Mailman 3 October 2003 - Edu-sig

Re: [Edu-sig] Design Pattern question
by Simon Burton Oct. 20, 2003

Oct. 20, 2003

> >I wondered if anyone had ideas about a design pattern I've been playing >with. Is it perverse? > No, it seems reasonable enough. I sometimes use an Id class with a "next_id": class Id: next_id = 0 def __init__(self): self.id = Id.next_id Id.next_id += 1 and then inherit from Id wherever i need unique (small) id's. Your idea is rather more funky, but what else are class variables for? Simon Burton.

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java
by Gerrit Holl Oct. 20, 2003

Oct. 20, 2003

Hello, at least three universities in The Netherlands use Java to teach programming to non-CS-student. Is this bad? yours, Gerrit Holl. -- 282. If a slave say to his master: "You are not my master," if they convict him his master shall cut off his ear. -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law -- Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering: http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/ Kom in verzet tegen dit kabinet: http://www.sp.nl/

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java
by Christine A. Shannon Oct. 16, 2003

Oct. 16, 2003

At Centre College we have been teaching CS I using Python for over three years. I reported on the course at the last ACM SIGCSE meeting: Shannon, Christine, "Another Breadth-first Approach to CS I using Python," Proceedings of the Thirty-Fourth SIGCSE Technical Symposium on Computer Science Education, Reno, Nevada, February 19-22, 2003, pp. 248-251. In the second course - which is primarily a data structures course -- we use Java. Students find it much harder but of course we also solve much harder problems. There is a learning curve -- but students know the basics of programming and now have to learn a new syntax with lots of extra rules like declaring variables, interfaces, Comparable Objects etc. I know I would not want to be teaching this to students who are only marginally interested in CS. Most students in our introductory course are taking it because their major requires it or because they want to learn something about computers. The breadth first course we teach is much more appropriate for them and still serves the needs of our majors. Many students resort to Python in later courses where they are free to choose a programming language. Christine Shannon Margaret V. Haggin Professor of Mathematics and Computer Science Centre College 600 W. Walnut Danville, KY 40422 859 238 5406 -----Original Message----- From: edu-sig-request(a)python.org [mailto:edu-sig-request@python.org] Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 7:59 PM To: edu-sig(a)python.org Subject: Edu-sig Digest, Vol 3, Issue 13 Send Edu-sig mailing list submissions to edu-sig(a)python.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to edu-sig-request(a)python.org You can reach the person managing the list at edu-sig-owner(a)python.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Edu-sig digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: java (luby liao) 2. Re: java (Gerrit Holl) 3. Re: java (Jason Cunliffe) 4. RE: java (Kirby Urner) 5. Re: java - 2 examples (Jason Cunliffe) 6. RE: java (Danny Yoo) 7. RE: java (Kirby Urner) 8. Re: java (Jason Cunliffe) 9. interactive languages (Jason Cunliffe) 10. Re: java (Jaime E. Villate) 11. Re: java (Terry Hancock) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 09:17:25 -0700 From: luby liao <liao(a)sandiego.edu> Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] java To: Gerrit Holl <gerrit(a)nl.linux.org> Cc: edu-sig(a)python.org Message-ID: <3F8D7315.40903(a)sandiego.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Gerrit, do you know what unviersities? Are they important universities? What are their wisdom? cheers, Luby -- Luby Liao, Department of Math/CS, University of San Diego, San Diego, CA 92110 (619)260-4021(O), (858)452-7644(H), (619)260-4293(fax) 'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: All mimsy were the borogroves And the mome raths outgrabe -- L.C. >Hello, > >at least three universities in The Netherlands >use Java to teach programming to non-CS-student. > >Is this bad? > >yours, >Gerrit Holl. > > > ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 18:26:29 +0200 From: Gerrit Holl <gerrit(a)nl.linux.org> Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] java To: edu-sig(a)python.org Message-ID: <20031015162629.GA4604(a)nl.linux.