Python as the language for its introductory computer science courses. A little over a year later we have more students taking the class and achieving greater success than they were before the switch. Python is a language ideally suited to teaching people to program. It is a modern, object oriented language which can be used to teach the lastest programming concepts. At the same time, it has a beautifully elegant syntax that greatly reduces the difficulties in teaching programming concepts. Even more wonderful, it is an interpreted language with a development environment that allows beginners immediate feedback from the environment. This encourages the use of "discovery" approaches to learning. Functions and modules can be added and explored during run time. Python is freely available on almost any platform you can think of (we use Linux), and can be downloaded at: http://www.python.org There is also a discussion group which is beginning to address the challange of using Python as a teaching language. jeff elkner yorktown high school arlington, va > I want to build the enrollment in my Computer Science and AP Computer > Science classes, and am wondering what you are teaching or offering for > "computer science" type classes for 7-10th graders. Does anyone offer > classes before Computer Science and AP Computer Science? What classes are > you teaching? What material are you covering? > Is anyone offering a "scripting" language course (HTML, JavaScript, etc)? > I am also curious if your school district is doing anything in the K-6 > grades to build interest in programming. > Is any school district still teaching LOGO? If so what grade level and what > are you covering. > Thanks for your reply. > > > Dave > > > Dave Clausen > La Canada High School > 4463 Oak Grove Drive > La Canada, CA 91011

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