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii luby liao wrote: > Gerrit, do you know what unviersities? Are they important > universities? What are their wisdom? cheers, Luby I am a physics student, and next year, I will be teached Java. The same is true for (at least) Chemists and Elektrotechnicians. I am at the University of Twente, and I know that the Vrije Universititeit also teaches programming with Java. I'm not sure whether the Universiteit van Amsterdam also uses Java to teach physisians programming. In The Netherlands, there is not a big difference between more and less important universities. My father (Ruby'ist) doesn't understand why universities do so. I think he is over-aggerating when he compares Java with Cobol, both being used in companies a lot, but I do understand that Java is lower-level so less useful in physics? yours, Gerrit. -- 190. If a man does not maintain a child that he has adopted as a son and reared with his other children, then his adopted son may return to his father's house. -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law -- Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering: http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/ Kom in verzet tegen dit kabinet: http://www.sp.nl/ ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 13:02:38 -0400 From: "Jason Cunliffe" <jason.cunliffe(a)verizon.net> Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] java To: "Gerrit Holl" <gerrit(a)nl.linux.org> Cc: edu-sig(a)python.org Message-ID: <007301c3933e$23979d20$6501a8c0@vaio> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > at least three universities in The Netherlands > use Java to teach programming to non-CS-student. > > Is this bad? No - Not "bad".. [but it depends what you mean by bad] Learning any widely used computer language is a good thing, especially if it is well taught ;-) Learning several languages over time is even better ! An common argument is about which language makes a good beginning. Is this your first programming language ? What skills/experience/interest do you have now? When considering languages I think it is very important to consider the size and quality or community and resources around them. This social collaborative environment is as essential as the specific technical features. Python for example has a great community who contribute quality learning and code openly and generously. Java has some of that also, though perhaps more mixed up with commercial context. Java is very widely used, and increasingly so for sophisticated apps and frameworks for many communications and scientific software. Java-based tools can also be used with others very effectively. One example is Jython which offers a bridge between and benefits of both Java and Python. Java can be initially very verbose compared to some other languages. That is why many people prefer languages like Python or Ruby. Because they are considered more concise, more readable, more elegant, more fun, [insert-your-own-preference-here], etc. But beauty is in the eye of the maker, and the beholder. So many levels and ways of approaching progamming, that it is best to keep a very open mind to these issues. Experience will make it easier to decide what you like and why. Java syntax and features are very similar to a number of modern langauges. So even if you don't continue long with it, you will gain many valuable core skills you can apply elsewhere. An excellent book discussed here not long ago is "Head First Java". http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/hfjava/ http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0596004656/002-6665319-353 3633?v=glance good luck - Jason ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:20:39 -0700 From: "Kirby Urner" <urnerk(a)qwest.net> Subject: RE: [Edu-sig] java To: "'Gerrit Holl'" <gerrit(a)nl.linux.org>, edu-sig(a)python.org Message-ID: <E1A9pJw-0005nD-8T(a)mail.python.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I think there's a trend in many US colleges and universities towards using dynamic languages for non-CS course, vs. the more static ones. Static languages require declaring variable types before use and are generally a lot stricter, and therefore take somewhat longer to learn. If I had to choose one over the other, I'd take Python over Java. Students would be more productive more quickly and it's easier to teach. Static languages include: Java, C, C++, C#, Pascal, ocaml Dynamic languages include: Python, Perl, Ruby, FoxPro That being said, Java is a capable, contemporary language and the skills one learns are transferable to other languages. For more readings see: http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=4639 http://altis.pycs.net/2003/05/02.html Kirby > -----Original Message----- > From: edu-sig-bounces+urnerk=qwest.net(a)python.org [mailto:edu-sig- > bounces+urnerk=qwest.net(a)python.org] On Behalf Of Gerrit Holl > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 8:25 AM > To: edu-sig(a)python.org > Subject: [Edu-sig] java > > Hello, > > at least three universities in The Netherlands > use Java to teach programming to non-CS-student. > > Is this bad? > > yours, > Gerrit Holl. ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 13:26:38 -0400 From: "Jason Cunliffe" <jason.cunliffe(a)verizon.net> Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] java - 2 examples To: "Gerrit Holl" <gerrit(a)nl.linux.org> Cc: edu-sig(a)python.org Message-ID: <008c01c39341$7e3892e0$6501a8c0@vaio> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Two examples of very cool software written in Java for science student: JSyn http://www.softsynth.com/jsyn/ Vis-Ad http://www.ssec.wisc.edu/~billh/visad.html enjoy -Jason ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:12:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Danny Yoo <dyoo(a)hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu> Subject: RE: [Edu-sig] java To: Kirby Urner <urnerk(a)qwest.net> Cc: edu-sig(a)python.org, 'Gerrit Holl' <gerrit(a)nl.linux.org> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310151049410.4726-100000(a)hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > Static languages require declaring variable types before use and are > generally a lot stricter, and therefore take somewhat longer to learn. [some text cut] > Static languages include: Java, C, C++, C#, Pascal, ocaml Hi Kirby, I do have to disagree about clumping OCaml in with those other languages. OCaml (and the ML languages) are strictly typed, but their type systems are much more intelligent than traditional "typed" languages. Unlike Java, C, C++, C#, and Pascal, OCaml will perform proper type inference; in almost all cases, types won't have to be explicitely written out. For example: (******) # let rec length list = if list = [] then 0 else 1 + length (List.tl list);; val length : 'a list -> int = <fun> (******) This length() function takes a list of any type, and knows that it'll return an integer. Nothing here requires the programmer to explicitly declare variable types -- it'll work on lists of strings just as well as on lists of integers. (******) # length ["hello"; "world"];; - : int = 2 # length [1;2;3;4;5];; - : int = 5 (******) And, like Python, OCaml's types will follow values, not names: (******) # let age = "forty-two";; val age : string = "forty-two" # let age = 42;; val age : int = 42 (******) OCaml has a lot of the good features of a "dynamic" language, including a interactive interpreter. And although its syntax is a little wacky, that shouldn't be an excuse to aggregate it with the likes of Java. *grin* > If I had to choose one over the other, I'd take Python over Java. > Students would be more productive more quickly and it's easier to teach. Yes, Python and OCaml are excellent alternatives to Java. Both present an environment where the cost of playing around with the language is very low --- their interactive interpreters allow for casual experimentation. Java, on the other hand, requires explicit compilation, so it's just not much fun to play with. My apologies for focusing on OCaml so much on this post; I'm still a bit brainwashed after reading Mark Jason Dominus's page on: http://perl.plover.com/yak/typing/typing.html *grin* Good luck to you! ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:29:43 -0700 From: "Kirby Urner" <urnerk(a)qwest.net> Subject: RE: [Edu-sig] java To: "'Danny Yoo'" <dyoo(a)hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu> Cc: edu-sig(a)python.org, 'Gerrit Holl' <gerrit(a)nl.linux.org> Message-ID: <E1A9qOq-0001Zj-22(a)mail.python.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > I do have to disagree about clumping OCaml in with those other languages. OK, thanks for the experience-based details. I just grabbed it from someone else's list of static languages. I've not used OCaml myself (just read some docs at one point). > This length() function takes a list of any type, and knows that it'll > return an integer. Nothing here requires the programmer to explicitly > declare variable types -- it'll work on lists of strings just as well as > on lists of integers. > > (******) > # length ["hello"; "world"];; > - : int = 2 > # length [1;2;3;4;5];; > - : int = 5 > (******) Well, this would be a feature of C# as well, in that the System.Array type has its built-in Length field, like Python's __len__ method, where the Array may be of various types, or of mixed type if you say its an array of object references. Yes, you have to declare the array type, but it's the same myarray.Length invocation every time. Isn't Java like this too? > > And, like Python, OCaml's types will follow values, not names: > > (******) > # let age = "forty-two";; > val age : string = "forty-two" > # let age = 42;; > val age : int = 42 > (******) > > OCaml has a lot of the good features of a "dynamic" language, including a > interactive interpreter. And although its syntax is a little wacky, that > shouldn't be an excuse to aggregate it with the likes of Java. *grin* > > > > If I had to choose one over the other, I'd take Python over Java. > > Students would be more productive more quickly and it's easier to teach. > > Yes, Python and OCaml are excellent alternatives to Java. Both present an > environment where the cost of playing around with the language is very low > --- their interactive interpreters allow for casual experimentation. Java, > on the other hand, requires explicit compilation, so it's just not much > fun to play with. But Jython fixes that shortcoming. I think you've hit the nail on the head though: it's having an interactive interpreter that makes all the difference. Non-CS majors trying to be productive in their own disciplines should be given an interactive language to learn (Mathematica and Matlab also qualify, as does J). > My apologies for focusing on OCaml so much on this post; I'm still a bit > brainwashed after reading Mark Jason Dominus's page on: > > http://perl.plover.com/yak/typing/typing.html > > *grin* Again, I appreciate your detailed input. Kirby ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 14:44:54 -0400 From: "Jason Cunliffe" <jason.cunliffe(a)verizon.net> Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] java To: "Kirby Urner" <urnerk(a)qwest.net> Cc: edu-sig(a)python.org Message-ID: <001201c3934c$6cf810e0$6501a8c0@vaio> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > I think you've hit the nail on the head though: it's having an interactive > interpreter that makes all the difference. Non-CS majors trying to be > productive in their own disciplines should be given an interactive language > to learn (Mathematica and Matlab also qualify, as does J). Yes indeed.. Does anyone have a full list of interactive languages? - Jason ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 15:13:13 -0400 From: "Jason Cunliffe" <jason.cunliffe(a)verizon.net> Subject: [Edu-sig] interactive languages To: <edu-sig(a)python.org> Message-ID: <002801c39350$61b933e0$6501a8c0@vaio> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > Does anyone have a full list of interactive languages? hmm... I am underwhelmed by a quick Google for "interactive languages" -- slim pickings http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=interactive+langu ages&btnG=Google+Search At least I expected to find more obvious evidence of rich discussion on this. Yes, I barely skimmed the surface and *very* quickly, but such Google sessions that can meaningful indicators often. I find these weak search response quite interesting. If you look instead for "interpreted language" it's more like what you might expect http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&q=interpreted+language Interactive == Interpreted But that's not really the [default] point or is it? The other way around I accept.. Interpreted == Interactive - Jason ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:42:13 +0100 From: "Jaime E. Villate" <villate(a)gnu.org> Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] java To: edu-sig(a)python.org Message-ID: <20031015224213.GC564(a)fe.up.pt> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Wed, Oct 15, 2003 at 06:26:29PM +0200, Gerrit Holl wrote: > I am a physics student, and next year, I will be teached Java. > The same is true for (at least) Chemists and Elektrotechnicians. > I am at the University of Twente, and I know that the Vrije > Universititeit also teaches programming with Java. I'm not sure > whether the Universiteit van Amsterdam also uses Java to teach > physisians programming. In The Netherlands, there is not a big > difference between more and less important universities. I do not know Java very well, and even if I would not use it to teach my students here in Portugal, I do not think there is anything wrong with adopting it in a science course. The only problem I see with Java is that some Java features are not standard and will only work with SUN's proprietary versions; it is better to avoid using those non-standard features and write programs that can run with the free versions of Java. As a physicist, I've had to use several different programming languages during the last 25 years. Some years ago, Fortran used to be the preferred language in Physics, mainly because there was a large number of libraries already well tested; a lot of those libraries have now been ported to C++ or C. In some applications I had to use assembly language and in some other cases I've even become an expert in Postscript as a programming language :) I think that it is good to get exposed to different languages. That's why nowadays my choice for teaching would be Python, because it would allow me to cover procedural programming as well as object oriented programming and GUI applications without the overhead of a complicated syntax. Cheers, Jaime ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 19:01:47 -0500 From: Terry Hancock <hancock(a)anansispaceworks.com> Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] java To: edu-sig(a)python.org Message-ID: <m1A9vXa-007nJGC(a)mail.augustmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" On Wednesday 15 October 2003 01:29 pm, Kirby Urner wrote: > > Yes, Python and OCaml are excellent alternatives to Java. Both present an > > environment where the cost of playing around with the language is very low > > --- their interactive interpreters allow for casual experimentation. > But Jython fixes that shortcoming. Of course, Jython is Python, not Java from the programmer's POV, no matter that it is written and interpreted in Java. > I think you've hit the nail on the head though: it's having an interactive > interpreter that makes all the difference. Non-CS majors trying to be > productive in their own disciplines should be given an interactive language > to learn (Mathematica and Matlab also qualify, as does J). Absolutely -- I think this is the single strongest advantage of Python as far as ease of use goes: it's faster to experimentally verify behavior in the interpreter than it is to look it up in the manual. It's the only language I've used for which that is true (with the possible exception of the BASIC interpreters I started on some 20+ years ago). Add to that that Python is a full-fledged language with support for structured programming, object-oriented programming, and functional-programming models, and it's just a real breeze to get going in. I've also just used Python as a shell, tinkering with word games and so on -- such as "collecting the 400 most commonly used words of more than 3 characters appearing in selected project Gutenberg texts," which I did without formally creating a program, but just tinkering with objects in the interpreter. It's also pretty cool that Python is forgiving enough to let you do something like: words = open("jane_austens_collected_works.txt", 'r').read().split() uniq_words = {} for word in words: uniq_words[word] += 1 without choking your computer. ;-) (Yes this is an imperfect result -- I actually did a bit more than this when I did it -- I was compiling an "ignore" list for a mnemonic id generator, in which I wanted to throw out common words and preferentially keep the more unique words in a title). This tolerance of blunderingly inefficient (but conceptually obvious) approaches is also what made IDL nice in astronomical work. I haven't tried some of the other languages you mention, so I can't say that Python is better than them, but it's certainly a good place to start, and it does a lot of stuff well. I also have a very warm fuzzy feeling knowing that Python is both free and Free, and therefore I don't have to worry about losing it or being left behind so much. Cheers, Terry -- Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com ) Anansi Spaceworks http://www.anansispaceworks.com ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Edu-sig mailing list Edu-sig(a)python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig End of Edu-sig Digest, Vol 3, Issue 13 **************************************

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re: Python for homeschoolers
by Arthur Oct. 12, 2003

Oct. 12, 2003

Kirby writes - >My Python + Geometry class for Python homeschoolers is going OK. A Python + Geometry class not using PyGeo. Ouch. Advantages - Ability to draw (in 3d, betond Flatland) from the interactive prompt. Live, realtime interactivity. Fly-by, rotate, dynamically manipulate, etc. one's constructions. Maybe most importantly - stay *in* Python. No need to introduce Povray semantics to folks who are getting their first taste of programming in Python. Give them a break. And export to Povray directly from PyGeo if one wants a "picture". Don't get it. Truly. And would be happy to work with you on correcting this oversight for future classes. ;) Art

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Python for homeschoolers
by Kirby Urner Oct. 11, 2003

Oct. 11, 2003

My Python + Geometry class for Python homeschoolers is going OK. I'm at a ramshackle warehouse full of used computers being reassembled into "freekboxes" by volunteers (who get a freekbox for their services). The classroom consists of diskless workstations slaved to a server, usually to 'obsidian' (the server name) a debian stable, but alternatively to 'raka', a debian unstable. raka hosts includes Python2.3 as well as Povray 3.5 (yay!). I've learned that you need to start idle in an xterm with the -n switch if you want multiple users to share it (I have about 8 users). This was my second 1.5 hour class today. Last week focused on range() -- range(a), range(a,b), range(a,b,c) options -- and then we used the list output of that built-in to start investigating lists (indexing, slicing). Then we talked about the Pythagorean Theorem and Pythagorean triples, as up ahead we want to look at a program for generating said triples. This will require developing gcd(), because similar triangles don't count. Today we moved on the strings, tuples and dictionaries, using dir() and help() to get some clues about what these objects might do. I delivered this talk on objects, with methods and attributes, focusing on mydog.mood and mydog.bark() etc. Went back to lists to play with mylist.sort() and mylist.reverse() -- as examples of object.method() syntax in action. But the class started with hands-on play using StrangeAttractors (not yet on the market) and then looking at a PNG graphics file showing this very toy, generated from Povray. We pulled of the pov file and talked about the cylinder() command, the role of <x,y,z> coordinates. Other geometry was 'poly-gon' versus 'poly-hedron' (knees vs. faces for those of you into etymologies). These are middle-school aged kids, mostly boys, but one girl, and one middle aged woman (the mom of one of the boys). Getting the files uploaded took a fair amount of prep time. I'm shelling in using OpenSSH on cygwin (mostly), leapfrogging from one server to another within FreeGeek. sftp is cumbersome to use, and the connection gets dropped for no apparent reason. In sum (topics so far): range() naming objects e.g. mylist = range(10,0,-1) the list object triangles (as objects) Pythagorean Theorem (special attributes of right triangles) data structures: lists, dictionaries, tuples, strings object.attribute and object.method() syntax (mydog.bark(3)) coordinate geometry -- (x,y,z) tuples as named points in a dictionary polygons/polyhedra -- tuples of named points, pairs of point names as edges Platonic Polyhedra buckminsterfullerene (truncated icosahedron) and the allotropes of carbon Kirby

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GvR ready for prime time...
by Jeffrey Elkner Oct. 10, 2003

Oct. 10, 2003

I just finished using Guido van Robot (http://gvr.sf.net) with my intro classes this year, and it was a whole heap of fun! GvR is a "Pythonic" improvement of the teaching language Karel the Robot, and using it has once again renewed my appreciation for the Pythonic way of doing things. GvR was developed by my former students, Paul Carduner, Donald Oellerich, and Waseem Daher, under the guidance of Python programmer Steve Howell. It has matured to the point where it is robust enough for classroom use (it didn't crash once with 40 students using it for two weeks, and we discovered only one small display bug, which Paul has already fixed). And thanks to Roger Frank's excellent lessons (http://gvr.sourceforge.net/lessons/rfrank), it comes with teaching materials ready to use. It does not currently run under Windows (wxPython display issues), but we have plans to fix that this year. May others find as fun to use as I have! -- Jeffrey Elkner <jeff(a)elkner.net> Open Book Project <http://ibiblio.org/obp>

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Please add yourself to the wiki...
by Jeffrey Elkner Oct. 9, 2003

Oct. 9, 2003

Hi All, I've added a link to the wiki: http://linus.yorktown.arlington.k12.va.us/PyCon2004/EduTrack/FrontPage called "IllBeThere", intended for folks who think they will be coming to PyCon2004 and who are interested in a Python in Education Track. *Please* add yourself to this page, together with a brief description of your interests, if you are considering participating in the Edu track at the conference. I am hoping to get a sense of who is interested and what kinds of topics folks would like to see discussed. The conference could potentially be a great place for those of us using Python in education to learn from each other and to plan for ways to help further develop Python's use in education. Thanks! -- Jeffrey Elkner <jeff(a)elkner.net> Open Book Project <http://ibiblio.org/obp>

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Wanted: Head First Python author
by Guido van Rossum Oct. 8, 2003

Oct. 8, 2003

I brought the idea of Head First Python up with O'Reilly, and they're at least lukewarm. I think if the right author presented him/herself they might warm up to the idea a lot more. A few people here showed interest, but I intentionally didn't jot down their names (I have no time to head this particular effort myself and am trying to stay out of the loop). But if you think you could be the lead on the author team and can make a convincing case to O'Reilly, please write me and I'll introduce you to Jonathan Gennick. If you'd like to participate but not as a lead, please post here so others know about your interest. --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

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Fw: [Visualpython-users] VPython and LiveZope
by Arthur Oct. 6, 2003

Oct. 6, 2003

Thought this is worthwhile forwarding. The message to the visual-python list had a nice screenshot, which I removed, as the forwarding bounced with it attached. Art ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Sherwood" <basherwo(a)unity.ncsu.edu> To: "vpusers" <visualpython-users(a)lists.sourceforge.net> Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 8:24 AM Subject: [Visualpython-users] VPython and LiveZope > -------- Original Message -------- > > Subject: Re: Vpython in bootable linux cdrom > Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 23:35:34 +0800 > From: chu-ching huang <cchuang(a)mail.cgu.edu.tw> > To: Bruce Sherwood <basherwo(a)unity.ncsu.edu> > References: <000901c38720$258ebac0$a76819a3@math> > <3F79D3F9.9030104(a)unity.ncsu.edu> > > > Hi Bruce Sherwood, > > As attached, VPython example running under pythonIDE, boa-constructor, > in LiveZope-0.1. > > Best regards, > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > chu-ching huang > > email address:cchuang@mail.cgu.edu.tw > > ************************ > > I asked Chu-Ching Huang about what he had sent me, and here are his comments: > > On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 22:10:36 -0400, Bruce Sherwood wrote > > > Thanks much for showing this to me. Please explain the significance, > > > because I don't know what boa-constructor is, nor Zope, nor LiveZope, > > > nor Knoppix. As you can see, my ignorance is quite broad! > > Boa-constructor is a project supported by sourceforge. It is similar to IDLE > > but with more functionalities. > > Zope is open CMS, Content Management System, developed mainly by Python. > > It owns its http and ftp server abilites. > > Knoppix is live Linux CDROM. As booting from this CDROM, Linux is ready for > > users. LiveZope is Knoppix- based integration of Python resource, including > > Zope with its products, VPython, biopython etc. It is built for establishing > > Linux-based courses including Math, Phy and Med. > > > > Your development may be very important, because many people have wanted > > > to be able to run VPython programs in a browser. Is that what you > > > have achieved? Can this work in other browsers? > > I purpose to integrate the Vpython codes into Zope server but no achieved. > > It can only run on Xterm or IDE env. > > > > I only see one of the two graphics windows that gas.py produces. The > > > other is an animation of a gas of colliding hard spheres. Does your > > > environment not display the animation window? > > The animation is displayed but removed as catching picture by the program > > "ksnapshot". > > > > Is your work available to others? If so, I would be pleased to advertise > > > your work to the VPython community through its user mailing list. > > Yes, LiveZope is also released under GPL license. > > The previous LiveZope-0.1 can be downloaded from: > > http://sourceforge.net/projects/open-outcomes > > or > > ftp://ftp.texmacs.org/pub/TeXmacs/knoppix > > And the last LiveZope-0.1.2 can be downloaded from > > ftp://math.cgu.edu.tw/pub/KNOPPIX > > Best regards, > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > chu-ching huang > > email address:cchuang@mail.cgu.edu.tw <mailto:address:cchuang@mail.cgu.edu.tw> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----

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FW: Vpython and LiveZope
by Arthur Oct. 6, 2003

Oct. 6, 2003

Dethe writes: > And there is nothing like games to hold attention or motivate kids. Out of the box Knoppix - from which I am sending - has a menu category "edutainment". The mathematics submenu has one entry - "KGeo (Interactive Geometry)" - which might be the next best thing to you know what. Games themselves are a separate menu category. Knoppix is quite, quite nice. And there is a small logo on boot in the lower right of the screen. A "K" in a circle. Means it's kosher - where I come from. Now if I get a machine with two writeable CDs and train Knoppix to retrieve and burn Knoppix when it boots -do I effectively taken over the world? Or is there more to it than that. ;) Getting LiveZope - which I am anxious to see - is a problem. The transfer rate I am getting from the server on which it sits is no better than 5kb, and it bombs if I try to run it overnight. I will contact the author for suggestions. Art

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